Nuclear batteries

[Celephais]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8297934.stm

Tiny 'nuclear batteries' unveiled


http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/46519000/jpg/_46519035_nuclear-battery.jpg The team hopes to make nuclear batteries much smaller still

Researchers have demonstrated a penny-sized "nuclear battery" that produces energy from the decay of radioisotopes.

As radioactive substances decay, they release charged particles that when properly harvested can create an electrical current.

Nuclear batteries have been in use for military and aerospace applications, but are typically far larger.

The University of Missouri team says that the batteries hold a million times as much charge as standard batteries.

They have developed it in an attempt to scale down power sources for the tiny devices that fall under the category of micro- and nano-electromechanical systems (Mems and Nems).

The means to power such devices has been a subject of study as vigorous as the development of the devices themselves.

Liquid solution
Nuclear batteries are an attractive proposition for many applications because the isotopes that power them can provide a useful amount of current for phenomenally long times - up to hundreds of years or more.

As a result, they have seen use in spacecraft that are fired far off into the cosmos. But for applications here on Earth, their size has limited their use.
The Missouri team, led by Jae Wan Kwon, employed a liquid semiconductor to capture and utilise the decay particles.

Most nuclear batteries use a solid semiconductor to harvest the particles, but the particles' extremely high energies means that the semiconductors suffer damage over time.

This means that to build a battery that can last as long as the isotope inside, they must be built larger.

The team's solution incorporates a liquid semiconductor, in which the particles can pass without causing damage. They are now working to further miniaturise the batteries.

And although the whole idea hinges on the use of radioactive materials, the devices are safe under normal operating conditions.

"People hear the word 'nuclear' and think of something very dangerous," Dr Jae said.

"However, nuclear power sources have already been safely powering a variety of devices, such as pacemakers, space satellites and underwater systems."

____________
Well kick ass. Now make nuclear powered cars.

[Deathravin]

"However, nuclear power sources have already been safely powering a variety of devices, such as pacemakers, space satellites and underwater systems."

I first read those last two words as 'underwear systems'. fun fun.


The problem with nuclear cars, which they have been developing for a while now, is the crashes. Some of these highway crashes DECIMATE the car. I'd rather not be driving by a crash and glow for the next two weeks.

[BriarFox]

So awesome. This way when we all die from H1N1, the aliens will still find a nuclear-powered TV constantly playing Nascar reruns.

[Revalos]

The problem with nuclear cars, which they have been developing for a while now, is the crashes. Some of these highway crashes DECIMATE the car. I'd rather not be driving by a crash and glow for the next two weeks.

If they could design a black box-like device that held the nuclear materials without breaking the inner container, you'd reduce the likelihood of that happening. One design actually used a reverse airbag approach where the nuclear material container is jettisoned in the event of a crash like an ejection seat deploying automatically. It would fire about 20 feet straight up and parachute back down. Kind of silly, but they are trying to figure it out.

I'm still shocked we don't have nuclear freight trains. Put the reactor in the center of the train and it'd be pretty damn safe from hits on either end. Use the same shielding that a nuclear sub has.

[Deathravin]

I'm still shocked we don't have nuclear freight trains. Put the reactor in the center of the train and it'd be pretty damn safe from hits on either end. Use the same shielding that a nuclear sub has.

Another issue is letting everyday people purchase radioactive material. I'm not suggesting one could make a nuclear bomb, but certainly a dirty bomb.

The thought of giving easy access to radioactive materials to the public just doesn't sit well with me.

[Celephais]

It's kinda weird that you quoted his comment about freight trains to say that.

"How does this automobile compare to say, a train, which I could also afford."
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v53/jackhunter64/homer.jpg

[Androidpk]

Because everyone knows trains never crash. Duh.

[Deathravin]

It's kinda weird that you quoted his comment about freight trains to say that.

"How does this automobile compare to say, a train, which I could also afford."

There are a lot of things in this world that people can't afford, but steal just fine.

Granted, stealing the whole locomotive may be tough, but there would be some way to get at the nuclear material for maintenance purposes, so it's feasible that it would be stolen.

How well guarded are train depots anyway? guarded enough that a well organized terror cell couldn't get in and get what they want?

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Another issue is letting everyday people purchase radioactive material. I'm not suggesting one could make a nuclear bomb, but certainly a dirty bomb.

The thought of giving easy access to radioactive materials to the public just doesn't sit well with me.

I totally dropped a dirty bomb this morning.

Have you ever had SPAM? There's this off brand called Treat I think that is like SPAM but I actually like the taste for some reason... every now and then I'll get some and shake it out of the can, carving off slices like it's a piece of fruit and slapping it onto this parmesan bread that a local bakery makes here. Totally not something I'd have friends over for but man I really like it. Sometimes I just want something totally unhealthy I guess.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

PS, the gold dime in the OP irks me.

[Androidpk]

I bet the military is going to be all over this for their land warrior system.

[Celephais]

There are a lot of things in this world that people can't afford, but steal just fine.
The quote was just because I rather liked that episode of the simpsons.


Granted, stealing the whole locomotive may be tough, but there would be some way to get at the nuclear material for maintenance purposes, so it's feasible that it would be stolen.

How well guarded are train depots anyway? guarded enough that a well organized terror cell couldn't get in and get what they want?
Something tells me that the nuclear trains wouldn't be sitting out in some random trainyard. I don't think it'd be any order of magnitude easier to steal radioactive material from a train that it would be from a nuclear plant (especially their waste material), that and I don't think the train would be using anywhere near the quantity of a plant.

Granted I think the whole train idea is dumb anyway because it'd make more sense to me to have electric trains and have a nuclear plant provide the power.

That 24 shit doesn't happen, why would they go through that kind of trouble to get ahold of a small amount of nuclear product that *may* contaminate an area, when the process of doing so would put security on high alert at valuable targets, when instead they could just get a bunch of fertilizer and get the bomb on target... now if any given watch had a nuclear battery you may have a justifiable arguement but... the terrorists win if we don't wear nuclear watches, the terrorists win.

[Stanley Burrell]

All I thought of was fission batteries from Fallout 3. Edit: They weigh like ten pounds though.

Why is that dime Chinese?

[Stanley Burrell]

Another issue is letting everyday people purchase radioactive material. I'm not suggesting one could make a nuclear bomb, but certainly a dirty bomb.

The thought of giving easy access to radioactive materials to the public just doesn't sit well with me.

You uh, ever buy a smoke detector?

Although it doesn't specifically say which isotopes are involved, I seriously doubt something handheld is going to be a strong gamma or β emitter.

You could probably do more damage detonating a bunch of car batteries vs. (e.g.) dynamiting a bunch of civilian-purchasable strong β phosphorous dyes.

Whatever. If someone uses their mad alchemy lorez to turn Co60 into U235 they deserve to blow up whatever shit they want to.

[AMUSED1]

All I can say is that I want a nuclear mouse battery for wireless mice!

[Methais]

PS, the gold dime in the OP irks me.

Pretty sure it's just the light reflecting off it. Unless the article which I didn't read mentions it being gold.

ON TOPIC: WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111

[ElvenFury]

http://www.funbumperstickers.com/images/Blinky.gif

[radamanthys]

You uh, ever buy a smoke detector?

Although it doesn't specifically say which isotopes are involved, I seriously doubt something handheld is going to be a strong gamma or β emitter.

You could probably do more damage detonating a bunch of car batteries vs. (e.g.) dynamiting a bunch of civilian-purchasable strong β phosphorous dyes.

Whatever. If someone uses their mad alchemy lorez to turn Co60 into U235 they deserve to blow up whatever shit they want to.

It's Thorium in the smoke detectors, I think.

Some guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hahn) tried collecting smoke detectors for their radioactive Thorium. This is what he accomplished:

http://www.foxnews.com/images/303168/0_61_080407_David_Hahn.jpg


And I don't think it's really that easy to just collect and 'splode radioactive material into a dirty bomb.

[ZeP]

It's Thorium in the smoke detectors, I think.

Some guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hahn) tried collecting smoke detectors for their radioactive Thorium. This is what he accomplished:

http://www.foxnews.com/images/303168/0_61_080407_David_Hahn.jpg



How can this guy be a repeat offender? Hey, you only alarmed the FBI, EPA, and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.

[Stanley Burrell]

Some guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hahn)http://www.foxnews.com/images/303168/0_61_080407_David_Hahn.jpg

I can't decide whether that picture would be even more entertaining if he had actually completed building a home-grown nuclear reactor.

And remember:

http://usera.imagecave.com/SwordOfJustice_2007/Rad_Away_small.jpg

[Clove]

I'm still shocked we don't have nuclear freight trains. Put the reactor in the center of the train and it'd be pretty damn safe from hits on either end. Use the same shielding that a nuclear sub has.Well we could share the nuclear sub reactor shield designs with the train manufacturers... but then we'd have to kill 'em :D

[Atlanteax]

To a degree, I'm concerned about the possibility of "nuclear batteries" being "too successful" to the extent that most people, being naturally lazy & careless, will just dump their "nuclear batteries" in their garbage or somewhere off a highway.

I mean, we already have islands out in the pacific that are mostly composed of plastic waste...

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

That's probably a good thing since we have global warming and the oceans are rising...

[Sean of the Thread]

Shit does this mean there will be tons of radioactive vagina walking around?

[Sean of the Thread]

It's Thorium in the smoke detectors, I think.

Some guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hahn) tried collecting smoke detectors for their radioactive Thorium. This is what he accomplished:




And I don't think it's really that easy to just collect and 'splode radioactive material into a dirty bomb.


such as americium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americium) from smoke detectors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_detector), thorium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium) from camping lantern mantles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_mantle), radium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radium) from clocks and tritium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritium) (as neutron moderator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_moderator)) from gunsights

[landy]

To a degree, I'm concerned about the possibility of "nuclear batteries" being "too successful" to the extent that most people, being naturally lazy & careless, will just dump their "nuclear batteries" in their garbage or somewhere off a highway.

I mean, we already have islands out in the pacific that are mostly composed of plastic waste...

This argument isn't the best for not wanting nuclear batteries available to consumers. If these batteries could last nearly as long as they are predicting they will, it would cut down an enormous amount of waste in the form of standard batteries being used and tossed each year. I really think that consumer electronics being sold with one of these nuclear batteries imbedded in the device would slash a huge amount of waste produced.

[Sean of the Thread]

I've had the same set of double A rechargeable batteries for about 3 years now if counts for anything.

Some are defiantly better than the others but they all still work and I rotate them. (mostly for my energy ozone killing kodak camera).

[Atlanteax]

To a degree, I'm concerned about the possibility of "nuclear batteries" being "too successful" to the extent that most people, being naturally lazy & careless, will just dump their "nuclear batteries" in their garbage or somewhere off a highway.

I mean, we already have islands out in the pacific that are mostly composed of plastic waste...


This argument isn't the best for not wanting nuclear batteries available to consumers. If these batteries could last nearly as long as they are predicting they will, it would cut down an enormous amount of waste in the form of standard batteries being used and tossed each year. I really think that consumer electronics being sold with one of these nuclear batteries imbedded in the device would slash a huge amount of waste produced.

What makes you confident that people will transfer the "nuclear batteries" from gadget to gadget? Ideally it would cut down on the standard batteries as you have mentioned, but as we have often seen, people do not really follow though on ideal intentions.

I'd say best-case scenario is making these batteries cost $1000, but with say a 10 year lifetime, and a $500 "refund" when you return your existing expired battery when obtaining a new one. Presumably, the sizable $$ investment will deter people from disposing them casually. (just throwing out $$$ figures, but the point is to not be easily affordable)

I've always thought they should just make recyclable cans/bottle be a $1 refund instead of 5-20 cents, to ensure people recycle them.

[landy]

I've had the same set of double A rechargeable batteries for about 3 years now if counts for anything.

Some are defiantly better than the others but they all still work and I rotate them. (mostly for my energy ozone killing kodak camera).

I wasn't really speaking about the rechargeable batteries, although that is a good point. I only meant the disposable kind which makes up for the vast majority of battery usage.