Advice on a new desktop?

[BriarFox]

I'm debating between buying a premade desktop and building my own, and I wonder if anyone has some advice or input.

I'm not looking to spend a huge amount, but I would like a desktop that will last five or so years, and in my experience, that means I need something fairly powerful by current standards. Still, I'd like to spend about $500 or less. I don't do any graphics gaming or such, but I do run Adobe CS3.

I was looking at a few different premade models:

Gateway SX2800-01 - These are the specs (no monitor):

MSRP: $499.00

Processor Intel® Core™2 Quad Processor3 Q8200 (2.33GHz, 1333MHz FSB, 4MB L2 cache)
Operating System Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium (64-bit) with SP1
Memory 4096MB 800MHz DDR3 Memory (2 x 2048MB Modules)9
Hard Drive 640GB 7200RPM SATA hard drive5
Chassis Modern and Sophisticated Small Form Factor Design
Video Integrated Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator X4500
Application Software Microsoft® Works 9.0, Microsoft® Money Essentials & Microsoft® Office Home and Student 2007 (60-day complimentary trial period)4
Audio 6-Channel (5.1) High-Definition Audio (supports up to 7.1)
Available Expansion Slots Available: 1 - PCI-E x16, 0 - PCI-E x1
Digital Media Software Cyberlink® Power2 Go™ & Cyberlink® LabelPrint™ featuring LabelFlash™8
Dimensions (Box) 14" (H) x 7" (W) x 20" (L) or 355.6mm (H) x 177.8mm (W) x 508mm (L)
Dimensions (System) 10.7" (H) x 4.2" (W) x 13" (L) or 271.8mm (H) x 106.68mm (W) x 330.2mm (L)
External Ports (9) USB 2.0 ports (5 Front, 4 Rear), (2) PS/2 Ports, Photo Frame Button, VGA, HDMI (Rear), IEEE 1394a, eSATA, Optical S/PDIF
Keyboard Premium Multimedia Keyboard
Media Card Reader Multi-in-One Digital Media Card Reader6
Memory Capacity Expandable to 8GB
Modem 56K ITU V.92 ready Fax/Modem (RJ-11 port)
Motherboard Systemboard with Intel® G43 Chipset + ICH10
Mouse USB optical 3-Button Wheel Mouse
Network 10/100/1000 Gigabit Ethernet LAN (RJ-45 port)
Optical Drive 18X DVD+/-R/RW Super Multi-Format Dual Layer Drive featuring Labelflash™ Technology8
Power Supply 220W Power Supply
Security Software Norton™ Internet Security 2009 (60-day trial)7
Speakers Amplified Stereo Speakers (USB Powered)
Warranty 1 Year Parts and Labor Limited Warranty with Toll-Free Tech Support10
Weight 12 lbs. (5.4 kg) system unit only / Approximately 19 lbs. (8.6 kg.) box


Or perhaps the Gateway DX4820-03:

MSRP: $649.00

Processor Intel® Core™2 Quad Processor3 Q8300 (2.5GHz, 4MB L2 Cache)9
Operating System Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium (64-bit) with SP1
Memory 8GB DDR3 SDRAM Memory10
Hard Drive 1TB SATA hard drive5
Chassis Designed for power and productivity, sleek and stylish mini-tower PC
Video Integrated Intel® GMA X4500 Graphics10
Application Software Microsoft® Works 9.0, Microsoft® Money Essentials & Microsoft® Office Home and Student 2007 (60-day complimentary trial period)4
Audio High Definition Audio with 7.1 Audio Support
Available Expansion Slots Available: 1 - PCI-E x16, 1 - PCI-E x1, 1 - PCI v2.3 (5V)
Digital Media Software Cyberlink® Power2 Go™ & Cyberlink® LabelPrint supporting LabelFlash™8
Dimensions (Box) 11.2" (H) x 17.7" (W) x 22.1" (D) or 284.48mm (H) x 449.58mm (W) x 561.34mm (D)
Dimensions (System) 16.3" (H) x 7.1" (W) x 17.3" (D) or 414.02mm (H) x 180.34mm (W) x 439.42mm (D)
External Ports (8) USB 2.0 ports (4 Front, 4 Rear), IEEE 1394a, VGA, (2) PS/2 Ports, HDMI™
Keyboard Premium Gateway Keyboard
Media Card Reader Multi-in-One Digital Media Card Reader with Photo Frame Button6
Memory Capacity Maximum 8GB
Modem 56K ITU V.92 ready Fax/Modem (RJ-11 port)
Motherboard Systemboard with Intel® G43 Express Chipset
Mouse USB Optical Mouse
Network 10/100/1000 Gigabit Ethernet LAN (RJ-45 port)
Optical Drive 18X DVD+/-R/RW Super Multi-Format Dual Layer Drive featuring Labelflash™ Technology8
Power Supply 300W Power Supply
Security Software Norton™ Internet Security 2009 (60-day trial)
Speakers Amplified Stereo Speakers (USB Powered)
Warranty 1 Year Parts and Labor Limited Warranty with Toll-Free Tech Support11
Weight 25 lbs. (11.3 kg) system unit only / Approximately 35 lbs. (15.9 kg.) box

Any thoughts on these specs? Or could I get more bang for my buck just building one? I also want to pick up a 17-19" LCD monitor, but I may just try Craigslist for that.

[Monsoon]

You can't build a 5-year system for $500 without tremendous luck and fortune.

I say build it yourself, but you probably wouldn't save any money if you have to start from scratch. Prebuilt companies take advantage of volume discounts.

[BriarFox]

Hrm. Well, let's say 3 years, then. That should be more reasonable. I've had good luck with desktops so far. My last one was one my brother built from stuff he bought off eBay and it lasted about seven years until the hardware failed.

[Monsoon]

What's your priority? What do you want to be future-proof? CPU or GPU?

[Monsoon]

Wait, when you say you want it to last, you mean until the hardware fails? Not its ability to keep up with future requirements?

[Danical]

Gaming Guide: http://arstechnica.com/hardware/news/2009/07/gaming-guide.ars

General System Guide: http://arstechnica.com/hardware/guides/2009/04/ars-technica-system-guide-april-2009-edition.ars

I :heart: ArsTechnica

[BriarFox]

What's your priority? What do you want to be future-proof? CPU or GPU?

CPU. I'm not planning to keep up with graphics games. I haven't even played one since Neverwinter Nights.


Wait, when you say you want it to last, you mean until the hardware fails? Not its ability to keep up with future requirements?

Something of both - I'd like it to be able to keep up with software for at least a few years. Say, something like CS5, if Adobe's going to come out with that (though what it's requirements are going it be are kind of hard to predict).

And thanks, Gnimble. I'll check out the links.

[Monsoon]

If you do zero graphical gaming, you'll save big money on graphics. You could build a system around an mATX board with integrated video, or go ATX with a really cheap video card.

Do you have any parts you can use for a new build? Case?

Photoshop loves memory. CPU is important, so I recommend a quad-core, especially as more and more developers are coding to utilize multicore chips. But you'll want at minimum 4GB of memory, so you'll want to go with a 64-bit OS. Windows 7 is really good. If you build an i7 system, it's going to be pretty steep. AMD's new Deneb offerings are very good. Memory at those speeds is pretty damn expensive still.

Still hindered by the $500 budget. That might only cover CPU and memory. List whatever components you already have.

[BriarFox]

If you do zero graphical gaming, you'll save big money on graphics. You could build a system around an mATX board with integrated video, or go ATX with a really cheap video card.

Do you have any parts you can use for a new build? Case?

Photoshop loves memory. CPU is important, so I recommend a quad-core, especially as more and more developers are coding to utilize multicore chips. But you'll want at minimum 4GB of memory, so you'll want to go with a 64-bit OS. Windows 7 is really good. If you build an i7 system, it's going to be pretty steep. AMD's new Deneb offerings are very good. Memory at those speeds is pretty damn expensive still.

Still hindered by the $500 budget. That might only cover CPU and memory. List whatever components you already have.

I have the whole old tower from my last desktop, though the RAM and hard drive are crap now (which is a tad really irrelevant). It had a 1.25 PIII, and what was once a top-of-line Radeon (though I'd have to take it apart to check the model - it crashes on boot now). I might be able to reuse the case, power supply and such. The MB is an older ASUS, but it does have a few free expansion slots.

[Monsoon]

I wouldn't reuse the power supply. It's the most important component in a computer, and after seven years its power output and overall capacitor quality is nothing like it was when it was new. Never skimp on the power supply. Healthy power = healthy components.

The PIII hardware is too old to upgrade. You need to start over with a newer platform.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.271912

[BriarFox]

I wouldn't reuse the power supply. It's the most important component in a computer, and after seven years its power output and overall capacitor quality is nothing like it was when it was new. Never skimp on the power supply. Healthy power = healthy components.

The PIII hardware is too old to upgrade. You need to start over with a newer platform.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.271912

The AMD Phenom II X4 940 Deneb 3.0GHz quad core sounds great. I imagine it'd have a significant boost over the Intel Core 2 in the DX model above. Hrm.

[AnticorRifling]

Just make sure it has a 5.25 floppy drive. That let's people know you're hardcore.

[Monsoon]

You'd have to find good reviews. But I've read that their performance is quite stellar given the price points. Trouble is that you've already burned half your budget, and you still need memory and other components.

But since you don't need a beefy video card, your system doesn't need much power. You should get a top-notch 400-500W PSU. I like Corsair PSUs. They have a 400CX, or a 450VX. The 520HX is overkill, plus it's modular.

[BriarFox]

You'd have to find good reviews. But I've read that their performance is quite stellar given the price points. Trouble is that you've already burned half your budget, and you still need memory and other components.

But since you don't need a beefy video card, your system doesn't need much power. You should get a top-notch 400-500W PSU. I like Corsair PSUs. They have a 400CX, or a 450VX. The 520HX is overkill, plus it's modular.

I suppose the ideal would be 8gbs of RAM. I wonder if I could just get a motherboard with reasonable integrated audio and video. Or perhaps the old Radeon card I've got would work for video.

[Monsoon]

Your old card isn't compatible. I'm assuming it's AGP. Not many, if any, AGP boards are made anymore. You'd have to check eBay or Craigslist.

[Monsoon]

Sites to check:
www.newegg.com
www.zipzoomfly.com
www.amazon.com
www.frys.com
www.performance-pcs.com (pretty expensive)
www.directron.com
www.ewiz.com

[BriarFox]

Sites to check:
www.newegg.com
www.zipzoomfly.com
www.amazon.com
www.frys.com
www.performance-pcs.com (pretty expensive)
www.directron.com
www.ewiz.com

Thanks, Monsoon. I'll price some stuff out and see what it would cost to put together a decent one from scratch. I have a feeling I'll fall back to the DX, though. $650 for its specs is hard to beat, but from what you're saying, perhaps I should buy it and then put in a better power supply or such. It's a 300w.

[Celephais]

Creative Suite 4+ take advantage of the graphics card for GPGPU computing, so a solid graphics card will be useful other than just for games. Obviously you won't need top of the line, just something to consider, don't go with integrated graphics, it's worth the $50 to go discrete.

[Monsoon]

A cheap 300W PSU probably doesn't output 300W, especially if it's highly inefficient. When you build yourself, you know the components you get are of decent or better quality. Prebuilt machines come with often proprietary parts, and you know they skimp as much as they can to increase their margins.

When you buy prebuilt, you at least get technical support, so that's something to consider if you aren't so technically inclined.

[Geijon Khyree]

1. MOBO and processor are going to run about 200, on the cheap. I recommend spending 300 on the combined pair. In the long run it's money well spent.

2. Power Supply. With the way things are going and I realize you're not looking to run anything very high you should be able to find a power supply for 60. You may want to look longterm and buy one with proper pins for current graphic cards and go 600+ watts. This is really optional though.

3. Graphic card. You can probably ebay a used one. 60 bucks or buy one for 120.

4. Case. You are reusing one it sounds. Be *SURE* you get the right motherboard type for your case. They aren't one size fits all.

5. Memory. Don't buy Korean if you don't gotta.

6. Operating System. I assume you are going to use your old XP key? Be sure to get 1 GB of ram of course if this applies. 2 GB if you are on Vista, but even a low end machine can easily handle 4 GBs of DDR2 or DDR3 for a reasonable price. CS3 is no joke though so don't short yourself on RAM.

7. Optical Drives. They run about 125 with a burner and 70 for a standard reader.

So when you total all this up. 300, 100, 100, 150 for memory, 100 rounded for optical drives. $750 and you aren't going for a high end system. Building your own rig only works when you recycle a ton of stuff, buy it off ebay for cheap and fix it, or go real ghetto on a low end CPU parts. Otherwise you only truly save on gaming rigs that retail at 1200+ because you can build a $3000 retail unit for 900-1100 bucks. This particular build just isn't in any sweet spot and profit margins on Dells are so cheap that the $650 PC is the best buy.

You can build a low end PC for 200 on the MOBO/processor, 60 on the power supply, about 80 on RAM, reuse your case, get a basic 50 dollar optical drive/reader, and buy a low-end ebay video card for 50 and you are looking at about a 450$ basic build. Honestly, you could probably get spare parts just by asking on the boards. People usually have extra graphic cards, power supplies, and ram so you could potentially build this for $250 if you find the right people.

I have heard people buy old units off Ebay for 90 bucks and fix the memory, reimage or replace the hard drive and you get away with a P3 rebuild for 150$

In closing though, buy the 650$ dell.

[Monsoon]

Some bad advice in there, Geijon. He doesn't game. I bought a $30 video card for my WHS build. No need to get anything better. He doesn't need anywhere near 600W unless he think he might turn the system into a gaming system.

He doesn't need to spend $300 on the CPU and mobo. I linked him to one that's $230.

He needs to go x64. I suggest Windows 7.

[Geijon Khyree]

Yeah. I wasn't done. :)

I am planning on building a new rig with Windows 7 because I'm pretty excited for it's architecture, but my so called old rig destroys most peoples gaming rigs and in this recession I am starting to fudge on it simply because it seems overly lavish to build another top of the line unit when I have one.

[BriarFox]

Thanks, guys. I am thinking about Windows 7. If I wait a couple of weeks to buy the Gateway DX (the $650 one), then it'll probably come loaded with it, which'll be useful. I called to check at BestBuy and such and they currently have zero desktops for sale just because they're waiting for W7 to come out on the 25th or whatnot.

Would it be worth buying the DX, then upgrading the graphics card and the power supply just to get CS4 to run better off the GPU, do you think?

[Monsoon]

Price out a system you'd build yourself and compare prices. Go to Newegg and put together a system with similar specs. The nice thing about Newegg is no sales tax for most states.

[BriarFox]

Price out a system you'd build yourself and compare prices. Go to Newegg and put together a system with similar specs. The nice thing about Newegg is no sales tax for most states.

The short answer is that it's cheaper to buy the Gateway DX. However, Newegg does have a nice power supply for $90:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005

[Monsoon]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139008

[Monsoon]

The short answer is that it's cheaper to buy the Gateway DX. However, Newegg does have a nice power supply for $90:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005
You don't need 650W. Your system will idle at maybe 150W, if that.

I have my main rig, my WHS box, and a 25.5" display connected to the battery backup outlets on my UPS. The total wattage for all three at idle is about 300W. Without my WHS box, it's about 150W. I have a GTX 260 and an E8400 at 3.6GHz.

[AnticorRifling]

For what it's worth I bought my desktop from cyberpowerpc.com and I've had zero complaints.

[Monsoon]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cyberpowerfucked

[Monsoon]

You have to up your budget. I just added CPU, mobo, memory, PSU, and a hard drive and I'm at $530. Still need a case and an optical drive.

[Celephais]

Opticals are about $30 and he said he's re-using a case I thought.

He should easily be able to get away with a budget of:
$70 PSU
$150 MB/CPU combo
$50 GPU
$30 Optical
$100 RAM
$80 HDD

At the low end of the spectrum I don't suggest building, especially if you're not comfortable with it. You could probably squeeze something out better, but the time and with being unfamiliar it's not worth the aggrevation.

[Monsoon]

The case has to support mATX or ATX. It might be too old of a case to support modern architecture.

[Monsoon]

$100 for 8GB of at least DDR2-800? What, Mushkin? :p

[Celephais]

I was thinking 4GB, but for $150 he's up to 8. As far as brand of memory goes, it doesn't really matter if he's not overclocking. Within the $500 budget he can build a better/comperable computer than the first posted dell, expanded to $650 he can best the second one. Either way though, I don't think the less than $100 he'd save is worth the trouble of not just getting a pre-built.

What kind of work are you doing in CS? You may consider getting a tablet if you think having a drawable surface would benefit you. You would obviously have to expand your budget, but something to consider.

[Monsoon]

Overclocking isn't the only factor. The memory has to be compatible and of the right voltage.

If you can't budge on your budget, you'll have to go prebuilt. It'll cost $700-750 to build it yourself. Make sure the prebuilt comes with a free upgrade to Windows 7, although I'm not sure if 64-bit qualifies.

[LMingrone]

Just have to search.
I was going to build a new computer. Instead I found a prebuilt.. came with a 20" widescreen LCD, photo quality printer/scanner, a nice subwoofer/speakers, 12 MP camera, wireless router, video in/out, a ton of software, and a bunch of basic accessories. $500.

I don't do PC gaming, and have another comp for graphic work, so I didn't need a crazy video card. Saved some there.

[AnticorRifling]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cyberpowerfucked Like I said I've had no problems at all with mine. I would challenge someone to find me a product that has 100% Q/C and never has had a piece perform optimally in the field...doesn't exist.

[Monsoon]

Heh, I know. I've just read horror stories. My only prebuilt system was in 2002. Have built my own ever since.

[AnticorRifling]

I wasn't in the mood to build one this time around. I just pieced it out, had a buddy tell me they did right by him so I gave them a try. Haven't had a problem. I will build my next one, probably with a case I build myself (I'm thinking either wood or some thing with the carbon fiber my brother has in his garage.

[Celephais]

I wasn't in the mood to build one this time around. I just pieced it out, had a buddy tell me they did right by him so I gave them a try. Haven't had a problem. I will build my next one, probably with a case I build myself (I'm thinking either wood or some thing with the carbon fiber my brother has in his garage.
I hate paying for cases, and love the idea of building my own.. I am looking into making a wooden one for my next build. My current machine I used a clear acrylic case, I was going to build it myself but priced out the plexiglass and it was cheaper to just buy an acrylic case.

Making a carbon fiber one would be pretty badass. Make sure you post pics if you do it.

[AnticorRifling]

I hate paying for cases, and love the idea of building my own.. I am looking into making a wooden one for my next build. My current machine I used a clear acrylic case, I was going to build it myself but priced out the plexiglass and it was cheaper to just buy an acrylic case.

Making a carbon fiber one would be pretty badass. Make sure you post pics if you do it.

I will, I'm just hoping back when he was retarded he didn't fence the carbon fiber for blow......

[BriarFox]

I was thinking 4GB, but for $150 he's up to 8. As far as brand of memory goes, it doesn't really matter if he's not overclocking. Within the $500 budget he can build a better/comperable computer than the first posted dell, expanded to $650 he can best the second one. Either way though, I don't think the less than $100 he'd save is worth the trouble of not just getting a pre-built.

What kind of work are you doing in CS? You may consider getting a tablet if you think having a drawable surface would benefit you. You would obviously have to expand your budget, but something to consider.

You're pretty much echoing my thoughts there. I'm not averse to building one, but I'm not sure how to make sure everything's compatible. Or is it pretty much all interchangeable these days?

And the old case is probably going to go - it doesn't have any front USB ports, which annoys the crap out of me (and makes it not fit most MBs).

[Monsoon]

Pretty straightfoward. Main thing to look for is the right type of memory for the memory slots. DDR1 won't fit in DDR2 slots. DDR2 wont' fit in DDR3 slots.

Most boards still come with IDE slots, but I recommend SATA. I've been IDE-free for several years and it's awesome.

[Sean of the Thread]

My roommate is looking at this and planning on swapping in a different graphics card.

Dominate in multimedia with the powerful Acer 20" LCD Quad Core, 8GB RAM, 750GB HDD Slim Desktop Computer. The 4 complete execution cores within a single processor provide high-performance computing; changing the way and speed at which you do everything. The vast 750GB provides immense storage for your favorite music, movies, videos and more. Plus, it's slimming design is so impressive, it'll keep you smiling every time you see it.

Acer 20" LCD Quad Core, 8GB RAM, 750GB HDD Slim Desktop Computer Features:

8GB RAM - get digital editing, serious gaming and other intensive applications functioning at light speed
802.11b/g - enjoy wireless connectivity
10/100/1000 Ethernet - connect to the Internet and devices faster than ever thanks to more bandwidth and full-duplex capacity
20" LCD - huge monitor enhances your visual experience
Labelflash technology - provides the ability to burn images directly onto a disc; allows consumers to personalize and customize their DVDs with photos, text and graphics Key Specifications:

Processor: Intel Core 2 Quad Processor 9400
Memory: 8GB DDR3 (4 x 2048MB); 4 DDR3 slots (total)|2 DDR3 slots (available)
Hard Drive: 750GB 7200RPM SATA
Optical Drive: SuperMulti Double Layer drive featuring Labelflash Technology. Write max: 18X DVD+/-R, 6XDVD-RW, 8X DVD+RW, 8X DVD+/-R DL, 12X DVD-RAM, 48X CD-R, 32 CD-RW. Read max: 16x DVD-ROM, 48x CD-ROM.
Operating System: Windows Vista Home Premium 64-bit Edition with Service Pack 1
Monitor: 20" Widescreen LCD Display (X203H bd); 16:9 aspect ratio; 1600 x 900 resolution; VGA and DVI inputs
Media Card Reader: Multi-in-1 Digital Media Card Reader - CompactFlash (Type I and II), CF+ Microdrive, MultiMediaCard (MMC), Reduced-Size MultiMediaCard (RS-MMC), Secure Digital (SD) Card, xD-Picture Card, Memory Stick, Memory Stick PRO Additional Product Specifications:

System Bus: 2.66GHz
Cache Memory: 6MB of L2
Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GT230 Graphics
Video Memory: 1.5GB discrete
Keyboard/Mouse: Acer USB keyboard and Acer USB optical mouse
Sound System: High-Definition Audio with 7.1-channel audio support; 2 amplified stereo speakers (USB powered); (6) Audio jacks, (1) HD headphone jack, (1) HD microphone jack
External Ports: (8) USB 2.0 (4 front, 4 rear), (1) HDMI, (1) VGA port, (1) IEEE 1394 (FireWire), (1) Ethernet (RJ-45), (1) PS/2 keyboard and mouse
Network Adapter: 10/100/1000 Gigabit Ethernet LAN (RJ-45 port)
Wireless Network Adapter: 802.11b/g
Battery/Power Supply: 450 Watt
Measures approx. 18"L x 7"W x 14.5"H
Weighs 25 lbs.
Model #: AM5800-U5802A
UL listed
Made in China
Comes with a manufacturer's 1-year limited warranty Accessories Include:

20" widescreen LCD monitor
USB keyboard
USB optical mouse
Antenna for the internal wireless card
Telephone line
2 speakers
3 PC Essential 17 software DVDs (not pre-installed) Software Included:

MS Works
MS Office Home Student and Student 2007 (60-day trial period)
Acer Arcade Live
eSobi
Adobe Reader
NTI Media Maker
Acer eRecovery Management
Acer eDataSecurity Management
McAfee Internet Security Suite 2008 (60-day trial period) PC Essentials 17 Software:

DVD 1: Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2008
DVD 2: Aquazone Desktop Garden, Hoyle Puzzle and Board Games 2008, Hoyle Casino Games 2008, Hoyle Card Games, Corel PaintShop Pro Photo X2, Serif Web Plus X2, Digital Scrapbook Artist, Hallmark Card Studio
DVD 3: World Book DVD Encyclopedia 2009, ACT! 2009, Budget Express 3.0, Cook'n with Betty Crocker, Family Tree Heritage 7, Peachtree First Accounting 2009, RoboForm Password Manager and Form Filler, Quicken Willmaker Plus 2009, Stuffit Deluxe 12, Sunbird Calendar, Thunderbird Email, Turbo Backup 7.2, WebRoot SpySweeper 6.0 (with 1-year subscription), Turbo FloorPlan Home Designer, Turbo FloorPlan Landscape and Deck, Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing 20 Deluxe

[BriarFox]

I had an Acer desktop once that was a POS. Those specs look all right, but I'm still leery. What's the price on it?

[Monsoon]

From today's Reseller Ratings email:



-----------------------------------------------------
Gateway DX4200-09 Quad-Core Desktop ($340 Shipped)
-----------------------------------------------------
(Posted: 10/8/09 3:00 PM, Expires: 10/10/09 11:00 PM)

Renewed! JR.com is again offering the Gateway DX4200-09 Desktop Computer for a low $339.99 shipped. Specs include the AMD Phenom X4 9100e quad-core processor, 4GB memory, 640GB hard drive, DVD burner, media card reader, ATI Radeon HD 3200 graphics, Gigabit LAN, FireWire, keyboard, mouse, speakers, Windows Vista Home Premium 64-bit, one-year warranty, and more.


Get this deal and discuss:
http://www.resellerratings.com/forum/t145631.html



-----------------------------------------------------
Gateway SX2800-03 C2Q 4GB Desktop ($430 Shipped)
-----------------------------------------------------
(Posted: 10/8/09 1:00 PM, Expires: 10/10/09 11:00 PM)

JR.com is offering the Gateway SX2800-03 Desktop Computer for a low $429.99 shipped. Specs include the Intel Core 2 Quad Q8200 2.33GHz quad-core processor, 4GB memory, 640GB hard drive, DVD burner, Windows Vista Home Premium 64-bit, and more. Click the deal link, then click through on the JR.com listing.


Get this deal and discuss:
http://www.resellerratings.com/forum/t145624.html

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I haven't bought a new computer in ages but I'm starting to get the itch. Problem is I have no idea what's a good processor and what are the "must haves" for another computer. I usually just go with whatever the computer folks recommend at BestBuy. I know, I'm not leet :(

I looked at the computers at newegg (I also am averse to ordering because it's not local support if something doesnt work), and the iBUYPOWER computers look nice.

Is this a good setup? Any downside? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883227146

[Bobmuhthol]

I own an iBuypower and love it. Mine is significantly less powerful than that beast, though.

[Monsoon]

When you get into high-end gaming, you can actually save money by building yourself. Prebuilt gaming systems commonly use non-proprietary parts. Even though they get volume discounts, they usually jack up their prices.

No need to order a full system if you have the peripherals and other components you can reuse.

What would your budget be?

[BriarFox]

Decided to just go prebuilt, since I don't game and I couldn't beat the price. Went with these two from JR.com:

Gateway HX2000 20" Widescreen LCD Monitor - Black
20" widescreen / 16:9 / 1600x900 resolution / 10,000:1 dynamic contrast ratio / 5ms panel response time / VGA & DVI / 720p support with HDCP
129.99

Gateway SX2800-03 Desktop PC
Intel Core 2 Quad Q8200 2.33 GHz / 4GB RAM / 640GB Hard Drive / DVD±R/RW Drive / Intel GMA X4500 / HDMI / Card Reader / Vista Home Premium 64-Bit
429.99

Edit: If I find the graphics card doesn't cut it, I may try to find a decent one to fit in the free PCI Express x16 slot.

The power source is only a 220W, but this is also a slimline tower model and the hardware's not that powerful. Think that'll be okay?

Total: 559.98, with free UPS ground shipping.

[Monsoon]

If Gateway thinks it's enough power, it probably is. But if you do pop in a graphics card, you might have to get a higher-power PSU.

[Celephais]

The powersupply may be an issue if you upgrade your GPU, it may not be, as could the case form factor. Really though if you upgrade your GPU to a low power HTPC slim type card for something like $50 you'll be more than fine IMO, even w/o a PS upgrade.

... again you didn't really answer what you were doing in creative suite, but I think the single best improvement to your productivity you could make would be dual monitors.

[BriarFox]

The powersupply may be an issue if you upgrade your GPU, it may not be, as could the case form factor. Really though if you upgrade your GPU to a low power HTPC slim type card for something like $50 you'll be more than fine IMO, even w/o a PS upgrade.

... again you didn't really answer what you were doing in creative suite, but I think the single best improvement to your productivity you could make would be dual monitors.

Forgot about that question. It's mostly basic printed design work - posters, flyers, newsletters, invitations, and so forth. Nothing too complicated, and I mostly just stick to InDesign. Dual monitors would be awesome, and I may think about that. I could buy a matching LCD monitor in a month or two, I think.

[Celephais]

Just a word of warning, it'll ruin you for all single monitor setups. You can't turn back, and you won't be happy till you have the swordfish setup.
http://www.unofficial3d.com/files/swordfish01.jpg
(or matrix... or serenity, or.. etc)

[BriarFox]

Just a word of warning, it'll ruin you for all single monitor setups. You can't turn back, and you won't be happy till you have the swordfish setup.
http://www.unofficial3d.com/files/swordfish01.jpg
(or matrix... or serenity, or.. etc)

That was an awesome movie.

[BriarFox]

The sx2800 has a free PCI x16 slot, so I'm thinking this card will fit and round things out for graphics work (and watching movies and such):

http://www.jr.com/msi-microstar/pe/MSR_N94GTMD512/

$54.95

Does the PCI 2.0 bit matter for compatibility? This card doesn't say it needs a specific power supply, but I'm also not certain if the 220w will cut it.

Edit: Or this one, I suppose: http://www.jr.com/pny/pe/PNY_VCG84R2SXPB/ I'm not sure the first one will fit the form factor case.

[Androidpk]

If it's just basic stuff then you don't need to upgrade to 8GB of memory. You wouldn't notice any difference going from 4 to 8.

[Celephais]

Don't worry about the 2.0 stuff, they're backwards compatible, and I doubt that card uses the extra bandwidth provided by PCI-Ex 2.0 anyway.

As for the form factor, it's a short card, but I don't know if that case will have height issues, usually if they list a slot as being free they at least leave enough room for standard cards, I'm guessing it'll work perfectly, but check what the return policy is.

[BriarFox]

Don't worry about the 2.0 stuff, they're backwards compatible, and I doubt that card uses the extra bandwidth provided by PCI-Ex 2.0 anyway.

As for the form factor, it's a short card, but I don't know if that case will have height issues, usually if they list a slot as being free they at least leave enough room for standard cards, I'm guessing it'll work perfectly, but check what the return policy is.

Thanks, Celephais. I think I'll try the first one, then, if I can send it back.

[Sean of the Thread]

I had an Acer desktop once that was a POS. Those specs look all right, but I'm still leery. What's the price on it?

I think $899 or so I'd have to double check.

[BriarFox]

Got my sx2800 and monitor and whatnot yesterday, got them set up, and it's all working nice. Question, though. The video card I bought, despite my looking all over its description online for power requirements and not finding them, needs a "minimum 300w power supply." My computer has a 220w. I can buy and install a 350 or 400w for $50. Would it run on a 220, though, or I would I risk just having a computer that doesn't have the juice to function?

[Fallen]

Don't skimp on power. Buy something that you can use later on for a bit more scratch. Just make sure it fits in your case as well. Let me try to find what I ended up getting. Err, I got this monster, which seems out of your budget range. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139007

Try to get something that will have the amount of power per rail that each component needs with room to grow. Walmart and Best Buy sell power sources. Could just ask the people at Best Buy to help you out. I wouldn't bother asking Walmart employees anything.

[Monsoon]

Do not connect it to the 220W. I bet it has paltry amps on the (I'm assuming to be) single rail.

[BriarFox]

I figured laziness and cheapness weren't going to work!

I'm going to get one of these two, I think:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139008

http://www.jr.com/bp350-power-supply/pe/ANT_23350/

[Monsoon]

What video card did you get?

[Monsoon]

Can't go wrong with Corsair PSUs. I put a 450VX in my parents' rig a couple years ago.

[BriarFox]

What video card did you get? Nvidia GeForce 9400, 512 mb. Basic, but it should do the trick.

[BriarFox]

This is a hassle. I talked with a Gateway tech bot (wonderful experience) who said the sx2800 could take up to a 300w power supply, but recommended Google search to find the appropriate one. It also suggested an *integrated* card as a graphics upgrade (the GeForce 6100 with 128mb). That was useless. Looking through forums and whatnot, I can't find the info for what power source will fit in the form factor case and while I did find some appropriate low -profile cards, they mostly have issues with overheating and still need a more powerful PSU.

My solution is to give a great big MEH, buy a HDMI to DVI adapter (my monitor doesn't take HDMI input), and use the built-in HDMI port for the integrated graphics accelerator. Far from great, but like I said earlier, I don't game, so it'll do. I'm just going to ship back the card and cable that I already bought.

[Monsoon]

If you don't game, why did you get a video card anyway?

[Monsoon]

After a couple Google searches, it appears your Gateway uses the FTX form factor.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/266475-28-gateway-sx2800-upgrade

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151070

Seasonic is good stuff.

[BriarFox]

If you don't game, why did you get a video card anyway?

I thought it might help for high-quality videos and such. It was a "cover all the possibilities" thing.

[BriarFox]

Thanks for the links, Monsoon. I read through them, but apparently there's still disagreement among those folks over which supply will fit. The Seasonic is apparently .7" too high or some such. Someone suggests an HP model for their slimline cases, but the sx2800 isn't listed among the models for which it works, though it might anyway.

I think I really am just going to go with the integrated graphics, and if I feel in the future that it desperately needs a graphics upgrade, then I'll wade back into the discussion.

[Monsoon]

Sounds good.

[Celephais]

If you don't game, why did you get a video card anyway?
It frees up some of his ram that was otherwise being reserved for graphics, it allows him to have a monitor with a larger resolution or dual displays if his integrated didn't allow it, programs are increasingly using the GPGPU capabilities of a card in non-graphical applications (Folding at home, etc), the newest creative suite uses graphics cards to offload some of the processing, and he probably doesn't but it can help with HTPC activites.

[Monsoon]

The integrated graphics won't pull much memory since he doesn't game. It's a quad-core machine on a 64-bit OS, so he has plenty of power for graphics work.

On the other hand, if he wants to enjoy HD playback, like Blu-ray, he'll need to get a video card. The Intel GMA X4500 doesn't support HD content.

[BriarFox]

Thanks again for some things to think about, Celephais and Monsoon.

The integrated graphics are so-so, but, surprisingly, the sound's not bad.

[BriarFox]

Oh, I also got a free Windows 7 upgrade, so I'm looking forward to seeing how that works in a couple of weeks.

[Monsoon]

Windows 7 is excellent. ;)

But see if you can get 64-bit.

[BriarFox]

Windows 7 is excellent. ;)

But see if you can get 64-bit.

I did! Windows Vista Home Premium 64-bit to Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit.