How much armor?

[AnticorRifling]

How many armor ranks should I get with my cleric / what type of armor should I wear. I don't know jack about armor to armor rank ratios anymore and I don't know what AsG is good to stop at for clerics. Alittle help please.

[Betheny]

Brig. 35 ranks.

[Bobmuhthol]

You should be at least singling until you get in brig, I think. At 35 ranks you're trained for encumbrance for brog and have the base hinderance of 7% for Major Spirit and Cleric, 6% for Minor Spirit.

[StrayRogue]

Torso chain. Less rt than brig, and only 1% more hindrance.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Less rt than brig,>>

IDIOT ALERT.

[Zeyrin]

Brig, 35 ranks. It's the better way to go for a cleric. I tried chain and didn't care for the hindrance.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
<<Less rt than brig,>>

IDIOT ALERT.

We already know you have a problem with armor Bob, so lets remind people how stupid you are:

Action Penalty for brig: -13
Action Penalty for torson chain: -12

[StrayRogue]

Oh, in regards to SWING rt, brig has one less than torso, yes. Yet the spell hindrance isn't as terrible (7% for Minor, 8% for Major and Cleric) as you'd think.

[Edited on 7-3-04 by StrayRogue]

[Bobmuhthol]

Action penalty has no regards to RT, it's maneuvers.

Chain RT is always going to be higher than scale RT, and that's why you need more ranks.

<<Oh, in regards to SWING rt>>

There's no other RT.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
Action penalty has no regards to RT, it's maneuvers.

Chain RT is always going to be higher than scale RT, and that's why you need more ranks.

<<Oh, in regards to SWING rt>>

There's no other RT.

Standing RT, donning RT, crawling RT...

anticore your better off getting a high enchant set of armor and shield so you dont get hit, I only will ever be hit by maneuver attacks. Even on my back I dont get hit
7% of my spells getting fired back at me puts me at a big disadvantage in my eyes so I will stick with high enchant doubbles,

[Edited on 3-7-2004 by The Edine]

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by StrayRogue

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
Action penalty has no regards to RT, it's maneuvers.

Chain RT is always going to be higher than scale RT, and that's why you need more ranks.

<<Oh, in regards to SWING rt>>

There's no other RT.

Standing RT, donning RT, crawling RT...

...picking RT, getting coins from a box RT, searching RT...

[Kitsun]

Train up to brig. You can always use double but it takes time to shift up to brig on whim.

If you find yourself being hit a lot and hard, use the brig. In some areas, you won't have to worry about it, so then use the doubles.

that takes a lot of TP's and is used for nothing

[TheEschaton]

Edine, you're a moron. Brig is the way to go.

Especially if you have padded brig. I couldn't even imagine going back to doubles now that I have FGB. And I don't get hit, even though FGB is only +17.

One note: I found if I trained in a weapon style, brawl plus shield, or what have you, I would be forced to do minimal armor, like double. Training for runestaves (IE, dropping brawl and shield) freed me up to train armor every train til I got brig, and up everything else too.

-TheE-

your better off tossing it in skills that will raise your DS

[Bobmuhthol]

<<If you find yourself being hit a lot and hard,>>

then you suck.

Also, they really need to take out the injury system. Screw empaths.

[StrayRogue]

Personally, I like to be trained well enough in armor to use a variety. As someone said, if you are going to be getting hit, its nice to be able to move up a sub group. It creates more options.

well considering my offence DS is about 390-410 in my 60's with the path I took, im not to worried about wearing brig.
Also Crits are not as common anymore... and dieing from them even less, your more likely to get killed by Maneuver attcks at older ages. crit padded armor does nothing to protect you from that... PS spend a few mill extra and get crit padded doubbles lighter and just as effective

[Edited on 3-7-2004 by The Edine]

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by The Edine
well considering my offence DS is about 390-410 in my 60's with the path I took, im not to worried about wearing brig
Also Crits are not as common anymore. and dieing from them even less your more likely to get killed by Maneuver attcks at older ages crit padded armor does nothing to protect you from that... PS spend a few mill extra and get crit padded doubbles lighter and just as effective

MTK's would own that pathetic DS. At half your level I can nearly get that with spells.

Nope, crit padded doubles are not as effective as crit padded brig. Crit padding DOES effect maneuvers heavily though. The problem is, decently padded brig is much easier to find than any decent leathers.

Stray I have heavy padded 4x doubles and 9x hunts I die the same in both, I also am a cleric, and oddly enough dont hunt MTK's
and stray have you ever had a character that is say over 50 trains? your DS does not keep going up at the same rate... but you know that so I dont get why you made that comment

ps Stray you lie unless you are talking about things like WOL and Wizard shiled

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by The Edine
Stray I have heavy padded 4x doubles and 9x hunts I die the same in both, I also am a cleric, and oddly enough dont hunt MTK's
and stray have you ever had a character that is say over 50 trains? your DS does not keep going up at the same rate... but you know that so I dont get why you made that comment

Stay version 1 was a lvl 52 warrior.
I have a lvl 60 sorcerer. His DS is over 500.
The only spells I hunt with are self-cast and the group spells.

And yeah, padding makes a difference. The reason it doesn't for you is because you're in doubles. Even if you had Blue's red armor's padding on yours, you'd still die crit deaths. The crit devisor on leathers is so feeble even alot of padding doesn't effect it. Its only on brig, chain and plate do you get to start surviving hits.

[TheEschaton]

Stray, he was saying his DS is 390 to 410 in OFFENSIVE stance.


-TheE-

[StrayRogue]

Here's a test you can try Edine. Get a wizard the same level as you, and have him boil you in both your padded and unpadded leathers a few times. You'll notice a difference in damage taken.

[StrayRogue]

Then he has to be useless to die at all then.

Strayrouge here is a test you can try
go to the stronghold
get boiled by all but mastiffs
get stone hand by shaman and mystic
amor does not matter you die the same

[StrayRogue]

Heh, if you say so Edine. I know it does, I've seen it in effect. Doubles suck in relation to maneuvers. I've yet to die from one since I hit FGB.

ok let me cast a cloud
Ive done it many times to people who thing they are big and bad in their padding and with redux
ZAP no more

[StrayRogue]

Erm, redux doesn't effect maneuvers. Here's a thought, go away, learn about mechanics, come back and talk with the big boys, k?

[Edited on 7-3-04 by StrayRogue]

[TheEschaton]

Clouds get more effective with heavier, metal armors, Edine. Come on now.

-TheE-

yes yes I know, but im talking about people with fgb, who say go ahead hit me

[StrayRogue]

Then come and hit me. Lets see who can take the nicest endroll in brig and doubles. I'll put a million silvers on the fact I can.

[StrayRogue]

Bottom line, you'll survive getting hit more in brig and chain class armors. Bottom line, there is a much nicer variety of brig class armors out there than doubles. Bottom line, if you train for brig (or chain) you can always still wear doubles or brig.

I dont swing, but i bet i can crit you with a spell

[StrayRogue]

Oh spells? Then chain is MUCH nicer. Ever heard of CvA?

[Kitsun]

I find it hilarious that the most fierce debates are happening now over training styles when it matters the least.

I say try out brig, if you find that you can generate the DS to not get hit then shift to lower hinderance armor. If you are getting hit, you won't be sorry you're wearing paper tissue for defense.

[StrayRogue]

*nod Kitsun* The more choice you have, the better you will be off. By confining yourself to one thing, you are breeding in weakness. And the excellent thing about skill goals is that you can remove it, if it's totally useless to you.

ill take the 200 some odd TP's and use them for better things

[Reyek]

doubles... no hinderance. best out there for me. what it when im out trying to kill something down to my last cast and poof i get my 6%/7%. Just get a nice wizard to enchant to 7x and you wont have any issues in doubles. IMO.

[Kitsun]

The thing is Edine, its 100 or so Physical TP's. If you convert its like almost two spells overtraining. You can pick up some secondary or tertiary skills with it.

While my 30-something ranks of armor use will probably go unused for a while, I don't consider it a waste to keep the option open. My cleric isn't exactly hurting for points where 100PTP's will make or break it.

[Reyek]

isnt 280 tps to get 35 ranks in armor for a cleric? or am i just not following along...

[Kitsun]

Uhhh right. I don't know where I pulled 100 from.

But you have to consider that some of the training(like 8 ranks) is to wear doubles anyway.

So the other 27 ranks at 8 PTP per is 216PTP. So its 3 spells and change.

[Reyek]

no doubles by its self causes no hinderance. 8 ranks may help encomberance but hinderance is none.

[Bobmuhthol]

Reyek's right. You need eight ranks to be fully trained for double, but it doesn't incur spell hinderance at all.

well I do not like being a cookie cutter Cleric
I 1x in hiding 1x in perception 1x in picking pockets 1x in trading
and so fourth
so 280 TP's is a shit load to me

[StrayRogue]

Most cookie cutters train 1x perception. Anyway, it is safe to say Edine is a more...mutant character then, correct? I believe Anticor is looking for a more baseline training, and from the majority of the people posting here, I'd say brig, something I agree with.

[AnticorRifling]

I don't know how old I'll get this cleric so I think for all intents and purposes I'll stop at 8 ranks for doubles and wear anything from robes to double leathers. Since there seem to be alot of you that know your armor here is another question. Do wizards still need 15 armor ranks to fully train for double leathers? I've got 15 ranks but I've heard rumors that it's overkill. If someone can show me proof in numbers that I need fewer than I'll drop some armor ranks on Anticor and put them to use elsewhere.

Thanks for all the info thus far even if it was hidden beneath arguements. You people are great.

[Reyek]

yea wizards get hinderance in doubles at a base of 3% i believe. But then again i wouldnt be 100% since my wizard will never wear anything greater then fulls so i wont have to worry about it :) bad hinderance bad!

[Reyek]

BTW im in agreeance with strayrogue on the armor issue. I rather have the scail or brig armor for my cleric. But the cost like edine post is more then i want at the moment. so doubles is the best option for me as the loss of the protection really isnt that much when it breaks down to it. IMO.

[FinisWolf]

>> yea wizards get hinderance in doubles at a base of 3% i believe. But then again i wouldnt be 100% since my wizard will never wear anything greater then fulls so i wont have to worry about it bad hinderance bad! <<

6%< just for your own information Reyek ol buddy.

Finiswolf

[AnticorRifling]

With 15 armor ranks my hinderance is 4% in double leathers as a wizard.

[Reyek]

yep i knew it wasnt 6.

[FinisWolf]

The reason his is only 4% is because he has more ranks then are required, and he has worked off 2% of the hinderance. Of course lazy bones Reyek, you could always go do the math yourself. :lol:

Finiswolf

[Reyek]

you cant get below the base hinderance. from what i read you can have 100 ranks in armor and he will always have a base hinderance of something like 4 or 3. thats something you cant overcome.. unless im wrong about that...

[Mistomeer]

Originally posted by Reyek
you cant get below the base hinderance. from what i read you can have 100 ranks in armor and he will always have a base hinderance of something like 4 or 3. thats something you cant overcome.. unless im wrong about that...

No, you're completely right. And torso chain has what, 1% more hindrance than brig? I always liked torso chain, but since the crit changes, I'm in light leather and I do just fine. I focus on the not getting hit aspect of things.

[Fallen]

Not to draw away from the post, but how many ranks of armor training does one need to eliminate the maneuver penalties for Fulls?