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Apotheosis
09-20-2009, 05:24 AM
Article says it all..

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/18/business/18regulate.html?sq=flash%20trading&st=cse&adxnnl=1&scp=2&adxnnlx=1253438622-30hOzYrwlIXNs4QWEYTF4A&pagewanted=print

U.S. Proposes Ban on ‘Flash’ Trading on Wall Street
By JENNY ANDERSON

It is an obscure art of Wall Street, a technique that gives a scattering of traders an edge over everyone else — and the Securities and Exchange Commission wants to stamp it out.

The S.E.C. on Thursday proposed banning what are known as flash orders, which use powerful computers to glimpse at investors’ orders. The practice is often associated with a controversial corner of finance called high-frequency trading, which has grown, largely hidden from view, into a potent force in the markets.

The proposed ban was announced on the same day that the S.E.C. put forward new rules for credit ratings agencies, which were widely criticized for their role in the financial crisis. Together, the moves telegraphed a tougher line from the commission after a series of prominent missteps, including its failure to spot the Ponzi scheme orchestrated by Bernard L. Madoff.

Critics say flash orders favor sophisticated, fast-moving traders at the expense of slower market participants. Using lightning-quick computers, high-frequency traders often issue and then cancel orders almost simultaneously and get an early peek at how others are trading.

Mary L. Schapiro, the chairwoman of the S.E.C., said on Thursday that in proposing the ban, the commission was trying to balance the often competing interests of long-term investors and short-term traders. The proposal requires a second vote by the commission to become binding.

“Flash orders may create a two-tiered market by allowing only selected participants to access information about the best available prices for listed securities,” she said during a meeting in Washington. Other modern market practices, she said, are similarly opaque.

Fast-moving electronic exchanges have upended old-fashioned stock trading. Buyers and sellers no longer must interact on exchange floors and haggle over prices. Today, traders employ powerful computer programs to execute millions of orders a second and scan dozens of marketplaces simultaneously.

While anyone can gain access to flash orders for a fee, only very powerful computers can process and act on the information. In July, flash orders represented 2.8 percent of the roughly 9 billion shares of stocks traded in the United States.

According to Richard H. Repetto, an analyst at Sandler O’Neill who studies stock exchanges, the average trade is executed, or completed, in less than 10 milliseconds and often as fast as 5 milliseconds.

The proliferation of high-frequency trading has pushed up average daily volume on the nation’s stock exchanges by 164 percent since 2005. Proponents of the practice argue such trading enhances the liquidity and greases the wheels of the markets.

“High frequency trading has made the markets more efficient, and generally speaking, markets that are more efficient are better for all participants,” said Justin Schack, a vice president at Rosenblatt Securities.

Even so, Mr. Schack said he was pleased the S.E.C. was moving to ban flash orders, which he said tended to “benefit everyone except for the customer.”

Direct Edge, an electronic exchange, has benefited the most from the use of flash orders, analysts said. But other electronic exchanges, including Nasdaq and BATS also jumped into the market, prodded by competitive pressures.

Getting flashed an order offers traders a distinctive edge. When buy and sell orders come into an exchange, they are first flashed to those paying to see them for 30 milliseconds — 0.03 seconds — before they are available to everyone else. In the blink of an eye, the systems can detect patterns and get a jump on other investors. Before others even sees the order, high-frequency traders swoop in and then out.

The move to ban flash orders drew praise from some on Capitol Hill.

“This ban, as proposed, is pretty much water-tight and should not be weakened by the commission as the rule-making process goes forward,” said Senator Charles E. Schumer, Democrat of New York. “This proposal will once and for all get rid of flash trading.”

The parent of the New York Stock Exchange, NYSE Euronext, which never adopted flash trades, trumpeted the proposal. “I think this was a practice that gave unfair access to information flow to a select group of brokers, disadvantaged customer orders and led to a two-tier market system,” said Larry Leibowitz, head of United States markets and global technology at NYSE Euronext.

The S.E.C. on Thursday also passed rules aimed at improving transparency at credit rating agencies and reducing conflicts of interest at the companies.

One rule will force certain investors to rely less on credit ratings and more on their own research. Another requires the agencies to disclose rating histories and requires them to share information about securities they have rated with competitors so they too can rate the securities.

“These are baby steps, clearly,” said Jerome S. Fons, an independent consultant and former managing director at Moody’s, one of the major ratings agencies. He said even greater public disclosure was needed from the agencies.

Gelston
09-20-2009, 05:54 AM
Hey! This ain't about football!

Sean of the Thread
09-20-2009, 10:35 AM
This may bother Kranar? Not sure how his system works but it seems relevant if I remember.

Back
09-20-2009, 10:40 AM
This may bother Kranar? Not sure how his system works but it seems relevant if I remember.

Kranar was the first thing I thought of too.

But I think he uses some sort of algorythmic predictor model... not necessarily the same thing as “flash” trading.

Daniel
09-20-2009, 11:40 AM
IIRC this could affect Kranar depending on how they implement it.

He had an algorithm which would analyze the closing positions of mutual funds and reconcile it with the actual price of the stocks. His program would then go in and do a massive buy and sell of the stocks to pick up the differentials at the start of the trading session reaping the benefit.

So, if they limit mass trades through online systems or even ban automatic trades he'd be pretty hosed. I have no idea how they intend to ban this though.

Kranar
09-20-2009, 12:34 PM
This whole flash order business is really quite trivial, but the SEC and Senator Schumer have to make it seem like they're doing something. Not to mention I don't know if half of these guys reporting on flash orders even know what the heck they're talking about.

Basically there is a regulation in the U.S. that says that a stock has to always be bought/sold at the best price. So in non-market terms, if I go to my local 7/11 and place an order to buy some milk for $2.01, but Wal-Mart across the street is selling that same milk for $1.99, 7/11 has a regulatory obligation to sell me the milk from Wal-Mart for the $1.99, as opposed to their own milk for $2.01.

Here's where flash orders come in... the process of the guy at the counter at 7/11 going all the way over to Wal-Mart, picking up the milk for the cheaper price, then coming back to me and selling it to me can take up to half a second. Back when this regulation was instituted, half a second was very fast, but nowadays half a second is really really slow.

So 7/11 decides to announce every time they're going to head over to Wal-Mart to redirect the purchase. For the first .3 seconds, they simply announce that an order is being redirected and ask if anyone is interested in selling the milk to this guy for the $1.99 to avoid making the trip. If after that .3 seconds, no one jumps in, then the trip is made.

That is the flash order in question. Basically the guy who is trying to buy the milk has his order flashed to everyone else saying he is willing to buy milk for $2.01, and then after .3 seconds, his order is canceled and then submitted at the new price of $1.99 at Wal-Mart.

Now I decide I'm going to take advantage of this, what do I do? I quickly run to Wal-Mart and buy all the milk they were selling for $1.99. So there, the best price for milk is no longer $1.99. I then instantly run back to the 7/11 and sell the milk for $2.00, my new price becomes the best price so the 7/11 guy can just come to me instead of making the round trip. I also now have made a profit of 1 cent. I have to do all this within 0.3 seconds or else I lose my window of opportunity.

Basically the ban is that 7/11 will no longer be allowed to announce this kind of thing. If they don't immediately have the best price available, they have to go to Wal-Mart.

I don't particularly care if this gets banned, it doesn't make me that much money and it's not the guaranteed gold mine that a lot of news articles are making it out to be. It's very competitive since you're not the only guy racing to Wal-Mart to get the cheaper product, if you're not the first person to make the round trip you're now left holding a whole bunch of milk with no one to sell it to. But yeah, I mean if I see one guy buying at a high price while someone else is simultaneously selling at a low price, I will close the gap and pocket the change. Who wouldn't?

Daniel
09-20-2009, 12:37 PM
So what exactly would be the mechanism through which you would prevent this from happening?

Kranar
09-20-2009, 12:41 PM
Well the flash order in question is from the guy who is buying milk for $2.01. His order gets flashed to everyone basically saying "Hey, this guy wants milk for $2.01 but Wal-Mart is selling it for $1.99, anyone want to sell this guy the milk for the best price or am I gonna have to make the round trip myself?"

So you would just ban that announcement. No more asking if anyone else wants to sell the guy the milk at the best price and waiting for half a second for takers. If when the guy submits his order to buy milk, if 7/11 can not sell him the milk at the best price, then 7/11 has no choice but to head over to Wal-Mart there and then and get the milk for the best price. I, the guy trying to take advantage of this, would never know about the round trip, no information would be made available to me.

Revalos
09-20-2009, 01:59 PM
http://cdn3.knowyourmeme.com/i/10632/original/i-drink-your-milkshake.png

I've often wondered how long it was going to take for the stock market to join the 21st century. I forsee a lot more rules and regulations that reduce the advantage of advances in computing compared to the statutory changes in the market method so that traders (mostly foreign investors) are on an even playing field with professionals.