Hypothetical Situation.

[SpunGirl]

So someone close to me wants to go to Denny's with his friends, and I say, "I really really don't like Denny's, in fact, it disgusts me, the things that go on there are vile. But I will deal with you going to Denny's, even though it hurts me, as long as you don't eat pancakes."

"Okay," he says. "I promise not to eat pancakes. There will be NO pancakes."

And then he comes back.

"Did you eat pancakes?"

"Well, yes, I did eat the pancakes, but they weren't really as syrupy as you seem to think they are. I didn't really want to eat them, I was uncomfortable while eating them, but Andy bought them for me and I didn't think it would be right to walk away from them. But the pancakes are nothing like you thought."

(long argument, many apologies, promises never to eat pancakes again).

Seven months later.

"We are all going to Denny's again."

/stare

"I know what happened last time we went to Denny's, and I swear, I promise, I will NOT eat pancakes this time. I swear. I promised you this before, and I promsie again. No pancakes."

So I say, "I am not making this decision for you. If you decide to go to Denny's, I trust that you won't eat pancakes again. I think you understand now just how much it hurts me that you ate pancakes last time. So have fun, I'll see you later."

And again.

"Did you eat pancakes?"

"No, I didn't" (shifty look).

"I can tell you're lying to me. DID YOU EAT PANCAKES."

"Well, er, yes, I did. But my friends were all there, encouraging me to eat them - I'm really sorry, I don't even LIKE pancakes, in fact, I hated them while I was eating them, but I had no choice, really -"

"How many pancakes did you eat?"

"One." (shifty look)

"You're lying."

"Okay, I ate three, but my friends bought them for me -"

"I don't know if I can hang out with you. Not only did you break your promise to me, but you tried to lie to me about it as well."

"I swear on my life, I will never ever ever go to Denny's again. You are right not to trust me at Denny's, because I just do what my friends want and don't think about anything else. I WILL NEVER GO TO DENNY'S AGAIN."

(more angsty stuff. hang out with the pancake-eater anyway).

And NOW, SEVEN FUCKING MONTHS LATER.

"Well, see, in a few months we have ocassion to go to Denny's again."

/stare

"Well, I don't know if I'm going to go yet, I just thought I'd let you know.'

So I say, "I'm not making this decision for you. But I'll tell you now, even if you DON'T eat pancakes this time, I won't believe you when you tell me you didn't. And if you do, it's over between us. And you know I hate Denny's anyway."

SO THE QUESTION IS.

What is the right answer here, hm? Should someone who has proven he cannot handle himself about pancakes, and will in fact lie about pancakes, put me through the angst of going to where there are pancakes again?

I hate angst, btw.

-K

[Edited on 3-5-2004 by SpunGirl]

[Bobmuhthol]

My brother and his friends have a similar situation. Andy is all, "Guys I'm driving to Denny's let's go!" and nobody wants to. He thinks because he's driving he can choose what everyone's going to do, and everyone has their driver's license and a car.

Basically, the solution is we make fun of him constantly. That's what you should do.

[DianaBanana]

I'm going to agree with Bob, but only because he made me a kick-ass avatar. So in this case, whatever Bob says..that's what you should do. :baa:

[Edited on 3-5-2004 by DianaBanana]

[Satira]

First of all I'm thinking Denny's is actually a strip club and pancakes happen to be stripper/hookers. Am I wrong!?

Anyways, lets say THEY ARE pancakes. This guy is a LIAR. With a capital L. I can't believe he would lie about syrupy pancakes! If you really have a problem with Denny's, and this guy is obviously persuaded by peer pressure... I wouldn't continue to be friends with him. But there IS an exception. If he doesn't go ever again.

I'd say if he doesn't go this time, but that might just be to appease you. And the next time it comes up he'll say, "But I didn't go last time and this time I really am STARVING for Denny's."

So if it really means a lot to you, I'd just tell him either don't go ANYMORE or we're through.

[SpunGirl]

I think you have a point there, Satira. Am I wicked weird for wanting him to come to the decision of not going on his own? I don't want to tell him what to do, I want him to discern that not going is the RIGHT thing to do.

Only then will I be satisfied that there will be no more pancakes.

-K

P.S. Bob made me laugh. Thank you.


[Edited on 3-5-2004 by SpunGirl]

[Caiylania]

Girl, I've been there. He's already lied twice, if he even LOOKS at Denny's while driving by he should be out the door :(

But I agree on how you tried to let him be the one to decide.

Either way, its tough.

[Myshel]

I've always been of the opinion.. Look all you want, even comment because I want to hear what you think about other women. Just don't touch. If he wants to go to Denny's and slobber over the pancakes, go, but if you touch thats when your booted out the door.

wtf?

[StrayRogue]

Ok, is there some kind of second meaning here? Isn't Denny's another one of America's "make it cheap and nasty, sell it high and pricy" places?

Regardless, the man is either a weakling, or a liar. Disgard him.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I've a hanker'n for some pancakes!

[peam]

Want me to beat the pancakes out of him?

[Wezas]

I, personally haven't been to a metaphocal Denny's. I've had several invites, but the "pancakes" Denny's has to offer really have no appeal to me. I like my pancakes homecooked or carryout.

Have you thought about going to a Burger King to check out their Whopper with the girls? That may make him think about his situation.

<not helping much>

[Ylena]

Personally, I'm of the opinion that even if he's not going to Denny's, he's ogling the pancakes at IHOP or the pancake ads on TV. It's never really bothered me as long as he comes home to eat my waffles -- and he can bring the Mrs. Butterworth's.

Although in an ideal world, he'd refrain from Denny's just because it bothers you, if you REALLY want him to come to the conclusion that Denny's isn't where he needs to be -- I'd let it go. Because part of what makes Denny's attractive is the "it's forbidden and I'm doing something naughty" aspect. If you're not jonesing about it, he's entirely liable to figure out that it's pretty dumb to be spending a lot of money on fantasy pancakes when a hearty real breakfast is on the table someplace else.

Don't discount the "guy code" part of this, either. If he's not going, his buddies are going to be giving him the p-whip stuff. In fact, you don't know how much p-whip stuff he's getting for not going for months. It may have gotten to the point where on some level, he feels like he has to go to save face. If you make him choose between you and his friends, it's never good. Yes, you can make the argument that a "stronger person would resist peer pressure", but it's hard to resist the siren call of your buddies when they're enticing you to do something that at least part of you wants to do anyway.

If you can't live with that, and I understand it -- do you have something that you do that bothers him a great deal? Maybe you can barter?

And another possibility -- maybe in some way, he needs to see you get upset about it. Maybe it makes him feel more valuable to you if you're not okay with Denny's. Maybe it makes him feel more wanted or something.

And maybe I'm rambling to no purpose, but I hope at least some of this helps.

Elizabeth
(philosopher? not)

[Trinitis]

*looks around at all the ladies, confused*

Wha?

[Caiylania]

It's about men who can't resist peer pressure (if thats what it really was) and disrespect their women.

yah.

[Wezas]

Disclaimer: Unless you're at the end of your rope about this situation, disregard the following.

Here's a notion, next time he goes to Denny's, ask if you can join him. If he says "it's a guy thing", then say "fine", but follow him there and if you see him eating pancakes, walk up to him and call him on it. In front of his friends and everything.

If he invites you along.... I'm not quite sure what the right answer for that is.

[Wezas]

As an afterthought, opinions about looking at pancakes on the internet?

[Trinitis]

eating pancakes is disrespectful? ::scratches head:: but I love pancakes..with peanut butter on them! This mean I'm a bad man? :(

-Adredrin

[Wezas]

Originally posted by LordAdredrin
eating pancakes is disrespectful? ::scratches head:: but I love pancakes..with peanut butter on them! This mean I'm a bad man? :(

-Adredrin

peanut butter, you sick puppy. Do you know where those pancakes have been?

[Skirmisher]

Very VERY bad.

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Wezas

Originally posted by LordAdredrin
eating pancakes is disrespectful? ::scratches head:: but I love pancakes..with peanut butter on them! This mean I'm a bad man? :(

-Adredrin

peanut butter, you sick puppy. Do you know where those pancakes have been?

I..Yah! I made them damnit! So they came from a box of mix..I cooked them, then put peanut butter on 'em!

Whats da big deal? :(

[Miss X]

I shall instruct Kylie to beat the pancake loving out of you! ;)

[Trinitis]

I'm so confused :(

[Skirmisher]

Just put the pancakes down and slowly back away.

[Trinitis]

Mental Note, stop reading the boards when I first wake up...




Fuzzybean69: Ok
Fuzzybean69: I'm lost
Fuzzybean69: what the heck is wrong with pancakes?
Fuzzybean69: they are good!
Fuzzybean69: I mean, granted, Denys pancakes suck..cause they are all weak and no flavored..
Fuzzybean69: but
Miss X: um, shes using pancakes as a euphamism for strippers
Fuzzybean69: OH!
Fuzzybean69: ::slaps head::
Miss X: and dennys is the 'strip club'
Fuzzybean69: MY GOD
Miss X: lol
Fuzzybean69: Don't do that to someone who just woke up!
Miss X: men
Fuzzybean69: ::flails::

[Skirmisher]

I was cracking up earlier when i realized you really had no idea what we were talking about.

[Miss X]

Before the grammar police arrive, please note I realise I spelt Euphemism wrong in that conversation, and I also realise I used it in the wrong context, however I couldnt think of the word I was looking for at the time. :)

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Miss X
Before the grammar police arrive, please note I realise I spelt Euphemism wrong in that conversation, and I also realise I used it in the wrong context, however I couldnt think of the word I was looking for at the time. :)

<siren on>
realize
<siren off>
<runs away>

[Miss X]

Hi, I'm English and it's spelt realise. We don't use all those weird Z's in our words! ;)

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Miss X
Hi, I'm English and it's spelt realise. We don't use all those weird Z's in our words! ;)

Damn Britz

[Galleazzo]

I dunno. Guy should've said a long time ago:

"Woman, I'm a man. And a man's got to do what a man's got to do. And if I got to saddle up into my car and go to Denny's, I'll be a-doing that. And if I got to belly up to the bar and eat pancakes, I'll do that too. (Even though that fake syrup Denny's serves is nasty.) So what's it gonna be, Woman?"

:saint:

[Trinitis]

Why do women havta make everything so complicated?!

It coulda been all typed out, and understood perfectly in two lines!



My husband keeps going to the strip clubs, and it bothers me.

Discuss.


See that was not hard!! :(

[Ylena]

Originally posted by Caiylania
It's about men who can't resist peer pressure (if thats what it really was) and disrespect their women.

I can absolutely see why you would say that, and maybe that's the case. But I don't know that I can make the leap that going to Denny's means he's disrespecting his woman.

I go to any movie with Sean Connery. Sean could sit in a chair and smile and be filmed for two hours, I'd be there. I'd argue that my movie going, in that case is for some of the same reasons guys go to Denny's. Does that mean I'm disrespecting my guy if I go to Sean Connery movies? Does that mean he's disrespecting me when he's at Angelina Jolie movies?

Here's something else to ponder: just because he's not going to Denny's, doesn't mean that he's not noticing pancakes everywhere. Some of my guy friends have referred to it as falling in and out of love in 10 seconds, and they probably do it 20 times a day.

I guess where I'm going with this is... hell, when I was in my 20s, I probably wouldn't have been okay with Denny's, myself, because I would have seen it as him disliking my waffles. The older I get, the less I think that's the case. For all that we like to pretend politically correct equality, people are different -- and men and women are very different. You might not understand the whole Denny's vibe and what he gets out of it -- but there are probably a lot of things that you do that he doesn't understand, too.

You can count yourself lucky if you like 75% or better of a person's qualities. Nobody ever hits 100%. Maybe it's worth sitting down with a piece of paper, drawing a line down the middle, and listing the "great"s and "I can't tolerate"s. It helps me put things in persepective. Maybe it IS time for you to call it off, but if it is, you're going to see a lot more than Denny's listed on the "can't tolerate" side.

Elizabeth
(dwelling on it)

[Trinitis]

Pancakes, waffles, Bah! Your making me hungry!

[Caiylania]

It's not about whether he's oggling women or not.

It's about the fact that her request he not do it doesn't matter to him. And he lied.

For example, I won't live with someone who smokes. So if my husband came home smelling like smoke, and said.....err. I had to, no choice, blah blah, he married me knowing how I felt.

So he does it again and lies, saying, its from the people around me who smoked and I give him a shot.

Then I find out he really is smoking and lied to me about it.

Thats disrespect for me, and lying. Neither of which are very good for a marriage (understatement here)

Now, if I married a smoker, do I have a right a year later to throw a hissy? No. But he KNEW how I felt and did it anyway. That would be wrong.

-this did not happen, it is an example.

[Edaarin]

Let me start by beginning with my token, "This is further proof that women are completely, utterly insane." I mean, why couldn't you just say strippers straight off the bat! We're not psychic, please don't expect us to know what you're saying. If something's bothering you, dont say NOTHING IS BOTHERING YOU because we will take that to mean that (gasp) NOTHING IS BOTHERING YOU.

That said...I don't quite understand. Stripclubs = one of those guy things. It's like playing golf. We may suck at it, but it's one of the few things that guys do together and enjoy. Let him have his male bonding time and stop suffocating the poor guy.

Asking to go next time = NOT A GOOD IDEA.

[Ravenstorm]

For me, trust is a very important issue. If I couldn't trust my partner in one thing, I'd have to wonder what else I couldn't trust him about. It sounds like you need to sit down and have a very serious talk.

He needs to realize he's not some fifteen your old sneaking out after curfew in a bid to get around his parents' rules. He's an adult whose word to someone he theoretically cares about is becoming meaningless.

Raven

[Galleazzo]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm
For me, trust is a very important issue. If I couldn't trust my partner in one thing, I'd have to wonder what else I couldn't trust him about. It sounds like you need to sit down and have a very serious talk.

If we're dropping the euphemisms ......

Guys lie about that for one reason, and that's 'cause 99 women out of 100 go off like a volcano. (About half of them wiggle on their couches and rub their thighs Wednesday nights if Spike takes his shirt off, but WTF, when did consistency matter here?)

That 1 woman in 100 is the one who says, "I don't care who you ogle as long as you bring that hardon home to me," and she got a faithful man, because he's not going to screw around just to prove no one can push him around.

[CrystalTears]

<whines> Why couldn't you just SAY where he was going that you didn't like? It's not like you have to camo everything here like you do on the official boards or something. People tell people to fuck off and you can't say "my man's been going to see strippers against my request to not"? Good gravy. I was so confused myself!

To keep going with the metaphor, men like looking and drooling over pancakes. It's what they do and what they crave, and ain't no woman alive that can make them stop oggling the pancakes. As long as he keeps eating YOUR pancakes, then that's really all you have to worry about. If he's actually eating their pancakes, then yeah, you may need a talk. But just looking and checking out? Why does it matter? I guess of course you would need a strong relationship to not care about other pancakes that aren't a threat to yours.

And why can't she go?! Although I'm the sort to want to go on general principle because I love pancakes almost as much as the next guy and would probably pay to let him lick the syrup. He eats my pancakes, comes home for my pancakes (and milkshake) and that's what I care about. Each person and relationship is different so you both need to decide what is or isn't acceptable pancake oggling. :D

You could have used the cake metaphor too. If he has the cake, can he eat it too? <snickers>

[Drew2]

Aunt Jamaima

<------

[Skirmisher]

I also would normaly be willing to go, but in this case I can see how the issue for you at this point might be his promise to not get the lapdance(what have you) and then failing to follow through on that promise.

Perhaps once you might steel yourself and be ready to go with him and the next time he mentions it, offer to go with. See how he reponds and take it from there.

[Ambrosia]

Why don't you just go with him? Strip clubs are actually fun, especially when you're a female with a bunch of guys, the strippers mess with you more than the males. Want to see a bunch of guys get jealous? Have the stripper they just paid $50 messing with you rather than them. ;)

That being said, even if you don't have fun, you can always get drunk.

[Ravenstorm]

Whether he should have been allowed to go is another topic. Thoguh we might as well address it here too...

Guys like to look. Get used to it. Guys like to hang out with guys. Get used to it. Guys like to combine the two. Get used to it. And I'm guessing there wasn't any sit down discussion about going to strip clubs but instead an order. "Don't go!" Nor does emotional blackmail, if any was attempted. Such as 'if you loved me/cared about my feelings' blah blah blah... That doesn't work.

Communicate and compromise on both ends is the only way.

However, once he agreed to it he should have stood by it. And especially once he got caught the first time, he should have made certain to abide by his word or just honestly said he was not going to follow her 'rule'.

It's not too late to actually have a rational discussion about it and compromise. And go with him too. And find some friends ot go watch some male strippers yourself. Don't knock it till you've tried it.

Raven

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Ambrosia
Want to see a bunch of guys get jealous? Have the stripper they just paid $50 messing with you rather than them. ;)


Heh, that reminded me of the time that my fiance and I went to our favorite titty bar and the flavor of the week had her eye more on me than the guys because she was gay. So when we took our picture with her, I was sitting on his lap and the chick was on my lap and she had her hands wrapped around one of my breasts. On our way home he kept glancing at the picture and saying, "You can't even SEE me in this picture! It's all about you and her! That's just wrong." Needless to say, it's my favorite polaroid. :D

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Wezas

<siren on>
realize
<siren off>
<runs away>

Ahem. First of all, "realise" is the correct spelling in some countries. Second, those who insist on posting just to correct someone else's spelling will find that their post totals may begin to hemorrhage. :)

HarmNone, grinning

[Skirmisher]

CT, your man is a keeper.:yes:

[Wezas]

Originally posted by HarmNone

Originally posted by Wezas

<siren on>
realize
<siren off>
<runs away>

Ahem. First of all, "realise" is the correct spelling in some countries. Second, those who insist on posting just to correct someone else's spelling will find that their post totals may begin to hemorrhage. :)

HarmNone, grinning

Did you not read the whole thread? I was already yelled at. Big meanie.

[Skirmisher]

Yeah...well...then there is no need for me to break out the whip now I guess....:(

[HarmNone]

I saw it, Wezas. I am just not the type who will pass up an opportunity when one so aptly presents itself! :D

HarmNone, grasper of opportunities

[HarmNone]

Heh. Not one to worry about "pancakes", I would not care if he went out for "pancakes". I am sure I could think of something to occupy MY time while he was doing so, and it would be best if he did not ask me about, nor comment upon, my choice of entertainment. ;)

The one thing that does bother me is the lie. I do not take well to lies, but I do my best not to put people into situations where they feel compelled to lie. If the cards are on the table, people can make their choices.

HarmNone

[Galleazzo]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
Heh, that reminded me of the time that my fiance and I went to our favorite titty bar and the flavor of the week had her eye more on me than the guys because she was gay. So when we took our picture with her, I was sitting on his lap and the chick was on my lap and she had her hands wrapped around one of my breasts. On our way home he kept glancing at the picture and saying, "You can't even SEE me in this picture! It's all about you and her! That's just wrong." Needless to say, it's my favorite polaroid. :D

:yes: Now that's fair!

[Bobmuhthol]

OMG PANCAKE$ RULE

[SpunGirl]

Going to strip clubs I can handle, it's the lapdances I cannot handle. It just disgusts me.

You guys make me laugh. Thanks. Maybe we can pool our money and buy Bob a lapdance for his 18th birthday in five years if we haven't all gone completely insane by then.

I appreciate all your suggestions/words of wisdom/etc. Anyone who knows me knows I can be a pretty flirty, touchy-feely kind of person... I guess that could be compared, but somehow to me that's different than some stranger rubbing her nasty fake boobs in your face. Isn't it?

In any case, I don't want to give the impression Jake is a bad guy, because he's not. As previously pointed out, he lets me go to cons un-babysat and is generally easygoing. This is the third time in over three years that this kind of outing has/will become an issue for us. I don't know why I hate it so much, except that I just do. Look at porn on the internet? Fine. Get Playboy? I could care less. I dunno. But thanks.

-K

[Edited on 3-5-2004 by SpunGirl]

[Bobmuhthol]

....

marry me

[Galleazzo]

He gets lapdances there too? Okay, that's a bit across the line. I can see getting POed at that. Kinda nasty to ask where your man's undies are and he can't say he threw them out because some stripper wiggled her ass against his bone until, well, you get the picture.

[SpunGirl]

SEE. Thank you.

I can live with the going, especially because it's been less than once a year. The other shit grosses me out.

-K

[Galleazzo]

Yer welcome.

Besides which those fake boobs ARE nasty. I like my racks as God made 'em, and if they're not 36-DD, screw it, they all look nice when they're attached to a nice lady.

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by SpunGirl
I can live with the going, especially because it's been less than once a year. The other shit grosses me out.

You need to be talking to him, not us. Especially if it bothers you that much.

Raven

[SpunGirl]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm

You need to be talking to him, not us. Especially if it bothers you that much.

Raven

I talk to him plenty, thanks, but I don't recall signing the "thou wilst not seek advice from crazy PC posters" document.

-K

[Galleazzo]

Besides which SG did something smart. She asked outsiders if she was being reasonable. Easy to get too close to the picture.

[Ravenstorm]

I didn't say you shouldn't get second opinions. I'm saying that if something is bothering you that much, you need to sit down and discuss the particular problem with the person involved.

By all means discuss it with whomever else you want but the only way you'll resolve the problem it is with him. If you already have, great. If you already intended to, great. But you asked:


What is the right answer here, hm?

And I'm answering. The right answer includes discussing the problem with him calmcy and reasonably and with the intention of working out a compromise you can both live with.

Raven

[Edited on 3-5-2004 by Ravenstorm]

[Shari]

I know this is really immature...but why don't you even the playing board? Tell him that you and some of your girlfriends are going to male strip club. If he asks what you're going there for...just tell him, "Oh I just wanted to see what all the fuss is about."

I understand your frustration about the lap dances, and I like the others' suggestion of you tagging along. If he doesn't care then you're probably worrying about nothing, but if he makes a big stink about you going I would just tell him you don't know when YOU'LL be back from the Chippendale club. (If there is such a thing)

<must live in a box and never knew>

<didn't know what the FUCK this post was about when started reading about it>

<feels like idiot>

[Skirmisher]

Yes of course, I may be off base but I simply assumed that the discussion with him was a given and this was simply an attempt to get some relatively unbiased opinions about the situation prior to that discussion.

[HarmNone]

I would just have him drop me off at the nearest male strip joint, or handsome male masseur, on his way. Although I have no real interest in such things, I would certainly at least enter the building, and I would be there when he came to collect me...with my hair and makeup properly mussed. ;)

Something tells me his interest in such things as lap dances at strip joints would wane rather quickly.

HarmNone, on lateral moves

[Shari]

Hahaha, me and Harmnone rock....and you seemed so well-behaved in all your posts. Harmnone's like one of the people whose all shy and quiet and when you irk them you end up a steaming pile of jelly on the floor.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Ylena
I can make the leap that going to Denny's means he's disrespecting his woman.
Lying = disrespectful.
Originally posted by Harmnone
"realise" is the correct spelling in some countries. Yes, but a very high percentage of those countries fall under the "un-American" category. Thus, they can be discounted out of hand. :D

[HarmNone]

Heh. I am anything but shy, Jesae! I rarely meet anybody with whom I cannot easily walk up and launch a conversation. They may think I am a bit nuts, but they would be ever so right! :D

HarmNone, not the shy type

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by HarmNone
I rarely meet anybody with whom I cannot easily walk up and launch a conversation. They may think I am a bit nuts, but they would be ever so right! :DIs this before or after the Bailey's? :saint:

[HarmNone]

It works for me either way, Latrinsorm. I just am not one to be intimidated by much of anything. People are people. One is little different from another, and no one is better than another. If we cannot communicate with one another, what do we really have?

HarmNone, confident member of the species homo sapiens

[Bobmuhthol]

<<and no one is better than another.>>

I'm better than everyone. Except chicks. <3 chicks.

<<confident member of the species homo sapiens>>

Homos rule.

[SpunGirl]

"If the homo sapeins were in fact HOMOS, is that why they're extinct?"

"Homo sapeins are PEOPLE, Joey."

"Hey! I'm not judging!"

Friends is funny.

-K

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Friends is funny.>>

http://artstream.ucsc.edu/fdm170a/joanne/wrong.gif

[TheEschaton]

This thread made me hungry.

In truth, I've only been to Denny's once, and I was forced there on my 19th birthday by my friends (19 is the legal drinking age in Ontario). I didn't eat any pancakes, but the staff managed to parade the whole line of breakfast foods in front of me (Canada allows full stacks of pancakes, not just half stacks).

Frankly, I was surprised by my reaction. Believe me, I like breakfast foods - but I guess I didn't like being forced to eat (or at least have my friends trying to shove food down my throat). I've never been back.

That being said: Bros before hoes!

-TheE-

[Betheny]

Get dressed up real sexy, slide into bed, and then... roll over and deny his ass sex for two weeks.

Dude wants to go to a strip club even though you disapprove? He can jerk off like the rest of the patrons. BOO YA

[TheEschaton]

Get dressed up real sexy, slide into bed, and then... roll over and deny his ass sex for two weeks.


I would deny any ass sex as a matter of protocol. Maybe not you, but, I dunno. ;)

-TheE-

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Maimara
Get dressed up real sexy, slide into bed, and then... roll over and deny his ass sex for two weeks.

Um.. this approach doesn't always work. Denying it will only encourage him to seek it elsewhere even more, which is why many men (and women for that matter) have affairs because when things are bad at home, instead of working on the sex, it is being denied and they're not satiated. Sex for some is as necessary as food. Depriving a hungry dog of food is going to go find it somehow, even if it means leaving his warm comfy home.

Yeah I'm so gonna get yelled at for THAT comment now. :D

[SpunGirl]

Nah, I think you're just being true to some base human desires, CT. While I chuckled at Beth's suggestion, I myself do not want to go for two weeks without sex.

-K

[Bobmuhthol]

Woah, two weeks is a long time?

I'd like to be eighteen now, thanks.


...as long as I'm not Tayre.

[Edited on 3-5-2004 by Bobmuhthol]

[SpunGirl]

When you are, we'll get you a lapdance.

/puts $10 in the donation pot

-K

[Mint]

Heh, I just found the picture that Bob posted in the picture thread. I would say he wouldnt get carded in any bar or strip club now. And he is handsome:

[Bobmuhthol]

If that were me, I'd be at Denny's getting pancakes all day.

depriving sex doesn't work with every dude.

[Caiylania]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by Ylena
I can make the leap that going to Denny's means he's disrespecting his woman.
Lying = disrespectful.

Something we agree on!! ::cheers::

:)

[Weedmage Princess]

I'm soooo with Harm None on this one.

Any guy I've ever been serious with, I put this restriction on the whole strip club thing. Go if you want, I won't stop you. However that entitles me to my night out. They'd just assume that meant I was going to some male strip joint. Shit always wound up hitting the fan when they came to the realization that I was actually going on dates. "Hey, I'm not spending any of my own money...I'm getting taken out, getting all the attention..as long as I don't cross the line (just like I have to trust you not to cross the line at the ta-ta bar) ..who cares?"

They never saw it that way, though ::shrugs::

Now THAT'S a friggin double standard.

[Satira]

You actually applied those tactics, Weedy!? I can't believe it. Bold woman.

[Weedmage Princess]

Yes'm :) I actually only went through with it once though...any other time the proposal was put on the table..after lots of debating, the guy decided to forego the strip club :smug:

[HarmNone]

It really does not take boldness to do the kind of thing Weedie and I espouse. It only takes a willingness to even the playing field. If a man chooses to go to a strip club and have his body rubbed by that of a half-naked woman, why can a woman not indulge in her own idea of an equivalent passtime?

A bit of thinking about that option usually brings about a change of tune in the man. Odd, is it not? ;)

HarmNone

[Tendarian]

Theres a pretty huge difference between dating someone and going to watch strippers though.

[Weedmage Princess]

I said go out on a date. Not "dating" them as in having them on the side. You're twisting it, Tendarian. :p

[Tendarian]

If that was the case wouldnt the guy just go on a date too? Heck id rather my gf go to a strip bar and see men better built than me being paid to be around her than some guy who wants to be around her cause he sees the same great things i do. I still dont think they are the same,but since ive never even been to a strip club i guess im just ignorant of what goes on there.

[Weedmage Princess]

Eh...I see it more like this. [some] Men go to strip clubs because they want to be stimulated. The mostly (or in some cases, totally) naked chicks dancing and touching them, etc..is what stimulates them. Mostly (or totally) naked men I don't know dancing and grinding on me doesn't stimulate me, so I have no desire to go to a place like that for my stimulation. Is it not a double standard for a guy to go elsewhere and get their stimulation, yet I can not?

That's really sweet, what you said about the guy seeing all the great things you see in your girlfriend :) However, if your girlfriend is willing to trust you enough to not cross that line when you go elsewhere for your stimulation, it's only fair you trust her enough not to cross the line as well...no matter how great the guy thinks she is ;)

**edited to add: That's one of the final arguments I've always gotten from guys. "Can't you just go to a male strip bar too?" "Uhm, no dear. I'm not into that." "Bah, forget it then." ...muahaha

[Edited on 3-6-2004 by Weedmage Princess]

[Tendarian]

That makes more sense now that you explained it. Im just glad i never have to worry about stuff like this.

[SpunGirl]

Yeah, the guys in those places are nasty. On the second night in question, my friends took me to the male equivalent. One word.

N-A-S-T-Y.

Guys in fringed banana hammocks waving their weiners in my face? No thank you. Don't touch me, I'd rather not get the happies from your skanky ass.

-K

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I'm still wanting pancakes :(

sooo hungry.

Edit: I'm on a psuedo atkins thing so no pancakes for me :( I hate analogies that make me hungry.

[Edited on 3-6-2004 by Suppa Hobbit Mage]

[Betheny]

IHOP has stuffed french toast.

i want some :(

[CrystalTears]

I rather like the male strip clubs so long as they don't get completely naked. Something about them swinging themselves up down and around kinda gives me the beebie jeebies.

Back in Florida I used to go to this place called LaBare. :lol: Yeah classy name. They were great there. They didn't get completely naked and for the most part, they were all gorgeous. One guy, who was built like a tank with long hair, would do a bath routine and ... <shivers>. Anyway. I would hang out there and then I would walk over to their "sister" club that had naked girls. I could never decide which one was better.

Yeah I'm sure you're all enlightened about knowing that much more about me. :P

[Myshel]

You don't want him to go to Denny's and he does want to, so he lies when he goes with his buddies and your convinced he partakes of the pancakes.

Lying is his problem to do something he obviously wants to do.
If you could find it in yourself to say "hey.. go.. have fun, come home with a hard-on for me", then lying problem would be solved.
Jealousy on your part is your problem.
So the question I want to ask you is do you trust him to be faithful to you and is it worth it to indulge him in his fantasy of women wanting him? Because you know they don't want him, just his money.
Does he indulge you in things you want to do, that he doesn't feel comfortable with? Perhaps not sexual but a trust issue.
In a earlier post I said look but don't touch. I know my sig. other has a huge appreciation for women, he loves to look and comment. One thing I had to get over earlier in our marriage was this issue, but I've come to realize that men view sex so differently than women, to them sex is a physical release. That's why they can have sex every day and STILL masturbate. They think about sex more than us. They love to feed their fantasies that all women want them.
So if he wants to go titty bars and fantasize that beautiful woman is really hot for him, and the 50 he just tucked into her crotch was for show, let him dream.

[Chelle]

I personally don't see anything wrong with men/husbands/boyfriends going to strip clubs. I guess because I've gone with them. Have you seen these skanks?! The guys I've gone with wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole cuz they're nappy, but they have great boobs... No teeth but great boobs. LOL! I'm kidding about the teeth.. I think.

Anyways, I guess I just don't see the problem. Mainly cus like I said, I've been there and they're not that great looking and some of them are hookers, who need money to pay for their drugs... I mean college. Cuz, some of them look really bad and unhealthy and probably unsafe to have sex or even a BJ from.

Wives are so insecure with themselves and they don't give their husbands credit these days. Most men, unless they are desperate, sex starved, or fiends are not going to sleep with a stripper. They just aren't. Men are more likely to sleep with someone they know is... clean. Like a co-worker or something. So strip clubs are the least of your worries. If he's gonna cheat, he's gonna cheat regardless, and it won't be with a stripper.

[Weedmage Princess]

Originally posted by Mint
Heh, I just found the picture that Bob posted in the picture thread. I would say he wouldnt get carded in any bar or strip club now. And he is handsome:

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!

Bob is teh hot...I have never, ever cheated on anyone I was with...But Bob would be the exception..rawr?!

[Satira]

I didn't see anything wrong with the exception that Harm None made. That's fair.

Really, Weedy's thing was probably just a little bit too much for ME to personally do. That's where the "bold" statement came from.

It probably worked great though.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Bob is teh hot...I have never, ever cheated on anyone I was with...But Bob would be the exception..rawr?!>>

omg yesplz

[Weedmage Princess]

How so, Satira?

[Mint]

Originally posted by Weedmage Princess

Originally posted by Mint
Heh, I just found the picture that Bob posted in the picture thread. I would say he wouldnt get carded in any bar or strip club now. And he is handsome:

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!

Bob is teh hot...I have never, ever cheated on anyone I was with...But Bob would be the exception..rawr?!

I KNOW. Unfortunately, (even though he was the one that posted it in the picture thread saying it was him) he claims now that it is not him. I am sad.

[Weedmage Princess]

Not him?! OH NO!! Say it ain't so, Bob! SAY IT ISN'T SO!!!

[Reyek]

MMM pancakes. What if the pancakes were made by you? would that be bad?

[Satira]

I think if I said I was going out on single dates with guys, the guy that I would be saying it to, in my case, would assume I was sleeping with them.

Regardless of what I said.

Bob is a nut.

[Weedmage Princess]

Originally posted by Lady Satira
I think if I said I was going out on single dates with guys, the guy that I would be saying it to, in my case, would assume I was sleeping with them.


If your guy doesn't go to strip clubs or anything like that, then the point is moot, so disregard...but if he does...let me ask you, do you think that's fair? He's doing what he wants to get his stimulation, and if you say you have a problem with it, you're labeled (in general, not necessarily by him..I don't know him so I won't make that statement) as "insecure", "untrusting" and "controlling" yet if you do the same thing, seeking some sort of stimulation elsewhere..you're automatically sleeping with the guy? Sounds a tad unfair to me, and it's undeniably a double standard.

Like I said...going to a male strip club does nothing for me. Some guy shaking their wang in my face wearing a speedo...nah, not my thing. Looking at responses from a few of the other ladies here, and from other women I know, a lot of women don't get from those places what guys get from strip joints. For me, my thing is romance, cause I'm a sap. Flowers, candy, being treated well, etc...that's what does it for me...*my* stimulation. But just because someone does those things on a date, doesn't mean I'm putting out...heh. It takes a lot more than sweet talk, and if I'm involved, it's just not gonna happen ;)

[CrystalTears]

I understand why Satira would be confused about that, because getting a lap dance from some chick at a bar is NOT the same thing as going on a date.

He's never going to go out with her, doesn't have her phone number, doesn't know where she lives, doesn't even know her name, never going to speak to her again, isn't ever going to have sex with her, he's just looking at her and getting his jollies. Now, going on a date is a separate issue. You're going out alone with someone else. You're having intimate time together. You're sharing moments, feelings, passion, even if you're not having sex. You're creating a relationship. That's an entirely different issue. You could inevitably fall in love with that guy you're on a date with, and where does that leave him? All because you didn't want some chick shaking her fake boobs in his face?

I just don't see it the same. One is about eye candy, the other one is about a relationship. At that point it's about getting even because you couldn't control your man into doing what you wanted him to do. Why women can't accept the men they are with for who they are and what they enjoy is beyond me. It's very different in my eyes.

[Edited on 3/7/2004 by CrystalTears]

[Myshel]

I went to a male strip club once, it was a bachelorette party. Didn't do a thing for me. The guys were good looking and a few quite obviously gay. But my ideal of man is not on a stage swinging his sock. A lot of the women I was with at this party really got into it, especially the older ones. Since I was not having a great time, one of the older woman paid one of the guys to give me "special treatment", which meant he picked me up and put me on a stool and then spread my legs to dance between them rubbing on me. I was embarrassed and pissed, and when I pushed him away, he got more aggressive, I had to get up and leave. Which made me a bad sport. I would never go to another one, how debasing and low class. Shudders at the memory.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<he claims now that it is not him.>>

I never claimed such a thing.

[Myshel]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
<<he claims now that it is not him.>>

I never claimed such a thing.

And your final answer is ? Is it or isn't you?:?:

[Bobmuhthol]

No comment.

[Myshel]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
No comment.

I never thought you a coward Bob.:duh:

[Weedmage Princess]

Hmm. I hear what you're saying, CT...I just totally disagree. I can see your point about the whole intimacy even if you're not sleeping together thing, however I don't think something like that's a factor on one (first) date. Now yeah, if you were to like..continue dating the same person each time then I'd be more likely to agree with you, because you're establishing feelings and such there. But one date? Dinner and a movie? Going to an amusement park? Sporting event? Or just hanging out and having a good time? Nah, that's not the stuff falling in love and having deep experiences are made of. Atleast not for me. I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying and taking it much deeper than what it really is. A date and "dating" are two different things. I'm not talking about dating, I'm talking about "a date."

[Edited on 3-8-2004 by Weedmage Princess]

[Galleazzo]

Originally posted by Tendarian
Theres a pretty huge difference between dating someone and going to watch strippers though. A guy with a stripper grinding her booty up against his joint doesn't got much right to argue the distinction.

Heh, las ttime I was in a strip club was visiting a friend of mine who worked there cause we were going out to eat after. Pissed a bunch of guys that they were throwing wads of cash at Brenda but after her set she came over to my table. She was so cool too, pressed against my arm and shit. We were never involved (damn, she was a total babe) but dude, she had every man in there hating my guts. I loved it.

Not every stripper's a skank. Brenda was one. She danced to put herself through technical school down the street, and it was funny. I pick her up at the club, she's wearing a thong and boots, I pick her up at STCC, she's wearing hospital whites. Thing is she made 50 big ones a year dancing (and that's 10 years ago), she only did three nights a week, and where d'ya get that cash working part time anywhere?

:smilegrin:

[Madmox]

Oooo time for me to throw my 6 pence in i suppose. Denny's pancakes are one of those paradoxs in nature. For some reason no matter how much syrup you pour on them they absorb it ALL! I don't know that gives me the heebie jeebies. Wait.... Does that make Denny's Pancakes the blackholes of the culinary world? And if So does that make little Debbies Brownies the "dark matter" of the culinary world. Oh man im confused... What was your Question Spun? I've talked the thoughts right out of my head.
-Colin

Ooo afterthought. Why the hell does Denny's get so Damn Expensive in the middle of the night? And it seems like the portions get inversely smaller.... wait i can feel my business training kicking in.... not a bad business plan i think.

[SpunGirl]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
Why women can't accept the men they are with for who they are and what they enjoy is beyond me.


Eh, I don't feel this is an entirely fair statement, and I know it's kind of a general one, but I don't feel this is what I'm doing.

I don't mind him going to these places as long as that lapdancing-line isn't crossed. That's what I said the first two times, and that's what he promised me - and I trusted him. Now that trust has been broken, and I don't feel like I want to deal with the questions surrounding this again. I think that's fair.

It's no different than me going out with my friends and him being upset to find out I was grinding heavily with some guy on the dance floor or on top of the bar. In addition, he also admitted that he felt it wasn't a big deal for him to RECEIVE lap dances but wouldn't like it if I gave them out to guys I knew (or strangers at a bar, whatever). Now, what kind of double standard is that?

All that being said, he decided not to go. The night in question is going to end at the girlie bar, but for him, it's just going to end a little sooner. His decision.

-K

[CrystalTears]

Oh that statement wasn't aimed at you, so I apologize if it came off that way. I meant that there are quite a few women out there who try and change their mate and I don't think that's right. No I didn't feel that's what you were doing. :)


In addition, he also admitted that he felt it wasn't a big deal for him to RECEIVE lap dances but wouldn't like it if I gave them out to guys I knew (or strangers at a bar, whatever). Now, what kind of double standard is that?

Okay that's just wrong. That's a major double standard and I wouldn't go for that either. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Weedie, that makes a lot more sense. I guess I was looking more into the "dating" aspect and not just "a date". I suppose that would work for some, however definitely not for me. It's just not something I would have ever considered doing since I wasn't much of a dater, and I usually considered people I went on a date with as potentials. Going out with friends was just going out with friends.

I personally didn't (still don't) feel comfortable being out alone with a man unless we were good friends. As much as I am a flirt, I'm very faithful to my fiance and don't feel it's right to be alone with a man I barely know.

[Edited on 3/10/2004 by CrystalTears]

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by CrystalTears


In addition, he also admitted that he felt it wasn't a big deal for him to RECEIVE lap dances but wouldn't like it if I gave them out to guys I knew (or strangers at a bar, whatever). Now, what kind of double standard is that?

Okay that's fucked up and wrong. That's a major double standard and I wouldn't go for the either. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Actually, it's not a double standard and I'd be against it as well. If he gets a lap dance, she should be able to get a lap dance. That's fine. But no way in hell would I want my SO /giving/ someone else a lap dance.

Raven

[CrystalTears]

Bah, getting a lap dance, giving a lap dance. It's the same thing to me. :shrug:

[SpunGirl]

Why not, Raven? All it is, is the flip side of the coin.

-K

[Ravenstorm]

It's the difference between watching porn and starring in it. To a lesser degree of course. Not quite an exact analogy but close.

Raven

[SpunGirl]

For me, watching the porn would be equivalent to watching the dancers. That's allright. But actually having contact there is another story. It doesn't matter which "role" you play in the porn or the lapdance - blowjober, blowjobee, dancer or dancee - it's all the same. You're still participating.

-K

[Galleazzo]

Originally posted by SpunGirl
It's no different than me going out with my friends and him being upset to find out I was grinding heavily with some guy on the dance floor or on top of the bar. In addition, he also admitted that he felt it wasn't a big deal for him to RECEIVE lap dances but wouldn't like it if I gave them out to guys I knew (or strangers at a bar, whatever). Now, what kind of double standard is that?

A shitty one. Tell him the next time he gets a lap dance you're gonna give a friend of his a hand job.

[Bobmuhthol]

And make sure I'm his friend before you say that.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Galleazzo
A shitty one. Tell him the next time he gets a lap dance you're gonna give a friend of his a hand job.

Are you saying a lap dance is the same as a hand job? You're serious?

[Galleazzo]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
Are you saying a lap dance is the same as a hand job? You're serious?

Pretty fricking much. Some naked gal's wiggling in my lap, grinding her crotch against my joint, and rubbing her boobs in my face. Hand job's fucking clinical and chaste compared to that.

[SpunGirl]

It cracks me up how you call it your "joint."

-K

[Caiylania]

It depends on the guy, most that I know would agree that lapdancers (especially good ones) work it enought that one guy even admitted having to run into the bathroom to finish the job so his pants didn't get dirty.

I would have a problem with that if it was my husband.

[SpunGirl]

If that's the case, forget threatening to GIVE a handjob. I want something else.

-K

[CrystalTears]

I'll just chuck it up to me being weird because I don't have a problem with that. Porn movies, magazines, titty bars, lapdances.. none of that bothers me.

It would only bother me if he fell in love with said stripper and wanted to run off with her because he no longer loved me, and that can happen anywhere with any chick.

Just as long as he brings home that appetite to eat at home, I'm a happy girl. I worry more about the girls he works with or goes to school with on a daily basis where he has the time to develop relationships. Chicks that make a living looking good and swinging their boobs? Nah.

[Caiylania]

Originally posted by CrystalTearsI worry more about the girls he works with or goes to school with on a daily basis where he has the time to develop relationships. Chicks that make a living looking good and swinging their boobs? Nah.

I agree. They are a bigger threat if a man is going to wander.

But you can trust your man, and still be hurt that he's letting other women do that. It's all perspective I guess.

[CrystalTears]

It all depends on trust. Spungirl was having a problem, not really because he was doing it, but because he wasn't being honest to her for doing it and then saying he won't.

I highly trust my fiance because he's never given me reason not to. But then we share everything. Porn, titty bars, cyber games, I'm just as guilty of getting all turned on about something as he is, so to deny him of looking at something pleasing is not fair. If I'd like to indulge, I want him to be able to to as well.

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
But then we share everything. Porn, titty bars, cyber games, I'm just as guilty of getting all turned on about something as he is, so to deny him of looking at something pleasing is not fair. If I'd like to indulge, I want him to be able to to as well.

A pity you're not a guy. Even if you are old. :lol:

Raven

[CrystalTears]

I'm not old damnit!

[Skirmisher]

Thats what I keep saying.:shrug:

[Caiylania]

Old people get it on??

<ducks and hides>

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Caiylania
Old people get it on??

<ducks and hides>

5-8 times a week and in the most shameful places.

Wife's office, drive in, class reunion, thanks giving at the folks, broom closets ... and many more than I care to list.

[Weedmage Princess]

When will you people realize that old is 60+ ?!

[Caiylania]

Damn, You go Tsa'ah!

[Myshel]

I'm a firm believer in the look but not touch rule. If he can abide by that then you can work it out. But if he doesn't Spun I agree you have a problem.

[Galleazzo]

Originally posted by SpunGirl
It cracks me up how you call it your "joint."
:D

A whole bunch of years ago National Lampoon did a cartoon, two computer-generated ASCII drawings of a naked man and a naked woman. Only the computer was programmed to print out the body parts the size proportionate to the number of known euphemisms the body parts had. The guy's schlong was as big as the entire rest of his body put together.

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Weedmage Princess
When will you people realize that old is 60+ ?!

Heh. Tell that one to my mother! :lol:

HarmNone, she with the hot mother

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Weedmage Princess
When will you people realize that old is 60+ ?!

Not before you realize that old is 30+

[Weedmage Princess]

I'm not 30, I'm 28 SO DIE WEZAS

[Galleazzo]

Man, I'm closer to 60 than 28. Frigging scary.