Different Ways To Ensure The Longevity Of Gemstone 4

[Lord Paco]

Just curious, but what if Gemstone 4 was to go ahead and lower it's regular subscription price to say, $10.00 a month? Thats only $120.00 a year. I would pay that.

That might bring some more people to the game. Might help a little bit.

A second option would be to go even further, and lower the normal subscription price from $15.00 to $5.00 a month. Now you're talking. The fact is that there are some really good FREE MUDS springing up all over the place. MUDS themselves will never die. It's just a fact. There will always be people who love to play MUDS. The problem with Gemstone 4, however, is that it's a great MUD, but it charges too much now for it's monthly fees. And the World Wide Recession is not helping things. If it lowered it's basic subscription to $5.00 a month I guarantee you that people will jump on board. More people and in the end the company would probably make the same as they are making now with less people paying more.

The last option, and I don't think it bodes too well for those who get payed By Simutronics for Gemstone 3, is to go ahead and eventually just make Gemstone 4 free of charge. Just like some of the other MUDS like those over at http://www.ironrealms.com/index.php. I mean those are great muds over there, and as far as I know they don't charge anything. It was only a matter of time before people started creating MUDS that were just as good as Gemstone 4, so why not just catch up with the times and make it free? That would obviously increase the player base by an enormous amount. I've had people tell me that Gemstone 4 looks really cool, and that they want to play it, but that they don't have the money. I mean is this really what Gemstone 4 is all about at this point? It should be available for all to play. Because it really is a staple of MUDS.

Instead of everyone talking about Gemstone 4 dying, why don't we (those who love the game) talk about different ways of keeping it going? I mean really, there is absolutely NO REASON whatsoever that Gemstone 4 should ever have to go away. Unless computers become obsolete or the power grid gets knocked out by some kind of disaster or something. Other than that, if I was SIMU corp, I would never take it away from those who wish to play it. That would just be a waste.

[Jahira]

Making money >>>>>> making small gemstone population happy

Hoping that dropping prices will increase the amount of sales is not a risk they are willing to take. Making it free? Why would you do that if people are already willing to pay for it. Doesn't make business sense.

[Lord Paco]

Making money >>>>>> making small gemstone population happy

Hoping that dropping prices will increase the amount of sales is not a risk they are willing to take. Making it free? Why would you do that if people are already willing to pay for it. Doesn't make business sense.

Business sense? There are less and less people playing gemstone 4 every two years or so. Maybe it's dropping at an even faster rate now due to the recession everyone is experiencing. I am not sure, thats for those who run the books for Gemstone 4 to know about.

I mean, did you even ready any of my suggestions? Business sense? If 200 more people drop from the game than I don't know how much Gemstone 4 has already made over the years for Simu but I can guarantee that Simu won't be racking in the dough at that point. And, that the game won't be as much fun. The lower the player base, the less fun the game becomes. This is my view anyways. And if the player base is almost non-existant, than that's even worse.

Besides...like I said..I presented 3 different options to SAVE gemstone 4. Every other person I see on these boards talking about Gemstone 4 usually only say that it is a dying game. DYING. They don't offer any solutions for saving it. Thats what I'm saying. SIMU is not stupid. They know their player base is dropping and dropping. The free option was the very last option I presented. It was last for a reason, it was last because if nothing else works to save Gemstone 4, than thats what needs to be done in my opinion. Starcraft and games like that still have a pretty fairly large player base and thats because the game is free. It never really loses too much because people play it all the time in different countries, etc. The gemstone 4 player base is NOT expanding at the moment, it is declining, with no end in sight. This does not need to be the fate of the player base. Perhaps the fate of the current pricing, but not the player base. The Gemstone 4 player base I believe could be saved in a number of different ways. 3 of which I listed above.

Your suggestions for expanding the player base? And for keeping the game "alive"?

[complac3ncy]

I truly am surprised that GSIV has held out as long as it has. I'm not saying this because of a particular GM that I hate or because of something that happened or out of spite whatsoever, because I still enjoy the game to this day and have kept my account since the mid 90's.

The problem with Gemstone IV and MUD's in general is that they are a dying breed, IMO.

Take a look at what the average RPG options were back then in the mid 90's...there were no MMO's from SOE/Blizzard back then. Half of the people or more that even had internet in the 90's had America Online, and GSIV benefited from that greatly, and declined with the decline of AOL.

The people that enjoy gemstone IV are the people that enjoyed paper and pencil games like D&D and rolemaster. FAR less people are playing those games these days because unlike the 80's and 90's, we have crazy graphics processors and computers that run them for fairly cheap. Anyone remember paying 5k for a computer? I do.

It is a trend. Back in the Mid 90's when dragonrealms / GSIII came out it could boast thousands of players at a time because at THAT time it was arguably the best online roleplaying game. Anyone remember the little popups that you would get saying to vote GSIII as the best roleplaying game? I do.
That was when GSIII had a deep community, when lots of players were creating profession guides, maps, spoilers, etc. Thats when I used to log into GSIII simply to roleplay and "chat" and "hang out". How many of you do that anymore?

That was the generation of MUD's, this is the generation of graphic MMO's, it's simple. It's not because the game sucks and I definately do not beleive that it is because of the subscription fee because people will pay $15 a month. Hell I know people that pay $8 for a pack of ciggarettes every day, it's an addiction.

-Tenalin

[Celephais]

This thread comes up every now and then. They're not lowering the prices because people will pay them, look at how paid events sell out (CCF). Gemstone doesn't cost them all too much to run (free staff, or paid in perks, etc). It's just free money coming in.

The only good suggestion that has any reasonable chance I've heard for saving gemstone is to advertise. But that would go against the first point, that it's a money out, no money in cash cow.

[Lord Paco]

I truly am surprised that GSIV has held out as long as it has. I'm not saying this because of a particular GM that I hate or because of something that happened or out of spite whatsoever, because I still enjoy the game to this day and have kept my account since the mid 90's.

The problem with Gemstone IV and MUD's in general is that they are a dying breed, IMO.

Take a look at what the average RPG options were back then in the mid 90's...there were no MMO's from SOE/Blizzard back then. Half of the people or more that even had internet in the 90's had America Online, and GSIV benefited from that greatly, and declined with the decline of AOL.

The people that enjoy gemstone IV are the people that enjoyed paper and pencil games like D&D and rolemaster. FAR less people are playing those games these days because unlike the 80's and 90's, we have crazy graphics processors and computers that run them for fairly cheap. Anyone remember paying 5k for a computer? I do.

It is a trend. Back in the Mid 90's when dragonrealms / GSIII came out it could boast thousands of players at a time because at THAT time it was arguably the best online roleplaying game. Anyone remember the little popups that you would get saying to vote GSIII as the best roleplaying game? I do.
That was when GSIII had a deep community, when lots of players were creating profession guides, maps, spoilers, etc. Thats when I used to log into GSIII simply to roleplay and "chat" and "hang out". How many of you do that anymore?

That was the generation of MUD's, this is the generation of graphic MMO's, it's simple. It's not because the game sucks and I definately do not beleive that it is because of the subscription fee because people will pay $15 a month. Hell I know people that pay $8 for a pack of ciggarettes every day, it's an addiction.

-Tenalin

Right but I disagree with you. I believe and know for a fact that $15 every month for people who have no job due to the recession is an expense they can do without. No job means no money. No money means no $15 every month for Gemstone 4. It's easier to scrape together $5 or even $7-10 a month than it is to scrape together $15 every month. Now just exactly how much easier it is is up for debate, but the fact thats it's easier can not be debated.

For kids who don't have any money whatsoever, and who might play gemstone 4 (trust me I seen some of the free games these kids play at the library and Gemstone 4 would be a 100% increase in terms of quality) can't because they don't have a credit card and their parents wouldn't think of getting it for them unless they had already played Gemstone 4 before themselves. Many of the teenagers today are out of work as well. And can't pay for Gemstone 4 either. I saw on the news that what was it like 70% of teens in the United States (The country I live in) are not working. Thats a HUGE amount.

MUDS will not die anyways. This one may be dying, but MUDS themselves will never die. How do I know this? Because board games never died. Atari never died. Good quality things never die. No matter what their opposition. There will always be a fanbase. Some of them bigger than others.

[HSB]

I have to admit I was blown away by how fast CCF sold out... and it makes me wonder what's going to happen when EG tickets go on sale. Simu has a small, but extremely dedicated fan base. I see 250ish people logged in at a time (218 at the moment), and do the math. Assuming none of those people have premium accounts, that's 3,737.50 a month coming in. And, as has been brought up time and again... they spend hardly any money on this game. The GMs work for free (at least I think they all do... might be a couple drawing pay, I suppose, though), the game lives on their servers, and they just pull in the money. Why should they feel pressure to make any drastic change?

Factor in the money from pay events (the math from CCF was impressive), the money from premium subscribers, and the fact that a large portion of their subscribers who try to walk away from the game come back at some point, and they've got a fairly stable product on their hands.

That being said, sure they're worried about the dwindling population. That's why they opted to remove the counter on their site proclaiming the number of people logged in at any given time. But I doubt they're worried enough to change their prices, or even make it free. It's a for-profit venture, and right now... it's generating a pretty good profit margin.

[Tolwynn]

So with the supposition that people generally can't afford things, you're expecting a price cut would magically at least triple the userbase overnight.

After all, they'd have to do that just to make the exact same amount they're making now.

[zhelas]

it makes me wonder what's going to happen when EG tickets go on sale.

I am sure those auction tickets will sell out within 5 minutes.

[Celephais]

Atari never died? I'm not sure how you're comparing them. The Atari 2600 certainly died. Yeah people buy them at yard sales, but Atari isn't making any more money off it (significant).

Atari as a company didn't die because it adapted and evolved with the market. Atari doesn't make games limited to 4kb anymore...

Any particular game you bring up for Atari didn't die because it evolved just the same, improved graphics, etc. People might play emulator games on occasion, but that market is dominated by piracy, Atari isn't making significant money on that.

[HSB]

I am sure those auction tickets will sell out within 5 minutes.

I just hope I can get to a verdammt computer when the sale starts so I can get mine.

[Lord Paco]

So with the supposition that people generally can't afford things, you're expecting a price cut would magically at least triple the userbase overnight.

After all, they'd have to do that just to make the exact same amount they're making now.

I don't recall stating that the userbase would triple overnight. That it would grow, is what I was hoping for.

[Lord Paco]

Atari never died? I'm not sure how you're comparing them. The Atari 2600 certainly died. Yeah people buy them at yard sales, but Atari isn't making any more money off it (significant).

Atari as a company didn't die because it adapted and evolved with the market. Atari doesn't make games limited to 4kb anymore...

Any particular game you bring up for Atari didn't die because it evolved just the same, improved graphics, etc. People might play emulator games on occasion, but that market is dominated by piracy, Atari isn't making significant money on that.

You missed my point entirely. My point is that there is still an Atari fanbase. And that people still play the Atari.

Just like people still play hop scotch, believe it or not. And people still use a jump rope.

Good quality MUDS are no different. People will always play them. Especially when they are cheap or are free.

[Tolwynn]

Hey, maybe GM should give their products away for free also. I bet everyone would drive one then, too.

[Celephais]

You missed my point entirely. My point is that there is still an Atari fanbase. And that people still play the Atari.

Just like people still play hop scotch, believe it or not. And people still use a jump rope.

Good quality MUDS are no different. People will always play them. Especially when they are cheap or are free.
... this is your arguement? Please, name one past time as broad as "MUDS" that has died in human history. People still flint-knap.

If you're going to make a point, have it not be stupid. My point is that acorns come from trees.

[kookiegod]

I don't recall stating that the userbase would triple overnight. That it would grow, is what I was hoping for.

From where?

Unless they advertise/market more (i.e. spend money) to get new customers/pull in old customers.

So you want them to cut their revenue stream AND spend money???

They also aren't some rinky dink MUD run from home. They got 5 games, plus an engine thats making some pretty good money, and the eventual HJ. They pay rent, salaries, fico, futa, the pipe, an electric bill, and everything else that goes into having an office.

You simply do not have a clue.

~Paul

[Warriorbird]

Yeah. Why worry about GS? We're all doomed anyways... thanks to your really old and boring prophecies of doom.

[Ker_Thwap]

I watched Dragon's Gate, the "then" longest running text based game on the internet, crash and burn.

It dropped to a population of about 200 hard core players, then someone got the bright idea to lower to price. They gained some new players, but a good percentage of them were griefers who ended up driving the hard core players away, hastening the decline of the game.

[Doughboy]

I don't follow the whole WTF GEMSTONEZZ DEAD thing. I do know thing. If I were in charge (Whatley?), I wouldn't change a fucking thing right now. It seems to generate damn good money without a large overhead. I'm sure the same could be said about DR. Business wise it works. With the engine that Paul was talking about, financially they're 100% successful right now. And in a failing economy all they need to do is have some pay event and blam, new money stream. The people that play the game on a regular basis seem to be willing to pay damn near anything for tickets for some of the pay events.

[Lord Paco]

From where?

Unless they advertise/market more (i.e. spend money) to get new customers/pull in old customers.

So you want them to cut their revenue stream AND spend money???

They also aren't some rinky dink MUD run from home. They got 5 games, plus an engine thats making some pretty good money, and the eventual HJ. They pay rent, salaries, fico, futa, the pipe, an electric bill, and everything else that goes into having an office.

You simply do not have a clue.

~Paul

Why do you only focus on my third suggestion? The first two did not have anything to do with making it free. I only said that would be a last resort.

If there ends up being only 25-50 players in the game in 2 years, then what the hell is the point of paying for it? Mine as well just go free at that point.

I hope that isn't the case. In fact I hope the player base grows, somehow. And doesn't shrink anymore.

But this thread was created for suggestions to keep it going. Does anyone else have actual suggestions on how to grow the userbase?

And I suppose we should all ask ourselves this question. What would SIMU do if the game got down to 50 players? And most if not all of those players had only a regular subscription? Would SIMU decide to throw away Gemstone 4 all together? Or would they at least consider somehow keeping it going? What do you guys think about that scenario? I'm curious....

[HSB]

Advertise. Which they can't or won't do. Other than that, word of mouth. Quick, go tell all your friend!

[CrystalTears]

Advertise. Which they can't or won't do. Other than that, word of mouth. Quick, go tell all your friend!
According to Solomon, they do advertise, you just don't notice it because you play and don't keep an eye on it. It's going unnoticed by the current player but it's apparently working.

Swear to God he's said that many times.

[HSB]

I would dearly love to see the numbers, you know? Show me how many subscribers you have... how many you've lost, how many new ones you've gained... that kinda thing. Not that it's gonna happen, but still...

[ZeP]

This thread comes up every now and then. They're not lowering the prices because people will pay them, look at how paid events sell out (CCF). Gemstone doesn't cost them all too much to run (free staff, or paid in perks, etc). It's just free money coming in.

I'm going to read on in hopes Paco has posted some charts or maps but we already have the correct answer right here.

[Lord Paco]

I'm going to read on in hopes Paco has posted some charts or maps but we already have the correct answer right here.

I was actually just about to start the Native American section. Head on over.

[Androidpk]

Advertising costs money and why spend money when they're making money now? The root of the problem is that Simu is run my humans, who are known for the problem of being very near sighted. The solution would be to replace the current owners with a different species. Aliens or dolphins would do just nicely.

[Lord Paco]

Advertising costs money and why spend money when they're making money now? The root of the problem is that Simu is run my humans, who are known for the problem of being very near sighted. The solution would be to replace the current owners with a different species. Aliens or dolphins would do just nicely.

This thread is not just about how we can keep them making money though. It's also about how we can stop the userbase from going down the drain. Which I believe is a much bigger problem than how much money they are currently making.

[StrayRogue]

That would be easy: Make the game less "balanced" and thus less boring.

[Androidpk]

The point I was trying to make is that Simu, in their short sightedness, does not seem interested in raising the playerbase population because they are happy with what they have now. Spending more on advertising and actually making real changes to the game on a timely schedule would do a lot to help. Maybe they're saving up a whole bunch of changes (monks, mining/smelting, new towns/areas) for a Gemstone V release.

[longshot]

Why do you only focus on my third suggestion? The first two did not have anything to do with making it free. I only said that would be a last resort.

If there ends up being only 25-50 players in the game in 2 years, then what the hell is the point of paying for it? Mine as well just go free at that point.



I feel dumber having read your post.

Please don't have children...

[Tolwynn]

Honestly, MO probably has more subscribers than you're suggesting for the impending catastrophic demise of GemStone. Gem would have to shed something like 99+% of its userbase to hit those levels.

Given your penchant for spinning doomsday scenarios from numbers largely pulled from your ass, perhaps you should consider seeking political office?

[Warriorbird]

David Whatley is not short sighted. GS, at current levels, functions like renewal income for him.

He'll eventually find another crop of people to write him an engine for free so he can license that and never release HJ too.

[Kitsun]

The point I was trying to make is that Simu, in their short sightedness, does not seem interested in raising the playerbase population because they are happy with what they have now. Spending more on advertising and actually making real changes to the game on a timely schedule would do a lot to help. Maybe they're saving up a whole bunch of changes (monks, mining/smelting, new towns/areas) for a Gemstone V release.

Meh. Making a timely release schedule wouldn't add to the population, it only appeases the current players. Honestly, from what I've seen, players are never satisfied with release schedules no matter how fast. Eventually you hit a pace of release where you begin making changes for the sake of changing and casual players begin to feel completely out of touch with the game as it evolves too rapidly for them to keep up. Faster changes might help retention but arguably, if you look at any release, there's a solid percentage of people who threaten to quit/bitch/moan because of any change.

[Celephais]

This thread is not just about how we can keep them making money though. It's also about how we can stop the userbase from going down the drain. Which I believe is a much bigger problem than how much money they are currently making.
Your grasp on reality is tenuous at best, isn't it?

Honestly, don't you ever get the feeling that you're missing something, when no one else will agree with you.

[complac3ncy]

I seriously doubt that a subscription fee is preventing the GSIV community from growing.

$15 a month is pretty cheap entertainment for 1 month. Hell, nowadays the only time I return to Gemstone is when i'm in a money crunch...when I can't go fishing or skiing or to the bar on the weekends or on a vacation or whatever because a shitstorm hit my checkbook.

Fact is there used to be thousands of people in GS/DR, now there is not. If you were to survey those that left I bet close to 3/4 of them now play a graphics mmorpgs.

Can't blame them really, unlike SOE and Blizzard to name a couple, SIMU releases new content and updates way too slow to keep people interested. I notice every year when Simu comes out with there "Plans for the new year" threads and stuff that the population increases for a short amount of time, untill people realize how many of the plans will be met.

They can have 300 subscribers a month and still make money, but it isn't contributing to the grander scheme of things. Of those 300 i'd bet my neck paycheck that 1/3 of them or more are zombies. Who wants to wait around for rogues to pick your boxes or mages to spell ya up when you can do it yourself at a table? For the person beginning that doesn't know anyone and is trying to find a place for themselves within the community, it is frustrating to run around and ask zombies and powerhunters for a disk or something.

I know I get frusterated when I go into a pretty tough environment in Temple Nelemar to get rewarded with some nice heavy boxes but only to toss them down the pipe because there are no rogues to open them up for me.

Someone would have to get some insider information on what the company's plan is for the game to get me involved as much as I used to be. I want to know if they plan on investing more money into the game. Investing, whether it's more advertisement, more developers or whatever it takes to pump some life and eye candy back into the game is the only thing that will enlarge the player base. my .02

[Warriorbird]

The plan? Let it slowly slide away into nothing. I'm sure it has a number of more years left.

Meanwhile, Whatley will utilize more free coders to make him money.

Pretty brilliant, really.

[Lord Paco]

The plan? Let it slowly slide away into nothing.

I'd hate to see that happen. Personally, I love the game.

[septus]

I'd have to agree, the two biggest things I can see that would increase the user base is 1) more advertising. (I think banner ads on rpg/gaming webcomics with 60 day free trials would help) and 2) more new content. I guarantee you if monks ever come out you'll see a marked increase in old players coming back to try them.

Of course what do you do once those people start playing to keep them in the game? I'm sure simu has some crazy stats about how the average trial account logs in for half an hour then never returns. I know when there were 1k+ people it was easy to find someone to hang out with and hunt things with. You also had a lot of conflict with people which brings you closer to the game. It's not as easy when there's 350 people on and you rarely see anyone that level. (Of course I'm not sure how the levels are distributed, I picked a lot of sub level 10 boxes whenever I was in the east tower..and this was a couple of months ago)

Community events are nice, but having friends to hang out with whenever you're playing are better. Take a look at wow. See how many people are in guilds and play because they feel needed. I don't particularly feel needed when someone just brings their rogue or empath or whoever in instead of interacting with someone.

I'm not sure GS can attract more people without already having more people. Or maybe if we start playing and not just idling at tables when we're not hunting. Maybe if we looked around and asked others for help instead of relying on our extra accounts for healing, picking, spells, blesses, etc.

[Dwarven Empath]

Only thing I would want changed on the whole account thing is.

I wish for my $15.00 a month I could have 7 free slots. So I could play all of the professions.

If I wanted to open up another account, it would be cheaper, say $10.00 per month.

Using the same method of payment and billing info, of course.

[Warriorbird]

People think me nigh unto a Communist in certain circles on these boards.

Why exactly would a company choose to make less money or devote their focus to a product that isn't likely to gain a new playerbase but is likely to retain addicts?

[DoctorUnne]

I saw the OP's rep and laughed my ass off. I've never seen so many red boxes.

[Corli]

I just wish they would lower the Premium package a little...

Yes, I pay the $40 a month, but I would rest a little easier if it were $30.

That being said... I still pay it. And other people still pay it. And we all keep playing like addicted zombie roltons.

Go die-hard GSIVers! Besides, I have to be loyal to GSIV. I met my (rl) fiance' on the game. We will both play until the final demise.

This didn't really have any suggestions for upping the player base, but at least the game hasn't died yet. Besides... when it was free (or cheaper) there were so many little punks running around acting like perpetual newbies, with horrible names and no intelligence... oh wait... they are still around. Nevermind.

[Lord Paco]

The bottom line is that if Simu doesn't figure out a way to market the game to the 8-14 year old range (the next generation of G4 players) then there is probably little hope of a major revival.

That generation will play just about anything if it sparks their interest. And the kids these days are highly intelligent. If SIMU doesn't start going to the places that these kids hang out at online, the websites, message boards, etc., and start making deals with those companies and sites, where if they will place an add that runs everyday on their site for G4 and in return SIMU will pay them a small amount and that if the kids from those sites sign up to play gemstone 4, through those sites, and in return they will receive a free 1 year membership, or a free 6 month membership, or some kind of deal like that, so that the kids can get used to that game for the time period, and that when their membership is up they will no doubt be addicted and come up with ways to pay for the game on their own (like pre-payed credit cards that anyone can get), then there won't ever be a serious revival in my opinion.

The next generation of gamers is always the key. Every major video game corporation knows this, every company in the world knows that they MUST market to the next generation in some way if they expect to be around for a long time.

It's not rocket science. But it HAS to be done if Gemstone 4 is to grow it's userbase exponentially (which benefits SIMU in the long run, because it will generate larger and larger profits instead of the slow trickle down of decreased profits that they must be experiencing at the moment, and have been experiencing for years now).

Thats what needs to be done. It SIMU can't figure out how to do what all other successful companies have done in the past, and are doing in the present, then yes, it can kiss Gemstone 4 goodbye over time because it is slowly digging it's own grave.

[Izzy]

Holy fast dive to 7 red squares, batman.

[Warriorbird]

I'm not sure Whatley cares, Paco.

His business model genius is getting people to do design work for him pretty much free.

[Lord Paco]

In fact, I'll be the first to start by recommending a company that I believe SIMU should try and advertise with...or somehow market Gemstone 4 through.

I use a pre-payed credit cared to access Gemstone 4. The one I use is from a company called ICE. They don't charge any monthly fees for using your card, and it's basicly the same process for loading a giftcard. Except it's better than a giftcard, because it can be used anywhere and for anything instead of just at a certain store or for certain company. Also, it has many additional features that a gift card doesn't have. Also, Kids can load it anytime they want (without needing an adult's permission). And adults can too of course. You can also withdrawl the money you have loaded onto it anytime you want, from an ATM anywhere in the country (for a $2.00 fee I believe). So it's easy access to your money when you want it. With this card, you can buy and sell things online as well, just as if you were using cash.

The companies website is http://www.icecardonline.com/. Nobody can be turned down for this card. Everyone qualifies.

So, G4 staff, if you are reading this thread (who knows if someone from there is) why not contact this company and kill two birds with one stone? You can advertise through them, and try and give a 3 month free membership for Gemstone 4 to anyone who signs up for their card and uses it to access Gemstone 4, and everyone comes out happy in the end. You get more players for your userbase, more money in the bank, and the ICE people get more customers for their cards. It's a perfect union.

And...if you don't want to advertise through that company, I am sure there are hundreds of other companies to choose from. But please do SOMETHING to try and bring up your userbase. I don't want to see the game die. I believe all people should have an escape from the real World once and awhile (this game keeps me sane at times and it's one of the only things that helps when I'm really frurstrated). All people should have a chance to play Gemstone 4, not just those who can qualify for a common credit card. And not just those with bank accounts.

When it comes to online gaming, I truly do believe that Pre-payed credit cards are the future. They just haven't gone mainstream yet. Be one of the first to catch the wave SIMU, you won't regret it in the end.

[ElvenFury]

this game keeps me sane at times

You're either mistaken, or not playing enough.

[Lord Paco]

You're either mistaken, or not playing enough.

lol.

[AnticorRifling]

I lol'd at the pre-paid (or pre-payed as you put it) credit cards being the wave of the future. Nothing says wave of the future like old technology. Hey guys make sure you get in on this computer company called Tandy I hear they are about to become bleeding edge.

[Lord Paco]

I lol'd at the pre-paid (or pre-payed as you put it) credit cards being the wave of the future. Nothing says wave of the future like old technology. Hey guys make sure you get in on this computer company called Tandy I hear they are about to become bleeding edge.

The reason that I believe Pre-payed credit cards are the future is because you can never be turned down for one, even with bad credit. And they charge 0% interest for using their card. Plus, you have to be 18 or above to apply for a credit card by yourself don't you? With a pre-payed card, you could be 7 years old and apply for one. And it does the exact same thing a regular credit card does (except for raising or lowering your credit score), but without all the hassle.

Try getting a good credit card that doesn't charge you any interest at all with really bad credit. In fact, try getting a credit card period if you have really bad credit, it's not very easy. Not to mention that a normal credit card can be shut off without your permission, where as with a Pre-payed card you hold all the power.

If Gemstone 4 can tap into that market, they will be rewarded for it. If they (pre-payed credit cards) ever catch on big time, SIMU can be one of the companies to ride the wave (as long as they are in bed with one of the companies in some way or another). And now is the time to get in with them, because the companies might be more willing to make a deal at the moment. Since there are currently a limited number of them around.

[AnticorRifling]

Why would I have bad, or really bad credit?

[Lord Paco]

Why would I have bad, or really bad credit?

Well maybe you don't but Bad credit affects millions of Americans (where I live). Not sure how many are affected where you live.

[ElvenFury]

Why pay off your credit card bills when the world's just going to end in 3 years? AMIRITE OR AMIRITE?!

[Lord Paco]

Why pay off your credit card bills when the world's just going to end in 3 years? AMIRITE OR AMIRITE?!

I never claimed that the entire World was coming to an end. Even with the Poles-Shifting, the Earth will still be here. Human beings on the other hand may not be, but we are pretty resiliant creatures, even if billions of us were to get wiped out, there is still a chance that some of us would remain.

[AnticorRifling]

Why pay off your credit card bills when the world's just going to end in 3 years? AMIRITE OR AMIRITE?! Careful making fun of bad credit is in the bible code and it clearly states that if you take the third letter from the third verse of the third chapter of every other book in the old testiment then randomly arrange them in a way that makes sense and supports your idea that if you die with credit debt you're going to go to hell/Wisconsin.

[ElvenFury]

Careful making fun of bad credit is in the bible code and it clearly states that if you take the third letter from the third verse of the third chapter of every other book in the old testiment then randomly arrange them in a way that makes sense and supports your idea that if you die with credit debt you're going to go to hell/Wisconsin.

Yes, but if you say Wisconsin in the old Aramaic it sounds like "hair emz forme".

I'll take my chances.

[grenthor]

for fucks sake the last thing gs needs is more 14 year olds.

[AnticorRifling]

Great point, none of us were ever teenagers playing GS.

[Fallen]

Great point, none of us were ever teenagers playing GS.

Eh, I know I was an epic Fuckface when I was playing at that age. Sure, I turned out ok, but I certainly didn't contribute anything to the gaming environment for quite a while

[AnticorRifling]

Everyone starts somewhere, not all of us stepped into the game environment as mature adults with the grenthor seal of approval apparently.

[Fallen]

Did you mean Grendeg?

[AnticorRifling]

I was referring to:


for fucks sake the last thing gs needs is more 14 year olds.

[Mana Goddess]

I never claimed that the entire World was coming to an end. Even with the Poles-Shifting, the Earth will still be here. Human beings on the other hand may not be, but we are pretty resiliant creatures, even if billions of us were to get wiped out, there is still a chance that some of us would remain.

Oh sweet tits, LOL forever.

[Whateva]

To those who mentioned that $15/month is not a lot...You're right.
But the point is not whether $15/month is good value compared to cigarettes etc.
It's whether $15/month is good value compared to other games.

Ideas for GS4's survival:
- Create a duplicate server that is free, but with restrictions. Eg max level is 30. Players can transfer their characters to the paid server to continue levelling.
- Create a single-player game with a storyline. This could either be online like G4 or offline. Either way, the idea is that players get used to the system and get attached to their characters, and can copy them into GS4 to continue playing.
- Part of the above point was to produce a single player game with a storyline, to attract players . Why not take it one step further: you already have a world with history and a good game mechanics. So why not raise venture capital, hire some artists etc. and make a stand-alone game. You can sell this via download for cash, and it attracts attention to GS4.
- To develop the last point, if you do not want to take the risk associated with game development, offer to license the system to software developers. License could be of the form of costing nothing initially but with Simu being entitled to a small share of any profits. In addition to possible sales revenue, you'll also attract attention to GS4.

[Ryvicke]

Good 2 year bump here dude.


Ideas for GS4's survival:
- Hold a months-long event releasing a bunch of text code into the game that people thought was like... never going to be in the game again. Watch playerbase go rabid. Collect $300 each night for 100 nights, $900 on weekend days.

[Ayamei]

I think the population has increased as games like WoW can berepetitive and eventually boring, graphics and population be damned. Some text mmorpgs are winning formulas.

[milesalpha]

I just wish they would lower the Premium package a little...

Yes, I pay the $40 a month, but I would rest a little easier if it were $30.

That being said... I still pay it. And other people still pay it. And we all keep playing like addicted zombie roltons.

Go die-hard GSIVers! Besides, I have to be loyal to GSIV. I met my (rl) fiance' on the game. We will both play until the final demise.

This didn't really have any suggestions for upping the player base, but at least the game hasn't died yet. Besides... when it was free (or cheaper) there were so many little punks running around acting like perpetual newbies, with horrible names and no intelligence... oh wait... they are still around. Nevermind.

This is the same sort of idea that I forwarded to Simu about premium. Premium membership could be broken down a little into different packages or allowing people to pick and choose from a list of options. Treat it the same way cable TV does with tiers adding more options and a higher price. Gold level gets everything, silver level you can pick x number of options and pay a little less. As an example I have no interest in the extra character slots, I have needed a GM about 3 times in 20 years so I don't care about a Premium line, but I want Mist Harbour access and the option to own a home. You could accelerate earnings like Premium points as an option. There's a variety of ways to do it.

As for 15.00 being too much, consider that it has not changed in over a decade, meaning that it has actually gotten cheaper over that period. And given the idiotic amounts people pay for their cell phones, regardless of economic conditions, I don't see GSIV as an onerous cost, it is actually exceptionally cheap (the cost of 1 and a half people going to a single movie) entertainment with a very low basic cost in needed equipment (how many online games in existence can still run on a 10 year old computer?)

[joehollywood]

As for 15.00 being too much, consider that it has not changed in over a decade, meaning that it has actually gotten cheaper over that period

So by this logic it would make sense for you to buy my old pentium 90 system for 1400 bucks? It hasn't changed in over a decade, so you're getting it cheaper! I'll knock off 100 bucks cause I don't have the original boxes so you're getting a double deal.

[milesalpha]

So by this logic it would make sense for you to buy my old pentium 90 system for 1400 bucks? It hasn't changed in over a decade, so you're getting it cheaper! I'll knock off 100 bucks cause I don't have the original boxes so you're getting a double deal.

No it doesn't because the computer is subject to depreciation and would be considered an asset. Gemstone is the cost of a entertainment service which has not risen in 14 years or so. I gave you the proper comparison, what did a movie ticket cost in 1998? What does it cost now? Concert tickets? Golf course green fees? Got it?

[phantasm]

Good ideas but you're a little late to the game. The PC already saved GS a few months ago. Better luck next time.

http://dvdmedia.ign.com/dvd/image/article/103/1030269/the-guild-seasons-one-two-20090930055722171-000.jpg

[joehollywood]

The pentium 90 does exactly the same things now as it did then. With software development and the increase of freeware/shareware/emulators, you can get better quality of goods on the same machine.

Gemstone does exactly the same things now as it did then. There are plenty of mechanics upgrades/changes but it's still the same game, with the same low quality of customer service/development rate.

In a world of RIFT, WoW, and a variety of other MMORPG's and other games, it looks very much like a P90 in this world. If not a 386. It's great to feel nostalgic for it. I feel the same. There is no reason to pay the same/more for a product with fewer features and lower quality than the modern day equivalents.

That all being said, I don't blame SIMU for leaving the price as is, as long as there are enough OCD folks such as ourselves that either continue to pay the price or occasionally pop back in just to get our fix. They have a very successful business model that rakes in a fair amount of money for very little work.

But, to compare it to the cutting edge of gaming, or even that it has value similar to newer games, is like saying their business model isn't similar to rolling homeless people for spare change.

[phantasm]

Free muds exist and they do have 2000+ players. Gemstone would dominate the free mud market.

[Jayvn]

I love how this retarded idea pops up every few years..

... if you have something..that requires almost no upkeep whatsoever..and still brings in revenue... why the fuck would you mess around with it and try to change it up this late in the game? I know they've got at least 300 accounts still going..and even if ALL of them were basic 1 char accounts.. they're making plenty of money off their old dinosaur server to keep it going...
For fuck sake.. wait till Modus Operandi dies before trying to bring up the END OF GEMSTONE thread again...
M.O. is still going... does anyone play it?..... i'm serious....

[milesalpha]

The pentium 90 does exactly the same things now as it did then. With software development and the increase of freeware/shareware/emulators, you can get better quality of goods on the same machine.

Gemstone does exactly the same things now as it did then. There are plenty of mechanics upgrades/changes but it's still the same game, with the same low quality of customer service/development rate.

In a world of RIFT, WoW, and a variety of other MMORPG's and other games, it looks very much like a P90 in this world. If not a 386. It's great to feel nostalgic for it. I feel the same. There is no reason to pay the same/more for a product with fewer features and lower quality than the modern day equivalents.

That all being said, I don't blame SIMU for leaving the price as is, as long as there are enough OCD folks such as ourselves that either continue to pay the price or occasionally pop back in just to get our fix. They have a very successful business model that rakes in a fair amount of money for very little work.

But, to compare it to the cutting edge of gaming, or even that it has value similar to newer games, is like saying their business model isn't similar to rolling homeless people for spare change.

To me you are still comparing a physical item that must be purchased to an artistic (of sorts) service that can only be rented.

I guess it depends on what you consider improvements, I don't consider graphics to be an enhancement to a game unless you are looking for a multuplayer extension to a nintendo game. If you want to actually roleplay you will waste your time trying in the graphic rpgs, while, for all its faults, there's still a solid core of role play here.

I am probably pretty hard core on the OCD though. If it were up to me they would stop wasting time on Shattered (remember when certain players said it would surpass Prime and become epic?) or things like Monks. I would be appealing to those hard core geeks who still like to roleplay but within a challenging setting (which Gemstone is really not any more). Bring back things like breakage, loss of equipment during death. Start concentrating more on getting people involved, at all levels. Junk the adventurer's guild, and all the character guilds. Replace the latter with player run models. Junk the Gift, it makes no sense. I'll be really sacreligious and say I'd love to see Lich blocked, I tried it and it took most of the fun out of the game for me (it's fun to occasionally immolate myself due to stupidity, keeps me thinking).

Oh I realize I am a minority in this thinking, if not an island of one. But this is my twentieth year of wandering around this game (and I started at 32, god I'm getting old) and I have seen a lot of changes and improvements (and a lot of devolution too). Much more than merely the server crashing if 50 players came on at once. I hang around in hope of it getting really good again and every so often it does.

As to the Simu business model, I really wasn't aware they had one. Everything they do of lat seems rather half-assed and poorly thought out. Right off the bat I have never gotten a general email from Simu, announcing something like Droughtman or such. They have a huge mailing list available to them and they don't use it.

But you're right, I'll be here to the end, them or me. If it's them, I guess we'll be able to say we "won" the game.

[Tsk Tsk]

I love how this retarded idea pops up every few years..

... if you have something..that requires almost no upkeep whatsoever..and still brings in revenue... why the fuck would you mess around with it and try to change it up this late in the game? I know they've got at least 300 accounts still going..and even if ALL of them were basic 1 char accounts.. they're making plenty of money off their old dinosaur server to keep it going...
For fuck sake.. wait till Modus Operandi dies before trying to bring up the END OF GEMSTONE thread again...
M.O. is still going... does anyone play it?..... i'm serious....

I'm sure they have much more than "at least 300" I've seen 500 logged in at once recently and that's just gs.

[Ayamei]

The other night there was 760 logged in at the same time, I think simu is content with its business at the moment at least.