New archer

[Lumi]

I made a baby bardic archer, human.



Level 0 Stats for Human Bard

Strength (STR): 80
Constitution (CON): 20
Dexterity (DEX): 90
Agility (AGI): 30
Discipline (DIS): 90
Aura (AUR): 80
Logic (LOG): 100
Intuition (INT): 70
Wisdom (WIS): 20
Influence (INF): 80

>ski
(at level 3), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 40 8
Ranged Weapons.....................| 50 10
Physical Fitness...................| 25 5
Dodging............................| 25 5
Harness Power......................| 15 3
Perception.........................| 50 10

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 2

Spell Lists
Bard...............................| 3


The stats are obviously going to change before my thirty-day window is up. I was just going for maximum offensive capability (without resorting to the "2hander for thirty days" method...I do like archery).

I mostly looking for comments on my training. Anything I'm blatantly doing wrong? I'll pick up Air lore and probably Telepathy somewhere down the line, and possibly ambushing (I'm not sniping at all).

[DaCapn]

I'd try to post some level 20 goals or something. Any comments on how you're doing at level 3 will be out of date within a couple hours. Get feedback on that and just migrate to the closest progression before your 30 days is up.

[Lumi]

I'd try to post some level 20 goals or something. Any comments on how you're doing at level 3 will be out of date within a couple hours. Get feedback on that and just migrate to the closest progression before your 30 days is up.

Yeah, it's true. I'm at level 7 now, hopefully 8 by the end of the night.

I have also decided to add locksmithing to the plan (I had a lot of extra PTPs and was already 2x'ing Perception, so why not?). The plan currently looks like this:

1x Armor
2x Ranged
1x PF
1x Dodging
1x Harness
1x Disarm
2x Pick Locks
2x Perception
1x Spells

How's that look?

[Stretch]

Why Human?

[MrTastyHead]

Honestly, I would drop dodging some and try to 2x disarming myself. It's annoying as shit trying to open your own boxes at lower levels with 1x disarm and blowing yourself up after hunts, but the dodging won't make much difference in the time it would take to bump it back up.

Other than that, which is personal opinion, looks pretty standard. Not really a whole lot of options with a bardic archer/picker for a good amount of levels. It'll be a solid and effective character.

[Lumi]

Why Human?

Why not? :)

Truthfully, I was looking at some of the other races, but I wanted good stats for both a bard and an archer, and it seemed like I couldn't find another race that had any bonuses to a relevant stat without having a penalty to another. Humans had a STR bonus and no penalties, so it worked for me.


Honestly, I would drop dodging some and try to 2x disarming myself. It's annoying as shit trying to open your own boxes at lower levels with 1x disarm and blowing yourself up after hunts, but the dodging won't make much difference in the time it would take to bump it back up.

Other than that, which is personal opinion, looks pretty standard. Not really a whole lot of options with a bardic archer/picker for a good amount of levels. It'll be a solid and effective character.

I guess I could give that a go. Honestly, I'm more worried about MISSING the trap entirely than disarming it. I have 404, too, so... /shrug.

I'll give it a shot and see how it goes.

I need to buy some nice 4x gear.

Edit: Any advice on stat placement? Also, what's the archery DS formula?

[Jaimaltz]

Why not? :)

Truthfully, I was looking at some of the other races, but I wanted good stats for both a bard and an archer, and it seemed like I couldn't find another race that had any bonuses to a relevant stat without having a penalty to another. Humans had a STR bonus and no penalties, so it worked for me.

Human should make a decent archer, but bear in mind that the ideal amount of strength bonus to have is 50 so you can fire aimed longbow shots in 3 seconds. The next best amount is 40 so you can at least shoot an aimed composite bow in 3 seconds. A giant, dwarf, or half krolvin can do that with wizard strength, and a Giant can do the 40 bonus without outside spells. Out of those 3 races, the giant only has a -5 penalty to aura and a bonus to influence, which I feel evens out (especially since you won't be doing a "pure" route since you already have one of those characters).

Being a human archer is sort of like deciding to make a giant lancer - it's not easy hitting the ideal speed.



I guess I could give that a go. Honestly, I'm more worried about MISSING the trap entirely than disarming it. I have 404, too, so... /shrug.

I'll give it a shot and see how it goes.

I did a locksmith bard for quite a while, 1x disarm/2x pick lets you open the vast majority of your own boxes and see all the traps. (I would pick through glyphs and green/blue scarabs that were too tough to disarm). As you advance past level 30, start putting any extra points into more ranks in disarm, and save all lockpicking/disarming traps enhancives you find. Picking for the public can be disappointing at times because you'll occasionally have to tell them the box has a trap that's too hard for you.

Edit: Any advice on stat placement? Also, what's the archery DS formula?[/QUOTE]

Make your strength high right away. You'd already be using a relatively weak race, and one of the main benefits of archery is a very short firing time. Don't put dexterity (locksmithing and direct ranged bonus stat) or discipline (helps with aiming) too low.

[MrTastyHead]

I know that ranged, ambush, perception, and dodge tie into archery defense, but I don't believe I've ever seen an actual formula. Just looked for a few minutes and couldn't find one.

A human bard can end up with 76 intuition and the rest all 100's and the initials actually aren't THAT bad. What's the level goal, and will he have access to a fixstat at some point?

[MrTastyHead]

I did a locksmith bard for quite a while, 1x disarm/2x pick lets you open the vast majority of your own boxes and see all the traps.

It may depend on how long you wait to start picking your own boxes or something, but that certainly hasn't been my experience. Checked twice and still got hit by enough traps on my own boxes to make me prefer doubling early on. Especially scarabs. Nothing says you can't double disarming for the first, say, 15 levels, then let it fall back as you get dodge up to 1x and pick it back up.

I agree with a giant making the best bard archer, by the way. Strength bonus for firing speed (and no RT LOOT!) and influence bonus for lullabye.

[Jaimaltz]

It may depend on how long you wait to start picking your own boxes or something, but that certainly hasn't been my experience. Checked twice and still got hit by enough traps on my own boxes to make me prefer doubling early on. Especially scarabs. Nothing says you can't double disarming for the first, say, 15 levels, then let it fall back as you get dodge up to 1x and pick it back up.


That's good advice, having 30 disarm ranks (or even 40) ASAP will also help you learn from the traps, and you wouldn't need the dodge ranks too badly until after that point anyway.

[Lumi]

Human should make a decent archer, but bear in mind that the ideal amount of strength bonus to have is 50 so you can fire aimed longbow shots in 3 seconds. The next best amount is 40 so you can at least shoot an aimed composite bow in 3 seconds. A giant, dwarf, or half krolvin can do that with wizard strength, and a Giant can do the 40 bonus without outside spells. Out of those 3 races, the giant only has a -5 penalty to aura and a bonus to influence, which I feel evens out (especially since you won't be doing a "pure" route since you already have one of those characters).

A maxed human's STR bonus is 30, and I plan on using 1035 to knock 2-3 seconds off as well.


Being a human archer is sort of like deciding to make a giant lancer - it's not easy hitting the ideal speed.

Fair enough. I have made my bed, though, and I am prepared to sleep in it :)


I did a locksmith bard for quite a while, 1x disarm/2x pick lets you open the vast majority of your own boxes and see all the traps. (I would pick through glyphs and green/blue scarabs that were too tough to disarm). As you advance past level 30, start putting any extra points into more ranks in disarm, and save all lockpicking/disarming traps enhancives you find. Picking for the public can be disappointing at times because you'll occasionally have to tell them the box has a trap that's too hard for you.

That all works for me. What did you do when you tripped a scarab? Just run to a healer and frantically munch acantha? I don't have the AS/MIU yet for 113/114 yet.


Make your strength high right away. You'd already be using a relatively weak race, and one of the main benefits of archery is a very short firing time. Don't put dexterity (locksmithing and direct ranged bonus stat) or discipline (helps with aiming) too low.

Giants are +10, and dwarves & HKs are +5, relative to humans. They're not that weak :(

Also, giantkin have that Dex penalty, which is bad for the locksmithing!

I guess my question at this point is more about what I can tank. I tanked CON, AGI, and WIS; is that okay? I'm obviously going to pull points out of LOG after my 30 days, but I'm still not sure how to distribute them.


What's the level goal, and will he have access to a fixstat at some point?

At least 50, and probably not for many, many, many years, if ever. I'm saving up for a FIXSTAT for Lumi, and I'm not sure I want to go for another after that...


It may depend on how long you wait to start picking your own boxes or something, but that certainly hasn't been my experience. Checked twice and still got hit by enough traps on my own boxes to make me prefer doubling early on. Especially scarabs. Nothing says you can't double disarming for the first, say, 15 levels, then let it fall back as you get dodge up to 1x and pick it back up.

I did this. 2x Disarm, .5x Dodging, for now. Thank you for the advice, I feel alot more confident about my detection skills now :)


I agree with a giant making the best bard archer, by the way. Strength bonus for firing speed (and no RT LOOT!) and influence bonus for lullabye.

No RT LOOT?

The Dex penalty scared me off of Giantkin. Also, I my last two alts have been giants, I wanted to return to form ;)

But honestly, a human isn't a bad choice for archer, is it? I mean, it's better than any of the elven races, no?


That's good advice, having 30 disarm ranks (or even 40) ASAP will also help you learn from the traps, and you wouldn't need the dodge ranks too badly until after that point anyway.

I thought it was 40 Lockpicking ranks required for full experience...there's a disarm ranks req too?

Thanks again, guys, I'm loving this character!

[MrTastyHead]

No RT loot referring to encumbrance not increasing your bow firing RT. Higher strength, more boxes to bring back to town to pick while you rest.

A human will do just fine, you just might end up using a composite bow between the time you start aiming for eyes and the time you can keep tonis going regularly. Really won't make any big amount of difference. Though I believe it's Carabelle who has always said tonis is fairly useless as an archer because lullabye and an eye shot or two is all she needs, and waiting to pick arrows up lowers it's effectiveness.

Str- 59
Con- 70
Dex- 62
Agi- 73
Dis- 82
Aur- 62
Log- 88
Int- 41
Wis- 73
Inf- 49

That's going to end up with 76 int and the rest 100's at cap. Obviously it's not optimal for starting, but it wouldn't take much tweaking. I'd probably drop con to 60 and wis to about 50, log down to 70. Use those points to beef up str, dex, aur, and inf a bit and you should be pretty well set. I'm not a super number cruncher by any means, so somebody else may have different and/or better advice as far as that goes.

[Asrial]

The Archery DS Formula: http://forum.gsplayers.com/showpost.php?p=954443&postcount=7

[Jaimaltz]

A slight dexterity penalty isn't really a problem. The damage factor is at best .400, and usually .300 against most stuff. That's a difference of 1-2 damage. Sacrificing 1-2 damage for a permanent -1 haste effect is a bargain - bards have no problems generating a nice AS. It's a fairly minor penalty with the lockpicking too.

Heh, when I tripped scarabs that was before sunfist came out, so with my ~210ish health points, I could easily tank the damage with just sign of healing. Sigil of health, and symbol restoration would do the job just as well though, and would probably be less annoying due to the lack of spirit loss/punishment.

As far as 1035 goes, it really shines when you can get down to 1 RT shots. With a 3 second shot time, you could do that with just 30 ranks of air lore instead of having to wait until you can get 75 ranks. 45 ranks at 0/8 is a lot of points, that could be spent on an extra 45 disarm trap ranks.

As for these:

Str- 59
Con- 70
Dex- 62
Agi- 73
Dis- 82
Aur- 62
Log- 88
Int- 41
Wis- 73
Inf- 49

I don't like that distribution at all. Prime stats are way too low so you won't have as many points to spend, and strength/dex aren't high enough. These were my starting stats:

Strength (STR): 78
Constitution (CON): 30
Dexterity (DEX): 68
Agility (AGI): 53
Discipline (DIS): 74
Aura (AUR): 90
Logic (LOG): 69
Intuition (INT): 50
Wisdom (WIS): 59
Influence (INF): 89

Here's what they are at 74.

Strength (STR): 100 (40) ... 100 (40)
Constitution (CON): 73 (21) ... 72 (21)
Dexterity (DEX): 93 (16) ... 93 (16)
Agility (AGI): 77 (8) ... 77 (8)
Discipline (DIS): 89 (19) ... 89 (19)
Aura (AUR): 100 (20) ... 100 (20)
Logic (LOG): 81 (10) ... 81 (10)
Intuition (INT): 74 (12) ... 74 (12)
Wisdom (WIS): 83 (16) ... 83 (16)
Influence (INF): 100 (30) ... 100 (30)

I was very happy with those stats, gave me a good mix of utility, training points, and room for growth. If I do cap some day I might get myself a fixstat potion, but suffering through most of the game with crappy stats just so they look pretty at 100, is bad advice, IMO.

[Celephais]

Mr Tasty's stats result in
4824 PTP & 5143 MTP @ 100 (and all 100s except 76 int)

Jaimaltz's stats result in
4759 PTP & 5286 MTP @ 100
w/ stats of:
STR 100 (@63)
CON 80
DEX 100 (@87)
AGI 87
DIS 94
AUR 100 (@30)
LOG 84
INT 81
WIS 90
INF 100 (@30)

78 net TPs traded for 60 stat... at cap the trade would be a no brainer (taking the stats), but leveling up it may be more crucial /shrug
(Although higher LOG = faster absorbtion, and you're not going to be having issues actually killing/leveling either stat placement way)

[Jaimaltz]

78 net TPs traded for 60 stat... at cap the trade would be a no brainer (taking the stats), but leveling up it may be more crucial /shrug
(Although higher LOG = faster absorbtion, and you're not going to be having issues actually killing/leveling either stat placement way)

His distribution gains on mine in terms of points at the end levels, but the difference is larger at the beginning where he'll need them the most. If I were fixing my stats already at cap, I'd use his distribution. It's not all about cap though, it's also about the journey there.

Of course he could use those stats and be viable - you could probably make a runestaff ranger work if you put it together carefully and had a lot of patience. But with a strength that low, the roundtime would be painful, and unnecessary. A strength stat between 60 and 80 leaves him below the 20 bonus threshhold, making an aimed longbow shot 7 (or composite at 6) seconds. One huge advantage archery has is speed, and you might as well swing a lance at that point.

[MrTastyHead]

Ahem...


Obviously it's not optimal for starting, but it wouldn't take much tweaking. I'd probably drop con to 60 and wis to about 50, log down to 70. Use those points to beef up str, dex, aur, and inf a bit and you should be pretty well set.

Really though, if I was planning on taking the char all the way as an archer, I probably would start with the cap-based stats. Using a short bow at the lower levels, then moving to composite, wouldn't be that much of a handicap. I'd just totally neglect dodge until I had more TPs.

Then again, if I start playing again my first char will be a robes and runestaff pure bard from level 0, so I think I'm a bit more willing to put up with some difficulty than most.

[Lumi]

Is there a point at which my arrows will always stick in the target, or is it entirely based on endroll?

[Lumi]

At what point will I be able to reliably hit the area I'm aiming for? Right now, aiming for a body part seems like a great way to add 1 second of RT to my attack and lose arrows, and exactly nothing more.

[Anferis]

I can't aim reliably from the open with 2x perception and 1x ambush at level 17, but I was told it gets better around 25