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Lumi
08-13-2009, 02:28 AM
I've asked this question in a couple different places and I feel like I can't get a straight answer.

Is there any need for a gem to be over 3000 silvers in value for a maximum-level chrism? Does it degrade the benefits of the chrism or is it just a yes-or-no thing (if it's less than 3k, it can't be used at all, if it's >= 3k, it works just as well no matter the value)?

Looking to collect some orb gems to have blessed, but I'm not sure which ones I can keep and which should be sold off.

Danical
08-13-2009, 02:31 AM
From KP:

Requirements

To create a Chrism gem, a cleric must have:

* An orb gem with a value > 3000 silver
* 25 + X mana: 25 for the spell, X being a variable cost (presumably based on value and lore)
* Spiritual Lore, Blessings: 10 ranks (50 skill)
* Spiritual Lore, Summoning: 15 ranks (70 skill)
* Spiritual Lore, Religion: 25 ranks (105 skill)

Chrism gems can only be used by clerics, but may be used by any cleric once created.


It appears to be a yes or no thing.

Lumi
08-13-2009, 02:41 AM
From KP:

Requirements

To create a Chrism gem, a cleric must have:

* An orb gem with a value > 3000 silver
* 25 + X mana: 25 for the spell, X being a variable cost (presumably based on value and lore)
* Spiritual Lore, Blessings: 10 ranks (50 skill)
* Spiritual Lore, Summoning: 15 ranks (70 skill)
* Spiritual Lore, Religion: 25 ranks (105 skill)

Chrism gems can only be used by clerics, but may be used by any cleric once created.


It appears to be a yes or no thing.

Yah, I checked that, and am inclined to just go along with it, but I've heard clerics talking on multiple occasions about gem values being relevant beyond the 3k thing.

Just never with any kind of specificity :(

Danical
08-13-2009, 02:44 AM
Not for chrisms. Or at least, not that I've ever heard/seen.

Said Clerics who disagree are probably just wrong.

waywardgs
08-13-2009, 02:47 AM
Krakiipedia says 5k... ?

Durgrimst
08-13-2009, 02:49 AM
From my understanding, a 3k gem is the minimum for making a chrism, and then the higher lore training and gem value the higher quality or a raise you will get, faster recovery, fuller mind.... and all that jazz.

Durgrimst
08-13-2009, 02:50 AM
Whatever the base gem value is, I just cast at them to see if they are good, not appraise the, but from what I have understood it is the gem value and the lore training that combine to give you the best chrism.

Danical
08-13-2009, 02:54 AM
Directly from the officials:

First, when used as a pre-resurrection ritual, the gem must be waved over the body of the corpse by a Cleric. This will allow the corpse to mitigate some of the statistic recovery weakness (10% reduction) and a portion of the temporary Constitution loss (-1 reduction to Con) upon resurrection. The value of the gem can provide a bonus to further the reduction in both of these areas. In addition, the corpse will be able to retain a portion of its recently-earned experience, which would normally be lost upon returning to life. The base amount of experience retained is 50%, and is increasable by training in Spiritual Lore, Blessings at the rate of a seed 1 summation * 5, to a maximum of 100%. The lore benefit requires additional training past the initial 10 ranks which enables the Cleric to create Chrism gems.

Danical
08-13-2009, 02:55 AM
so gem value helps the CON loss and recovery but does nothing for exp retention.

Durgrimst
08-13-2009, 02:56 AM
I am glad the officials are saying the same thing as me, but that probably just means that I am wrong when you consider how accurate those are....

Asrial
08-13-2009, 02:58 AM
The answer to your question, about what orbs to keep and what orbs to sell, is dependent on how much effort you want to expend on this task.

Any chrism will work fine to do what it's supposed to do: lower CON loss and get you back to full stats faster. Maybe you'll get lucky and retain some XP. Maybe you won't. Maybe you won't get any chrism at all and we'll be back to the years of recovery prior to 325 existing. If you want to make the absolute BEST chrisms, then yes, some effort will be needed. If you just want some chrisms and could care less how good they are, just set aside any orbs you find as you purify them and sell the extra's.

That said...

These are the gems I've found to be worthy of chrism status because they all have a 5k+ base average: blazestar (all), selanthan bloodjewel, scarlet despanal, diamond (all), emerald (all), feystone (all), firestone, glimaerstone (brilliant lilac, ultramarine), sapphire (dragonsbreath, deep blue mermaid's-tear, blue shimmarglin), moonglae opal, sylvarraend ruby, chameleon agate, opaline moonstone, sunstone (all)

Now, there's two parts to a chrism.

There's a CON LOSS REDUCTION which is based on the VALUE of the gem (though, and I haven't finished my research, I think the quality of the gem can also influence the 'tier' you can get the gem into). There are 6 tiers (glowing is the highest; you can find the tiers on Krakii-pedia). This is where you rock because your purified orbs are fantastic (so save those and toss the natural orbs).

The second part of a chrism is the XP RETENTION. This is based on the BLESSINGS LORE of the cleric making the chrism. 65 is the rank needed for 100% XP retention (check out Iscikella's lore page for the details).

You want the best chrisms?

Save 9k+ orbs and get a cleric with 65 ranks in blessing lore to chrism them.

I don't know if it's possible to get a gem into the glowing tier without extra help (I've seen a couple of 10k orbs from you that I was able to chisel higher; 10k under a chisel = vibrant and 11k under a chisel = glowing; I've managed to chisel a gem from 10k to 16k but it was still just glowing, blech).

Asrial
08-13-2009, 03:01 AM
Just never with any kind of specificity :(
I can only get so specific in 2-3 whispers ;)

Danical
08-13-2009, 03:04 AM
CON loss isn't a big deal for those that aren't retards and get deeds.

1 CON loss for a death takes only 2 hunts to remove (2k exp).

For me, it's the exp in my head that matters.

QED 3k gem values are all that matter.

Asrial
08-13-2009, 03:09 AM
"1 per recent death" (this can really stack up in invasions or a bad streak)

I agree though that CON is easy enough to fix (and it boggles my mind the people who spend millions on potions).

[EDIT: Also, the reason I go after the 5k+ base gems is because I'm not a bard and the next tier below that is 2.5k base and so that means the average gem from that category will NOT work as a chrism. IMO, not worth wasting all that time and mana trying to check those gems.]

waywardgs
08-13-2009, 03:11 AM
Sting= losing out on exp. Potions require you to buy till you get past the con loss to get to losing the sting. It's either buy potions or work off the con loss under bad exp absorbtion, which sucks. I vote potions.

Danical
08-13-2009, 03:15 AM
Sting= losing out on exp. Potions require you to buy till you get past the con loss to get to losing the sting. It's either buy potions or work off the con loss under bad exp absorbtion, which sucks. I vote potions.

I think what Asrial is saying is reduce the CON loss via chrism and THEN buy your pots instead of working through the CON loss via pots to get to the Sting.

Lumi
08-13-2009, 03:19 AM
The answer to your question, about what orbs to keep and what orbs to sell, is dependent on how much effort you want to expend on this task.

Any chrism will work fine to do what it's supposed to do: lower CON loss and get you back to full stats faster. Maybe you'll get lucky and retain some XP. Maybe you won't. Maybe you won't get any chrism at all and we'll be back to the years of recovery prior to 325 existing. If you want to make the absolute BEST chrisms, then yes, some effort will be needed. If you just want some chrisms and could care less how good they are, just set aside any orbs you find as you purify them and sell the extra's.

That said...

These are the gems I've found to be worthy of chrism status because they all have a 5k+ base average: blazestar (all), selanthan bloodjewel, scarlet despanal, diamond (all), emerald (all), feystone (all), firestone, glimaerstone (brilliant lilac, ultramarine), sapphire (dragonsbreath, deep blue mermaid's-tear, blue shimmarglin), moonglae opal, sylvarraend ruby, chameleon agate, opaline moonstone, sunstone (all)

Now, there's two parts to a chrism.

There's a CON LOSS REDUCTION which is based on the VALUE of the gem (though, and I haven't finished my research, I think the quality of the gem can also influence the 'tier' you can get the gem into). There are 6 tiers (glowing is the highest; you can find the tiers on Krakii-pedia). This is where you rock because your purified orbs are fantastic (so save those and toss the natural orbs).

The second part of a chrism is the XP RETENTION. This is based on the BLESSINGS LORE of the cleric making the chrism. 65 is the rank needed for 100% XP retention (check out Iscikella's lore page for the details).

You want the best chrisms?

Save 9k+ orbs and get a cleric with 65 ranks in blessing lore to chrism them.

I don't know if it's possible to get a gem into the glowing tier without extra help (I've seen a couple of 10k orbs from you that I was able to chisel higher; 10k under a chisel = vibrant and 11k under a chisel = glowing; I've managed to chisel a gem from 10k to 16k but it was still just glowing, blech).

This helps alot, and I will indeed be coming to you at some point to get some gems blessed ;)

Here's the part that I'm still not quite following. Why do you say 9k gems are the best of the best? Where does it specify that 3k gems will reduce the CON loss by 1, and 9k gems reduce it by 5? Or whatever the math works out to, I'm just trying to figure out where the info is coming from that confirms this.

Thanks for the answer so far, guys!

Asrial
08-13-2009, 03:19 AM
Well, I see what waywardgs is also saying.. for the people who decay (whether intentionally or not) and the retards (I agree) that have no deeds *grins*

I still think it's better to just hunt it off, but some people are silly rich and some people are super focused on XP gain.

Asrial
08-13-2009, 03:30 AM
Why do you say 9k gems are the best of the best? Where does it specify that 3k gems will reduce the CON loss by 1, and 9k gems reduce it by 5? Or whatever the math works out to, I'm just trying to figure out where the info is coming from that confirms this.The reason I say 9k+ gems are the best is because that seems to be the realm where you're getting into vibrant and aren't that far from getting into glowing if you can get some extra help on the gem.

All my current data is from the chiseling I'm doing right now and I think that's skewing the results from an un-chiseled gem so I'm padding the number up a bit to make sure it gets into the vibrant tier.

7500 value gem (with chiseling) = bright
8000 value gem (with chiseling) = vibrant
10000 value gem (with chiseling) = vibrant
11000 value gem (with chiseling) = glowing

As for the CON reduction.. I don't think any one knows and I haven't done extensive research into that. I did some a long time ago but it was just a couple of times. I really don't know the difference between an ordinary chrism and a glowing chrism. All the times I got chrismed when I was testing it, it prevented a loss of 2 CON (which made me scratch my head because there was a different in the value tier).

However, that's where "best chrism" comes into play because even if it's just a slight difference.. the "best chrism" is glowing with 65 blessing ranks.

Me personally.. I'm with Danical on this. The XP retention is more important than the quality of the gem.

PS - I will always be willing to chrism for you Lumi :)

[EDIT: BTW, my values are loresong values with my level 10 bard.]

Danical
08-13-2009, 03:30 AM
This helps alot, and I will indeed be coming to you at some point to get some gems blessed ;)

Here's the part that I'm still not quite following. Why do you say 9k gems are the best of the best? Where does it specify that 3k gems will reduce the CON loss by 1, and 9k gems reduce it by 5? Or whatever the math works out to, I'm just trying to figure out where the info is coming from that confirms this.

Thanks for the answer so far, guys!

He's saying that the CON loss is determined by the value of the gem and the value of the gem determines the "descriptor of the gem" which are:

Depending upon value of the gem used, Chrism gems have different effects on minimizing the effects of Death's Sting. The six levels of strength are:

1. dark
2. dull
3. ordinary
4. bright
5. vibrant
6. glowing

I would assume dark doesn't mitigate CON loss and every other one is an increment of 1. That's purely speculation though.

Also, what exactly do you mean by getting gems "blessed." Do you mean chrism'd or actually blessed with a spell in it. If it's blessed with a spell in it then the value is what you're after.

http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/325_blessing_mana_capacity_%28saved_post%29

EDIT: Beat me to it :(

Asrial
08-13-2009, 03:35 AM
He means chrism'ed (talked to him earlier). Blessing is an okay term since usually people wanting spells use imbed.

..and just to add more here (taking a break from these stupid invasion gems, heh)..

What makes me think that chiseling is influencing more than just the value (or perhaps the quality of the gem is influencing the value) is that a 3900 value gem came out to be ordinary.

..and if there's a minimum limit of 3001..

How can you get it to dark?

..and again I agree with Danical that a dark gem is probably not going to help you any.

Lumi
08-13-2009, 03:37 AM
Okay. Now I get it. Huzzah :)

So really, I only want the glowing ones, I think. I want to sell them in my shop, but for that I want to only offer the absolute best.

Finding a cleric with 65 blessings ranks may actually be the easy part here O.o

But wait...does that mean that I would NEED a chisel in order to get a glowing chrism?

That seems...kinda ridiculous. Am I missing something?

I pretty much never loresing my gems for value (until now, I've only cared about what the gemshop would pay), but don't gem values cap out at 10k for a magnificent top-tier gem (uncut diamonds and emeralds, etc.)?

Edit: And yes, by "blessing" I mean chrism. ;)

Danical
08-13-2009, 03:40 AM
I'd be interested to know if there's a tier quality past Magnificent via Chisel.

I can meet you anywhere on the mainland if you want to test it out. I'll purify anything until I get a capped gem to test.

Danical
08-13-2009, 03:41 AM
10k is max for a standard diamond/emerald.

Asrial
08-13-2009, 03:45 AM
So far in about 20 gems from the batch earlier I've seen 4 10k's and no 11k's so I think that's right Lumi (you would know better than me about that anyways since I only know to watch out for that one message that's in my highlight strings, when I purify, heh).

If I recall correctly.. I think it was mentioned by Oscuro and/or Estild that the glowing status was supposed to be the extreme gems and not easily attainable.

You should talk to Coffie. I heard her on the amulet one night promoting her shop that sells chrisms for 25k. I don't know what kind of business she gets and if I didn't have a personal pride in my chrisms (thus the chiseling for random strangers who don't appreciate or even know what I'm doing) I would probably be doing that as well (selling them).

Asrial
08-13-2009, 03:46 AM
I'd be interested to know if there's a tier quality past Magnificent via Chisel.The 16k gem loresung at magnificent. It started at 10k and outstanding.

[EDIT: Also, the chisel I have access to is random. I just got super lucky it seems on that 10k gem. The next highest I've gotten a gem is 13k.]

Danical
08-13-2009, 03:49 AM
You're going to need Dragonfire Emeralds, Black Diamonds, etc. They have a 12k (black diamonds may be more) capped value.

Danical
08-13-2009, 03:49 AM
The 16k gem loresung at magnificent. It started at 10k and outstanding.

[EDIT: Also, the chisel I have access to is random. I just got super lucky it seems on that 10k gem. The next highest I've gotten a gem is 13k.]

I did extensive research on chisels. I'll link you, if I can find it.

Danical
08-13-2009, 03:54 AM
Gem Chisel Distribution:

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showpost.php?p=634967&postcount=82

Danical
08-13-2009, 03:56 AM
Lastly, I'm not sure if it matters, but you might want to test purifying first, then chiseling and vice versa.

waywardgs
08-13-2009, 03:59 AM
I think what Asrial is saying is reduce the CON loss via chrism and THEN buy your pots instead of working through the CON loss via pots to get to the Sting.

Sure, if someone raises you and happens to have a chrism. I'm too used to departing at 4:30 in the morning.

waywardgs
08-13-2009, 04:00 AM
I did extensive research on chisels. I'll link you, if I can find it.

Do you own a chisel? If not, you should. Clearly.

Danical
08-13-2009, 04:02 AM
Sure, if someone raises you and happens to have a chrism. I'm too used to departing at 4:30 in the morning.

:rofl: @ me.

I thought you could use it on the living to reduce/mitigate the CON loss. Apparently, all you get is a meditative state. :jerkit:

Asrial
08-13-2009, 04:04 AM
It's funny when I use a chrism accidently on someone else :P

I can't figure out that chisel post tonight (but can after some sleep) so rock on for that data :)

What about the CRUNCH shatter? Is that part of the shatters?

Danical
08-13-2009, 04:06 AM
It's funny when I use a chrism accidently on someone else :P

I can't figure out that chisel post tonight (but can after some sleep) so rock on for that data :)

What about the CRUNCH shatter? Is that part of the shatters?

I assume so, but I didn't deal directly with the chisel.

Lumi
08-13-2009, 04:40 PM
Lastly, I'm not sure if it matters, but you might want to test purifying first, then chiseling and vice versa.

I remember talking with a chisel owner awhile back (99% sure it was Jinsem), and hearing that you always purify before chiseling because you can chisel past the gem's normal value cap, but can't sing past it.

So, cap via singing, then chisel, to go over normal capped value.

Chiseling, then singing, will keep you in the normal range, since you can only chisel a gem once.

Asrial
08-13-2009, 07:01 PM
Here's my chisel data on diamonds, emeralds, some bloodjewels, and some mermaid's-tear sapphires:

53 gems chiseled (counting the shattered)

BEFORE CHISEL: 353,600
AFTER CHISEL: 541,150
DIFFERENCE: 187,550
SHATTERED: 21,050

So roughly 166k increase in price.

(and half a million silver converted into chrisms, doh)

Buckwheet
08-02-2013, 06:45 PM
Total necro but I don't care.


Roundtime changed to 3 seconds.
As you sing, you feel a faint resonating vibration from the faceted emerald in your hand, and you learn something about it...

This is a small item, under a pound. In your best estimation, it's worth about 15,000 silvers, and is of magnificent quality.

>l my em
The now translucent outer shell of the full faceted emerald allows you to see the vibrant cobalt liquid undulating.

Is 11k no longer the threshold?

Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 130 35
Shield Use.........................| 201 101
Brawling...........................| 201 101
Physical Fitness...................| 201 101
Arcane Symbols.....................| 200 100
Magic Item Use.....................| 200 100
Harness Power......................| 212 112
Spirit Mana Control................| 102 24
Spiritual Lore - Blessings.........| 165 65
Spiritual Lore - Religion..........| 145 45
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 160 60
Climbing...........................| 105 25
Swimming...........................| 140 40

Spell Lists
Major Spiritual....................| 67

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 67

Spell Lists
Cleric.............................| 169