This is what the hell they're thinking...

[Soulpieced]

Jantalar Expands! · on 7/21/2003 9:57:21 PM 2322


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JANTALAR EXPANDS!
(The Jantalarian Perspective)

A new era of prosperity has been brought about by our noble Baron Lerep Hochstib. Due to his efforts in the west, the Turamzzyrian Empire and the Barony of Jantalar now extend to the northwestern coast, in an area once known simply as "The Wilds". This area has been largely tamed, but much work lies ahead to make the region truly safe. Areas to the north still remain quite dangerous. As always, Jantalar is proud to serve as the northern border of the Empire against the harsh humanoids, ice creatures, and undead dwelling in the region.

At the center of this new territory is the small township of Wehnimer's Landing. This town was beset with war and strife until the arrival of our troops. We are securing the town presently, and expect that martial law should not extend for much more than another three to six months, or perhaps a year at the very outside. After martial law is lifted, Wehnimer's Landing will have every opportunity to petition for Free Port status. If it is determined that the town can govern itself acceptably within the guidelines set by Jantalar, then the Landing will be designated a Free Port, somewhat like the town of Solhaven to the south, but more in line with the direction from the Throne.

At present, insurrectionist tactics being employed by those defeated in the liberation of the town are making it impossible to assign Free Port status. Our soldiers, our sons and daughters, are still beset almost continuously by the unlawful, violent humanoids that were ousted from the region. These insurrectionists have scattered into the wilds surrounding Wehnimer's Landing and set up makeshift war camps. From these camps, they carry out attacks and other acts of violence against our troops. As long as the danger of spilling more Jantalarian blood exists, any attempt at setting up a regional government to attempt Free Port status is impossible. It is still unsafe for the citizens to walk the streets and all shops have been ordered closed until martial law is lifted.

When our troops arrived at the Landing, the citizens were treated as humanely as possible. No looting, ransacking, or burning was allowed, even though the insurrectionist enemies of our troops hid in the various buildings and alleyways of the town. The first concern of our troops was for the people displaced by the fighting. Jantalarian troops are bringing aid in the form of food, water, and medicine to people who are locked away in their homes until the insurrectionist fighting is stopped. A quicker and easier victory could have been achieved if our troops had as little regard for the peoples of the region as do their entrenched enemies. However, under direct order of Baron Lerep Hochstib, the well being of each and every civilized being in the region is the first and foremost concern of our troops, no matter the cost.

A petition has been forwarded to Baron Hochstib from the citizens of the Landing, requesting that the town be renamed. The citizens seem to think that leaving behind the violent past requires a fresh start. Names suggested by the petition are still only propositions, but included "Hochstib's Reach", "Chaston's Intent", and "New Jantalar". The petition was not signed by all citizens, due to the difficulties of communicating in the war-torn region, and due to the presence of insurrectionist fighters. The insurrectionists have been ransoming equipment, and the citizens will not leave their homes for fear they may be taken and ransomed to their families.

One of our nobles, Lord Holswort Niffelheim, visited the town briefly this week. While there, he was warmly greeted by the citizenry, but then ambushed and attacked by the humanoid insurrectionists who have been harassing our troops. While Lord Holswort was not injured, he chose to withdraw from the region, fearing that his presence might draw citizens out of their homes and into the path of danger from the insurrectionists.

The insurrectionists that still fight in the streets of the town are beginning to fold. They have already started falling upon one another, entering into petty squabbles over wealth and property while the citizens of the Landing once again pay the price. As soon as these criminals are removed from the town, the better for all involved.

A new age has begun in the West!

[Soulpieced]

A petition has been forwarded to Baron Hochstib from the citizens of the Landing, requesting that the town be renamed. The citizens seem to think that leaving behind the violent past requires a fresh start. Names suggested by the petition are still only propositions, but included "Hochstib's Reach", "Chaston's Intent", and "New Jantalar". The petition was not signed by all citizens, due to the difficulties of communicating in the war-torn region, and due to the presence of insurrectionist fighters.

.

That part is especially disturbing...

[Edaarin]

This is fucking ridiculous. 3 to 6 months? Are you kidding me? I've died at least 8 times since yesterday morning fighting in town, and after taking out a few marchlords after the knight-banneret announced conditions for surrender, I'm like a walking target for the snipers. Are you telling me that I won't be able to walk around in town without getting shot for SIX months?

[Soulpieced]

Should have attatched a poll with how long it takes before this is either A) Stopped, or B) Results in losing of 50+ accounts...

[Soulpieced]

Anonymous quote of the century.

XXXXX: Simply put ... Mellissa ruined GS .. and I feel bad for anyone who plays in the future and didnt know how good the game once was.

[imported_Kranar]

<< B) Results in losing of 50+ accounts... >>

I would hope not. It really is unfortunate that whenever the GMs do something big and dramatic to the game people get so pissy about it.

This is history in the making, and it is one hell of a cool concept to finally see an invading army take over the Landing and revamp it.

[peam]

Originally posted by Kranar
<< B) Results in losing of 50+ accounts... >>

I would hope not. It really is unfortunate that whenever the GMs do something big and dramatic to the game people get so pissy about it.

This is history in the making, and it is one hell of a cool concept to finally see an invading army take over the Landing and revamp it.

What he said. Melissa has done nothing to deteriorate the game's status. It seems to me like she gave this storyline (In the works for what? 6-8 years?) a boost in effort to finally get it over with.

So the Landing's been basically useless to magic users in the past few days. Boo Hoo. It was a well-known fact what kind of havoc the Mandis Crystal was going to dish out. I'm glad they didn't end this story with a dashing strike at the crystal effectively ending a story with so much building behind it in a matter of hours.

[Betheny]

Imagine what would have happened if the whole Undead Wars hadn't just been something in the documentation.

"OMG, wtf is up with Despana, she's so overpowered, the frikkin GMs are assholes, OMG"

[Taernath]

The complaints stem from the fact that only 2 classes can actually fight in this war. Pures and non-suicidal semis are effectively brushed aside due to the magic draining.

On one hand I think the idea of an occupying army is pretty cool, but on the other it means that all my non-square characters are forced to move if they want to advance. Most people can't get to the EN because of the troll king blockade, River's Rest and Teras have krolvin, and Icemule is having their own set of invasions, so that leaves only Solhaven.

[Bobmuhthol]

This is what would happen if GemStone occured in real life, though. There would be no sitting around for hours just making money. There would be creatures willing to destroy the universe just to get through the gates.

[Betheny]

Well only two classes can fight on the ground. -Anyone- can climb into that mobile tower and shoot arrows and ballistas at the Jants -- whether they're skilled in archery or not.

[Back]

I'm enjoying it. This is major. Although, now with that post, I'm kinda confused about how to play it. Ah, propoganda, such an evil thing.

By the way. Where did Soulpieced get that post from?

[Sean]

As a player I play gemstone for my enjoyment. Also as a player I don't enjoy having my character rendered useless in the place he calls home and unable to do anything. I guess we just have different ideas of fun.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Well only two classes can fight on the ground. -Anyone- can climb into that mobile tower and shoot arrows and ballistas at the Jants -- whether they're skilled in archery or not.>>

No, no they can't. The tower was destroyed before I even woke up today.

[peam]

That post looks like something from the official boards. Probably in the events folder.

[Soulpieced]

Sorry, thought I attatched it with the copy. GS-Jharra

[Edaarin]

This invasion was badly thought up. I've seen more than 1 fight break out because of vultures. The only people actually doing any fighting anymore are Cemb, Tsin, Boomsplat, and maybe Neimanz. And Drizzsdt when he shows up. You call that a quest? Please.

[Betheny]

The answer to vultures is easy:

If you're an empath or a cleric, when you see a body come in or someone hurt come in, you whisper to them and ask if they want your help. Chances are, they'll say yes, and get pissed off when other people vulture on them. Because people don't listen to others of their profession, they'll just think you're out to get the most exp or wtfever they're doing.

[Bobmuhthol]

That was the worst usage of WTF fathomable.

Originally posted by Maimara
Imagine what would have happened if the whole Undead Wars hadn't just been something in the documentation.

"OMG, wtf is up with Despana, she's so overpowered, the frikkin GMs are assholes, OMG"


Hahah! That was good. Same thing with Ta'Ashrim. Imagine getting everyone in a town losing their character for good?

[Betheny]

I think it's funny that people write up character histories that are as bad if not worse than any of the happenings in the invasions, yet bitch about the invasions because it's not FAIR it's not RIGHT this isn't supposed to HAPPEN. "I'm going to QUIT GEMSTONE because all the GMs are ASSHOLES and they HATE ME because obviously I'm the ONLY ONE THAT DIED in this invasion. I'm always the only one that dies. They're picking on ME. ONLY ME. I have RIGHTS, because I sit my ass in this town constantly, how dare you try and be realistic with this hostile take over bullshit. This NEVER happens IRL! NEVER!"

Iraq doesn't feel that way anymore.

[Jack]

This is from Mikos, the GM in charge of the entire Hochstib/Jantalar thing. It was just posted recently on the official boards.


Having read through the posts of the last couple of days, I feel I should offer up what explanation I can, for what it's worth. I won't quote from any recent posts since my intent isn't to counter statements or argue any of the points raised. The game is ultimately intended to be fun, that's why folks log on and why they spend time here, so when the game is undeniably not fun for a significant portion of the players they have every right to expect some form of explanation. This is all I intend this post as, not as a fix, not as a suggestion about what any player could or should do differently, just an explanation of why this particular invasion has heppened as it has.

Given that the players reading this will have varied lengths of experience in GemStone3, let me say that ten out of ten invasions are pitched towards PCs who are either magic users or semi-magic users. This is because magic is so prevalent in the lands and attractively so. This situation gave rise to a question - could a normal, medieval type of war even be waged successfully in GS3, and if it could be, how and why would it be? Also, every invasion ends up with the bad guys getting beat for very little reason. They kind of just seem to lose interest or they turn upon themselves, but rarely does there seem to be a good reason for them to either not win in the first place or to win but then lose out after a short while. So the origin of the Hochstib storyline was based on logically constructing a quest which would focus on non-magic users as the key players and it would do so because if a non-magical war were to be waged then squares would by default be the only fully effective combatants on the field, and also on constructing a quest with a readily apparent hingepin upon which the bad guy's success would rest. The resulting storyline has been present in the game now since its beginning in the spring of 1996 and has largely taken this long to run its course because of competing priorities, but the six month run of the War of Nations seemed an opportune time to focus on it and complete it.

When the storyline was first approved it was with the recognition that another town would need to exist besides Wehnimer's if the bad guys were to win and actually take over the town. Because of this stipulation Solhaven was conceived of and built, but during the interim since the storyline's approval not one but seven towns have come into being, along with two caravansaries which also provide key town functions. So when management approved the completion of this storyline it was with the understanding that PCs would have places to go to when life in the Landing was disrupted.

Why would life in the Landing be disrupted? In part because of player comments to the effect of, "They call that an invasion? They never even got inside the town walls!" "They think they won? They didn't even hold the town for a day!" and "Come on, give us an event that actually makes some history that people would talk about or write a story about." And such sentiment isn't at all surprising, because the basis of almost every fantasy RPG is the players' desire to participate in heroic activities, but you don't have heroics without hardship. It is the hardships that define the hero as heroic. So here we go trying to create a situation that provides at least an opportunity for as many players as possible to experience that enjoyment that every such game aspires to provide. But this time around, this one storyline in 10?...15?...20?...is skewed to provide that experience to the players who have chosen to run non-magic users in a world that has been built with magic foremost in mind. As much as chivalry and knights and barbarian warriors are a core piece of the medieval fantasy genre, there is no way to focus a storyline on them without actively moving the spotlight off of the magic using professions. And if we are going to do this and make it big enough to really matter, then how small and how brief can it be? How little hardship can be introduced and still make the PCs' triumph feel heroic? Or perhaps the key is to have NPCs endure the hardship and then have the PCs save them and receive the cheers and congratulations from the NPCs? There are advantages and disadvantages to any choice, but in this case the hardship chosen was the occupation of the Landing.

And how many ways can this storyline be heroically conclude? Is there really only one way to win? Yep. If you know about computer programming you know that every optional path you put into a flow means at least twice as much coding. Also, recognize that what most folks relate or compare RPGs to are novels. Novels only have one ending. So you can criticize or lament the fact that a storyline in the game has only one possible outcome, but there are time and resource constraints that will always make any exception to that approach an extreme rarity. Besides, almost every PC who has been affected by the mana disruption crystals knows that in order to resolve this situation they have got to be destroyed. It's no secret. And the means to achieving their destuction has been stated in game on numerous occasions over the past several years...some PC will need to forge a mandis crystal bane weapon to destroy the crystals with. How to get a shard of mandis crystal to forge a bane weapon from...that's the piece of the resolution that is still missing.

The occupation of the Landing and the invasions leading up to it have been decidedly square-focused, but the storyline as a whole has been designed to not be so focused. The storyline revolves around an ambitious neighboring noble, a common theme in medieval stories and fantasy novels, and one who bases his right to rule upon a bigotted ideology.

And the ultimate resolution will rest upon the creation of bane weapons - a skill that is practiceable by anyone - and upon the arm of whomever winds up in posession of said weapons - again, a skill practiceable by anyone.

So that is why the storyline has run to its present point in its present form, because although the portion of the storyline involving the actual invasions is very much skewed toward squares, the issues and motivations at the core of the storyline can be incorporated into the RP of many different type of PCs. Right or wrong, this time around the heroes won't be assembling a staff or many pieces or banishing a demigod, but freeing the Landing from a tyrant's grasp and delivering Icemule Trace from threatening forces. And the opportunity to play a key roll in the storyline's final resolution is open to virtually any who have chosen to participate in it.

- Mikos

[SoonToBeExGS3Player]

I signed up last month and started to enjoy the game, made it to level 10, I finally earned enough to wear some vultite gear. Then all of a sudden...

I wake up and I see a Jantlarian sitting in the park. The only town I know is being invaded, I've died about 5 times now because I can't make it from the temple and out of town before I die. So since then I haven't logged back into the game and I don't plan to since I don't have anything I can really do, except die.

[CrystalTears]

I'm glad I'm not playing. :D

[Bobmuhthol]

I'm glad SoonToBeExGS3Player is soon to be an ex-GS3 player. :D

[Parkbandit]

Oh Edaarin.. nut up. I'll protect you.

I think this invasion is actually pretty cool. It will force folks out of their 'comfort' zones and actually make some decisions.

I just hope that the Jants can forgive my one little sweep and let me conduct business as usual in my park. I promise not to attack them anymore (until it's more convenient for me to do so) and hope we can become strong allies.

Ask around, oh Jant invaders... I can be fully trusted. :)

-Pb

[Ilvane]

It's a war, what do you expect, no one dies?

I don't quite understand what the screaming is about. This is a great, realistic and well thought out story line.

I have my empath currently in the Landing, where she dies frequently, but what can I expect? It's a war, and she's an elf..I'm not vulturing anyone, and have had more than one body taken away from me while I was sitting there getting ready to heal them. I just let it go and go help someone else..it's not the end of the world.

Now a historical event this is, for sure. I'd venture a guess that those of you who actually stay and enjoy the event will be a part of history..whether you die a lot or not.

:-P

-A

[vigilante]

Originally posted by Edaarin
This is fucking ridiculous. 3 to 6 months? Are you kidding me? I've died at least 8 times since yesterday morning fighting in town, and after taking out a few marchlords after the knight-banneret announced conditions for surrender, I'm like a walking target for the snipers. Are you telling me that I won't be able to walk around in town without getting shot for SIX months?

Yo. Idiots. This is propoganda, not Simutronics policy. Sheesh.

[Chyrain]

Simutronics: Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[vigilante]

Originally posted by Taernath
The complaints stem from the fact that only 2 classes can actually fight in this war. Pures and non-suicidal semis are effectively brushed aside due to the magic draining.

On one hand I think the idea of an occupying army is pretty cool, but on the other it means that all my non-square characters are forced to move if they want to advance. Most people can't get to the EN because of the troll king blockade, River's Rest and Teras have krolvin, and Icemule is having their own set of invasions, so that leaves only Solhaven.

Oh Boo hoo hoo! Where in the Hell did this fleet of whiners that only care about their personal enjoyment come from? Either put up or shut up. The quicker the lands are rid of this type of carrion the better. You contribute nothing.

The most impressive characters to me the past several days have been a cleric and a warrior, both of whom are under twenty trains. When we had the roving tower, they ran back and forth to Solhaven, delivering thousands of rounds of ammo and bows to the resistance within the tower itself. As a result, they got to know dozens of new folks and they contributed positively to this saga. Did they die? Sure, a few times, but they lived far more often. Choices. Live with them.

[CrystalTears]

Right, so my choice is not to play because I don't find invasions fun in any way, and they impede on my enjoyment of the game, so I leave it for those who like that type of thing. :D

[Warriorbird]

You could avoid it entirely, like most of mine are doing. Jantalarans aren't attacking me, and tons of clerics and healers around.

[Taernath]

Originally posted by vigilante
Oh Boo hoo hoo! Where in the Hell did this fleet of whiners that only care about their personal enjoyment come from? Either put up or shut up. The quicker the lands are rid of this type of carrion the better. You contribute nothing.

Haha... wow. Don't think I've ever gotten such a vitriolic response to one of my posts here before. Guess I should be proud. :D

[Camri]

I understand that some of you might enjoy the invasion. It's a change of pace, and some have been here long enough to have followed the storyline.
I haven't been in GS long enough to have followed the storyline. I have a young magical character. I find the whole thing to be not thought out very well.
What about the rest of us who don't want to fight in a invasion, or are unable to?
We pay the same rates as everybody else, and should be entitled to the same amount of enjoyment of the game.
As it is. My character has 4 choices at the present moment. She can Stay in a unaffected hunting area and power hunt. She can stay in the coastal cliffs in a overcrowded room that scrolls so badly it gives me a headache. She can leave the landing and go to another town where she DOESN'T want to be. Or she can sit in town alone without mana. Gee, what choices!
I hope those ofyou that are enjoying yourselves continue to do so. As for me. I'm giving it another 48 hours, and if there aren't any changes in the situation, Camri's gone on vacation.

[imported_Kranar]

I'm not part of the invasion because I am a spellcaster and too young to do anything in it.

But I like this because it gives history to the game. The game isn't simply some boring habitual same ol thing day after day. I can rest assured that dramatic events will happen, for Christ's sake a mass-scale war is going on, can't you picture this in your head? Can't you picture how cool it is to be part of the game while the Landing, Elanthia's most booming metropolis, is being overrun. I just really enjoy the suspence, keeping up to date with the events. To me the invasion has a storyline function, and waiting to see who will be the one to save the Landing, who will be the one to restore peace in Elanthia is actually intriguing... even if that person can't be me.

[Neildo]

This sounds like a real cool event. Just too bad I'm not playing until GS4 comes out. And then when GS4 DOES come out and the event is still going on, I'll only be level 1 since I'm starting all new characters with the new races. D'oh!

It's about time dramatic roleplayed events start happening in the game. It's making this feel like a real interactive world rather than some fancy chatroom. Log in, hunt, sit/rest/hide, go afk. Wow, real fun. Thank goodness for the change of pace.

As for people complaining about various things.. mainly about being helpless.. there's many places you can go. Like Mikos said in the post that was shown here, there's a couple caravansarries you can go to, towns you can go to, and the like. There's many safe areas. Most people that complain are just clueless when it comes to certain things. Once people tell them about certain aspects of the game that they don't know about, it tends to fix their problem. So rather than complain about a problem that won't go away, ask people how you can help take care of it.

- N

[Bobmuhthol]

If I was complaining about dying in an invasion and losing the priveleges (sp) of my town, I'd most likely stay in the town and die rather than go to a six-room town with no other inhabitants.

I've been so bored with the invasion that I don't play anymore. That has led to me begging Kranar over and over again to let me play his MUD because I'm so damn bored. Beats building my hopes up, playing GemStone, and getting more bored than before, I say.

[Back]

At level 8 been able to hunt, fry, earn consistantly during all this. Sure its kinda tricky, but where there is a will there is a way. Doing the Maimara trick of ringing two north, one east of Caravansary gate to the Coastal Cliff camp.

Was able to drag a few folks during the fighting. Stumbled onto the Solhaven thing. Ways to get involved AND do the day to day rinse repeat stuff are out there if you really want them.

Sounds like some people don't want either.

[Ilvane]

You know, there are other towns, people..;) I know plenty who have come to Mule or Solhaven. It's not that bad. I mean, even if you have to not power hunt for a few days, it's not going to be the end of the world!

It's a big war, it's going to take time. I don't agree that there isn't something to be done all the time either. It's so disappointing that most people can't find something to enjoy in this, either the invasion or the roleplay around it.

It's like someone said on another thread, Simu is damned if you do, damned if you don't. If they don't do invasions, people are angry, and ask for larger scale invasions. If they do them, people complain because they are too big and it's intefering in their lives. Don't do changes..they don't do enough work. Do changes and they are ruining everything!

Yeesh! It's not the end of the world--or is it? :whistles: :grin:

-A

[Edited on 7-23-2003 by Ilvane]

[longshot]

I just hate the whole worthless feeling... like we are forced to wait around until we find out how to make the weapon to kill the crystal.

Big deal... we can shoot a ballista. It doesn't mean anything. Really pointless...

I've been hunting wolfshades. No coins and no skins. No trips to the bank.

Also, whats so great that this invasion is geared towards squares, because all the others have been for pures? Everyone should be able to participate.

I'm a semi... like there's ever going to be something geared towards us. Riiiiight!

Not a whole lot of fun...

[Drew2]

An unwholesome weariness washes over you, and as it leaves you feel a vague sense of loss.

That has come to be THE most annoying phrase ever put on the face of this earth.

[Warriorbird]

Suck it up. There's a lot of places unaffected. If you want to hunt the Landing, and you haven't been trying to fight them, you can now. Other than that? Lots more people in those "underpopulated" towns right now.

[Warriorbird]

Now, if you want to hear me critique the event? Ask why we now have Elven and Giantkin knights of the human empire who were NOT knighted by Malwind (the half-elf baron).

[Kriztian]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
Now, if you want to hear me critique the event? Ask why we now have Elven and Giantkin knights of the human empire who were NOT knighted by Malwind (the half-elf baron).

If you mean Yviara and Valicar, they were knighted by Earl Jovery and not Malwind. As Northern Sentinel, Jovery has made it pretty clear that he supports the diversity of the Landing, Icemule, and environs and he hopes one day we have the opportunity to petition the Empire for free port status, much like Solhaven. As for Malwind, keep in mind that the Captain of his guard, Gurbah, is half man, half beast. Malwind does not have the racial hang-ups a fool like Hochstib does, which is one of the many reasons Malwind is our ally and liege.

Incidentally, Valicar graciously refused to be a knight of the empire and instead chose to be a knight-errant under Malwind, which might be more reasonable to some because of the potential conflict of causes.

We really do not know whether the Empire has knighted other races before - perhaps someone could ask Malwind or Jovery or perhaps Emporer Aurmont himself. The human-only edict is not followed to the letter of the law in all parts of the Empire, this we know. And some, like Hochstib, follow it fanatically.

I guess I'm wondering where you think the criticism lies?

[Dighn Darkbeam]

This invasion would of went off alot better if it were not done in the Landing. Many people have been playing this game for a long time and never had the urge to visit other towns.

My guess is alot of programing and time went into making the EN and other newly expanded areas and the GM's feel not enough people are heading over there. First they burn down the city, granted the Caravanassery is there, but who wants to live with Gypsys?

Now they took things a step further and messed with mana and spells. Seems their plan is working well, ive seen loads of mainlanders coming to the Rest. I am sure other towns are seeing an influx of unhappy campers as well.

As I said at the begining, its fine if you want to have a Square free for all, but perhaps you should of picked a different city.

[longshot]

I live in Japan, so when I play, it is 13 hours different from EST.

There are under 300 players in the lands right now. If I don't live in the landing, and something happens, I decay. There are really very few people around at this time, so I feel like I don't have a choice in matter.

I'm sure others feel that way to.

[vigilante]

Originally posted by Dighn Darkbeam
This invasion would of went off alot better if it were not done in the Landing. Many people have been playing this game for a long time and never had the urge to visit other towns.

My guess is alot of programing and time went into making the EN and other newly expanded areas and the GM's feel not enough people are heading over there. First they burn down the city, granted the Caravanassery is there, but who wants to live with Gypsys?

Now they took things a step further and messed with mana and spells. Seems their plan is working well, ive seen loads of mainlanders coming to the Rest. I am sure other towns are seeing an influx of unhappy campers as well.

As I said at the begining, its fine if you want to have a Square free for all, but perhaps you should of picked a different city.

If you read Mikos's post, the fact this played out in the Landing was not so ulterior. It was the culmination of several factors which I really don't want to review here. See his post, it's honest and straightforward.

I personally love that this is happening in the Landing. It's disrupted many, many lives, making WoN truly global. That's what a good war does. For years, folks have been complaining that the invasions were all "Disneyified." This ain't no Disney. The fact that its upset so many people is proof positive that Mikos and team have done one Hell of a job, in my opinion.

[Parkbandit]

Well said Vigilante. I agree.

[Taernath]

Originally posted by Kriztian
[quote]As for Malwind, keep in mind that the Captain of his guard, Gurbah, is half man, half beast.

Now there's an old name. Gurbah is actually half-ogre/half-centaur, and a long time ago (97 or 98) initially fought with, then helped the silver gryphons when they went to go rescue someone from Jantalar. I wonder how he became captain of the guard?

[Taernath]

Originally posted by Tayre
An unwholesome weariness washes over you, and as it leaves you feel a vague sense of loss.

That has come to be THE most annoying phrase ever put on the face of this earth.

Especially when it happens every 10 seconds.

[Dighn Darkbeam]

If you read Mikos's post, the fact this played out in the Landing was not so ulterior. It was the culmination of several factors which I really don't want to review here. See his post, it's honest and straightforward.

I personally love that this is happening in the Landing. It's disrupted many, many lives, making WoN truly global. That's what a good war does. For years, folks have been complaining that the invasions were all "Disneyified." This ain't no Disney. The fact that its upset so many people is proof positive that Mikos and team have done one Hell of a job, in my opinion. >>

There can be more than one reason GM's do the things they do. I personally dont care that the Landing is overun, but I could see how it could be very upsetting to lower-mid level magic users.

I also see how this invasion could be fun for people, especially squares and healers. I still say more people overall would have an enjoyable time if the mandis crystal impacted Solhaven versus the Landing.

True, you wouldnt be able to watch the same amount of people suffer as you would in the Landing. Less people would have their gameplay disrupted, forcing them to deal with the problem. The people that would like to engage in this storyline could easily make it to Solhaven to join in.

Unlike real wars, the point of this one isnt actually for Hoshtib to take the Landing, its for the most people overall to have an enjoyable experience.

Kris na Su'ta

[Edited on 7-23-2003 by Dighn Darkbeam]

[vigilante]

"Unlike real wars, the point of this one isnt actually for Hoshtib to take the Landing, its for the most people overall to have an enjoyable experience. "

For many like myself, Hochstib taking the Landing IS enjoyable. I hope the GMs never cave into the whole "I pay bladadee-blah blah so I want it MY way" mentality. Situations that provide inherent risk, and lots of it, keep us all awake and make us think creatively. Especially when it's inconvenient. (Waaaah!)

[Warriorbird]

"If you mean Yviara and Valicar, they were knighted by Earl Jovery and not Malwind. "

Precisely what I said, if you bothered to read my post, Kriztian.

"Malwind does not have the racial hang-ups a fool like Hochstib does, which is one of the many reasons Malwind is our ally and liege. "

OOC bulletin board, hey. Seperate.

I've got no problem with Malwind knighting whoever he chooses. Considering human history, however, seems mighty strange that someone (not him) would knight Elves into the service of the Empire, much less Giantkin.

[Kriztian]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
"If you mean Yviara and Valicar, they were knighted by Earl Jovery and not Malwind. "

Precisely what I said, if you bothered to read my post, Kriztian.

My sincere apologies, I did indeed misread that part.


Originally posted by Warriorbird
"Malwind does not have the racial hang-ups a fool like Hochstib does, which is one of the many reasons Malwind is our ally and liege. "

OOC bulletin board, hey. Seperate.

Pardon me again, I'll change it to 'which is one of the many reasons Malwind is the Gryphons' ally and liege. (sheesh).


Originally posted by Warriorbird
I've got no problem with Malwind knighting whoever he chooses. Considering human history, however, seems mighty strange that someone (not him) would knight Elves into the service of the Empire, much less Giantkin.

History is forever changing, and as the rest of my post said, Earl Jovery has expressed on numerous occasions that he admires the diversity of the Landing and hopes one day it's citizens can apply for Free Port status, much like Solhaven. I would add how significant it was, that the Empress expressed the essentially the same sentiment before she was assassinated.

I truly did not mean to come off as flaming your ideas, Warriorbird. If so, I humbly apologize. I simply wanted to further shed whatever little light I might be able to shed.

Respectfully,

Kriztian's player.

[Dighn Darkbeam]

For many like myself, Hochstib taking the Landing IS enjoyable. I hope the GMs never cave into the whole "I pay bladadee-blah blah so I want it MY way" mentality. Situations that provide inherent risk, and lots of it, keep us all awake and make us think creatively. Especially when it's inconvenient. (Waaaah!) >>>

As long as you are the majority, thats fine.

[Wethalhalas]

Originally posted by Taernath

Originally posted by Kriztian
[quote]As for Malwind, keep in mind that the Captain of his guard, Gurbah, is half man, half beast.

Now there's an old name. Gurbah is actually half-ogre/half-centaur, and a long time ago (97 or 98) initially fought with, then helped the silver gryphons when they went to go rescue someone from Jantalar. I wonder how he became captain of the guard?

Wow, his dad fucked a horse. Haha.

[Bobmuhthol]

If he's half-centaur, doesn't that make him like.. 1/2 ogre, 1/4 human, and 1/4 horse?

[Warriorbird]

Just a misunderstanding. No hard feelings, Kriztian. I was perhaps a little bit edgy due to having been in a heated net discussion with some folks who misunderstood an entirely different set of things revolving around this mess.

[Sean]

Originally posted by vigilante

For many like myself, Hochstib taking the Landing IS enjoyable. I hope the GMs never cave into the whole "I pay bladadee-blah blah so I want it MY way" mentality. Situations that provide inherent risk, and lots of it, keep us all awake and make us think creatively. Especially when it's inconvenient. (Waaaah!)

i have to disagree .. its hard to consider myself awake when it causes me to become disinterested and less likely to play and partake in the events ... being excluded except for saving people (which is not something my character does) and shooting balistas does not keep me awake .. it makes me bored and disinterested