Foul Taste

[Soulpieced]

I have had a number of people complain to me about this. Yet somehow it's not against policy. Should not something be done? This is a post in the Lost and Found folder.


To those loosing their weapons in jant invasions, Drektor has been kind enough to collect them off the battlefield and has been selling them back to their owners, He was kind enough to sell Menos his golvern lance that a jant disarmed from him during battle back to him for over 3 million. Check with Drektor and perhaps he can help you too.

[Edaarin]

Damn. That's terrible.

A lot of people are going to say it's their own faults for bringing expensive weapons, and they're right. At 62 trains, I'm getting disarmed pretty easily, and marchlords are popping up every 6 or 7 minutes. So I stowed all my expensive weapons in my locker and carry around 3 e-bladed weapons, which get stolen when I die and the jants rifle through my stuff. That's the smart thing to do.

So far this afternoon, I've returned a mithril claidhmore, a fish spine sword, and a veniom-hilted falchion. I didn't expect any reward, I would have expected someone to do the same had it been my weapon. What Drektor's doing might leave a foul taste in your mouth, but there's nothing against it. Those people knew coming in that Jantalarians like disarming people and plundering their corpses, and they should have taken proper precautions.

[CrystalTears]

That's someone taking advantage of the situation and I think it should be against policy. That's just sad that someone could be that low. Sure people go in knowing that they will be disarmed, but I was always under the impression that people unite as a team for invasions and work together. If I knew that people were going to stab me in the back, I won't try to save them in the future and let invading mods take the town next time.

[Edited on 7/20/2003 by CrystalTears]

[Scott]

Find a nice old sorcerer, grab a note, tell him your going to pay him. Have the sorcerer give him itches, take your blade back.

I did the same thing to some guy who happened to pick my blade up when I didn't type MY..... GM's didn't seem to care then. I would ask around first, since that is somewhat against policy....

[Soulpieced]

Kind of hard when no spells can be cast.

[Scott]

Originally posted by Soulpieced
Kind of hard when no spells can be cast.

Ehh, well I wouldn't want to be standing in town exchanging a weapon..... better take it to the safe spot, the cliffs. ;)

[Soulpieced]

In case you're one of those who doesn't really play GS, there is currently the Jantalarian/Hocstib/Mandis Crystal garbage going on. Spells are stripped and nothing can be cast currently anywhere near the landing all the way to almost Icemule.

[Scott]

Originally posted by Soulpieced
In case you're one of those who doesn't really play GS, there is currently the Jantalarian/Hocstib/Mandis Crystal garbage going on. Spells are stripped and nothing can be cast currently anywhere near the landing all the way to almost Icemule.

Coastal cliffs aren't blocked by the crystal. It's the safe spot around the landing..... Which is why if I wanted to exchange a weapon, I'd want to be at the one safe spot in town.

[Weedmage Princess]

A lowlife move if you ask me. I too, haven't taken my better weapon out during the Jant invasions, but for different reasons. That's the type of person who you let bleed to death if they need healing, if you see them stunned on the floor with some critter in the room, you cast 117 on the critter, then spell it up...if you see dead somewhere, you just walk by, etc.

[Bobmuhthol]

I've hit three Jants with a bow from the ballista tower so far. I've also missed about 25 times.

Drektor is a good man. Not his fault he has a healthy respect for money.

[Edited on 7-20-2003 by Bobmuhthol]

[Scott]

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren

Originally posted by Gemstone101
Find a nice old sorcerer, grab a note, tell him your going to pay him. Have the sorcerer give him itches, take your blade back.

I did the same thing to some guy who happened to pick my blade up when I didn't type MY..... GM's didn't seem to care then. I would ask around first, since that is somewhat against policy....


Actually, I was gonna have someone give itches to the guy who hacked my account. Talked to a GM about it, she said it is absolutely against policy and they will take action on that kind of behavior.

-Melissa

That is a little different though. Although you are probably right, and could get in trouble because of it. I was reported for doing it, and Khaladon let me go, but I know GM's all have differences of opinion. It's worth a shot though..... if the weapon is real valuable to you.

[Bobmuhthol]

Then why wasn't Kimmurial punished for stealing Rorac's massive stone mattock with curse?

[Sean]

that'll teach people to goto invasions ... be interesting to see what happens with this trend, breakage, and dr points .. i know i wont be going to any anymore .. take the town see if i care

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
Then why wasn't Kimmurial punished for stealing Rorac's massive stone mattock with curse?

Because GS is all about the cash! cash is king baby. Keep on paying your monthly fee, and you can do anything.

Look at Warclaidhm, Haashek. They cause more turmoil in the game than 50 folks combined, yet they keep on causing turmoil, don't they.

Frankly, I don't even know if GS4 is worth sticking around for anymore. Anyone want to buy two accounts for cash?

82 mage, 51 Cleric, 28 Empath, 2 20 warriors, 21 rogue, 32 ranger, 16 ranger, and about a dozen chars in the 8-12 range.

Cash is king baby, just ask Simu.

[Sweets]

I agree. Cash is king in gemstone for some of the players. Unfortunately, there are the looters and opportunists in the game as there are in real life. I could go into a large speel about how there is a difference in being a jackass and playing a jackass but I will just leave on this note....

The opportunists and looters suck...but it is only a game when you boil it down.

Deep down I have a tiny voice saying this is a good thing. Perhaps the prices of weapons and such will drop if breakage and disarming come into play. It's a double edged sword.

[Taernath]

That he's specifically going to the area to collect disarmed weapons for resale is incredibly distasteful.

[Bobmuhthol]

Doesn't it have to be sold for resale to commence? He only sells to the people who lost the weapon, anyway. That's smart.

[Ben]

Infantry is king.

[peam]

Originally posted by Sweets
I agree. Cash is king in gemstone for some of the players. Unfortunately, there are the looters and opportunists in the game as there are in real life. I could go into a large speel about how there is a difference in being a jackass and playing a jackass but I will just leave on this note....


That post sums up my opinion. Sounds like the guys being an opportunist, if not a corrupt one.

[Betheny]

All I have to say about that, is I hope Maimara hears about it in game, because the guy will never get any help from me.

[Parkbandit]

Get an old warrior to disarm him when he goes for the exchange.

While it is distastful what he is doing.. it IS right in line with the roleplay the Drektor does portray. He's a lowlife thief that will steal from anything and anyone.

[StrayRogue]

Yah, cash rules all in GS. RP is a distant second or third. Hence why the muppets (Warclaidhm, Haashek, this idiot Drektar) can perpetuate themselves. Hmm, reminds me of America...

[vigilante]

I think the Silver Gryphons have returned probably 300+ weapons and shields (yes, they sometimes take shields) since this Baron Saga began. Kinshack and Cemb alone have returned well over 75 a piece. It is simple to have a bard sing to the weapon to locate it's owner (if it's registered). It's even easier to post on the lost and found boards.

People like Drektor burn their own bridges. He has not sunk to the same depths as Warclaidhm, but he is descending fast and if he does not make good on his actions I guarantee you life will become very unpleasant for him in the lands.

Karma exists in GS3.

[Parkbandit]

There is a huge difference between folks like Warclaidhm and characters like Drektar...

Warclaidhm is simply an idiot who whines about everything and everyone and cannot maintain a simple roleplaying character. Is he ever actually IN CHARACTER?

Drektar is a character in Gemstone that roleplays a nasty thief. Personally, I really don't know him but the one or two interactions we have had. He very well could be someone that cannot maintain his roleplay as well... but I've never seen him out of character. Falgrin thinks he is an ass for trying to steal from him... especially after warning him not to do so... but me the player finds absolutely nothing wrong with Drektar's chosen roleplay.

I think it would be out of character for Drektar to simply go up to folks and hand their weapons back to them for free.

Would it be something I would do as a player? Not on your life.. I find the practice repulsive. I hope he one day needs the help of others and they simply spit on his corpse.

But don't compare his chosen roleplay to someone like Warclaidhm who basically uses the game as a chat room.

[Sumone]

Originally posted by Weedmage Princess
A lowlife move if you ask me. I too, haven't taken my better weapon out during the Jant invasions, but for different reasons. That's the type of person who you let bleed to death if they need healing, if you see them stunned on the floor with some critter in the room, you cast 117 on the critter, then spell it up...if you see dead somewhere, you just walk by, etc.

It is a low life move, but it is not an OOC low life move. We have dealt with Drek before. He seems like a decent player. If the character is meant to be low life scum, what is wrong with him recovering the weapons and selling them back?

From what has been posted here, it sounds as if the player is doing it with a little style. He gives the target a chance to recover their weapon which is a nice gesture on the player's part. If he was just trying to be a straight up jerk, he could dump the weapons into a trash barrel.

The fact is the targets took the risk and lost the gamble. At that point, the weapon is no longer their's anyway.

Thick skin and a seperation from your character and yourself can not only improve roleplay by leaps and bounds it can make the game much more enjoyable.

[StrayRogue]

Wow, please keep us updated on this.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Ok, reading throught that log...

I've played for 7 years. Never been hacked. How does one get hacked? Seriously? I find myself very skeptical that it is possible without some unmentioned bit of information.

[Soulpieced]

I've played for 7 years. Never been hacked. How does one get hacked? Seriously? I find myself very skeptical that it is possible without some unmentioned bit of information.

.

By either A) sharing account information or
B) downloading a virus (keystroke capture, etc.).

"Hacking" or getting into the actual Simu system is impossible. Nobody "hacks" your character, they merely guess your password. Which is hardly hacking (really should be referred to as cracking). I'm sure 90% or more of all claimed "hacks" were done by someone who was knowingly given the password to an account.

[vigilante]

"But don't compare his chosen roleplay to someone like Warclaidhm who basically uses the game as a chat room."

Puh-lease do not try to think up an in-game roleplay justification for Drektor's actions. The actions are asinine and inexcusable. That he would even begin to charge the amount he's charged for the items in question show more about the player behind Drektor than Drektor himself. Cha-ching!

[Scott]

Hacking simutronics is very possible. If you are hooked up to the internet, you can be hacked. Although, I highly doubt any gemstone case where a character was destroyed was a true hacking.....

[Betheny]

I think 'hacking' is a term sometimes assigned to 'something happened online/with my computer that I didn't do'.

Whether it's a real hacking or not, it's still a violation of sorts, abuse of other people's 'property'... There's probably a better term for it.

[Bobmuhthol]

I love Soulpieced. He actually understands what hacking is. Sintik, you're half right. You can be hacked just by being on the internet. But you can't hack Simutronics no matter how much you try. If you manage it, you won't get anywhere but jail.

[Scott]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
I love Soulpieced. He actually understands what hacking is. Sintik, you're half right. You can be hacked just by being on the internet. But you can't hack Simutronics no matter how much you try. If you manage it, you won't get anywhere but jail.

A decent hacker can hack simutronics. People hack other sites and games, why is Simutronic's any different. Diablo II, Yahoo, CNN, Everquest.... have all been hacked. Simutronics is no different. Our characters are stored on a server, which is hooked up to the internet, therefore it can be accessed. I mean come on, two 10 year olds hack the CIA's computer and got access to tons of information. The only reason they got caught was because they talked about and bragged......

[Bobmuhthol]

Simutronics doesn't have (well, not to that level, at least) idiots playing. Diablo II and Everquest have a bunch of morons who are 15 years old and think they're 31337. Of course they'd be hacked, they promote being hacked by allowing these people to play.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
I love Soulpieced. He actually understands what hacking is. Sintik, you're half right. You can be hacked just by being on the internet. But you can't hack Simutronics no matter how much you try. If you manage it, you won't get anywhere but jail.

I don't disagree with you Bob, but I think you are being overly picky about the semantics here.

Yes she was not "hacked" but she did have someone use a keylogger or the like to get her account information without her consent. Most casual computer users (myself included) will be able to follow the concept using the term hacked as she did.

I just think you are getting all bent out of shape over her word usage without need.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Yes she was not "hacked" but she did have someone use a keylogger or the like to get her account information without her consent.>>

No, she gave out her password.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol


No, she gave out her password.

Really?

Did she say that or are you assuming? I had thought she said it was a keylogger.

If not then sorry for the error.

[Betheny]

From what she said, he HAD her password but that was changed.

Maybe he changed her info or something, dunno.

[Sean]

someone brought up a good point .. how would you rather see him rp a thief and opportunist? after all everyone says its a roleplaying game instead of a rollplaying game .. so tell me? if you were in his shoes and you rped a thief .. how would you do it?

[Betheny]

Well I guess that all depends, what happens if someone doesn't have the means to pay the guy what he wants? Is he actually going to keep their weapon, and re-sell it, or use it himself?

If it comes down to that, I think that kind of crosses the line (for me) between being opportunistic and being an asshole.

[Bobmuhthol]

If I roleplayed a thief I'd totally give back the weapon/shield I stole. Definitely. That's good roleplay.

[Betheny]

That's just like... my opinion man.

[Sean]

I'm just saying, everyone bitches and moans about how the game isnt a roleplaying game then when someone plays out their character in a way you (the general you not anyone specific) don't like hes automatically an asshole and alienated. If you want people to roleplay deal with the consequences. That's just my opinion.

[Taernath]

Originally posted by Tijay
someone brought up a good point .. how would you rather see him rp a thief and opportunist? after all everyone says its a roleplaying game instead of a rollplaying game .. so tell me? if you were in his shoes and you rped a thief .. how would you do it?

If he wants to RP a thief, fine, but as you said that also means accepting the consequences.

In this case though, there are no consequences for him because of silly policy limitations. He has our items but we can't kill him like the thief he is. The GMs should either force him to return the items, or step back and let us handle this ourselves.

[Edited on 7/22/03 by Taernath]

[Bobmuhthol]

Taking the weapon from his character is not dealing with the consequences. That's an abuse of power.

[Sean]

GM's should definitly not force him to give them back. They want to add more sting to the game (ie. dr points) and make you think more before you act. So deal with it critters have been disarmings in invasions for along time now and anyone with gear that is worth collecting in said invasions should have been around long enough to know that. Now if your gonna argue some level 5 guy with a ora broadsword is gonna get demoralized because of drektor I'm sorry but i highly doubt that. There would be no real financial gain in it. Now if were talking about 3million silver+ items like whoevers golvern lance then all i can say is he should have known better.

[Scott]

Originally posted by Tijay
someone brought up a good point .. how would you rather see him rp a thief and opportunist? after all everyone says its a roleplaying game instead of a rollplaying game .. so tell me? if you were in his shoes and you rped a thief .. how would you do it?

Their are limitations. What if I wanted to be a thief sorcerer, should I give everyone the itches, steal their weapons and say "I'm roleplaying" when I get called up by a GM? Stealing someones weapon and saying you did it because "your roleplaying" is just an excuse to make money, which is what he's trying to do. I'm hoping I come across him and his weapon on the ground so I can steal it....

[Sean]

and yes drektor too has to deal with the consequences of his actions. Will they probably negatively impact his character sure. It's a two way street. But again these are just my opinions.

[Sean]

Yes but theres no policy about picking things up off the ground now is there?

[Bobmuhthol]

Stealing a weapon is far from picking up a weapon from the ground. He can pick one up completely within policy. But you can't literally force the weapon from his hand just because he picked it up. Again, it's an abuse of power, not thievery. He's roleplaying by sneaking through the crowd (not literally), snatching the item and making sure he has a good grip on it. A definite way to show you're not roleplaying is to say, "I saw you PICK UP that item, now I'm going to curse you and STEAL it from you!"

[Scott]

Originally posted by Tijay
and yes drektor too has to deal with the consequences of his actions. Will they probably negatively impact his character sure. It's a two way street. But again these are just my opinions.

Empaths will heal him, clerics will raise him..... He gets nothing. The only thing that happens is a few people look at him and think "what a jerk."

[Sean]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
Stealing a weapon is far from picking up a weapon from the ground. He can pick one up completely within policy. But you can't literally force the weapon from his hand just because he picked it up. Again, it's an abuse of power, not thievery. He's roleplaying by sneaking through the crowd (not literally), snatching the item and making sure he has a good grip on it. A definite way to show you're not roleplaying is to say, "I saw you PICK UP that item, now I'm going to curse you and STEAL it from you!"

It makes me sad to have to agree with Bobmuhthol

[Scott]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
Stealing a weapon is far from picking up a weapon from the ground. He can pick one up completely within policy. But you can't literally force the weapon from his hand just because he picked it up. Again, it's an abuse of power, not thievery. He's roleplaying by sneaking through the crowd (not literally), snatching the item and making sure he has a good grip on it. A definite way to show you're not roleplaying is to say, "I saw you PICK UP that item, now I'm going to curse you and STEAL it from you!"

Well since you can't simply kill him over and over again until he either goes demonic or decides, "well this sucks, maybe I should just give him his weapon back." So what can you do? Not a damn thing...... THAT is why what he is doing is bullshit.

[Bobmuhthol]

No, that's why the GMs and the policy are bullshit. What he's doing is clever.

[Scott]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
No, that's why the GMs and the policy are bullshit. What he's doing is clever.

No, thats why what he's doing is bullshit, because he's hiding behind the bullshit policy.

[Sean]

I still stand my by opinion that anyone who has anything worth picking up should know by now not to bring it to an invasion.

[Bobmuhthol]

I'm debating whether what I did was worse or better than what Drektor is doing. I was in TSC one day and saw someone drop a Krolvin backslasher. Of course my first reaction was, "Too bad someone's going to grab it.." but quickly realized it was still sitting there. I picked it up, ran, and nothing ever happened. I still have that backslasher and I feel good about it.

[Scott]

Originally posted by Tijay
I still stand my by opinion that anyone who has anything worth picking up should know by now not to bring it to an invasion.

Some people get caught in the middle of it without expecting it. I know I got into the game and had a bunch of Jants just swinging at me. I carry around a 10x stuff on some characters, and just walking into an invasion I can't do shit in, I can lose my stuff. I don't really like that idea..... but your right, people shouldn't run into an invasion with all there expensive gear, but some people just get caught in the middle by accident.

[Scott]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
I'm debating whether what I did was worse or better than what Drektor is doing. I was in TSC one day and saw someone drop a Krolvin backslasher. Of course my first reaction was, "Too bad someone's going to grab it.." but quickly realized it was still sitting there. I picked it up, ran, and nothing ever happened. I still have that backslasher and I feel good about it.

You got yourself a backscratcher now...

[Bobmuhthol]

Now? I had it a year ago.

[Scott]

Who cares, someone dropped it because they were stupid, they didn't have it forced out of there hands..... there is a difference.

[Sean]

I'm willing to bet most of the people who drektor sold their weapons to were stupid also. Although yes i do agree you can get caught in the middle sometimes its just not as likely a scenario in my mind.

[Bobmuhthol]

To be (better), or not to be (better), that is the (original) question.

[Edited on 7-22-2003 by Bobmuhthol]

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Tijay
and yes drektor too has to deal with the consequences of his actions. Will they probably negatively impact his character sure. It's a two way street. But again these are just my opinions.

I'm not sure why you are posting about this then.

He roleplays an asshole you say?

We are calling him as such, bringing such behavior to the attention of many and hoping he has a less than splendorific time in the future.

Whats the problem? Like you say its a perfectly allowed path for him to take and so is people in general deciding to treat him accordingly.

No story for you here. Nothing to see. Move along.

[Sean]

Because your making an IC situation and OOC situation?

[Edited on 7-22-2003 by Tijay]

[Betheny]

Yeah, I would think OOC anger would come around when something you've worked hard for and lost on accident or through stupidity is taken from you and held for ransom.

Sometimes things happen that'll piss someone off as a player, it's inevitable. You invest X amount of time in a game and someone fucks you out of something you worked hard for...

[Sean]

anyways with that being said. I was just posting my opinion and responding to sintik. You're welcome to not read my posts if you dont like my opinion but i have every right as you to post them. I simply asked a question about a situation i feel is rather hipocritical.

[Sean]

Originally posted by Maimara
Yeah, I would think OOC anger would come around when something you've worked hard for and lost on accident or through stupidity is taken from you and held for ransom.

Sometimes things happen that'll piss someone off as a player, it's inevitable. You invest X amount of time in a game and someone fucks you out of something you worked hard for...

What effect do you think breakage and dr points will have?

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Tijay
Because your making an IC situation and OOC situation?

[Edited on 7-22-2003 by Tijay]


Puh-leeze.

There are SO many ways to IC explain how tales of someone who takes advantage of others misfortunes make the rounds.

Cut the whining.

Want to RP a jerk? Great, knock yourself out. Just no whining please when people step over your corpse rather than leaping to your aid. It would be *far* more ooc to aid such a person for any of my characters than to let them rot.

[Sean]

wait .. are you asking me to cut the whining? what exactly did i whine about? i mean this is just gonna run around in circles because it seems to me like your whining about me posting an opinion you didnt like

[Betheny]

People are going to get just as mad :) Someone might want to make a pre-emptive folder.

But I personally think there's a huge difference between losing something due to MECHANICS and some guy picking up your weapon and telling you to cough up the silvers or he'll sell it.

Because on one hand, there isn't a guy standing there and holding it and smiling.

[Scott]

He's answering what I said, how is he whining?

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Tijay
wait .. are you asking me to cut the whining? what exactly did i whine about? i mean this is just gonna run around in circles because it seems to me like your whining about me posting an opinion you didnt like

Not telling you, but rather him and anyone who would complain if he found life less happy for at least the near future. I'm saying that he would have no room to complain about any poor receptions he may have.

Have the stones to back up your choice of rp is all.

Like or hate porcell you have to admit he doesn't whine about people knowing that he steals and slapping every container closed when they see him. Did many hear of his actions on the BBS? I'm sure they may have, but he totaly seems to understand how someone's reputation for less than chivalrous behavior could preceed him.

[Sumone]

Originally posted by Gemstone101
Their are limitations. What if I wanted to be a thief sorcerer, should I give everyone the itches, steal their weapons and say "I'm roleplaying" when I get called up by a GM? Stealing someones weapon and saying you did it because "your roleplaying" is just an excuse to make money, which is what he's trying to do. I'm hoping I come across him and his weapon on the ground so I can steal it....

The difference is Drektor didn't steal the weapon by abusing a skill. He merely picked the item up.

It is IC. He gives the target a chance to recover their weapon thus opening an avenue for interaction. They have 3 choices. They can buy the item. They can try roleplaying another way of getting the item. Finally, they can say, "I already accepted the fact that the weapon is no longer in my posession. For that price, you can keep it."

People may get upset about losing an item they worked hard to gain. However, they lost it because they were not careful not because Drektor picked up an item he found discarded on the ground. If an item in a video game means that much, maybe a break from the game is in order.

[Bobmuhthol]

Did you notice GemStone has no videos? Heh.

--If an item in a video game means that much, maybe a break from the game is in order.

[Scott]

Originally posted by Sumone

Originally posted by Gemstone101
Their are limitations. What if I wanted to be a thief sorcerer, should I give everyone the itches, steal their weapons and say "I'm roleplaying" when I get called up by a GM? Stealing someones weapon and saying you did it because "your roleplaying" is just an excuse to make money, which is what he's trying to do. I'm hoping I come across him and his weapon on the ground so I can steal it....

The difference is Drektor didn't steal the weapon by abusing a skill. He merely picked the item up.

It is IC. He gives the target a chance to recover their weapon thus opening an avenue for interaction. They have 3 choices. They can buy the item. They can try roleplaying another way of getting the item. Finally, they can say, "I already accepted the fact that the weapon is no longer in my posession. For that price, you can keep it."

People may get upset about losing an item they worked hard to gain. However, they lost it because they were not careful not because Drektor picked up an item he found discarded on the ground. If an item in a video game means that much, maybe a break from the game is in order.

But there should be the option "I'm going to kill this guy over and over again until he gives me my weapon back." That's not an option. It's pretty IC to kill someone a bunch of times for taking my stuff. Sorry, if I have a 10x falchion that I can sell for 20m, which I can then sell for $300, he's not just stealing something in game.

[imported_Kranar]

You should be able to steal people's weapons that are the ground. Otherwise what's the point of having them drop in the first place?

You should be able to kill someone over and over until they return your weapon. Otherwise it's extremely unfair and unjust.

All this will be solved, atleast for me anyways, when Gemstone The Fallen arrives.

[Bobmuhthol]

When GS: TF arrives, you'll be killed by everyone. So will everyone else. 100 deaths will occur per second.

[imported_Kranar]

My honest position is that if someone picks up a weapon from the ground, they have every right to do so. It's incredibly cheap and in bad taste to do so, but it's even worse to go to the GMs about it and ask them to forcefully return your item back to you.

Honestly, what's the point of having critters disarm if your weapon isn't in any risk because you can just go to a GM and get it back. I'd prefer a game where if someone or a group of people returned items back to a character, they did so purely for RP reasons, and purely because they want to be nice. Not because a GM can threaten them with a warning or ban them.

Anyhow, do hate Drektor for doing this. It's not like he's trying to be your friend by stealing from you. Just don't go to the GMs about it, deal with in the game.

[Edaarin]

If you bring your 10x falchion into an invasion, you're retarded and deserve to get it taken away.

[Scott]

Originally posted by Edaarin
If you bring your 10x falchion into an invasion, you're retarded and deserve to get it taken away.

The first time I died in the invasion was when I first came into the game. I had no idea there was an invasion, I just popped into the game and whatever the hell with the 640AS took my head off. I guess I'm retarded for having 10x gear and entering the game..... Thankfully, nothing was stolen.

[Betheny]

Isn't breakage supposed to fix some of that, to an extent? The way it was explained to me, is it would help balance the game out by making it more difficult to purchase/maintain a high enchant weapon... thus making them less desireable.

[Bobmuhthol]

It's more costly to repair them when they do break. I think you might need a special repairer, too. That's what really makes them less desirable.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Taernath
In this case though, there are no consequences for him because of silly policy limitations. He has our items but we can't kill him like the thief he is. The GMs should either force him to return the items, or step back and let us handle this ourselves.



(Sorry if this has already been addressed, I'm on page 2 of 4 right now)

Who says you can't kill him?

The problem with most people in game is that they look beyond their character. You dropped your sword (which in my opinion is stupid anyways... but let's discuss that elsewhere) and a dirty rotten thief picked it up.

To quote Hulk Hogan "Whacha gonna do"

How would your character handle the situation? If your character is someone who doesn't take crap from anyone and can back it up... why wouldn't you kill him and demand it's return? If your character is a pacifist.. why would you not beg for the thief to have pity on you and return your property? If you roleplay a merchant, why would you not simply offer him a reward for it's return?

PvP is against policy.. that is 100% correct.

CvC is not against policy.

If it's within your character's ESTABLISHED roleplay to attack someone for crimes against you.. then dammit, stop hiding behind policy and do it already.

"But I don't want to get in trouble!"

Then simply use REPORT:

REPORT Drektar picked up my weapon after it was disarmed by a jant and refuses to give it back. My character isn't one that would take no as an answer, so if you see Drektar going down, you can rest assure it's being roleplayed out. Thanks.

I've never once heard a GM say "There is no attacking any other characters in game for any reason. Period" If that was the case, the mechanics of all spells and combat could easily be changed to do that.

[GS4Gurl]

Thats the best post yet on the subject, Parkbandit. So if hes got your weapon give him a chance to give it back. If he doesn't kill him. That's what my character would do if she was old enough and he had her weapon. Drektor is like old though so It may be hard for some. However, if everyone who lost an item that he stole came together and lynched him well then maybe that would definately help. :)

Lynch him! Lynch him! :bounce:

[StrayRogue]

I can see where Drektor is coming from. Granted its a bit of a bastard thing to do, but it certainly teaches them a lesson. Personally, I'd try and RP something around giving a weapon back. Nothing in this world is free...

[Scott]

You can kill him. But how many times is acceptable? If you kill him more then once, I'm sure your going to find yourself in trouble. If there was no rule, I would continue to kill him until he gave me my weapon back and BEGS me to stop, or he was deeded, and thats how it should be. However, no GM will allow that.

[Edited on 7-22-2003 by Gemstone101]

[vigilante]

Originally posted by Tijay
someone brought up a good point .. how would you rather see him rp a thief and opportunist? after all everyone says its a roleplaying game instead of a rollplaying game .. so tell me? if you were in his shoes and you rped a thief .. how would you do it?

See Porcell, or Jesh, or ANY of the best roleplayed rogues since the lands inception. I guarantee you they'd find a creative way to return the item and remain true to their character. Rogue does not have to mean scumbucket asshole.

[Taernath]

Originally posted by ParkbanditWho says you can't kill him?

PvP is against policy.. that is 100% correct.

CvC is not against policy.

"I've never once heard a GM say "There is no attacking any other characters in game for any reason. Period" If that was the case, the mechanics of all spells and combat could easily be changed to do that.

Current policy is that picking someone's weapon up off the ground and keeping it/selling it is not against the rules. However, retaliating against the thieves IS. You could probably get -one- death before the GMs pull you up, but what's 1 5k deed compared to a weapon worth millions?

Originally posted by Gemstone101
But there should be the option "I'm going to kill this guy over and over again until he gives me my weapon back." That's not an option.

Well, if someone grabbed one of my weapons during an invasion and offered to sell it to me, I would continually kill them until it was returned.

I seem to remember a thread about Summir's shield a while back where Whatley had said that was acceptable. I'm too lazy to look it up, but I think they'd have a hard time giving you a warning for something as IC as trying to get your blade back from a looter.

[Taernath]

Whatley doesn't write policy. GMs later refused his interpretation.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Rogue does not have to mean scumbucket asshole.>>

Yeah, it does. Rogues are thieves, deceitful, and unreliable, among others. I'm sick of people whining about the stereotype that rogues are like that. It's not a stereotype. You aren't a rogue unless you cheat, steal, and lie constantly.

Originally posted by Taernath
Whatley doesn't write policy. GMs later refused his interpretation.

That's not how I remember it. Edgeleaf just spent too much time REPORTing and trying to cover his ass. Of course the GM's aren't going to condone it if you wave it under their nose. He was trying to get a GM to say, "Go ahead, you have my approval to repeatedly kill Zurrain." Not going to happen.

I would just keep killing the person, or itchy cursing them, until I had the weapon returned, or a GM told me to stop.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Taernath

Originally posted by ParkbanditWho says you can't kill him?

PvP is against policy.. that is 100% correct.

CvC is not against policy.

"I've never once heard a GM say "There is no attacking any other characters in game for any reason. Period" If that was the case, the mechanics of all spells and combat could easily be changed to do that.

Current policy is that picking someone's weapon up off the ground and keeping it/selling it is not against the rules. However, retaliating against the thieves IS. You could probably get -one- death before the GMs pull you up, but what's 1 5k deed compared to a weapon worth millions?

I've never heard of anyone get in trouble for roleplaying a conflict out.

Roleplaying being the key word.

Can you deed someone over a lost sword? Why? What's a weapon worth a couple million compared to a lost character?

[imported_Kranar]

I'm more than sure if you roleplayed out the conflict and that resulted in killing the other guy, the GMs won't warn you for it.

It's just... by now people should come to realize that jumping in and trying to kill a thief nonstop is not only poor RP, but futile. It's already a known fact that people don't take death too seriously in Gemstone, so why would someone expect that repeatedly killing another will result in them getting their item back?

Originally posted by Kranar
I'm more than sure if you roleplayed out the conflict and that resulted in killing the other guy, the GMs won't warn you for it.

It's just... by now people should come to realize that jumping in and trying to kill a thief nonstop is not only poor RP, but futile. It's already a known fact that people don't take death too seriously in Gemstone, so why would someone expect that repeatedly killing another will result in them getting their item back?

Well, after a point I would stop hunting them. At that point I would just kill them every time we crossed paths, but wouldn't go out of my way to make them miserable.

I'm certainly not just going to let them get away with it scot-free. That would be OOC.

[Bobmuhthol]

What the hell are you talking about? It's out-of-character to not take action against someone who picked up an item? I see people picking stuff up all the time, and I don't say a word about it. I don't understand how you can possibly say it's OOC to just leave the issue alone.

[imported_Kranar]

Well I'm not saying leave the issue alone. I'm just saying killing the individual isn't exactly an effective means of getting ones item back, if that's truly what one wishes. If a player simply wishes to feel better and killing the theif makes them feel a bit relieved, then that's another issue.

I know if I were a jerk and stole someones 10x weapon, they would be free to kill me whenever. A 15 million silver item is worth what? About 100000 deeds? When you really think about it, killing someone over and over is just a waste of ones time. It won't help one get the item backt and any satisfaction it MAY grant is only temporary and eventually it becomes frustrating.

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
What the hell are you talking about? It's out-of-character to not take action against someone who picked up an item? I see people picking stuff up all the time, and I don't say a word about it. I don't understand how you can possibly say it's OOC to just leave the issue alone.

No, but you have it backwards. If someone had picked up my blade after it was lost in battle, and then came to me to try to sell it back to me, I would kill them repeatedly and/or until the weapon was returned.

That's my character. It would be OUT OF CHARACTER for me to kill them once and then say "Oh well, nothing I can do about it, I hope they enjoy my weapon."

I've been disarmed before during an invasion. Drektor picked it up and gave it right back to me in that instance.

[vigilante]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
<<Rogue does not have to mean scumbucket asshole.>>

Yeah, it does. Rogues are thieves, deceitful, and unreliable, among others. I'm sick of people whining about the stereotype that rogues are like that. It's not a stereotype. You aren't a rogue unless you cheat, steal, and lie constantly.

Can you read?? "Does not have to mean..." Read it again until you understand it.
.

Rogue does not equal thief.

.

Even if it did, there would still be a way for a rogue of your description to find a way to roleplay getting that weapon back. There are a few situations where roleplay needs to take a back seat, in my opinion. This is one of them.

[Bobmuhthol]

Rogues are always thieves, liars, cheaters, and unreliable... but they don't HAVE to be scumbucket assholes? You can read, but you sure as hell don't know what you're talking about.

[vigilante]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
Rogues are always thieves, liars, cheaters, and unreliable... but they don't HAVE to be scumbucket assholes? You can read, but you sure as hell don't know what you're talking about.

Rogue: a mischievous person.
Thief: one that steals, especially secretly.

source: Merriam-Webster's Desk Dictionary.

It seems you need to learn to read AND comprehend.

[Bobmuhthol]

Rogue: An unprincipled, deceitful, and unreliable person; a scoundrel or rascal.

Thief: One who steals, especially by stealth.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition

[Edited to add: The verb form is to defraud. Making rogues swindlers.]

[Edited on 7-22-2003 by Bobmuhthol]

[vigilante]

Thank your reinforcing my point with those definitions. They pretty much say it all.

[Bobmuhthol]

They say that rogues are liars, cheaters, and stealers.

[vigilante]

Hmm, nope, don't see stealers anywhere around the definition of rogue. Oops. Try again.

[Bobmuhthol]

Well.. uhh.. they uhh.. they swindle! That's stealing! Let's see you defend yourself against that, smart guy.

[CrystalTears]

Vigilante now you're just nitpicking to be a brat. Rogues are deceitful, unreliable scoundrels, which may include, but not limited to, stealing and lying. Cut the crap with the dictionary definitions since they just proved Bob's point. Sheesh.

[vigilante]

Swindle means to cheat or defraud. It's in the neighborhood. It isn't straight out stealing. I know it sounds like semantics, but it is an important distinction. Many rogues prefer themselves to be known as a rogue rather than a 'thief' because the difference, although subtle, is very real.

A rogue can be quite honest. Witty, intelligent, charming. A thief, I will agree with Bob, can be nothing but a thief. But don't confuse the two.

[CrystalTears]

Rogues in a general and stereotypical sense, are deceitful, swindling, stealthy and sneaky people. Whether they choose to use those to their advantage for good or bad is irrelevant. They have the capability to be the best thieves. Just because there are some that aren't doesn't mean that they all aren't. Rogues who don't wish to be known as thieves have to prove themselves to be otherwise, not the other way around.

[Bobmuhthol]

Witty, intelligent, and charming are common characteristics of manipulaters. The rogue stereotypes are terrible. I couldn't come up with a description for my hat myself, so I asked Polto to create one that was sort of rogue-ish. He gave me a hat with scarabs on it. I almost cried and asked him to do it over.

[vigilante]

Found another for swindle, straight out of the Oxford dictionary: verb- cheat in a business transaction.

Again, that's a far cry from straight out pilfering or stealing.

[Bobmuhthol]

Swindle is commonly known as taking advantage of your charisma and/or self-control to gain wealth. Business transaction or not, using your charm and wit for wealth is swindling.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I'm listening, but I'm not hearing you.

Or something.

[vigilante]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
Witty, intelligent, and charming are common characteristics of manipulaters. The rogue stereotypes are terrible. I couldn't come up with a description for my hat myself, so I asked Polto to create one that was sort of rogue-ish. He gave me a hat with scarabs on it. I almost cried and asked him to do it over.

I agree with you. Stereotypes are bad. Which is why I disagreed with your original assertion that rogues have to be assholes. We've come full circle.

[CrystalTears]

:lol: This is just laughable now. Fine.. Bob just tell him that rogues are not thieves so that we can have a decent conversation again please. :rolleyes:

[Bobmuhthol]

Okey doke. Rogues ain't no mofo thieves, beeatch!

[vigilante]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
Vigilante now you're just nitpicking to be a brat. Rogues are deceitful, unreliable scoundrels, which may include, but not limited to, stealing and lying. Cut the crap with the dictionary definitions since they just proved Bob's point. Sheesh.

I disagree. They uphold that a rogue and a thief are not the same. Sometimes subtle differences are the most significant.

[vigilante]

Here's Bob's original quote:

"It's not a stereotype. You aren't a rogue unless you cheat, steal, and lie constantly."

Laughable.

[CrystalTears]

I'll just agree to disagree since we won't ever see eye to eye on this issue.

[GS4Gurl]

I wonder if Drektor knows about this thread. I would like to hear his point of view on it, since he is the one in question.

[imported_Kranar]

<< A rogue can be quite honest. >>

Okay, you're now just nit-picking.

In the same post where you talk about rogues swindling, defrauding and cheating others, you state that they can be honest?

So basically you're saying that a rogue can be an honest cheater/defrauder.

If you are trying to convince us of that, then you are a true rogue.

[Edited on 7-22-2003 by Kranar]

[vigilante]

A rogue CAN BE quite honest, not WILL BE, SHALL BE, IS, ISN'T or some other derivative. It's possible for a rogue to be honest once in a while. Bob would have you think it is impossible for one to be honest.

This whole part of the thread began when someone suggested that Drektor was simply doing what a rogue has to do. I simply pointed out that a rogue is not mandated to act one way simply because of their profession title. That's just silly.

[Bobmuhthol]

You're correct, Vigilante. But that's only valid in GemStone. And only if you take GemStone lightly (which is what 99% of people do). To be a Rogue, one is mandated to act a certain way. To call yourself a Rogue, you can do whatever the hell you want, but you're not a Rogue; you just call yourself one. In GemStone, all it is is an insignificant title. But that's not the way it really goes. Rogues aren't honest. Any Rogue in GemStone that is honest is just a Rogue for the professional benefits. They aren't roleplaying at all.

[vigilante]

I'm glad we are nearing common ground. However, your last sentence gives me pause. It is perfectly logical that a lying, evil, deceitful, bastardly, swindling, conniving rogue (who chooses to play a thief)...

.


...can have a change of heart. Find religion, a good woman, an order, what have you. It would be just as silly for said rogue to reject his change of heart simply because of his professional methods.

[imported_Kranar]

<< I simply pointed out that a rogue is not mandated to act one way simply because of their profession title. >>

Of all the professions in Gemstone that would pull of a sneaky and dirty trick like this, the rogue is the one that comes to mind. Not the empath, not the cleric, not even the sorcerer, but the rogue.

So if someone says that Drektor is being a typical rogue, I see no oxymoron. Infact, it makes perfect sense to me.

[Sean]

porcells never given me back any of the gems hes stolen .. if your going to steal them why would you give them back?

[Back]

porcells never given me back any of the gems hes stolen .. if your going to steal them why would you give them back?

And to screw with peoples heads even further... Porcell dragged my dead corpse from the landing and gave me my weapon back after he killed the Jant. <noodlebake>

[Apollyon]

Actually, you can play a rogue who doesn't lie, and is honest. Just like Captain Jack Sparrow! Would you say he is not a roguish type? But throughout the movie he never lied, like they say "It's the honest ones you have to watch out for"

[Bobmuhthol]

No, he wasn't a rogue. He was a pirate.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Apollyon
Actually, you can play a rogue who doesn't lie, and is honest. Just like Captain Jack Sparrow! Would you say he is not a roguish type? But throughout the movie he never lied, like they say "It's the honest ones you have to watch out for"

Uh, he was going to use William Turner to get back his ship. Honest? He stole the money from the guy at the dock, stole a piece of gold, stole SHIPS! Not a thief? But he told the truth that he was going to steal a ship. Oh well that explains everything. :rolleyes:

[Apollyon]

Pirates and rogues are pretty much the same thing. Minus the boats. If I was to make a pirate-like character, he'd be a rogue.

[Meriman]

Meriman is a rogue, he CAN steal, he CAN hide, stalk pick locks disarm ambush and whatever else you associate with rogues. He doesn't have to, that's like saying all sorcerers have to be evil. Why? Cause you don't feel that a sorc can be nice just because of their spells?

An unprincipled, deceitful, and unreliable person; a scoundrel or rascal.

One who is playfully mischievous; a scamp.

A wandering beggar; a vagrant

Those are three definitions of Rogues, you don't HAVE to be the first.

I roleplay a kindhearted person, I never Lie, I don't steal, I am quite mischievous
and I like to think everyone has fun.

Being a rogue doesn't mean you have to be scum or your not roleplaying your character correctly.

It's my character, he acts the way I think he should. You deciding how my character acts isn't my roleplay, you want a piece of scum as a rogue and don't like mine, make your own and do what you want otherwise let me have the ohhh Freedom of expression to do what I want with mine.

If this post isn't perfect I've been up for a coupla days and aren't on the ball, but I did feel like putting my two cents in.

[Bobmuhthol]

Sure, you may not fit the first definition, but you're not a scamp or a beggar, either. So there's three definitions of a rogue. You aren't any of them. I'd say that accounts for what I've previously said: if you don't roleplay a rogue, then you're going out-of-character by being a rogue at all.

[CrystalTears]

Being a rogue does not mean that you have to be a jerk or an asshole. If you want to use Jack Sparrow as an example, he was a very good person. He saved her from drowning, he likes to help, looks out for his crew... an essentially fun character. That doesn't mean that he doesn't lie, cheat or steal. He's the essense of a rogue.

Rogues are manipulative creatures and they'll use it to their benefit in some way. So I'm in agreement with Bob in that playing a rogue all cute and nice and not having the characteristics of a true rogue is only using the profession for the stats and not truly roleplaying it.

[Edited on 7/23/2003 by CrystalTears]

[CrystalTears]

It's not a blanket statement, it just happens to be the definition of a rogue and how most rogues are written and played in fiction media. You can play your character any way you want, but what people are trying to explain is that playing a truly honest and good rogue is going against the grain of the intention of playing a rogue and therefore considered not really roleplaying the part. It doesn't mean you aren't roleplaying, just that the "rogue" part isn't.

I knew eventually someone would bring up the title issue, and I'm not fond that they added them. They should have eliminated them entirely because they don't mean anything.

[vigilante]

Yeah, Lord Knightfall was one unbelievable rogue. What were the Gryphons thinking, inviting him to be thier friend?

[vigilante]

their too *cough* Sorry Bob!

[Parkbandit]

Great part of this game is that there are always exception to the rule.

While I agree with the loose 'definition' of what a rogue is... I find it easy to believe that there are some locksmiths out there that are honest and honorable.

[StrayRogue]

I play a rogue more as a sorcerer than as the typical thief scoundrel type. Hell, as already stated, there are exceptions to every-rule. I know warrior wizards, and paladin sorcerers. The fact that GS is pretty much a free-form system in that you can train in ANY skill, makes the game highly customizable. If you want to play the stereotype, I suggest AD&D.

[vigilante]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
I play a rogue more as a sorcerer than as the typical thief scoundrel type. Hell, as already stated, there are exceptions to every-rule. I know warrior wizards, and paladin sorcerers. The fact that GS is pretty much a free-form system in that you can train in ANY skill, makes the game highly customizable. If you want to play the stereotype, I suggest AD&D.

Well said.

[Soulpieced]

I play a rogue more as a sorcerer than as the typical thief scoundrel type. Hell, as already stated, there are exceptions to every-rule. I know warrior wizards, and paladin sorcerers. The fact that GS is pretty much a free-form system in that you can train in ANY skill, makes the game highly customizable. If you want to play the stereotype, I suggest AD&D.

.

Unfortunately, people in GS are very closed-minded. You can't imagine how many rogues get angry, and even pissed off that I pick boxes even in their presence.

[Bobmuhthol]

They're embarrassed that a bard can outpick their asses.

[vigilante]

"Unfortunately, people in GS are very closed-minded. "

Understatement of the year!

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
They're embarrassed that a bard can outpick their asses.

A same age rogue will always be able to outpick any other same aged 'amateur'.

That's like saying you are embarrassed that Drizzsdt can out hunt you Bob.

[Bestatte]

Rogue, like Warrior and Empath and everything else, is nothing more than a set of skills you pick in chargen for your character to train in.

Even though the game documents call them "professions," they're not professions - unless you choose to roleplay them as such.

You -do- however generally pick one or another skill set specifically because it lowers the cost of certain skills and raises others, which implies that you have some intention of training primarily in those things.

This will make you skilled with certain things generally attrituted to one or another profession, but again unless you roleplay that this is your chosen vocation, it doesn't identify you as that profession.

One of my characters (very short lived, an experiment) was code-wise a warrior. She didn't hunt though. I decided she should be one of the street-sweepers in the Landing, and she spent most of her time walking around the town picking up boxes and throwing them away, cleaning up the trash. She earned her money by selling anything sellable at the pawnshop, and basically didn't interact much with too many people because street-cleaners are supposed to be just background atmosphere and not someone's buddy.

For a level 2 character (she made it in and out of all the exp-gaining rooms at level 0 and ran a few odd jobs for Moot Hall), she had some pretty decent fame, considering she did -zero- hunting at all.

I trained her in perception and a couple of the defensive skills, and carried over all the other points because she had no need for them.

There is -nothing- in the documentation of Gemstone saying that you have to gain levels at all. It's just one option. A popular option, but still nothing more than one option of many.

It was pretty sad that people would ask her what she hunts and be surprised when she said she didn't hunt. They would try to tell her "well you're supposed to, you're a warrior" - and when she'd ask what gave them that idea, they'd say that they "saw" it on her.

I don't know how it is that people can "see" someone's profession, even before the profession titles became optional. The characters aren't looking at a paragraph of text on a computer screen. But most of the players just didn't quite grasp that notion, unfortunately.

Maybe more people should stop and think about what their *characters* are doing rather than what the players are reading. It would certainly add to their own enjoyment and give themselves more depth in their surroundings.

[Soulpieced]

Outpick has nothing to do with it. With a somewhat decent stream of boxes, I can easily stay fried/numb. I have 40 ranks of picking and disarming, can pick up to about -330/580 and disarm -120/250. Can probably see traps up to almost -600. Hardly huge numbers by "old" rogue standards, but good enough to pick pretty much anything under 50. Which is usually 95% of the boxes I would usually get in the east tower.

[Bobmuhthol]

I think there's a locksmith title for Rogues. Be a Locksmith, but you can't use any other rogue-like title. Then it becomes OOC.

[Wethalhalas]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
You're correct, Vigilante. But that's only valid in GemStone. And only if you take GemStone lightly (which is what 99% of people do). To be a Rogue, one is mandated to act a certain way. To call yourself a Rogue, you can do whatever the hell you want, but you're not a Rogue; you just call yourself one. In GemStone, all it is is an insignificant title. But that's not the way it really goes. Rogues aren't honest. Any Rogue in GemStone that is honest is just a Rogue for the professional benefits. They aren't roleplaying at all.

This is coming straight from the GS Info page on Professions...
Specialists in maneuvering and manipulation, Rogues have an easy time learning many skills, such as stalk and hide, pick locks, detect and disarm traps, climbing, perception, searching and ambushing. With all of these skills, Rogues make excellent scouts, lookouts and hunters. They are fairly adept with weapons and heavier armor, second only to warriors. They may also learn how to use spells and magical devices more easily than warriors. In most societies within GemStone III, the Rogue is as honorable a profession as any other.

You're arguing a point that is not only useless, but completely incorrect... as has been proven by the aforementioned paragraph on the rogue profession.

Oh, and to stem your further arguments before they come...
"But the dictionary says a rogue is <definition you used earlier> and that's what matters, so I'm right."
Wrong. We're talking about GemStone here, so GemStone's definition is what matters.
Another possible argument you may make: "Die, Weth." At which point I'll answer with a resounding, "Eat shit."

Now, I believe this argument is closed.

[Betheny]

Die, Weth. You just die and go to hell.

Nah... I don't think one's chosen profession should dictate how they act. Because if that was true... it would mean all empaths should be happy and helpful. It would mean all clerics would have to raise whoever wanted them to. It would mean warriors have to act like stupid brutes... it would mean that sorcerers would have to act like arrogant, stuffy jerks... Rangers would have to be tree-hugging Imaera freaks, bards would have to sing and dance all day, and wizards... eh. Who the hell knows what wizards do.

[Bobmuhthol]

No, no, no. There's a huge difference with your argument and the argument that rogues are liars and cheaters and everything else. Empaths may be an exception.

Clerics aren't resurrecters. Clerics are clergymen. Being religious and bringing life to the dead aren't exactly the same thing.

Warriors are not stupid brutes. Warriors are just masters of weaponry. Does that make them stupid? No, it makes them good fighters.

Sorcerers don't have to be arrogant, per se. But, really, anyone who partakes in black magic is going to think they're important.

With Rangers, you took an in-game perspective, not what a Ranger really is. No, rangers don't have to be tree-hugging Imaera freaks, because rangers are wanderers. You took the argument, and argued with the opposite. Rogues are really what they aren't in-game, rangers aren't what they are in-game.

Bards don't dance. They write poems/songs. Hence the name poet. Bards are involved in combat, they're not stupid cheerful idiots. Bards compose songs of brave men and their achievements.

Wizards are bearers are supernatural knowledge and power. There's really no set standard there; they just can't act stupidly, or they'd be going against the conception that they know all.

Anyway, what was the point of this post?

[Drew2]

Originally posted by Lady Daina
Choose another 'profession' such as... oh, I don't know, empath? Since the stereotypical emapth is nice and honest... ::stare::


HA! :moon:

[Betheny]

Point of that post would be, you can't expect a 'rogue' (regardless of the 'definition' of the word rogue) to act like your stereotypical rogue. It's just dumb.

A better name for 'rogue' might be... eh. Something else.

[Zanagodly]

http://wackyweaselworld.com/gamespot/flameINC/WTF1.jpg

[Bobmuhthol]

A rogue that acts like a rogue is not stereotypical. The stereotypical rogue is an idiot who gets scarab alters and doesn't roleplay a real rogue, just a locksmith. Yet they have the attitude of, "I'm a rogue and I don't steal, whether my profession title is THIEF or not. Stop saying all rogues are thieves."

In conclusion: Stereotypes = False. Your post was contradictory.

[Betheny]

Probably.

Tired. Apathy...

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
I think there's a locksmith title for Rogues. Be a Locksmith, but you can't use any other rogue-like title. Then it becomes OOC.

Since seeing the 'title' is OOC in itself... your conclusions are flawed.

There is nothing wrong with an honest character that has chosen the Rogue profession.

[Warriorbird]

"Any Rogue in GemStone that is honest is just a Rogue for the professional benefits. They aren't roleplaying at all."

Mighty big generalization. The conversation during the Jantalarian merchant was pure roguery at its best.

:)

[Edited on 7-24-2003 by Warriorbird]

[StrayRogue]

"Bobs comment"

Thats the biggest pile of shit comment I have ever heard. Does Blades strike you as a Rogue. I know Sorcerer's who can pick and steal better than him. You are saying anyone who doesn't play up to your own narrow-minded preconception of what a rogue is, isn't RPing well??

Well Bob, for I don't see you as a warrior, and I don't think any of the older "true" warriors as they once were would either. By your ignorant perception this must mean you don't RP well or at all.

[CrystalTears]

I won't really speak for Bob (he does plenty of that on his own :D) but I think I know where the misunderstanding in this disagreement lies.

Gemstone's use of the professions is for people to choose a set of stats and skills for them to train in. It's not necessarily the profession that you have to roleplay. Now roleplaying and saying you are a rogue and being honest and good and not taking on the characteristics of a rogue by definition isn't in fact a rogue. Saying you are a rogue because you chose that profession in the mangler is what some are arguing. If you don't cheat or steal and just pick boxes, then you're just a locksmith, not a rogue.

Do I think rogues needs to cheat, lie and steal? No. Do I think they should have one of them? Yes. Do I think they're manipulative, deceitful creatures who do things to gain themselves advantages? Yes.

Disregard the titles that are at the end of your name in the syntax because that's irrelevant and pretty meaningless.

[Bobmuhthol]

Titles are not irrelevant. Showing your title as Thief and complaining that Rogues are not Thieves isn't exactly roleplay.

[Back]

Or just turn your title off and call yourself whatever you want.

[StrayRogue]

Thats exactly what I do. And just say I roleplay the warrior (still being, technically, a rogue), and I roleplay a good warrior. Suddenly, if its revealed I am actually a rogue, does this mean I have RPed badly? I don't think so.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
Titles are not irrelevant. Showing your title as Thief and complaining that Rogues are not Thieves isn't exactly roleplay.

Falgrin's title says "Bandit"... but that doesn't mean a complete stranger should walk up to him and accuse him of stealing.

The great part of stereotypes is that you can always find an exception to the 'rule'.

[Dighn Darkbeam]

I know a healer that has grown tired of his profession and got a Rogue guild tattoo and picks boxes. It is quite amusing what he does when someone starts in with the guild speak.

A good question to ask is does anyone know if Drektor has reported or warned against anyone who has killed him for 'taking' their weapons? I think he should be free to keep weapons he finds on the ground as long as he doesnt resort to reporting or warning anyone that kills him repeatedly for doing so. Policy be damned, he knows its yours and he wont give it back without payment. Kill him.

Titles are a very tricky issue. Perhaps the game would be better off if they were never added. Yet, now having them people would feel robbed if they could not display their Great lord or Bob the Warlock titles. They are OOC, you cant know someone is a Great Lord or a warlock just by looking at them. You could guess, but would you be right every time? Same goes with names. It doesnt make sense to know someones name, and most wont RP that they do, but its too chaotic to just call everyone elf, halfling, ect.

In the end, if he stole from Dighn, I would deal with it IC but I would still kill him every time I saw him. As for the use of Itchy curse, I would most likely use it had I the chance. I would continue to try to kill or get back my item/s until I did, he was dead (deeded), or I was permanently banned. As others have said, it would be grossly OOC for someone to violate your character in such a way and not go after him with every scrap of ability you could summon.

Kris na Su'ta