So... New Cleric player needs some help

[HSB]

Where's a good place to go for advice on playing a cleric? I've recently acquired a mid-50s dwarven one and am anxious to play around with him, but have never played a cleric higher than about 15 trains. Used to be there were guides for just about every profession, but the ones that I've found are horrifically out of date.

Pretty much looking for the most common build(s), hunting style, pitfalls to watch out for, common mistakes people make, things like that. Anyone who can point me in the right direction (or who wants to be awesome and take the time to hash through those point here), I would be extremely grateful.

[Ryvicke]

Hate to say it but the cleric boards on the officials are pretty solid. I made some posts a few months back that were under POLL that had a bunch of opinions on lore training/spell aiming and usefulness of attack spells other than 302 as well as utility spells. If you have any specific questions I've pretty much dorked out on the cleric mechanics stuff for the past 7 months.

[HSB]

Per advice, I'm scouring the officials and finding quite a bit of good data. Lemme throw out a basic question, though... swinging or pure? I know with bards people say "Well, you CAN swing a weapon... or you can pwn once you get enough mana". Is there a threshold like that for clerics? Like... once you get enough mana to sustain spell XYZ, then it's almost silly to keep swinging?

Aaaaand just found a thread on the officials dedicated to that very question. It's so rare I find a USEFUL board on those forums that I hardly ever look. Very nice surprise.

[Bhuryn]

They're alot like empaths in that you can probably do both, you just won't be adding in much of the extra stuff that makes casting more powerful (3x spells, etc) if you decide to train THW and CM.

[HSB]

So... this is what I'm considering and I'd really like some feedback, if it's not too much trouble.


Race: Dwarf Profession: Cleric (not shown)
Gender: Male Age: 52 Expr: 3108895 Level: 56
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 90 (30) ... 90 (30)
Constitution (CON): 77 (28) ... 56 (18)
Dexterity (DEX): 58 (4) ... 58 (4)
Agility (AGI): 61 (0) ... 61 (0)
Discipline (DIS): 86 (28) ... 86 (28)
Aura (AUR): 99 (14) ... 99 (14)
Logic (LOG): 83 (21) ... 83 (21)
Intuition (INT): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Wisdom (WIS): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Influence (INF): 70 (0) ... 70 (0)
Mana: 180 Silver: 0

And this is what I'm considering:

Armor Use: 4 ranks
Perception: 20 ranks
Harness Power: 58 ranks
Spirit Mana Control: 58 ranks
Major Spirit: 25 spells
Minor Spirit: 30 spells
Cleric: 100 spells
SL: Blessings: 30 ranks
SL: Religion: 65 ranks
SL: Summoning: 15 ranks
Climbing: 45 ranks
Swimming: 35 ranks
Physical Fitness: 20 ranks

I want to: Wear full leather, use warding only spells (and do so effectively), make perfect chrisms, be able to follow around my main to the gnarlier areas, and be able to hunt a bit above my level.

Will that training plan get me where I want to be? Is there anything in there that I don't really need? Or is there something crucial I'm leaving out (like AS and MIU?)

[Mikalmas]

And this is what I'm considering:

Armor Use: 4 ranks
Perception: 20 ranks
Harness Power: 58 ranks
Spirit Mana Control: 58 ranks
Major Spirit: 25 spells
Minor Spirit: 30 spells
Cleric: 100 spells
SL: Blessings: 30 ranks
SL: Religion: 65 ranks
SL: Summoning: 15 ranks
Climbing: 45 ranks
Swimming: 35 ranks
Physical Fitness: 20 ranks

I want to: Wear full leather, use warding only spells (and do so effectively), make perfect chrisms, be able to follow around my main to the gnarlier areas, and be able to hunt a bit above my level.

Will that training plan get me where I want to be? Is there anything in there that I don't really need? Or is there something crucial I'm leaving out (like AS and MIU?)


Hmm. Let's see. Level+20 in the cleric circle is going to be all the CS boost you really need til cap. If you're going to be a pure caster, you'll definately want access to 240, which is excellent for overhunting (and bounty tasks, makes grizzled creature tasks MUCH easier, escort tasks, too).

I'd say 40-50 ranks of religion lore is generally considered pretty solid, too. 40 will give you the third frame of attacks from 319. Most people don't bother to go over that, the returns for doing so are minimal. Use the extra ranks in SMC (to reduce the wait time between frames of 319) or in blessings to get closer to the magic 66 for chrisms.

PF to 24 ranks to max health (right?)

HP at 1x? Eh, if you can survive on that. Are you in COL? If so, you might make it on 1x with the extra mana from wracking.

AS and MIU, yes, you'll want both of those, especailly because they're cheap and if you're going to use a runestaff you'll probably need the magic ranks. You're 3xing spells, which is ridiculously expensive. I wouldn't do more than 2.5x until cap personally. Use those extra points from spells for singling MIU/AS.

[HSB]

I'd say 40-50 ranks of religion lore is generally considered pretty solid, too. 40 will give you the third frame of attacks from 319. Most people don't bother to go over that, the returns for doing so are minimal. Use the extra ranks in SMC (to reduce the wait time between frames of 319) or in blessings to get closer to the magic 66 for chrisms.

For some reason, I thought I found a thread that said my mix of lores was the "perfect" recipe for the best possible chrism... is that not the case?


HP at 1x? Eh, if you can survive on that. Are you in COL? If so, you might make it on 1x with the extra mana from wracking.

I figured 1x with Wracking would carry me through... though now I'm starting to wonder. Dwarf can regenerate spirit pretty quick, though, and he's got 10 to start with.

[Ryvicke]

What Mikalmas said--you'll get more use out of summoning/blessing than religion. 40 ranks is a pretty common stopping point unless you want to do testing.

Clerics can wear doubles with no hindrance or penalty, I'm guessing maybe you just said it cause you have a nice set of fulls, but just checking.

If runestaffing for defense 1x'ing in MIU/AS is, I think, pretty necessary and cheap.

The cleric +42 you've got going on would probably be better spent bringing up MjS to get 240, drop to cleric+21. Then throw some of that religion into summoning and you're getting a spirit slayer that will be worth a lot more than the extra cleric ranks.

Also--it seems that right around 60 is the cutoff when you'll have enough mana to start throwing around some 312s and 317s pretty regularly in your hunts. 1x HP might not be sufficient (disregard if you wrack).

[Ryvicke]

For some reason, I thought I found a thread that said my mix of lores was the "perfect" recipe for the best possible chrism... is that not the case?


Chrism exp retention is based on blessings lore ranks, all you need is the requisite relgion/summoning to go along with it, the perfect chrism is achieved at 65 blessing, 25 religion, 15 summoning (according to the Carabele lore chart at least).

[Mikalmas]

Chrism exp retention is based on blessings lore ranks, all you need is the requisite relgion/summoning to go along with it, the perfect chrism is achieved at 65 blessing, 25 religion, 15 summoning (according to the Carabele lore chart at least).



Yeah, that. :)

[Mikalmas]

For some reason, I thought I found a thread that said my mix of lores was the "perfect" recipe for the best possible chrism... is that not the case?



I figured 1x with Wracking would carry me through... though now I'm starting to wonder. Dwarf can regenerate spirit pretty quick, though, and he's got 10 to start with.


Yeah, you'll probably be ok if you 1x in HP as long as you can wrack. Mikalmas has been in Voln since day 1, so I never had access to wracking (2x HP all the way). So at cap that's an extra 100 mana (total of 400).

[Asrial]

BTW, the reason why it's cleric+21 and not cleric+20 is because that extra rank is a full CS.

19 ranks = 14 CS (3/4 formula)
20 ranks = 15 CS (3/4 formula)
21 ranks = 16 CS (1/2 formula)
22 ranks = 16 CS (1/2 formula)
23 ranks = 17 CS (1/2 formula)

Also, I'm an unaligned elf in CoL and pre-70 I was 1x HP. I really didn't have too much mana problems because there was plenty of undead to use 302 on.

The ogres and vipers in the black forest area are especially susceptible to 317 crits (the boars not so much) so even there I didn't have too many mana problems.

[Mikalmas]

BTW, the reason why it's cleric+21 and not cleric+20 is because that extra rank is a full CS.


I ALWAYS forget that damn extra rank!

[deadly]

im a brawl/fu/bane cleric and im really thinking of swapping to COL i hate running out of mana at 46 it can be a bitch when im not fried and run outa mana. that damm symbol of mana taking deeds is a Fucked up way to get mana back.

[Asrial]

Yeah.. if I could make one change to Voln.. it would be to remove that deed requirement.

[Donquix]

Hopefully they will do that in the mythical voln review, due out RSN with monks, the elemental lore review, and several other projects that should have been done 2-5 years ago

[Mikalmas]

How's the cleric, HSB?

What did you ever settle on for skills?

[HSB]

How's the cleric, HSB?

What did you ever settle on for skills?

I'm loving him. I had a long talk with Paul about it all, and he gave me some advice. I've got the BPs for a fixskills if I need it, so I went with this advice:


(at level 56), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 20 4
Physical Fitness...................| 102 24
Arcane Symbols.....................| 158 58
Magic Item Use.....................| 159 59
Spell Aiming.......................| 216 116
Harness Power......................| 216 116
Spirit Mana Control................| 158 58
Spiritual Lore - Blessings.........| 120 30
Spiritual Lore - Religion..........| 156 56
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 70 15
Perception.........................| 114 28
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 120 30
First Aid..........................| 158 58

Spell Lists
Major Spirit.......................| 25

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 30

Spell Lists
Cleric.............................| 61

And so far I'm loving him. Wind wraiths are nice and easy... and I'm about to move him to Teras and take on the volcano, I think. We'll see. Maybe Wyneb. But for now I'm loving him. He builds nice strong chrisms, and can hunt self-spelled no problem. Mana is a little bit of an issue, but that's what wracking is for.

[Mikalmas]

Yeah, looks like a pretty typical build!

I'd say you're pretty solid. Very similar to what I done all the way to Nelemar. I loved bolting. Wish I could still do it. Unfortunately it just doesn't hold up in Nelemar :( It melts through vaespilons in the rift tho, so I'd say you'll be quite happy with bolting til at least 95.

I also kept cleric ranks at level until I fixskilled out of spell aiming. It makes it a little harder to ward (that is, probably a 75-80% chance against like-level versus 100), but manageable. :)

[Mikalmas]

Wait, you're still having mana issues being 2x in HP??

I didn't expect that.

One minor tweak I'd highly recommend is if you're going to be a bolting cleric, definitely pick up 5 more ranks of summoning lore for the bolt version of 118. That bolt spell is just awesome! Decent damage, frequent knockdowns AND a 50/50ish shot of webbing them. I consider it a "must-have" if you're going to bolt. It also drops griffins on the Keen, and we all know flying creatures are like cockatrices if you can get em down.

[kookiegod]

Yah, once he gets the points for sure. My goal in his advice was he wanted more mana and more CS + chrisms.

Ever since bolting became a lot more reliable (and Av is 81) just always nice as an option, if you can ward , or out of mana, grab a gold wand and fire.

118 is still nice on the bolt version since its 9 mana and not 18. Normal web is way to expensive to cast often, but definitely useful if he heads off to the keen.

~Paul

[HSB]

Wait, you're still having mana issues being 2x in HP??

I didn't expect that.

Wind wraiths are annoying in that they occasionally spawn with a TD too high for me to ward (except on rolls of 75 or better), so I end up firing away with 306, doing 35-50 damage... IF they don't fade out. And they're non-corporeal, so I need to do 250 or so damage to kill each one. Just... blargh. And that's where I run into mana issues.

[Mikalmas]

Yah, once he gets the points for sure. My goal in his advice was he wanted more mana and more CS + chrisms.

Ever since bolting became a lot more reliable (and Av is 81) just always nice as an option, if you can ward , or out of mana, grab a gold wand and fire.

118 is still nice on the bolt version since its 9 mana and not 18. Normal web is way to expensive to cast often, but definitely useful if he heads off to the keen.

~Paul

I loved bolting, absolutely. Thoroughly enjoyed it from about 60 to 95. Unfortunately the damn armor classes (I assume its armor class related) in Nelemar makes bolting woefully inadequate., at least it did for me. It was unbearably slow, and with 400 mana I was still running out without frying.

That being said, with 30 ranks in blessings he's still 1 rank from 80% chrisms. Even when he gets that extra rank, its 80% chrisms and no web bolt. He can drop blessings to 25 ranks and still have 75% chrisms. I'd personally rather have web bolt and 75% chrisms as an option rather than 80% chrisms and no web bolt. As a bolter, that 5% wouldn't be enough for me to give up my web bolt. After 20 ranks in sommoning, then pick up the blessings lore :)

[kookiegod]

He'll pick it up with more points, he's still fairly young where points are tough somedays, had to get his core stuff, and he wanted more CS then the extra clerical ranks vs lores.

As long as he's having fun, most important thing. :)

~Paul

[Mikalmas]

He'll pick it up with more points, he's still fairly young where points are tough somedays, had to get his core stuff, and he wanted more CS then the extra clerical ranks vs lores.

As long as he's having fun, most important thing. :)

~Paul

True enough. Its a matter of what's more important to you, we have to prioritize and decide what we want first :)

[deadly]

this is my cleric I love having the high defense with the shield/brawl but i wonder how much stronger I would be if I picked up a runestaff and went pure cleric route.

i cast bane and to kill undead I usually 301+fu to kill them but I hear around 50ish fu starts to get harder for clerics.

any advise on training for my cleric? here is my current skills with him. I currently use a 5x might be 6x tower shield and a Iasha troll-claw (unlocked tier2) or open hand

(at level 46), your base skill bonuses, ranks and goals are:
Skill Name | Actual Actual
| Bonus Ranks Goals In-Game Time to Goal
Armor Use..........................| 130 35 35
Shield Use.........................| 148 48 48
Brawling...........................| 148 48 48
Physical Fitness...................| 120 30 30
Arcane Symbols.....................| 70 15 15
Magic Item Use.....................| 90 20 20
Harness Power......................| 167 67.734 46 31 days, 16 hours, 32 minutes
Spirit Mana Control................| 145 45 45
Spiritual Lore - Blessings.........| 62 13 13
Spiritual Lore - Religion..........| 140 40 40
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 70 15 15
Perception.........................| 50 10 10
Climbing...........................| 105 25 25
Swimming...........................| 25 5 5

Spell Lists
Major Spirit.......................| 25 30 ASAP (will rise when points are available)

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 33.934 30 2 days, 4 hours, 32 minutes

Spell Lists
Cleric.............................| 47 52 ASAP (will rise when

[Mikalmas]

Wow. There's a lot of things you could do.

First of all, yes, I'd say get rid of the shield and brawling training unless Fu is central to the concept of your cleric. If not, you'll start seeing it fall way behind post-50.

I see you're training down HP. I'd reconsider that, especially if you're going the pure casting route. You're going to need that mana without a secondary attack method, at even at your level, that's an extra 46 mana, nothign to sneeze at.

You're pretty good on spell ranks (at 2.5x). At this point where you go with that depends on your priorities. If you're going to be a non-bolting pure caster, 240 is pretty important, so that'd be my next personal goal. Once you get to 130 and 240, then focus on your cleric ranks until you're at least level+21, that'll do you til near cap (I made it all the way to cap with level +21).

Drop PF to 24 ranks. Those 6 extra ranks aren't helping anything.

Keep AS and MIU to 1x.

All those skills combined (2.5x spell ranks, 2x lores, 1x MIU, 1x AS, 2x HP, 1x SMC) puts you at about 9.5x in magic ranks, which is pretty good for runestaff defense. I prefer 10-11, but 9.5 will do.

I like the brig as well. That was a personal choice I made for my cleric and I've never regretted it.

That'll leave you with quite a few extra points, I'd personall dump them in spell ranks if I were you. Your lore training is pretty rounded out, and remember, fi you're going to be a CS based casting cleric, you want to fail 10% of the time or less on a cast, so getting to cleric +21 is pretty important. Those ranks from 1-21 over your level in the cleric circle will give you +1 CS for every rank, so that's pretty significant.

I'm sure others will have more opinions!

[kookiegod]

Unless you really HATE a little bit of hinderence, I don't know why any pure does not train to at least leather breastplate, let alone brig, and if your swinging, torso chain.

If your going to stay the swinging route, I'd say drop the shield and brawl for a decent weapon base such as a maul or a claid (THW). Probably should drop the lores (except for summoning for webbolt) and up your Major Spirit for bind if you do that.

Else follow what Mikalmas and I were saying for HSB to go pure and get good mana, CS, and lores.

~Paul

[deadly]

i just like being able to stay in offensive with 350+ DS with my shield. if i went runestaff i wonder how low my ds would go.

currently using a 5x or 6x tower shield.

[Asrial]

You might be able to go lower with Physical Fitness. You might also get benefit going higher too.

It's all based on starting CON (INFO START I think is the verb to check starting stats) and your current CON BONUS.

[deadly]

Strength (STR): 80
Constitution (CON): 69
Dexterity (DEX): 69
Agility (AGI): 70
Discipline (DIS): 60
Aura (AUR): 90
Logic (LOG): 50
Intuition (INT): 70
Wisdom (WIS): 80
Influence (INF): 22

Dwarf Profession: Cleric (shown as: Shaman)
Gender: Male Age: 80 Expr: 2224220 Level: 46
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 95 (32) ... 95 (32)
Constitution (CON): 86 (33) ... 86 (33)
Dexterity (DEX): 74 (12) ... 74 (12)
Agility (AGI): 76 (8) ... 76 (8)
Discipline (DIS): 83 (26) ... 83 (26)
Aura (AUR): 97 (13) ... 97 (13)
Logic (LOG): 73 (16) ... 73 (16)
Intuition (INT): 87 (18) ... 87 (18)
Wisdom (WIS): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Influence (INF): 52 (-9) ... 52 (-9)

173hp right now.

[Asrial]

Starting health is determined by: TRUNC[(ST+CO)/10]

TRUNC(CURRENT CON BONUS / 10) = additional health per training in PF

CON BONUS + RACIAL MAX = true racial max

HEALTH PER PF TRAINING = the amount of health you get for each training in physical fitness

.

80 + 69 / 10 = 14 starting health

33 / 10 = 3 additional health points per PF training

dwarf max is 140 + 33 con bonus = 173 maximum health

..and a dwarf gets 6 health per training (+ an additional 3 from your CON bonus).

.

173 - 14 = 159 / 9 = 17.6

Which means...

17 trainings in Physical Fitness will get you a total of 167 health. It's up to you if you want to get that 18th training for 6 health (I would).

When your CON bonus reaches 40, you'll want to re-assess your PF training.

[EDIT: Forgot to mention. The key to this is that your health is re-assessed as your CON grows. It's not set in stone when you train (thankfully).]

[Rathain]

Unless you really HATE a little bit of hinderence, I don't know why any pure does not train to at least leather breastplate, let alone brig, and if your swinging, torso chain.

If your going to stay the swinging route, I'd say drop the shield and brawl for a decent weapon base such as a maul or a claid (THW). Probably should drop the lores (except for summoning for webbolt) and up your Major Spirit for bind if you do that.

Else follow what Mikalmas and I were saying for HSB to go pure and get good mana, CS, and lores.

~Paul

Personal choice I suppose. I've never had a problem with my cleric in doubles. The only maneuver attack to kill my cleric in OTF main was a war griffin drop, and that has only happened once in two and a half years of hunting there.

If as a cleric one chooses a nimble race (with a high non-cman maneuver defense bonus), adopt a very physical build (1x PT, .5x CM) and are relatively unencumbered, maneuvers are really a non-issue. Construct stomps, griffin call wind, griffin tail swat, herald discs, herald ewaves, and construct pinball have never been an issue for my cleric. However, failing a cast (due to typos) has been far more problematic, so armor hindrance is more of an issue to my gameplay.

[deadly]

still not sure exactly what my cleric should look like if i went pure runestaff instead of brawl/shield.

i only end up with like 700-800 points if i get rid of my brawl and shield. and that does not allow me to up a whole lot of skills. After i up my AS/MIU to 46 each i have like 250-300 points left to put in magic skills.

how much of a loss will i take on BOLT DS and DS in general by dropping my 6x tower shield and going with a 4x runestaff?

[Asrial]

You'll take a pretty massive hit to bolt DS.

[Anebriated]

Im just going to piggyback this thread instead of making a new one... Been reading up on clerics and asking around since I started playing again but I still dont know the best way to go with my new guy. Ideally Id like to go shield/brawl for the bolt DS, dont plan on going VOLN so I wont have fu. Also thinking of going bane?(which one is the living again?) as I want to be able to skin well.

Im currently set up to be a swinger while I am levelling up(only 8 atm). Plan on using the stat reallocation and fixing my skills when the time comes that I can hunt with mana alone.

What benefit is there to going runestaff?

Do I need(I use this term loosely) to train in spell aiming?

100's or 200's first?

how many armor ranks for brig(32? trying to go by memory here)?

First Aid + Survival combo is good for skinning, how much of each? 2x/1x respectively?

what are the chrisms?

[Asrial]

Been reading up on clerics and asking around since I started playing again but I still dont know the best way to go with my new guy.The nice thing about clerics is you really can't go wrong with them for a really long time. It wasn't until level 70ish that I, as 2x spells and 1x edged/cm, faced a situation where I felt I had no choice but change my training or grind through a brick wall. Weapon hunting to 100 has been done a number of times. Bolting to 100 has been done. At level 96 I can hunt just fine with 2x spell training. 3x spell training is of course, superior. Fu'ers do just fine. That's one thing I enjoy about being a cleric, there's room for a lot of variety at the lower end of the spectrum.




Ideally Id like to go shield/brawl for the bolt DS, dont plan on going VOLN so I wont have fu.At level 96, both in OTF and Nelemar, I get by just fine with only shield training. We rock defensively because of our spells. Also, if you have access to a wizard, it's fairly easy to steal 507 (+20 DS) and stack it to 4 hours. My recommendation? Drop brawl and see how you like it.




Also thinking of going bane?(which one is the living again?) as I want to be able to skin well.Bane is the one for the living. However, Bane wounds the target. If you're wanting to get the best possible skins every time, 312 is the way to go. 312 kills by bloodloss.




What benefit is there to going runestaff?The primary benefit is that you don't have to train in a combat skill (IE: shields) to get DS. A secondary benefit is that you can parry bolts.




Do I need(I use this term loosely) to train in spell aiming?No, you don't need spell aiming. It's fun though! 306 DESTROYS lesser vruul. You will literally be melting their batty little faces.




100's or 200's first?Just depends on what spells you want the most. Both circles are attractive. 215.. 120.. I think I went the route of going up to 202.. then 103.. then 215.. then 107.. then 219.. then 120.. then 225.. then 130.




how many armor ranks for brig(32? trying to go by memory here)?35 ranks.




First Aid + Survival combo is good for skinning, how much of each? 2x/1x respectively?Well, since you're wanting to skin, a healthy does of both. I have 0 ranks of survival and 30 ranks of first aid (and the first aid I rarely ever use anyways). I don't know the best balance for both skills when it comes to skinning.




what are the chrisms?Chrisms are made with the spell 325. Type BLESS in the game to get all the info about how that spell works. Essentially, casting 325 on an orb gem worth 3k+ allows you to do BLESS DEITY COMMON 4 which makes it a chrism gem. A chrism gem can be used to put anyone into meditation. It can also be used on dead people to lower their hit to CON because of death and with blessing lore (65 to max it at 100%) can help them retain the XP they have while dead. Make a couple and save them for friends and family, for sure, but it's up to you whether you want to use them all the time on the mass public or not.

[Anebriated]

At level 96, both in OTF and Nelemar, I get by just fine with only shield training. We rock defensively because of our spells. Also, if you have access to a wizard, it's fairly easy to steal 507 (+20 DS) and stack it to 4 hours. My recommendation? Drop brawl and see how you like it.

awesome, I was under the impression I needed the brawl training to get keep the extra DS since my right hand would be empty.



Bane is the one for the living. However, Bane wounds the target. If you're wanting to get the best possible skins every time, 312 is the way to go. 312 kills by bloodloss.

Yeah and I eventually plan on using 312 but its rather expensive to be casting that all the time at lower levels where mana is still an issue. Only level 8 so I have a ways to go before I am hunting on mana using 302 much less 312...



No, you don't need spell aiming. It's fun though! 306 DESTROYS lesser vruul. You will literally be melting their batty little faces.


good, more points that can be used elsewhere until I am older and have points to spare...



Just depends on what spells you want the most. Both circles are attractive. 215.. 120.. I think I went the route of going up to 202.. then 103.. then 215.. then 107.. then 219.. then 120.. then 225.. then 130.


Yeah I was thinking id go up the 200's first at least till 215 so I get the +AS boosting spells while I am swinging. Will probably change that up later when I switch to casting. currently up to 308, 205 and 103.

thanks for the answers.

[Asrial]

awesome, I was under the impression I needed the brawl training to get keep the extra DS since my right hand would be empty.I'll get back to you with some math on the DS at various levels, from 1x brawling.

[Asrial]

STRENGTH BONUS: 25
DEXTERITY BONUS: 25
HANDS: empty

25 RANKS OF BRAWLING IN OFFENSIVE: 7 DS
25 RANKS OF BRAWLING IN GUARDED: 22 DS

50 RANKS OF BRAWLING IN OFFENSIVE: 12 DS
50 RANKS OF BRAWLING IN GUARDED: 37 DS

75 RANKS OF BRAWLING IN OFFENSIVE: 17 DS
75 RANKS OF BRAWLING IN GUARDED: 52 DS

100 RANKS OF BRAWLING IN OFFENSIVE: 22 DS
100 RANKS OF BRAWLING IN GUARDED: 67 DS

.

Also note that there currently is a bug with ranged/bolt DS and weapon training.

There is a part of the DS formula (it's listed on the website under parry DS but I think that's the wrong place for it) that is "+ stance/2".

This is removed when shot by a ranged weapon or a bolt. However, it's not removed if the person has no skill in the weapon they're using.

Meaning...

If you have 0 brawling training, an empty hand, and are in the guarded stance, you're going to get +40 DS against ranged/bolt attacks.

If you have 1 rank of brawling, you get +0 DS.

[Anebriated]

STRENGTH BONUS: 25
DEXTERITY BONUS: 25
HANDS: empty

25 RANKS OF BRAWLING IN OFFENSIVE: 7 DS
25 RANKS OF BRAWLING IN GUARDED: 22 DS

50 RANKS OF BRAWLING IN OFFENSIVE: 12 DS
50 RANKS OF BRAWLING IN GUARDED: 37 DS

75 RANKS OF BRAWLING IN OFFENSIVE: 17 DS
75 RANKS OF BRAWLING IN GUARDED: 52 DS

100 RANKS OF BRAWLING IN OFFENSIVE: 22 DS
100 RANKS OF BRAWLING IN GUARDED: 67 DS

.

Also note that there currently is a bug with ranged/bolt DS and weapon training.

There is a part of the DS formula (it's listed on the website under parry DS but I think that's the wrong place for it) that is "+ stance/2".

This is removed when shot by a ranged weapon or a bolt. However, it's not removed if the person has no skill in the weapon they're using.

Meaning...

If you have 0 brawling training, an empty hand, and are in the guarded stance, you're going to get +40 DS against ranged/bolt attacks.

If you have 1 rank of brawling, you get +0 DS.

So basically there is no reason to put any points into brawling until I can get roughly 60 ranks. Good info, thanks.

[Anebriated]

two questions. has anyone done the math on what perfect stats would be for a dwarven cleric at 0? and how long do I get to keep those 5 stat reallocations?

[Asrial]

I haven't done the math, but I'm sure someone has.

You don't get to keep the stat re-allocations for long.

However...

By the time you hit 100, the only time perfect stats really matter, you should have enough money or bounty points for a fixstats potion.

My recommendation? Do your stats in a way that works for you NOW (but give them some room to breathe so don't set any 100's out the gate) and forget about later until it becomes later.

You certainly aren't going to be a gimped character just because you're aren't sporting 10 100's :D

[MrTastyHead]

Str, con, log, int - 62
Dex- 92
Agi - 88
Inf - 77
Aur - 82
Dis - 39
Wis - 33

That should give 100's in everything but dis at cap, which would be 93. But I definitely wouldn't do it until you can get a fixstats at like 80+.