Crit or damage padding?

[Alorn15]

Hey all -

Potentially going to acquire some PPs soon, and need to decide between crit or damage padding. Level 53 at the moment, but I want this to be the last set of plate I ever NEED to own, so we're looking at endgame benefits.

Opinions? The way I figure it is that damage is better via strong redux, but I can't get around the fact that crit will still save me against some spells, right? At the moment my deaths come primarily from major ewaves, focused implodes, nature's fury and the like. Getting plinked to death happens, but it's a distant second.

Another consideration is that I'm in GoS, so (most of the time) I can compliment damage with crit or vise versa.

Edit: Should probably mention, my style is primarily MoC based with THW. Giantman.

[TheLastShamurai]

I say go with crit. Better resell value and Sigil of Minor Protection costs less to keep running.

I have flaring plate myself since I keep Major Protection running. HCP + void flares = win.

[Guarrin]

I'm glad you posted this, because I'm about to burn a few years of PP on my 'project plate'.

I'm also curious if either is considered better for a paladin, or a warrior.

[droit]

I'd probably go with crit padding for a paladin, but I think flares are a pretty good option for a warrior.

[neimanz1]

I say sell the points and just look for a set of nice demage padded plate. Because heavy crit padding won't really save most of the time. Especially since gs4 sort of got away from the 1 shot kills. You got redux & beseech. You will only have to worry about being stuck in rt. And demage padding should help a little more.

[Fulmen]

On the same topic more or less, would using HCP and the Sigil of Minor Protection stack in the same way armor accessories would? As in, half of hcp and half hdp?

[droit]

Nope, they stack fully.

[Maerit]

Even though my character is a warrior, I would still say crit padding.

You don't really have to worry about taking massive physical crits from critters, or lots of damage. Especially as a Giantman with a big CON bonus and lots of DS as a paladin.

What you have to worry about are manuevers, and they can cause bleeders. Crit padding can reduce the amount of bleeders you end up getting, which can shorten your hunting trip. Some of them can kill you, but most of them will just break your legs. Crit padding, I've found, leaves me with a stun but minors. Things like boil earth never cause bleeders. Ewave can still kill you with a blast to the eye, and I don't think padding does anything against implosion (dodge I think helps there). However, there are plenty of critter manuevers out there that crit padding can help avoid.

Damage padding will help with virtually nothing. If you somehow take 30 damage from an attack, your damage padding will take it down to like 15 or 10, but you'll still have a bleeder since it doesn't reduce the wound level at all.

As a giantman, and master of Sunfist, I find bleeders to be the primary reason for returning from a hunt early on. I also have armor reinforcement to limit wound stacking, so with heavy crit padded plate, sigil of minor protection, and spell tanking, I rarely come back with anything more than a few scratches, and nothing has managed to crit me to death in a long time as long as I had my armor on (when it was off, I took one shot to the throat and died. Rule #1 -- always remember to put your armor back on!!).

You also have to keep in mind that blood loss doesn't impact your ability to skin or search or perform any actions, only significant wounds will impede those actions. Losing your arm to a crit will make you unable to swing a weapon. Getting a rank 2 wound to the face will force you to use Sigil of Determination so you can search and skin, plus as a paladin it will hinder your casting abilities.

So, there's some justification to crit padding. DFRedux + Crit Padding will make you mostly invulnerable to physical damage at cap, or so I hear.

[DoctorUnne]

I like Neimanz' advice.

People undervalue damage padding in my opinion, so you can probably buy a set for cheaper than what you could get for the PPs.

As a paladin obviously there's more benefit to crit padding than for a warrior, but if you can I would do some testing in both. I don't know what a paladin's redux is like, but as a warrior the vast majority of the time you should be taking only rank 1's in plate unless it's from a spell. Maybe a rank 2 if you get donkeypunched with a two-hander. Crit padding won't do anything for you if you're only taking rank 1's to begin with.

But like I said, do the testing and see for yourself, I could be wrong. Critting from spells could be a problem I agree, but really at cap warriors die more from spell crits than from being RT-locked? (It's an honest question - I don't know). I don't think focused implosion counts since I don't think crit padding helps you.

Flares are also a great option, especially since you are GoS and can use a sigil for the padding.

[kookiegod]

Even though my character is a warrior, I would still say crit padding.

You don't really have to worry about taking massive physical crits from critters, or lots of damage. Especially as a Giantman with a big CON bonus and lots of DS as a paladin.

What you have to worry about are manuevers, and they can cause bleeders. Crit padding can reduce the amount of bleeders you end up getting, which can shorten your hunting trip. Some of them can kill you, but most of them will just break your legs. Crit padding, I've found, leaves me with a stun but minors. Things like boil earth never cause bleeders. Ewave can still kill you with a blast to the eye, and I don't think padding does anything against implosion (dodge I think helps there). However, there are plenty of critter manuevers out there that crit padding can help avoid.

Damage padding will help with virtually nothing. If you somehow take 30 damage from an attack, your damage padding will take it down to like 15 or 10, but you'll still have a bleeder since it doesn't reduce the wound level at all.

As a giantman, and master of Sunfist, I find bleeders to be the primary reason for returning from a hunt early on. I also have armor reinforcement to limit wound stacking, so with heavy crit padded plate, sigil of minor protection, and spell tanking, I rarely come back with anything more than a few scratches, and nothing has managed to crit me to death in a long time as long as I had my armor on (when it was off, I took one shot to the throat and died. Rule #1 -- always remember to put your armor back on!!).

You also have to keep in mind that blood loss doesn't impact your ability to skin or search or perform any actions, only significant wounds will impede those actions. Losing your arm to a crit will make you unable to swing a weapon. Getting a rank 2 wound to the face will force you to use Sigil of Determination so you can search and skin, plus as a paladin it will hinder your casting abilities.

So, there's some justification to crit padding. DFRedux + Crit Padding will make you mostly invulnerable to physical damage at cap, or so I hear.

^

Yah, exactly.

In addition, if you get damage padding via prem points, its 10. Since its randomized (5 min) your median is 7.5 (7 since GS truncates) so its not that much damage your shaving off.

Crit padding is a much better bang for your point, or get flares and maybe a crit padded helm.

/shrug

~Paul

[Donquix]

From a warrior point of view here, but i see it like this...

damage padding is convenience, it will be less helpful but more often. It can save your life if you're fighting things that have a chance to stack you into RT for half an hour

crit padding, it will save your life (i'm looking at you stupid maneuver attacks) when it does come into play

flares, are way cooler

ideally, i'd like a set for all occasions. I'm still working up from a comparatively lower level, so my priority is going flares -> crit padding -> damage padding

Of course i'm poor as dirt, so my actual acquisition schedule looks like +22 imflass vanilla plate -> nothing -> nothing -> nothing -> hit the lottery -> buy bunch of awesome armor -> realize i have effectively limitless real life income -> give away awesome armor -> quit gemstone -> waste all lottery winnings on hookers and blow -> reactivate account -> return to step 1

[thefarmer]

As a paladin obviously there's more benefit to crit padding than for a warrior, but if you can I would do some testing in both. I don't know what a paladin's redux is like, but as a warrior the vast majority of the time you should be taking only rank 1's in plate unless it's from a spell. Maybe a rank 2 if you get donkeypunched with a two-hander. Crit padding won't do anything for you if you're only taking rank 1's to begin with.

It's not the rank 1-2's, it's the maneuvers and spells you get it for.



But like I said, do the testing and see for yourself, I could be wrong. Critting from spells could be a problem I agree, but really at cap warriors die more from spell crits than from being RT-locked? (It's an honest question - I don't know). I don't think focused implosion counts since I don't think crit padding helps you.

RT lock kills everyone.

So.. get crit padding.

[neimanz1]

GS III
Crit padding was underrated
Demage padding & redux was sick- Thats why both were nerfed.

Gs IV
demage padding underrated
crit padding overpriced
flares- Just looks cool

ITs all about how high you could get your DS in GSIV

Own a very nice set of demage padded plate & crit padded hauberk. Still haven't gotten hit enough to justify the cost for either. No point in investing coins on some flaring armor. IF i were to buy some armor now I would just get the highest enchant possible

[neimanz1]

Neimanz leaps from hiding to attack!
Neimanz swings a +claidhmore weighted maul at you!
AS: +289 vs DS: +188 with AvD: +36 + d100 roll: +10 = +147
... and hits for 10 points of damage!
Left leg ripped from socket at the knee!
You fall screaming to the ground grasping your mangled left leg!
You are stunned for 8 rounds!

Weapons just don't pack enough punch anymore. They might do more demage but not critting like they use to. That probably should have been 12 rounds back then

[DoctorUnne]

Neimanz leaps from hiding to attack!
Neimanz swings a +claidhmore weighted maul at you!
AS: +289 vs DS: +188 with AvD: +36 + d100 roll: +10 = +147
... and hits for 10 points of damage!
Left leg ripped from socket at the knee!
You fall screaming to the ground grasping your mangled left leg!
You are stunned for 8 rounds!

Weapons just don't pack enough punch anymore. They might do more demage but not critting like they use to. That probably should have been 12 rounds back then

That's because of crit randomization. You can have all the weighting in the world, but still only do a rank 5 crit because a rank 9 can be randomized down to a rank 5.

By the way that's some ridiculous damage padding. 34 points at least. Is that the armor formerly known as the red armor?

[neimanz1]

Yea thats exactly why crit padding is super overprice now. with the criticals being randomized. Plus a lot of professionals could break out of stuns now. and warriors got that armor skill that helps avoid wounds from stacking. Not saying demage padding is better the crit padding. But I would prefer crit padding on hauberk & down. And demage padding for plate. Since the crit resistance on plate is pretty insane already. As for Paul saying you get more with crit padding. I think its the opposite when it comes to plate. Considering I sold my 8x masterfully demage padded plate for close to 100mil. But people want 150 mil for 5x masterfully crit padded plate. And Yup that was the red armor.

[AestheticLife]

If you're deciding between similarly priced crit/damage padded plate, I'd take the damage padding any day of the week. You often get a hell of a lot more noticeable benefit out of the damage padded plate than the crit, as you will be getting a much higher amount of damage padding for the same cost (as neimanz said).

Flaring armor is well and good, but you're looking into padding for a reason. You obviously need the boost for when you're getting hit, and having the aid of padding EVERY TIME you're struck beats the hell out of random flares every six times you get smacked IMO.

[droit]

I'd also consider your race when choosing. Damage padding is less important to a giant with 235 health than to a halfling with whatever piddly health cap they have

[kookiegod]

Yea thats exactly why crit padding is super overprice now. with the criticals being randomized. Plus a lot of professionals could break out of stuns now. and warriors got that armor skill that helps avoid wounds from stacking. Not saying demage padding is better the crit padding. But I would prefer crit padding on hauberk & down. And demage padding for plate. Since the crit resistance on plate is pretty insane already. As for Paul saying you get more with crit padding. I think its the opposite when it comes to plate. Considering I sold my 8x masterfully demage padded plate for close to 100mil. But people want 150 mil for 5x masterfully crit padded plate. And Yup that was the red armor.

True bro...

But....

The red armor @ 30 points or more of damage padding (random 5-30+) vs what you get for premium point padding (random 5-10) is a vast gulf that crit padding even at random 1-10 is a heck of a lot of better option, even on plate for the points and coins invested.

Getting anything vastly high damage padded like that, surely, but for the average player, no way in heck.

~Paul

[thefarmer]

If you're deciding between similarly priced crit/damage padded plate, I'd take the damage padding any day of the week. You often get a hell of a lot more noticeable benefit out of the damage padded plate than the crit, as you will be getting a much higher amount of damage padding for the same cost (as neimanz said).

I'll take getting a 1per and a 2rd stun than getting hit for 10-ish less damage and having to deal with a 3per, severed limb and being stunned for 5.

[Maerit]

You have to also keep in mind the overwhelming factors here:

1. OP is a Giantman. Not sure about you guys, but my level 50+ Giantman warrior has 246 HP with zero enhancives.

2. OP is a Paladin. Last time I checked, a fully spell-tanked Paladin has exceptional DS for their level range. And, extremely good CS.

So, which is better for this player? Crit padding. Hands down, no contest. With over 200 HP (oh, and Paladins have spells to boost their max HP, dont they?), taking 10 even 30 more damage in a hit will not kill you, nor will it even lower your AS. Taking a 30 point hit and getting a rank 1 wound vs losing your leg, arm, eye, or rank 3 bleeder to the neck, will stop your hunting immediately, and require you to tend to the injury. Being hit by a manuever because lots of paladins are shield users, and have weak dodge bonuses (especially giants), so they get hit by lots of manuevers... crit padding F-T-W.

Add it to full plate, and you're already reducing critter damage by significant numbers just because they have a sucky DF vs plate. Damage padding on plate might be a great alternative for a gnome, halfling, elf, or maybe even human plate wearer, but NOT for a Giant. I don't really see a great benefit to damage padding for paladins in any scenario over crit padding. If you are a max dodge, max PT, high redux paladin in full plate fully spelled out, what could you possibly gain from slight additional damage reduction vs virtual crit wound immunity? You're still going to take a stun either way, but with beseech you can break free from that status effect immediately anyways.

Go crit padding. Don't go flares. Armor flares on a paladin make less sense since you're not using full body CMANs (unless you bullrush, in which case get spikes which work WITH padding), and you should have enough DS to avoid being plinked where reactive flares won't really happen too often. Flares for a warrior are fantastic since they take small amounts of physical damage all the time while standing in offensive or berserking in a swarm. I would expect paladins to more reliably use mass disablers to avoid being plinked to death while fighting swarms. Flares on your SHIELD make perfect sense. Especially with divine shield + block mastery. Things are going to tap that shield all the time, activate reactive flares, and shield bash / charge will use them as well.

Hopefully that's enough logic to make the obvious choice extremely obvious.

[TheLastShamurai]

Flares on your SHIELD make perfect sense. Especially with divine shield + block mastery. Things are going to tap that shield all the time, activate reactive flares, and shield bash / charge will use them as well.

Divine Shield + block mastery doesn't exist for Paladins. And neither does reactive shield flares exist for anyone.


Armor flares on a paladin make less sense since you're not using full body CMANs

When I was THW's {and therefor had crap for ranged/bolt DS} I loved my armor flares. Anytime a creature shot an arrow or threw something they were just asking to get imploded. And I still had HCP via GoS and puncture resistance via ARMOR. It was a win win.

[Maerit]

Divine Shield + block mastery doesn't exist for Paladins. And neither does reactive shield flares exist for anyone.

Ahh, been a long time since I used a shield on my character. I was thinking that blocking with a shield had a chance to proc flares. Guess it works the same as parrying, in which case you don't get weapon flares when you parry, so I guess that would apply with shields (no damage taken, no flare potential).

So, if you're a shield using paladin, crit padding would appear to be the best option since your DS for both bolt and otherwise is going to limit flares to a minimum. If you're a THW or Polearm, then things like flares on your armor can work with specific CMANS (Bullrush, for example). However, if you have crit padding, sigil of minor protection affords you both forms of padding with no disadvantage.

In any case, it looks like damage padding would be negligible, especially for a giantman.

[thefarmer]

The only Paladin piece of armor that needs to have flares (and spikes) for CMans is arm greaves.

[Bhuryn]

I want crit padding just for fucking headbutt. God I hate that CMAN.

[TheLastShamurai]

I want crit padding just for fucking headbutt. God I hate that CMAN.

Hellz yeah, I always get a minimum of a rank 1 head wound.

[AMUSED1]

And yet that rank 1 head wound will never be reduced to less than a rank one, even with crit padding. So crit padding would only be helpful for anything worse than that.

[neimanz1]

Well you probably wouldn't be getting the rank 1 head wound if you had nice crit padded armor though.

[Fallen]

Nah, Neimanz. As he just explained, you can't get below a rank 1 injury, even if you have the best crit padding in the game. A rank 1 cannot be reduced to a rank 0.

[neimanz1]

Hmm I am pretty sure crit padding makes it harder for you to get minors though. Unless getting headbutted is different from getting swung at .

[AMUSED1]

If the endroll for the headbutt maneuver is successful, it means you're going to be hit and that hit will at least be a rank 1 injury. Crit padding or no crit padding.

[Fulmen]

It's a bit different than a regular swing I think. The minor seems not to be based on damage or crit rank, but to be automatic with a successful strike.

[neimanz1]

oh well I guess aleast with demage padding I would take less demage then hehe

[Maerit]

oh well I guess aleast with demage padding I would take less demage then hehe

Yeah, at the same time though it's kind of pointless for damage padding against manuevers. Most manuevers don't do a lot of damage to begin with, but they still leave an injury.

I got hit for 1 point of damage by a major glacei chunk of ice, it left me a with a rank 1 minor on the chest. My other character has been hit for 35 damage by a chunk of ice from a glacei, and it killed him with a rank 3 wound to the throat. If had had crit padded armor on, he would have possibly reduced that rank 3 hit to a rank 1 or rank 2, and not died instantly.

[droit]

The other thing about crit padding and maneuvers is that one of the worst effects--RT--isn't mitigated at all. So even if you're reducing the crit damage from a maneuver, you're still going to get the RT associated with that endroll. Same goes for resistance; puncture resistance isn't that useful in the temple because even if you reduce the puncture damage from charge down to 1, you can still get stuck in 20+ seconds of RT.

At least that's how I understand it.

[Fallen]

In that sense, reactive flares are the best way to defend against RT. If you're going to be taking shots, at least you have a chance to deal some damage in return.

[DoctorUnne]

It's a bit different than a regular swing I think. The minor seems not to be based on damage or crit rank, but to be automatic with a successful strike.

Even with regular swings though, crit padding will never reduce a rank 1 to nothing.