Stacking Roundtimes

[DaCapn]

Fuck the cheese dick mechanic of stacking roundtime.

That's really it.

[ZeP]

Agreed, I also don't appreciate the use of roundtime as an "attack". I liked when the most you could get was maybe an e-wave stacked with a quake. That seems sufficient. But these maneuver attacks that can stack 10 to 20 seconds on top of quake and ewave are just bogus, IMO

[DaCapn]

I'd probably be alright with overlapping RTs: If you get RT imposed on you by some effect, the result of the difference between the imposed RT and the existing RT is added to your RT. (i.e. if you have 11 seconds of RT from a kneebash and get hit with another 8 by getting ewaved, your RT is 11, not 19; OR if you have 8 seconds of RT from getting ewaved and then get hit with 11 seconds of RT from a kneebash, your RT is 11).

It's hard to hold any water by saying something in a fantasy game makes more sense one way as opposed to another but I've got some confidence with this one. (You recover from the kneebash WHILE you recover from ewave. This is the model for all of the other effects due to maneuvers/spells, isn't it?)

I guess I lied when I said "that's really it." I've never known myself to be able to be that concise anyway.

[RelentlessJew]

Your only real argument would be that stuns don't stack. Most spell effects stack on themselves, or at least refresh.

If I understand what you're asking for, you want RT effects, regardless of source, to refresh to the original RT you were imposed.

Also, I love stacking RT.

240 + 110 = STUCK

504 + 514 = STUCK

Here's a demonstration...


XXXXX intones a phrase of elemental power while raising his hands...
>
XXXXX gestures at you.
CS: +316 - TD: +41 + CvA: +12 + d100: +68 - -5 == +360
Warding failed!
You begin to notice the world speed up around you. How odd.
>
XXXXX intones a phrase of elemental power while raising his hands...
>
XXXXX gestures at you.
The ground beneath XXXXX rumbles, then erupts in a shower of rubble that coalesces in to a large hand in mid-air.
CS: +316 - TD: +41 + CvA: +12 + d100: +64 - -5 == +356
Warding failed!
You try to avoid the stone hand, but it soon catches you with a loose grip that quickly tightens.

XXXXX slowly moves his hand in a waving motion, and the stone hand holding you moves in response...
CS: +316 - TD: +21 + CvA: +12 + d100: +27 - -5 == +339
Warding failed!
The stone hand waves you around violently, leaving you dizzy and confused.
Roundtime changed to 18 seconds.
Roundtime: 10 sec.

XXXXX slowly moves his hand in a waving motion, and the stone hand holding you moves in response...
CS: +316 - TD: +21 + CvA: +12 + d100: +95 - -5 == +407
Warding failed!
The stone hand waves you around violently, but you manage to keep your composure.
>
XXXXX slowly moves his hand in a waving motion, and the stone hand holding you moves in response...
CS: +316 - TD: +21 + CvA: +12 + d100: +63 - -5 == +375
Warding failed!
The stone hand waves you around violently, leaving you dizzy and confused.
Roundtime changed to 18 seconds.
Roundtime: 10 sec.
>
XXXXX slowly moves his hand in a waving motion, and the stone hand holding you moves in response...
CS: +316 - TD: +21 + CvA: +12 + d100: +68 - -5 == +380
Warding failed!
The stone hand waves you around violently, but you manage to keep your composure.
>
XXXXX slowly moves his hand in a waving motion, and the stone hand holding you moves in response...
CS: +316 - TD: +21 + CvA: +12 + d100: +61 - -5 == +373
Warding failed!
The stone hand waves you around violently, leaving you dizzy and confused.
Roundtime changed to 18 seconds.
Roundtime: 10 sec.
>
XXXXX slowly moves his hand in a waving motion, and the stone hand holding you moves in response...
CS: +316 - TD: +21 + CvA: +12 + d100: +34 - -5 == +346
Warding failed!
The stone hand waves you around violently, but you manage to keep your composure.
>
XXXXX slowly moves his hand in a waving motion, and the stone hand holding you moves in response...
CS: +316 - TD: +21 + CvA: +12 + d100: +76 - -5 == +388
Warding failed!
The stone hand waves you around violently, but you manage to keep your composure.
>
XXXXX slowly moves his hand in a waving motion, and the stone hand holding you moves in response...
CS: +316 - TD: +21 + CvA: +12 + d100: +84 - -5 == +396
Warding failed!
The stone hand waves you around violently, leaving you dizzy and confused.
Roundtime changed to 18 seconds.
Roundtime: 10 sec.
>
[Roll result: 286 (open d100: 56)]
XXXXX feints high, you spot the ruse too late as you twist awkwardly to block the blow that never came!
Roundtime changed to 15 seconds.
Roundtime: 8 sec.
>
XXXXX slowly moves his hand in a waving motion, and the stone hand holding you moves in response...
CS: +316 - TD: +21 + CvA: +12 + d100: +70 - -5 == +382
Warding failed!
The stone hand waves you around violently, leaving you dizzy and confused.
Roundtime changed to 18 seconds.
Roundtime: 10 sec.
>
A low rumbling noise sounds from within the large stone hand that holds you firmly in its deadly grasp. It erupts into a myriad of stone fragments that hit the ground and crumble into invisible dust.
>
XXXXX intones a phrase of elemental power while raising his hands...
XXXXX gestures at you.
The ground beneath XXXXX rumbles, then erupts in a shower of rubble that coalesces in to a large hand in mid-air.
CS: +316 - TD: +41 + CvA: +12 + d100: +63 - -5 == +355
Warding failed!
You try to avoid the stone hand, but it soon catches you with a loose grip that quickly tightens.
>
You notice that things have returned to their normal speed.
>
XXXXX intones a phrase of elemental power while raising his hands...
XXXXX gestures at you.
CS: +316 - TD: +41 + CvA: +12 + d100: +70 - -5 == +362
Warding failed!
You begin to notice the world speed up around you. How odd.
>
XXXXX slowly moves his hand in a waving motion, and the stone hand holding you moves in response...
CS: +316 - TD: +21 + CvA: +12 + d100: +76 - -5 == +388
Warding failed!
The stone hand waves you around violently, leaving you dizzy and confused.
Roundtime changed to 18 seconds.
Roundtime: 10 sec.
>
XXXXX slowly moves his hand in a pushing motion, and the stone hand holding you moves in response...
CS: +316 - TD: +21 + CvA: +12 + d100: +20 - -5 == +332
Warding failed!
The stone hand pushes you violently, and you roll helplessly to the ground.
Roundtime changed to 18 seconds.
Roundtime: 10 sec.
Suddenly, the stone hand erupts into a myriad of stone fragments that hit the ground and crumble into invisible dust.
>
XXXXX intones a phrase of elemental power while raising his hands...
XXXXX gestures at you.
The ground beneath XXXXX rumbles, then erupts in a shower of rubble that coalesces in to a large hand in mid-air.
CS: +316 - TD: +41 + CvA: +12 + d100: +49 - -5 == +341
Warding failed!
You try to avoid the stone hand, but it soon catches you with a loose grip that quickly tightens.
>
XXXXX slowly moves his hand in a waving motion, and the stone hand holding you moves in response...
CS: +316 - TD: +21 + CvA: +12 + d100: +52 - -5 == +364
Warding failed!
The stone hand waves you around violently, leaving you dizzy and confused.
Roundtime changed to 18 seconds.
Roundtime: 10 sec.
>
XXXXX slowly moves his hand in a pushing motion, and the stone hand holding you moves in response...
CS: +316 - TD: +21 + CvA: +12 + d100: +30 - -5 == +342
Warding failed!
The stone hand pushes you violently, and you roll helplessly on the ground.
Roundtime changed to 18 seconds.
Roundtime: 10 sec.
Suddenly, the stone hand erupts into a myriad of stone fragments that hit the ground and crumble into invisible dust.
>
XXXXX intones a phrase of elemental power while raising his hands...
XXXXX gestures at you.
The ground beneath XXXXX rumbles, then erupts in a shower of rubble that coalesces in to a large hand in mid-air.
CS: +316 - TD: +41 + CvA: +12 + d100: +60 - -5 == +352
Warding failed!
You try to avoid the stone hand, but it soon catches you with a loose grip that quickly tightens.
>
XXXXX slowly moves his hand in a waving motion, and the stone hand holding you moves in response...
CS: +316 - TD: +21 + CvA: +12 + d100: +83 - -5 == +395
Warding failed!
The stone hand waves you around violently, leaving you dizzy and confused.
Roundtime changed to 18 seconds.
Roundtime: 10 sec.
>
XXXXX slowly moves his hand in a pushing motion, and the stone hand holding you moves in response...
CS: +316 - TD: +21 + CvA: +12 + d100: +8 - -5 == +320
Warding failed!
The stone hand pushes you violently, and you roll helplessly on the ground.
Roundtime changed to 18 seconds.
Roundtime: 10 sec.
Suddenly, the stone hand erupts into a myriad of stone fragments that hit the ground and crumble into invisible dust.
>wait
...wait 117 seconds.

[NocturnalRob]

lots of spells
>wait
...wait 117 seconds.
exit
wait 117 seconds
log in

[RelentlessJew]

exit
wait 117 seconds
log in

That is mechanics abuse. It's why they have creatures that come back with insane AS/CS buffs on you when you do that.

[NocturnalRob]

That is mechanics abuse. It's why they have creatures that come back with insane AS/CS buffs on you when you do that.
lrn2sanct

[Asha]

Nope. In any amount of RT you can slam and join right back in with 0 and the critters will just move on if you're not stunned or bound etc.
Hard RT can always be negated by slamming except for 130 spell.

[NocturnalRob]

Hard RT can always be negated by slamming except for 130 spell.
didn't know that. nice.

[RelentlessJew]

Nope. In any amount of RT you can slam and join right back in with 0 and the critters will just move on if you're not stunned or bound etc.
Hard RT can always be negated by slamming except for 130 spell.

Wrong.

After using the same technique I posted before to impose some RT on a character... I slammed out of it.


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Welcome to GemStone IV (R) v5.10
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[South River Road]
Stifling waves of heat blow a hot mist over you making breathing difficult. Small droplets of water condense onto the orchids, which have replaced the roses in the arch overhead. A small amount of moonlight filters its way through the thick foliage of the arch to illuminate your way.
Obvious paths: east, south, west
[You are lying down]
>wait
...wait 40 seconds.

[NocturnalRob]

i am a lying bastard who gets people excited about something and then crushes their hopes
i hate you

[RelentlessJew]

Lolz. +rep for that!

[DaCapn]

Your only real argument would be that stuns don't stack. Most spell effects stack on themselves, or at least refresh.

If I understand what you're asking for, you want RT effects, regardless of source, to refresh to the original RT you were imposed.

Actually you missed it (at least based on how I would choose to define the words 'refresh' and 'overlap').

I was saying that getting nailed with a kneebash is independent of ewave. The reason you're slowed down from a kneebash is different than the from ewave. So, you should recover from both simultaneously.

I guess you can think of this as though you have many RT counters and every time you get RT imposed on you, it goes into a separate counter which counts down independently of the others and you have 0 RT when all RT counters are 0.

And, if you're thinking about the fact that effects should be more severe if you're immobilized from one effect, you're correct. You'll have higher endrolls against an immobilized/prone character (this is ability dependent of course), resulting in higher RTs imposed by the later attack, resulting in a higher overlapping RT.

Stated several ways there.

As to stacking RT from the SAME effect, I'm not sure. In some cases it could make sense. It's still a bullshit cheap mechanic even if it makes sense in fantasy logic, though. Not to say that parts of GS aren't built on that general principle, though.

[RelentlessJew]

Yeah, that's way too complicated. That'll never happen.

I've suffered a couple of deaths from RT stacking of various mechanics at times. The first time it happened, I was pretty pissed.

On plane 1, a naisric used a vine, and call wind that happened to make a vortex. Basically, I was in RT hell. When I died I still had like 40 seconds on me.

Then I said 'so that's how it feels' and I lol'd.

It IS a bullshit cheap mechanic, no arguments there. That's why I use it. They are some of the most successful tactics around.

[DaCapn]

Yeah, that's way too complicated. That'll never happen.

if newRT > currentRT then currentRT=newRT

Edit: As opposed to what it is currently: currentRT+=newRT

[RelentlessJew]

I meant, too complicated to code. I understood it the second time.

[Fallen]

OTF is the king for stacking you into RT. I've had deaths where I waited out 1 min 30 seconds before finally being killed. It is always the god damn Seers Mass despelling that get you.

[The Ponzzz]

OTF is the king for stacking you into RT. I've had deaths where I waited out 1 min 30 seconds before finally being killed. It is always the god damn Seers Mass despelling that get you.

Camps are. OTF has nothing on a camp.

[DaCapn]

Camps are. OTF has nothing on a camp.

I don't know one way or another, but my experience was in a warcamp.

I was initially using this build:
1) Brig, 50 AU, Armor Stealth, >2.5x Hide, 410, Evade Mastery, Archery
Then switched to this:
2) Hauberk, 120 AU, Armor Evasion, 2x Hide, 410, Combat Mobility, Archery

The brig was +18 HCP spiked and the hauberk was just plain +20. The second build has proven to be insanely better (for warcamps at least).

I'm not sure if it's combat mobility making all the difference or not. It certainly helps not taking a 50-some hit on my DS when I get put into a prone position while in RT. With build 2, I was able to go more than 1 minute in RT getting plinked by 5-7 creatures and with build 1 I typically only lasted about 30 seconds. Further, there were significantly more warcamp runs made with build 2 where I emerged totally unscathed (I might not have had any with build 1).

I was thinking with the addition of evade mastery and the armor stealth that I might be able to swing a super-stealth brig build, but really it seems like heavy armor is still much better for a rogue. Maybe some day the rogue incentive structure will be in line with the design intent.


I meant, too complicated to code. I understood it the second time.

That was proof-of-concept code (meaning it's essentially a one-line substitution). I wasn't suggesting that there are actually all of these timers which are tracked (where the current RT came from is pretty irrelevant). Though you could easily do that by having an RT list where the first 0 gets replaced by the newly acquired RT and if there are no zeros, an element is appended. The only other thing is that you have to decrement every element of the list when your RT is lowered but it's still really only about 5 lines.

[Fallen]

Warcamps as a pure would be pretty bad if you let things swing. I imagine as a warrior/rogue they are a bit under the bar for OTF. The advantage a warcamp has in stacking RT is everything is guaranteed to be at/slightly over level. You're also going to see a more diverse list of CMANs. The advantage OTF has is specific RT enducing maneuvers. I just don't treat warcamps like I do OTF. I disable everything instantly, and I consider it a failure if anything gets so much as a swing off at me. Just too damn dangerous. So while the RT stacking potential is there, I just never really encountered it.

[Asha]

i hate you

:lol:
Ahhh it's a good day.

[Bhuryn]

Save the:

A grimswarm sorcerer arrives, a grimswarm sorcerer instagibs you with prepped implosion or an unlucky major ewave crit -- stacking RTs are really the only way I die in warcamps now.

It's cheesy but I guess I can see a reasoning for them not to want to change it to dramatically. I would much perfer that the biggest RT overwrites the lower RT though =).

[DaCapn]

Warcamps as a pure would be pretty bad if you let things swing. I imagine as a warrior/rogue they are a bit under the bar for OTF. The advantage a warcamp has in stacking RT is everything is guaranteed to be at/slightly over level. You're also going to see a more diverse list of CMANs. The advantage OTF has is specific RT enducing maneuvers. I just don't treat warcamps like I do OTF. I disable everything instantly, and I consider it a failure if anything gets so much as a swing off at me. Just too damn dangerous. So while the RT stacking potential is there, I just never really encountered it.

As a rogue, Grimswarm have an advantage of about 100 on me with cman rolls unless it's something I'm specifically trained in so on average, I see cman endrolls of about 150. My only real disabler is 410 which triggers the shroud effect so typically, nothing is disabled (I can't actually seen whatever it is it does, I just limit myself to make sure I don't find out).

I'm not sure how the pure's advantage of disabling vs. their worse maneuver defense really pans out. I'd be interested to know how much pures actually get locked up in RT in warcamps.

[Bhuryn]

A Grimswarm orc warrior glares at you and lets out a nerve-shattering bellow!
You are startled enough to lose initiative!
Roundtime: 20 sec.
R>
A Grimswarm orc soldier glares at you and lets out a nerve-shattering bellow!
You are startled enough to lose initiative!
Roundtime: 20 sec.
>

shortly after....

A Grimswarm orc warrior glares at you and lets out a nerve-shattering bellow!
You are startled enough to lose initiative!
Roundtime: 20 sec.
R>
A Grimswarm orc soldier glares at you and lets out a nerve-shattering bellow!
You are startled enough to lose initiative!
Roundtime: 20 sec.

at one point between tackles and manuvers i was up to 174 seconds of RT, new record for me =)

[eulogia]

I was thinking with the addition of evade mastery and the armor stealth that I might be able to swing a super-stealth brig build, but really it seems like heavy armor is still much better for a rogue. Maybe some day the rogue incentive structure will be in line with the design intent.

I am: 5x ECP brig, armored stealth, 2.7x hide with enhancives, 410, evade mastery and combat mobility, TWC daggers. I do very nicely in solo camps as well as Nelemar. Granted, the padded brig is a nice insurance policy.

-E

[Anothi]

I am: 5x ECP brig, armored stealth, 2.7x hide with enhancives, 410, evade mastery and combat mobility, TWC daggers. I do very nicely in solo camps as well as Nelemar. Granted, the padded brig is a nice insurance policy.

-E

Personally, I like the rogue archer with ability to 410. Killing shit in one hit in 3 seconds can be pretty devastating...

Anothi