Republicans to Repeal Birthright Citizenship

[ClydeR]

U.S. Rep. Nathan Deal, a Republican candidate for governor of Georgia, has proposed changing the long-standing federal policy that automatically grants citizenship to any baby born on U.S. soil, a move opposed by immigrant rights advocates.

Supporters of Deal’s proposal say “birthright citizenship” encourages illegal immigration and makes enforcement of immigration laws more difficult. Opponents say the proposed law wouldn’t solve the illegal immigration problem and goes against this country’s traditions of welcoming immigrants.

Automatic citizenship is enshrined in the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, which says: “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.” That provision, ratified in 1868, was drafted with freed slaves in mind.

Deal and his supporters say the 14th Amendment wording was never meant to automatically give citizenship to babies born to illegal immigrants.

More... (http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/stories/2009/05/25/citizenship_bill.html)

Congressman Deal's bill (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-1868) already has 46 cosponsors, but only one of them is a Democrat. There's no reason why someone should automatically become a citizen of the greatest country in the world just because the child's mother snuck here long enough to deliver a baby.

[Fallen]

The concept of automatically being a citizen because you were born here is a bit ..odd, from some angles, but I suppose it can't be helped.

[Back]

The concept of automatically being a citizen because you were born here is a bit ..odd, from some angles, but I suppose it can't be helped.

Odd? In the sense that our planet is not owned by anyone, yeah. How can you determine citizenship otherwise?

[Ravenstorm]

Sonofabitch. I actually agree with ClydeR on something. I wouldn't at all object to rewriting that provision so that it's a lot more clear and applies only to people here legally due to the citizenship of a parent or a visa giving permission to live and work here.

[Kuyuk]

meh, I dont give a shit. if you're lucky enough to be born here because your parents (mom) was able to sneak in, congrats, you hopefully will get a better life than where she was before.


K.

[Parkbandit]

Odd? In the sense that our planet is not owned by anyone, yeah. How can you determine citizenship otherwise?

So, according to you, we shouldn't even have countries, cities, counties, states, etc... Because no one owns Earth. Open every border, get rid of all governments and hug.

Do you ever wonder why everyone laughs at you?

[Kuyuk]

imagine there's no countries... it isnt hard to do...

[Valthissa]

Odd? In the sense that our planet is not owned by anyone, yeah. How can you determine citizenship otherwise?

like say, Germany?

If you are born to non-German parents in Germany and they have lived in Germany for 8 years and are EU citizens, then you can be German by birth. Otherwise, you are the nationality of your parents.

How a country determines citizenship is one of the most basic functions of govenment and there are many different models to choose from.

In my opinion there is no going back from the current laws on US citizenship.

C/Valth

[Back]

So, according to you, we shouldn't even have countries, cities, counties, states, etc... Because no one owns Earth. Open every border, get rid of all governments and hug.

Do you ever wonder why everyone laughs at you?

I think you could use a hug.

:hug:

[Parkbandit]

I think you could use a hug.

:hug:
The last thing I would ever want is a hug from you. I wouldn't take a chance of your "special" kind of stupidity being contageous.

[Ignot]

So, according to you, we shouldn't even have countries, cities, counties, states, etc... Because no one owns Earth. Open every border, get rid of all governments and hug.


That's what you took away from Back's comment?

[Keller]

That's what you took away from Back's comment?

Is that a rhetorical question?

[Back]

Is that a rhetorical question?

THAT is a rhetorical question.

[Parkbandit]

That's what you took away from Back's comment?
Obviously it is... thus my post. I realize this is a political thread and your lack of any intelligent contribution is perfectly recorded... but perhaps you could state what you got out of Backlash's post?

[Back]

Ahem... allow me to explain. Ignot is not culpable for my posts.

My comment raised political debate. Valthissa raised another valid question...

Where is a person truly from? A mother, obviously. A continent or city?

This isnt a debate about anarchy as PB would like to project. Its about family.

[Keller]

THAT is a rhetorical question.

:love:

[Sean of the Thread]

watever they have free health care whilst I sit here partially paralyzed in angst.

[thefarmer]

watever they have free health care whilst I sit here partially paralyzed in angst.

Go do something about it then.

[Cido]

Near completely off topic, only relating where immigrants are involved.

I was listening to some radio interview with an illegal immigrant.

The one statement that he said made a lot of sense to me. Paraphrased: "I believe it is the right of any man to work for a living."

It strikes me that the whole immigration issue should be one that the political right should be in support of.

The reason I say this is that it's my understanding that the political right are largely in favor of a free market. Immigrants increase the pool of labor from which free market capitalism is able to draw from. Increasing the labor competition reduces the cost of employees on businesses.

Now there are a slew of other problems immigrants can cause, the only one coming to mind right now being emergency hospital care where illegal immigrants go to the ER for child birth or other emergencies which distributes the cost among the rest of us in one way or another.

If these immigrants get jobs legitimately and these business owners employ them legitimately, what's the problem?

Disclaimer:

Currently I'm leaning more left than right though I like to say I'm a moderate, and my statements above are mostly tongue in cheek.

[MrTastyHead]

Yeah man, stop bitching and just go change the horrible business that is the health care of our citizens.

[TheWitch]

The reason I say this is that it's my understanding that the political right are largely in favor of a free market. Immigrants increase the pool of labor from which free market capitalism is able to draw from. Increasing the labor competition reduces the cost of employees on businesses.

The ones that migrate within the rules of the country may have this effect, but if they're following the rules they're also protected by minimum wage laws and therefore have very little actual impact on wages.

This issue isn't the legal immigrant, who applies for citizenship and becomes naturalized, and pays taxes, and doesn't send the majority of the money they earn back to Mexico or India or wherever.

The issue is illegal immigration, immigrants that come in under the radar, come in on visas and never leave, sneak in to give birth to anchor babies, etc. They're often working off the books, for cash, which they often send back to their home countries.

And they're costing us billions.

I agree, every man has a right to work for a living.
Within the rules and laws of the society in which he seeks to work.
If he is not following those rules and laws, and his presence is creating expense and hardship for the people in the country that are following the rules, then no. He does not have that right.

[Sean of the Thread]

Go do something about it then.


any suggestions? I should try to get a job at the fucking paralyzed farm but only if they off health ins...

[Stanley Burrell]

I've seen something before, where if you are born in The United States, you are a citizen of the United States. It's pretty much the coolest most awesome thing in the world, I guess.

We should all be thrown into a random caste system, though, and have the untouchables assigned to a particular race, ethnicity, gender, sexual preference, creed, religious denomination, height, allergies, favorite rap artist, reciprocation of oral.

And GemStone fame.

The Statue of Liberty says something like, "Give us your poor your tired your huddled masses longing to be free." But the French gave that monolith to us, so we should do exactly the opposite of any inscriptions on French statues given to us say. Word the fuck up bitches.

[Cido]

The ones that migrate within the rules of the country may have this effect, but if they're following the rules they're also protected by minimum wage laws and therefore have very little actual impact on wages.

This issue isn't the legal immigrant, who applies for citizenship and becomes naturalized, and pays taxes, and doesn't send the majority of the money they earn back to Mexico or India or wherever.

The issue is illegal immigration, immigrants that come in under the radar, come in on visas and never leave, sneak in to give birth to anchor babies, etc. They're often working off the books, for cash, which they often send back to their home countries.

And they're costing us billions.

I agree, every man has a right to work for a living.
Within the rules and laws of the society in which he seeks to work.
If he is not following those rules and laws, and his presence is creating expense and hardship for the people in the country that are following the rules, then no. He does not have that right.

Yeah, the minimum wage thing is not part of the free market ideal, so that's true.

You actually hit on something else that needs to be added to the list, the sending cash abroad topic. I'm not entirely sure how to respond to that one. I'm inclined to continue to denounce, via sarcasm, the free market. Whether they keep the money in the states or send it abroad, isn't it their money to do with what they want?

Granted, this would still not fix the problem that illegal workers receiving under the table money send it abroad without taxes.

I think the issue of employing illegal immigrants is a problem on the employer's side, and there should be oversight on employment practices.

[TheWitch]

Yeah, the minimum wage thing is not part of the free market ideal, so that's true.

You actually hit on something else that needs to be added to the list, the sending cash abroad topic. I'm not entirely sure how to respond to that one. I'm inclined to continue to denounce, via sarcasm, the free market. Whether they keep the money in the states or send it abroad, isn't it their money to do with what they want?

Granted, this would still not fix the problem that illegal workers receiving under the table money send it abroad without taxes.

I think the issue of employing illegal immigrants is a problem on the employer's side, and there should be oversight on employment practices.

Of course it's their money, and if they earned it legitimately, and paid taxes on it to help pay for all the great things about this country that are why they came here in the first place, and fed and clothed their children without government assistance and are not living in rent stabilized housing and are not using public assistance of any kind... and if there's still some left to send to India, by all means! Here's a stamp!

To your last point, it is on the employers, I agree, but it's also on us as consumers to a certain extent. IE, Ask your lawn service if their workers are all documented. If they won't or can't answer, find a different lawn service - or do your own lawn and save $40 a week!

[crb]

this is stupid. Birthright is fundamental and repealing it is dumb.

I hate illegal immigration just as much as the next guy. The answer to fix it is...

1. Build a motherfucking wall. If the chinese could build a wall to keep on the mongols thousands of years ago, we should be able to do it now. I mean a good wall, with a moat, filled with crocodiles, that goes deep, with razor wire. Concrete and steel.

2. Fuck sanctuary cities. Make it federal policy that all federal money is withheld from any city that adopts "sanctuary city" rules. No money for roads, for after school programs, for parks, the purse is closed. Either those cities play game and report criminal illegals they arrest, or no more federal dollars.

3. Legalize the people already here (who aren't criminals other than their border crossing), I'd rather they be legal and paying taxes than for my tax dollars to be spent on deporting 10 million people. Do you know how expensive it is to deport 10 million people?

4. Make it easier to come here legally, but also put on more reporting requirements. No more temporary visa people just staying when it expires. Make it a crime akin to harboring a fugitive to help someone avoid immigration authorities.

5. temporary worker program.

But to say kids born here aren't US citizens is fucking retarded, it will not fix anything.

[Cido]

To your last point, it is on the employers, I agree, but it's also on us as consumers to a certain extent. IE, Ask your lawn service if their workers are all documented. If they won't or can't answer, find a different lawn service - or do your own lawn and save $40 a week!

In general terms, you're right. After talking it out w/ a coworker, it seems like there's a need for some kind of gov't program that checks on employers.

I say this, because we would all have to be patriots over free marketeers in order to make it our responsibility to make sure our contractors etc. are only hiring legal immigrants.

Individually, a person is most interested in getting the lowest price for their goods. Some patriots would be interested in doing the "right" thing by asking about the employee status, but it would take a consolidated effort to make sure we effectively influenced employers to hire only legals.

There's a problem with this since a free market shuns gov't intervention.

I'm not sure how to end this comment, so I'll just hit submit.

[Bhuryn]

The funniest thing in this entire thread is there are people that thing the US is actually a free market :help: .

[TheWitch]

In general terms, you're right. After talking it out w/ a coworker, it seems like there's a need for some kind of gov't program that checks on employers.

I say this, because we would all have to be patriots over free marketeers in order to make it our responsibility to make sure our contractors etc. are only hiring legal immigrants.

Individually, a person is most interested in getting the lowest price for their goods. Some patriots would be interested in doing the "right" thing by asking about the employee status, but it would take a consolidated effort to make sure we effectively influenced employers to hire only legals.

There's a problem with this since a free market shuns gov't intervention.

I'm not sure how to end this comment, so I'll just hit submit.

Yea, this isn't really a free market anymore, it hasn't been for a long time if it ever truly was. And I used to be much, much less of a "patriot" as far as buying American or considering whether the company I buy from is following the rules or breaking them before making my purchasing decision. Which makes no difference in the big picture, but it makes me feel better.

That was also before so much of our manufacturing got shipped overseas and the jobs with them, before the nanny state decided to treat illegals better than it treats citizens in some key respects and before it became apparent that in a global marketplace, we're the only ones not actively engaged in protectionism and we're screwing ourselves in the process.

I halfway agree with CRB, just let the ones that are here have status. But I do agree with the idea of the changing the citizenship amendment, that's a huge carrot.

[ClydeR]

Texas Republican Rep. Louie Gohmert alleged Wednesday that al Qaeda operatives were being taught to “act like Hispanic” and cross the border illegally into the United States.

“We know al Qaeda has camps over with the drug cartels on the other side of the Mexican border,” Gohmert said on C-SPAN. “We know people are being trained to come in and act like Hispanic when they’re radical Islamists. We know these things are happening. It’s just insane not to protect ourselves.”
Continue Reading

Gohmert, a vocal opponent of immigration reform, has previously argued the United States should end birthright citizenship because of the possibility of al Qaeda or other terrorist organizations could brings women to the United States to have children.

More... (http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/louie-gohmert-al-qaeda-told-to-act-hispanic-90212.html?hp=l12)

The anchor baby issue is back!


They showed how the infiltration could work on Southpark..
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/155583/mexican-spies

[Jarvan]

this is stupid. Birthright is fundamental and repealing it is dumb.

I hate illegal immigration just as much as the next guy. The answer to fix it is...

1. Build a motherfucking wall. If the chinese could build a wall to keep on the mongols thousands of years ago, we should be able to do it now. I mean a good wall, with a moat, filled with crocodiles, that goes deep, with razor wire. Concrete and steel.

2. Fuck sanctuary cities. Make it federal policy that all federal money is withheld from any city that adopts "sanctuary city" rules. No money for roads, for after school programs, for parks, the purse is closed. Either those cities play game and report criminal illegals they arrest, or no more federal dollars.

3. Legalize the people already here (who aren't criminals other than their border crossing), I'd rather they be legal and paying taxes than for my tax dollars to be spent on deporting 10 million people. Do you know how expensive it is to deport 10 million people?

4. Make it easier to come here legally, but also put on more reporting requirements. No more temporary visa people just staying when it expires. Make it a crime akin to harboring a fugitive to help someone avoid immigration authorities.

5. temporary worker program.

But to say kids born here aren't US citizens is fucking retarded, it will not fix anything.

Chinese wall didn't work.

The only thing I find wrong with the whole "kids born here are US citizens" is when it's abused. Like the place in CA that advertises to pregnant women to come there to have their babies so they can stay in the US. See, that's the real issue, the mom's don't come here so that their babies have a better life.. they sneak in and have a kid so THEY can have a better life. After all, we refuse to kick out someone who has a kid while here since it would be "morally wrong". I don't really see how it is myself. The kid is a citizen, fine. Doesn't mean the parents can stay, and frankly, they should be barred from ever getting citizenship, or a visa/green card, no matter what for violating the law. Kid can go back with them if the parents choose, secure in the knowledge that when they are older, they can legally come here. Or they can stay and get adopted/enter the system.

Sucks.. but better then all this "anchor baby" crap.

But yes, it should be easier to come here legally. We do need a wall, and not this lame ass fence bullshit that people just climb over/under. There is only two options. A secure border, or no border at all. The second option will never work.

[Latrinsorm]

If those are the only options, how has America survived for 2+ centuries with neither? Also please keep in mind that we were openly at war with our neighbors for significant stretches of the first 150 years or so.

[ClydeR]

See, that's the real issue, the mom's don't come here so that their babies have a better life.. they sneak in and have a kid so THEY can have a better life. After all, we refuse to kick out someone who has a kid while here since it would be "morally wrong".

Source please? Because that's not what I read. I read (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/aug/06/lindsey-graham/illegal-immigrants-anchor-babies-birthright/) that we deport anybody who comes here illegally to have a baby just like anybody else who comes here illegally. The only relief, which we should definitely repeal, from deportation is for someone who has been here illegally for 10 years and then be pregnant or have a baby, and the government may extend that relief to a maximum of 4,000 people per year.

If you're here illegally and have a baby, we're going to deport you and probably your baby too. Your baby will, under current interpretations of the law, be a citizen who will be eligible to return later if the child can document that he or she was born in this country.

[ClydeR]

A House Committe held a hearing last week on ending birthright citizenship for anchor babies. Watch this (http://judiciary.house.gov/index.cfm/2015/4/hearing-birthright-citizenship-is-it-the-right-policy-for-america) two hour and fifty-nine minute video of the hearing to see how it went. Or you could read this article..

http://dailycaller.com/2015/04/30/university-chair-makes-pretty-convincing-argument-against-constitutionality-of-birthright-citizenship/