FI

[Lumi]

So here's a completely serious question for the sorcery community.

Why is it that, when cast by a creature, this spell has a 100% kill rate, regardless of my own state?

Admittedly, I don't spend a -ton- of time hunting creatures that cast it, but to date, it has had a 100% kill rate when cast at me. Uninjured, unimpaired, unstunned, unencumbered, the whole nine yards.

Instant obliteration and trip back to town. Every. Goddamn. Time.

Is there a reason for this? Because I know from all the bitching on this side of the fence that it doesn't work that way for PCs.

What the fuck? This is getting old.

[Maerit]

My guess, and it's purely a guess. Casting critters are likely designed to have the benefit of 2x spell aim skills. Secondly, you probably up-hunt. Thus, based on the spell formula, implosion will often obliterate something of lower level when 2x in spell aiming. I find that my pure will die to this spell all the time. I find that my warrior with redux will often survive implosion from a critter, but usually in a big stun.

Only thing I can think of.

Try using 703 to prevent them from casting any spells.

[Khariz]

I regurlay get hit by implosion from critters the same/higher train than me and don't die. I'd still say they have at least an 85% kill rate though.

[Lumi]

My guess, and it's purely a guess. Casting critters are likely designed to have the benefit of 2x spell aim skills. Secondly, you probably up-hunt. Thus, based on the spell formula, implosion will often obliterate something of lower level when 2x in spell aiming. I find that my pure will die to this spell all the time. I find that my warrior with redux will often survive implosion from a critter, but usually in a big stun.

Only thing I can think of.

Try using 703 to prevent them from casting any spells.

I'm not a sorc, so no 703. I rely on stuns to keep them from casting, but for the first time ever, I hit one with 1030 today and it didn't get stunned at all. Never seen that before, ever. I (the player!) was literally stunned when I saw it.

And a moment later I (the character) was dead.



I regurlay get hit by implosion from critters the same/higher train than me and don't die. I'd still say they have at least an 85% kill rate though.


You...regularly get hit and survive, but say it has an 85% kill rate...not sure how "15% survival rate" equals "regularly survive" :confused:

[radamanthys]

For FI (as with, say, meteor storm), 15% is a pretty good number.

[Fallen]

Critter cast implosion destroys the Player cast implosion.

As you may know, 102 and 207 supposedly help against implosion. No idea if spells like Mobility are supposed to help. Armor coverage seems to help. I see critter's brigandine and such getting in the way of the blow. But yeah, from a Critter Vrs Player standpoint, Implosion is crazy overpowered.

But let me ask you this. What do you think would kill people that were otherwise specced out for combat near cap?

[Abyran'sa]

So here's a completely serious question for the sorcery community.
Is there a reason for this? Because I know from all the bitching on this side of the fence that it doesn't work that way for PCs.
What the fuck? This is getting old.

Yes, simply put… Sorcerers are THAT AWESOME. Characters should tremble in fear at the very thought (or stay awake via 713’s) of the wanton destruction that any competent Sorcerer is capable of creating. Sorcerers are like the crazy militia nut that every town has, the one who scares the hell out of any normal person (and the ATF) with his awesome collection of machine guns/bombs/homemade ICBMs, but when the zombies invade, whose house are you going to run to?

Proof of this power? Why aren’t there any Sorcerer bandits that attack travelers? Because there would be no phat loot (or anything) remaining to steal, and the destruction would lead to a lack of inter-(city)state commerce. I will satisfy the naysayers and support this by mentioning that there aren’t any a) Empath bandits because vultures don’t have fly if the meat walks to them b) wizzie bandits because there is no reason to risk one’s hide when one can earn more silver enchanting c) Cleric bandits because marks actually go to temples to ‘offer loot’ without fighting, and d) ranger bandits… because they couldn’t find the ambush spot on the map. :)
Secondly, consider a brief list of accomplishments in Elanthian history. Without significant thought on making a list, one can remember that Sorcery is responsible for: Despana’s rise to power and subsequent defeat, creation of Shadow Valley, the destruction of house Ashrim, the fall of the drakes, Darkstone castle, taxes, the fall of the true Elven empire, and hangnails.

The downside to all of this power is might be linked to something Yoda once said, and unfortunately it is hard to actually balance that sort of uberness in non tabletop RPG game where each Sorcerer lacks a full time GM to keep them from destroying the multiverse. Thus PC Sorcerers in GS end up being forced to wear invisible nerf-shackles, which let them have ‘pwn’ power in the documentation (compared to other professions) and ‘meh’ power in game (v. those same professions). Honestly, it is a situation I have learned to deal with. Least I can scare NPCs.

Sereg's Sorcerer loving puppeteer

[zhelas]

So here's a completely serious question for the sorcery community.

Why is it that, when cast by a creature, this spell has a 100% kill rate, regardless of my own state?

Admittedly, I don't spend a -ton- of time hunting creatures that cast it, but to date, it has had a 100% kill rate when cast at me. Uninjured, unimpaired, unstunned, unencumbered, the whole nine yards.

Instant obliteration and trip back to town. Every. Goddamn. Time.

Is there a reason for this? Because I know from all the bitching on this side of the fence that it doesn't work that way for PCs.

What the fuck? This is getting old.

Somewhere this discussion has come up either here or on the officials. Player based FI was tweaked especially when it comes to Character vs Sorcerer. Character FI isn't 100% fatal. Even sitting at Cap being fully 2x in Spell Aim it can take Zhelas, on occassion, 2 casts to kill a level 92 creature.

I wouldn't be surprised that the Creature spell system is configured or tweaked differently thus everytime you see a Vesp or a Sentry cast it's spells you know you are going to be imploded 100% of the time, unless you can disrupt their casting.

Peace

[Khariz]

Critter cast implosion destroys the Player cast implosion.

As you may know, 102 and 207 supposedly help against implosion. No idea if spells like Mobility are supposed to help. Armor coverage seems to help. I see critter's brigandine and such getting in the way of the blow. But yeah, from a Critter Vrs Player standpoint, Implosion is crazy overpowered.

But let me ask you this. What do you think would kill people that were otherwise specced out for combat near cap?

yeah, I think that's a good point.

I die from three things at cap.

1. Focused Implosion.

2. Major e-wave

3. An occasional high roll Nature's Fury.

[Fallen]

Major E-wave can be largely mitigated by outside spells and elementally resistant gear. It CAN be fatal, but you can seriously stack the odds in your favor. Nature's Fury is a given. Most people at cap can get their TD to the point where if it CAN hit them, it wont do much. Other common causes are Charge (Padding, CM/PT training, Puncture resistance, outside spells, Cubes, etc), Crystal flares (Spell tank past point of being able to be hit)

Implosion? You're straight fucked. Implosion is basically the only thing you can't do much against. I don't even think it takes your encumbrance level into account. All that being said, I see implosion taking a downturn in power in the next 5 years. Once the Dodge/Maneuvers review comes into effect, expect Dodge training to largely mitigate maneuver damage, giving a rightfully deserved edge to Warriors/Rogues/Rangers/etc.

[zhelas]

Yes, simply put… Sorcerers are THAT AWESOME. Characters should tremble in fear at the very thought (or stay awake via 713’s) of the wanton destruction that any competent Sorcerer is capable of creating. Sorcerers are like the crazy militia nut that every town has, the one who scares the hell out of any normal person (and the ATF) with his awesome collection of machine guns/bombs/homemade ICBMs, but when the zombies invade, whose house are you going to run to?

Proof of this power? Why aren’t there any Sorcerer bandits that attack travelers? Because there would be no phat loot (or anything) remaining to steal, and the destruction would lead to a lack of inter-(city)state commerce. I will satisfy the naysayers and support this by mentioning that there aren’t any a) Empath bandits because vultures don’t have fly if the meat walks to them b) wizzie bandits because there is no reason to risk one’s hide when one can earn more silver enchanting c) Cleric bandits because marks actually go to temples to ‘offer loot’ without fighting, and d) ranger bandits… because they couldn’t find the ambush spot on the map. :)
Secondly, consider a brief list of accomplishments in Elanthian history. Without significant thought on making a list, one can remember that Sorcery is responsible for: Despana’s rise to power and subsequent defeat, creation of Shadow Valley, the destruction of house Ashrim, the fall of the drakes, Darkstone castle, taxes, the fall of the true Elven empire, and hangnails.

The downside to all of this power is might be linked to something Yoda once said, and unfortunately it is hard to actually balance that sort of uberness in non tabletop RPG game where each Sorcerer lacks a full time GM to keep them from destroying the multiverse. Thus PC Sorcerers in GS end up being forced to wear invisible nerf-shackles, which let them have ‘pwn’ power in the documentation (compared to other professions) and ‘meh’ power in game (v. those same professions). Honestly, it is a situation I have learned to deal with. Least I can scare NPCs.

Sereg's Sorcerer loving puppeteer

Hey stop drinking the potions you are brewing in the guild :) Or atleast distribute them:)

[radamanthys]

Hey stop drinking the potions you are brewing in the guild :) Or atleast distribute them:)

Hey! That post was the shit!

That said, I'm drinking those potions, too...

[Abyran'sa]

Hey stop drinking the potions you are brewing in the guild :) Or atleast distribute them:)

I am not drinking the potions, it is all the fumes an alchemist inhales... or maybe lead/quicksilver/doomstone poisoning from handling too much dangerous stuff.

We really need to set up little voids in our cauldron workshops to work as some sort of ventilation system, but there are already like 7 ways do die in the Sorcerer Guilds, so we might as well keep toxic fumes! :tumble:

[TheWitch]

Nothing to add except that was really funny, Sereg.

Hi, guys. :hug2:

[Winowyll]

Another thing that could really help avoid receiving death by implosion...know which creatures cast them and then just skip them, move to another room, and prepare to go back into that room with 703. if that fails...uhm...why are you still in that room. Get out, 709, cast, then go back and try again. Your chances of survival are better. Also, first cast 703 is great if you can get it off. I see a sentry or dissembler in the temple, I cast that as quick as possible. If it fails to ward, just leave to the next room. No sense sticking around waiting to get hit with something that has a really, really good chance of killing you.

[zhelas]

Hey! That post was the shit!

That said, I'm drinking those potions, too...

So True!

We really need to set up little voids in our cauldron workshops to work as some sort of ventilation system, but there are already like 7 ways do die in the Sorcerer Guilds, so we might as well keep toxic fumes!
You have my vote for official Sorcerer Guild architect!

Nothing to add except that was really funny, Sereg.

Hi, guys. :hug2:

Hey there Rheisia. Has the GS Alchemy Hangover worn off? :)

[Fallen]

What Lumi could do as a bard against FI is cast 417 at every creature that is capable of casting it upon encountering them. Expensive, but the costs can be reduced with Mana Control training. That way she knows one isn't sitting there with the spell already prepped, and if she sees one prep the spell, she can either run (and fuck someone else over), or dispel it.

[zhelas]

Don't bards have that song of noise or something that is supposed to disrupt casting?

[zhelas]

What Lumi could do as a bard against FI is cast 417 at every creature that is capable of casting it upon encountering them. Expensive, but the costs can be reduced with Mana Control training. That way she knows one isn't sitting there with the spell already prepped, and if she sees one prep the spell, she can either run (and fuck someone else over), or dispel it.

Becareful running around there with a spell pre prepped. Lost Souls cast 417 or something like that and if you have a spell pre prepped = nasty nerve damage.

[TheWitch]

Hey there Rheisia. Has the GS Alchemy Hangover worn off? :)

Heh, no. Not even close. September, at best.

Lumi's a he.

I assume this is the rift, for which I actualy do have a suggestion:
Hunt somewhere else. :tumble:

mkay, back to my spreadsheets.

[Fallen]

Becareful running around there with a spell pre prepped. Lost Souls cast 417 or something like that and if you have a spell pre prepped = nasty nerve damage.

No need to keep the spell prepped. You can just macro it to a key and hit it when you see one. Make use of the PEER verb as well. Lumi is a casting bard, not a swinging bard, so Song of Noise is out. While it may help the problem, it would completely shut down his own ability to hunt.

[Lumi]

Holy shit, this is different than the sorcerer folder on the officials =P

I appreciate the (deluge of) responses.


As you may know, 102 and 207 supposedly help against implosion. No idea if spells like Mobility are supposed to help...

But let me ask you this. What do you think would kill people that were otherwise specced out for combat near cap?

Rift == no 102/207/618 for me. On the one hand, sadness. On the other, I love hunting someplace that REFUSES to allow spell tanking, because I don't have to bother with all those outside spells.


Once the Dodge/Maneuvers review comes into effect, expect Dodge training to largely mitigate maneuver damage, giving a rightfully deserved edge to Warriors/Rogues/Rangers/etc.

Honestly, dodging doesn't seem like a logical defense to me. Where are you going to "dodge" to? It's a vortex, sucking in everything around it. Logical defenses to me seem like weight, CON, STR, and hell...encumbrance.

By which I mean if you're totally weighted down with shit, it should be HARDER for you to get sucked in. Think about it :)


know which creatures cast them and then just skip them, move to another room, and prepare to go back into that room with 703. if that fails...uhm...why are you still in that room. Get out, 709, cast, then go back and try again. Your chances of survival are better. Also, first cast 703 is great if you can get it off.

Luminasa == bard :(

Also...


What Lumi could do as a bard against FI is cast 417 at every creature that is capable of casting it upon encountering them. Expensive, but the costs can be reduced with Mana Control training. That way *she* knows one isn't sitting there with the spell already prepped, and if she sees one prep the spell, she can either run (and fuck someone else over), or dispel it.


Lumi's a he.

Thank you, Rheisia ;)

But, the advice is really good. I hadn't thought about using 417 on vaespilons. I will have to try that.



I assume this is the rift, for which I actualy do have a suggestion:
Hunt somewhere else. :tumble:


Heh. Implosion aside, I'm LOVING the Rift. Which came as quite the surprise when I first tried it. I like it way more than OTF (so far, we'll see how it goes as I get closer to cap).


Don't bards have that song of noise or something that is supposed to disrupt casting?

We do, but it's HEAVILY level dependent, and vaesps spawn 7 levels over me at base. I need to wear Courage just to keep from being sheer feared by them; my Noise wouldn't work very well on them. Also...


Lumi is a casting bard, not a swinging bard, so Song of Noise is out. While it may help the problem, it would completely shut down his own ability to hunt.

This is 99% true.

1) It IS possible to cast through my own Noise. Just really, really hard (unreliable).
2) It's possible to room dance around Noise so I can still cast, but it increases the chances of being cast AT without Noise being there to disrupt the spell.

Just pointing out some silliness about the spell. Evarin's verdict about it being a non-option for me is, for all intents and purposes, quite accurate.

So in the end, I now have this 417 strategy to try, so I'm quite grateful to you guys for pointing it out. Danke, sorcerer-types.

[Fallen]

Rift == no 102/207/618 for me. On the one hand, sadness. On the other, I love hunting someplace that REFUSES to allow spell tanking, because I don't have to bother with all those outside spells.

Sqaures can spell tank just fine. They can wear 101-120, 401-414 without even worrying about spellburst.

[Lumi]

Sqaures can spell tank just fine. They can wear 101-120, 401-414 without even worrying about spellburst.

Huh. Okay, fair point, squares can spell tank (ironic, huh)?

Regardless, *I* don't have to worry about it :D