Shield Conversions

[Lucos]

OK the issue was brought up in the High End Sale folder in regards to "a phalanx shield". Wrathbringer states that if the shield is an old unconverted tower shield (tower shield before the new shield mechanics) that it can be converted to a tower shield, even if the "phalanx" name isn't on the official conversion list for tower shields.

I called bullshit. All of my experiences with the shield converter in the NPC armory worked off that list and if the shield had a name that was not on any of the lists, it stayed a medium shield. I've had several high enchant GSIII tower shields altered into bucklers, and then when the new shield mechanics came out, they converted to small based in the conversion chamber. I've also had one high enchant GSIII "shield" altered into a tower shield before the new shield mechanics and it converted to tower class. I have several odd-named shields that won't convert to anything.

So, am I missing something here? Here is what this guy is stating...


It's like this. If the noun isn't on the approved list of tower shields, then you cannot convert it to a tower shield. I don't care what is USED to be...it could have been a tower shield back in GS3, and then you altered it into a phalanx shield....and as soon as you did that, it is no longer an "unconverted tower shield". It is an unapproved shield name.

Now you can ask that phalanx be put on the approved list of names for tower and then you can convert it to a true mechanical tower shield, but until then, it is a medium shield.

Phalanx could also possibly be in the approved noun category in the conversion chamber and not on the list posted on the website, but I doubt it.

Expierienced enough for you, or do you need more minute details on how the process works?




Originally Posted by Lucos View Post
It's like this. If the noun isn't on the approved list of tower shields, then you cannot convert it to a tower shield. I don't care what is USED to be...it could have been a tower shield back in GS3, and then you altered it into a phalanx shield....and as soon as you did that, it is no longer an "unconverted tower shield". It is an unapproved shield name. This isn't true. I've assisted and had it done with an unconverted tower shield altered to be a warshield. It was made into a tower.

Now you can ask that phalanx be put on the approved list of names for tower and then you can convert it to a true mechanical tower shield, but until then, it is a medium shield.
Also not true. Phalanx is already on the approved list for towers, just not listed on the website, and can be converted at any time.

Phalanx could also possibly be in the approved noun category in the conversion chamber and not on the list posted on the website, but I doubt it.
Actually, this is the case (whether you doubt it or not makes no difference) and so you've just contradicted your entire argument as you've stated it above- "It is an unapproved shield name". Why you'd make the first argument only to contradict it later makes no sense. Maybe you're stating both sides of the argument so that you can say you're right no matter which position is correct. I can only guess at this point.

Expierienced enough for you, or do you need more minute details on how the process works?
To sum up, you were wrong twice, then made a statement that you doubted which turned out to be correct and proved yourself wrong. Well done. No, I think your job is finished here. Thanks.

But I can agree with you here: The stupid... It does indeed burn. Vivina, I'm finished here.



So what is it? I've always been told the only thing that matters is the shield name. The fact that it used to be a tower before the new shield mechanics came out doesn't mean shit unless it is still a tower.

[Latrinsorm]

You're talking about two different things: you're talking about using the chamber, Wraithbringer is talking about through an assist. The only factual point of disagreement is whether "phalanx" is on some phantom unreleased list, and the only two ways to test that are to throw an unconverted phalanx in there and see what happens or assist and hope you get a communicative GM.

[Lucos]

You're talking about two different things: you're talking about using the chamber, Wraithbringer is talking about through an assist. The only factual point of disagreement is whether "phalanx" is on some phantom unreleased list, and the only two ways to test that are to throw an unconverted phalanx in there and see what happens or assist and hope you get a communicative GM.

The only reason you would do an assist to convert a shield is to get around policy. As far as I am concerned, the only way to convert a shield is to use the converter. If that is broken, then assist. If you have a name you think should be in the list, then submit the request.

[thefarmer]

The only way I can see a phalanx shield being converted into a tower is:

A) Player convinces stupid GM to convert it on Assist (though it shouldn't be)

B) Unpublicized approved tower shield noun in the shield converter system

Even with those two possibilities, I'm still with Lucos on calling it BS.

[Wrathbringer]

OK the issue was brought up in the High End Sale folder in regards to "a phalanx shield". Wrathbringer states that if the shield is an old unconverted tower shield (tower shield before the new shield mechanics) that it can be converted to a tower shield, even if the "phalanx" name isn't on the official conversion list for tower shields.

I called bullshit. All of my experiences with the shield converter in the NPC armory worked off that list and if the shield had a name that was not on any of the lists, it stayed a medium shield. I've had several high enchant GSIII tower shields altered into bucklers, and then when the new shield mechanics came out, they converted to small based in the conversion chamber. I've also had one high enchant GSIII "shield" altered into a tower shield before the new shield mechanics and it converted to tower class. I have several odd-named shields that won't convert to anything.

So, am I missing something here? Here is what this guy is stating...









So what is it? I've always been told the only thing that matters is the shield name. The fact that it used to be a tower before the new shield mechanics came out doesn't mean shit unless it is still a tower.

Thanks for admitting that you: A. Have no clue (So what is it?) B. Have been arguing this entire time based upon what you've "always been told" and in actuality have absolutely no experience from which to draw on to make your position. Wow. The Stupid. It does indeed burn.

[Lucos]

Thanks for admitting that you: A. Have no clue (So what is it?) B. Have been arguing this entire time based upon what you've "always been told" and in actuality have absolutely no experience from which to draw on to make your position. Wow. The Stupid. It does indeed burn.

You keep saying that, but you fail in reading comprehension.


All of my experiences with the shield converter in the NPC armory worked off that list and if the shield had a name that was not on any of the lists, it stayed a medium shield. I've had several high enchant GSIII tower shields altered into bucklers, and then when the new shield mechanics came out, they converted to small based in the conversion chamber. I've also had one high enchant GSIII "shield" altered into a tower shield before the new shield mechanics and it converted to tower class. I have several odd-named shields that won't convert to anything.

I've had many experiences using the shield converter, although normally it is to convert down to small-based instead of up to tower or large class. But the mechanics are all the same. If the name is not in the list, then it won't convert.

Asking some GM you are blowing on a nightly basis to convert it for you on the sly doesn't count.

[Wrathbringer]

The only way I can see a phalanx shield being converted into a tower is:

A) Player convinces stupid GM to convert it on Assist (though it shouldn't be)

B) Unpublicized approved tower shield noun in the shield converter system

Even with those two possibilities, I'm still with Lucos on calling it BS.

You carefully inspect your black ora shield.

Your careful inspection of an archaic black ora phalanx shield rimmed with rusting razor sharp spikes allows you to conclude that it is a tower shield that protects the bearer if carried in the left hand.

You determine that you could wear the shield, slinging it across your shoulders and back. The shield appears to serve some purpose.

It looks like this item has been mainly crafted out of black ora.

Argue with that.

[thefarmer]

You carefully inspect your black ora shield.

Your careful inspection of an archaic black ora phalanx shield rimmed with rusting razor sharp spikes allows you to conclude that it is a tower shield that protects the bearer if carried in the left hand.

You determine that you could wear the shield, slinging it across your shoulders and back. The shield appears to serve some purpose.

It looks like this item has been mainly crafted out of black ora.

Argue with that.


>inspect hoe
You carefully inspect your alloy-edged hoe.

After a careful inspection you determine that a golvern alloy-edged hoe requires skill in polearms to use effectively. It appears to be a modified jeddart-axe.

It looks like this item has been mainly crafted out of steel.
Roundtime: 5 sec.

Now tell me that a 'hoe' isn't an approved noun for a jeddart-axe....

See what I did there?

[Lumi]

>inspect hoe
You carefully inspect your alloy-edged hoe.

After a careful inspection you determine that a golvern alloy-edged hoe requires skill in polearms to use effectively. It appears to be a modified jeddart-axe.

It looks like this item has been mainly crafted out of steel.
Roundtime: 5 sec.

Now tell me that a 'hoe' isn't an approved noun for a jeddart-axe....

See what I did there?

That is an awesome weapon.

[Wrathbringer]

>inspect hoe
You carefully inspect your alloy-edged hoe.

After a careful inspection you determine that a golvern alloy-edged hoe requires skill in polearms to use effectively. It appears to be a modified jeddart-axe.

It looks like this item has been mainly crafted out of steel.
Roundtime: 5 sec.

Now tell me that a 'hoe' isn't an approved noun for a jeddart-axe....

See what I did there?

Mine became a phalanx shield less than a month ago. When did yours become a hoe?

[Bhuryn]

Mine became a phalanx shield less than a month ago. When did yours become a hoe?

Do the alteration rules require that you maintain "tower" or "wall" in the shield description? Maybe I am missing something but the word Phalanx in that shield appears to be a fluffy adjective.

[Lucos]

Mine became a phalanx shield less than a month ago. When did yours become a hoe?

Ah...so you had a tower shield altered into a phalanx shield....not a phalanx shield converted into a tower shield? Interesting. Of course, it's not too terribly hard to get alterations like that if you can talk a good talk or catch a GM napping.

As far as the name "phalanx" being used, I would most likely give it a thumbs down. The term phalanx is used to describe the formation that soldiers fought in...not the shields they used.

Anyway, it's not the first, nor the last item in GS that is off-center or different.

And I still think you are a fucktard.

[Lucos]

Do the alteration rules require that you maintain "tower" or "wall" in the shield description? Maybe I am missing something but the word Phalanx in that shield appears to be a fluffy adjective.

Hmmm. I would think that most likely not. I know you can remove the "perfect" from a perfectly forged weapon and it still be perfect. I know you can get a shield spiked and request the spikes be put in the show instead of "a spiked whatever shield".

I think the issue is that if you walk up with "a phalanx shield" and try to get it converted to tower class, you are gonna have problems. Taking a tower class shield and altering it into a phalanx shield, no matter how stupid the name is, would be a lot easier.

[Stunseed]

Mine became a phalanx shield less than a month ago. When did yours become a hoe?

I was turned down for the word phalanx on a shield roughly 3 weeks ago. Sadie won't do it, either. It's not legalized, you just caught someone too stupid to know better.

[Wrathbringer]

I was turned down for the word phalanx on a shield roughly 3 weeks ago. Sadie won't do it, either. It's not legalized, you just caught someone too stupid to know better.

I got the black ora phalanx from the Giantman Artisan on run 2. I also have a black eonake phalanx shield that Tiffidy did on EG 07. There's your stupid people. Regardless, it was ok'd as a tower describer on both counts, and that's the issue at hand.

As for the phalanx describing the formation and not the shield, apparently GS doesn't agree with you, Lucos, since 5x Loenthran guard phalanx shields were a part of the game in times past. Again, score one for me.

I tire of arguing with someone who never backs up their position with any evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, then resorts to personal attacks and profanity, the crutch of the unintelligent. A sure sign of victory, that. In any event, best of luck to you, I'm finished here.

[Donquix]

People have provided you with examples that directly contradict your own experiences, you just call them stupid and ignore them. Why do your (apparently isolated) incidents trump everyone elses?

GMs screw up and are inconsistent all the time.

(and you're reading the thread right now. Ain't "who's online" a bitch?)

[Stunseed]

I got the black ora phalanx from the Giantman Artisan on run 2. I also have a black eonake phalanx shield that Tiffidy did on EG 07. There's your stupid people. Regardless, it was ok'd as a tower describer on both counts, and that's the issue at hand.

As for the phalanx describing the formation and not the shield, apparently GS doesn't agree with you, Lucos, since 5x Loenthran guard phalanx shields were a part of the game in times past. Again, score one for me.

I tire of arguing with someone who never backs up their position with any evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, then resorts to personal attacks and profanity, the crutch of the unintelligent. A sure sign of victory, that. In any event, best of luck to you, I'm finished here.


Aren't you the one who believes there are shield names hidden from the populace? Phalanx is not a recognized shield noun. Post on the officials. If you get a NIR to tell you it's a noun you are SUPPOSED to be able to get an alter one, I'll give you one million silvers. Proof from the official side. Lemme know when you strike gold, champ.

[Lucos]

I got the black ora phalanx from the Giantman Artisan on run 2. I also have a black eonake phalanx shield that Tiffidy did on EG 07. There's your stupid people. Regardless, it was ok'd as a tower describer on both counts, and that's the issue at hand.

As for the phalanx describing the formation and not the shield, apparently GS doesn't agree with you, Lucos, since 5x Loenthran guard phalanx shields were a part of the game in times past. Again, score one for me.

I tire of arguing with someone who never backs up their position with any evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, then resorts to personal attacks and profanity, the crutch of the unintelligent. A sure sign of victory, that. In any event, best of luck to you, I'm finished here.

Ya know, you are a child, as I said to you privately. At one point I was interested in finding out if phalanx was now on the approved tower list, but after dealing with you, I'd realize that arguing with you is like trying to have a conversation with a 3 year old child. All you are interested in is keeping some weird score, ignoring any relevant information and then trying to claim some moral high ground by claiming someone is unintelligent, proclaiming victory and then trying to walk away.

I still call what you said complete bullshit. You don't know 10% of what you think you know.

[thefarmer]

Well, well...


Posted by KSPRAGGS2
Approved Shield Nouns · on 5/20/2009 7:32:49 PM 670


Reply
Working on some alteration ideas for the last run of CCF and I need some help. Remembering the old Loenthran Guard phalanx shields, I'm wondering if phalanx is an approved tower describer. Thanks.


Whom also posted this on the officials:


Posted by KSPRAGGS2
A couple armors · on 4/29/2009 2:02:26 PM 478


Reply
a spiked suit of void black vultite platemail-40m
6x Full Plate, Void Flares, Spiked, Max Lightened to 38 lbs.

a suit of shadowy silver spiked vaalorn field plate- 55m
6x Full Plate, Very Heavily Damage Padded, Spiked, Max Lightened to 38 lbs.

Email my play.net if interested.

Which is very similiar to..


a spiked suit of void black vultite platemail-35m
6x Full Plate, Void Flares, Spiked, Max Lightened to 38 lbs.

a suit of shadowy silver spiked vaalorn field plate- 50m
6x Full Plate, Very Heavily Damage Padded, Spiked, Max Lightened to 38 lbs.

PM if interested. Offers welcome. Thanks.

[Winter's Kiss]

Aww... Guess it's a chronic case of Talk the Talk, but can't Walk the Walk..

As for Phalanx, Lucos is right. It's not a shield. It's a formation used by the romans that used to devastate. Additionally.. If you're getting a shield changed into one, you must really win at Gemstone.

Funny how people just go "Nah nah nah nah nah! I win! You lose! I'm right! Neener neener!" like a four year old..

[Bhuryn]

Aww... Guess it's a chronic case of Talk the Talk, but can't Walk the Walk..

As for Phalanx, Lucos is right. It's not a shield. It's a formation used by the romans that used to devastate. Additionally.. If you're getting a shield changed into one, you must really win at Gemstone.

Funny how people just go "Nah nah nah nah nah! I win! You lose! I'm right! Neener neener!" like a four year old..

It was the Greeks actually, the Romans were responsible for the phalanx's downfall =). A shield in this context would be a Aspis or hoplon.

[thefarmer]

Re: Approved Shield Nouns · on 5/25/2009 11:08:41 PM 682


Reply
<<heh...as I've already said in this thread, the person asking the question ALREADY HAS phalanx shields. The question is for future reference, and I'm pretty sure he's asking for a NIR opinion.>>

When different shield sizes were introduced with the released with GS4 a list of approved nouns was also implemented so that the shield name properly reflects the mechanical size of the shield. The complete list of approved nouns is on the website.

Prior to GS4 the nouns used for shields didn't matter because all shields were the same. So with shields made in GS3 they have any number of descriptions and nouns.

Zyllah

[Khariz]

Re: Approved Shield Nouns · on 5/25/2009 11:08:41 PM 682


Reply
<<heh...as I've already said in this thread, the person asking the question ALREADY HAS phalanx shields. The question is for future reference, and I'm pretty sure he's asking for a NIR opinion.>>

When different shield sizes were introduced with the released with GS4 a list of approved nouns was also implemented so that the shield name properly reflects the mechanical size of the shield. The complete list of approved nouns is on the website.

Prior to GS4 the nouns used for shields didn't matter because all shields were the same. So with shields made in GS3 they have any number of descriptions and nouns.

Zyllah

Beat me to it.