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Tisket
05-17-2009, 07:36 PM
I'm of the mind that if you get caught driving under the influence you absolutely should be made to suffer not just with curtailed freedom but financially as well. That being said, the technology used to determine sobriety must be reliable. The possiblity of a false reading should be miniscule. However:

20% possibility of false DUI reading (http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/05/software_proble.html)


May 13, 2009
Software Problems with a Breath Alcohol Detector
This is an excellent lesson in the security problems inherent in trusting proprietary software:

After two years of attempting to get the computer based source code for the Alcotest 7110 MKIII-C, defense counsel in State v. Chun were successful in obtaining the code, and had it analyzed by Base One Technologies, Inc.
Draeger, the manufacturer maintained that the system was perfect, and that revealing the source code would be damaging to its business. They were right about the second part, of course, because it turned out that the code was terrible.

2. Readings are Not Averaged Correctly: When the software takes a series of readings, it first averages the first two readings. Then, it averages the third reading with the average just computed. Then the fourth reading is averaged with the new average, and so on. There is no comment or note detailing a reason for this calculation, which would cause the first reading to have more weight than successive readings. Nonetheless, the comments say that the values should be averaged, and they are not.
3. Results Limited to Small, Discrete Values: The A/D converters measuring the IR readings and the fuel cell readings can produce values between 0 and 4095. However, the software divides the final average(s) by 256, meaning the final result can only have 16 values to represent the five-volt range (or less), or, represent the range of alcohol readings possible. This is a loss of precision in the data; of a possible twelve bits of information, only four bits are used. Further, because of an attribute in the IR calculations, the result value is further divided in half. This means that only 8 values are possible for the IR detection, and this is compared against the 16 values of the fuel cell.

4. Catastrophic Error Detection Is Disabled: An interrupt that detects that the microprocessor is trying to execute an illegal instruction is disabled, meaning that the Alcotest software could appear to run correctly while executing wild branches or invalid code for a period of time. Other interrupts ignored are the Computer Operating Property (a watchdog timer), and the Software Interrupt.

Basically, the system was designed to return some sort of result regardless.

This is important. As we become more and more dependent on software for evidentiary and other legal applications, we need to be able to carefully examine that software for accuracy, reliability, etc. Every government contract for breath alcohol detectors needs to include the requirement for public source code. "You can't look at our code because we don't want you to" simply isn't good enough.

The errors in software discovered will probably lead to thousands of drunk driving convictions being overturned on appeal. Many who deserved the conviction will probably get off scott free now. Wonderful.

Kuyuk
05-17-2009, 07:39 PM
<<Many who deserved the conviction will probably get off scott free now. Wonderful.>>



And many who did not deserve the conviction will probably still suffer for a computing mistake.


K.

Tisket
05-17-2009, 07:43 PM
And many who did not deserve the conviction will probably still suffer for a computing mistake.


That was why I stated:


the technology used to determine sobriety must be reliable. The possiblity of a false reading should be miniscule.

That in no way negates my dissatisfaction that the guilty go free.

Androidpk
05-17-2009, 08:02 PM
Such a misleading subject title, was hoping for something juicier :D

Back
05-18-2009, 12:01 AM
I swear my Taiwanese breather is off. I’ve had about a billion beers since 6pm and I am only showing a .02 and feeling lit. No way I’d get behind the wheel at this point unless it was a family emergency.

thefarmer
05-18-2009, 12:07 AM
Such a misleading subject title, was hoping for something juicier :D

http://www.puppiesandflowers.com/blogimages/august07/breathalyzerBust.jpg

Bhuryn
05-18-2009, 12:14 AM
Doesn't suprise me all that much.

I had a friend that got pulled over once. When everything was said and done he ended up aquiring the unperceptive cop's breathalizer when it "fell" down from the roof of his truck between the cab and topper while the cop was getting something from his car. It was a fun (albeit dangerous) at parties but we noticed it wasn't that consistant sometimes.

diethx
05-18-2009, 12:20 AM
http://www.puppiesandflowers.com/blogimages/august07/breathalyzerBust.jpg

If that guy's 18 then i'm the queen of England. Besides that whole article reads like bullshit.

Skeeter
05-18-2009, 12:22 AM
kinda looks like Stanley

diethx
05-18-2009, 12:24 AM
kinda looks like Stanley

I thought that too. :x

Stanley Burrell
05-18-2009, 01:02 AM
That's actually me. I always wear edible undies so s'ok.

peam
05-18-2009, 01:05 AM
That's actually me. I always wear edible undies so s'ok.

did you get anymore root beer flavor?

Stanley Burrell
05-18-2009, 01:15 AM
did you get anymore root beer flavor?

Hell yeah son. A&W Hanes ftw.

AestheticDeath
05-18-2009, 08:47 AM
A&W sucks.

Stanley Burrell
05-18-2009, 01:47 PM
A&W sucks.

Yeah, it's pretty awful.

I do like Jelly Belly's A&W rootbeer flavored jellybeans. Say what you will.

Deathravin
05-18-2009, 03:12 PM
I feel like a root beer snob sometimes... A&W is vanilly... Mug is okay in a pinch, but my fav right now is IBC. I'm sure that'll change in 2 seconds, but there it is.

Bhuryn
05-18-2009, 04:07 PM
IBC is definatly the best gas station rootbeer.

AestheticDeath
05-18-2009, 06:01 PM
IBC, and Barq's are the only ones I drink. Barq's moreso because I can get it cheaper in the can. I rarely find IBC for less than a pure ripoff. Though most all softdrinks seem to be rising in price. I used to get 12 packs 3 for 5, now I am lucky to get 3 for 10.

Think it might still sell at the dollar store for cheaper then normal in like a liter size plastic/glass bottle.

Gan
05-18-2009, 07:26 PM
I feel like a root beer snob sometimes... A&W is vanilly... Mug is okay in a pinch, but my fav right now is IBC. I'm sure that'll change in 2 seconds, but there it is.

IBC rocks is the best super-mass produced.

There's another made with sugar but I cant think of the name (I'll post when I remember)


And ZOMG!
http://www.root-beer.org/

Stanley Burrell
05-18-2009, 09:55 PM
Sassafras root bark tastes deliciously like root beer. Edit: When made into a tea with an infuser and whatnot. Not, like, chewing on root bark itself.

/root beer RANDOMNESS

Tisket
05-18-2009, 11:08 PM
You guys are fucked in the head. A&W is the BEST.

Androidpk
05-18-2009, 11:26 PM
A&W? Mug? Barqs??

Pshh

Buncha amateurs.

Sean of the Thread
05-19-2009, 07:34 AM
You guys are fucked in the head. A&W is the BEST.


With ice cream tooooooo.