crazy elemental sorc :P

[Morph]

You gesture at a triton executioner.
CS: +572 - TD: +398 + CvA: +20 + d100: +85 == +279
Warding failed!
You blast a triton executioner for 96 points of damage.
... 55 points of damage!
Left eye explodes. Sizzling pieces of brain drip from the empty socket.
The triton executioner collapses, gurgling once with a wrathful look on her face before expiring.

[Proxy]

I <3 blast. was one of my staple spells after gutting all my sorc lore. 111 blast/strike kicked ass more over when I'd blast a critter in a swarm and have the flare remove their leg then 111 the bastard and watch all the pretty flaring which would stun the majority of things(killing the critter it targeted) opening the floor for a well cast open void.

Personaly though I always like the match stick flare from blast more then any others. though the emo flare was freaking sweet to.

[Fallen]

E-blast (409) and E-strike (415) are both highly effective spells if you can get your Elemental CS high enough. A few wizards used to hunt by optimizing for these spells back in the day. It is quite effective. Should either of these two spells see significant damage based lore add-ons, you bet your ass you will see sorcerers training up to and over 75 Minor Elemental ranks for the spell.

One of the great things about 415 is that it changes to a single elemental type if you attune. Great for avoiding lightning in Nelemar. As this will likely be an end-game thing I would imagine for a sorcerer you will want to attune Void to be universally good to go. It will also almost always knock a creature prone on higher endrolls (Creature is knocked over by the blast!). Again, highly useful against squares as it removes their ability to use maneuver attacks.

It is the spell we LACK for killing Squares.

[Mtenda]

Show us the build.

[Celephais]

It is the spell we LACK for killing Squares.
... lack?

[Proxy]

My char's build just prior to me closeing my account and the use of a fixskill was something like this.

Soandso lvl 52
PT = 24 ranks
MIU = 26 ranks
AS = 26 ranks
HP = 52 ranks
SA = 104 ranks
EMC = 52 ranks
SMC = 52 ranks
700s = 52 ranks
100s = 52 ranks
400s = 52 ranks
lores = some, but can't remember which ones and/or how much. Summoning had a decent no in it though for 111
Perception = 26 ranks
climb/swim/first aid/survival = some chump no not worth remembering apparently.

[Fallen]

... lack?

Meh, thought about editing that but didn't really care. If it isn't on your primary circle as a sorcerer, it is highly difficult to hunt with it until endgame. Even with the boost from 425, you just don't have the CS until you start brining your Minor Elemental ranks towards 75, which is usually done post cap. Even sissy stick wielding sorcerers will be getting their 700's to +20 spell ranks for primary sorcerer CS. There is also a hybrid CS based penalty that you would need a number cruncher to explain to you as to why a Sorcerer's non-sorcerer CS sucks unless optimized for it.

Bottom line is it is like saying Rogues don't lack the spells either, or that rangers don't lack Web Bolt/CS based web attacks even though they have access to the spell. It's there. You CAN use it. It just sucks unless you're doing something other than the norm, or are at/post-cap.

[Fallen]

My char's build just prior to me closeing my account and the use of a fixskill was something like this.

Soandso lvl 52
PT = 24 ranks
MIU = 26 ranks
AS = 26 ranks
HP = 52 ranks
SA = 104 ranks
EMC = 52 ranks
SMC = 52 ranks
700s = 52 ranks
100s = 52 ranks
400s = 52 ranks
lores = some, but can't remember which ones and/or how much. Summoning had a decent no in it though for 111
Perception = 26 ranks
climb/swim/first aid/survival = some chump no not worth remembering apparently.

Jesus, Proxy. Fully 3x spells? That's nuts. I can guess as to why you fix skilled, but what finally made you do it?

[Durgrimst]

435 + implosion??

[Celephais]

That's the same issue wizards have, MnE is the lowest priority circle after it reaches 75 (same as sorcs... or sorcs stop at 74, right?), then we need to decide if we want power immolate or more DS/better enchanting.

[Durgrimst]

Jesus, Proxy. Fully 3x spells? That's nuts. I can guess as to why you fix skilled, but what finally made you do it?

My 24 sorc is 3x spells and damn near 1.5x HP

[Fallen]

That's the same issue wizards have, MnE is the lowest priority circle after it reaches 75 (same as sorcs... or sorcs stop at 74, right?), then we need to decide if we want power immolate or more DS/better enchanting.

It depends. I think as a sorcerer you can even stop at 73 if all you care about is Sorcerer CS. The last two ranks are +2 Elemental CS and +2 bolt AS.

Minor Elemental TD for critters is usually pretty tough too. This is primarily because of them being designed around Wizards. You get that huge boost from 425. I'm pretty sure by the nature of wizards being purely Elemental your secondary spell trainin (which in this case would be 500's and 900's) would add to your Minor Elemental CS. As of Immolation, there is absolutely no reason why a wizard should EVER optimize for 409/415 beyond 75 ranks unless he is constantly facing something resistant/immune to fire (or an area), which he shouldn't be after what?The Bowels? Immolation is the best CS based killer in the game, hands down.

Back before Immo? I sure as shit would have been an E-strike build Wizard.

[Fallen]

My 24 sorc is 3x spells and damn near 1.5x HP

heh, yeah, but I imagine you're not 1x/1x/1x, eh?

[Durgrimst]

Yes it is 1x, I'll post the build when I get off work.

[Celephais]

It depends. I think as a sorcerer you can even stop at 73 if all you care about is Sorcerer CS. The last two ranks are +2 Elemental CS and +2 bolt AS.
For starters it's 1/2 AS/ElemCS per rank.


Minor Elemental TD for critters is usually pretty tough too. This is primarily because of them being designed around Wizards. You get that huge boost from 425. I'm pretty sure by the nature of wizards being purely Elemental your secondary spell trainin (which in this case would be 500's and 900's) would add to your Minor Elemental CS. As of Immolation, there is absolutely no reason why a wizard should EVER optimize for 409/415 beyond 75 ranks unless he is constantly facing something resistant/immune to fire (or an area), which he shouldn't be after what?The Bowels. Immolation is the best CS based killer in the game, hands down.
You don't have the correct grasp of how the CS spheres are split. CS is based on ranks in that sphere, and then teriary circles, your Lesser Spirit ranks add just as much CS to minor elemental as sorceror ranks. TD is a different beast when it comes to bonuses from spells... if you get +10 Elemental TD, you get 7.5 Sorc TD and 5 Spirit TD... if you get 10 Sorc TD you get 7.5 Elem TD and 7.5 Spirit TD. This is also how the CS bonuses for 425 work ...

So as it stands right now, creatures have elevated elemental TDs to make up for the bonus provided to elemental casters in 425. There is no difference in creature TD when it comes to warding against 415 or 519.


Back before Immo? I sure as shit would have been an E-strike build Wizard.
And now since Immo is out E-strike is a poor choice to train for, for a wizard.

Also don't forget that the sorc DS spell is in the same sphere they train in for CS, the wizard DS spell is not.

[Proxy]

Jesus, Proxy. Fully 3x spells? That's nuts. I can guess as to why you fix skilled, but what finally made you do it?

You already know that story E, just ref back to the officials in regards to a similar series of posts. Ultimately I actually found that build to be the best I've ever had in GS. And if I where ever to come back I would stick with that one to the exclusion of all else(Since Sorc lores suck and likely will for many wonderful years to come and I'm not overly fond of the 700's aside the direct damage spells). Though I may scale back the 100's a bit and go t 2.5 in spells and shift the tp's into ele/spirit lores depending on how things go with the ele review.

But this is all moot considering I have no plans of ever coming back and if I did I would be literally starting from scratch.


435 + implosion??

Actually, I rarely ever(insert never) used 709/410/435 as a set up spell for o720. I prefer to stun things before imploding and keeping them on their feet. 415 critter/111 415'd critter/o720 critters after stunned from 111. that was my "quick" setup for voiding. my norm was more along the lines of o710...wait...ZAP...o720(more mana efficient this way)

[Fallen]

For starters it's 1/2 AS/ElemCS per rank.

1 CS point in Minor Elemental for training in the rank, and one from 425, yes. I was talking solely about the bonus from 425. My mistake.



You don't have the correct grasp of how the CS spheres are split. CS is based on ranks in that sphere, and then teriary circles, your Lesser Spirit ranks add just as much CS to minor elemental as sorceror ranks. TD is a different beast when it comes to bonuses from spells... if you get +10 Elemental TD, you get 7.5 Sorc TD and 5 Spirit TD... if you get 10 Sorc TD you get 7.5 Elem TD and 7.5 Spirit TD. This is also how the CS bonuses for 425 work ...

So as it stands right now, creatures have elevated elemental TDs to make up for the bonus provided to elemental casters in 425. There is no difference in creature TD when it comes to warding against 415 or 519.

I would have to get someone like Virilneus in here to explain what I meant by "Hybrid Penalty" Me + Math = No.



And now since Immo is out E-strike is a poor choice to train for, for a wizard.

Yep. Clear as day.



Also don't forget that the sorc DS spell is in the same sphere they train in for CS, the wizard DS spell is not.

Yes, which also means you lose an insane amount of DS and TD with 1 spell being removed. It is my primary source of death, or was. Not such a big deal earlier in life. In OTF and Nelemar it sucks hard.

Aren't 913, and 905 considered DS spells?

[Celephais]

1 CS point in Minor Elemental for training in the rank, and one from 425, yes. I was talking solely about the bonus from 425. My mistake.
No I meant 0.5, you only get half an AS per rank of MnE from 425, I think it's actually 0.25 CS per rank from 425.


Yes, which also means you lose an insane amount of DS and TD with 1 spell being removed. It is my primary source of death, or was. Not such a big deal earlier in life. In OTF and Nelemar it sucks hard.

Aren't 913, and 905 considered DS spells?
913 is the same as 712 in the sense that it's 1 ds per spell rank, and wizards have the same issue if we lose 913 that you have losing 712. The thing is that the 900's circle doesn't provide us with any offensive CS, that's what I'm getting at.

So a wizard needs to decide if he wants to have a great CS (to overcome the fact that elemental TD is higher) in the 500s circle by overtraining it, or if they want to go balanced and get the 100 ranks of Wiz circle in order to be an effective enchanter/good DS from 913/905.

[Fallen]

So a wizard needs to decide if he wants to have a great CS (to overcome the fact that elemental TD is higher) in the 500s circle by overtraining it, or if they want to go balanced and get the 100 ranks of Wiz circle in order to be an effective enchanter/good DS from 913/905.

Does 900's help bolt AS, or just give you access to the bolts?

[Celephais]

Does 900's help bolt AS, or just give you access to the bolts?
Just access. 500's circle improves bolt AS from 513. Offensively you have no choice but to train the 500's circle as a casting wizard.

[crb]

hybrid CS penalty, and I mean real hybrid (aka no empaths).

Starting at rank 33 and going up to 66 (rounding, the actual numbers are different). Sorcerers get less cross-circle CS than all other pure professions. Ie, we're getting 1 CS for every 10 spell ranks, other professions get 1 CS for every 3 spell ranks. After 66 (67 technically) it stops and everyone is moved to the 1 CS every 10 rank model.

So, over approximately 30 levels, the cleric/empath/wizard gets +10 CS from their cross circle training. The sorcerer gains 3. Ergo, all else being equal, we'll cast spells from the same circle at 7 CS less than any other pure profession.

The trade off for this is that we also get the highest training costs of any pure profession (we literally don't have a single skill that is cheaper for us to train in than another pure (unless you count sorcery lores, which don't count). Empaths got first aid and pt, clerics got every physical skill, wizards got AS, MIU, SA. We have nada, zip zero zilch (can't wait to see what savants get). You can't make this imbalance up). But of course, we have superpower attack spells like boneshatter? Oh shit... fuck I'm getting my characters confused. We don't got that... hrmm... what do we got... oh wait... a guru who is active and has been so for the last 6 years. SHIT, damnit, I'm remembering wrong again.... hmmm... oh oh oh I know, we get a bitching alchemy recipe to heal an animate that costs more to make than the cost to MAKE an animate in the first place. THAT MUST be the trade off.

...

Honestly, thats just the frustrations straight math gives you. You want to get into the look and feel of the profession, development slights, nerfs, etc, subjective shit, that is a whole other bag of worms. The pure objective number crunching shit is pretty egregious.

[crb]

Just access. 500's circle improves bolt AS from 513. Offensively you have no choice but to train the 500's circle as a casting wizard.
imo wizards have the best spell circle balance whereby the optimum route is often equal training in all three.

sorcerers dont' do that cause the minor circles aren't nearly as beneficial to us, penalty and all. Clerics don't because the way they designed the 200s they don't need to overtrain them (cop out, but thats what GM love gets you). Ditto empaths of course.

[Durgrimst]

XXXXXXXX (at level 24), your base skill bonuses, ranks and goals are:
Skill Name | Actual Actual
| Bonus Ranks Goals In-Game Time to Goal
Shield Use.........................| 102 24 24
Physical Fitness...................| 102 24 24
Harness Power......................| 132 36 36
Perception.........................| 58 12 12
Climbing...........................| 50 10 10
Swimming...........................| 10 2 2

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 24 24

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 24 24

Spell Lists
Sorcerer...........................| 24 24

It looks crazy, it kind of is, but I built him when I used to do some hunting with Finis and based it off of one of his characters builds. Works pretty well for me on the RARE occasion that I play him.

[Stunseed]

hybrid CS penalty, and I mean real hybrid (aka no empaths).

Starting at rank 33 and going up to 66 (rounding, the actual numbers are different). Sorcerers get less cross-circle CS than all other pure professions. Ie, we're getting 1 CS for every 10 spell ranks, other professions get 1 CS for every 3 spell ranks. After 66 (67 technically) it stops and everyone is moved to the 1 CS every 10 rank model.

So, over approximately 30 levels, the cleric/empath/wizard gets +10 CS from their cross circle training. The sorcerer gains 3. Ergo, all else being equal, we'll cast spells from the same circle at 7 CS less than any other pure profession.

The trade off for this is that we also get the highest training costs of any pure profession (we literally don't have a single skill that is cheaper for us to train in than another pure (unless you count sorcery lores, which don't count). Empaths got first aid and pt, clerics got every physical skill, wizards got AS, MIU, SA. We have nada, zip zero zilch (can't wait to see what savants get). You can't make this imbalance up). But of course, we have superpower attack spells like boneshatter? Oh shit... fuck I'm getting my characters confused. We don't got that... hrmm... what do we got... oh wait... a guru who is active and has been so for the last 6 years. SHIT, damnit, I'm remembering wrong again.... hmmm... oh oh oh I know, we get a bitching alchemy recipe to heal an animate that costs more to make than the cost to MAKE an animate in the first place. THAT MUST be the trade off.

...

Honestly, thats just the frustrations straight math gives you. You want to get into the look and feel of the profession, development slights, nerfs, etc, subjective shit, that is a whole other bag of worms. The pure objective number crunching shit is pretty egregious.


Hey, would you mind turning the record over for a little bit? I want to listen to Huey Lewis and the News just one time. That'd be awesome, thanks.

[Fallen]

XXXXXXXX (at level 24), your base skill bonuses, ranks and goals are:
Skill Name | Actual Actual
| Bonus Ranks Goals In-Game Time to Goal
Shield Use.........................| 102 24 24
Physical Fitness...................| 102 24 24
Harness Power......................| 132 36 36
Perception.........................| 58 12 12
Climbing...........................| 50 10 10
Swimming...........................| 10 2 2

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 24 24

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 24 24

Spell Lists
Sorcerer...........................| 24 24

It looks crazy, it kind of is, but I built him when I used to do some hunting with Finis and based it off of one of his characters builds. Works pretty well for me on the RARE occasion that I play him.

I'm honestly not seeing the advantage of such a build at low levels. It isn't like you're throwing around 415's on a hunt, and I certainly don't see the rush to get the 100's circle. At higher levels, sure, it means your 400's CS spells are working, but at lower levels..Just not understanding why you would rock this build. If I am going to make the sacrifices to Triple I would atleast want +20 in my own circle.

The earliest I would bother with a near 1x/1x/1x build would be level 40. I would do something like:

40 Minor Elemental
60 Sorcerer
20 Minor Spiritual

From there you could just go +1 to all three circles per level and be set in terms of CS based use in all three circles. That way you don't sacrifice any DS/TD loss from the Minor Spiritual circle WHILE maintaining an awesome Sorcerer CS and viable Elemental CS.

[Maerit]

Hrmm, I dunno. I think the extra spells at low levels are a massive boost. I did 2.7x until level 30, then I started to push it back to 2.5x by level 40. The major benefit is the higher DS from 430 and 120, combined with the utility of 130 and 125 (for boxes) making a 2.5-3x Sorc reliant on no outside spells, and you have 425 to prevent warding or reliance on quartz orbs. At low levels, this really works well. Once you pass level 40 though, there's no true reason to continue spending all your TPs on spells, and you can start diversifying a bit more into areas like lores and FA/Perception or even survival.

At level 43, I currently have:

43 Sorcerer Ranks
30 Minor Spiritual
31 Minor Elemental

From here on I just 1x sorcerer and 1x ME.

I'm also a pure casting sorc on this character with 1x in demon lore (only benefit to this is using 718 and 740 from my experience). I dropped all my necro lore because I never use the necro oriented spells (animate dead sucks), but I use 718 occasionally, and I love being able to transport bodies and group members with 740. He also infuses scrolls really well with just 2x AS and 1x MIU.

That would be my main problem with the previous build. It's lacking the ability to use our prime utility, scroll infusion. Yeah, it can be a pain in the ass to manage the runestones, but with rummage and backroom access to get smooth stones, it really isn't that hard, and the ability to supply myself and my other characters with high quality infused scrolls that can be recharged constantly is priceless.

[Asha]

717 put squares away better than 415 or 409.
Just throwing that out there since Fallen said we lack a square twatting spell.

[Sean of the Thread]

One year I hunted a SHIT TON with fire as a sorc.

and 717 does pwn squares in the FACE (literally).

[Celephais]

Hey, would you mind turning the record over for a little bit? I want to listen to Huey Lewis and the News just one time. That'd be awesome, thanks.
http://www.mannythemovieguy.com/images/americanpsycho2.jpg