So I got Baker Acted (Florida law thingy)

[Sean of the Thread]

For no fucking reason and it was hell.

Was cooking for the woman who let's me stay at her home some steak dinner the other night and I got floored by severe chest pains, numbness and could not breath for shit so she took me to the ER several blocks away.

They slap me on an EKG and then take a shit load of blood which actually was spurting out all over... say everything is fine but your blood pressure is 180/130. They give me some meds to bring it down and say they're keeping me there until it chills.

Next comes a sawbones who asked me if I've used cocaine. I'm like hell no dumbass I don't do drugs. Then they ask what stress factors could be contributing to my BP being so high and what they called an anxiety attack.

So I told them my recent history of SO and losing my girls, house, truck, money, job etc etc.

Next thing you know I'm being escorted up to a SHITHOLE of a facility on the 4th floor strip searched prison style and having to deal with a bunch of real nut cases in a high security nut holding facility at the hospital.

They said it was just for the night and it was because I was at a ?level 10 risk of suicide? wtf???? SERIOUSLY I JUST RUSHED TO THE HOSPITAL WITH SEVERE CHEST PAINS IN FEAR OF ANOTHER HEART ATTACK FOR YOU TO SAVE MY LIFE. I DON'T WANT TO DIE.

Tough shit so I'm stuck there in this prison with raving lunatics etc so I'm like I'll just keep my composure and make it through the night and be gone in the morning. Picked a 1970's fold out recliner up against the wall a few empty beds to either side so I could keep my back to the wall and protect myself and stayed up all night.

So in the morning I'm like okay ready to go! They were like uhm no you're being transferred via paddy wagon style van to a mental facility.... I'm like the fuck I am (in my head) but was diplomatic as possible about this with no results.

So they transfer me to the nuthouse via lock and key and I await my turn with the psych and doctor where they decide to admit me or not. I arrived at like 7am and the doc didn't show up until 3:30 pm while we sat in a hot locked room with cat fancy magazines and vinyl couches.

Anyways they laughed at my shit and got me the fuck out of there asap.

My problem with this is so much power is availble when it comes to the Baker Act. You can have someone locked up at least 3 days and likely much much longer in a mental facility on a whim.

I'm not sure what other states have a similar law but it's bullshit here for sure in my case. I'm positive that it's good law in most cases but there needs to be checks and balances somewhere along the line. What a waste of nearly 48 hours in shit ass conditions. Oh and I never got fed.

Anyways it was fucking hell and involuntary and sucked ass the whole ride through.

http://www.psychlaws.org/PressRoom/faqonbakeract.htm

[BriarFox]

That's ... pretty ridiculous.

[Proxy]

wow, just wow. Sometimes I wonder if my now hard-coded disposition twards the world and the human race is sane and rational. Then something like this comes along and I no longer have those reservations.

[Danical]

California Equivalent:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5150_(Involuntary_psychiatric_hold)

[Joe]

Always thought there were too many loopholes in that, even when it first came out.

Sorry you got thrashed.

[ElvenFury]

File a lawsuit for infringement on your fourth amendment rights.

[Celephais]

your life is hilarious. Thank you for keeping us all up to date on it.

[Jahira]

Seriously, I think fucked up shit happens to people every once and awhile and it is a fluke type thing......

You just seem to get it all the time....bad luck

[Methais]

File a lawsuit for infringement on your fourth amendment rights.

And put this story in your book.

[radamanthys]

It's basically illegal to even want to kill yourself in this country.

[Sean of the Thread]

I wish I found that hilarious it was shit! haha can laugh about it now however.

And it's a law I don't think the 4th amendment would apply?? Maybe malpractice however.

I should talk to a civil rights attorney perhaps.

[Methais]

It's basically illegal to even want to kill yourself in this country.

Can Baker law be used on emo kids?

[diethx]

Am I the only one that finds it odd that they'd lock him up in the loony bin for having rough luck lately? If they did that to everyone who had shit luck, there'd be no country music (hey that's not a bad idea...)

Seriously though... unless you were exhibiting signs of wanting to hurt yourself or someone else, why the fuck would they waste their time and money to do this? I have a feeling you're leaving some shit out.

[Danical]

I wish I found that hilarious it was shit! haha can laugh about it now however.

And it's a law I don't think the 4th amendment would apply?? Maybe malpractice however.

I should talk to a civil rights attorney perhaps.

See my post about the 5150.

Unfortunately in CA, it's relatively easy for someone in a health care or policing industry to put you into a 5150 (72 hour involuntary psych ward / suicide watch lockdown).

[Jayvn]

You should have told the shrink about gemstone... The cool thing about being baker acted... you can beat the shit out of the cops 'arresting' you and the law can't do anything about it.. happened to my girlfriend back in high school..her mom called saying she was suicidal..which she was a typical 15 year old girl that wore black and listned to manson etc etc.. the cops showed and she fucked one of them up nicely..

[radamanthys]

Can Baker law be used on emo kids?

Dunno. A well placed bike lock would work better anyway.

[radamanthys]

I had one of my ex girlfriends done up under a similar circumstance.

Best breakup ever.

[Methais]

You should have told the shrink about gemstone... The cool thing about being baker acted... you can beat the shit out of the cops 'arresting' you and the law can't do anything about it.. happened to my girlfriend back in high school..her mom called saying she was suicidal..which she was a typical 15 year old girl that wore black and listned to manson etc etc.. the cops showed and she fucked one of them up nicely..

That would be worth the 72 hours. Where do I sign up?

[Proxy]

I wish I found that hilarious it was shit! haha can laugh about it now however.

And it's a law I don't think the 4th amendment would apply?? Maybe malpractice however.

I should talk to a civil rights attorney perhaps.

As I see it, you can try to push that the law violated/operates in violation to your/others constitutional rights, then go after restitution from the state for the experience. Or you can go after a malpractice suit siting a gross miss diagnosis(incompetence) of the attending physician that initiated the lock down. Or maybe even both. But its something I personally wouldn't take laying down. I'd be going for blood & maybe a small chunk of someones skull as a souvenir.

[Sean of the Thread]

Seriously though... unless you were exhibiting signs of wanting to hurt yourself or someone else, why the fuck would they waste their time and money to do this? I have a feeling you're leaving some shit out.



I've left nothing out.

In my honest opinion considering they transferred two of us who coincidentally did not have insurance and were not insane and left all the raving screaming breaking the phone swearing and talking about their soul being written on a single atom in their brain that is a portal to another dimension there... It's a money fucking thing.

Otherwise I have no explanation and this woman was there to witness the events so don't know what to tell you.

I had maybe 4 drinks the day before at the concert where I mostly slept because they mostly sucked and it was hot as hell out in the sun. (and the grass was comfy) But other than that I was sober as well.

They asked if I was suicidal or homicidal and I and made it very clear I was not. I even hung out with 4 nurses flirty style and was fun as hell when they were getting ready to discharge me prior the sudden sneak attack baker act.

Oh I did leave something out. I asked the girls if I decided to just walk out instead of wheel chaired out in my gown butt ass nekked what would happen and they said you'd have 3 pretty women chasing you down the road. The 4th was a lesbian and said no offense lolz.

[Guarrin]

Weird. I'm in FL (Orlando), and went to the ER for high blood pressure last week (190/110!), and was asked the same questions.

I gave a similar response to the 'stress' question, I was working way too fucking much, in addition to all the personal shit and didn't have any problems with treatment. Just seems odd that they'd do that.

Crazy shit. Did they put you on any BP meds?

[Methais]

I asked the girls if I decided to just walk out instead of wheel chaired out in my gown but nekked what would happen and they said you'd have 3 pretty women chasing you down the road. The 4th was a lesbian and said no offense lolz.

And you didn't get up and start walking right then, before the sneak attack? WHY?!!?!?

You could always go back and tell the nurses about what a horrible experience you had, and how they were the only good memory you had of the whole thing, bring em out for drinks, lay pipe x3, etc.

[Guarrin]

In my honest opinion considering they transferred two of us who coincidentally did not have insurance and were not insane

Ding ding ding. You are probably right.

[Sean of the Thread]

Weird. I'm in FL (Orlando), and went to the ER for high blood pressure last week (190/110!), and was asked the same questions.

I gave a similar response to the 'stress' question, I was working way too fucking much, in addition to all the personal shit and didn't have any problems with treatment. Just seems odd that they'd do that.

Crazy shit. Did they put you on any BP meds?


Pretty much the same shit that happened to me minus the bullshit baker act.

They treated the BP with meds in the ER but I've already got scripts for Lopressor/metoprolol, Librium and Clonidine for my heart/BP but I haven't filled the scripts in a month (well since 4/7/09) due to lack of resources.

[Sean of the Thread]

And you didn't get up and start walking right then, before the sneak attack? WHY?!!?!?




Lol ironically I called my father and asked him if I should bail to the unguarded door 20 yards to my right once I found out about the baker act bullshit.

That's when I asked them what would happen if I bolted in my gown. I told them they'd be famous at least and that shit would be all over the news/web. Told them to get their camera phones ready.

*then the armed security guards showed up.

[Some Rogue]

Exclusive pictures of Sean2 from last night...

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a64/lrenzo2/OneCheswickMcmurphyChief.jpg

[Sean of the Thread]

Honestly as bad as that place was in that movie these places were worse...

But I'd still be Jack if I could transfer my atom through dimensions to replace his soul given the chance.

[Methais]

*then the armed security guards showed up.

Doing it then could have made the security guards hesitate long enough for you to get away.

Unless they were gay.

Which makes me wonder....should a gay man have to be frisked by a woman?

[Sean of the Thread]

Which makes me wonder....should a gay man have to be frisked by a woman?

Oh that's a good question...

One chick was detained forever because they couldn't find a female to do a body check... hrmmmmmmm.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Am I the only one that finds it odd that they'd lock him up in the loony bin for having rough luck lately? If they did that to everyone who had shit luck, there'd be no country music (hey that's not a bad idea...)

Seriously though... unless you were exhibiting signs of wanting to hurt yourself or someone else, why the fuck would they waste their time and money to do this? I have a feeling you're leaving some shit out.

Meh, I sort of get the feeling of that too.

Even if you don't think you said or did anything that could have warranted their reaction, it's entirely possible that you did. The alcohol that likely showed up in your blood probably had something to do with that, too. Even if you don't behave drunk they can still tell from the blood test if you've drank recently.

After an observation stay, they legally can't let you go until you've been cleared by a shrink to not be a danger to yourself or others.. hence being taken to another facility in order to see an actual doctor.

Really there's no benefit to locking everyone who comes through the door with high BP or an anxiety attack and locking them up.. not just for their own personal cost and bother, but the risk of being sued if they do so wrongly.

This also makes me suspect you, Sean:


In my honest opinion considering they transferred two of us who coincidentally did not have insurance and were not insane and left all the raving screaming breaking the phone swearing and talking about their soul being written on a single atom in their brain that is a portal to another dimension there... It's a money fucking thing.

Perhaps people who don't know better may not realize it, but psych patients are not all tossed in together. A lot of times they're sorted into one of two different units (Unit 1 and Unit 2). Unit 1 is typically people who are non-combative, there by choice, etc-- and dealing with non-psychotic problems (depression, anxiety, addiction, etc). Otherwise "normal" people who are having trouble dealing with something.. not people who would be muttering to themselves or raving and screaming. Unit 2 would be the people you've described.. deeply troubled, delusional, psychotic individuals. The reason being for the split is that the environment for each group needs to be drastically different... not to mention, how fucking dumb would doctors have to be to think it's awesome to put someone who has, say, PTSD in with someone who randomly starts screaming at nearby people that they're going to die tomorrow.

The default observation unit unless clear signs of said delusion and psychosis (or intoxication) is Unit 1. So, if this story is indeed true, you were behaving quite intoxicated (and your BAL backed this up), or else you gave the impression of being delusional and psychotic.

I like you Sean but this reeks of shens.

[Clove]

*then the armed security guards showed up.So what? They can't lock you up for being a suicide risk AND shoot you to death.

Personally I don't think any effort should be made to keep people who don't want to be here. Waste of resources. Free up parking spaces.

[Sean of the Thread]

my BAL was 0%. The last drinks I had were between 11am and 12:30 the morning prior (pre gaming the concert) and this event took place at 5:30 pm'ish the follow day.

Only thing that showed up in my blood was benzo's and opiates both of which I'm prescribed but was taking diluted amounts of (1x a day of the benzo rather than 3-4) to stretch them.

They first suggested the anxiety attack was due to benzo withdrawal.

Oh I've since called the hospital it was a P.A. that made the assessment there was no shrink on the premises.

I did say I was depressed as one of the factors and the reasons why. But for fucks sake I came to the ER because I thought I was having a heart attack and wanted to be saved not because I'm suifuckingcidal.

I'm not leaving shit out. I don't have money for scripts as it is let alone alcohol. Made it easy to quit smoking however.

Anyways it's my opinion there needs to be some checks and balances with this as well as the ability for anyone to call the Dept of children and families with a bogus child abuse call anonymously causing an entire family a year of hell for no reason just because they were pissed at you for your dog shitting on their lawn or something.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

okayy.

[Sean of the Thread]

Hehe sorry Nik I'm still just a lil miffed over the shit and how it went down.

[Methais]

Meh, I sort of get the feeling of that too.

Even if you don't think you said or did anything that could have warranted their reaction, it's entirely possible that you did. The alcohol that likely showed up in your blood probably had something to do with that, too. Even if you don't behave drunk they can still tell from the blood test if you've drank recently.

After an observation stay, they legally can't let you go until you've been cleared by a shrink to not be a danger to yourself or others.. hence being taken to another facility in order to see an actual doctor.

Really there's no benefit to locking everyone who comes through the door with high BP or an anxiety attack and locking them up.. not just for their own personal cost and bother, but the risk of being sued if they do so wrongly.

This also makes me suspect you, Sean:



Perhaps people who don't know better may not realize it, but psych patients are not all tossed in together. A lot of times they're sorted into one of two different units (Unit 1 and Unit 2). Unit 1 is typically people who are non-combative, there by choice, etc-- and dealing with non-psychotic problems (depression, anxiety, addiction, etc). Otherwise "normal" people who are having trouble dealing with something.. not people who would be muttering to themselves or raving and screaming. Unit 2 would be the people you've described.. deeply troubled, delusional, psychotic individuals. The reason being for the split is that the environment for each group needs to be drastically different... not to mention, how fucking dumb would doctors have to be to think it's awesome to put someone who has, say, PTSD in with someone who randomly starts screaming at nearby people that they're going to die tomorrow.

The default observation unit unless clear signs of said delusion and psychosis (or intoxication) is Unit 1. So, if this story is indeed true, you were behaving quite intoxicated (and your BAL backed this up), or else you gave the impression of being delusional and psychotic.

I like you Sean but this reeks of shens.


Why would someone who wanted to die go to the hospital because they thought they were having a heart attack though?

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Why would someone who wanted to die go to the hospital because they thought they were having a heart attack though?

You don't have to be outright suicidal to still be considered a clear danger to yourself. If you're unbalanced mentally for whatever reason (intoxication, medical condition, bad or no meds) and shows other signs (i.e. depression) that are a dangerous combination, then they can't legally let you go.

[Proxy]

I would see the point if someone who slit their wrists or swallowed a bottle full of pills showed up at an ER. But showing up because they have chest pains and are afraid of having a heart attack getting throwing in in a rubber room makes zero sense. Likely as said, they did it for some kind of $ advantage on their book keeping end. And if that was the case I would do everything in my power to shove a razor wire wrapped cactus up their collective asses for doing it at my expense. Even with him being cleared, it will likely still show up on his medical history as being temporarily committed due to suspect mental health.

So find a good sympathetic Jewish lawyer and dig till you find gold damn it!!!!

[Clove]

Why would someone who wanted to die go to the hospital because they thought they were having a heart attack though?Inorite! That would be crazy!

[Clove]

I would see the point if someone who slit their wrists or swallowed a bottle full of pills showed up at an ER. But showing up because they have chest pains and are afraid of having a heart attack getting throwing in in a rubber room makes zero sense. Likely as said, they did it for some kind of $ advantage on their book keeping end.So... they save themselves bookkeeping, by spending more money and admitting him overnight?

Honestly, I'm really suspicious. In CT at least a single DOCTOR can't admit you for evaluation (involuntarily) let alone a PA.

[thefarmer]

Hire some sleazy lawyer, sue and make lots of money.

[Proxy]

So... they save themselves bookkeeping, by spending more money and admitting him overnight?

Honestly, I'm really suspicious. In CT at least a single DOCTOR can't admit you for evaluation (involuntarily) let alone a PA.

I could be wrong but if they are a subsidized outfit they would be getting paid by the state to "observe" him. Free cash, similar to how some prisons work.

[Sean of the Thread]

So... they save themselves bookkeeping, by spending more money and admitting him overnight?

Honestly, I'm really suspicious. In CT at least a single DOCTOR can't admit you for evaluation (involuntarily) let alone a PA.


It was the P.A. and the DR (who I spent about 2 minutes with going over my ekg results) that signed off on it.

Doesn't spending more money that you know won't be paid back due to no insurance mean a write off for a for profit hospital? I dunno much about that shit to be honest.

I do know the mental institution they sent me to was completely free to me but I'm sure they're getting money from the govt for every attendee.

Also the woman that got transferred over with me (we actually hung out to stay away from the real fucking loons at the hospital and watch each other's back) got transferred over 10 minutes after me... In an ambulance because there were no available transport vans.

Why wouldn't she just ride with me in the van over? We all rode out in the same vans to our residence when discharged in less than a minute each... also free to us but charged to someone.

Shit don't add up to me.

[diethx]

The whole story still sounds like bullshit to me. It holds about as much water as Sean2's claims that he doesn't drink anymore except for a beer here and there.

[Bhuryn]

So... they save themselves bookkeeping, by spending more money and admitting him overnight?

Honestly, I'm really suspicious. In CT at least a single DOCTOR can't admit you for evaluation (involuntarily) let alone a PA.

Under the Baker act a judge, law enforcement, a physician or a mental health professional can hold someone for involuntary examination. Generally speaking there needs to be clear evidence of both a mental health issue and the intent to harm yourself, others or serious self-neglect.

I believe 5150's in california and the majority of other states can only be inacted by a law enforcement officer or a judge.

Habaes Corpus does protect you from involintary mental health holds, so if it had extended beyond the initial 72 hour hold to an involintary 14 day hold you could have (hopefully) gotten released that way.

You should request a copy of your medical records to see what they put down as justification. Just a note on this too, clearly state you can't afford them and typically you'll get them for free.

[Sean of the Thread]

I already requested to see the form from the people at the mental facility and he was cool enough to show me.

It said simply "suicide auditory" *(the guy at the facility told me that was to cover their ass whatever that means) which is complete bullshit. When asked several times if I had any wish to harm myself or anyone else I said NO I'm all good.

And diethx thanks for your support :) I really do rarely drink anymore... however that doesn't mean I don't want a drink. I'm not going to lie I've had an occasional binge. However I've seriously been just drinking socially * and haven't been completely train wrecked since my birthday week back in March.

And yes I told them at the mental facility that I do drink alone when they asked. Why that is considered a negative I dunno. I loved getting home from work and cracking a beer when there was no kids or SO around and watching sportscenter or a dvr'd show.

Or even going to the pub and watching a game with a pitcher of beer and a newspaper and nobody else. I don't see what's wrong with that in our society but hey this is AMERICA!

We do what the fuck we want anyways right?


Pfft drinking alone. What a joke of a measure of someone's capacity.

[Bhuryn]

They probably flagged it as self-neglect =P

[Ignot]

I find it hard to believe this is the first time you have been Baker acted.:drool:

[Kyra231]

Perhaps people who don't know better may not realize it, but psych patients are not all tossed in together. A lot of times they're sorted into one of two different units (Unit 1 and Unit 2). Unit 1 is typically people who are non-combative, there by choice, etc-- and dealing with non-psychotic problems (depression, anxiety, addiction, etc). Otherwise "normal" people who are having trouble dealing with something.. not people who would be muttering to themselves or raving and screaming. Unit 2 would be the people you've described.. deeply troubled, delusional, psychotic individuals. The reason being for the split is that the environment for each group needs to be drastically different... not to mention, how fucking dumb would doctors have to be to think it's awesome to put someone who has, say, PTSD in with someone who randomly starts screaming at nearby people that they're going to die tomorrow.


The bolded part of your statement is not correct when you're applying it to all hospitals. Fwiw you could go check the 1st floor of Borgess Hospital in Kalamazoo or it's sister hospital Bronson(same town).

They have(had possibly it has been a year since I talked to anyone that worked there) 3 units. Geriatric, pediatric & general. That's it. Nothing like seeing some poor fucker who made the mistake of saying 'I'd rather die than be in jail' when he was getting booked get locked up with the complete basket cases.

Past that incorrect statement idk & don't really give a shit what his circumstances were/are for getting hauled off.

[diethx]

And diethx thanks for your support :)

Sorry dude but no one's life is as hectic as you claim yours is. Either you're a pathological liar or you bring this shit on yourself by being a raging alcoholic/self-medicator or whatever. I simply don't believe these stories anymore.

And i'll support you when you quit acting like a drunken douchebag and make the effort to be a responsible father. You whine and whine about your wife taking your kids and how miserable your life is but you don't seem to have made any effort to change your life, especially so you can get them back. Grow the fuck up man.

[ViridianAsp]

I swear to god Sean it's like the bad luck fairy just follows you around. I've never ever, ever had this kind of luck.

Well, the good news is, you got out. The second, I would sue the state, hospital and anyone else. You obviously weren't in danger of committing suicide...Don't you have to actually give them an admission of, "Yes, I seriously want to kill myself.", for them to do anything? I believe that is how it is here in California, you have to admit it.

[Clove]

Doesn't spending more money that you know won't be paid back due to no insurance mean a write off for a for profit hospital? I dunno much about that shit to be honest.Yes. And this is not desireable. Writing off a receiveable doesn't make your expenses disappear.

[Clove]

From the Baker Act FAQ
What are the criteria for involuntary psychiatric exams in Florida?

Florida law permits a mental health professional, law enforcement officer, or judge who issues an ex parte order to initiate an involuntary examination only when a person meets the following criteria:

[I]f there is reason to believe that he or she is mentally ill and because of his or her mental illness:

(a) 1. The person has refused voluntary examination after conscientious explanation and (a) disclosure of the purpose of the examination; or

(a) 2. The person is unable to determine for himself or herself whether the examination is (a) necessary; and

(b) 1. Without care or treatment, the person is likely to suffer from neglect or refuse to care for himself or herself; such neglect or refusal poses a real and present threat of substantial harm to his or her well-being; and it is not apparent that such harm may be avoided through the help of willing family members or friends or the provision of other services; or

(a) 2. There is a substantial likelihood that without care or treatment the person will cause serious bodily harm to himself or herself or others in the near future, as evidenced by recent behavior.So the PA and Doctor suspected Sean was mentally ill and a threat to himself or unable to care for himself and/or they asked him to submit to a voluntary evaluation. I don't know, I just don't see this happening unless Sean was seriously fucked up.

[LMingrone]

I've had two family members, that were in no way suicidal or crazy, put on mandatory seventy-two hour hold in the ward. This was in CT. My sociopath father couldn't let my mother or sister go when they split up. He got them both put in there. So it does happen sometimes. And I'd say 25% of doctors I've dealt with are idiots.

[Proxy]

Sean, what is the name of this hospital? I wana dig...

Edit, after reading that clip Clove, I have zero doubt that the First time that act gets challenged in US Supreme Court it will be thrown out.

[LMingrone]

Look up Yale New Haven Hospital. They own massive amounts of property from putting people through similar situations. Diagnose people with things that require EXPENSIVE tests. Then when they can't pay, Yale puts liens on their property. They tried that shit on me...good thing I didn't just fall for it like many others.

[Clove]

Look up Yale New Haven Hospital. They own massive amounts of property from putting people through similar situations. Diagnose people with things that require EXPENSIVE tests. Then when they can't pay, Yale puts liens on their property. They tried that shit on me...good thing I didn't just fall for it like many others.That's exactly the kind of talk that gets you put in the observation...

[Warriorbird]

Sorry dude but no one's life is as hectic as you claim yours is. Either you're a pathological liar or you bring this shit on yourself by being a raging alcoholic/self-medicator or whatever. I simply don't believe these stories anymore.

And i'll support you when you quit acting like a drunken douchebag and make the effort to be a responsible father. You whine and whine about your wife taking your kids and how miserable your life is but you don't seem to have made any effort to change your life, especially so you can get them back. Grow the fuck up man.

I believe Sean in this present case. I also still believe he's an alcoholic.

...and while some people have nice lives, die thx, don't assume that everybody does.

Sounds like you had a real shitty time of it Sean. Not much recourse though, they probably did it to get you off their hands should you freak out from 'drug withdrawal.'

[diethx]

I believe Sean in this present case. I also still believe he's an alcoholic.

...and while some people have nice lives, die thx, don't assume that everybody does.

Sounds like you had a real shitty time of it Sean. Not much recourse though, they probably did it to get you off their hands should you freak out from 'drug withdrawal.'

I don't assume everyone has nice lives. I don't believe that Sean2 can get arrested and get in bar fights and get harassed by cops and get thrown in a loony bin all by bad luck. Like I said, he's either bullshitting, or he's leaving out the fact that it all happens because he's a raging alcoholic and lets that be known VERY well in public.

[Warriorbird]

:shrugs: Sometimes wretched stuff just happens in order.

My marriage broke up, my mom had a series of heart attacks, the job I loved was totally unreasonable about it, a grandparent died, and my sister went through recovery for a potentially fatal illness all in one six month period.

The therapist told me that she thought I had legitimate reasons to be depressed.

[LMingrone]

^WB

I've been going through a lot of stress recently. Lost my job, having problems with the fiance, trying to take care of my mother who has a broken back, and my sister who is blind. Money wise I'm fine, but I can understand how the sheer stress wears on you.

But, don't judge Sean just because he's had so much bad luck. It happens to all of us at one point. And I've had many similar situations, and I'm a very hard worker. Sometimes shit just happens.

I'm going to buy a Powerball ticket.

[Parkbandit]

Seriously.. how can anyone in the world possibly have this much bad luck?

Either that or your life is so fucking out of control that it's not actually bad luck.. but the roosters coming home to roost.

You need to move out of this state and get your shit together imo.

[diethx]

:shrugs: Sometimes wretched stuff just happens in order.

My marriage broke up, my mom had a series of heart attacks, the job I loved was totally unreasonable about it, a grandparent died, and my sister went through recovery for a potentially fatal illness all in one six month period.

The therapist told me that she thought I had legitimate reasons to be depressed.

Not to say it didn't affect you greatly, but technically, except for the marriage and the job being rough, those things didn't actually happen to you. They happened to your loved ones. Of course you suffered because of them, but it's not the same thing. Not even close to being the same thing as all the shit Sean2 has claimed has happened to him directly over the past 2 years. I do not believe the state of Florida has it in for Sean2, but between all the cop run-ins/harassment and now the hospital and all the other crap, if it's all true, that's how it would have to seem. And I just CANNOT believe that. It's FAR more likely to believe that it's because he drinks like a fish and gets far too drunk in public and it causes him to do stupid shit, which in turn gets him in big trouble.


Either that or your life is so fucking out of control that it's not actually bad luck.. but the roosters coming home to roost.

Basically. Time to grow up and get your shit together and be a responsible adult, if not for yourself then for your kids.

[Cephalopod]

Either that or your life is so fucking out of control that it's not actually bad luck.. but the roosters coming home to roost.

This, x1000. It ain't luck.

[grenthor]

Ding ding ding. You are probably right.

It costs considerably more to go through all the extra Baker Act and psych eval bullshit than it does to monitor someone for another 2 hours and then kick them loose. I can almost guarantee that saving money had nothing to do with it.

[Gan]

your life is hilarious. Thank you for keeping us all up to date on it.

x2

[thefarmer]

http://www.news4jax.com/news/18721400/detail.html


Student, 7, Held On Baker Act After Tantrum
Boy Accused Of Battering School Administrator
POSTED: Sunday, February 15, 2009
LARGO, Fla. -- The parents of a 7-year-old in Largo are outraged their child was taken out of school and hospitalized under a state mental health law.
The boy spent a night at Morton Plant Hospital before being seen by a child psychologist. Under Florida's Baker act, authorities can hospitalize someone involuntarily if they're a serious threat to themselves or others.
Authorities said the boy threw a tantrum so severe in his second-grade class that it had to be evacuated. He allegedly stepped on a teacher's foot, tore up the room and "battered" a school administrator.
The boy's mother, Barbara Smith, said she could have corrected the situation but was not given that opportunity. She said she's now keeping the boy and his 9-year-old sister out of school because they're "scared to death" to return.
Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

[Mabus]

And it's a law I don't think the 4th amendment would apply??
The Constitution trumps laws.

Talk to an attorney. Some will speak to you about a potential case for free. Ask beforehand.

[Sean of the Thread]

I'm not bullshitting but don't give a fuck what you think I share this shit for a vent and entertainment value. I don't really have anyone else to tell around here nowadays.

Wait you're correct. I should be a writer! I can make up all these stories why not get rich off of them?

Whilst I may only share the the drama here I have had an extreme course of bad fucking luck as you call it (which I don't believe in luck). I'll call it the bottom end of the probability scale.

And diethx I've only been cuffed once in my life. I know how to escape bar fights and I never start one.

(that doesn't include all the other fights)

ffs

~sean

[Sean of the Thread]

http://www.news4jax.com/news/18721400/detail.html


Bingo we have a winner.

Same county and same hospital.

Go figure.


Yeah I'm full of shit right?

[diethx]

Bingo we have a winner.

Same county and same hospital.

Go figure.


Yeah I'm full of shit right?

So you threw a tantrum, stomped on your PA's foot, tore up the room, and "battered" a doctor?

Because that article states the little kid acted out so severely that his classroom had to be evacuated. He obviously was a danger to himself and others.

While it may be an exaggeration, if it's not, it sounds like they took a step in the right direction. Any kid that will act out that badly in school has something wrong upstairs. (Although I do NOT agree with the fact that his parents weren't consulted in the decision).

Anyway, you are not proving your case by comparing yourself to this case since you said you didn't act out in any way.

Oh but right, you don't care what I think. :)

[radamanthys]

It costs considerably more to go through all the extra Baker Act and psych eval bullshit than it does to monitor someone for another 2 hours and then kick them loose. I can almost guarantee that saving money had nothing to do with it.

Typically they source to another agency. That keeps their budget low. Nothing the MH agency can do about it. ECMC did it to BPC all the time.


er... erie county medical center/buffalo psych. center. Worked there for 3 years.

[EasternBrand]

Sean, what is the name of this hospital? I wana dig...

Edit, after reading that clip Clove, I have zero doubt that the First time that act gets challenged in US Supreme Court it will be thrown out.

I'm not an expert on civil rights claims, but the federal appellate courts seem pretty unanimous in granting qualified immunity to law enforcement officers and medical professionals in similar section 1983 claims, as long as they had probable cause to believe the person to be a danger to himself or others. Similar statutes have also survived constitutional (fourth amendment-related) challenges in Kentucky, Ohio, and New York.

I can tell you that in the criminal context, Fourth Amendment jurisprudence typically relies on a standard of reasonableness, so that the first question the court asks, once a defendant can show that his Fourth Amendment rights are at stake, is, "Was this search/seizure reasonable?" I assume that the standard is the same in the civil context. When considering state statutes that authorize involuntary hospitalization and require a concomitant finding of dangerousness to oneself or others -- as the Florida statute seems to -- the answer that the courts give to that question is roundly: "Yes, if the official seizing and detaining the person for evaluation has probable cause to believe that the person is dangerous to himself or others."

Of course, that assumes that there was probable cause to make that finding. If there wasn't, well... a lawyer could assess the facts here and suggest a course of action, but in my opinion there is probably nothing unconstitutional about this law on its face. That doesn't mean that the application of the law is constitutional in all circumstances, just that the law itself is not likely problematic.

[Proxy]

I would think that the trick to challenging something like the baker act would be not to say that the act its self is in direct violation of ones rights. But the currently accepted & acted apon understanding of the act. This wouldn't be a push necessarily to have the law burned at the stake but to have the scope of it authority defined. (limited) As well as establishing a restricted list, that is heavily measured, for what would be considered "qualified professionals" who can invoke it. And we all know how much the gov loves to add red tape ;)

In short, a claim that the current implementation of the baker act is unconstitutional. This will not unfortunately prevent the act from being resurrected in one form or another, but will open the doors in some cases to bring sleeze balls who abuse the authority of the act under fire for their actions.

That said, I personally have issues with any law that grants the kind of authority the baker act does while at the same time rulings are handed down that basically say that those that invoke said powers have next to zero accountability for doing so. The authority is not a violation, the lack of accountability is.

[Warriorbird]

Calling something unconstitutional and getting anywhere with it is pretty tough.

[Proxy]

easier to claim the mode is unconsitutional then the means

Edit: And get anywhere with it.

[Celephais]

Seriously.. how can anyone in the world possibly have this much bad luck?
Personally I'm wondering how the collective PC can have this much good luck.

[iJin]

I swear to god Sean it's like the bad luck fairy just follows you around. I've never ever, ever had this kind of luck.

Well, the good news is, you got out. The second, I would sue the state, hospital and anyone else. You obviously weren't in danger of committing suicide...Don't you have to actually give them an admission of, "Yes, I seriously want to kill myself.", for them to do anything? I believe that is how it is here in California, you have to admit it.

Not so sure about this.

A couple of years back my mother went to go see her psychologist (Due to divorce reasons), and all she had to say was that she just wanted to sleep alot. Got her into the Arrowhead Medical Facility in San Bernardino for 72 hours just for that comment. Sure she may of been depressed a bit, but damn don't all people or atleast most go to a psych for depression? Honestly.

[Warriorbird]

easier to claim the mode is unconsitutional then the means

Edit: And get anywhere with it.

Yeah... running through the test on facial discrimination right now. Rather tough... have to prove it discriminates against everybody.

[Warriorbird]

Noteworthy... has to be a physician or 'mental health professional' who invokes it.

[Proxy]

could always run the statistics gambit and I would be willing to bet that a good majority of the people that are subjected to the bite of something like the baker act, nation wide, are in a low tax bracket & are currently experiencing a rather rough run due to economic & domestic stress. But are in other wise perfect mental health. I would think that statistical base(if the findings are what I've lead my self to believe) would be enough to at least start a push against, but that would of course require someone to poll the use of these kinds of laws in various states. But in the end I could result in the repeal/ratification of those laws so, that again, the lack of accountability issue is more reasonably addressed then it currently is.

Then again I'm no lawyer so meh...and this is all theoretical babble on my part in relation to a subject I've gone to great lengths to hire/retain a damn good "interpreter" for, when I actually get tangled up in.