Sword/board ambusher vs Archery?

[BuleGila]

So I'm torn between three choices, ambushing sword/board, archery, or twc. With archery, I have enough training points to also wear mbp, and I enjoy that I can't get disarmed with archery. I had also read that encumbrance doesn't increase RT with archery, but I'm not sure if that's true or not.

With ambushing sword/board, I had to drop my armor trainings down to aug chain. I can just buy a 4x set somewhere, but currently I don't have one. I do have a fgb, but I'm not sure if that's better then chain ((since the fgb has that crit padding)). More importantly, I have a 10x flaring longsword ((not sure which elemental flare)) and a 10x shield. So with that gear, I'm not sure if it'll make up for the loss of mbp.

Or.....there's twc. I've got a 4x crit weighted shortsword ((though I'm not sure of the level of crit)) or a 4x flaring shortsword ((not sure of the type of flares)) to couple with the 10x longsword. But that would still mean chain or fgb, with NO shield. I'm not sure if the loss of ds and protection is worth it.

If you had these options, what would you do? Why?

Thanks again

[Asha]

You can be disarmed with archery.
Also the encumbrance thing is likely to be ''fixed'' in archery changes.

[BuleGila]

Really? I thought only the arrow could since the bow was in the left hand. Even then, I'm not so sure that's a big deal. A 4x bow is much cheaper than a 10x weapon.

[Asha]

It's really true. No e-bows for you when you cap.
Great isn't it.

[BuleGila]

Well, either way, I'm still stuck deciding between the three.

[Warriorbird]

Race is really important for archery.

[BuleGila]

Dark Elf.

[Warriorbird]

You have to consider roundtime as a factor. Strength largely governs it for archery.

[BuleGila]

I'm just curious which of those 3 paths someone would take faced with the gear/race I mentioned.

[Gan]

My human rogue used to be sword/board with mbp and it just got old. When I started hunting OTF I faced opponents with huge differences in CS/TD and the spell burst effect that kept me from stacking up on spells. So I was fine while hiding but when stuck in the open with hard RT - I usually got nailed due to swarming and high critter populations. Add to that a high frequency of disarming meant that I used ebladed weapons and 4x shields (reduction in AS/DS) and left my 10x gear in the locker.

I moved to archery, kept my perception high (benefit to picking), and reduced armor from mbp (80 ranks) to hcp brig (35 ranks) and put the points in spells (I'm up to 410). I use a 5x short bow with 5x arrows (fletching master kind) and stay in the shadows and snipe. I can have some benefit of crowd control with 410 and choose my targets carefully (scouts, initiates, seers, jannisarys). I can successfully move through a room hidden (smastery) without a war griffin pointing me out (which is the most perceptive thing in OTF).

I do get killed from the various fun things in that area (webs, griffin swats/screeches/hearald discs) but can usually make it in and out with a backpack full of boxes (no hinderance except for manuevers) if I dont get too greedy and hunt smart. I also use psinet aliases for firing the bow and gathering my used arrows - which makes for good speed.

If you drop to brig - crit padding is a must, heavy or better in padding level.

*my thoughts.

[BriarFox]

It's really what style you prefer. They're all very viable, though your gear is best for TWC, I think. (You'd want to get enough points to wear the mbp, though.) Gear can be bought and sold, though, so go with what you want.

Personally, I think TWC/OHE/MOC is the most fun for a rogue.

[BriarFox]

Oh, encumbrance does affect aiming for archery, just not RT.

[Swami71]

TWC is my vote. Main-gauche left and longsword right. Ranged is good if you have the patience for making/gathering arrows.

[SolitareConfinement]

Oh, encumbrance does affect aiming for archery, just not RT.

hmm still learning something new everyday. i was unaware of that one

i've done TWC, sword/board, and now im onto archery. TWC was the most "fun" however it was also the most i died due to bolt DS and general lack of DS that comes with TWC...i'd say most deadly would definitely be archery. with a haste amulet the riding amount of hiding you would wreck a room full of crap almost as fast as a good AOE. I also have a fire alias for my archery that grabs an arrow and fires it. so with a haste amulet in a grimswarm camp. oh dear god the pwnage is just beautiful (until you find a ranger with WOF up and that nasty ranged 540+ DS)

P.S. best investment i've ever made was going to a 6x bow. fuck the fletching just get a 6x bow buy some arrows and e-blade them. each bundle can have 999 charges of eblade so if you split your bundles up right you can buy 2 arrow bundles (50 arrows) break the bundles down right quick to what ever the math works out to be (depending on train of caster) eblade the smaller bundles, and bundle em all up for 50 arrows with 999 shots of eblade...100x faster than fletching anyday and easier too i might add...AND probably cheaper

NOTE: that last little bit obviously only works when an attuned character is casting eblade

[Gan]

Since 6x bows are not very common, I'd rather run the risk of losing a 4x or a 5x bow in OTF. 4x especially.

And its cool having your own signature arrows. You'd be suprised how many people walk up to you and return an arrow to you that you lost, and know it belonged to you from seeing you with those specific kinds.

[BuleGila]

Yeah, TWC sounds nice, but it just doesn't seem too viable because I'm not sure how I'd be able to fit disarming/lockpicking/perception. I don't want to give those up. TWC + OHE + MOC = most my training points. And that's after dropping armor down to brig.

Sword/board may get old, but for most areas, I still think it's quite effective and offers a higher DS. I'm just not sure if the higher DS is worth the drop of protection from plate to brig or aug chain.

As for OTF, I guess I could always fixskill back into archery, but right now I'm only at level 50. Having gear disarmed is lame, and that's about the main thing keeping me with archery. Even if I do get the bow disarmed, at 4x it's not such a big deal. If were to do the same with ohe ambushing ((using 4x gear)) then it just seems more beneficial to stay with archery since I could remain in mbp. I was only interested in sword/board if I could use my 10x gear, not 4x.

[DaCapn]

P.S. best investment i've ever made was going to a 6x bow. fuck the fletching just get a 6x bow buy some arrows and e-blade them. each bundle can have 999 charges of eblade so if you split your bundles up right you can buy 2 arrow bundles (50 arrows) break the bundles down right quick to what ever the math works out to be (depending on train of caster) eblade the smaller bundles, and bundle em all up for 50 arrows with 999 shots of eblade...100x faster than fletching anyday and easier too i might add...AND probably cheaper

I ditched eblading arrows for fletching. You get 5 exp per arrow you fletch after you master and 125k exp from mastering fletching. Of course, on your weekly gift you do even better. I got 264k exp from mastering fletching that way. There's tons of scripts available already so it's not at all difficult to do the fletching. Even if you plan to go to 414, you have a lot to gain in the short term by dropping 411 (I got armor use up to a second rank, took up evade mastery, and got my hiding closer to 3x). If you really want the flares from 411 (though I think they show up less than 10% of the time), you can get a wand loading bow. I use one and load it up if I'm dealing with heavier armored creatures.

Since we're talking about ranged, droit posted a while back about warrior sheaths as they apply to archers. Bundles of 24 arrows in a warrior sheath reduces the weight to 0.5 lbs per bundle (instead of 2.5) for optimal weight reduction.

In my opinion, BuleGila seems better set up for a sword/board build. I wasn't too crazy about TWC. The crowd control was poor and the defense wasn't too good. I do much better with THW/410 than I did with TWC (the certainty of a kill is pretty high in either case, but the latter has better crowd control and defense). I think I like Ranged/410 the best though, especially for a dexterous race with no STR penalty.

Also, HCP brig isn't up to par with aug chain in terms of crit reduction, I don't think. Personally, I'm feeling the lighter armor these days. I just got some FGB and it's pretty good with evade mastery. In MBP I could get pretty deep into the 200's with endrolls and barely get nicked, but I let seekers boil me about 3 times in the FGB just to try it out and I was still in decent shape. I think a 190 endroll in FGB got me a minor and 24 points or something?

[droit]

As a ranger, I've been sword & board ambush for most of my career but I've recently changed over to ranged. I'm not sure what level your character is, but I'd say throughout the majority of the game, archery will probably be the most efficient/deadly (assuming 2x perception and 2x ambush). However, I found ambushing to be more fun and I'll probably switch back to OHE, pending the release of the 110th level rift area and seeing how they handle hiding and ranged DS, etc. I'd also say that I have been slightly underwhelmed regarding archery in warcamps and versus plate in general; I was much more confident in my ability to one-shot things when ambushing.

Regarding your arsenal, I think both longswords and shortswords make poor ambushing weapons. The reason is that both of those weapons do all three types of damage (slash, puncture, crush), each of which have different fatal crit thresholds for different body locations (eyes, head/neck), which adds another level of randomness to the hit resolution. It's much better to ambush with a weapon that does only 1 or 2 types of damage.

For example, the fatal crit ranks for a hit to the head are: crush 5, slash 6, puncture 7. If you achieve a rank 6 wound on an ambush to the head (after randomization) with a longsword, you still only have about a 66% chance of it being fatal because of that puncture threshold. If you use a handaxe that does only crush and slash damage, that rank 6 is an automatic kill.

In conclusion, archery is quite powerful against everything but plate. OHE is a solid build (with good defense), but if you do it, I'd trade someone for a different weapon. I think what it really comes down to is which style fits your character best.

[BuleGila]

Well, thanks everyone for the input. It seems archery is the most efficient, since the other two have serious drawbacks I'd rather avoid. I guess I was just trying to find an excuse to change with the fixskills coming up. I do really like my 10x sword and shield though....the description is nice and it's somewhat different compared to all the other rogue archers out there, but I'm not trying to make hunting any more "challenging" than it already is.

Can't say I've made up my mind yet, but I'm certainly more informed about it now. Thanks again!

[Sean of the Thread]

I was just curious what level are you with that gear?

[BuleGila]

30k till 50, heh

[Sean of the Thread]

Ah.

Well my empath was an archer at lvl 50 to put into comparison. Didn't heal shit but herself and people got pissed at that as well lolz.

them "HEALZ?"
Me /rest
them "I'M BLEEDING !"
me /go to the refrigerator

[BuleGila]

One other thing, I believe I purchased one of them "wand bows" but I'm not sure how to use it. Anyone know the command? Is it just grab a wand and fire it? Or only certain wands work?

[Izzy]

One other thing, I believe I purchased one of them "wand bows" but I'm not sure how to use it. Anyone know the command? Is it just grab a wand and fire it? Or only certain wands work?

You don't actually fire wands. You load your bow and subsequent arrows have a chance to flare based on the wand. Most bows can only hold a specific type, and it's generally fairly obvious (red/fire on the bow = gold wands, white?/lightning = silver/iron wands, blue/ice = blue/metal wands, green/acid = crystal). I don't remember the specific verb, tbh..but it might be load wand with my wand. You can also use wizard made wands/rods.

Speaking of using wizard made wands..any ideas of the power of the flare is related to the power of the wand? For example, would a 910 loaded wand give you more power than a 901 wand? I'm fairly sure the answer is no, but I'm curious if anyone has tested.

After all that..wand bows are pretty much a waste of time. Just get plain arrows ebladed. Way cheaper.

[Kriterian]

I'm kind of in the same boat with my rogue. I just came back after a three year break and used last years fixskills to switch to archery. I was typing everything by hand with no aliases and only a few macros. It was too hectic and I grew tired of it after one hunt.

Could you guys post your aliases/scripts for archery?

[Sean of the Thread]

Macro for archery F T W.



*edit sorry I don't remember mine.

[Izzy]

Macro for archery F T W.



*edit sorry I don't remember mine.

True that.

get 1 arrow from my {quiver}\rfire\r
gather arrow\rput arrow in arrows in my {quiver}\r

S'all you need.

[Donquix]

you forgot the most important script...


start:
waitfor Awesome shot skewers skull!
put 'BOOM HEADSHOT!
put yell BOOM HEADSHOT!
put chat BOOM HEADSHOT!
put ;chat BOOM HEADSHOT!
put think BOOM HEADSHOT!
goto start

[AnticorRifling]

you forgot the most important script...


start:
waitfor Awesome shot skewers skull!
put 'BOOM HEADSHOT!
put yell BOOM HEADSHOT!
put chat BOOM HEADSHOT!
put ;chat BOOM HEADSHOT!
put think BOOM HEADSHOT!
goto start The win is strong in this one.

[droit]

I have a 6x wand bow I'd say the only downside to it is not being able to add sighting at the rare occasions it's being offered. First off, the verb is LOAD MY BOW WITH MY WAND. Second, Izzy is right that you're better off with ebladed arrows most of the time, even with a wand bow. The thing about wand bows is that even if they are loaded with wands, the special flaring will not activate if you're using an arrow with a special ability (including ebladed flares). I keep my 6x bow loaded with charges at all times, but I use ebladed arrows the vast majority of the time (6x bow + 4x ebladed arrows = win), so the arrows persist and I don't drain charges.

However, there are times when being able to ensure a flare can be extraordinarily useful, so I keep a bundle of fletched faewood arrows tucked away. My wand bow is of the ice variety, which at first I was bummed about cause ice flares kinda suck. Then I realized they gave me a huge tactical advantage versus greater water elementals. GWE's suffer a pretty nasty slow effect from any type of ice damage (immediate RT, then added RT to all actions for a period of time), so now I tag them with an ice flare to put them in RT then cast call swarm at em to stack the increased RT and put em on the ground, and then i just plink away at them (for 50-70 damage per ebladed arrow) with impunity. It works like a charm.

So the wand loading feature isn't universally useful, but it has some tactical value. I just consider mine to be a normal bow with extra capabilities, and who doesn't want extra capabilities?

[DoctorUnne]

I have no experience with archery or sword/board but I'm close in level to you (52) and I use TWC and I've always loved it. I use two handaxes and have 35 ranks of MOC. I can one-shot pretty much anything with either a focused mstrike or ambush. It's not the most efficient style in the world since I have a high RT but I hunt in groups frequently so the risk is lower. There's something very satisfying in causing an entire screen scroll in one mstrike, and if I hunt with an empath I can mstrike three times in a row before popping my muscles. Up to 24 swings in 20 seconds clears a room pretty fast.

I'm also not a locksmith though so I can afford to be in MBP as well as being about 1.25x in CM.

[Gan]

I'm kind of in the same boat with my rogue. I just came back after a three year break and used last years fixskills to switch to archery. I was typing everything by hand with no aliases and only a few macros. It was too hectic and I grew tired of it after one hunt.

Could you guys post your aliases/scripts for archery?

ALIAS FRE=stance off\rtake 1 arrow from my cloak\rfire \?
syntax: fre [target name]

ALIAS GATH=gather arrow\rput arrow in my cloak\rhide\r

[BuleGila]

I've been using ebladed arrows so far with my longbow, but I also have a crossbow with sighting on it. Would it be better to use the crossbow with the sights? Only reason I've avoided it was the annoying RT associated with it.

[Gan]

Crossbows will get you killed, especially if you get greedy and kneel in an area with a fast gen rate. Use the longbow and look for a nice shortbow to move to for less RT.

[Izzy]

I've been using ebladed arrows so far with my longbow, but I also have a crossbow with sighting on it. Would it be better to use the crossbow with the sights? Only reason I've avoided it was the annoying RT associated with it.

Crossbows blow.

[Izzy]

ALIAS FRE=stance off\rtake 1 arrow from my cloak\rfire \?
syntax: fre [target name]

ALIAS GATH=gather arrow\rput arrow in arrow in my cloak\rhide\r

The bolded addition above works better for me in 99% of cases because it rebundles the arrows, which preserves eblade charges. It is annoying when it tries to bundle arrows without charges to those with..but that's a fairly small percentage of the time.

[Jessaril]

My rogue uses a mace =)

[Warriorbird]

I like the idea of a blunt using Rogue. I've never done it in GS though.

[Jessaril]

Whips are pretty fun as well. Nothing like caving in a skull with a whip.

[deadly]

anybody got a good OHB/Shiled rogue training plan with at least 2.5-3x picking?

[Bhuryn]

anybody got a good OHB/Shiled rogue training plan with at least 2.5-3x picking?

It really depends on a few things like your training and if you want lores. It's not really that easy to do before ~40ish if you want lores, 2.5x+ pick/disarm and more then 1x cm.

I was trying to build a plan for a new rogue and I was always seeming to miss by just a few tps every level.

[deadly]

(at level 27), your base skill bonuses, ranks and goals are:
Skill Name | Actual Actual
| Bonus Ranks Goals In-Game Time to Goal
Two Weapon Combat..................| 155 55.131 0 34 days, 5 hours, 1 minute
Armor Use..........................| 108 26 28 ASAP (will rise when points are available)
Shield Use.........................| 25 5 29 ASAP (will rise when points are available)
Combat Maneuvers...................| 154 54.566 15 47 days, 22 hours, 10 minutes
Edged Weapons......................| 155 55.131 0 34 days, 5 hours, 1 minute
Blunt Weapons......................| 0 0 58 ASAP (will rise when points are available)
Ambush.............................| 157 57.166 52 7 days, 4 hours, 11 minutes
Physical Fitness...................| 102 24 24
Dodging............................| 155 55.131 29 16 days, 22 hours, 50 minutes
Arcane Symbols.....................| 0 0 10 ASAP (will rise when points are available)
Harness Power......................| 25 5 5
Disarming Traps....................| 117 29 87 ASAP (will rise when points are available)
Picking Locks......................| 117 29 87 ASAP (will rise when points are available)
Stalking and Hiding................| 164 64.254 42 14 days, 19 hours, 53 minutes
Perception.........................| 179 79.254 58 15 days, 19 hours, 13 minutes
Climbing...........................| 70 15 15
Swimming...........................| 70 15 15
Pickpocketing......................| 152 52.267 0 15 days, 11 hours, 19 minutes

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 0 4 ASAP (will rise when points are available)

this is what im trying to do with my rogue right now he will have 1x dodge(going to shoot for 2x) and 2x perception 2x stalking and hiding up to 404 10 arcane symbol (whats the max i need for scarabs/glyphs?) 1x shield 1x armor up to brig then i will stop training for a while. 0.5x cman (gonna shoot for 1.5x-2x) almost 2x in ambush--

soon as i can fixskill i need to put him in a 3xpicking/disarm training plan that is able to hunt on his own. i dont wanna be a picker slave.

any help would be appreciated.

[Mtenda]

I've been saying it for years and years. The mace is the best one handed weapon a rogue can use. Glad to see a few are doing it.

[BuleGila]

I've been saying it for years and years. The mace is the best one handed weapon a rogue can use. Glad to see a few are doing it.

Why, because it only does crush damage? I'm just asking because I'm not sure. I'm comparing the mace to both the handaxe and falchion from the gemstone website and they both seem better than using the mace. Only reason I could see the mace being better is that it only does crush, but the falchion and handaxe do more damage against most armors ((Except chain)) than the mace does.

I'm sure I'm overlooking something though.

[Donquix]

crush only and it's a second faster

this not only means a (possibly) faster swing time, but since it's a "smaller" weapon it's easier to aim.

certain maneuvers a rogue might be using in conjunction with ambushing would also cost slightly less with it as well.

[droit]

Yeah, it's the crush-only aspect he's talking about. Looking at the DF tables, the difference between the mace and fal/handaxe is actually pretty small. They're good weapons.

[deadly]

so does anybody have a good OHB/shield training plan that will have 404 by 26 and have good picking skills?

i really wanna do the mace build... im trying to stay away from archery but if anybody has a good archery training plan as well i am open to suggestions. I do have a ipantor longbow and comp bow sitting in a locker that i could use.

just looking for a good 2.5x or 3x picker with 404 and is able to hunt well at 26th level.

[BuleGila]

Damn, ohe's just suck all around! That's lame, I don't like using blunt weapons. Guess I'll have to be content with archery.


EDIT: And for OHB, they also cost 1 physical training point more than OHE. Seems I'd rather take my chances with the falchion/handaxe if I were to go this route, atleast they won't puncture.

[droit]

Or you could be a real man and go with dagger ambushing. It's not really that viable until later on, though.

[Izzy]

Damn, ohe's just suck all around! That's lame, I don't like using blunt weapons. Guess I'll have to be content with archery.


EDIT: And for OHB, they also cost 1 physical training point more than OHE. Seems I'd rather take my chances with the falchion/handaxe if I were to go this route, atleast they won't puncture.

Puncture is awesome. rank 4 eye crits fatal?! FTW.

Edit: It's slash that is garbage. puncture + crush are where it's at.

[Warriorbird]

Or you could be a real man and go with dagger ambushing. It's not really that viable until later on, though.

I just can't do it in GS. Every time I do I break down and cry at how much it sucks versus DR.

[droit]

Slash to the eye isn't bad at 5 ranks (same as crush to the head). That's why daggers are awesome. 4/5 crit rank thresholds and 2 seconds less per swing.

[droit]

How does DR handle dagger ambushing?

[Warriorbird]

In DR you actually have a seperate backstab and ambush. Using your Roguely mojo you can pretty much obliterate with a dagger in epic fashion well beyond the point of what an ambush can do. Mind you, the best weapons to backstab with cost a lot... but it is player economy driven and you can learn special guild skills to make you even better at it.

[droit]

Mind going into a little more detail or linking to a source?

[Warriorbird]

BACKSTABbing is the act of surprising an opponent from hiding and inserting a narrow blade into an important organ. This attack, when successful, causes far more damage and death than a simple ambush or weapon attack. Backstabbing can only be performed using Light Edged or Medium Edged weapons that weigh 30 stones or less and must be performed from hiding at melee distance. Backstabbing utilizes and teaches the Backstab skill, a weapon skill, and the Hiding skill versus an opponents Perception skill and limited defenses. Only bipeds can be backstabbed, including these Creatures.


Khri (pronounced 'Kree') is a group of Thief Abilities that entail heightened concentration to increase awareness and body control.

though also...


Ambush Moves

* AMBUSH STUN: Done from hiding, will attempt to give the opponent a nasty crack on the head that has the potential to knock them completely unconscious. Requires special equipment or a blunt instrument.
* AMBUSH SLASH: Done from hiding, will attempt to cut the back of the opponent's ankles in order to drop them to the ground in pain. Requires a sharp instrument and possibly a great deal of strength.
* AMBUSH SIGHT: Done from hiding, blinds and disorients your target, assuming you hit. If you're stealthy, you will vanish after the strike.
* AMBUSH SCREEN: A technique to surround oneself with dirt, blinding and disorienting nearby foes, as well as revealing any who may be trying to lurk near you. If you're stealthy, you will vanish after the attack. Can be done in and out of hiding.
* AMBUSH CLOUT: Done from hiding without a weapon, this attack will put a target to sleep temporarily.

http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Thief has most DR Thief info

[droit]

So backstabbing does +damage and +crits? Does it have other effects, or are those limited to ambush? Ambush seems like cheapshots, only with hamstring, subdue, dirtkick, etc., all rolled into one skill.

[Warriorbird]

It can instakill (apart from the crit system), damage multiplies somewhat like D&D, can ignore armor/EBP, and increases crits. Some khri can make it even nastier.

On the downside... it does discourage non edged/small stuff, at least early on, and you're nowhere near as good at it as you will eventually become.

[droit]

Explain the instakill?

[Warriorbird]

There's a percentage of just whoop, dead, ignore everything else that's seperate from critical hit kill.

[droit]

There's a percentage of just whoop, dead, ignore everything else that's seperate from critical hit kill.

yes plz

[Mtenda]

Or you could be a real man and go with dagger ambushing. It's not really that viable until later on, though.

A realer man would use a blackjack. ::wink::

[Mtenda]

Damn, ohe's just suck all around! That's lame, I don't like using blunt weapons. Guess I'll have to be content with archery.


EDIT: And for OHB, they also cost 1 physical training point more than OHE. Seems I'd rather take my chances with the falchion/handaxe if I were to go this route, atleast they won't puncture.

You get what you pay for. Don't be cheap!

[Warriorbird]

Falchion/handaxe = boring.

[BuleGila]

Falchion/handaxe = boring.

7 years ago I would of agreed. Now? Boring is being another cookie-cutter archer. Only reason I stick with it is because I can fit wearing plate with my training.

[Warriorbird]

:shrugs: Crush crits man, crush crits!

[BuleGila]

:shrugs: Crush crits man, crush crits!

Yeah, mace is a little tempting because I never knew it was a second faster, and that would let me use my 10x shield too....but at the price of lowering my armor down to fgb or chain. That's what I'm stuck between now, and I'm not sure it's worth the trade off. I'd go ohe, but mechanics have just ruined that for me. :(

[droit]

To be clear, it's not actually a second faster until you're encumbered. The standard ambush time will still be 6 seconds for a mace. However, once you're carrying a lot of weight, you'll be swinging a second faster than you would swing a handaxe with that same amount of weight.

[BuleGila]

To be clear, it's not actually a second faster until you're encumbered. The standard ambush time will still be 6 seconds for a mace. However, once you're carrying a lot of weight, you'll be swinging a second faster than you would swing a handaxe with that same amount of weight.

Ah, thanks for clearing that up then. Regardless, it's still tempting. I'm just not sure I'm ready to give up my plate just yet.

[Swami71]

To be clear, it's not actually a second faster until you're encumbered. The standard ambush time will still be 6 seconds for a mace. However, once you're carrying a lot of weight, you'll be swinging a second faster than you would swing a handaxe with that same amount of weight.

Encumbered or Mstriking right?

[droit]

Encumbered or Mstriking right?

Right.