Contemplating a Conversion...

[Maerit]

Just contemplating and wondering what would be the benefits and disadvantages of converting my level 50 warrior over to a paladin.

First off, I have terribly placed stats on my warrior, but that can be fixed just as easily with a fixstats potion (which I am in no hurry to obtain since my current stats give me more TPs right now, but in the whole scheme of things they are not great), so converting would instantly fix this issue.

Secondly, I have a unique weapon that I wonder if it would synergize better with paladins than with a warrior. It's a coraesine bastard sword. I am fully bonded to the weapon through both warrior bonding, and the weapon bonding process that this type of metal requires. Last year, on the 64-bit test server, I found converting allowed me to keep my weapon bonding, but obviously not my CMAN warrior bonding.

So, I have a few questions knowing next to nothing about the paladin profession.

1) Sanctify - does this mean that my weapon will always be capable of hitting undead? Can you use Guiding Light flares with a weapon that already has flares? Would I be able to imbue a sword that has flares with a spell at rank 3 sanctify? Do the flares or spell imbued work on non-undead?

2) My current Arkati is Kai, I believe he does crushing damage? How does that impact gameplay for a Paladin?

3) Seems like sword/board is a pretty popular Paladin playstyle. Right now, I am going 2-handed with my weapon as a warrior, would it make more sense to use a bastard sword one-handed as a paladin since there are special abilities to improve damage base and take advantage of a shield?

4) Do paladins handle swarms well, and what abilities aid when facing a swarm?

5) Defensively, are Paladins better or on par with a warrior and DFRedux considerations? I know they have some good defensive spells, but does that hinder their abilities to train DFRedux? Would a paladin typically seek outside defensive spells, or are they more or less self-reliant?

6) What spells can you cast in combat considering spell hinderance?

7) What armor type is typically worn at or around level 50 for paladins?

8) Do Paladins have sufficient abilities to replace things like feint, tackle, and berserk, which are presently key abilities in my warrior's arsenal (preferably without using the CMAN system)?

9) For capped players, is it easier to manage a paladin as a solo player over a warrior who constantly needs spells from others (or so it seems) in capped hunting areas (spellburst and other concerns)?

10) What CMAN abilities seem to go best with Paladin combat (less RP or cool fun stuff, more necessary mechanical CMANs)?

Just a little info to help understand what work would be lost from a conversion since this would be non-reversable. My warrior has mastered tackle and berserk in the guild. He has 30 ranks of warrior tricks, and 20 ranks of warcries. I'm still less than 10 ranks in batter and disarm. Presently, he's fully trained to wield full plate armor, has a great set as well. I am mastered in Sunfist (is that a good society for paladins?), and usually hunt solo with lots of outside help from 3rd party spells. With my DFRedux, heavy damage padding from Sigils, and heavy crit padding from armor, I can stand toe-to-toe in full berserk against swarms of opponents right now. Yet, whenever I encounter an undead critter, they become a real annoyance. If Paladins are just as good in swarms, just as fun with their combat system, and obviously more capable of handing undead... maybe I'd enjoy it more? Thanks in advance, it's a long list of questions!

[JJBummer]

I don't know a thing about Paladins but I think yours is one of the best thought out and well written series of questions I've seen on these boards in a long time.

I hope someone puts as much time and thought into answering your questions.

[TheLastShamurai]

1) Sanctify - does this mean that my weapon will always be capable of hitting undead? Can you use Guiding Light flares with a weapon that already has flares? Would I be able to imbue a sword that has flares with a spell at rank 3 sanctify? Do the flares or spell imbued work on non-undead?

Yes, a bonded weapon will always hit undead unless the metal itself strictly prohibits it (greater black ora, not sure about the new stuff).

No, you cannot add guiding light flares to a weapon with flares.

Yes, if you imbue a spell into your bonded sword the spell will flare on undead.

Yes, you can imbue spells into weapons with flares.


2) My current Arkati is Kai, I believe he does crushing damage? How does that impact gameplay for a Paladin?

Crush damage will not greatly impact your life pre-cap. Once you cap and increase spell ranks/CS/warding margins, you will notice a spike in your 1615/1630s knocking creatures down instead of forcing them to kneel.

Though it is annoying and should be fixed, it's not really a huge concern.


3) Seems like sword/board is a pretty popular Paladin playstyle. Right now, I am going 2-handed with my weapon as a warrior, would it make more sense to use a bastard sword one-handed as a paladin since there are special abilities to improve damage base and take advantage of a shield?

Only if you can use a bastard sword one handed without being trained both in one-handed edged and two-handers.

If you cannot, just go two-handed.


4) Do paladins handle swarms well, and what abilities aid when facing a swarm?

Generally speaking yes, we do.

Mstrike and Summoning Lore training.


5) Defensively, are Paladins better or on par with a warrior and DFRedux considerations? I know they have some good defensive spells, but does that hinder their abilities to train DFRedux? Would a paladin typically seek outside defensive spells, or are they more or less self-reliant?

I was never a warrior, so I cannot compare.


6) What spells can you cast in combat considering spell hinderance?

Pre-cap, all Paladin base. Post-cap with enough armor, all MnS based.


7) What armor type is typically worn at or around level 50 for paladins?

I tripled to get into full plate.


8) Do Paladins have sufficient abilities to replace things like feint, tackle, and berserk, which are presently key abilities in my warrior's arsenal (preferably without using the CMAN system)?

1615/1630 makes things kneel. That plus feint is my main way of disabling things.


9) For capped players, is it easier to manage a paladin as a solo player over a warrior who constantly needs spells from others (or so it seems) in capped hunting areas (spellburst and other concerns)?

Once again, was never a warrior, so I cannot accurately answer this.


10) What CMAN abilities seem to go best with Paladin combat (less RP or cool fun stuff, more necessary mechanical CMANs)?

Feint and WSpec for offense. Disarm and whatever makes you happy for defense.


I am mastered in Sunfist (is that a good society for paladins?)

Best, atleast until they upgrade the others.

.

Also, hit up Menos on AIM @GS4 Menos to get the scoop on what it's like for a warrior conversion.

[thefarmer]

Paladins don't have grinds like warriors do with the guild. Yes, the guild is a benefit, but damn it's boring/difficult/etc.

That's the only mechanical thing I think you should weigh.

[Androidpk]

I think that applies to katanas only.

[thefarmer]

1) Sanctify - does this mean that my weapon will always be capable of hitting undead? Can you use Guiding Light flares with a weapon that already has flares? Would I be able to imbue a sword that has flares with a spell at rank 3 sanctify? Do the flares or spell imbued work on non-undead?

Yes, No, Yes, Yes.

2) My current Arkati is Kai, I believe he does crushing damage? How does that impact gameplay for a Paladin?

Yes, crush crits are nice. Better than other available types.


3) Seems like sword/board is a pretty popular Paladin playstyle. Right now, I am going 2-handed with my weapon as a warrior, would it make more sense to use a bastard sword one-handed as a paladin since there are special abilities to improve damage base and take advantage of a shield?

Paladins do equally fine 2hd/pole/ohe/blunt/shield.


4) Do paladins handle swarms well, and what abilities aid when facing a swarm?

Judgement can hit multiple targets with lore. otherwise you're surviving the same way (to a lesser degree) warriors do: Full plate, Redux, and a huge attack to wipe out shit.


5) Defensively, are Paladins better or on par with a warrior and DFRedux considerations? I know they have some good defensive spells, but does that hinder their abilities to train DFRedux? Would a paladin typically seek outside defensive spells, or are they more or less self-reliant?

No, yes.


6) What spells can you cast in combat considering spell hinderance?

100's circle has limited offensive ability. Any defensive ability can be cast in town before the hunt. With ARMOR Fluidity and 150 ranks, I can cast the 100's circle (with 1603) with 4% hinderance. In full plate. In 6 seconds of soft rt.


7) What armor type is typically worn at or around level 50 for paladins?

MBP-fullplate


8) Do Paladins have sufficient abilities to replace things like feint, tackle, and berserk, which are presently key abilities in my warrior's arsenal (preferably without using the CMAN system)?

You want to learn Cmans. Feint/shieldbash/charge/surge, etc. Same as when you're a warrior. You also have some moderate disabling spells.


9) For capped players, is it easier to manage a paladin as a solo player over a warrior who constantly needs spells from others (or so it seems) in capped hunting areas (spellburst and other concerns)?

Most capped people spell up with outside spells, regardless of profession.


10) What CMAN abilities seem to go best with Paladin combat (less RP or cool fun stuff, more necessary mechanical CMANs)?

Answered above.


Just a little info to help understand what work would be lost from a conversion since this would be non-reversable. My warrior has mastered tackle and berserk in the guild. He has 30 ranks of warrior tricks, and 20 ranks of warcries. I'm still less than 10 ranks in batter and disarm. Presently, he's fully trained to wield full plate armor, has a great set as well. I am mastered in Sunfist (is that a good society for paladins?), and usually hunt solo with lots of outside help from 3rd party spells. With my DFRedux, heavy damage padding from Sigils, and heavy crit padding from armor, I can stand toe-to-toe in full berserk against swarms of opponents right now. Yet, whenever I encounter an undead critter, they become a real annoyance. If Paladins are just as good in swarms, just as fun with their combat system, and obviously more capable of handing undead... maybe I'd enjoy it more? Thanks in advance, it's a long list of questions!

LIke I said earlier, about the only thing you lose is the warrior guild. As a paladin you the ability to cast some spells in fullplate, gain the best semi-redux, have a huge attack swing, and hunt anything you want alive/undead.

Oh, and GoS is pretty much win for paladins too.

Nobody likes paladins, but really they're a pretty powerful profession.

[Khariz]

You know what, Maerit? I've had this conversation with people so many times, that I'm just going to paste my most recent attempt to convince someone NOT to do it. I think it's in context enough to be helpful, even if there is some exaggeration present:

Friend (4:25:34 PM): im considering converting dude to pali
Friend (4:25:59 PM): oh yea, you can read scrolls right?
Me (4:26:26 PM): yeah
Friend (4:29:01 PM): got an arm of arkati spell?
Friend (4:29:08 PM): i mean i have a scroll with that
Friend (4:29:39 PM): 15% df increase
Friend (4:29:41 PM): heh
Me (4:30:21 PM): yeah, I just don't even find that necessary for claids/mauls. To me that spell exists for sword/board pallies who need it to act like warriors
Me (4:30:27 PM): its pretty impressive on a morning star
Friend (4:30:36 PM): heh
Friend (4:30:59 PM): i have been reading, and pali's hit harder than warriors
Friend (4:31:05 PM): its making me consider it
Friend (4:31:12 PM): and they have a better TD
Me (4:31:45 PM): I'll jsut tell you this...all of my buddies who have converted have hated it, regreted it, and ultimately quit the game over it. I converted when I was level 62 did 62 to 70, and then bribed Simu to change me back to a warrior.
Friend (4:32:06 PM): heh
Friend (4:32:08 PM): damn
Friend (4:32:12 PM): why did you hate them
Me (4:32:18 PM): its just horrible.
Friend (4:32:31 PM): like what though, cause i cant get anyone to tell me specifics about them
Friend (4:32:37 PM): they just either love them or hate them
Me (4:34:15 PM): You have all these spells that stack in like 10 min increments so it takes an hour to spell yourself up. Then you can't use armor as effectively because if you want a decent amount of spell ranks it cause you BOTH to be able to wear platemail WAY later in life (like 80+), or you have to live with having hardly any spells. Add onto the fact that the more spells you have, the shittier your redux gets, and you are basically a pussy compared to a warrior. My spelled TD at cap with Mad is 374. Barely any monster can ward me except those level 105 undead in Nelemar and some of the grizzled grimwarm. It's not that bad.
Me (4:34:50 PM): And Yeah it's nice to swing a 650+ self cast AS and have that extra DF on weapons
Me (4:35:02 PM): but all things considered, you are not as strong as a warrior.
Friend (4:35:43 PM): nod
Me (4:36:01 PM): here's one more
Me (4:36:36 PM): a couple of the spells invovle DS and Blocking Increase but only work if you use a shield. Thats why most Paladins are onehanders, because you lose half the benefits of being a paladin if you use twohanders (edit: this was my opinion mostly)
Friend (4:36:50 PM): damn
Friend (4:36:52 PM): didnt know that
Me (4:37:25 PM): I had to find almost all of this out the hard way
Me (4:37:34 PM): because as with everything else, I just jumped into it
Me (4:37:37 PM): I have no patience
Me (4:37:46 PM): I hated it so bad.
Me (4:37:56 PM): Simu wanted 250 bucks to change me back, and I paid it in a heartbeat
Friend (4:38:06 PM): heh
Friend (4:38:20 PM): i read that restorals now are 500
Me (4:38:25 PM): yeah, that blows
Me (4:38:45 PM): plus I had to do levels 62 through 70 all over again
Me (4:38:48 PM): that was agonizing too, but totally worth it

Make of that what you will.

[thefarmer]

Me (4:34:15 PM): You have all these spells that stack in like 10 min increments so it takes an hour to spell yourself up. Then you can't use armor as effectively because if you want a decent amount of spell ranks it cause you BOTH to be able to wear platemail WAY later in life (like 80+), or you have to live with having hardly any spells. Add onto the fact that the more spells you have, the shittier your redux gets, and you are basically a pussy compared to a warrior. My spelled TD at cap with Mad is 374. Barely any monster can ward me except those level 105 undead in Nelemar and some of the grizzled grimwarm. It's not that bad.

Doesn't take me an hour to spell up at 65-ish.

I wore plate at 50-something I think at 1x spells.

I hunted plane 1 and did fine with unpadded plate with just my spells and redux.

I know you were exaggerating, but I figured I'd address it. I'll also say that paladins aren't for everyone. Just like warriors aren't either. Both professions are equally shitty and great at the same time.

[Khariz]

Doesn't take me an hour to spell up at 65-ish.

I wore plate at 50-something I think at 1x spells.

I hunted plane 1 and did fine with unpadded plate with just my spells and redux.

I know you were exaggerating, but I figured I'd address it. I'll also say that paladins aren't for everyone. Just like warriors aren't either. Both professions are equally shitty and great at the same time.

Great addition to my log. He needs the other side.

Edit: Note that when I say "spell up", I mean "stack every spell you can cast to 4 hours".

Edit2: Using your own mana.

[Sylvan Dreams]

1) Sanctify - does this mean that my weapon will always be capable of hitting undead? Can you use Guiding Light flares with a weapon that already has flares? Would I be able to imbue a sword that has flares with a spell at rank 3 sanctify? Do the flares or spell imbued work on non-undead?

Sanctified weapons are always blessed in the hands of a cleric or paladin without them actually having to cast bless on it. So, yes, your weapon will be able to hit undead, though some undead may or may not have additional requirements.


2) My current Arkati is Kai, I believe he does crushing damage? How does that impact gameplay for a Paladin?

I don't have experience with Kai but from discussions on the paladin boards, it generally seems better to be converted to someone.


3) Seems like sword/board is a pretty popular Paladin playstyle. Right now, I am going 2-handed with my weapon as a warrior, would it make more sense to use a bastard sword one-handed as a paladin since there are special abilities to improve damage base and take advantage of a shield?

Divine Shield (1609) will not do anything for you unless you have a shield (it increases your chance to block attacks with your shield).


4) Do paladins handle swarms well, and what abilities aid when facing a swarm?

Aura of the Arkati (1614) and Judgement (1630) are the primary spells for dealing with swarms. They are disabler spells. 1614 can't kill at all and 1630 doesn't reliably. However, your targets will be put into all sorts of status effects such as kneeling and roundtime.


5) Defensively, are Paladins better or on par with a warrior and DFRedux considerations? I know they have some good defensive spells, but does that hinder their abilities to train DFRedux? Would a paladin typically seek outside defensive spells, or are they more or less self-reliant?

The ONLY primary skill for redux is PT, which warriors can 3x versus a paladin's 2x. That alone sets a paladin at a disadvantage in terms of redux. Overall, their redux will be lower because they will be devoting more TP's to lores and other magical skills. However, their DS and AS are both naturally higher than a warrior's.


6) What spells can you cast in combat considering spell hinderance?

With 150 ranks of Armor Use, your paladin spell circle hindrance is 13%. Honestly, I only cast spells when I'm trying to play around while hunting. I kill far more effectively with thrown or edged than with spells. You CAN use your paladin spells while hunting, though at 13%. Fluidity will bring that even lower.


7) What armor type is typically worn at or around level 50 for paladins?

No idea on this one. I'd assume chain hauberk or so. It would depend on whether you went 2x or 3x Armor Use.


8) Do Paladins have sufficient abilities to replace things like feint, tackle, and berserk, which are presently key abilities in my warrior's arsenal (preferably without using the CMAN system)?

Paladin's can learn feint, disarm and a few other things. However, they can only do so via the CMAN system as they do not have a guild.

Here are the CMAN's available to paladins:

Combat Movement (cmovement)
Combat Focus (focus)
Combat Mastery (cmastery)
Shield Bash (sbash)
Shield Charge (scharge)
Disarm Weapon (disarm)
Feint (feint)
Charge (charge)
Precision (precision)
Subdual Strike (sstrike)
Specialization I (wspec1)
Specialization II (wspec2)
Specialization III (wspec3)
Multi-Fire (mfire)
Side by Side (sidebyside)
Crowd Press (cpress)
Combat Toughness (toughness)
Truehand (truehand)
Bull Rush (bullrush)
Surge of Strength (surge)
Trip (trip)


9) For capped players, is it easier to manage a paladin as a solo player over a warrior who constantly needs spells from others (or so it seems) in capped hunting areas (spellburst and other concerns)?

OTF is definitely easier as a paladin and hunts are completed in less time.



10) What CMAN abilities seem to go best with Paladin combat (less RP or cool fun stuff, more necessary mechanical CMANs)?

This is largely personal preference. I don't really use CMAN's while hunting because there isn't a need to do so. I do have feint, disarm, shield bash/shield charge, weapon spec, surge and toughness. I'm in the middle of migrating points so I haven't used up all mine at present.

The conversion IS reversible. It would cost you $250 dollars and you would lose all experience gained since the conversion.

Paladin's definitely do well in Sunfist. I hate warcamps though, so I avoid those whenever humanly possible. I will say that the few times I ventured into warcamps (solo), I did just fine. Rejuvenation (1607) replenishes your stamina and increases your stamina recovery which is also great for Sunfist.

[Fallen]

Kai does crush damage. Good stuff.

[Jace Solo]

Mental Terrorism! Striking fear into him so he wont convert.

lol

I love you Mad :)

Paladins can uphunt like warriors can. We have more personal utility imo.
I've been killing storm giants, kiramon, and arctic titans since about 22-24.

As far as spelling up...
If that's a problem for you, spell up while you're letting the mind empty. At 50 it's not an issue, I know they aren't at 11m per cast...because all of mine are near 25 now at 27. At 50 I would assume they would be up between 35-45m per cast. And your mana pool would be able to support that in 4 rounds of a simple script. It's a pain at lower levels, but he's entering mid round. Berserking is the only reason I would consider being a warrior over a paladin.

I stand toe to toe, in hauberk, with swarms of grimswarm and the only thing that can touch me is a ranger's thorns. I don't even need AoE, just need to keep your head up.

[Maerit]

First off, thanks for all the replies.

Mad, big respects to ya, you were a major help the other night with your warrior mentoring, and I am definitely digging my new 2-handed devoted style vs the old swap and drop tactic.

Bastard swords are changeable with no special training. They have their own damage table for both one and two handed useage. The one-handed damage table is about as good as a falchion. The two handed style is a little weaker than a two-handed sword base.

I DO enjoy playing as a warrior, but I had to re-activate my second account to have a reliable source of spells from a level 41 sorcerer pet. Before I re-activated that account I was paying 10k every 3-4 hours for a full wizard spell up. And, my second pet peeve is undead. I either have to beg for a bless on a different less powerful weapon, or stock up on pure potions.

However, I'd have to give up berserk... which recently is freaking awesome with my MOC training. I'd also lose out on some of my redux, and right now with heavy crit padded full plate, sunfist sigil to add heavy damage padding, and 2x PT, I barely take any damage even with large end rolls, and never get more than a minor from physical attacks (though maneuvers are a bitch!).

I can train auxiliary abilities like first aid for excellent skinning, perception for the ability to forage, and survival to help with those environmental annoyances. Undead suck, thats pretty much the only major annoyance I have to deal with (and I'm not a Voln type player... just not my thing).

Mad, I'm in Teras now! Been fighting in Thrak swarms and Pyrothags... only thing that tears me up presently (at level 50) is Skayls with their fire maneuver... So, I guess I'll stick with what I know for now.

Oh, one last question. So... if you can't rely on spells in combat, how do you use 1614 and 1630 to deal with swarms? Wouldn't you fizzle those spells a lot?

[thefarmer]

However, I'd have to give up berserk... which recently is freaking awesome with my MOC training. I'd also lose out on some of my redux, and right now with heavy crit padded full plate, sunfist sigil to add heavy damage padding, and 2x PT, I barely take any damage even with large end rolls, and never get more than a minor from physical attacks (though maneuvers are a bitch!).

Even as a paladin, you still wouldn't take more than a minor from large endrolls...



Oh, one last question. So... if you can't rely on spells in combat, how do you use 1614 and 1630 to deal with swarms? Wouldn't you fizzle those spells a lot?

If by fizzle you mean fail due to hinderances? Basically? You won't be.

[Khariz]

Mad, I'm in Teras now! Been fighting in Thrak swarms and Pyrothags... only thing that tears me up presently (at level 50) is Skayls with their fire maneuver... So, I guess I'll stick with what I know for now.



I'll be out that way as soon as my warrior bond is finished on Sorrow (not that the will bond is done). I'll see you out there.

[Donquix]

armor training (and eventually, overtraining) + paladin spell to reduce hindrance + fluidity + pally spells being designed to be workable in heavy armors....in other words, no.

[Donquix]

I'll be out that way as soon as my warrior bond is finished on Sorrow (not that the will bond is done). I'll see you out there.

awww, don't leave. I love seeing sorrow around town. Great to see the items like this getting such active use.

Cracks me up when i'm resting in the park and i suddenly see it scream.

[Sylvan Dreams]

As a warrior in OTF, the general causes of my death were lightning flares from a crystal weapon or a lightning mote.

As a paladin in OTF, the general causes of my death are....lightning mote.

There's a few deaths in there that were from a series of perfectly timed, stacked events (such as, getting stuck into big RT from something or another, then getting hugely dispelled, then weapon fired or something else along those lines). But, these are VERY rare, because like I said, they require a specific series of events to take place.

Yes, you lose redux. Will you notice it? No, probably not.

1614 and 1630 are your spells for dealing with swarms. Will you fizzle? Sure. But hell, a pure with 4% still fizzles. Remember, the 13% is BEFORE you tack fluidity on.

Anyway, from my own experience, paladin > warrior, hands down, in all ways. I've never seriously considered doing a character restoration to go back to warrior and definitely never will.

[Maerit]

Anyway, from my own experience, paladin > warrior, hands down, in all ways. I've never seriously considered doing a character restoration to go back to warrior and definitely never will.

Ok, only curious then. Did you level up as a paladin, or were you already capped as a warrior when you converted? I only ask because it seems like you would face a lot of training trials in the earlier levels. This is from my limited experience playing around with out-dated spreadsheet character builders and attempting to stack the right skills with too little TPs it seems. I have to give up lores to get enough armor, or give up armor to train 1x in spells, and forget about being able to skin or forage... Just doesn't work with the paladin skill set and TP costs from what I can see.

I really like the concept of Paladin. It sounds like a pretty fun class, and one I could RP pretty well also. Just not sure if the mechanical benefits outweigh my warrior's ability to hold his ground at this stage of the game (level 50).

[thefarmer]

At level 50, you've already gotten past the most difficult part of being a paladin, TPs.

You shouldn't have any issues (compared to say, a warrior) with learning the things you want to learn.

edit: Lores are great, but like most professions, take a lot of effort. You can learn a minimal amount (enough for 3 targets with Judgement with 85% kneeling chance) and never learn anymore and do fine.

After you learn 120/1135 you can never learn anymore and do fine.

[Fallen]

Debia converted far into post-cap. A warrior versus a paladin post cap simply isn't fair. SO much more to do with your experience.

[TheLastShamurai]

After you learn 120/1135 you can never learn anymore and do fine.

Hmmm, loves me some 1135.

[LordThoranios]

I converrted Thoranios at level 70 shortly after paladins came out. Ill admit ive questioned it a few times when i wished i could swing multiple weapon types. Other than that i have had no issues hunting. I hunted the rift to level 95 or so then moved on to Nelemar and have no problems at all.

I cant really say i have any issues spelling myself up to even 4 hrs but thats because im a dwarf and in COL. I simply wrack and spell up...wait a few minutes for spirit and im good.

You have to have the right reasons for wanting to switch. If you like the guild then dont convert. Myself i hated the guild after some of the older warriors left the game and stopped hanging around the guild. I also did my conversion after returning to the game from a 2 year break and think i just needed something new.

As for the redux and spells i dont think you will notice alot. I currently have 83 spell ranks and 5x plate and dont have issues getting beat up badly at all.

Swarms are not real issue either. 1630 and mstrike.



I think it all boils down to choice and if you want to try something new. Ive hunted with plenty of capped warriors (Madmountain, Cryheart, Hakonne.....) and they are just as strong as i am and have no problems. Mad makes great points and you should keep it all in mind when you decide but also remember he has all the great toys! (my old 10x padded plate)

Any other questions about post cap id be glad to answer.

Thor

[Fallen]

One downside to Paladins is that they really look to have no active DEV at the moment. -SOMEONE- will mention -SOMETHING- on the way for Paladins at Simucon. I think that is a requirement. However, that doesn't mean it will actually happen, or atleast not before next Simucon, where they talk about more stuff that they have planned.

[Maerit]

Oh how I wish the 'ol test server was back so I could give it a try for about a week. It would suck to find out I didn't enjoy playing a paladin over a warrior, and thus result in a $250.00 charge to go back on the conversion.

Guild work isn't all that exciting to me, but it does give me something to fill the time while I rest. Do some trick reps, prune some bushes or clean some floors for warcries while my head clears up. Since I've mastered a couple of the more useful abilities, I can just take it slow on the remaining ones.

Having a DEV is nice, especially since warriors have apparently seen some love rather recently. MOC changes, Berserk changes, and it seems like 2-handed weapons became more viable since I was gone (better bolt defenses). Not that MOC and 2-handers only impacts warriors, but combined with berserk... it's verra nice. I also don't like that it seems paladins have no stun protection? Out here in Teras I occasionally get hit by a maneuver or one of those lava explosions, berserking out of a 6 round stun in hostile territory is just brilliant... nothing like that for Paladins, right?

Curiously, 102... Is this a spell a Paladin uses? I'm trying to figure out the mechanics as it pushes down your AS, but does training in minor spiritual spell ranks reduce the AS reduction, or increase it?

[Bhuryn]

Doesn't take me an hour to spell up at 65-ish.

I wore plate at 50-something I think at 1x spells.

I hunted plane 1 and did fine with unpadded plate with just my spells and redux.

I know you were exaggerating, but I figured I'd address it. I'll also say that paladins aren't for everyone. Just like warriors aren't either. Both professions are equally shitty and great at the same time.

I'll second this. I had full plate at 57-58 with 1x spells, 1x hp and when I buff I generally put on ~2 hours of blues then just cast everything once. Usually I need to recast 1612 and arm while I hunt but everything else typically lasts through even the kill 22-23 hunting tasks.

Empaths are far, far, far worse to buff up then paladins =).

[Bhuryn]

Curiously, 102... Is this a spell a Paladin uses? I'm trying to figure out the mechanics as it pushes down your AS, but does training in minor spiritual spell ranks reduce the AS reduction, or increase it?

I have used it occasionally, but only for special cases. You can combine it and zealot and gain some AS without losing DS, but it's hardly worth it or necessary.

[droit]

I also don't like that it seems paladins have no stun protection? Out here in Teras I occasionally get hit by a maneuver or one of those lava explosions, berserking out of a 6 round stun in hostile territory is just brilliant... nothing like that for Paladins, right?

Actually, paladins have a far superior ability.


1635 · Divine Intervention [DINTERV]
Duration: Immediate

Type: Utility/Defense

Divine Intervention calls the patron to the Paladin's aid, assisting in freeing her from her plight. The patron Arkati removes one status effect from the Paladin when she uses the BESEECH command, at a cost of 35 Mana Points (MP), to call for assistance. Such effects include, but are not limited to web, stun, bind, poison, disease, and curse. Because the deity is removing the effect and not the Paladin, there is no spell hindrance. The Paladin cannot be asleep when using this ability.

Note: Using the BESEECH command at any other time will not cost the paladin 35 MPs.

Instant removal of a stun without the pesky residual berserk. Beseech is one of the few abilities I really wish rangers had.

[Fallen]

There will be a Test server to play around in RSN as Monks and the Society review are supposed to be out. I would wait until then before you make your decision. That is what Debia did, and I think it greatly aided her in the choice to switch over.

[Maerit]

There will be a Test server to play around in RSN as Monks and the Society review are supposed to be out. I would wait until then before you make your decision. That is what Debia did, and I think it greatly aided her in the choice to switch over.

When is RSN? Been away for quite a while, so I'm a little out of the loop.

[Fallen]

Who the hell knows? Probably within 6-12 months.

[droit]

heh. RSN means "Real Soon Now"

[Donquix]

Yeah, come on test server. I can try monks for giglges and shits and pallies.

How does the test server work exactly? do they just make a copy of all existing characters characters when they decide to put it up or is it like other games where you choose which character to copy over and when? Or do they just have?

If it's the latter when the test server is up i'm going to need to borrow someones uber two hander of doom to copy over with my cleric to try converting him to pally :)

[mgoddess]

FWIW, I converted Cylnthia from a warrior to a paladin when she was 48... and I haven't regretted it in the year and five months since. In fact, I've gained 9 levels in that year and five months, which is well, well, well beyond normal for me (it took me three and a half years to get to level 48 as a warrior).

At 48 (and even still), Cylnthia wears 6x, spiked chain hauberk. She has 110 ranks of armor use, so with Armor Fluidity at 3 ranks, I can get her spell hindrance down to 7% and 8% (Paladin & MnS, respectively). Of course, she doesn't have plate protection, but for the way I play her, I don't mind... that is, until she gets well post-cap and can afford full plate (both training-wise and silver-wise) that as is at least 6x and spiked.

I have to agree with people on the test server... try it out there to see if you like it. Or, if you're quick at it, roll up a new paladin and test out like that. (Or buy a paladin and test with it.)

[Maerit]

Hrmm, at level 50, 2x in armor use, I could have 100 ranks or armor use, which equates to augmented breastplate from a physical hinderance perspective, but obviously not quite for spell hinderance. My warrior is at 135 ranks right now wearing 4x HCP full plate that is spiked. This armor is pretty good (ugly), but wouldn't the spikes become meaningless?

Does CMAN charge cause armor spikes to activate? If I have full plate that covers all body parts, would headbutt invoke spike flares?

Folks keep sayin "come on" test server, like it's currently active? Can I go onto the test server?

[Bhuryn]

Hrmm, at level 50, 2x in armor use, I could have 100 ranks or armor use, which equates to augmented breastplate from a physical hinderance perspective, but obviously not quite for spell hinderance. My warrior is at 135 ranks right now wearing 4x HCP full plate that is spiked. This armor is pretty good (ugly), but wouldn't the spikes become meaningless?

Does CMAN charge cause armor spikes to activate? If I have full plate that covers all body parts, would headbutt invoke spike flares?

Folks keep sayin "come on" test server, like it's currently active? Can I go onto the test server?

charge uses a polearm so flares on the polearm are activated, not spikes. Bullrush will active spikes I believe, but it sucks compared to charge.

I would try to increase to more then 2x armor if you're going to use polearms/thw, even if you have to sacrifice lores and such to do it. Shoot for 150 ranks by 58-60.

[Fallen]

Charge involves polearms, so no. Headbutt is a warrior only CMAN, and I believe if your entire armor is spiked and you DONT wear a helmet it will flare (assuming you're wearing spiked haub or full plate).

People are saying, "Come on test server!" because they are anxious for its arrival. It is not out yet. It will be available with the preview of Monks and/or the Voln/COL review. Both of which are not expected before Simucon IMO.

[Sylvan Dreams]

Ok, only curious then. Did you level up as a paladin, or were you already capped as a warrior when you converted? I only ask because it seems like you would face a lot of training trials in the earlier levels. This is from my limited experience playing around with out-dated spreadsheet character builders and attempting to stack the right skills with too little TPs it seems. I have to give up lores to get enough armor, or give up armor to train 1x in spells, and forget about being able to skin or forage... Just doesn't work with the paladin skill set and TP costs from what I can see.

I really like the concept of Paladin. It sounds like a pretty fun class, and one I could RP pretty well also. Just not sure if the mechanical benefits outweigh my warrior's ability to hold his ground at this stage of the game (level 50).

I was already capped when I converted. At the time of conversion, my character had very few things to train in, none of which would provide anything significant.

Semi's can be a little spread thin when it comes to TP's because of their skill costs. Skinning and foraging were two of my most favorite skills and it was definitely hard for me in the beginning when I had to lose all those ranks in order to get other things, but it was still all worth it.

[Sylvan Dreams]

Oh how I wish the 'ol test server was back so I could give it a try for about a week. It would suck to find out I didn't enjoy playing a paladin over a warrior, and thus result in a $250.00 charge to go back on the conversion.

Guild work isn't all that exciting to me, but it does give me something to fill the time while I rest. Do some trick reps, prune some bushes or clean some floors for warcries while my head clears up. Since I've mastered a couple of the more useful abilities, I can just take it slow on the remaining ones.

Having a DEV is nice, especially since warriors have apparently seen some love rather recently. MOC changes, Berserk changes, and it seems like 2-handed weapons became more viable since I was gone (better bolt defenses). Not that MOC and 2-handers only impacts warriors, but combined with berserk... it's verra nice. I also don't like that it seems paladins have no stun protection? Out here in Teras I occasionally get hit by a maneuver or one of those lava explosions, berserking out of a 6 round stun in hostile territory is just brilliant... nothing like that for Paladins, right?

Curiously, 102... Is this a spell a Paladin uses? I'm trying to figure out the mechanics as it pushes down your AS, but does training in minor spiritual spell ranks reduce the AS reduction, or increase it?

Paladins have one of the best means of reacting to a stun - beseech. It costs 35 mana and will remove all status effects (except sleep) from you. It is awesome.

102 is not something I use very often. I use it when I am doing search the ground for a trinket tasks. You can't STOP the spell, so you do end up with an AS loss for a while. I have used it in combination with Zealot when I was too lazy to spell up properly, though.

[Baelog]

FWIW, I converted Cylnthia from a warrior to a paladin when she was 48... and I haven't regretted it in the year and five months since. In fact, I've gained 9 levels in that year and five months, which is well, well, well beyond normal for me (it took me three and a half years to get to level 48 as a warrior).

Hunting...

http://content.pyzam.com/funnypics/misc/DoingItWrong6.jpg

http://www.bradfox.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/wrong.jpg

Did I mention your doing it wrong?

[mgoddess]

FWIW, I converted Cylnthia from a warrior to a paladin when she was 48... and I haven't regretted it in the year and five months since. In fact, I've gained 9 levels in that year and five months, which is well, well, well beyond normal for me (it took me three and a half years to get to level 48 as a warrior).

Hunting...

http://content.pyzam.com/funnypics/misc/DoingItWrong6.jpg

http://www.bradfox.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/wrong.jpg

Did I mention your doing it wrong?
Eh. I might be doing it wrong... but I also have six other characters past 20 and two under 20. :shrug:

I honestly don't care if people "label" me as "doing things wrong". As long as I'm having fun, that's what matters to me.

[TheLastShamurai]

Paladins suck, convert to a monk!

[CaptContagious]

my vote is paladin > warrior:


just a few things i love about being a paladin over a warrior.

1625: You can fucking Sanc a claid! No damage weighting? No current flares? No problem! have some double flaring plasma flares! Not enough? imbeda spell to go with them.

1616: 1616 + giantman = metric shit ton of HP's.

1619: I love this spell. sure its 19 mana but that 19 mana has saved my ass sooooo many times.

[thefarmer]

You missed one of the top 3 spells in the game...

[CaptContagious]

1635 is a given, and has had its praise in this thread already

[Fulmen]

Well, coming at it from a slightly different angle that may or may not be useful to you... I converted at 50ish from a Cleric to a Paladin and have loved it ever since. Far more versatile now.

[Peanut Butter Jelly Time]

I second the Menos thing from a ways back, though don't mind me if I skipped the part where he threw in his seventy two cents (as I only looked through every other page).

Apparently a lance to the eye is pretty effective, no matter how you slice it.