Official: GM Oscuro as Rogue Guru

[Fallen]

With GM Ildran stepping down to CGM status, a large void has been opened in that Rogues no longer have a full time staff member as their champion. I've volunteered for this position and hope to do what I can to fill this void. Rogues have always been a passion of mine so I'm pretty excited to get this job so I can do my part for Rogue-dom!

I realize many of you may be concerned with me as the main Rogue team member as I currently have many other areas of development that I'm involved with such as the Cleric/Empath team, Monk and Savant development, creatures and Voln/CoL. I've decided to hand over the Voln/CoL guru position to whom I inherited it from in the first place - GM Coase. I've also stepped back a bit on Cleric/Empath duties since Estild, Warden and I are starting to feel those classes are finally coming together. I will not be leaving the Cleric/Empath team fully, however - I still have the Cleric Orisons project underway and I'll still be involved in design discussions. With these reductions, I'll have the necessary time to work on the plans I've inherited, my own plans for the profession and those that Warden has already assigned me.

Since 1998, a Rogue has been my main player character in GemStone. I find myself making Rogues or their equivalent in most RPGs I play. They're an extremely fun class and they always seem to play the same, familiar way of being a dodgy, stealthy trickster character who uses his wits and resources to get himself out of scrapes. This is the stereotypical Rogue that development has catered towards in the past. I don't see this changing with me. I fully intend on keeping with the status quo of Rogue strengths (one-on-one combat, stealth, lockpicking, evasiveness, etc.) and weaknesses (killing multiple targets quickly, spell defenses, etc.).

As it stands, we do not envision sweeping changes to ambushing combat. GSIV made a lot of leaps forward in making multiple weapon types and training paths viable. Ambushing changed from a certain death or complete whiff scenario to almost always hitting, but not necessarily getting the kill every time (but at least you almost always stun/leg so the target can't respond as well as they did in GSIII). We would like to improve the stealth system, but it is not required to make Rogues a successful class. In fact, Rogues currently are a successful class. They're consistently one of the two most played professions in the game (the other being Wizard). Rogues don't need a massive overhaul as they don't have viability problems. That is, it's possible to hunt at any given level range and to do so with a variety of options.

Even though Rogues aren't in need of a completely redone stealth or any other kind of system, that isn't to say we wouldn't like to see some solid updates to improve the class (or squares in general). There are many of these which we have planned, that work within the current system. Here's a taste of what we have planned:

- Reevaluate the resistances and immunities creatures have against a number of CMANs. There are too many creatures with resistances and immunities to make many CMANs worthwhile. How about we watch this number dwindle?

- Reevaluate some CMAN CMP costs. Some active offensive CMANs will have their CMP costs reduced so they can be more accessible.

- Introduce a number of new CMANs. Over the years, I've been stockpiling a list of CMAN ideas that I've had and that I've seen proposed on these boards. I've already sent in this list for approval. We'll definitely be seeing some new CMANs coming your way.

- Evaluate the efficacy of some CMANs. I'm personally looking at ways to improve Silent Strike and StunManeuvers. Before I can do this, though, I need to look at development discussions held on this subject in the past to be able to understand the situation more fully. We'll see what the future brings here, but keep in mind there's no guarantee these will be changed.

- Revisit the lock/trap review. The purpose of the project was redesigning the layout of lock difficulties and the lockpicking formula to further emphasize actual training in the skills and to de-emphasize the 403 and 404 bonuses. I plan to pick up this project after the above CMAN changes have been completed.

Alright, that should do it for my first post as a member of the Rogue Team. I hope this gives you guys a good idea of what we consider the state of Rogues to be. If you have questions, post 'em!

= - GM Oscuro - =

Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team

[Fallen]

Bottom Line, you fucks just got lucky as all get out.

[Xiandrena]

Awesome news for rogues. That's great!

[Rolton-Sammich]

Evade mastery...

So far, in his tenure as Rogue Guru, Oscuro is averaging one awesome release every five minutes.

[Fallen]

Don't host a parade yet, Rogues in Plate saw nothing from Evade Mastery.

[TheRoseLady]

Bottom Line, you fucks just got lucky as all get out.

Is this the part where CRB shows up and starts crying over the state of Sorcery?

[Allereli]

nothing about groups and ambushing?

[Stanley Burrell]

Don't host a parade yet, Rogues in Plate saw nothing from Evade Mastery.

Rogues don't wear plate, and if they do, those armor training points are letting them fix up their plate with some serious rank 5 hiding fittings. Independent of CMANs, mind you.

[Durgrimst]

If you are wearing plate and hiding.....

grow some balls

[AMUSED1]

Don't host a parade yet, Rogues in Plate saw nothing from Evade Mastery.

I wouldn't say nothing, unless you consider 1% per a rank nothing.

[Fallen]

I wouldn't say nothing, unless you consider 1% per a rank nothing.

I thought the end result would be 0. Is it 1%?

[Stanley Burrell]

PEMDAS.

[Fallen]

PEMDAS.

Hey, I may be an ignorant fuck that's terrible at math, but..wait, what was I saying?

[AMUSED1]

(1 + 2*(5 - Armor Group))%

So (1 + 2*(5 - 5)) is (1 + 2*0) is (1 + 0)

[Stanley Burrell]

I thought the end result would be 0. Is it 1%?

(1 + 2*(5 - Armor Group))%

Plate:

(1 + 2*[5 - 5])%

(1 + 0)%

1 * % The percent sign is a variable with 1, 2, or 3 hardwired multiplicatively.

1 * 1 (rank) = 1%

1 * 2 (ranks) = 2%

1 * 3 (ranks) = 3%

[thefarmer]

Don't host a parade yet, Rogues in Plate saw nothing from Evade Mastery.

Rogues in plate shouldn't see the main benefits to any change, honestly. The more advantages rogues get that lighter armors have over plate the better.

[Gan]

Having Oscuro on our (rogue) team is FUCKING AWESOME!!!111

I hope this endeavor does not spread him too thin.

[Fallen]

He dropped the COL/Voln review, and is stepping away from the Empath/Cleric team to an extent, so it shouldn't.

[Allereli]

My gift to the rogues:

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d26/vankrasn/Conspiracy.jpg

[Kitsun]

Anyone else find it amusing that Gredeng is still bitching? The profession can hunt from 0 to 100 in multiple hunting styles, has some of the lowest training costs, have CMANs, a functional guild, is a square class that can reasonably push in spells, can locksmith and he wants an entire profession rewrite.

[droit]

Amusing? Yes. Surprising? No.

[TheLastShamurai]

I don't find anything he says amusing actually. And he is worse than Em with the [grin]s, which are from what I can tell usually meant to be condescending to the person he is schooling. And I say schooling because it's impossible to have a conversation with him in which he is not correct on all accounts.

Between him and Krakii I'm not really sure who is more absurd. I'm leaning towards Krakii just because of his ridiculous posting style.

EDIT: What I did find amusing though is that after all the bitching he does over getting a capped hunting ground in the Landing because its his home and where he RPs, he then goes on to say that his RP consists of sitting on the Porch and waiting around. Yeah, great reason to stay in the Landing.

[The Ponzzz]

Man, Oscuro becoming the rogue guru is the best news ever!

[Fallen]

>>This is the only thing that would concern me. I agree that rogue's shouldnt be able to kill multiple targets quickly or fight off a whole swarm. I do feel that rogues should be able to pick off or 'assassinate' a single target in a swarm (and with precision) however, and still be crafty enough to find a way to escape or evade the scence or the danger the swarm presents. This to me sounds like it fits the status quo of rogish abilities, yes? Of course it would have to be balanced in a way where you either cannot stay in the swarming room long or be limited to where you cannot use it back to back to thin out an entire swarm. Implement something like this and you are the man! ;)

It's sounds to me like you're describing Silent Strike. ;) This is why I want to look into that maneuver specifically, so I can see if there's anything I can do to make it more useful and achieve exactly the purpose you described.

= - GM Oscuro - =

[Fallen]

>>Without a doubt, my next 24 CM ranks will go here (pending releases I guess). Thanks.

Feel free to. Chances are good there won't be any other new CMANs before the May 20th fixskills. My next Rogue project is the CMAN resistance/immunity review.

= - GM Oscuro - =

[Fallen]

>>I'll get more entertainment value out of that fifth rank of coup, I think.

And perhaps even more, as Coup de Grace is high on the priority list for the resistance/immunity review.

= - GM Oscuro - =

[Fallen]

>>I believe that's exactly what I suggested with bushwhack. To which Oscuro said he didn't see the need for a stealth overhaul. Perhaps he doesn't view it as a stealth overhaul, but I think it more likely that it won't be happening.

These no reason why things like this can't be designed within the extant system without having to completely redo the game. If it takes 8 hours to code Bushwhack (or some other similar offensive ambush attack) as a CMAN vs taking over 500 hours to redo the entire ambushing system, I think the former is highly preferred. Especially when the current system doesn't have any glaring flaws. And if it did, we could review that. If your car simply needs an oil change, you don't throw it away and buy a new car - you change its oil.

= - GM Oscuro - =

[Fallen]

>>Is there an official reason for this other than "it's currently working as intended"? I thought I saw you mention that you've got some back-reading to do (or current reading because back-reading can be freakin overwhelming) to see the general state of rogues, so you might not know all what's been going on here. This issue has been pretty much coming up non-stop since the nerf amongst the most of us and I believe there's quite a few rogues who are interested in specific answers to this issue.

First let me say that the backreading I'm intending is just the original designs behind CMANs done at and just after the GSIV conversion. I've stayed up to date with Rogue proceedings since I came on staff in 2006. So I wouldn't say I'm too far behind. ;)

I believe this was addressed at the time of the CMAN Review a couple years back, but I'll repost what the team decided (and I agree with). There were a few reasons why Shadow Mastery had the cooldown added. First and foremost, the reason why it was given a cooldown was it was never meant to be a static bonus. If it was, it would have been a passive CMAN rather than an active CMAN. The stamina cost was meant to mitigate it to the point that it would only be active some of the time. What was being observed, however, was people were running it constantly, giving a static bonus which was undesired. The cooldown with the increased activation cost was meant to give the option of having the skill run consistently, albeit for a high price, vs just choosing to only run the maneuver when the cooldown wasn't in play to have it at a reasonable cost (which was the original intent - occasional use).

Additionally, Shadow Mastery (and a couple other CMANs like Surge of Strength) were far surpassing other CMANs in their use. This indicated that they were being considered "required" training by many players. This was also never the intent of the CMAN system. CMANs are meant to be a diversifying factor between players. This is why nearly every CMAN in the review saw an increase in its efficacy, except the few that were already well established as being popular.

I don't intend to re-examine the cooldown of Shadow Mastery since the design intentions of the cooldown still apply. If that changes, I will re-examine the cooldown.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team

[Fallen]

>>Easy to fix. Make it aimable and reduce the stamina cost. But that's just the cman "patch" way to do what I've suggested recently, and multiple people have suggested for years. It should be a part of ambush the same way that sniping is a part of ranged. I suppose I'd have no cause for complaint if I were a bow-using sniping rogue.

The benefit of sniping is that it keeps you hidden. It, however, has none of the benefits of ambushing (DS pushdown, increased critical), so it needed something else to make it useful. Otherwise, what would be the point of shooting arrows from hiding?

Silent Strike maintains the benefits of an ambush and grants the benefit of sniping (remaining hidden) for a CMP investment and a stamina cost. The premise is correct, in my opinion. It may need a little extra boost, though, which is what I'm investigating.

>>Yeah, what I described was very similar to silenet strike, except I threw in the word precision. Silent strike is nice, but it lacks a true roguish feel since it cannot be aimed (and it also costs too much stamina). I'm very excited to hear your looking into improving the skill! When you get around to it, I'd like to her your ideas for improving it. Some ideas of my own would be to allow it to be aimed, every 30 seconds or so, and for the unaimed strike, lower the stamina cost to maybe 10 stamina per attack.

I'll be more specific if I get something approved, but I can tell you that I don't have a problem with the 25 stamina cost. We don't want Rogues constantly in hiding, otherwise they would almost never be in danger. A solid chance for them to remain in hiding every couple swings, however, is something that's totally reasonable, and is what Silent Strike achieves.

= - GM Oscuro - =

[Fallen]

I sgguested that the Stalking RT reduction be separated from SM and given its own passive CMAN. Adjust the cost for SM, and call it a day. Not a new idea by any stretch of the imagination, but IMO a good one.

[Donquix]

>>This is the only thing that would concern me. I agree that rogue's shouldnt be able to kill multiple targets quickly or fight off a whole swarm. I do feel that rogues should be able to pick off or 'assassinate' a single target in a swarm (and with precision) however, and still be crafty enough to find a way to escape or evade the scence or the danger the swarm presents. This to me sounds like it fits the status quo of rogish abilities, yes? Of course it would have to be balanced in a way where you either cannot stay in the swarming room long or be limited to where you cannot use it back to back to thin out an entire swarm. Implement something like this and you are the man! ;)

It's sounds to me like you're describing Silent Strike. ;) This is why I want to look into that maneuver specifically, so I can see if there's anything I can do to make it more useful and achieve exactly the purpose you described.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Ahh...the good ole rogue mentality. "we should be able to 1v1 anyone, because we're sneaky and high damage dealers and such. Also, we should be able to kill anyone in the middle of 500 enemies and then escape...cause we're all sneaky!"

Works fine for gemstone, but it's a hilarious attitude in more CvC/PvP focused games.


>>I'll get more entertainment value out of that fifth rank of coup, I think.

And perhaps even more, as Coup de Grace is high on the priority list for the resistance/immunity review.

= - GM Oscuro - =

woo! Collateral buff for me.

[DaCapn]

I have to agree with him that OHE ambushing is pretty weak (really limiting). I went ewave/sniper and ewave/THW/ambush and it solved that. I suppose I could have gone OHE/ewave but either way... it's barely different.

All in all, I don't think much NEEDS adjusting rogue-wise. Fracture smastery into 2 CMs, tune armor incentives more, and give a look into some CMs (compare sweep with "ambush left leg"), and of course group hiding. Sometimes I wish they'd cut some of the fat (like subdue) but I mean, my wizard has 502 which lacks a purpose, merit, and function.

I think stun maneuvers are fine and I play a halfling (-5 DIS), especially when used properly (the stance onces are useful too). If it sucks for elves, I don't know what to tell you, races with a -15 stat adjustment suck at certain things.

Anyone else find it funny that people were asking for evasion mastery for a WHILE to no effect. Then we see it implemented in his first day as rogue guru?

Evarin, if Oscuro still has it in for you, could you stop posting in there, or maybe just post some BS stuff that we don't want to see implemented?

[Fallen]

Evarin, if Oscuro still has it in for you, could you stop posting in there, or maybe just post some BS stuff that we don't want to see implemented?

Shit should be just fine between us now, especially as he is no longer in charge of Voln/COL. That being said, he is still in charge of a few systems which concern me, so I will be posting in that folder from time to time.

[thefarmer]

All in all, I don't think much NEEDS adjusting rogue-wise.

Didn't you make a thread not too long ago saying rogues need lots of work 'cause they suxor?

Or was that somebody else?

[Rolton-Sammich]

Anyone else find it funny that people were asking for evasion mastery for a WHILE to no effect. Then we see it implemented in his first day as rogue guru?
I'm betting that Ildran put that together and left it ready to go as a present... to let his (then-unknown) successor play Santa.

[Fallen]

>>Any chance that the CMAN FINESE maneuver that has been discussed on these boards will ever see the soft glow of our monitors?

>>The idea behind the CMAN was that a Rogue could substitute his or her DEXTERITY bonus for the Strength bonus in their AS calculations if they used certain "light" weapons (i.e., rapier, dagger, short short, etc.).

Like I said, I've already proposed a long list of maneuvers. As for this incarnation of Finesse, I wouldn't find it likely. A skill like this would be a static +30 (!) bonus to AS for halflings and be absolutely useless to races like giants. I'm not opposed to giving halflings or other high dexterity classes the benefit with a skill, but nearly anyone who trains it should be getting some use. We'll see if an alternate version ever comes to fruition.

= - GM Oscuro - =

[StrayRogue]

I sgguested that the Stalking RT reduction be separated from SM and given its own passive CMAN. Adjust the cost for SM, and call it a day. Not a new idea by any stretch of the imagination, but IMO a good one.

I like this idea. Personally I think it would be cool if more skills were like AU or CM whereby you could choose to train in other minor abilities. Like Stalking and Hiding could open up a variety of smaller stealth skills such as allowing you to get more bang-for-buck on lighter amour, reducing stalking/hiding rt, allowing you to search while hidden etc. Basically something to add a bit of variety to training akin to the Magic Lores.

[Fallen]

I like this idea. Personally I think it would be cool if more skills were like AU or CM whereby you could choose to train in other minor abilities. Like Stalking and Hiding could open up a variety of smaller stealth skills such as allowing you to get more bang-for-buck on lighter amour, reducing stalking/hiding rt, allowing you to search while hidden etc. Basically something to add a bit of variety to training akin to the Magic Lores.

Agreed, but like AU and CM, to get the most from said abilities, you would have to go beyond what is normal for most rogues/rangers/etc to get the best benefits. If it were comparable to AU, where you need to be fully 2xed to get the highest level of bonus, and 2x+ is just gravy, then I think it would be a good deal for everyone involved.

You could attach the RT reduction to maximize at fully 2xed hiding, then add some cool stuff that can only be realized with 2.X training. OR, you have a similar system to AU, but only rogues could actively be trained in more than 1 benefit at a time because of point costs (They are the only 3x S/H profession, yes?)

[Fallen]

>>Well.. Warrior prime stats are Constitution and Strength neither of which imply the profession should dodge that well. One could also make the argument that despite you not putting Rangers very high on the dodge list, they should be higher than, say warriors who have access to Emastery.

This is true, but we're also giving consideration to Warriors being the epitome of physical combat masters. Even though most Warriors won't get use out of the maneuver, since most elect to wear plate, it is available as an option and it also helps alternate training paths become just a little bit more viable. Ever wanted a fencing master flavored Warrior rather than a brutish tank? Now it's more likely to work than before.

= - GM Oscuro - =

[ElvenFury]

You know, I was really hoping that Oscuro was going to make Voln into his next love-baby. God, does that society need some help. :-(

[Fallen]

>>Awesome addition! Thanks to Oscuro and who ever else might of been responsible creating this cman and allowing rogues to learn it. Those lighter armors are starting to look much more attractive...yet they still need some more incentive. We're getting there though!

Warden came up with the idea, I coded it, Strathspey QCed it. Its original incarnation was a Monk only maneuver with a flat bonus of 5% per rank, but it was decided to further add incentive to lighter armors for Rogues.

If anyone has more ideas to make lighter armors more attractive, I'm listening. We don't want to take away the option of plate for Rogues, but we definitely want there to be a tangible opportunity cost.

= - GM Oscuro - =

[Allereli]

EDIT: What I did find amusing though is that after all the bitching he does over getting a capped hunting ground in the Landing because its his home and where he RPs, he then goes on to say that his RP consists of sitting on the Porch and waiting around. Yeah, great reason to stay in the Landing.

yeah, telling him to open a warcamp, or that the rift will be getting a rewrite was no good. He just wants to sit on the porch because that's where the oldies sat during the "good ole days," there's no reason to sit there anymore. He doesn't even socialize with the town, and no one who doesn't read the boards knows who he is.

[Fallen]

>>Oscuro, have you put any consideration into uncoupling hiding and grouping in some fashion? That would go a long way towards improving fun and happiness.

Yes, I have - long before I even came on staff. Unfortunately, the problem is deeply entrenched and would require revising a significant portion of 18 years worth of code. It's something I'd like to see happen eventually, but it's not going to be one of the first things tackled simply because so much more could be done in that time first.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team

[Danical]

You won't see hiding/group changes for years, if ever.

[DaCapn]

Didn't you make a thread not too long ago saying rogues need lots of work 'cause they suxor?

Or was that somebody else?

I'm pretty sure I stated and re-stated (several times) that the intent of that thread was "rogue dev fantasy" more than "don't rogues suck?" Though I did say that the reason for making the thread was because I feel like rogues have less versatility in a given training plan than most professions seem to (particularly when it comes to hunting options). I've fixed this problem for myself by going ewave/archer. I don't think it should have had to come to that.


Evarin, if Oscuro still has it in for you, could you stop posting in there, or maybe just post some BS stuff that we don't want to see implemented?

Hopefully you realize I was just having fun with you. Anyway, it is helpful to have support for the smastery-split idea in there.

[Endlin]

Ahh...the good ole rogue mentality. "we should be able to 1v1 anyone, because we're sneaky and high damage dealers and such. Also, we should be able to kill anyone in the middle of 500 enemies and then escape...cause we're all sneaky!"

Works fine for gemstone, but it's a hilarious attitude in more CvC/PvP focused games.



woo! Collateral buff for me.

.... Fail to see the problem with this mentality. And what other games have to do with rogues in GS.

[Donquix]

I never said they did... in fact i specifically stated otherwise. And thank you for proving the point.

[Endlin]

in fact i specifically stated otherwise.

Oh....


Was it in this thread?

[Donquix]

Oh....


Was it in this thread?

Pillage BEFORE you burn.
Wax on THEN wax off.
Read posts THEN e-rage.


Works fine for gemstone, but it's a hilarious attitude in more CvC/PvP focused games.

[Endlin]

grrr.. i'm raging alright!

[thefarmer]

Number 4 for google image search for 'raging!'


http://weblogs.newsday.com/entertainment/tv/blog/raging%20rudolph.jpg

[Endlin]

and number 20
http://coalitionofwomen.org/home/english/organizations/wilpf/raging_grannies.jpg

[Warriorbird]

Ahh...the good ole rogue mentality. "we should be able to 1v1 anyone, because we're sneaky and high damage dealers and such. Also, we should be able to kill anyone in the middle of 500 enemies and then escape...cause we're all sneaky!"

Works fine for gemstone, but it's a hilarious attitude in more CvC/PvP focused games.


But, but, I should be able to do anything in one blow as a Rogue!

This was my new character concept!

http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/thumb/c/c8/Solid_snake_chiropractor.jpg/409px-Solid_snake_chiropractor.jpg


In all honesty...I've never felt the heady stealth game rush of being a Rogue in GS as much as I have in other games or text games. I think it's because, as things stand, they ARE balanced. If plate gets tougher for Rogues hiding would need to be better.

[Endlin]

But, but, I should be able to do anything in one blow as a Rogue!

This was my new character concept!

http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/thumb/c/c8/Solid_snake_chiropractor.jpg/409px-Solid_snake_chiropractor.jpg


In all honesty...I've never felt the heady stealth game rush of being a Rogue in GS as much as I have in other games or text games. I think it's because, as things stand, they ARE balanced. If plate gets tougher for Rogues hiding would need to be better.

I had to quote this so I could read it later.. I'm busy e-raging!




Okay.. Yeah. Thats pretty much how I feel. Hiding is like almost any other part of this game. Sometimes you're like "shit.. I'm sure glad I'm a rogue and I can hide." Other times you're like "Hiding is useless shit.. why was I fuckin rogue?" Like anything else.. sometimes it saves your ass.. Sometimes it doesn't do shit.

I'm kind of glad it was stated that they don't want to force rogues out of plate. The fact that its expensive as fuck for a supposedly square class is already kind of deterring enough, but at least now there are some fathomable benefits for not going that route.

And "rogues can learn to pick!" is a retarded argument. Warriors can learn to bash, and train to disarm boxes. Is it expensive? Yeah. But so is armor training for a rogue.

[Lord Orbstar]

Man..so much to decide now. I think I will decide to keep my fixskills when it is available.

I have a 95 half-elf rogue sniper (trained to 425 in plate armor) and a 56 human Rogue (currently wears AsG 17, TWC, but retraining to sword and board and 3x all lockpick and disarm trap to be an east tower whore).

The changes SIMU is making for light armor to be more appealing and these possible changes to the CMANs makes me want to put my 95 rogue in Armor Group 3 armors and train spells even more (say up to 430 and 103, or maybe even up to 435, or to 425 and 107). I would miss the plate armor mental defense bonus though...

The idea of a nasty rogue dodging, hiding, silent killing, and coup de grace'ing people is attractive. Truly an Assassin. Of course, if caught in the open, that assassin would be much more vulnerable than the current build of jumping out in a clatter of plate armor and shooting an arrow in their eye.

[DoctorUnne]

The only reason why I made a rogue was so I could have Thug as my title. As for my training plan though I basically just wanted to be a warrior except I suck at it since the training costs are higher. I don't even 3x dodge which I should.

[Rolton-Sammich]

The only reason why I made a rogue was so I could have Thug as my title. As for my training plan though I basically just wanted to be a warrior except I suck at it since the training costs are higher. I don't even 3x dodge which I should.
Real gangsta-ass thugs don't dodge for shit
'Cause real gangsta-ass thugs can't dodge fast

[Rolton-Sammich]

And "rogues can learn to pick!" is a retarded argument. Warriors can learn to bash, and train to disarm boxes. Is it expensive? Yeah. But so is armor training for a rogue.
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd72/suriyasiero/553px-Lol_que.jpg

[Lord Orbstar]

I know they dont dodge my pepper spray or nightstick real well, Mr. Sammich. ::Sigh:: such lovely memories.

[ViridianAsp]

Anyone else find it amusing that Gredeng is still bitching? The profession can hunt from 0 to 100 in multiple hunting styles, has some of the lowest training costs, have CMANs, a functional guild, is a square class that can reasonably push in spells, can locksmith and he wants an entire profession rewrite.

Grendeg is an idiot, I pretty much pass over anything he posts, I have a feeling I'm not the only one.


Oscuro might actually give me a reason to want to dust off my rogue and play her again.

[JustWondering]

I like what Grendeg says.... the first time he says it. Then it just gets old. Because he'll say it another 35 times in different ways. :club:

[DaCapn]

I like what Grendeg says.... the first time he says it. Then it just gets old. Because he'll say it another 35 times in different ways. :club:

People communicate differently. When I read some posts, I can see why he repeats himself. People seem to totally miss the point of some his posts but I think I communicate in a very similar way. I've had problems communicating with farmer before (typically single-point concise responses). There's frustration on both ends. The short-winded person goes "what the fuck is with this book? It only takes one line to get the point across." And the long-winded one goes "what the fuck is this thoughtless sound byte response to my reasoned and detailed discussion? Allow me to expound upon why I see things this way..."

Whether I actually agree with Grendeg or not... hit or miss. I noticed that, in general, he tends to be pretty dismissive and close-minded towards development solutions that aren't his.