To continue our discussion on the Dixie Chicks

[Parkbandit]

Did anyone see the Dixie Chicks on Prime Time Live?

Just to reiterate my point from the other board... they did lose a lot of $ due to her comment about the President. They think it was in the magnitude of 3,000,000 CDs.

THAT was my only point on the subject... if you want to use your public position to further your own 'cause'... make sure you are ready for the outcome of it.

[Tsa`ah]

That point is accepted, although it was not part of the topic.

I believe you alluded that the CD had dropped like a scud missile. That was far from correct.

3 million CDs? I'd have to research it but that's not even the point. That particular drop in projected sales can't really be solely due to comments made in concert. Not to mention that it really translates into a minor dollar amount to the performers. The brunt of that loss is taken by the label.

Again, that particular line of reasoning had little to do with anti-French sentiment and, even less to do with the topic as a whole, and the argument presented was full of inaccuracies.

[Gokkem]

Heh my girlfriend and I usually hold scarily similar views on most current events. However, this subject came up this weekend and I said something to the effect that I thought it was messed up for them to say what they said at the grammies (or wherever it was). Boy if looks could kill, I thought she was going to rip my head off. She was like 'Who the hell do you think you are? Freedom of speech, they can say what they want'. Well I'm not dumb, I know when to not push an issue with her so it was dropped.

My opinion? I thought their comments were inappropriate for the stage they were on. The word tacky comes to mind. But yes, I do understand freedom of speech and they had every RIGHT to say it...just like I have a right to tell my boss to piss off but it doesn't mean I'm going to tell him that.

Go ahead and tell me how wrong I am. I want to hear detailed opinions on exactly how people feel about what they said and when they said it.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
That point is accepted, although it was not part of the topic.

I believe you alluded that the CD had dropped like a scud missile. That was far from correct.

3 million CDs? I'd have to research it but that's not even the point. That particular drop in projected sales can't really be solely due to comments made in concert. Not to mention that it really translates into a minor dollar amount to the performers. The brunt of that loss is taken by the label.

Again, that particular line of reasoning had little to do with anti-French sentiment and, even less to do with the topic as a whole, and the argument presented was full of inaccuracies.

Actually... you are once again incorrect.

I suggested that the group the Dixie Chicks lost business due to the lead singers public opinions. You countered with the most recent Billboard Rankings. I gave you a Business 101 lesson in what those rankings really mean. Dixie Chicks went on Prime Time Live and it was said that they probably lost some 3 million CD sales.

I already dismissed your 'Oh the poor French' argument saying that they were self serving, money grubbers. Gee.. I wonder why they wish to continue to work the "Oil for Food" program... could it BE they could lose Billions if they don't?

[Parkbandit]

Oh, and you were the one that said the Dixie Chicks haven't lost any money over their comments. Gee.. weird how they were crying on National TV.. saying it's not about money.

Maybe things aren't as rosy in the Chicks camp as you thought perhaps?

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted Parkbandit
Actually... you are once again incorrect.


:lol:
How many straws can one grasp before there isn't a haystack left?




I suggested that the group the Dixie Chicks lost business due to the lead singers public opinions. You countered with the most recent Billboard Rankings. I gave you a Business 101 lesson in what those rankings really mean. Dixie Chicks went on Prime Time Live and it was said that they probably lost some 3 million CD sales.


No, you said that they dropped like a scud missile. I pointed out that you were incorrect. I pointed out the Billboard Rankings and how many months they have been listed. You alluded that Billboard ranks had nothing to do with sales. In fact they are ranked only by sales. Your statement was not supported by that particular market report.

Hopefully your business 101 lessons are not at the collegiate level. I don't think our economy could handle the impending ramifications in the years to come. The suggestion that market shares had nothing to do with the bank statement is far fetched. Were I your economics Prof, I would have beaten you senseless.

Now I have read the ABC manuscript, and I can't find anything about sales, projected sales, or anything about sales outside of short comments. Please do post a link that states otherwise. And do make it something from a source other than Snopes.

Now what baffles me about your figures, obviously pulled from the genius that is your marketing rectum, is how you interpreted their statement into the figure of 3 million cds.


"Home" was released 11-6-2002
"Home" has been in the top 50 for 34 weeks
"Home" has been in the top 10 country for 34 weeks. Over half of that at #1.
"Home" has sold over 6 million copies in just over 5 months. (That's 6x plat)
"Home" Slid 6 spots on the CC to #7 the week after 3-10. (Comment date)
"Home" was back at #1 on the CC chart two weeks later and I believe #29 on the top 200... Again up.
"Home" averaged 125,000 copies weekly prior to 3-10.
"Home" is currently averaging 71,000 per week. (admittedly a 43% drop)


Those are the facts. How in the hell do you get a 3 million loss? The damned thing had already sold over 4 million by 3-10. Are you suggesting 2 million CDs in 6-7 weeks is bad? Your numbers don't add up.

As far as my "Poor French" comments you alluded to ... What exactly were they?

There weren't any. My post and the thread were not about the poor French. It was about the ignorance of symbolic banning.

The point was, and still is, that renaming food items (that are not actually French) and disposing of French wine (that only makes up 10% of their actual export) is ignorant. To actually impose a boycott that they would feel financially we would have to start with our domestic industries. When it hits [our] pocket books, we lose spine.

You also touched on the oil market. You may be interested in knowing that the US embargo of Libyan oil is still in effect. Yet, we still purchase Libyan oil via US commercially held European branches. These branches (some in France) have likely purchased crude of the Iraqi nature as well. Where's that manhunt?

My business skills are not to be questioned by you. I answer to a man that is worth 8 billion, and he has yet to baulk at any of my customer-related analysis.

[Edited on 4-29-2003 by Tsa`ah]

[Edited on 4-29-2003 by Tsa`ah]

[Black Jesus]

They've got the right to say what they want, but people who don't like it also have a right to complain and try to force a boycott. Those of you who think the boycotters are wrong are just giving the Dixie Chicks a pass while condemning others for doing a very similar thing.

[Parkbandit]

As usual Tsa'ah, you only hear and interpret what you want to.

The sales of their CD DID fall after her comments. They were at #1, and were replaced by another artist. They came back to #1 later on. BUT, their position did fall in your oh so precious Billboard Top 40 ranking.

I'll go over this one more time... because obviously you didn't understand it the first time.

Billboard 40 ranks an artist's record vs other similar records out at the same time. Does this necessarily mean they are financially successful in this particular record? No way of knowing actually. Before this record came out, their label compiled a 'budget' for this particular project. It encompasses all top line revenue and all expenses for this project. Based on this 'budget', they will produce a Profit and Loss document.

I work in a business where we too look at market share reports (Which is exactly what the Billboard 40 is). This compares my business to other similar businesses in my 'market'. Last year I saw my market share INCREASE over my competitors to new record highs. I was #1 for 11 out of 12 months. #2 for the other month. If you only look at this particular report.. you would come to the assumption that I made money hand over fist last year and that it was the most successful year of my business ever.

The assumption would be indeed wrong. My business lost some $350,000 top line revenue when compared to my budgeted sales. We lost some $325,000 when comparing my business to the prior year.

As you can see, your assumption for the success of the Dixie Chick's latest albumn is severly flawed. You may wish to re-evaluate your self proclaimed grasp of basic business skills. I do hope your 8 billion dollar man doesn't find out.

Have a great day... I know I will :D

[Tsa`ah]

As usual Tsa'ah, you only hear and interpret what you want to.


Oh please, I've pointed out fact after fact. I have shown where you have made inaccurate and false statements, and still you choose to insert asinine assumption.



Billboard 40 ranks an artist's record vs other similar records out at the same time. Does this necessarily mean they are financially successful in this particular record? No way of knowing actually. Before this record came out, their label compiled a 'budget' for this particular project. It encompasses all top line revenue and all expenses for this project. Based on this 'budget', they will produce a Profit and Loss document.


You seem to post in a way that you know what each document states. In fact, before you railroaded the original topic, you seemed quite adamant that the bottom had dropped out of their sales. You seem to be lessening the severity of those statements as you continue your blind argument. Another 10 replies and I'm sure you will be more on track with the facts as they have already been presented.




I work in a business where we too look at market share reports (Which is exactly what the Billboard 40 is). This compares my business to other similar businesses in my 'market'. Last year I saw my market share INCREASE over my competitors to new record highs. I was #1 for 11 out of 12 months. #2 for the other month. If you only look at this particular report.. you would come to the assumption that I made money hand over fist last year and that it was the most successful year of my business ever.

The assumption would be indeed wrong. My business lost some $350,000 top line revenue when compared to my budgeted sales. We lost some $325,000 when comparing my business to the prior year.


I can't help it that the business you work for is poorly managed. That sort of growth is not normally coupled with that financial loss.

The privately held corporation I work for has doubled its size every three years for the past 12 years. The posted profits have grown accordingly.

With your views, I take it that this is not a normal thing.

Now again, I ask that you post links to support you arguments.

Where exactly do any of the band members or anyone else attached to the group mention a loss in sales to the tune of 3 million cds?

I have pointed out the continued success of the band despite boycotts. Do point out any non-snopes sources that specifically state otherwise.

Back up your facts man. You are starting to sound a bit ignorant.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
You seem to post in a way that you know what each document states. In fact, before you railroaded the original topic, you seemed quite adamant that the bottom had dropped out of their sales. You seem to be lessening the severity of those statements as you continue your blind argument. Another 10 replies and I'm sure you will be more on track with the facts as they have already been presented.


If you don't know the basics of simple reporting structure Tsa`ah.. I can't even debate you on this. A simple understanding is needed, and you have yet to prove you have that. The fact remains: The Billboard Top 40 is a Market Share report and not a financial report. Once you grasp that and understand that... we can continue. Until that time.. you are the one who is looking rather ignorant.

I can't help it that the business you work for is poorly managed. That sort of growth is not normally coupled with that financial loss.

The privately held corporation I work for has doubled its size every three years for the past 12 years. The posted profits have grown accordingly. .

Again... showing your ignorance. Since you have zero idea what business I manage, you automatically attribute the decline in business as poor management. You may wish to speak with my supervisor who actually gave me a most favorable review and raise last year.

<<Now again, I ask that you post links to support you arguments.

Where exactly do any of the band members or anyone else attached to the group mention a loss in sales to the tune of 3 million cds?>>

As I said... it was on the ABC News show I first discussed. Do I personally know for sure? No I do not. I can only go on what the program was discussing. But to believe that everything was better off since the remarks by the Dixie Chicks is.. ignorant.

[Warriorbird]

I agree with Parkbandit on the business loss. Now, on the matter of what they said? I wish they would've had the guts to stick to it without apology.

:saint:

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
I agree with Parkbandit on the business loss. Now, on the matter of what they said? I wish they would've had the guts to stick to it without apology.

:saint:

Their opinion is not what most folks were upset with.. it was the timing of her comments. We are on the brink of war and she is disrespecting the Commander in Chief.

If she said the same thing right now, it would be a page 10 sentence.

Like my mother always said, "There's a time and place for everything."

[Warriorbird]

And in America, one of the nice things is the fact that we have the right to express dissenting opinions without being shot for them. I think the anti Dixie Chicks sentiment was pretty ridiculous, considering some of the things that other folks said which were much further over the edge, and less well articulated. The war being impending made her comments timely. I just wish she'd stuck to them.

[Siefer]

I think they need to be dragged out into the street and hanged. This country needs to start setting examples. All of the sudden everyone and their mother is shitting all over Uncle Sam and I'm damn tired of it. People like those no talent wenches will be the death of this country.

[Warriorbird]

Darn freedom of expression thing. Darn freedom thing. Yah, we ought to ignore those. I mean, our country was obviously found on repression. Shoot the dissenters!

[Back]

Originally posted by Siefer.


I think they need to be dragged out into the street and hanged. This country needs to start setting examples. All of the sudden everyone and their mother is shitting all over Uncle Sam and I'm damn tired of it. People like those no talent wenches will be the death of this country.

Adbusters Magazine, No. 47 May/June 2003


Free to kill, free to pound beers, free to fuck anything in sight, free to kick ass and take names, free to roll over anything alive or dead in my honkin'-ass t-r-u-c-k. free to smack a child, free to own a dog and eat a fucking whopper... yeah, I'm free. Free to destroy, any day of the week. As long as I will violence, I'm in the clear. As soon as I want love and kindness, I'm stuck with nowhere to go but the nearest wall. - Andrew Smith

[Edited on 5-21-2003 by Backlash]

[Siefer]

The fact that they make millions of dollars for singing country music proves my point entirely.

[Warriorbird]

So...just because someone makes millions of dollars they should no longer have any freedom? Maybe you ought to consider moving to China or something. Sure don't sound American to me. Alternately I've heard that Iran has some lovely punishments for those who speak against the government.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
So...just because someone makes millions of dollars they should no longer have any freedom? Maybe you ought to consider moving to China or something. Sure don't sound American to me. Alternately I've heard that Iran has some lovely punishments for those who speak against the government.

To be honest with you.. I personally didn't care too much either way. I thought the comment was inapropriate and still do. They didn't lose any money from me because that is not my type of music. Their fan base is various.. but I believe country music followers to be pretty staunch pro-American type individuals. Probably more than any other major music genre. Her comments went against the bulk of their fan base.

It was an idiotic statement from a marketing and public image standpoint.

[Warriorbird]

There's a difference between pro-American and pro-Republican which a lot of people don't seem to get. I love America, but I think that the Republican party (slightly more often than the Democratic party) does some incredibly dumb things.

You ought to be able to seperate criticizing the actions of a President from being anti the country, but I suppose that's too much to ask a simple minded conservative.

[Siefer]

All democrats are idiots. History has proven this. They've gotten more people killed and made more people around the world hate us. That's what they are here for. To make us look bad on the world stage.

[Warriorbird]

Well, if that was some attempted insult at me, it's kinda a dubious one, as I'm a registered Independent...but...as a general note, investigating history you can see a lot of stupid things done by both parties.

Least the Democrats don't try to deny American freedom like you. Part of what makes this country great is people having the right to believe and say (to a large extent) what they want to.

If you want a dictatorship, move.

[Siefer]

When this country is dead and buried, the people of the future are going to look back and mock us for not taking care of the problems we can obviously solve today. Each day I am more convinced that I will see this country's end during my lifetime.

[Gokkem]

I think political parties are a joke. It's all about money, who you know, and what party you are in. In congress, we have a policy to 'vote for my pork and I vote for yours'. In elections, it's typically the one with the most money who wins. When it comes to voting for, or backing a candidate, more often than not it's because of their political party, not their views on the issues. It sucks when people get elected just because they have the most money, the most friends, and because of the party they are in. Not because they make the best leader.

[Warriorbird]

"When this country is dead and buried, the people of the future are going to look back and mock us for not taking care of the problems we can obviously solve today. Each day I am more convinced that I will see this country's end during my lifetime."

And if it is, people like you will send you there. I could care less if you're conservative or not. I could care less whether Al Gore is a gutless liberal or not. I just like the fact that if I want to tell both you and or Mr. Gore off, I have the right to. If I want to say that I disagree with the President's actions, I have the right to, without being shot or something. You don't prize that, you think "Something must be done!" to kill or silence all that disagree with you, well, it won't be people like me that they'll be looking back and criticizing.

I love America.

Suck it up. Let all the kids play in the sandbox rather than going home because they don't all want to play He-Man.

Seriously, I doubt I'm gonna change any person's thinking off a few words, but take a serious look at yerself. You always have the ability to reevaluate things.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Their fan base is various.. but I believe country music followers to be pretty staunch pro-American type individuals. Probably more than any other major music genre. Her comments went against the bulk of their fan base.

It was an idiotic statement from a marketing and public image standpoint.


I wasn't aware that an artist was required to change a political view in order to be accepted by a fan base. The whole idea is ridiculous.

Fans of the music are just that, fans. The artist is under no obligation at all to change their views.


Originally posted by Siefer
When this country is dead and buried, the people of the future are going to look back and mock us for not taking care of the problems we can obviously solve today. Each day I am more convinced that I will see this country's end during my lifetime.[/i]

I don't see how the expression of our first amendment right is a problem. I do see the urge to suppress that right as a problem.

If the end of this nation comes in our lifetime, it will be at the hands of the people who support the suppression of Amendments and Constitution as a whole.

[Edited on 5-22-2003 by Tsa`ah]

[Siefer]

No no no my friend it is the laid back not a care in the world people like you who will drive this country into the ground. You abuse the freedoms of this country and probably wouldn't have the balls to defend it. I'll stake my life on that claim. Just keep up your anti government bullshit like the rest of the drug using teen agers and think you're cool.

[Warriorbird]

So, disagreeing with the president is "abusing" the country's freedoms? Damn, here I thought I lived in a democracy! I strongly supported what we did in Afghanistan. What we're doing in Iraq is ridiculous in my mind. But gosh, gee, we all have to believe just like you to be Americans, or we're "drug addled teenagers."

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Siefer
No no no my friend it is the laid back not a care in the world people like you who will drive this country into the ground. You abuse the freedoms of this country and probably wouldn't have the balls to defend it. I'll stake my life on that claim. Just keep up your anti government bullshit like the rest of the drug using teen agers and think you're cool.

So when should we expect to read of your suicide?

I have a few choices in firearms you could borrow if you want to go that way. If not, I would suggest arsnic. It's pretty fast and not too messy.

I haven't been a teenager since 94, I haven't used a drug since 93.

In January of 91 I was rejected for military service due to being asthmatic. Oh gee, imagine that, I tried to enlist during Desert Storm. Idiot.

I've never been anti-government, I have been against any attempt to quash my rights as a citizen. I am fully against ignorant "patriots" who feel that speaking out against administation is "un-american".

Without the voice of opposition, any nation will slide into a totalitarian dictatorship in very short order. I understand the lessons of history, it's just sad that so many were in the bathroom "blazing" up when that particular segment was introduced.

I didn't care about being cool after the 7th grade, why should I care about your particular idea of "cool"?

Do me a favor, pick up some word history texts and try to comprehend the big words.

[Ilvane]

I think the big stink being made by those who are pro war over the Dixie Chicks is a bit morose if you ask me.

Don't these people have more important things to do, like polish their M16's and go hunting?:grin:

The thing that bothers me most, as someone who objected to the war as it was put forward--is that we had no choice on who our president was--we had no choice on diplomatic actions in the gulf..and we had no choice on war with Iraq. Nevermind that these huge arsenauls of weapons of mass destruction haven't been found. I find it ludicrous that the war is justified as going to war to free the people from Sadaam Hussein, and give them freedom. You see, we have freed them from him like we have freed the world of Osama BinLaden, who is still masterminding attacks agains the US.

We have angered people all over the world with our stands, we've made enemies out of long time Allies..and yet when Natalie Maines says she's ashamed of the President, there is something wrong with her saying something about how she feels??

Isn't the freedom the president is expressing as his reason of going to war with Iraq, the very freedom we are supposed to have here?

I love my country, I support the troops over there in Iraq and Afganistan. I would have supported the war with Iraq if we really had exhausted all diplomatic means first. I think we should have had our allies with us, rather than going at it alone. When the time comes when we need the help of the allies in the future, are they going to be so willing?

Does being anti-war make me love my country any less? I don't think so.

--A

[Edited on 5-26-2003 by Ilvane]

[Back]

No, it dosen't Don't feel bad for wanting peace.

And thats where we are right now... Americans hate. Hate them, those other people, those who oppose us, those with different views, those who don't conform...

I admit to hating also. Its sad but true. I hate ignorance. Sadder yet, I've got a lot to hate...

We live in angry times.

[Edited on 5-27-2003 by Backlash]

[Parkbandit]

You know.. I keep hearing how we didn't exhaust all diplomatic efforts before engaging Iraq.

Please tell us what more could and should have taken place. And please remember... unlike Gemstone III... this isn't a fantasy world where everything happens perfectly.

[imported_Kranar]

<< You know.. I keep hearing how we didn't exhaust all diplomatic efforts before engaging Iraq >>

Diplomatic options to do what? The Defense Department now admits that the reason no weapons were found could be because no weapons existed.

How do you find something that doesn't exist? By bombing the hell out of the suspect?

Hasn't worked so far... keep trying fellas.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Kranar
<< You know.. I keep hearing how we didn't exhaust all diplomatic efforts before engaging Iraq >>

Diplomatic options to do what? The Defense Department now admits that the reason no weapons were found could be because no weapons existed.

How do you find something that doesn't exist? By bombing the hell out of the suspect?

Hasn't worked so far... keep trying fellas.

You mispoke when you used the past tense of the word 'exist' Kranar. It's been very well documented by even countries like France and Canada that the WMD did exist in Iraq. The Kurds and Iran can also attest that they have been used in the past.

Again... since you seem to have all the answers... how would you have dealt with Iraq's defiance over the past 12 years? Another UN resolution? Stop the Oil for Food program? Another round of economic sanctions? Just let them alone to do as they please?

Let's hear your plan Kranar. Let's hear your plan for peace in the middle east without any war or threat of one.

[Warriorbird]

As though going to war will somehow solve it.

[Red Devil]

Parkbandit do you have nothing better to do then whine about stuff?:?: get a hobby man

[imported_Kranar]

<< You mispoke when you used the past tense of the word 'exist' Kranar. >>

I didn't mispeak anything. Reread the post and try and grasp it in its entirety. Only then can you understand what the context of the word "existed" is.

<< Again... since you seem to have all the answers... how would you have dealt with Iraq's defiance over the past 12 years? >>

What defiance? Read the news... the Secretary of Defence has just admitted that Iraq may have destroyed their WMD before the war started. Incase you still don't understand, weapons destroyed means non-defiance.

If the inspectors were allowed to do their jobs without the U.S. forcing them out of the country under penalty of being a casualty of war, then you could have come to the same conclusion without killing thousands of innocent lives.

<< this isn't a fantasy world where everything happens perfectly. >>

Maybe you should do as you preach. It isn't a fantasy world, and real human beings are being killed because of this extreme arrogance being displayed. Perhaps that truth will come to you one day, and you'll see war not as being some game that is deployed at ones leisure, but a travesty that displays the worst in human nature.

It's unfortunate the comfort of our own homes can blind us from that truth. How fortunate for us to not have to experience that horror day after day for years and years. That, Parkbandit, is the only fantasy.

<< Let's hear your plan Kranar. Let's hear your plan for peace in the middle east without any war or threat of one. >>

That question is as stupid as me asking you what YOUR plan for peace is using, of all things, WAR! Let's hear YOU plan for peace with the use of war.

"Yeah man, if you bomb em hard enough, peace is bound to pop up sometime, man."

Atleast without war, you're not killing innocent lives and inciting hate towards your country for decades to come.

[Edited on 5-30-2003 by Kranar]

My opinion?

Country Music Sucks.

Anti-Bush Anything Rocks.

http://toofargone.homestead.com/files/bushgir.swf

And if I hear one more thing about how I'm breaking the law by not signing up for Selective Services, I'm going to burn a flag.

- --[ Kage ]-- -

[Parkbandit]

Unfortunately Kranar... without the threat of war or armed conflict.. your "happy go lucky, nothing can harm me" little world you would live in would not be possible. For 12 years, Iraq had every single opportunity to avoid war... yet chose non-compliance with the rest of the world.

And I'm not asking for an entire peace plan from you for the whole world to live in forever.. I'm just asking what you would do if you were President Bush 6 months ago.

[draconis nematoda]

Originally posted by Demon Lord Kage
And if I hear one more thing about how I'm breaking the law by not signing up for Selective Services, I'm going to burn a flag.

- --[ Kage ]-- -

If you try this, make sure you do it in front of me or another vetran, so we can throw a gallon of gasoline on you when you light the match.

Des

[Warriorbird]

"do if you were President Bush 6 months ago.
"

Probably listen to Paul Wolfowitz and make up some excuse to invade Iraq.

What defiance? Read the news... the Secretary of Defence has just admitted that Iraq may have destroyed their WMD before the war started. Incase you still don't understand, weapons destroyed means non-defiance.

If the inspectors were allowed to do their jobs without the U.S. forcing them out of the country under penalty of being a casualty of war, then you could have come to the same conclusion without killing thousands of innocent lives.



Not like Iraq had ever kicked out weapons inspectors or lied to, deceived, and manipulated the UN for a dozen years.

That would be too much of a stretch of reality. Lol

Of course its a shame Bush was so quick to go to war. Nevermind those fresh mass graves we found, they're inconsequential. Who knows, 20-30 years and he just might have died on his own!

I mean isn't that preferrable then having the blood of a few hundred people on our hands with the only benefeit being the freedom of millions.

[Caels]

I was in the Army while all this was going on. I didn't want to go to war, but I did, and I didn't think that President Bush was doing the right thing when he started his campaign in Iraq either.

Ultimately it is his call, and while I may not agree with it, I do support it. The U.S. has to play Big Brother to most of the third-world even though they hate us as they do.

I've been to Afghanistan, Germany and Korea and I can tell you first hand that there is no other place like the U.S. and I can understand why the underdeveloped countries would hate us. All I can do about it is defend what we have and hope that one day things will be better for everyone.

[Edited on 6-22-2003 by Caels]