Question for educated Gemstoners

[Gustamantis]

I dunno if this is the place to ask or not, but here goes...

Since I play a wizard, I often will look at characters (specifically wizards) that are for sale, to look at their skills/stats/spells/etc... just to see what differences there may or may not be. My wizard is a bit different than most people's and that's all well and good, but the thing I notice is that people tend to be 1x trained in physical training, beyond maxing their HP. I stopped at 17 ranks of physical training because I couldn't add anymore hit points, and I don't think it's ever done me any harm, maybe I just don't regen HP at the same rate, but I certainly don't find myself bleeding to death either. Is there some other reason for this besides regen of HP?

Also, if someone knows, I've always wondered just how much perception, swimming, and climbing I need ultimately.

Here are my skills through Level 52, I'd love to hear critiques, or ideas, with the fixskills coming up, perhaps there's something I shouldn't be doing that I am, or should be doing that I'm not. Thanks in advance for any and all input.

Armor Use..........................| 40 8
Combat Maneuvers..............| 50 10
Physical Fitness..................| 78 17
Arcane Symbols..................| 153 53
Magic Item Use...................| 153 53
Spell Aiming........................| 213 113 (108 w/o adv. guild badge)
Harness Power....................| 208 108
Elemental Mana Control. .......| 153 53
Spirit Mana Control...............| 50 10
Elemental Lore - Air..............| 102 24
Elemental Lore - Earth...........| 70 15
Elemental Lore - Fire.............| 66 14
Perception..........................| 108 26
Climbing.............................| 108 26
Swimming...........................| 108 26
Spell Lists
Major Elemental....................| 53
Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 33
Spell Lists
Wizard................................| 32

[Mtenda]

The PT and perception help defend against CMANS. I'd probably stick to one lore until the elemental lore reviews are done. Either fire or air is good.

[Latrinsorm]

PF allegedly helps in defending some maneuvers. I don't remember if anyone ever proved it did or not.

I'd aim for 50 ranks in perception, climbing, and swimming by cap, and depending on which cap hunting area you like get climbing or swimming to 100. Perception is also a generally handy thing, I'd want that to at least 100 eventually. You can definitely get by with less, but I find it a huge pain in the ass to be on the edge of succeeding terrain checks. YMMV.

[thefarmer]

Pure get 1x HP at cap for the Cman points for defensive use, and for a fractional help with maneuver defense. That's it.

[thefarmer]

PF allegedly helps in defending some maneuvers. I don't remember if anyone ever proved it did or not.

Some staff members have posted that it does in some folders that I forgot to save.

[droit]

I don't know of any player testing into PF's effect on maneuvers, but this is a quote by Mestys taken from a saved post about the bowels.


>Lastly, what exactly helps in dodging stone fist? It doesn't seem to be physical skills (since I get hit every time), and yet it doesn't seem to be magical skills (since casters get hit almost every time). -Grendeg

The Illoke creatures' Stone Fist spell is primarily based around the standard maneuver roll. Spells such as Mobility (618), Prayer (313), and Dauntless (1606) will benefit you. Ranks in Combat Maneuvers, Perception, and Physical Fitness will also be of assistance. The Dexterity and Agility stats also play a role.

-M.

[Gustamantis]

The PT and perception help defend against CMANS. I'd probably stick to one lore until the elemental lore reviews are done. Either fire or air is good.

I've always wondered what about this. Allow me to explain my mindset behind training in all 3 lores. Initially I was a swinging wizard so I went with air, with the goal being to lower my haste time, at 24 ranks I can bolt with Tonis, and I'm attuned to air, so I like my air lore, as it's my foundation, so to speak. The fire lore I picked up, because it seems to be the main bolt I use besides tonis, and of course I hunted the glacier like any self respecting wizard, and the earth lore I picked up to enhance my stone skin, which seems important since I don't have padded armor. So what I've been doing is just 1x in lores each training and alternating between fire and earth to keep my fireballs and my stone skin good and strong. I don't know what the 'elemental lore reviews' are, but I'm curious as to the benifits of switching over to say 53 ranks of air lore, vs. keeping them where they are. Won't I notice a big difference in my fireballs/stone skin? Also, how specifically do PT and perception help with maneuvers? Would it be better for me to be 1x trained in those 2 things vs. having my 10 ranks of CM that I presently have? I pick up 1 rank of CM every 5 trainings as it stands now...

[thefarmer]

I don't know of any player testing into PF's effect on maneuvers, but this is a quote by Mestys taken from a saved post about the bowels.

Awesome.

Going in the random GM posts folder now.

[droit]

Might as well take the whole thing. I got it from KP.

Category: Game Design Discussions
Topic: Critters and Creatures
Message number: 4582
Author: GS4-MESTYS
Date: 4/27/2007 8:37:17 pm
Subject: Re: Stronghold Bowels


>Number one:

A massive boulder comes barrelling into view!
In a vain attempt, you leap to avoid the speeding boulder! The krynch strikes you squarely, crushing you beneath it and the ground!
... 45 points of damage!
Awesome shot collapses one of your lungs!
You are stunned for 6 rounds!
Roundtime: 20 sec.

This is pretty much as bad a result as is possible for this maneuver. The various negative status effects can be mitigated or completely avoided based on a standard maneuver roll (see last paragraph).

>Secondly, the illoke doing their "teleport to you" maneuver that gives them no RT and casting stone fist immediately. I can deal with the no prep time for stone fist, it's just how they can step out of the wall and cause instant death that annoys me. Can't they have at least one round of RT after teleporting to me from half the bowels away?

Both the Illoke jarls and Illoke elders have Transference (225) in their respective repertoires, which does take up a normal amount of roundtime upon casting. The only functional differences between their version and the players' is the messaging and their ability to use it to target players in the area.

Their Stone Fist is also mechanically a spell, and if they are casting it without first preparing, it is a bug.

>Third, does the bowels really have to be unlocatable? It's not like there are really many people in the Landing capable of coming in there and rescuing me anyway (illoke always like to swarm around a corpse and kill people instantly when they come in), but I'd sort of like the rare opportunity to have someone attempt to rescue me.

The prevention of magical location within the hunting ground is indeed intended. It's meant to be a facet of the area itself.

>Now, an honest question. Are the illoke supposed to teleport behind the opening (where the earth elementals and krynches generate)? They don't ever spawn back there, but if I run through to the opening, the illoke will inevitably teleport to me (often just after I attack something and get into RT) after perhaps five or ten minutes of being back there. There aren't even people in the main area to generate them in the first place as far as I know.

The room range of the Illoke creatures' version of Transference is solely comprised of the whole of the Thanatoph Bowels. Even if you're not in a section in which they normally generate, they can still teleport to a valid target anywhere in the area; and since it is all considered one area, they will generate in their normal range of rooms.

>Another honest question -- why are the illoke so vulnerable to arrows? They're stone-like creatures, and yet arrows to the eye tear through them faster than I can use my axe to kill kobolds -- because sniping to the eye takes three seconds, versus my five second swing to kill a kobold.

This is a result of the Illoke creatures' natural armor, which is roughly equivalent to chain hauberk. This is in contrast to many of their rocky allies, who tend to be closer to full plate. It's much easier to achieve an endroll to get that puncture death critical on the former versus the latter. You might consider swapping out to a nice dagger against them, assuming you ambush and have a reliable means of knockdown.

>Lastly, what exactly helps in dodging stone fist? It doesn't seem to be physical skills (since I get hit every time), and yet it doesn't seem to be magical skills (since casters get hit almost every time). -Grendeg

The Illoke creatures' Stone Fist spell is primarily based around the standard maneuver roll. Spells such as Mobility (618), Prayer (313), and Dauntless (1606) will benefit you. Ranks in Combat Maneuvers, Perception, and Physical Fitness will also be of assistance. The Dexterity and Agility stats also play a role.

-M.

[Mtenda]

I've always wondered what about this. Allow me to explain my mindset behind training in all 3 lores. Initially I was a swinging wizard so I went with air, with the goal being to lower my haste time, at 24 ranks I can bolt with Tonis, and I'm attuned to air, so I like my air lore, as it's my foundation, so to speak. The fire lore I picked up, because it seems to be the main bolt I use besides tonis, and of course I hunted the glacier like any self respecting wizard, and the earth lore I picked up to enhance my stone skin, which seems important since I don't have padded armor. So what I've been doing is just 1x in lores each training and alternating between fire and earth to keep my fireballs and my stone skin good and strong. I don't know what the 'elemental lore reviews' are, but I'm curious as to the benifits of switching over to say 53 ranks of air lore, vs. keeping them where they are. Won't I notice a big difference in my fireballs/stone skin? Also, how specifically do PT and perception help with maneuvers? Would it be better for me to be 1x trained in those 2 things vs. having my 10 ranks of CM that I presently have? I pick up 1 rank of CM every 5 trainings as it stands now...

Well I wouldn't go beyond 24 in air lore unless you use lightning bolts as your primary hunting spell. Fire lore however you can't have enough of for 519 and your fireballs. It just keeps getting better. I can understand your logic though and it's not bad.

[Gustamantis]

I tend to hunt over my head and can't hit much with my 519, I hear a lot of wizards talking about hunting with 519 though... I presume it's done because this allows you to wrack like a sorcerer and hunt out of guarded stance? If that's the case wouldn't it be more mana friendly to overtrain in the 400's and use 409?

I've played GS since it was free on AOL, but I always leave and come back, this is my first character I've ever gotten beyond level 40, and now that I'm an adult and realize I keep coming back, I'm probably not ever going to be without this character (unless GS shuts down)... basically, my point is, I've never been this high and I want to make sure I'm not setting myself up to be unviable once I reach 70+. I haven't had any issues up until now, I hunt things in the level 60 range without too much trouble (short of maneuvers, which I assume haunt all wizards). Anyway, that's the main reason for this post, I'm just very interested to know what others think a wizard should look like, as well as the reasons why. I have to head home from work now, but I'll recheck this thread when I get home, I appreciate all the helpful advice, thanks guys.

[Mtenda]

I tend to hunt over my head and can't hit much with my 519, I hear a lot of wizards talking about hunting with 519 though... I presume it's done because this allows you to wrack like a sorcerer and hunt out of guarded stance? If that's the case wouldn't it be more mana friendly to overtrain in the 400's and use 409?

I've played GS since it was free on AOL, but I always leave and come back, this is my first character I've ever gotten beyond level 40, and now that I'm an adult and realize I keep coming back, I'm probably not ever going to be without this character (unless GS shuts down)... basically, my point is, I've never been this high and I want to make sure I'm not setting myself up to be unviable once I reach 70+. I haven't had any issues up until now, I hunt things in the level 60 range without too much trouble (short of maneuvers, which I assume haunt all wizards). Anyway, that's the main reason for this post, I'm just very interested to know what others think a wizard should look like, as well as the reasons why. I have to head home from work now, but I'll recheck this thread when I get home, I appreciate all the helpful advice, thanks guys.

519 is really shit until you have about 50 ranks of fire lore. 409 would probably end up costing you more mana and take longer against most things vs. 519 with proper lore training.

[thefarmer]

Unless you set your stats to something stupid.. and are unable to hunt now (which you're not), then no character is unviable in GS4.

[Gustamantis]

519 is really shit until you have about 50 ranks of fire lore. 409 would probably end up costing you more mana and take longer against most things vs. 519 with proper lore training.

so maybe I should think about dumping all ranks into one lore, because at 53 ranks I would probably be making my one spell exponentially stronger than it is, as opposed to my current incremental increases. I can honestly say I've never noticed my fire getting any stronger, or my air, or anything, but I just assume that it's getting stronger based upon the fact that I can continue to hunt. I mean, yeah my AS goes up each level, but the DF and AvD of said bolts is what it is, isn't it?

Like, what if I were to put all 53 ranks into elemental lore - air? Would I notice in anything I do? My haste might be 1 second faster, my disk might carry 1 more box, but would I notice it in my 505?

I always thought the lores mostly added to the non attack based spells. ie bigger disks, more AS on the strength, better stone skin, etc... and I also thought it made the splash damage better and stronger. ie 908... however, if I'm going to notice a huge difference between my present lore ranks and if I maxed one out, it's something I definetly need to consider....

:thanx:

[yesicj]

I repeat this every time I stumble onto a Lore discussion and it might very well be getting on people's nerves at this point, but frankly I just don't think it gets said enough: I'm a huge proponent of (in my mage's case 40s onward) at least 9 ranks of Earth lore. The extra AS is meaningless because he's a bolter, but the bonus carries over into carrying capacity in terms of encumbrance and whatnot. With 15 ranks, that's a whole extra bunch of scrolls, wands, statues, and so on that he can carry without eating into what I consider the box weight quota.

[Jayvn]

don't split your lores up... pick it and go with it.. btw..air lores fucking rock if you end up picking boxes like I did for the last 2 trains to cap...

[Celephais]

Heh... there is actually a point (something like 200 ranks of MjE) where you can have haste turn a 20 second RT into 1 second.

[Warriorbird]

That's awesome.

[Gustamantis]

so will training in air lore only make my tonis bolt stronger?

[Gustamantis]

also will my 906 and stone skin be worthless without the extra lore? The only one I don't train in is water, and I haven't thrown a water bolt since I was hunting fire guardians.

[Gustamantis]

505 Hand of Tonis
After training in 20 ranks of Elemental Lore, Air, Hand of Tonis becomes a bolt spell if cast from a stance above guarded. Ranks over 20 increases the Damage Factor (DF) of the spell's bolting capabilities

that answers my main question, I think I'll put all 53 ranks into air.

[Rolton-Sammich]

Heh... there is actually a point (something like 200 ranks of MjE) where you can have haste turn a 20 second RT into 1 second.
200 ranks lets you turn 26 seconds into 1. (189 ranks gets you 20 to 1.) :yes:

[Ignot]

You could always skip lores all together and pick up more spell ranks.