Say 'no' to the Japanification of Gemstone

[Edaarin]

Bad enough you see shit like Veigita or Gokuu Supersaiyanstupidbullshitname.

EDSHRAS33



Ignore Author

Email Author

Say no to the Asian invasion · on 2/16/2004 10:43:02 AM 491


Reply Delete

This has been a big concern of mine from day one when I read about the release of Erithians, monks, and Oriental style weapons. I don't want to see Gemstone be flooded by Goku-Bruce-Lee-Jet-Li wanna-bes. Thus far I haven't seen that many problems with that, as roleplay has for the most part been tastefully done. About the most annoying thing I've seen maybe is someone who announces the style of her attack before every swing, but I guess that could be considered good roleplaying?

Anyway...this is where I draw the line. When a GM controlled Merchant/NPC starts speaking Confucius style. I'm well aware that as a new race they don't have a firm grasp on Common, but I wish that they could at least come up with an original speech impediment. Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but reading it aloud makes me think of an immigrant with a heavy accent (a la Mr. Miyagi from the Karate Kid). It's more than slightly offensive. If this is allowable, then I should be able to roll up a priest with black skin, set profession title to Brother, and walk around wielding a jack-blade wearing billowy pants and platinum. And speaking street, right?

Cerisago asks, "You talk with healer?"
Cerisago says, "Priests say many things."
Cerisago says, "Some things, truth, same."
Cerisago says, "He hear other thing not. Not in whole world."
Cerisago says, "No other voice hear they."
Cerisago says, "I apologies for past. I know not of you sick."
Cerisago says, "I hope you like good."
Cerisago says, "One more."
>
Cerisago smiles at .
>
Cerisago says, "I not forget you."

At least she didn't replace her l's with r's.


[Edited on 2-16-2004 by Edaarin]

[Artha]

We will all be assimirated.

[Bobmuhthol]

Most rikery.

[Sakkat]

Originally posted by Edaarin
Supersaiyanstupidbullshitname.

I will create a character with this name, just for fun. Something like Supersaiyan Stupid'Name.

[Artha]

No last names anymore...just be Supersaiyan.

[Edaarin]

Number of people who have created a stupid name just to bug me at Hearthstone since GSIV opened: 6

Number of people who go up to me and whisper shit like 'Me rikey!' : I lost count.

If I don't fucking know you, don't pretend to be familiar with me.

[Sakkat]

Originally posted by Edaarin
If I don't fucking know you, don't pretend to be familiar with me.

Yikes, if you were refering to me, it was a joke and chill the fuck out. If not Disregard the first sentence.

[Bobmuhthol]

I think he's referring to the people who think they're funny.

Yes, he was referring to you.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Dunno, if someone came up to me and said racist comments to me (that applied to me) whom I didn't know, I'd probably be pissed to.

[Sakkat]

Dunno if you were refering to this, but sice when is Supersaiyan Stupid'Name racist?

[Bobmuhthol]

Surprisingly, not everyone only responds to only what you say, Sakkat.

Especially when Tayvin was talking about racist comments, and mentioned nothing about you, a stupid name, or you making a character with a stupid name.

[Sakkat]

Then why not use a quote.

[StrayRogue]

I don't see why this is a problem at all, to be honest. Just another facet of GS life. I can also count the amount of Erithian's with Katana's and Ninja names on one hand. Over-reacting, much.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Then why not use a quote.>>

Because it's not necessary in every post. Particularly, it's not necessary when it's obvious who is responding to whom just by reading what the person has to say. Stop being illiterate.

[Sean]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
I don't see why this is a problem at all, to be honest. Just another facet of GS life. I can also count the amount of Erithian's with Katana's and Ninja names on one hand. Over-reacting, much.

its sort of like how you or miss x get upset when people stereotype brits as having bad teeth etc. if simu created a race that was a blatant knock off of your culture and then included stereotypes, such as bad speech, and supported it with gm npc actions i would like to think it would bother you some too.

[Bobmuhthol]

I have a problem with white characters that talk like whites.

[Betheny]

So... Americans would be dwarves, in GS... yes? Or giantmen?

I guess Simutronics figures that people are going to think it's an RPG... and that anything t hat goes on in it is RP-justified. I think it's a crock, but maybe they just aren't quite creative enough to come up with an original platform for a race.

[Caiylania]

I thought they spoke broken common because they are new to Elanthia .... I'm not into the katana thing, but considering getting a wakizashi because of its low weight and RT.

[Nakiro]

The speech impediment thing is definately over doing it.

And wasn't this japanese race just a rip from DragonRealms anyway?

God, they can't even create a new race or a new culture.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Heh. Speech Impediments. Not that I'd know anything about that.

[Nakiro]

I wonder if a racists character called an Eretherian a chink if it'd be OOC.

[Betheny]

I doubt it. "Ninja" and all manner of weapons from that arena are acceptable.

[Latrinsorm]

Simu pisses me off with the way they rip off my Scottish heritage too. At least they haven't made a Polish-esque area yet.

[Tsa`ah]

The speech impediment thing is definately over doing it.

And wasn't this japanese race just a rip from DragonRealms anyway?

God, they can't even create a new race or a new culture.

Almost everything contained within a Simu product is a rip-off.

Hearthstone rips off Terry Brooks and the Shanara novels
Darkstone rips of Voltron (lions series)
The whole dark elf crap rips off TSR and the Droll to some extent. Hell, we even have a lame Drizzdt rip-off running around. We are just supposed to assume that since he isn't a Droll ranger that he is original.

Is this necessarily wrong? Only in the sense that it is passed off as original and we are to assume that the GMs are these creative geniuses.

I happen to agree with the sentiment of not allowing GS to degenerate into a butchering of anime characters and Oriental histories.

I do have reservations about supporting such an idea however. For all of those that don't want this degradation into DBZ pop-tart characters to happen. For all of those that don't want to see Oriental history mangled to fit into GS lore. I have to ask you ... Where were you when my cousin posted his misgivings about Hebrew culture being used as a professional title for sorcerers?

I'm against this, but at this point in the game I just have to shrug my shoulders and say "typical".

[Nakiro]

How is herbrew used in a sorcerer title?

I'm just ignorant.

[Hulkein]

I'd rather not see it happen but let's face it, if that means more people will be attracted to the game Simu will do it in a second. Not to mention they're not exactly the best paid employee's in the world (with the exception of the brass which I'm sure don't develop story lines and ideas) so they're not attracting the most innovative minds.

[Artha]

How is herbrew used in a sorcerer title?

The title is Cabalist.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Nakiro
How is herbrew used in a sorcerer title?

I'm just ignorant.

See ... Cabalist.

Damn you Artha.

[Edited on 2-16-2004 by Tsa`ah]

[Trinitis]

I can't wait for the monk class, personally. But you will NOT see me screaming strange names before each attack and such. I actually invision my monk being a lot like Danica from the Clerics Quintet. A master of his body and mind. Being in complete control of said mind and body, and as such, being able to do things most "mundain" people would find amazing.

-Adredrin

[Pierat]

Swords are such a rip off! People used swords hundreds of years ago! duh! Didnt they know that before they made gemstone? ::snickers and runs away::
Just being devils advocate :)

[Kia]

I agree with Edaarin on this one, though I must say that Mr Miyagi does, in fact, rule.

Its not like you could roll up a merchant that says, "I'm going to enchantizzle your weaponizzle, holla back"

(Wow, you can tell how white I am by how much I messed that one up).

So why should this be any different?

KIA.

[HarmNone]

Come to think of it, Tsa`ah...is a golem not a creature of Jewish legend, made of clay and created by a Rabbi in Prague to serve as a servant? Most of the stuff in GS is ripped off from somewhere.

As for the "Japanization", it is just a continuation of what has gone before. It is an effort to conform with the wishes of the majority.

HarmNone

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah

The speech impediment thing is definately over doing it.

And wasn't this japanese race just a rip from DragonRealms anyway?

God, they can't even create a new race or a new culture.

Almost everything contained within a Simu product is a rip-off.

Hearthstone rips off Terry Brooks and the Shanara novels
Darkstone rips of Voltron (lions series)
The whole dark elf crap rips off TSR and the Droll to some extent. Hell, we even have a lame Drizzdt rip-off running around. We are just supposed to assume that since he isn't a Droll ranger that he is original.

Is this necessarily wrong? Only in the sense that it is passed off as original and we are to assume that the GMs are these creative geniuses.

I happen to agree with the sentiment of not allowing GS to degenerate into a butchering of anime characters and Oriental histories.

I do have reservations about supporting such an idea however. For all of those that don't want this degradation into DBZ pop-tart characters to happen. For all of those that don't want to see Oriental history mangled to fit into GS lore. I have to ask you ... Where were you when my cousin posted his misgivings about Hebrew culture being used as a professional title for sorcerers?

I'm against this, but at this point in the game I just have to shrug my shoulders and say "typical".

Droll? Are you using some obscure word for Drow I've never heard? :)

[Artha]

Basically all fantasy is ripped off Tolkein. Just like any genre, there are going to be commonalities (I rock) between things.

[Tsa`ah]

Doh!.... yes Drow.

It's been a long time since I've touched anything from TSR ... with the exception of Baldur's.

[Trinitis]

hehe, ok! Droll was confusin me. Drow I understand. Continue ;)

[Zir]

I once knew a guy in the game named Mistermiyagi. He disappeared for some reason.

[Artha]

I made a character called Nintendo.

It lasted longer than my Hitler character, but not by much.

[Xcalibur]

They give their reasons to warclaidhm that was threatening to leave (for the 34567th times)

People want text base katana.

Simu will gave em.

That's about it.

Personaly, i think it's STUPID and IDIOT since you can't even go to "elanthia's japan"

but hey..

[Kia]

Originally posted by Nakiro
I wonder if a racists character called an Eretherian a chink if it'd be OOC.

They'd probably be "soaped" for vulgarity.

KIA.

[Bobmuhthol]

Yes, it's very idiot of Simutronics to do such a thing.

[Trinitis]

Just because that style of weapon is of the japenese culture in the real world, does not mean a race of people in GS did not learn to use the same forging ideals.

But yes, we all know people are going to go crazy with the Ninja crap

[Artha]

I think they did a good thing by limiting katanas (and thus ninjas).

[Soulpieced]

And katanas are terrible weapons that can only be used by warriors and mutants trained for THW.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Kia
They'd probably be "soaped" for vulgarity.There's no soaping anymore. Or it's incredibly lenient, cuz I dropped an f-bomb the other day in game (by accident, damn Stormfront quote thing, last time I try to use that POS).

[Zir]

At least they havent released throwing stars yet.

[Artha]

(by accident, damn Stormfront quote thing, last time I try to use that POS).

Just click on the circle that has an apostrophe on it. It should change into a >, making everything normal.

It's a stupid feature bound to confuse the hell out of new players, I'm not sure why they put it in there.

[Galleazzo]

Lord liftin' Jesus, I'm with Stray. GS has thirty three zillion stereotypes. Who thinks that the metalheads now walking the streets with twenty piercings is a fucking stereotype? What did the Mad Prince say -- there are blokes walking around with more tattoos than convicts or sailors have? We got Highlander clones and sorcs wearing more skulls than the average graveyard and halflings with oozing tart shields and "teefs" wanting "empuffs" to fix their "owies."

Fucking Sailor Moon clones, if and when they ever show, are the LEAST of our worries.

[Warriorbird]

I'm sorry yer leavin, Edaarin... but as I said over in the official side, I think you're pretty biased about this and blowing it out of proportion. There's countless other cultural references in Gemstone that I've never heard you complain about.

Yet, Asian cultural references are made? End of the world!

It didn't seem particularly "Asian" accent focused... and people that haven't learned Common well haven't learned Common well. I'm suprised you didn't complain about Mikos's Tehir merchant which I seem to remember seeing you at, or at the least, by.

[Edaarin]

Which one was Mikos' Tehir? Refresh my memory, I bitch a lot to people in IMs so it wouldn't surprise me if I said something about it to someone, but this was one of the few times I took the time to think something out and post an actual complaint on the official boards. Of course I'm biased. I don't care much for that particular GM either, and I'm sure that came across in either of my posts.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not leaving just over this. I just haven't had fun in game in awhile, and something I play as a hobby shouldn't make me want to reach through my computer and punch every fifth person that plays. Probably be back sometime in the summer.

[Warriorbird]

That first Tehir merchant with the early katars. Was like a frickin elf or something....before Warden did what he did regarding that culture.

:shrugs: Just saying there's a ton of other cultural references out there. I'm sure some Jewish folks play. I'm sure some Hispanic folks play. I'm sure some French folks play. I'm sure some German folks play. Heck, I KNOW there's some folks with Scottish and or Italian in their background who play.

I don't see any of them getting offended. I think the guild NPCs are probably a lot higher on the potential cultural offensiveness list. I've never heard anyone complain about them.

Like the GM or not, just doesn't seem all that bothersome.

[Edaarin]

Guess we can just agree to have a difference of opinion then :)

To me, this whole thing reeks of that 'Brother wielding a jack-blade' example Soulpieced and I joked about that I made in the first post, if a considerably less extreme version of it. I'm sure other people feel differently, but that's the way I feel. I know 3 other posters here (two of whom were the ones who IM'd me first about Jharra's NPC) of similar ethnic background don't appreciate it either, and we're probably in the minority there (no pun intended).

[Caiylania]

They do seem to be giving in to alot of 'Earth' non elanthian stuff.

With all the turbans floating around I'm dreading .....

You see blah blah
He has black hair, brown eyes, and dark skin.
He is wearing a dirty white turban, white robes, a sword-belt with a scimitar hanging from it, and some brown leather sandals.


People do everything else.

[Kia]

Originally posted by Caiylania
They do seem to be giving in to alot of 'Earth' non elanthian stuff.

With all the turbans floating around I'm dreading .....

You see blah blah
He has black hair, brown eyes, and dark skin.
He is wearing a dirty white turban, white robes, a sword-belt with a scimitar hanging from it, and some brown leather sandals.


People do everything else.

You've just described Maliku. Heehee.

KIA.

[Makkah]

Yes. My boy Maliku. Here's a really awesome drawing Rinika (<3) did of him.

rht

[StrayRogue]

He looks Egyptian.

[Makkah]

That's the point. Was looking for Berber or late-Islamic Reconquest era.


rht

EDIT:

You see Maliku al-Amlak the Battlechanter.
He appears to be a Human of the Tehir tribes.
He appears to have come of age and very tall. He has dark-rimmed black eyes and parched, black skin. He has short, braided black hair worn in elaborate braids. He has an emaciated, bony face and a pronounced jawline.
He is in good shape.
He is wearing a sandy grey linen turban pinned with a ruby crescent, a grey cotton face-shroud embroidered with red crescents, a concealing sandy grey linen burnoose threaded with a pattern of geometric shapes from hood to floor-length hem, a suit of augmented ora chainmail, some loose white hide breeches, a crude copper clasped wrist-cuff made from long beads of stained bone, some black leather sandals, and a woven bamboo bag.

[Edited on 2-19-2004 by Makkah]

[Warriorbird]

Mmm. Double standards. Why aren't you jumping on Rhett? Gemstone is made up of countless cultural and literary references. Yet.. it's only a problem when it's your culture... and only a problem with a GM you don't like.

If the attempt was being made to ridicule Asian culture or even make it more Asian... it could've been easily done by looking up a more "Asian" mispronunciation structure. It wasn't. It was based on ASL, as posted on the Simu boards.

Is it such a foreign notion that some folks don't speak Common well? Should I be getting offended by all the corny reivers? By the Tehir? By the guild NPCs for both the Warrior and Rogue's guild?

Hell. Haven't you mastered most of the Rogue's guild skills? Can you look your Italian friends in the eye? I think you can.

:grins:

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
Should I be getting offended by all the corny reivers?I'm more offended by the variance in their accent than the boozing/fighting part.

[Edaarin]

Again Conan, I'm just biased like that. Would I be offended if I was Italian? Probably. I'm not though. I wouldn't air any complaints if they decided to out with Dante, or the garlic cooker, or O'Reilly, or Houlihan, etc.

It's the speech pattern that bugs me. You spend a few days with exchange students, or in a residential language house, or have any of the professors in the stat department and you'll see what I mean. Maybe it is a double standard, but it's just the way I feel on the matter. Once it starts on minority culture that's just venturing in areas where I think some people need culture sensitivity training.

[Kat]

I don't think it's a bad thing to have a bit of Asian influence in the game....but when I read about the Erithians and saw the pictures, now the Erithian shops and the items they're selling, the 'broken common', I was a bit turned off by it all.

It's one thing to see a Human of the Tehir tribes with dark skin and eyes, etc, like Maliku....but there's a whole separate race set aside that dresses, looks, and even speaks in a way that would instantly make you think 'Asian.'

I'm sure that most people would find it strange if they created a separate race of people that spoke, dressed, and and looked as if they came straight out of the plains of Africa, carrying spears and...ugh, you get the point.

I just think they could have been a little more creative in introducing these things...

[Galleazzo]

The way they were introducing sporrans, kilts, clan tartans, thistle brooches, claids and bagpipes?

[Hips]

They weren't "introducing" any of that. All that has been around for a while.

[Galleazzo]

Yeah, but it was introduced once upon a time. Fawn reeeeelly liked Highlander, y'see, so it was okay to have Scotsmen in GS. How lame can you get?

[Warriorbird]

I value your point and Edaarin's, Michiko. Doesn't make me feel that this is somehow more wrong than the countless other instances of this sort of thing in GS, though.

[Kat]

'All that' hasn't been around for a while. A lot of it was considered out-of-genre before. I'm sorry, I meant they could have been more creative with the Erithian race in general.

[Warriorbird]

Well... to bring up a bad subject... it might've been more detailed if the person creating the race and the background hadn't been subject to an untimely death.

[Makkah]

I love the new races.


rht

[Makkah]

<<That first Tehir merchant with the early katars. Was like a frickin elf or something....before Warden did what he did regarding that culture.>>

And it was half-elf, played by Mikos.

rht

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Makkah
<<That first Tehir merchant with the early katars. Was like a frickin elf or something....before Warden did what he did regarding that culture.>>

And it was half-elf, played by Mikos.

rht

And the only reason one may pick the Tehir culture for a half-elf.

[Artha]

Actually, I don't think Caballist has roots in hebrew (well, intentionally anyway).

From webster.com:

Cabal [origins blah blah blah] - the artifices and intrigues of a group of persons secretly united to bring about an overturn or usurpation especially in public affairs; also : a group engaged in such artifices and intrigues

So I would guess a cabalist is one who is in a group like that.

[Caramia]

cabal

\Ca*bal"\ (k[.a]*b[a^]l"), n. [F. cabale cabal, cabala, LL. cabala cabala, fr. Heb. qabb[=a]l[=e]h reception, tradition, mysterious doctrine, fr. q[=a]bal to take or receive, in Pi["e]l qibbel to adopt (a doctrine).] 1. Tradition; occult doctrine. See Cabala [Obs.] --Hakewill.

If you look, you see the origin is Hebrew. This is the atypical spelling. The more common spelling, kabbalah, will get you this result:


kab·ba·lah or kab·ba·la or ka·ba·la also ca·ba·la or qa·ba·la or qa·ba·lah ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kb-l, k-bäl) n.

1. often Kabbalah - A body of mystical teachings of rabbinical origin, often based on an esoteric interpretation of the Hebrew Scriptures.

2. A secret doctrine resembling these teachings.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Medieval Latin cabala, from Hebrew qabblâ, received doctrine, tradition, from qibbl, to receive. See qbl in Semitic Roots.]

Usage Note: There are no less than two dozen variant spellings of kabbalah, the most common of which include kabbalah, kabala, kabalah, qabalah, qabala, cabala, cabbala, kaballah, kabbala, kaballah, and qabbalah. This sort of confusion is frequently seen with Hebrew and Arabic words borrowed into English because there exist several different systems of transliterating the Hebrew and Arabic alphabets into Roman letters. Often a more exact or scholarly transliteration, such as Qur'an, will coexist alongside a spelling that has been heavily Anglicized (Koran). The fact that the Hebrew and Arabic alphabets do not as a rule indicate short vowels or the doubling of consonants compounds the difficulties. Spellings of kabbalah with one or two b's are equally “correct,” insofar as the single b accurately reproduces the spelling of the Hebrew, while the double b represents the fact that it was once pronounced with a double b.

[Artha]

I know where the root is. See my earlier post.

However, it doesn't imply knowing the kaballah or secret knowledge. The word (cabal) comes from the french cabale and so on and so forth.

[Warriorbird]

:coughs: :shakes head:

[longshot]

Originally posted by Nakiro

I'm just ignorant.

You're from Kentucky.

We don't have high expectations, so don't worry too much.

[longshot]

On a serious note, Edaarin, I agree with you.

That's wrong for a GM to do. They owe an apology.

It's not as bad as "Shadow Warrior", but it still sucks.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Artha
Actually, I don't think Caballist has roots in hebrew (well, intentionally anyway).

From webster.com:

Cabal [origins blah blah blah] - the artifices and intrigues of a group of persons secretly united to bring about an overturn or usurpation especially in public affairs; also : a group engaged in such artifices and intrigues

So I would guess a cabalist is one who is in a group like that.

No, a cabalist is one who seeks wholeness or unity within a shattered and imprefect existance. In a nut-shell as it were. It is far more complicated than that however.

You do realize that your definition was birthed by the Spanish Inquisition, don't you?

Blatently anti-semetic for a reason, it was propoganda used to fuel the expulsion of jews from Spain without massive civil unrest.


Originally posted by Artha
I know where the root is. See my earlier post.

However, it doesn't imply knowing the kaballah or secret knowledge. The word (cabal) comes from the french cabale and so on and so forth.

No. That is not correct.

[The Sponge]

What's wrong with this. It would be way cool if we could be ninja in Gemstone.

[Galleazzo]

Ummm, okay .....

[Fengus]

TSR riped Tolkien, Tolkien ripped celtic and other anglo folk lore. Other anglo folk lore ripped some other central group which spawned anglo, asian and the rest.

Drow is not anything original to TSR, its roots in folk lore described a race that lives in caves and often come out for mischief, much like kobolds and goblins.

[Latrinsorm]

<< ripped some other central group which spawned anglo, asian and the rest. >>

Who would that be? The Sethites?