Capped Empath Spell Mix

[Soulpieced]

Not quite capped yet, but assume 2x, and then beyond for spells with bone shatter hunting style. Discuss. Right now looking at this:

Mental Mana Control................| 140 40 40
Spirit Mana Control................| 200 100 100
Mental Lore - Manipulation.........| 196 96 96
Mental Lore - Transformation.......| 150 50 50

Spell Lists
Major Spirit.......................| 40 40

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 40 40

Spell Lists
Empath.............................| 112 112

[Soulpieced]

Bueller?

[Dwarven Empath]

This is what I have:


Elemental Mana Control.............| 102 24 24
Mental Mana Control................| 201 101 101
Spirit Mana Control................| 102 24 24
Spiritual Lore - Blessings.........| 25 5 5
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 90 20 20
Mental Lore - Manipulation.........| 140 40 40
Mental Lore - Telepathy............| 90 20 20
Mental Lore - Transformation.......| 140 40 40

[phantasm]

If your going to train in Manipulation for its benefit to Bone Shatter, you will want to 1x or 2x, don't be half ass about it. Its only benefit is tiny increases in the instant kill rate. If you 1x you will get about 15% if you 2x you will get about 25%. If your not going to go that route, you can drop Manipulation all together and instead just 1x MMC for behind the scenes increases to warding margin when calculating the crit ranks.

The 2x Manipulation = 25% instant kill is GRAND.

[mgoddess]

If your not going to go that route, you can drop Manipulation all together ...
Manipulation affects other Empath spells, not just 1106.

1101 - increases Harm damage
1110 - decreases foe's TD (yeah, only by 13, but that could make a difference)
1115 - increases chance of Wither instant death
1150 - increases the amount of protection granted by the cocoon

[phantasm]

Manipulation affects other Empath spells, not just 1106.

1101 - increases Harm damage
1110 - decreases foe's TD (yeah, only by 13, but that could make a difference)
1115 - increases chance of Wither instant death
1150 - increases the amount of protection granted by the cocoon

These benefits are not worth it. The fact that manipulation lore increases the chance of instant death for Wither can be regarded the same as it can for Bone Shatter. The actual increase for them is about .1% for each rank of Manipulation. In small amounts this isn't worth the effort, but like I said, if you want to keep MMC and SMC to a minimum (24 ranks) and go 2x Manipulation, then you have created a strong combo of offensive spells. Most empaths seem to get 40 ranks of Manipulation and think its increasing the power of these 2 spells when really its only giving you a 4% increase in instant death probability. Laughable.

Also, for spell ranks over 2x. There might be some relationship between # of empath/major spells and the effect of Interference that would give you a nice balanced CS between major/empath. I haven't done any calculations with it though.

Will you be using 1110? I imagine it could come in handy, if so you will want 5 ranks of Telepathy I think to get the extra damage cycle.

[Soulpieced]

Basically just planned on strictly using boneshatter in guarded. Right now it's at 1x, and I expect to leave it at that to get other stuff. Was planning on swapping SMC and MMC once the annual fixskills comes.

Still nobody has mentioned anything about the spell mix. At what point would it make sense to stop empath spells (if at all), and which of the 3 is more beneficial for DS purposes.

[phantasm]

It would make sense to stop empath spells at about 160. Getting as much CS as you can for higher warding margins. Over training 1100's won't add anything to your DS, but additional 100 or 200's won't either.

[Daniel]

I finally capped? Sweet.

[mrjrd222]

It would make sense to stop empath spells at about 160. Getting as much CS as you can for higher warding margins. Over training 1100's won't add anything to your DS, but additional 100 or 200's won't either.

Past 40? Sure they will.

Every 2 ranks of 100's will give you 2 DS (102 and 120 are uncapped DS spells)

Every 3 ranks of the 200's will give you 1 DS from 202, which is nothing compared to the 100's

For Max CS you'd want in the 160 range of Empath spells, and in the 66 range for 200's/100's. If you want more DS and can sacrifice a bit of CS, I'd still stick with 160 or so Empath spells, but go with 100 spells in the 100's and 40 in the 200's. It would drop 8-9 CS but gain almost 30 DS over the ~160/66/66 plan.

[Dwarven Empath]

Basically just planned on strictly using boneshatter in guarded. Right now it's at 1x, and I expect to leave it at that to get other stuff. Was planning on swapping SMC and MMC once the annual fixskills comes.

Still nobody has mentioned anything about the spell mix. At what point would it make sense to stop empath spells (if at all), and which of the 3 is more beneficial for DS purposes.

You will probably use 1110 on the birds. It kills them alot faster then bone shatter.

As far as spells go.
167-68-68

[Dwarven Empath]

These benefits are not worth it. The fact that manipulation lore increases the chance of instant death for Wither can be regarded the same as it can for Bone Shatter. The actual increase for them is about .1% for each rank of Manipulation. In small amounts this isn't worth the effort, but like I said, if you want to keep MMC and SMC to a minimum (24 ranks) and go 2x Manipulation, then you have created a strong combo of offensive spells. Most empaths seem to get 40 ranks of Manipulation and think its increasing the power of these 2 spells when really its only giving you a 4% increase in instant death probability. Laughable.

Also, for spell ranks over 2x. There might be some relationship between # of empath/major spells and the effect of Interference that would give you a nice balanced CS between major/empath. I haven't done any calculations with it though.

Will you be using 1110? I imagine it could come in handy, if so you will want 5 ranks of Telepathy I think to get the extra damage cycle.


I don't want the instant death probability. I hunt alot in groups, kind of takes away the fun if I'm blasting the hell out of stuff.
If you max out MMC, you do not need alot of Manipulation ranks.

[Xaerve]

MMC is god. I have it fully 2x'd.

[Beguiler]

My empath is not quite capped yet (23k to go..whine) but at 99 these are my lores and mana controls:

Elemental Mana Control 24
Spiritual Mana Contraol 101
Mental Mana Control 101
Spirutual Lore: Blessings 70
Spiritual Lore: Summoning 70
Mental Lore: Manipulation 70
Mental Lore: Telepathy 5
Mental Lore: Transformation 57

Spells:

MjS 40
MnS 40
Empath 122

Getting MjS and MnS ranks up is one of my first post cap goals, as well as getting PT to 3x..

Right now, I hunt well with Bone Shatter, Wither, Fire Spirit, Empathic Assault, can use wizard wands well to hunt elementals, and can heal all wounds and scars with no hard RT. It works for me.

[phantasm]

My empath is not quite capped yet (23k to go..whine) but at 99 these are my lores and mana controls:

Elemental Mana Control 24
Spiritual Mana Contraol 101
Mental Mana Control 101
Spirutual Lore: Blessings 70
Spiritual Lore: Summoning 70
Mental Lore: Manipulation 70
Mental Lore: Telepathy 5
Mental Lore: Transformation 57

Spells:

MjS 40
MnS 40
Empath 122

Getting MjS and MnS ranks up is one of my first post cap goals, as well as getting PT to 3x..

Right now, I hunt well with Bone Shatter, Wither, Fire Spirit, Empathic Assault, can use wizard wands well to hunt elementals, and can heal all wounds and scars with no hard RT. It works for me.

70 ranks of Manipulation lore for 7% chance of instant death. It just seems odd to me that you would focus so hard on MMC, and then have 70 ranks of Manipulation as well. Those 70 ranks should be dropped and put into spell ranks since you won't be getting instant kills and will be depending on warding margins for damage. IMO.

[Soulpieced]

Mind explaining the 5 ranks of Telepathy?

[Xaerve]

1110 double CS flare bonus.

[Soulpieced]

So another take on this thread. How would this look as a theoretical level 100 skill mix? Would it make sense to get the additional 30'ish ranks of armor use to get the brigandine hinderance down? Anything else to change/alter?

Armor Use..........................| 130 35
Shield Use.........................| 201 101
Blunt Weapons......................| 201 101
Physical Fitness...................| 302 202
Magic Item Use.....................| 120 30
Harness Power......................| 302 202
Mental Mana Control................| 201 101
Spirit Mana Control................| 140 40
Mental Lore - Manipulation.........| 0 0 (from 1x, dumping for spells/higher CS)
Mental Lore - Transformation.......| 150 50
Perception.........................| 150 50
Climbing...........................| 140 40
Swimming...........................| 150 50
First Aid..........................| 201 101
Trading............................| 201 101

Spell Lists
Major Spirit.......................| 40

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 40

Spell Lists
Empath.............................| 122

[Soulpieced]

Also was thinking of getting 24 ranks of CM to get rank 3 disarm CMAN. Should this be sufficient to alleviate most janissarys?

[Dwarven Empath]

Get 40 ranks of cman

As far as armor. Just get some really, really good LBP.

This way you only have to train 15 times in armor use.

Also I noticed you don't have any spell aim.

111 works nice in crowds.

[Soulpieced]

40 ranks for 4 ranks of disarm?

[Xaerve]

Yes.

[Fallen]

I agree that 4 ranks is a good stopping point for CM until you're ready to pursue Feint.

[Xaerve]

[Roll result: 93 (open d100: 70)]
An Ithzir janissary swings a spiral-hafted handaxe at your ruic long bow and connects!
An Ithzir janissary fails to knock the bow away!

that is with 4 ranks of disarm @ level 100 - human empath.

[Soulpieced]

Point noted. What's the benefit of staying at leather breastplate vs. brig?

[Dwarven Empath]

Point noted. What's the benefit of staying at leather breastplate vs. brig?

Just for the casting hinderance.

[Xaerve]

I stay in doubles, but yea, what he said. 0% hindrance saves me more than the heavier armor, IMO.

[Beguiler]

70 ranks of Manipulation lore for 7% chance of instant death. It just seems odd to me that you would focus so hard on MMC, and then have 70 ranks of Manipulation as well. Those 70 ranks should be dropped and put into spell ranks since you won't be getting instant kills and will be depending on warding margins for damage. IMO.

Already know that, just waiting for fixskills to move that around. Already had that level of manip lore when I figured out that I really didn't need that much. I'd be interested in how much would be appropriate. My first postcap goal is to get my MMC and SMC to 1z since that has been stated by GMs as the expected for empaths.

Also, as to armor, I have 6x HCP doubles, and have been very satisfied with them. Agree with Xaerve as to the benefits of 0% spell hindrance.

[Soulpieced]

What's the necessity of the 1x SMC? I was considering dropping it to 40, but could keep it at 100 if necessary.

[phantasm]

24 ranks of SMC and your golden.

Until a GM posts that something has changed.

[Dwarven Empath]

What's the necessity of the 1x SMC? I was considering dropping it to 40, but could keep it at 100 if necessary.

24 is all you need, so you can share mana with others

[Soulpieced]

Well, I was figuring 40 ranks to get the extra mana per pulse for a trivial amount of TPs.

[Xaerve]

I have 40 for that reason. There are other benefits too (130, etc).

[Dwarven Empath]

I have 40 for that reason. There are other benefits too (130, etc).

Just max out PF for the nausea.

[Xaerve]

ALREADY DID THAT MEDI!

[Dwarven Empath]

ALREADY DID THAT MEDI!



Oh! Then I should get 40 ranks of SMC

[iJin]

My favorite lore has to be summoning. Being able to cast 125 indoors, and locating at far regions, and summoning every herb, along with 128 lasting forever, also constantly hitting the dais or Victory Court when I fog--is pretty badass.

I had Zuie's capped at 100 while she's 65, but I changed it down to 70 and I'm already super regretting it. Can't wait to get the new fixskill to get it back up.

[Soulpieced]

Are there any real benefits for 3x'ing Physical Fitness?

[Xaerve]

I'm on my way to doing it now (289/303 ranks). I've noticed a drastic reduction in maneuver attacks effecting me in Nelemar and OTF; both in duration of RT and damage taken.

And Zuie... you just make me said :(

[iJin]

Why? Cause I like training for RP than hunting? :)

Don't neg rep me for that! Lameer.


Edit: And she's an awesome hunter. Having lore before cap isn't a waste.

[Xaerve]

Raw math and years of experience suggest otherwise.

[Athgo]

Are there any real benefits for 3x'ing Physical Fitness?

Go sunfist and combine 3x PF with 65 blessing lore ranks for full stamina return with 1107. Much better than wracking IMO.

[iJin]

Raw math and years of experience suggest otherwise.

Yeah, if all you care about the game is to hunt.

[Xaerve]

Yeah, if all you care about the game is to hunt.

What does summoning lore do for you again? Allows you to locate across realms and cast 125 inside? How do you use that for RP JEAN?

[Fallen]

Go sunfist and combine 3x PF with 65 blessing lore ranks for full stamina return with 1107. Much better than wracking IMO.

Combine that with Maneuver protection, massive health recovery (good during lengthy stuns and RTs from maneuvers), and negating 130 sickness and it is truly worthwhile. 3x PT is most definitely the way to go if you're an empath.

[iJin]

What does summoning lore do for you again? Allows you to locate across realms and cast 125 inside? How do you use that for RP JEAN?

You could use anything IG for RP, KYLE. It's all how you use it.

[Xaerve]

Noted, Jean, noted.

[deadly]

this is me at 89

Armor Use..........................| 40 8
Physical Fitness...................| 191 91
Arcane Symbols.....................| 120 30
Magic Item Use.....................| 120 30
Spell Aiming.......................| 282 182
Harness Power......................| 191 91
Mental Mana Control................| 160 60
Spirit Mana Control................| 90 20
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 160 60
Mental Lore - Manipulation.........| 30 6
Mental Lore - Telepathy............| 90 20
Mental Lore - Transformation.......| 160 60
Perception.........................| 102 24
Climbing...........................| 70 15
Swimming...........................| 120 30
First Aid..........................| 111 27

Spell Lists
Major Spirit.......................| 100

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 40

Spell Lists
Empath.............................| 110

[Xaerve]

I've never, ever, seen someone with 100 Major Spirit spells.. heh.

[Jahira]

Here is mine at 71. I hold a runestaff and use spirit slayer (240)/Bone shatter (1106) combo and can hunt over my level fairly easily. Any suggestions?

>skill
Jahira (at level 71), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 130 35
Physical Fitness...................| 105 25
Arcane Symbols.....................| 173 73
Magic Item Use.....................| 173 73
Harness Power......................| 209 109
Mental Mana Control................| 172 72
Spirit Mana Control................| 172 72
Mental Lore - Manipulation.........| 173 73
Perception.........................| 120 30
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 105 25
First Aid..........................| 319 219

Spell Lists
Major Spirit.......................| 40

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 40

Spell Lists
Empath.............................| 100

[Androidpk]

What combat maneuvers does training in PT help protect against?

[deadly]

ASK gib about 100 major spirit ranks and you will be informed of the awesomeness

[Xaerve]

Here is mine at 71. I hold a runestaff and use spirit slayer (240)/Bone shatter (1106) combo and can hunt over my level fairly easily. Any suggestions?

>skill
Jahira (at level 71), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 130 35
Physical Fitness...................| 105 25
Arcane Symbols.....................| 173 73
Magic Item Use.....................| 173 73
Harness Power......................| 209 109
Mental Mana Control................| 172 72
Spirit Mana Control................| 172 72
Mental Lore - Manipulation.........| 173 73
Perception.........................| 120 30
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 105 25
First Aid..........................| 319 219

Spell Lists
Major Spirit.......................| 40

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 40

Spell Lists
Empath.............................| 100

1) spell aiming is either 2x or 0x.
2) there is no reason to not be 1x PF
3) there is no reason to go over 1x HP

I also believe that 1x SMC is something that you should focus on post-cap, but the 1x MMC is essential for 1106/1115 benefits.

[Xaerve]

ASK gib about 100 major spirit ranks and you will be informed of the awesomeness

Do tell, because I can really think of no viable reason why you'd want to do that... And Gib knows very little about rogues, let alone empaths.

[Bhuryn]

I planned on getting 225, 135 and then putting everything into empath ranks till 100.

[deadly]

201, 210, 212, 214, 216, 217... having the extra ranks can help with these spells.

here is a 20 second clip of my empath in a warcamp. 240 +111=nasty
you should see my 240+1110 its even nastier the DF i have on that spell is just insane. in a few days ill have enough sunfist ranks to get heavy crit or heavy daage weighting to these spells which will make it even better.

so if you can tell me why having extra major ranks in this scool is a bad idea i would love to hear it.

You gesture at a Grimswarm giant dissembler.
You hurl a roaring ball of fire at a Grimswarm giant dissembler!
AS: +384 vs DS: +176 with AvD: +50 + d100 roll: +100 = +358
... and hit for 114 points of damage!
Flames cook a Grimswarm giant dissembler's chest. Looks about medium well.
The giant dissembler is stunned!
The roaring ball of fire strikes a Grimswarm giant dissembler, blossoming into a much larger sphere of flame upon impact.
... 20 points of damage!
Minor burns to abdomen. Looks painful.

A burst of flame from your roaring ball of fire flies off and hits a Grimswarm giant ranger.
... 10 points of damage!
Minor burns to chest. That hurts a bit.

A burst of flame from your roaring ball of fire flies off and hits a weathered Grimswarm giant ranger.
... 1 point of damage!
Minor burns to left hand. Ouch.

A burst of flame from your roaring ball of fire flies off and hits a Grimswarm giant soldier.
... 5 points of damage!
Minor burns to left hand. Ouch.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

Abruptly, you sense the attention of your spirit slayer focus upon a Grimswarm giant dissembler. The pattern of your spell is wrested away from you as the mote of white light flares with blinding brilliance.

Your spirit slayer hurls a roaring ball of fire at a Grimswarm giant dissembler!
AS: +412 vs DS: +176 with AvD: +50 + d100 roll: +78 = +364
... and hit for 136 points of damage!
Skin and some muscle burnt off chest.
[You have earned enough recognition points to be eligible for promotion.]
The giant dissembler rolls over and dies.
The tingling sensation and sense of security leaves a Grimswarm giant dissembler.
A Grimswarm giant dissembler glances around, looking a bit less confident.
The very powerful look leaves a Grimswarm giant dissembler.
The white light leaves a Grimswarm giant dissembler.
The brilliant luminescence fades from around a Grimswarm giant dissembler.
The guiding force leaves a Grimswarm giant dissembler.
The powerful look leaves a Grimswarm giant dissembler.
A Grimswarm giant dissembler recovers from being rebuked, regaining his composure.
The roaring ball of fire strikes a Grimswarm giant dissembler, blossoming into a much larger sphere of flame upon impact.

A burst of flame from your roaring ball of fire flies off and hits a Grimswarm giant ranger.
... 10 points of damage!
Minor burns to abdomen. Looks painful.

A burst of flame from your roaring ball of fire flies off and hits a weathered Grimswarm giant ranger.
... 1 point of damage!
Minor burns to left hand. Ouch.

A burst of flame from your roaring ball of fire flies off and hits a Grimswarm giant soldier.
... 15 points of damage!
Minor burns to chest. That hurts a bit.
J>
You don't have a spell prepared!
J>
Cast Round Time in effect: Setting stance to guarded.

J>
A Grimswarm giant ranger rushes in!
A Grimswarm giant fighter treads in, ready for combat!
A Grimswarm giant ranger strides in, glowering upon the scene.
J>111
A Grimswarm giant ranger decays into compost.
J>
You are now in an offensive stance.
J>
You utter a light chant and raise your hands, beckoning the lesser spirits to aid you with the Fire Spirit spell...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a Grimswarm giant ranger.
You hurl a roaring ball of fire at a Grimswarm giant ranger!
AS: +384 vs DS: +239 with AvD: +44 + d100 roll: +58 = +247
... and hit for 63 points of damage!
Burst of flames to back fries shoulder blades. Youch!
The roaring ball of fire strikes a Grimswarm giant ranger, blossoming into a much larger sphere of flame upon impact.
... 5 points of damage!
Minor burns to back. Looks uncomfortable.

A burst of flame from your roaring ball of fire flies off and hits a Grimswarm giant ranger.
... 5 points of damage!
Minor burns to back. Looks uncomfortable.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

Abruptly, you sense the attention of your spirit slayer focus upon a Grimswarm giant ranger. The pattern of your spell is wrested away from you as the mote of white light flares with blinding brilliance.

Your spirit slayer hurls a roaring ball of fire at a Grimswarm giant ranger!
AS: +412 vs DS: +233 with AvD: +44 + d100 roll: +62 = +285
... and hit for 75 points of damage!
Flames burn neck into a bubbling mass of flesh. Forget lunch.
The roaring ball of fire strikes a Grimswarm giant ranger, blossoming into a much larger sphere of flame upon impact.
... 20 points of damage!
Minor burns to chest. That hurts a bit.

A burst of flame from your roaring ball of fire flies off and hits a Grimswarm giant ranger.
... 5 points of damage!
Minor burns to chest. That hurts a bit.

A burst of flame from your roaring ball of fire flies off and hits a Grimswarm giant fighter.
... 1 point of damage!
Minor burns to left hand. Ouch.

A burst of flame from your roaring ball of fire flies off and hits a Grimswarm giant ranger.
... 10 points of damage!
Minor burns to right leg. That hurts a bit.

A burst of flame from your roaring ball of fire flies off and hits a weathered Grimswarm giant ranger.
... 3 points of damage!
Minor burns to left arm. That hurts a bit.

A burst of flame from your roaring ball of fire flies off and hits a Grimswarm giant soldier.
... 5 points of damage!
Minor burns to right eye. Foe blinks back the tears.


Your spirit slayer hurls a roaring ball of fire at a Grimswarm giant ranger!
AS: +412 vs DS: +227 with AvD: +44 + d100 roll: +99 = +328
... and hit for 114 points of damage!
Head reduced to a charred stump.
[You have earned enough recognition points to be eligible for promotion.]
The giant ranger rolls over and dies.
The wall of force disappears from around a Grimswarm giant ranger.
A Grimswarm giant ranger seems to lose some dexterity.
A Grimswarm giant ranger seems to lose an aura of confidence.
The powerful look leaves a Grimswarm giant ranger.
A Grimswarm giant ranger recovers from being rebuked, regaining her composure.
The roaring ball of fire strikes a Grimswarm giant ranger, blossoming into a much larger sphere of flame upon impact.

A burst of flame from your roaring ball of fire flies off and hits a Grimswarm giant ranger.
... 10 points of damage!
Minor burns to chest. That hurts a bit.

A burst of flame from your roaring ball of fire flies off and hits a Grimswarm giant fighter.
... 15 points of damage!
Minor burns to chest. That hurts a bit.

A burst of flame from your roaring ball of fire flies off and hits a Grimswarm giant ranger.
... 15 points of damage!
Minor burns to head. That hurt a bit.

A burst of flame from your roaring ball of fire flies off and hits a weathered Grimswarm giant ranger.
... 10 points of damage!
Minor burns to back. Looks uncomfortable.

A burst of flame from your roaring ball of fire flies off and hits a Grimswarm giant soldier.
... 10 points of damage!
Minor burns to right hand. Ouch.
J>
You don't have a spell prepared!
J>
Cast Round Time in effect: Setting stance to guarded.
J>
A Grimswarm giant ranger cocks his light crossbow and loads it with a plain wooden bolt.
A Grimswarm giant ranger fires a plain wooden bolt at you!
AS: +373 vs DS: +394 with AvD: +28 + d100 roll: +58 = +65
A clean miss.
The wooden bolt breaks apart and crumbles away.
J>
A weathered Grimswarm giant ranger stands up with a grunt.
J>111
You are now in an offensive stance.
J>
You utter a light chant and raise your hands, beckoning the lesser spirits to aid you with the Fire Spirit spell...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a Grimswarm giant soldier.
You hurl a roaring ball of fire at a Grimswarm giant soldier!
AS: +384 vs DS: +86 with AvD: +22 + d100 roll: +83 = +403
... and hit for 131 points of damage!
Left leg burned off at the knee. Ouch.
The giant soldier is knocked to the ground!
The roaring ball of fire strikes a Grimswarm giant soldier, blossoming into a much larger sphere of flame upon impact.
... 10 points of damage!
Minor burns to abdomen. Looks painful.

A burst of flame from your roaring ball of fire flies off and hits a Grimswarm giant ranger.
... 5 points of damage!
Minor burns to left arm. That hurts a bit.

A burst of flame from your roaring ball of fire flies off and hits a Grimswarm giant fighter.
... 10 points of damage!
Minor burns to neck. Looks uncomfortable.

A burst of flame from your roaring ball of fire flies off and hits a Grimswarm giant ranger.
... 10 points of damage!
Minor burns to left hand. Ouch.

A burst of flame from your roaring ball of fire flies off and hits a weathered Grimswarm giant ranger.
... 10 points of damage!
Minor burns to head. That hurt a bit.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

Abruptly, you sense the attention of your spirit slayer focus upon a Grimswarm giant soldier. The pattern of your spell is wrested away from you as the mote of white light flares with blinding brilliance.

Your spirit slayer hurls a roaring ball of fire at a Grimswarm giant soldier!
AS: +412 vs DS: +81 with AvD: +22 + d100 roll: +33 = +386
... and hit for 111 points of damage!
Abdomen bursts into flames. Would be funny without the blood.
The roaring ball of fire strikes a Grimswarm giant soldier, blossoming into a much larger sphere of flame upon impact.
... 5 points of damage!
Minor burns to abdomen. Looks painful.
J>
You don't have a spell prepared!
J>
Cast Round Time in effect: Setting stance to guarded.


You gesture at a Grimswarm giant wizard.
You hurl a radiant ball of energy at a Grimswarm giant wizard!
AS: +384 vs DS: +236 with AvD: +30 + d100 roll: +73 = +251
... and hit for 88 points of damage!
Shimmering beam of plasma nearly shears the giant wizard's neck in two!
[You have earned enough recognition points to be eligible for promotion.]
The giant wizard falls to the ground and dies.
The brilliant luminescence fades from around a Grimswarm giant wizard.
The bright luminescence fades from around a Grimswarm giant wizard.
As the giant wizard is vanquished, you refrain from infusing the effort further.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

[Xaerve]

1) I could've killed them all faster (and for less mana) with 1106 + 240

2) 201, 210, 212, 214, 216, 217 = useless spells!

:)

Its fun, but not optimal by any means.

[deadly]

when you group hunt like I do and Gib does. these do help quite a bit. so having a high cs in those is helpful. at 89 here is my cs

Your calculated Empath CS is: 435
Your calculated minor spiritual CS is: 381
Your calculated major spiritual CS is: 428

[onurb]

If you want maximum CS, this is what you want:

minor 67
major 67
empath 166

Thats 300 spell ranks with 3 left over. No matter where you put those extra 3 ranks, you won't get a CS increase. I chose to just spend my training points elsewhere than to throw them in minor for an extra 1 DS.

[Xaerve]

QED, GOB.

[Gibreficul]

Do tell, because I can really think of no viable reason why you'd want to do that... And Gib knows very little about rogues, let alone empaths.

Yea, my empath is always dieing, my build doesn't work, and my empath doesn't bulldoze through everything in the game... Because I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. Oh, and my rogue is even worse. If ignorant had a voice, it'd be the voice of all you naysayers when it comes to many of my game tactics. :lol:

<sarcasm below>
I mean, seriously, it's TOTALLY worth losing 35+ CS in your secondary circles in order to get an extra +10 or +20 to your main CS. <end sarcasm> C'mon dipshits....This game ain't one dimensional. It's nice to know I can use my full arsenal of spells instead of being forced to use a handful of spells that all you mainstream drones have established as the standard. I broke the mold and made a better one.


Gibreficul's empath's major spirit CS is 475, and growing.

[Danical]

Yea, my empath is always dieing, my build doesn't work, and my empath doesn't bulldoze through everything in the game... Because I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. Oh, and my rogue is even worse. If ignorant had a voice, it'd be the voice of all you naysayers when it comes to many of my game tactics. :lol:

<sarcasm below>
I mean, seriously, it's TOTALLY worth losing 35+ CS in your secondary circles in order to get an extra +10 or +20 to your main CS. <end sarcasm> C'mon dipshits....This game ain't one dimensional. It's nice to know I can use my full arsenal of spells instead of being forced to use a handful of spells that all you mainstream drones have established as the standard. I broke the mold and made a better one.


Gibreficul's empath's major spirit CS is 475, and growing.

What offensive spells are you using in the minor or major spiritual circles warranting more than 67 ranks in it?

Also, lulz @ "being forced to use [the best] spells"

[Gibreficul]

What offensive spells are you using in the minor or major spiritual circles warranting more than 67 ranks in it?

Also, lulz @ "being forced to use [the best] spells"

212, 210, 217, mainly. 201 is nice if I'm low on mana and would rather not deal with something. I can silence a room pretty quick, even sentries, considering my lore training. I wouldn't trade that buffed up CS in the major circle for anything. As YOU said, "the best" spells... alluding to 1106 and 1115, I assume. Exactly, they work, the endroll doesn't matter as much as it actually hitting, and I don't have any trouble hitting anything as is. (GWEs may be the exception) I build my characters with a "I'll be in a group" mentality these days, not the "solo hunter" mentality. Arguably rogues are the "worst" profession at dealing with swarms, and swarms aren't an empath's forte either. How I built the empath improves my odds in swarms. Again, I'm NOT following the mainstream cookie cutter path because.... I don't have to.

Gibreficul and crew.

[deadly]

i can say this.

taking gibs advise and training my empath similar to his. while we are grouped or solo i have no issues dealing with critters. when I do have issues hitting them the high cs in major spirit allows me to 212 to up my odds at landing on them. I dont hunt solo often so my current build allows me to help my group members more.

I really like the way gibs build is working for me even at level 90 its working great. I only have issues in nelemar if i get knocked down and stunned. Other than that I can pretty much handle myself in there.

[Danical]

if i get knocked down and stunned. Other than that I can pretty much handle myself in there.

Which is pretty much the only way you're going to die (charge/maneuver/void) anyway so what's the point of using a setup MA spell?

Insofar as Gib's MA crew is concerned, I would much much much rather rely on efficiency than Interference which is just a stupid way of saying, "I get hit you better on the next attack but you can still void/DC me within those 3 seconds." Your chance of silencing a Sentry still sucks even with 100 MjS. Moreover, if you don't silence or prevent the Sentry from casting within their action, they spawn with a prepped CS spell which will invariably hit unless you have lots of outside spells. Again, if you're MAing enough for that not to be problematic then you've rendered MjS ranks irrelevant.

Simply put, it's mechanically and pragmatically asinine to have 100 MjS.

[Gibreficul]

Which is pretty much the only way you're going to die (charge/maneuver/void) anyway so what's the point of using a setup MA spell?

Insofar as Gib's MA crew is concerned, I would much much much rather rely on efficiency than Interference which is just a stupid way of saying, "I get hit you better on the next attack but you can still void/DC me within those 3 seconds." Your chance of silencing a Sentry still sucks even with 100 MjS. Moreover, if you don't silence or prevent the Sentry from casting within their action, they spawn with a prepped CS spell which will invariably hit unless you have lots of outside spells. Again, if you're MAing enough for that not to be problematic then you've rendered MjS ranks irrelevant.

Simply put, it's mechanically and pragmatically asinine to have 100 MjS.


It's much more efficient to ignore sentries, if that's all you're looking for. I can tear through the 3rd floor with little to no effort. Fact is, empaths don't have a 1030 spell, or a 435 spell. Which spell am I supposed to take the sentry down with in 1 cast? You seem to be implying I'd have to wipe them out with a single cast to survive them, because they come prepped. So, enlighten me smart guy? What would YOU do? Better yet, I don't care, I don't have to answer to you... I've explained myself already, if you refuse to grasp it, I'm done.

:deadhorse:


Gibreficul :club:

GO PENGUINS!

[Danical]

Empaths really don't have a good means of preventing or disbatching sentries by design. Again, it's reasonably hard to 210 a sentry; which you said, "was easy with your lore training." Lore doesn't help you ward the sentry any better but rather, more targets.

What I'm getting at is that any empath can tear through the 3rd level and do it more efficiently if they stack their empath CS and that your claim that 100 MjS is better than 67 is false.

I'm not trying to bust your balls but I am calling it how I see it. I'm still of the contention that TPTB haven't incentivised MjS and MnS enough to warrant training past 67 at cap. Hopefully that changes with 235/250 and 150.

Also, I've already posted on the officials on more than one occasion that 1030 is grossly overpowered.

:shrug:

[Gibreficul]

Empaths really don't have a good means of preventing or disbatching sentries by design.

Yet, I found a way that works, that's relatively safe, and that I don't mind grinding through. It takes some setup, but it works.

Lemme show ya sumthing....


You are now targeting Gibreficul.
>inc 212
You trace a sign while beseeching the spirits to empower you with the Interference spell...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at Gibreficul.
CS: +*** - TD: +*** + CvA: +25 + d100: +51 - -5 == +212
Warding failed!
Gibreficul appears distracted.

Gibreficul makes a quick gesture while calling upon the powers of the elements...
>
Gibreficul gestures at you.
Gibreficul appears too distracted to succesfully cast his spell.
Nothing happens.


OOPs, Gib got hit with 212, tried to cast, and it failed due to 212. Consider doing that to a sentry... even without SILENCE, a setup with 212 gives a chance to prevent an effected target from casting, along with all the penalties it applies. My lore training forces an even bigger pushdown with a cast of 212, making it very attractive to use, and making all my other CS spells more effective due to the increased pushdown from my lore training. I mean, you've made it quite clear my lore training is not DIRECTLY effecting my ability to silence a sentry, and I'm aware of that too. It is, however, indirectly helping, since I setup with 212, and since the lore training causes that spell to have a greater TD pushdown when it hits.... and it does hit reliably due to my extra major spiritual ranks.

This build I'm using currently is an attempt to set myself up not only for the second floor, but perhaps the "post cap" hunting area that's been discussed. I really like the option to hunt the second floor much better than being stuck on the third floor without a chance in hell to do much on the second floor. Those spells are provided to the profession for a reason. Shame on you if you don't see the potential of them, and abuse the shit out of them as you see fit, as I have, and as I am.


I think I'll go for a hunt in the 2nd floor, and post the log. Maybe that's a better explanation than anything I could possibly write here.


Gibreficul and crew

[Gibreficul]

AS PROMISED....


An ethereal triton sentry drifts in, leaving no trace of his presence upon the water's surface.
>inc 212
You trace a sign while beseeching the spirits to empower you with the Interference spell...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at an ethereal triton sentry.
The dull golden nimbus surrounding an ethereal triton sentry suddenly begins to glow brightly.
CS: +475 - TD: +390 + CvA: +25 + d100: +43 == +153
Warding failed!
An ethereal triton sentry appears distracted.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>inc 210
...wait 1 seconds.
>inc 210
You trace a sign while beseeching the spirits to empower you with the Silence spell...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at an ethereal triton sentry.
The dull golden nimbus surrounding an ethereal triton sentry suddenly begins to glow brightly.
CS: +475 - TD: +395 + CvA: +25 + d100: +37 == +142
Warding failed!
A pall of silence settles over an ethereal triton sentry.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>
Gibreficul leaps from hiding to attack!
Gibreficul swings a slender blackened stiletto at an ethereal triton sentry!
AS: +508 vs DS: +379 with AvD: +20 + d100 roll: +90 = +239
... and hits for 78 points of damage!
Massive strike to the chest crashes through the triton sentry's back in a cloud of vapor.
Slowly, the triton sentry reforms its torso.
>incant 1115
>loot
You focus your thoughts while chanting the mystical phrase for Wither...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at an ethereal triton sentry.
Your mental command surges outward, echoing your need to the stray spirits nearby...
The dull golden nimbus surrounding an ethereal triton sentry suddenly begins to glow brightly.
CS: +475 - TD: +395 + CvA: +25 + d100: +3 == +108
Warding failed!
A nebulous haze shimmers into view around an ethereal triton sentry, plunging inward to envelop his right eye!
... 5 points of damage!
Quick strike to the face!
Just nicked an eyelid!
... 15 points of damage!
Decent shot to the right eye would have blinded a normal foe!
... 10 points of damage!
Nasty strike to the right eye causes it to dim a moment.
Cloudy tendrils writhe throughout the sentry's form, ravaging him for 7 points of damage!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>
Could not find a valid target to loot.
>
An ethereal triton sentry just went up some short ascending stairs.
>
Gibreficul put a slender blackened stiletto in his weapon harness.
>
Gibreficul removes a faenor-edged gold vultite handaxe from in his weapon harness.
>go stai
[Ruined Temple, Second Floor]
The shattered remnants of a large clay vase rest on a shelf carved into the northern wall, the shards adorned with painted waves. Some descending stairs rest at the base of an elaborately carved archway along the eastern wall, flanked by a pair of long extinguished fire pots. You also see an ethereal triton sentry, a triton radical, some short descending stairs and some muck.
Obvious exits: south, west
Gibreficul followed.
>incant 1115
>loot
You focus your thoughts while chanting the mystical phrase for Wither...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at an ethereal triton sentry.
Your mental command surges outward, echoing your need to the stray spirits nearby...
The dull golden nimbus surrounding an ethereal triton sentry suddenly begins to glow brightly.
CS: +475 - TD: +395 + CvA: +25 + d100: +30 == +135
Warding failed!
A nebulous haze shimmers into view around an ethereal triton sentry, plunging inward to envelop his back!
... 5 points of damage!
Misjudged timing.
You barely catch the triton sentry in the back!
... 35 points of damage!
Deft blow to the spine cuts along the ethereal bones.
Fillet of soul?
... 35 points of damage!
Deft blow to the spine cuts along the ethereal bones.
Fillet of soul?
... 25 points of damage!
Hard shot to the triton sentry's back sends it drifting forward!
Cloudy tendrils writhe throughout the sentry's form, ravaging him for 29 points of damage!
The triton sentry's face begins to hideously contort as ribbons of essence begin to wend away from him and into nothingness!
The bright luminescence fades from around an ethereal triton sentry.
The deep blue glow leaves an ethereal triton sentry.
A shadow seems to detach itself from an ethereal triton sentry, swiftly dissipating into the air.
The dull golden nimbus fades from around an ethereal triton sentry.
The brilliant luminescence fades from around an ethereal triton sentry.
An ethereal triton sentry glances around, looking a bit less confident.
The silvery luminescence fades from around an ethereal triton sentry.
An ethereal triton sentry seems less distracted.
The pall of silence leaves an ethereal triton sentry.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>
[fastfadeloot]>loot
Your disk arrives, following you dutifully.
>
A triton radical thrusts with a wide silvery green trident at Gibreficul!
AS: +495 vs DS: +431 with AvD: +29 + d100 roll: +26 = +119
... and hits for 2 points of damage!
Thrust catches chin.
Leaves an impression but no cut.
The guiding force leaves a triton radical.
>
You search the triton sentry.
You discard the sentry's useless equipment.
He had 728 silvers on him.
You gather the remaining 728 coins.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
He had a red dreamstone on him!
Interesting, he carried a copper lockpick on him.
He had nothing else of value.
The triton sentry fades into transparency, his remnants rapidly dissolving into the air.

My scrollback buffer isn't huge, there were a few more examples that hunt, but I finished the hunt after I got some examples, and didn't copy/paste them immediately, so that's what I was left with... Sometimes their TD was buffed up by about 405 or so against the first cast with 212. That would give me a 95% success rate to ward them instead of the "I miss if I fumble" failure that's so coveted these days. Gimme a break, the lil empath isn't even to 8 mil experience yet... i'm WORKING ON IT.

(I'm just breaking balls now, INSERT SARCASM HERE.) :deadhorse:

Yup, there's NO FUCKING REASON to train up the major spirit circle.... It's totally useless, and I have no chance to hit a sentry with silence, and it doesn't help whither pwn the fuck out of it.


Gibreficul

[StrayRogue]

Didn't you quit?

And does anyone actually hunt without a zombie these days?

[Danical]

stuff

WHOOSH!

Interference "somewhat" prevents a spell from being cast and you have to use it to guarantee success with 210. In those 3 seconds + latency, you're open for potentially devastating CS spells or void which is only marginally prevented by interference.

I wouldn't call letting myself be exposed in the open with only a marginal chance to prevent a life threatening attack a fantastic method of "pwning."

They're pures so you're better off using disarm on the sentry with Gib and putting it into 20 seconds of RT. Feint is also a great choice.

EDIT: Also, feint and disarm are immediate. Think about using those?

[deadly]

either way i agree with gib that his hunting method is very useful solo and even more useful when hunting with a group.

[Androidpk]

Didn't you quit?

And does anyone actually hunt without a zombie these days?

Yes.

[Gibreficul]

Yup, tried those... unreliable....

You're still missing the point. Totally missing the point, missing it by such a large margin that a nuclear bomb dropped on the point wouldn't even effect you with fallout. I could totally bump my empath CS up, and have a guaranteed chance to ward with 1115 without a setup, but that still doesn't prevent casting even a little bit. It doesn't guarantee a kill, it doesn't force RT, it doesn't do shit but damage. Unless it's a focused implosion, both the rogue and the empath should survive a cast of even dark catalyst. Considering they'll have the other standing there if they are in fact hit, they'll be covered.

Gib, solo, will feint sentries, attack twice, feint again, attack twice, feint again. Sure it works, but all I need is that one bad roll...and they'll get a cast off. Remember, maneuvers are both SKILL and LEVEL based, and sentries are base 103. Even at 5 ranks in feint, i'd consider that method WAY LESS RELIABLE, and WAY LESS EFFICIENT than how I'm currently handling them.

So, please just don't even reply. You've proven your ignorance and your closed mindedness. You don't have to play my characters, and hell, you don't even have to rescue them because my tactics work, and work well. I have never denied that there may in fact be a better way. I can't, however, claim that my way isn't possibly a better way, due to how most empaths tend to avoid the second floor like the plague, and mine goes into the second floor full throttle and with a definite purpose. Hell, arguably, I'm hunting the two professions that are at the biggest disadvantage in the second floor, and doing it successfully. There's something to be said for that.

:deadhorse:


Gibreficul

[deadly]

Gib wins!

you lose!

[Xaerve]

TLDR: Gib is once again arguing bullshit and resorting to name calling when proven wrong and Dan is right per usual!

In other news, "Big Lucifer" -- 240 + 1115 = instantly dead sentry, or 3 second dead sentry. Higher 1115 base CS = more crit factor being rolled into that sentry. Why the fuck would you want to "partially" distract or silence it first, to have it potentially kill you during that duration instead of killing it instantly, ALSO while you lower your overall ability to kill things quickly/instantly at the same time. Great logic!

Your other arguments are fucking retarded, and no one besides your fan boy is even trying to defend you. Dan already totally embarrassed you, so I'm not going to rehash everything.

Also, some notes on 240 for you (200s ranks don't do shit to help):


The Spirit Slayer spell summons a spirit from the surrounding area into being (seen when looking at the caster) that swirls around the caster. This spirit, when summoned, will have a large chance of re-casting an offensive spell cast by the cleric / empath at their target, with an increased strength.

The chance of double strike is 60% + (seed 1 Spiritual Lore, Summoning ranks)*2.

The Casting Strength (CS) boost is 25 + seed 5 Mana Control, Spiritual ranks.

The chance of triple and quadruple strikes is inversely related to the spell level.

[Danical]

Yup, tried those... unreliable....

You're still missing the point. Totally missing the point, missing it by such a large margin that a nuclear bomb dropped on the point wouldn't even effect you with fallout. I could totally bump my empath CS up, and have a guaranteed chance to ward with 1115 without a setup, but that still doesn't prevent casting even a little bit. It doesn't guarantee a kill, it doesn't force RT, it doesn't do shit but damage. Unless it's a focused implosion, both the rogue and the empath should survive a cast of even dark catalyst. Considering they'll have the other standing there if they are in fact hit, they'll be covered.

Gib, solo, will feint sentries, attack twice, feint again, attack twice, feint again. Sure it works, but all I need is that one bad roll...and they'll get a cast off. Remember, maneuvers are both SKILL and LEVEL based, and sentries are base 103. Even at 5 ranks in feint, i'd consider that method WAY LESS RELIABLE, and WAY LESS EFFICIENT than how I'm currently handling them.

So, please just don't even reply. You've proven your ignorance and your closed mindedness. You don't have to play my characters, and hell, you don't even have to rescue them because my tactics work, and work well. I have never denied that there may in fact be a better way. I can't, however, claim that my way isn't possibly a better way, due to how most empaths tend to avoid the second floor like the plague, and mine goes into the second floor full throttle and with a definite purpose. Hell, arguably, I'm hunting the two professions that are at the biggest disadvantage in the second floor, and doing it successfully. There's something to be said for that.

:deadhorse:


Gibreficul

I never brought up 1115. What you don't seem to realize because you'd rather be, perhaps intentionally, obtuse is that I'm arguing the efficiency of your MA team and that 100 MjS isn't helping you as much as you think.

Understand that against an average spawn sentry, gnimble without any Wspec has a 92% chance to hitting with feint.



>cman feint sent
[Roll result: 183 (open d100: 91) Penalties: 0]
You feint to the right, the triton sentry buys the ruse and twists awkwardly to block the blow that never came!
Roundtime: 3 sec.


If you had rank 5 wspec on your dagger then you'd automatically feint them which is better than using your MA slave to cast 212 on them THEN 210. Additionally, even if you only get an 80-100 outcome on the sentry it puts it into 2 seconds of RT. It's immediate, more efficient, and most importantly safer than using your 212 setup THEN 210 while leaving yourself open to spells. The entire crux of your argument against feint/disarm - that it's unreliable - has just been refuted with a simple demonstration.

You keep using straw mans and ridiculous red herrings in your arguments. Seriously, why?

Stop being unreasonably hyperbolic and instead be analytic. It's also probably best if you stop taking everything like a personal attack too. If you don't want to change then fine - no big deal! If you like the diversity that 100 MjS spells affords you then great. However, maybe you should look at the numbers instead of just throwing your hands in the air and calling people "ignorant" when you haven't done the number crunching and therefore misrepresent the argument at hand; that's just simply not constructive.

If you're still unwilling to be civil, the very least you could do is throw in a feint with Gib at the sentry while you use your 212/210 setup so it further augments, if not outright guarantees, the chance it won't cast at you until you silence it.

Finally, I'd still come and save you (because charge happens!) without bemoaning it because I don't take your insults personal; I know you've always argued this way so I guess I'm used to it.

[StrayRogue]

To be fair, there is never a 100% certainty of suceeding with a CMAN roll. Whilst a warding will only ever have a 99% chance at best, CMANs have the drawback of failing utterly.

[Stretch]

Anyone who has a capped rogue that isn't spec'd for range for anything but RP reasons fails at Gemstone.

[Danical]

To be fair, there is never a 100% certainty of suceeding with a CMAN roll. Whilst a warding will only ever have a 99% chance at best, CMANs have the drawback of failing utterly.

Both negative open rolls and CS fumbles happens at roughly the same frequency. However, sentries and radicals have 215 and it's bugged on them wherein it triggers waaaay more than it should therefore it causes fumbles (via more rerolls) more often.

Also, depending on the severity of the negative endroll, you may even trigger the 2 RT component of feint.

I've bugged it like 2039483098 times and "it's not a priority."

:shrug:

If anything, the above, skews the results more in favor of CMans.

[Gibreficul]

Anyone who has a capped rogue that isn't spec'd for range for anything but RP reasons fails at Gemstone.

Archer rogues do quite well in OTF, where the only non-corp is the lich things. Archer rogues are even worse off against non-corps, with the exception that they can probably stay hidden and plink away at them.

Gibreficul, non-archer, obviously fails at Gemstone, Stretch. That's a tragic reality I must now face and live with forever.

:tool:

Let's recap....

Someone started a thread called "capped empath spell mix"

I posted my current spells set, and I was told I'm wrong.

I posted the reasons for my spells being the way they are.

I'm again, told I'm wrong.

I again, support my reasons, fully admit there may be a better way, and guess what... I'm still told I'm wrong.

So, I'm going to go on being wrong, doing things the wrong way, because that's the way I do it. From my perspective, I'm doing everything right. You can hunt the third floor and be right, I'll hunt the second and be wrong. I'm fine with that.

As for Dan... I didn't discuss Gib's "tactics" originally because this is the empath folder. I explained what spells my empath uses, in what order, and why. Gib being there is moot, he's just doing some damage just because he's there. Feint is nice, true, but with only 3 ranks in wspec, daggers, it's not entirely effective. Couple that with having to switch to a handaxe to do any decent damage, it begins to be more trouble than it's worth. Also, I find that if I do that first attack, even with the dagger, from hiding and get the DS pushdown, as the empath casts 212, the damage is usually decent. The empath silences, gib switches to a handaxe and attacks... before Gib's roundtime is up from the handaxe, the empath tossed a shot of whither (and maybe a second) and the sentry is dead. Both group members did damage. Both group members get experience. I'll even skip silence with the empath if the sentry gets a cast off, because before it gets the next, it's dead.

My reasons aren't singularly focused. I feel I'm taking a more diverse approach to the game. I feel I'm opening options I otherwise wouldn't have. I could be dead wrong, but like I said, they're my characters to do with what I want, and right now, I'm more than happy with how the training plan is working for my empath singularly, for the rogue singularly, and for the two as a group.

[Xaerve]

TLDR: You were wrong, looked like an ass for your "name calling" and "crybabying," and still fail at gemstone!

[Gibreficul]

TLDR: You were wrong, looked like an ass for your "name calling" and "crybabying," and still fail at gemstone!

Right, and like I said, I'll hunt the 2nd floor, with the "mean" critters, and be wrong, and you can stay up on the 3rd floor where it's safe and be right. I'm fine with that...

:troll:

And I'll fail at Gemstone a million times over... You fail at life. I'm fine with that too.

:tool:

[Kitsun]

It blows my mind that SP is even considering choosing here. Just train in it all!

(at level 100), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 40 8
Shield Use.........................| 50 10
Brawling...........................| 5 1
Physical Fitness...................| 403 303
Arcane Symbols.....................| 120 30
Magic Item Use.....................| 120 30
Harness Power......................| 302 202
Mental Mana Control................| 200 100
Spirit Mana Control................| 200 100
Spiritual Lore - Blessings.........| 302 202
Mental Lore - Manipulation.........| 150 50
Mental Lore - Transformation.......| 157 57
Survival...........................| 210 110
Perception.........................| 120 30
Climbing...........................| 201 101
Swimming...........................| 201 101
First Aid..........................| 403 303
Trading............................| 302 202

Spell Lists
Major Spirit.......................| 80

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 80

Spell Lists
Empath.............................| 143
Training Points: 38 Phy 0 Mnt (4786 Phy converted to Mnt)
(Use SKILLS BASE to display unmodified ranks and goals)

This split gives my elf empath a nice, even 500CS. Web is pretty seriously nice for war griffins.

[Gibreficul]

Spell Lists
Major Spirit.......................| 80

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 80

Spell Lists
Empath.............................| 143
Training Points: 38 Phy 0 Mnt (4786 Phy converted to Mnt)
(Use SKILLS BASE to display unmodified ranks and goals)

This split gives my elf empath a nice, even 500CS. Web is pretty seriously nice for war griffins.

That's actually pretty close to what I had before the fixskills. (minus empath spells past 100 ranks) Since I'm 2x in spell aim, if I'm webbing something, it's going to be with web-bolt. Unbalance was the only spell I'd actually use that required CS in the minor circle. The only things I unbalanced on a regular basis were combatants, which I was warding by a HUGE margin, so a drop in that circle's CS wouldn't effect anything. And... wow, that's a lot of blessing lore.

[Beguiler]

... Web is pretty seriously nice for war griffins.


Question, don't you need 20 ranks of Spiritual Lore: Summoning for Web Bolt?

[Xaerve]

Yes, but it does not work nearly as effectively as the CS version, unless you have a lot of summoning lore. Effectively = taking them to the ground.

Bolt web does work 100% of the time as a BOLT WEB spell with 20 ranks, but the take down is highly variable.

[Beguiler]

Yes, but it does not work nearly as effectively as the CS version, unless you have a lot of summoning lore. Effectively = taking them to the ground.

Bolt web does work 100% of the time as a BOLT WEB spell with 20 ranks, but the take down is highly variable.

Mkay, I'm being dense here, then. I have the summoning lore, MOC and 2x Spell Aim, and do very well with focused web bolts. What is the deal with the CS version? is that the non-focused, area web? Enlighten me, I am confuzzled! (I still have a shitton of summoning lore, but for other things I like...still..)

[Xaerve]

Regular web is just a CS warding. If you have a high 100's CS, you'll ward more often than not. Depending on your Summoning Lore:100's Rank ratio, one is more viable than the other.

With 67/67/166 the CS version is currently more viable for me than bolting with my 20 ranks of summoning lore -- explicitly for the purpose of taking griffins down to the ground. You can cast the "CS" version in guarded, too (even you can with all your lore!) :)

[Gibreficul]

Mkay, I'm being dense here, then. I have the summoning lore, MOC and 2x Spell Aim, and do very well with focused web bolts. What is the deal with the CS version? is that the non-focused, area web? Enlighten me, I am confuzzled! (I still have a shitton of summoning lore, but for other things I like...still..)

There's 3 versions of 118. The first version is the direct cast at someone, from a "defensive" stance, typically. It's a CS based spell that forces some TD pushdown.

The second version is the "area web" open cast. It puts the web in the room, and makes critters subject to an invisible warding check when they move out of the room or attack.

The third version is the web-bolt spell. It requires at least 20 summoning lore ranks and does initial damage, and cause the target to be webbed, and a knockdown (similar to unbalance.) If you're heavy on summoning lore and have the spell aiming ranks, web-bolt is BY FAR the best of the three. At 100 ranks, I knock down and web probably 90% or more of anything I hit with it, assuming they aren't immune to webs or unbalancing.

:irule: