Random (official) GM posts

[thefarmer]

With all the folders on the officials, sometimes there's useful (in varying degrees) information buried in odd threads or from conversations that have taken different courses. I figured a place to keep them in no particular order or topic would be beneficial. Especially due to the official boards being junk.

I'll start.


Phantasmal Beastial Swordsmen · on 4/4/2009 6:06:51 PM 582
The special ability of the swordsmen, to vanish and reappear thus negating your attack seems to have a fairly high % rate of triggering.

I was just wondering exactly what that % is. By my own, admitedly untrained counting, it seems to be about 20% of the time.

My other question is, how does that factor into EBP? Which one 'rolls' for triggering first? Does the 'vanish ability' roll first, or does it go through the whole EBP first?

Is there a way to negate their 'vanish ability' besides phase? It would seem to reason they should not be able to do it if they are in RT. Of course, that's ascribing a quality of will to the ability, rather it could be reflexive.



Re: Phantasmal Beastial Swordsmen · on 4/4/2009 6:11:30 PM 583
>>I was just wondering exactly what that % is. By my own, admitedly untrained counting, it seems to be about 20% of the time.

10%.

>>My other question is, how does that factor into EBP? Which one 'rolls' for triggering first? Does the 'vanish ability' roll first, or does it go through the whole EBP first?

Vanish triggers before EBP.

>>Is there a way to negate their 'vanish ability' besides phase? It would seem to reason they should not be able to do it if they are in RT. Of course, that's ascribing a quality of will to the ability, rather it could be reflexive.

Nope. It works identically to other non-corp undead phase out abilities insofar as Phase (704) is your only chance at guaranteed avoidance.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Cleric/Empath Team
Voln/CoL Guru

[Fallen]

Yeah. Tons of stuff like this. I try to post the most relevant stuff, but I will try to throw the rest of it in here when I come across it.

[radamanthys]

Thread= Winnar.

Carry on.

[thefarmer]

8/10/2008-repost by khariz

Originally Posted by GM Coase
In response to player concerns, we have modified our previous changes to the padding system:

Padded partial armor has been restored to allow its padding to give full protection to partially covered areas by default. If an armor accessory with the same type of padding is worn over top of either full coverage or partial armor, then only the highest level of padding will apply. For example, lightly damage padded full plate in combination with a heavily damage padded helm would result in heavy damage padding on hits to the head and light damage padding on every other type of hit.

If padded armor is combined with specially enhanced armor accessories (or vice versa), then the previously announced system of averaging bonuses will continue to be used. Specially enhanced armor includes: differing types of padding (i.e. combining damage and critical padding on a hit location), armor that is resistant to specific damage types, blessed armor, TD enhancing armor, flaring armor, and spiked armor.

Added second part due to Evarin's forgetfulness...

QUESTION:
>>This has come up several times but we've never received a definitive answer from the staff. Do enhancive armor accessories act as 'specially enhanced' pieces(as per your earlier and very informative post) when determining final bonuses for stacked armor?
-Droit

ANSWER:
>No, it does not.
-Coase

[thefarmer]

================================================== ===============================

Re: Does Silent Strike work with Aim? · on 9/4/2008 5:07:28 PM 11468


Reply
IOI: 4

I just posted a reply to the other thread, but to sum up:

Aimed strike using AMBUSH - Full crit modifier
Silent Strike (may not be aimed) - Full crit modifier
Regular attack from hiding - Half crit modifier

(The DS pushdown is the same in all cases.)

- Consigliere Ildran, Shizlock Holmesplice

Re: Does Silent Strike work with Aim? · on 9/6/2008 8:56:56 AM 11475


Reply
IOI: 4

>If I have a target set (aim head) and ambush from hiding "ambush" I get full crit modifier, and aiming bonus?

Yep, AMBUSH {target} with a default aiming location set works exactly the same as doing AMBUSH {target} {default aiming location}.

- Consigliere Ildran, Shizlock Holmesplice
https://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=102&category=28&topic=14&message=11475

Re: Does Silent Strike work with Aim? · on 9/5/2008 8:57:22 PM 11473


Reply
IOI: 3
>The difference between #3 and 4 I believe being that #3 puts you in more RT, so hopefully would have a better crit modifier than #4.

Short version from other thread: #3 does give you extra RT for no benefit. Use #4.

- Consigliere Ildran, Shizlock Holmesplice

Talking about these numbers:
1 Aimed strike using AMBUSH - Full crit modifier
2 Silent Strike (may not be aimed) - Full crit modifier
3 Unaimed strike using AMBUSH - half crit modifier + extra RT
4 ATTACK from hiding - Half crit modifier



Reply
Here ya go, Nova.

https://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=102&category=28&topic=14&message=11468
https://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=102&category=28&topic=14&message=11473




IOI: 4

>Well, now. That's interesting. A fact about ambushing of which I was entirely unaware. Given that I'm not in game and don't really have time to go experiment at the moment, a clarification request. If you use an unaimed ambush, do you get no benefit whatsoever, or do you still get the DS pushdown but not the crit modifier?

Any attack from hiding (regardless of the command used) gets the same DS pushdown. Note that unaimed attacks from hiding get half of the crit modifier, not none. By "doesn't get you anything" I meant "doesn't get you anything beyond what you'd get by using ATTACK".

- Ildran
http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=102&category=4&topic=4&message=13055.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[thefarmer]

>>Actually Zyllah, Oscuro said that warriors had a huge bonus to dodge the roa'ter burrow, not rogues.

You're both right. Warriors had the largest professional bonus, then Rogues had the 2nd largest. I don't recall any other professions getting a bonus. As it stands now, Warriors and Rogues are more likely to be the classes that have the appropriate training to most successfully dodge and/or mitigate roa'ter burrows.

And as an on-topic side note: Hurray for armor specializations! I'm loving "spelling people up" with my new Rogue buff. ;)

= - GM Oscuro - =

[Khariz]

8/10/2008-repost by khariz

Originally Posted by GM Coase
In response to player concerns, we have modified our previous changes to the padding system:

Padded partial armor has been restored to allow its padding to give full protection to partially covered areas by default. If an armor accessory with the same type of padding is worn over top of either full coverage or partial armor, then only the highest level of padding will apply. For example, lightly damage padded full plate in combination with a heavily damage padded helm would result in heavy damage padding on hits to the head and light damage padding on every other type of hit.

If padded armor is combined with specially enhanced armor accessories (or vice versa), then the previously announced system of averaging bonuses will continue to be used. Specially enhanced armor includes: differing types of padding (i.e. combining damage and critical padding on a hit location), armor that is resistant to specific damage types, blessed armor, TD enhancing armor, flaring armor, and spiked armor.

Added second part due to Evarin's forgetfulness...

QUESTION:
>>This has come up several times but we've never received a definitive answer from the staff. Do enhancive armor accessories act as 'specially enhanced' pieces(as per your earlier and very informative post) when determining final bonuses for stacked armor?
-Droit

ANSWER:
>No, it does not.
-Coase

Here's the full version:


Originally Posted by GM Coase
In response to player concerns, we have modified our previous changes to the padding system:

Padded partial armor has been restored to allow its padding to give full protection to partially covered areas by default. If an armor accessory with the same type of padding is worn over top of either full coverage or partial armor, then only the highest level of padding will apply. For example, lightly damage padded full plate in combination with a heavily damage padded helm would result in heavy damage padding on hits to the head and light damage padding on every other type of hit.

If padded armor is combined with specially enhanced armor accessories (or vice versa), then the previously announced system of averaging bonuses will continue to be used. Specially enhanced armor includes: differing types of padding (i.e. combining damage and critical padding on a hit location), armor that is resistant to specific damage types, blessed armor, TD enhancing armor, flaring armor, and spiked armor.

Returning to the original examples given, here is how they would be affected by this revision:

Player is wearing "decently" damage padded light leather and no helm. He gets hit in the head. He would have an effective damage padding level of "decent". [The base padding level is that of the partial armor]

Player is wearing "decently" damage padded light leather and a "very heavily" damage padded helm. He gets hit in the head. He would have an effective damage padding level of "very heavy". [Only the best level of damage padding is applied]

Player is wearing "decently" damage padded light leather and a "heavily" crit padded helm. He gets hit in the head. He would have an effective damage padding level of "fair" and an effective crit padding level of "somewhat" ([decent + 0] / 2 = fair, [very heavy + 0] / 2 = somewhat). [No change]

Player is wearing "somewhat" damage padded half plate and no leg greaves. He gets hit in the legs. He would have an effective damage padding level of "somewhat" (full protection), as half plate fully covers the legs. [No change]

Player is wearing "somewhat" damage padded half plate and is wearing "very heavily" damage padded leg greaves. He gets hit in the legs. He would have an effective damage padding level of "very heavy". [Again, only the best level of one particular padding type is applied]

Player is wearing "somewhat" damage padded half plate and puts on unpadded leg greaves. He gets hit in the legs. He would have an effective damage padding level of "somewhat". [Again, best level of padding.]

Some additional examples:

Player is wearing unpadded chain hauberk and puts on "very heavily" critical padded leg greaves. He gets hit in the legs. He would have an effective critial padding level of "very heavy". [Again, best level of padding]

Player is wearing "very heavily" damage padded chain hauberk and puts on a blessed helm. He gets hit in the head. He would would have an effective damage padding level of "somewhat" ([very heavy + 0] / 2 = somewhat). [Combining padded armor with a specially enhanced accessory results in the padding level being averaged]

Coase

[yesicj]

Even though I don't have the date on it anymore (and I tried to look up the post, but the officials being what they are it's gone now), and I have my reservations that it'll ever really amount to anything in terms of getting what you want, here's a post on the GS era by Andraste that might be helpful:


Time advances slowly in GS, it seems. Last time I "checked in" on around what period we try to hold to as a "genre" -- the fantasy element taken somewhat into context -- I was advised that anything circa 1675 and below was pretty much fine, although some things up through the mid-1800s that weren't too recognizeable as "modern" might work.

And this is the link to the post from when it still existed:
http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=102&category=9&topic=17&message=2858

[GSIVMerchant21]

Farmer, can you please find the post where crush/slash/puncture resistence was first implemented? I searched this forums pretty well and can't find it. Only found flaring/spiked armor. Or point me in the right direction and I'll search for it. Thanks

[thefarmer]

Farmer, can you please find the post where crush/slash/puncture resistence was first implemented? I searched this forums pretty well and can't find it. Only found flaring/spiked armor. Or point me in the right direction and I'll search for it. Thanks

I wasn't around when it was, but I can answer most questions.

[thefarmer]

Well I heard slash resistence doesn't help with cutthroat either. I found it doesn't work with hamstring. Is it supposed to?

A kiramon defender darts behind you quickly and tries to hamstring you with its pincers!
[Roll result: 102 (open d100: 53)]
With a vicious double-strike the kiramon defender slashes at your right hamstring!
... 4 points of damage!



Re: Slash resist manuevers? · on 4/6/2009 10:08:49 PM 3145


Reply
Cutthroat and Hamstring are special maneuvers whose primary functions are to bypass the target's armor in order to do highly specific damage (to the vocal chords for Cutthroat and the hamstring muscles for Hamstring). Padding, resistances, flares, armor divisors, and the like are thus all bypassed when the maneuver succeeds.

Coase

Moar

[thefarmer]

From Droit, via KP:


Category: Game Design Discussions
Topic: Critters and Creatures
Message number: 4582
Author: GS4-MESTYS
Date: 4/27/2007 8:37:17 pm
Subject: Re: Stronghold Bowels


>Number one:

A massive boulder comes barrelling into view!
In a vain attempt, you leap to avoid the speeding boulder! The krynch strikes you squarely, crushing you beneath it and the ground!
... 45 points of damage!
Awesome shot collapses one of your lungs!
You are stunned for 6 rounds!
Roundtime: 20 sec.

This is pretty much as bad a result as is possible for this maneuver. The various negative status effects can be mitigated or completely avoided based on a standard maneuver roll (see last paragraph).

>Secondly, the illoke doing their "teleport to you" maneuver that gives them no RT and casting stone fist immediately. I can deal with the no prep time for stone fist, it's just how they can step out of the wall and cause instant death that annoys me. Can't they have at least one round of RT after teleporting to me from half the bowels away?

Both the Illoke jarls and Illoke elders have Transference (225) in their respective repertoires, which does take up a normal amount of roundtime upon casting. The only functional differences between their version and the players' is the messaging and their ability to use it to target players in the area.

Their Stone Fist is also mechanically a spell, and if they are casting it without first preparing, it is a bug.

>Third, does the bowels really have to be unlocatable? It's not like there are really many people in the Landing capable of coming in there and rescuing me anyway (illoke always like to swarm around a corpse and kill people instantly when they come in), but I'd sort of like the rare opportunity to have someone attempt to rescue me.

The prevention of magical location within the hunting ground is indeed intended. It's meant to be a facet of the area itself.

>Now, an honest question. Are the illoke supposed to teleport behind the opening (where the earth elementals and krynches generate)? They don't ever spawn back there, but if I run through to the opening, the illoke will inevitably teleport to me (often just after I attack something and get into RT) after perhaps five or ten minutes of being back there. There aren't even people in the main area to generate them in the first place as far as I know.

The room range of the Illoke creatures' version of Transference is solely comprised of the whole of the Thanatoph Bowels. Even if you're not in a section in which they normally generate, they can still teleport to a valid target anywhere in the area; and since it is all considered one area, they will generate in their normal range of rooms.

>Another honest question -- why are the illoke so vulnerable to arrows? They're stone-like creatures, and yet arrows to the eye tear through them faster than I can use my axe to kill kobolds -- because sniping to the eye takes three seconds, versus my five second swing to kill a kobold.

This is a result of the Illoke creatures' natural armor, which is roughly equivalent to chain hauberk. This is in contrast to many of their rocky allies, who tend to be closer to full plate. It's much easier to achieve an endroll to get that puncture death critical on the former versus the latter. You might consider swapping out to a nice dagger against them, assuming you ambush and have a reliable means of knockdown.

>Lastly, what exactly helps in dodging stone fist? It doesn't seem to be physical skills (since I get hit every time), and yet it doesn't seem to be magical skills (since casters get hit almost every time). -Grendeg

The Illoke creatures' Stone Fist spell is primarily based around the standard maneuver roll. Spells such as Mobility (618), Prayer (313), and Dauntless (1606) will benefit you. Ranks in Combat Maneuvers, Perception, and Physical Fitness will also be of assistance. The Dexterity and Agility stats also play a role.

-M.

[Allereli]

Crumbly enhancive item value adjustment · on 4/7/2009 10:37:12 PM 1955


To better reflect the transient nature of enhancive items made to crumble after their final charges are gone, the assessed value of these items has been reduced. The silver value of enhancive properties of crumbly items will now be 2/3 of the value of the same properties in a non-crumbly item. Players might most readily see this change reflected in the reduced cost to recharge crumbly items using Adventurer's Guild bounty points.

Weapons, armor, and containers are already prevented from crumbling by the system, and are thus unaffected by this change.

Short-duration items that are activated for enhancive effect (like potions) are also unaffected by this change.

-Strath

This message was originally posted in Game Design Discussions, Items and Inventory. To discuss the above follow the link below.

http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=102&category=6&topic=11&message=1729

[DoctorUnne]

IOI: 4

>For the nth time this has been brought up, can we get at least an official comment on this? I have not once seen an official comment dealing directly with these same issues that have been brought up over and over.

I've commented on it many times before, but I can certainly do so again.

The problems with Stun Maneuvers largely fall into two groups: the balance of the skill, and the workiness of the skill.

As far as workiness, Stun Maneuvers definitely has some major issues, but I've spent a good amount of time investigating them and they're unfortunately very difficult to resolve. The problems with STUN MOVE and being unable to go in particular directions, for instance, have to do with the basic design of the movement system (which, as you can probably imagine, isn't something one messes with lightly). I've got a partial solution to that which will work in some instances, but solving it entirely isn't feasible.

As far as the balance, in general we don't feel that it's significantly out of balance. On the one hand, Stun Maneuvers is not intended to be quite as good as some of the other stun-mitigating skills, because Rogues have pretty good passive and active defenses. We look at professions as a whole, we don't compare similar skills in a vacuum, so Stun Maneuvers not being as good as Berserk does not, a priori, mean that Stun Maneuvers must be improved. On the other hand, there seem to be some misconceptions about how Stun Maneuvers works, which I can hopefully help with.

>Takes amazing amounts of RT regardless of success.
>-RT usually lasts longer than the stun for light stuns. Light stuns, of course, only work about 50% of the time, leaving you standing in the open with RT when you're no longer stunned.

It should take 5 seconds if you're mastered (more if you're not), which I wouldn't really call amazing. (If it's not taking 5 seconds, let me know.) By definition, this is more than a stun of less than 5 seconds, but if you have a 5 second stun and are mastered then you should have the maximum 95% chance of success for every skill.

>Has an amazingly high chance to fail and do absolutly >nothing but incur RT and waste stamina (which doesn't >matter because you are dead anyway if you need this and >it doesn't work)

I suspect you're exclusively attempting to use STUN MOVE. MOVE is by far the hardest skill; your success margin with MOVE can be as much as 40% lower than STANCE2, the next hardest skill, which is itself significantly harder than the ones below it. MOVE is definitely a crap shoot, but all the others can be pretty good, depending on your DIS bonus.

>-I may be wrong on this one, but last I checked we can't go into rooms that aren't basic cardinal directions.

You can go through portals with STUN MOVE.

>-Completely worthless for magical stuns
>-About 90-95% worthless for heavy physical stuns

Magical stuns are no harder to use Stun Maneuvers out of than physical stuns. (I don't know when this changed, since I believe it was true when the skill was released many years ago, and I'm not sure if we've stated this before, but it is so.)

>-Uses the same amount of stamina regardless of success. While this may make sense for something like subdue or sweep, that is because when you attempt subdue or sweep you still go through the motion whether or not you're successful. A failed stun maneuver attempt results in you doing nothing. Why does this cost so much stamina?

You're still trying just as hard when you fail as when you succeed. Just because you failed doesn't mean you didn't expend as much energy in the attempt.

(Note that all of these are what should be happening. Stun Maneuvers is weird enough that there's certainly a possibility that they're not happening, which would be a bug. If you like, I can watch you use the skill and see what your chance of success is under various circumstances, to make sure it lines up with what should be happening.)

- Consigliere Ildran, Shizlock Holmesplice

[StrayRogue]

As far as the balance, in general we don't feel that it's significantly out of balance. On the one hand, Stun Maneuvers is not intended to be quite as good as some of the other stun-mitigating skills, because Rogues have pretty good passive and active defenses. We look at professions as a whole, we don't compare similar skills in a vacuum, so Stun Maneuvers not being as good as Berserk does not, a priori, mean that Stun Maneuvers must be improved. On the other hand, there seem to be some misconceptions about how Stun Maneuvers works, which I can hopefully help with.


Um, rogues have decent passive/active defenses? No better than a warrior who get berzerk. Can we get someone with some actual sense working with the profession?

It was a real shame when the huge guild skill revamp came in and beefed up most skills yet left subdue and stun man in the dust.

[DoctorUnne]

I saw that this post was about to get washed away on the officials and rescued it. It's Anathemus' last post before he left which detailed all of his findings on redux in one location. It's not from a GM but he did extensive testing and it's got a lot of good info on redux.

Comrades,

I am leaving GemStone. I simply do not have time to play any longer. Before I leave, I want to put in one document everything I?ve figured out about redux.

Even the most basic understanding of Damage Reduction (redux) has prerequisites. Redux applies to AS/DS resolutions, which look like this:

Anathemus swings a broadsword at you!
AS: +130 vs DS: +55 with AvD: +36 + d100 roll: +48 = +159
... and hits for 37 points of damage!
Deep, bloody slash to your right thigh!
You are knocked to the ground!
You are stunned for 3 rounds!

For any given hit, one can obtain a value for raw damage and crit damage.

Raw damage is that damage that is solely a result of the endroll (marked above in bold) and the Damage Factor (DF), which itself depends only on weapon type, torso worn armor, and various multipliers such as CMAN Mighty Blow.

Crit damage is significantly more complicated; the game takes the sum of raw damage and crit padding or weighting and divides by the crit divisor, which depends on location hit, torso worn armor, and relevant armor accessories worn. The truncation of this quotient is the crit rank, which cannot exceed a value of 9. The actual crit rank for any given hit can range from this maximum to one half of it, rounded up. Once obtained, the actual crit rank is checked against a crit table specific to the damage type (e.g. slash, puncture) and body part (e.g. left eye, abdomen) and a crit message is selected that corresponds to a specific amount of crit damage.

Note: Crit padding cannot reduce what would have been a crit rank 1 or higher to a crit rank 0, and crit weighting cannot increase what would have been a crit rank 0 to a crit rank 1 or higher.

The sum of raw damage and crit damage, plus damage weighting or padding, is referred to as total damage. It is generally accepted that redux does not apply to damage weighting or padding, making hits involving either quantity unacceptable for redux calculations. [Incidentally, this is probably worth testing by someone at some point.]

When the defender has redux, the amount of total damage taken is reduced. This is a fairly recent modification to redux, taking place sometime around or after the switch from GemStone 3 to GemStone 4. In GemStone 3, redux applied only to raw damage (hence the archaic names ?Damage Factor Reduction? and ?DFRedux?). As such, calculators or methodologies using this approach are no longer accurate and will provide wildly divergent measurements. Unfortunately, the full interactions of redux are not yet known. To first order, it is permissible to define a Redux Factor (RF) as follows:

RF = 1 ? reduced total damage / unreduced total damage

Thus, a character that experienced no reduction would have an RF of .000. Let us return to the example given previously.

Anathemus swings a broadsword at you!
AS: +130 vs DS: +55 with AvD: +36 + d100 roll: +48 = +159
... and hits for 37 points of damage!
Deep, bloody slash to your right thigh!
You are knocked to the ground!
You are stunned for 3 rounds!

Reduced total damage refers to the ??and hits for? message. In GemStone, damage is rounded to the nearest whole integer or one if it would be rounded to zero. This uncertainty is negligible in almost every case. To obtain unreduced total damage, one requires a DF table, the endroll, and a table of crit messages. The crit message is that marked above in bold. It is not necessary to know how much crit padding or crit weighting occurred in any given hit, which is good because such information is impossible to obtain in the overwhelming majority of cases.

Unreduced raw damage is obtained by subtracting 100 from the endroll and multiplying by the Damage Factor, which is itself obtained by matching the weapon type (falchion, handaxe, etc.) to the armor group (Clothing, Soft Leather, Rigid Leather, Chain, Plate).

Unreduced crit damage is obtained by matching the crit message to the table. In very few cases, the same crit message can be used in more than one crit rank for more than one value of crit damage: it is best to discard these hits.

It is also best to discard any hit that has an especially low amount of damage relative to the granularity of GemStone rounding, for example a hit that only does 3 or 4 damage.

.

For this hit, we first find a reduced total damage of 37. Consulting a table, we find that a broadsword vs. clothing has a Damage Factor of .450, giving us a value for unreduced raw damage of:

URD = (159 - 100) * .450 = 26.55 = 27

Next, we obtain a value for unreduced crit damage of 17 for the rank 4 puncture crit to the left arm. Finally, we find a Redux Factor value of:

RF = 1 - 37/(27 + 17) = 1 - 37/44 = .159

Second Order

.

It has been shown that the ratio of crit to total damage (CDR) has a significant effect on the redux factor demonstrated for that hit. For the purposes of this section, it is useful to propose a baseline or average RF from which actual or observed values deviate, and the same for CDR. More specifically, the deviation of any given hit?s CDR from the baseline value in hundredths will cause a deviation of 2.5 thousandths in the opposite direction from the baseline RF. The baseline RF for a character is determined by level, redux skills trained, and spells known. The baseline CDR is somewhat more difficult to define, but in the interests of universality the author has proposed a baseline value of .24 for all characters and hits. This is not to say that the average hit for the average character has such a CDR, but that it is roughly representative of the mean for all usual hits. Returning to the previous example:

Anathemus swings a broadsword at you!
AS: +130 vs DS: +55 with AvD: +36 + d100 roll: +48 = +159
... and hits for 37 points of damage!
Deep, bloody slash to your right thigh!
You are knocked to the ground!
You are stunned for 3 rounds!

The CDR can be easily calculated as:

CDR = 17 / 44 = .386

Note that it is immaterial whether one uses both reduced or both unreduced values: it is fundamental to this understanding of redux that both crit damage and raw damage are reduced at the same rate, causing the redux factors to cancel out!

The deviation is thus:

delCDR = .386 - .240 = .146 = 14.6 hundredths

And one would expect a deviation in the RF of:

14.6 hundredths * -2.5 thousandths/hundredth = -36.5 thousandths = -.0365

Finally suggesting a baseline RF for this character of:

True RF = .159 + .0365 = .1955 = .196

Even with this correction, however, there is non-negligible randomization in the value obtained for RF. It is not within the purview of the author to decree what level of uncertainty is acceptable for any given player, but it is noted that after 10 to 15 hits further deviations of the averaged RF are quite small with this methodology.

It is extremely useful to have a single value with which one can usefully compare various training plans and situations.

.

Crit Divisors

.

Though this effect does not impact calculation of redux factors, it is worth noting that the crit divisor of a character with redux is measurably lower than that of a character without redux for equal armor conditions. This does not cause the character with redux to be at an overall defensive disadvantage to the character without. The quantitative effect is roughly:

1 ? RF/3

which is applied to the crit divisor in question. Thus, a character with no redux would have no crit divisor depression while a character with perfect (1) redux would experience a crit divisor of 6 in chain (2/3 * 9).

.

Order of Mark

.

It is also possible to formulate an entirely distinct theory of redux. Mark (who posts under SPYRIDONM on these boards) has proposed a two-RF theory that roughly speaking goes as follows: when the damage taken is under a certain threshold, a constant RF1 is applied only to raw damage; crit damage is not reduced. Once past this threshold, all damage is reduced more or less as stated above. There are several consequences to viewing redux through this lens, but it is the opinion of the author that both theories have their merits (indeed, for sufficiently large endrolls they become indistinguishable!).

.

Redux from Skills

.

It is somewhat more difficult to obtain a value for RF from skills alone. It has been shown by Porcell that the relative values of the redux skills are as follows:

Primary (physical fitness): 1
Secondary (armor, TWC, ambush, MOC, dodge, CM, shield): .4
Tertiary (weapon): .3

It has further been shown that the threshold for obtaining redux is roughly 109 redux points, though this number increases for levels under ~21. For instance, the threshold for a level 16 character has been observed to be above 126 redux points. Level also has an impact on how much redux a character derives from a particular amount of redux points: a higher level character will experience a higher redux factor value than a lower level character. The amount of redux factor gained per redux point tapers off fairly rapidly around 400 redux points for a level 40 character. It should be noted that the concept of whether further training is ?worth it? for the purpose of higher redux is irreducibly subjective and cannot be answered in a universal fashion. The author?s intent is only to provide numbers from which an individual can draw a more informed conclusion. The most complete testing to date is available on Krakiipedia at the following location:

http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Redux

The spell penalty is even less well understood, but preliminary findings indicate the following:

Foremost, that the penalty is multiplicative rather than subtractive. At each step of penalty, a modifier of 12/13 is applied to the base RF, where a step of penalty is defined by the character?s level divided by 20 and a seed of 2 as follows:

For a character at cap, up to 100/20 = 5 spells can be learned without penalty, and up to 5 + 5 + 2 = 12 spells can be learned without leaving the first level of penalty. For a level 100 warrior with a maximum of 100 spells, the penalty would be:
(0) 100 ? 5 = 95
(1) 95 ? 7 = 88
(2) 88 ? 9 = 79
(3) 79 ? 11 = 68
(4) 68 ? 13 = 55
(5) 55 ? 15 = 40
(6) 40 ? 17 = 23
(7) 23 ? 19 = 4
(8) 4 ? 21 < 0

(12/13)^8 = 52.7% modifier of the unpenalized RF.

.

.

.

It should be made clear that all statements made herein are made to the best of my empirical knowledge. I have no direct access to the code of the game itself, and as such it could work in an entirely different fashion from what I have proclaimed. The reason I endorse my findings is that they are to a large degree functionally equivalent with the workings of the game if not necessarily mechanically equivalent.

.

As a final note, I am pleased to be a part of this community. I hope that this information proves useful in the future.

-Anathemus? player

[Stunseed]

< I saw that this post was about to get washed away on the officials and rescued it. It's Anathemus' last post before he left which detailed all of his findings on redux in one location. It's not from a GM but he did extensive testing and it's got a lot of good info on redux. >

He posts as Latrinsorm here. You're not missing him. :)

[DoctorUnne]

He posts as Latrinsorm here. You're not missing him. :)

Oh word? Hahaha sorry I'm still fairly new. What up Latrinsorm? I'll rep you for being Anathemus.

[Rimalon]

From Oscuro:

>>I would have gotten more but people kept sancting and sanct-breaking crystals are freakin' worthless.

Yeah...about that...apparently I missed "carrying the one," so to speak. The formula has been fixed. It should favor the breaker a little more now. This is retroactive, so any existing shards will work fine.

>>The formula is only based on level and MIU, right Oscuro? Can I ask how much each one goes into a successful sanct break? I'm wondering now that you fixed the un-carried ones if I'm overtrained in MIU.

Level isn't a factor. There's a flat bonus for the breaker and every 2 ranks of MIU is equivalent to one rank of the applicable spell rank (MjS or Bard) or lore rank (Spirit Summoning or Telepathy) and each side gets a d100 roll.

----------

I told them those shards were fucking broken from Day 1.

AT LEAST THEY'RE FIXED NOW.

NO ONE EVER LISTENS TO ME RARRRRRRRRRRRRG!

[thefarmer]

Since nobody posted it, I'm reposting.

From Oscuro:

>>I would have gotten more but people kept sancting and sanct-breaking crystals are freakin' worthless.

Yeah...about that...apparently I missed "carrying the one," so to speak. The formula has been fixed. It should favor the breaker a little more now. This is retroactive, so any existing shards will work fine.

>>The formula is only based on level and MIU, right Oscuro? Can I ask how much each one goes into a successful sanct break? I'm wondering now that you fixed the un-carried ones if I'm overtrained in MIU.

Level isn't a factor. There's a flat bonus for the breaker and every 2 ranks of MIU is equivalent to one rank of the applicable spell rank (MjS or Bard) or lore rank (Spirit Summoning or Telepathy) and each side gets a d100 roll.

[BriarFox]

>>430 and 140 offer maneuver protection? What?

Yes. And so does 102 and 507. I just checked. These four spells only come into play if the maneuver is able to be defended against by a shield, though, not just ones that you can evade. For example, soul golems pushing you into steam vents can be deflected by a shield, so 102 et al will help there.

Spells that help you evade creature maneuvers are Mobility, Prayer, Empathic Focus, Heroism, Dauntless, Premonition.

Note that these are not specs for the CML, but the standard creature maneuver system. Also, this is all subject to change once the review gets underway.

>>But 430? Since when?

1997.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team

Useful.

[thefarmer]

Re: Spirit Thresholds · on 4/23/2009 2:47:12 PM 5813


Reply
>>Was I mistaken in thinking that +50 stamina recovery and +50 max stamina can stack?

Not that I'm aware of. If you boost your CON stat, it raises your HP and your stamina. Those boosts won't stack beyond the max for health boosters and stamina boosters. I think that's what you're confusing this with?

= - GM Oscuro - =

Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team

[Latrinsorm]

"the standard creature maneuver system"

Uh, I thought the whole idea behind monster CML conversion was that there was no such system?

<<What up Latrinsorm? I'll rep you for being Anathemus.>>

O. :thanx:

[Rolton-Sammich]

"the standard creature maneuver system"

Uh, I thought the whole idea behind monster CML conversion was that there was no such system?
I assumed this was referring to, e.g., roa'ters or krynches... creature maneuvers that do not correspond to the CML.

[Rolton-Sammich]

I've decided to treat everything Naos says in #ccf as official.

01:25 *** Naos joined #ccf
01:25 <Naos> HOLY SHIT SOMETHING HAPPENED

[thefarmer]

Re: Adamantine (And Other Metals) CROSSPOST · on 4/28/2009 5:00:47 PM 1949


Reply
>I have otherwise heard from multiple sources that adamantine is not supposed to be lightened, ever.

Adamantine can be lightened, though the minimum that it can be lightened to is still quite heavy when compared to a similar non-adamantine item. I do need to update ANALYSE to reflect this, though.

>I assume adamantine is pitch black, because an item said so.

Adamantine in its natural state is a blackish-brown. It can be dyed any color, however.

>I assume zelnorn is golden in color, because an item said so.

Yes, its natural state is a golden hue. It can also be dyed any color.

>I assume kroderine is silvery in color, because althought the only kroderine item in game has no color descriptor, it has properties similar to krodera (which is silvery in color).

Kroderine appears fairly similar to steel in its natural state. It has a tendency to blacken over time as a side effect its special property (consuming magic), though this can be concealed with dye.

>Upon release, it was said that kroderine could never, ever be enchanted (just like it sounds as though adamantine is never, ever supposed to be lightened). But it was cleared for the major enchanting slot at the CCF.

Kroderine will eventually consume any additional enchantment and return to its natural state. If it was enchanted at the CCF, I suspect that who ever got it done will probably want to change their choice.

>What's up with zelnorn, yo'? Does it have a natural state of +x/+x? The enchants of the various items released have all been different.

Its base state is +10/+10. This natural bonus can be enhanced, but the AS/DS bonuses should always be within one point of one another.

>What can these metals be used for? Zelnorn and adamantine have been made into weapons and armors. Kroderine has been made into a weapon. Can any of them be made into a shield? Can kroderine be made into armor?

Zelnorn and Adamantine can be crafted into weapons, armor, and shields. Kroderine is currently weapon only (though this is likely to change when a suitable release method presents itself).

>Out of all of the metals, why are these three the only metals to have a level restriction to hold that is not based on natural enchant? I'll admit that the innate abilities are very powerful, but... it doesn't make sense to cower in fear of adamantine's power when that power is just... hardness.

The innate abilities are indeed significantly more powerful than standard materials, which is why a higher than normal level restriction applies.

That adamantine tends to overpower the less experienced is derived from the fact that is it not just very strong, it is essentially supernaturally indestructable. In order to shape that kind of toughness into a useable form (like a weapon or a suit of armor), some pretty powerful magic has to be used continually over the long and slow process of crafting. That kind of mana expenditure leaves behind a very strong magical residue on the resulting item, which takes a fair bit of training to overcome.

>Where... do these metals come from? If they're alloys, how are they made!?

They are all "natural" metals (in the sense that they are not alloys or otherwise man-made).

>Which GM(s) made these items from concept to code?

Me.

Coase

[thefarmer]

Re: Old Coraesine Weapons still Un-Workable · on 4/26/2009 9:26:40 PM 43799


Reply
Two types of coraesine:

Old: The stuff Jay had, cause he's old. I'm pretty sure people can mess around with that. I ripped off the double-strike properties of it when I made the new stuff and incorporated it into the metal doc.

New: My stuff. Takes more of the crud we put in the metal doc and fleshes it out, two versions: impure and pure. Pure allows you to cast call wind, change your features, and do lots of weird stupid stuff I'm not really remembering right now. Impure, I think, just has some fluffy messaging and double strike flares.

As it stands, I really don't remember saying anything about coming back to work on them or expand on them. They're extremely limited release and me messing with them isn't just my decision, it'd probably require some specific approvals from people over my head if it's messing with their stats at all. Alterations are probably the only exception to that.

What do you want? I can ask, at least.

And is there anyone out there except you that has one that wants stuff? :D

~ V

[thefarmer]

Re: Slap me Around and Call me Susie · on 5/5/2009 11:14:37 AM 14918


Reply
>>That is true, but it doesn't really apply to mind jolt. For some reason it's incredibly hard to pull off a stun maneuver from any length of mind jolt stun. Which, like Keleborrn said, would have probably given him RT past his stun which would have been his chance to get out of there.

>>Mind jolt sucks.

Mind Jolt can have long durations on high endrolls, but it's otherwise no harder to use StunManeuvers with than any other stun of equal duration.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team

followup:


Re: Slap me Around and Call me Susie · on 5/5/2009 8:11:37 PM 14931


Reply
>>If I remember correctly, each number above a +100 roll on mind jolt equates to 1 second of being stunned. Am I right on this? What's the max length on the stuns? And how long is one stun round supposed to be?

Yes, 1 second per point of warding margin. I don't believe there is a max duration. One stun round is five seconds.

>>I agree with Grendeg that I'm not totally convinced there isn't a bug here. I don't know if it's because it's incredibly easy for anything casting mind jolt at a rogue to get a high endroll, but it's also my experience that magical stun = failmaneuvers.

Just checked it again and it's correct. What you may be seeing is that stuns from Mind Jolt are typically going to be 20+ seconds against most Rogues and the maximum difficulty is attained at 20 seconds (anything more isn't any harder). If you're a master in Stun Man and you have a decent DIS modifier, though, doing things like STUN STAND or STUN STANCE1 should be very easy even for long duration stuns. STUN MOVE, however, is very difficult with long stuns.

>>Again I would like to suggest is there anything that can be done to tone down mind jolt? Maybe .5 seconds per integer above the +100 endroll? The spell is just absolutely devastating.

That would be something to bring up in the Sorcerer folder. Personally, I think Mind Jolt is in line with its level in terms of power. Stun is one of the weakest status effects one can be under and the spell does nothing but stun. Its main strength is its duration.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team


Re: Slap me Around and Call me Susie · on 5/5/2009 8:27:33 PM 14940


Reply
>>Does this mean that say, on an 8 round stun, the first 20 seconds will be at max difficulty and then the difficulty will start to decrease after 20 seconds, or does it mean that the difficulty of a stun man will start decreasing immediately?

It goes by duration of the stun at the time of the attempt, so it gets easier the longer you wait.

>>Also - does/would it possible to have stun move work on climbing moves?

This is something I planned on looking into eventually (i.e. after the offensive maneuver CMP costs and CMAN immunity/resistance stuff). I have a few ideas for Stun Maneuvers already, but if you guys have any, please post them (in the guild folder).

= - GM Oscuro - =

Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team

[grenthor]

Beyond the points being made by the warriors in the previous posts, one critical point that is being overlooked is that at equal S&H skill, a Warrior is nowhere near as effective at hiding as a Rogue due to a massive profession bonus Rogues receive. Even if the Rogue does not avail himself of Shadow Mastery or Armored Stealth, a 2x S&H Warrior at 100th level trying to hide in front of a creature is significantly worse off than the 1x Rogue.

Warden

http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=102&category=30&topic=23&message=4793

[thefarmer]

Posted by Zyllah:


Approved Weapon Name List - Part 1 · on 5/7/2009 12:42:56 AM 1887

This list is current as of the date of this post. Changes after this point may invalidate some of the information. General use means they can appear in shops and alteration only is what it sounds like.

If a weapon is not listed here it means there's no approved alternate nouns.

Awl-pike PA
Approved Names Usage
chest-ripper General Use
korseke General Use
military fork General Use
ranseur General Use
runka General Use
scaling fork General Use
spetum General Use

Backsword OHE
Approved Names Usage
mortuary sword General Use
sidesword General Use
riding sword General Use

Ball & Chain OHC
Approved Names Usage
mace and chain General Use
binnol Alterations Only
goupillon Alterations Only

Bastard Sword
Approved Names Usage
cresset sword General Use
espadon General Use
warsword General Use

Battle Axe 2H
Approved Names Usage
adze General Use
balestarius Alterations Only
battle-axe General Use
bearded axe General Use
doloire Alterations Only
executioner's axe General Use
greataxe General Use
kheten Alterations Only
roa'ter axe General Use
tabar Alterations Only
woodsman's axe General Use

Blackjack Brawl
Approved Names Usage
bludgeon General Use
sap General Use

Broadsword OHE
Approved Names Usage
broadsword General Use
carp's-tongue/carp's tongue Alterations Only
flyssa Alterations Only
goliah Alterations Only
katzbalger Alterations Only
machera Alterations Only
palache Alterations Only
schiavona Alterations Only
seax General Use
spadroon Alterations Only
spatha General Use
talon sword General Use
xiphos Alterations Only

Dagger OHE
Approved Names Usage
alfange Alterations Only
basilard Alterations Only
bodkin General Use
bracelet dagger General Use
butcher knife General Use
cinquedea General Use
crescent dagger General Use
dirk General Use
fantail dagger General Use
forked dagger General Use
kidney dagger General Use
knife General Use
kozuka General Use
misericord General Use
parazonium Alterations Only
pavade Alterations Only
poignard General Use
pugio Alterations Only
scramasax General Use
sgian achlais Alterations Only
spike General Use
stiletto General Use
tanto General Use

Estoc OHE
Approved Names Usage
koncerz General Use

Falchion OHE
Approved Names Usage
badelaire General Use
craquemarte Alterations Only
falcata General Use
khopesh General Use
machete General Use
takouba Alterations Only
warblade General Use

Flail 2H
Approved Names Usage
military flail General Use

Halberd PA
Approved Names Usage
bardiche General Use
bill General Use
brandestoc General Use
croc Alterations Only
falcastra General Use
fauchard General Use
glaive General Use
godendag Alterations Only
guisarme General Use
hippe Alterations Only
pole axe/pole-axe General Use
scorpion General Use
scythe General Use

Handaxe OHE
Approved Names Usage
balta Alterations Only
broad axe General Use
cleaver General Use
crescent axe General Use
field-axe General Use
francisca Alterations Only
hatchet General Use
ice axe General Use
limb-cleaver General Use
meat cleaver General Use
miner's axe General Use
moon axe General Use
raiding axe General Use
sparte Alterations Only
taper Alterations Only
toporok Alterations Only
waraxe General Use

Heavy Crossbow MIS
Approved Names Usage
heavy arbalest General Use
siege crossbow General Use

Hook-knife Brawl
Approved Names Usage
pit-knife General Use
sabiet Alterations Only

Jackblade Brawl
Approved Names Usage
slash-jack General Use

Javelin Pole
Approved Names Usage
contus Alterations Only
jaculum General Use
pelta Alterations Only
shail Alterations Only
spiculum General Use

Jeddart-axe Pole
Approved Names Usage
beaked axe General Use
nagimaki General Use
voulge General Use

Katar Combo OHE and Brawl
Approved Names Usage
gauntlet-sword General Use
manople General Use
paiscush Alterations Only
pata Alterations Only

Knuckle-blade Brawl
Approved Names Usage
slash-fist General Use

Lance Pole
Approved Names Usage
framea Alterations Only
pike General Use
sarissa Alterations Only
sudis Alterations Only
warlance General Use

Leather Whip OHC
Approved Names Usage
bullwhip General Use
cat o' nine tails General Use

Light Crossbow MIS
Approved Names Usage
light arbalest General Use

Long Bow MIS
Approved Names Usage
yumi General Use

Longsword OHE
Approved Names Usage
arming sword General Use
kaskara General Use
langsax/langseax General Use
sheering sword General Use

Mace OHC
Approved Names Usage
bulawa General Use
dhara Alterations Only
flanged mace General Use
knee-breaker General Use
massuelle Alterations Only
mattina Alterations Only
ox mace Alterations Only
pernat Alterations Only
quadrelle Alterations Only
ridgemace General Use
studded mace General Use

Main Gauche OHE
Approved Names Usage
parrying dagger General Use

Maul 2H
Approved Names Usage
footman's hammer General Use
sledgehammer General Use
tetsubo General Use

Military Pick 2H
Approved Names Usage
bisacuta Alterations Only

Morning Star OHC
Approved Names Usage
spiked mace General Use
holy water sprinkler General Use
spikestar General Use



Approved Weapon Name List - Part 2 · on 5/7/2009 12:45:01 AM 1888


Reply
Paingrip Brawl
Approved Names Usage
grab-stabber General Use

Quarterstaff 2H
Approved Names Usage
staff General Use
bo stick General Use
yoribo General Use

Quoit Thrown
Approved Names Usage
chakram General Use

Rapier OHE
Approved Names Usage
bilbo General Use
colichemarde Alterations Only
epee General Use
fleuret Alterations Only
foil General Use
schlager Alterations Only
tizona Alterations Only
tock General Use
tocke General Use
tuck General Use
verdun Alterations Only

Razorpaw Brawl
Approved Names Usage
slap-slasher General Use

Runestaff 2H
Approved Names Usage
crook General Use
crosier General Use
pastoral staffGeneral Use
rune staff General Use
scepter General Use
staff General Use

Sai Brawl
Approved Names Usage
jitte General Use

Scimitar OHE
Approved Names Usage
cutlass General Use
kama General Use
kilij Alterations Only
palache Alterations Only
sabre General Use
sapara General Use
shamshir General Use
yataghan General Use

Short Sword OHE
Approved Names Usage
antler sword Alterations Only
braquemar Alterations Only
baselard Alterations Only
chereb General Use
coustille Alterations Only
gladius General Use
kris General Use
sica Alterations Only
wakizashi General Use

Spear Pole
Approved Names Usage
angon Alterations Only
boar spear General Use
cateia Alterations Only
falarica Alterations Only
gaesum Alterations Only
harpoon General Use
partisan/partizan General Use
pill General Use
spontoon General Use

Trident Pole
Approved Names Usage
fuscina Alterations Only
magari-yari General Use
pitch fork/pitchfork General Use
zinnor Alterations Only

Twohanded Sword 2H
Approved Names Usage
battlesword General Use
beheading sword General Use
bidenhander General Use
falx General Use
executioner's sword General Use
greatsword General Use
no-dachi General Use
zweihander General Use

War Hammer OHC
Approved Names Usage
fang General Use
hammerbeak General Use
hoolurge Alterations Only
horseman's hammer General Use
skull-crusher General Use
taavish Alterations Only

War Mattock 2H
Approved Names Usage
mattock General Use
oncin Alterations Only
sabar Alterations Only

Yierka-spur Brawl
Approved Names Usage
spike-fist General Use

[Fallen]

Now we just have to keep begging them and begging them to open the list up to player suggestions.

[Fallen]

<<It's a defensive measure if you stay in hiding in front of a critter as compared to standing in the open in front of a critter, certainly. But what purpose is there to doing that, besides archery?>>

Over in the warrior folder, you wrote:

"As a rogue who ambushes, I'm typically only concerned with whether I can stay in hiding for one critter action (normally), or two (if my hiding RT isn't up by the time it does the first action). That number for me is close enough to 100% of the time for non-undead that the difference is trivial."

http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=102&category=30&topic=23&message=4796 (http://www.play.net/forums/redirect.asp?URL=http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=102&category=30&topic=23&message=4796)

It's clear that you know full well why a Rogue would want to stay in hiding for a creature action or two rather than stand in the open: because you avoid 100% of the attacks that are instead spent by the creature making futile attempts at searching.

When hiding works close to 100% of the time, as you say it does for you against non-undead, I consider that to be an excellent defense. A creature that fails a search doesn't attack, prep a spell, or perform a maneuver.

Warden

[Fallen]

Now THIS is hilarious. Can you imagine the bitching Izzy would have to do about all the bitching if they decided to "fix" this bug?
-----
>>Hah! Having it in my disk did it, then. That's good to know. I wonder why it goes off when it's in or on something. Hrm.

Because, apparently, the original intention of Call Lightning was to have traps go off if the box had not yet been disarmed, only there was a typo in the code and it misdirected the reference unless the box was in or on something. After assessing the situation, we've decided to allow the precedent of Call Lightning working on non-glyphed, enruned or mithril boxes to be maintained and instead to simply remove the ability for traps to go off while the box is in or on another object.

>>It was kind of a cool effect. Can you say what type of trap it was?

Exploding chest.

>>Thanks for looking into it, Oscuro and Estild. Much obliged.

You're welcome.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team

[Latrinsorm]

I think they should have changed it to reflect the initial intention. NO MORE ACTIVIST GMS. Seriously though, how does flinging bolts of lightning at something make it not explode? It's never made sense.

[thefarmer]

For the few alchemists left..


Re: What is the Potion rules again? · on 5/7/2009 10:12:52 PM 2851


Reply
If you get a recipe from the library, it's safe to assume you can make it. This means that not only is it enabled for your profession, but also that your guild ranks are high enough to allow you to make the item. You cannot learn recipes that are above your rank.

I've forgotten whether I posted this or not: There is a fairly stronger chance for you to learn a recipe that you can use for training reps vs. something that you can't.

-Strath

[thefarmer]

>>Was it ever discovered whether solid moonstone cubes add to non-cman maneuevers such as roa'ter tricks?

They only benefit maneuvers from the CML.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team

[thefarmer]

Any idea what these spells do? Was nice to see them implemented but there is no word on the gs web page about the spells yet.

Re: 235 and 250 · on 5/10/2009 12:39:12 AM 2442


Reply
We do not have any immediate plans for these spell slots. However, if you have any ideas, feel free to make suggestions.

GameMaster Estild
Cleric/Empath Team

[thefarmer]

Re: Sunburst as a direct damage CS spell - Sunflare · on 5/10/2009 3:19:41 AM 1363


Reply
>The point of a semi, to my mind, is that one can choose whether to be more of a pure, more of a square, or something in-between. Bards, for instance, can more or less be pures. Yet, rangers can't, and what's holding us back is largely the lack of the possibility of a low-level direct-damage CS spell, much like Stunning Shout (1008). If we had such a spell, it'd finally be possible for a ranger to go a true "druid" path, while it isn't now. ~Nuadjha

I don't believe that semis must have a viable magical path to be complete. Bards can take a pure caster path, but they are considered to be the most magical of the semis. A pure casting Paladin is unfathomable, as the most physical of the semis. I think Rangers fit pretty well in between the two.

I'm not necessarily against the idea of a lower level attack spell, but I don't think it's really warranted in the circle. There is already quite a bit of versatility inherent to Rangers outside of caster status that brings a lot to the profession.

-M.

[droit]

So...bards can have the option of being physical or magical, but paladins and rangers can't?

[Allereli]

So...bards can have the option of being physical or magical, but paladins and rangers can't?

I guess that's why they're different professions

[droit]

No, what I was QQing about was that paladins and rangers are more or less forced into a particular training path, but bards can excel as physical or magical (or a mix of the two) combatants equally. He's basically saying that bards are the most versatile semi class, which, at least officially, is the oft-celebrated "strength" of rangers.

I don't care that bards have those options. I'm just annoyed that he used that as justification for denying us a second attack spell.

[TheLastShamurai]

>>I'm changing my profile quote in the hopes the constant reminder will get us a few more updates however.

It'd probably end up ignored more than seen.

~
GM Emeradan
GS4-EMERADAN@PLAY.NET
Forums Manager
Bugs Manager
~
GemStone IV: One MMORPG to Rule Them All.
"Master of the Black Helicopters." -- BROWNA94

Haha, like we didn't already know we were ignored.

[TheWitch]

Sneezing powders have been updated · on 5/24/2009 2:47:12 AM 9286


Minor sneezing powder now requires a single dose of fire essence. Major sneezing powder requires two doses. The powder vials still work the same and have a single "charge" while I mull over what to do with that.

Ask the NPCs to update your tomes!

-Strath


It's a step in the right direction.

[Ryvicke]

In response to a guy that had a full 10 spirit got spirit deathed from sign of healing:


Our logs show you had 2 spirit when you used your sign.

~
GM Emeradan
GS4-EMERADAN@PLAY.NET
Forums Manager
Bugs Manager
~
GemStone IV: One MMORPG to Rule Them All.
"Master of the Black Helicopters." -- BROWNA94

Aren't they always saying this is exactly something that they can't do? Like that the system itself doesn't save every action that takes place in game so they can't go back and check exactly what happened to a specific person at a specific time? I swear I've seen Em post like 3 things in the last week where he just says "oh yeah I checked and this is what was going on."

Did something change?

[Martaigne]

I think circumstances of death are logged?

[Bhuryn]

I would guess it saves your just-before-death status.

[thefarmer]

Re: MIU and Lores · on 6/20/2009 1:18:36 AM 3139


Reply

THROGG
I am not sure that haste imbeds use lores at all. My impression is that they don't. I'm not entirely certain, maybe if I both create the imbed myself and use it, I'd get the air lore bonus, but I don't think so. Same for strength imbeds; earth lore increases the effect only if self cast.


That was the case before the lore standard went into effect. All spells follow the lore standard unless specifically noted otherwise (and the only exception I know of to date is with Raise (302) and Spirit Mana Control).

GameMaster Estild
Cleric/Empath Team

[thefarmer]

Re: Simucon news · on 6/20/2009 1:28:45 AM 437


Reply
We actually have quite a bit of exciting news to release for Clerics and Empaths (and other Pures) this year at SimuCon. So stop by and say hi; both Oscuro and I will be present. :)

GameMaster Estild
Cleric/Empath Team

Hm.

[droit]

Why do all other profession gurus suck ass compared to these guys?

[Bhuryn]

more importantly. What more do empaths need? Mine isn't very high level but already pretty ridiculous. I don't even ahve sigil of power yet to abuse my PT =P.

[Fallen]

Clerics should be getting Orisons, which are guild skills. Empaths should be getting a groovy utility spell which augments gear. I've been out of the loop, but those were the big deal thingies when last I was reading the boards.

Everyone else? Maybe an E-lore preview?

[thefarmer]

Empaths should be getting a groovy utility spell which augments gear.

Really? What's it do? Other than make empaths that much more stupid powerful of a class?

[Fallen]

When Oscuro last said he liked the idea, I think it made the armor semi-sentient. I could be COMPLETELY off, and it could be something different, but I think this fits the profession well. It should provide you reactive healing or something like that. I think Tsalim's character posts the idea.

[thefarmer]

While that sounds awesome.. do empaths need MORE combat abilities?

[thefarmer]

Re: A few new signs for the Order of Voln · on 6/20/2009 6:11:31 AM 3054


Reply
>>>Obviously it [Symbol of Dreams] should not and never will go back to the way it was. There should be no tools in the game that provide a mechanical advantage while actively discouraging interaction.

>>s>meditate [My response that there ARE tools that do exactly that]


We're not exactly fans of meditate offering an advantage for inactivity as well. We have a solution which will be discussed at Simucon.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team

[Baelog]

When Oscuro last said he liked the idea, I think it made the armor semi-sentient. I could be COMPLETELY off, and it could be something different, but I think this fits the profession well. It should provide you reactive healing or something like that. I think Tsalim's character posts the idea.

Does it also yell out
"Let 'em eat fireballs!"
"Kill those scumsucking orc bastards!"
and "Only good troll is a dead troll!"
as well as other Elanthia military related stuff?


http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/7/75/Fallout_3_Army_Power_Armour.png
Prototype Medic Power Armor

[Latrinsorm]

Isn't a big possibility moving Empaths to Minor Mental, making Clerics excited because even though technically nothing's changed for them they have the only access to Major Spiritual, like wizardly Wizards?

Monks, babyy! Sooner than ever!

[Asrial]

I thought it was said a while back that Empaths would NOT be changing spell circles?

[Bhuryn]

Yeah, they said empaths would stay has Min/Maj spiritual.

[Donquix]

Yeah, they said empaths would stay has Min/Maj spiritual.

which i still think is a BS cop out. Actually made sense before where they were going with it, as you would have had the perfect mix of spell circles. Pure elementalist, pure spirtual, pure mental (someday...lol), mental/spirit hybrid pure, spirtual/elemental hybrid pure. then just needed a mental/elemental some day (druid?)

[thefarmer]

307 and 310 · on 6/23/2009 11:11:12 PM 8510


Reply
I had cast these spells and joined a group to pick up some group spells. During this time a sorceror cast 307 and 310 off scrolls and when I went out to hunt mine both dropped. It seems that the later and weaker version was overriding my earlier and more powerful cast.

Is this intended or a bug?

and reply..


>>Is this intended or a bug?

A bug. I'm planning on rewriting the code (just cleaning it up, not really the mechanics) for these spells eventually. This would be addressed then.

= - GM Oscuro - =

[thefarmer]

Re: LM + Grimswarm · on 6/28/2009 3:14:53 AM 5784


Reply
>Is there any hope of grimswarm boxes ever being able to generate LM reps?

Sure, new treasure boxes pulled out of the Grimswarm loot chests should now work for LM reps (any old boxes will continue to not work, though).

Coase

Good change.

[Latrinsorm]

Classic Coase. Is he in charge of GS yet?

[Rimalon]

The new 319, Crusade, will affect all bolt/ball spells, which includes 306, 111 and the bolt version of 118 with both the damage and crit weighting buffs just like the Sunfist bane sigils do. No, it won't turn bolt spells into ball spells.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team

-----------

We had confirmed damage weighting on bolt spells, and had ASSUMED crit weighting, but had never had it officially confirmed.

Until now!

[droit]

Huzzah!

[Morrff]

Very nice change...I think. However I bet 335 will be causing problems.

[Geshron]

The new 319, Crusade, will affect all bolt/ball spells, which includes 306, 111 and the bolt version of 118 with both the damage and crit weighting buffs just like the Sunfist bane sigils do. No, it won't turn bolt spells into ball spells.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team

-----------

We had confirmed damage weighting on bolt spells, and had ASSUMED crit weighting, but had never had it officially confirmed.

Until now!

Good, less reason to feel like a douche for training in spell aim and having it enhanced via my armor.

[LadyLaphrael]

Regarding why gem bounties have been fuck-all harder since the treasure update in that your gem doesn't drop nearly as often as before.


As for Adv. Guild gem issue, it is a feature of the realms that have realm-specific gems. We're looking into the feasibility of changes to address the complaint.

Warden

Which, to me, sounds like a paraphrase of "It's a gamewide bug that we don't really intend to fix anytime soon."

[CrystalTears]

I love how they call it a feature. Spoken like a true developer.

[Latrinsorm]

I liked how he said he's looking into the feasibility of possibly considering non-binding discussions of changes at some point in the future. I may be the only one left, but I am a diehard partisan of Warden.

[DoctorUnne]

I was trying to remember the formula for how redux affects crit divisors and finally found this post from Mark in the officials, and I don't want to lose it.

The correct term is total damage reduction, since both raw damage and crit damage are reduced.

There is still a remnant of DFredux in the new system but this has to do with weapon damage factor reduction for crit divisor calculations.

A character with 50% redux does not get a 50% reduction in the crit divisor. (see note below for a further explanation)

As a level 31 rogue, you should already have redux, unless this character is following a non-conventional training path. There is nothing that you have to do to increase redux other than gaining ranks in the specific physical skills required for redux.

Basically, redux acts behind the scenes to reduce the amount of damage that your character takes in AS/DS resolutions. You can consider it a combination of both hidden damage and crit padding. You don't need to be wearing any special items to qualify for redux.

There are three ways to determine if your character has redux:

1. At least level 21 with 109 redux points and no spells.

2. When you check out of an inn and you do NOT receive the following message.
>Current skills bonus is insufficient to gain DF reduction.

3. When your character takes damage and that damage is less than the calculated damage for a non-redux character. (This must be computed using weapon damage factor and crit tables.)

Redux points are gained from the following skills:

1. Primary: Physical Fitness - 1 pt per rank
2. Secondary: CM, MOC, TWC, ambush, armor, shield, dodge - .4 pts per rank
3. Tertiary: weapon skill - .3 pts per rank

There is no player derived chart/table that can tell you how much redux your character has at a particular level with a given number of redux points. This can be roughly approximated at best.

The old redux calculators are now obsolete since the formula has changed. The calculator removes crit damage from the hp damage portion which is now incorrect. Crit damage needs to be added back in and then you need to recalculate manually. You will have an inflated value from Xygon's calculator.

Spell knowledge will reduce redux. Once a character has 2 spells per level then redux is reduced to zero. It is believed that 1 spell per 20 levels will have no effect on redux. This is probably true. My best estimate for characters with 1 spell per level (mostly semi's) is a penalty of approximately 37% to their redux factor.

E.g. A level 100 character with 600 redux points will have about 58% redux, if that character has no spells. With 100 spell ranks the redux percent would be reduced by 37% yielding a redux factor of .58 * .67 = .389 RF.

There is also a level penalty to redux. A level 100 character with 400 redux points will have a higher redux factor than a level 70 character with 400 points. The exact values for this penalty are not known but it is not very large.

Note: Crit divisors (Order of Mark)

Each character with a given number of redux points and at a specific level will have a non-variable redux factor (DFredux), conventionally called RF1. This value will increase the amount of damage required for each crit rank because it reduces the weapon damage factor for crit rank determination, but it is less than what would be expected. This is a carry-over from the old model and most players do not understand how this works, or that it even exists.

In order to find this non-variable redux factor you need to determine the lowest endroll that will cause a rank 1 crit. You can reverse engineer an approximate value by using the more common redux factor and multiplying it by .667.

How does this affect the crit divisor?

A character with 50% redux (RF .500) will have total damage reduction of approximately 50% for any given hit. But, the crit divisor is not reduced by 50%. It is only reduced by 33%. (.50 * .667) = .333 RF1

How does this translate to the crit divisor?

A character in full plate without redux would need 10.5 pts of damage before sustaining a rank 1 crit. It would seem logical that a character with 50% redux would require 21 pts of damage before taking a rank 1 crit (21 * .5 = 10.5). However, this proves not to be the case. In fact it only takes 15.75 pts of damage.

The formula for this reduced crit divisor (RF1) can be approximated if a player already has a known redux value. The players redux value is RF. The formula for RF1 is, therefore: (2RF/3).

For a character with RF .500 (50% redux) their RF1 is ~.333 and this value can then be used to determine the minimum amount of damage required for any crit rank with any armor using the following formula: Crit rank damage/ (1 - RF1)

Let's say this character wanted to know the amount of damage required to cause a rank 5 crit in hauberk. The minimum amount of damage for a rank 5 in hauberk is 44.5 for a non-redux character. For this character it would be (44.5/.333) = 66.72. So, 66.72 is the minimum amount of damage required for a rank 5 crit for a character with 50% redux wearing hauberk.

[TheLastShamurai]

Hey guys, after seeing some players get confused with titles not showing up, I've made it so that TITLE SHOW will indicate to you what title information you have hidden. Hopefully that should make it obvious why particular pieces aren't showing up.-Ildran


Your current TITLE display is:

Mikoguchi Chydenar.
He appears to be a Human.

(You are currently hiding your culture.)

[Rimalon]

For Enchanting, Wizard spell ranks are always worth as much or more than Major Elemental spell ranks.

Of all the factors in success, Wizard spell ranks are weighted the highest in terms of how much they contribute to your overall enchanting skill. Even when diminishing returns for overtraining is considered, one rank of Wizard spell research is never worth less than one unit of anything else.

Enchanting should be considered one of the Wizardly bits that is meant to encouraging training more heavily in the Wizard base spell circle.

--
Naos

[Fallen]

>If it's not clear what the problem is from the log, it's not letting me ASSUME the first aspect if I have zero mana, even though the first aspect costs zero mana. -Murp


This should be fixed now.

-M.

[Fallen]

BGHIS
Pure-Hybrid professions were supposed to use two minor lists; then a decision was made that Emapths could keep a major spell list. Sorcerers have a Minor circle CS penalty because they are hybrids; Empaths don't because, depending the GM you talk to, they may not be hybrids.


The original announcement of Empaths still being hybrids came from Warden, the Senior GameMaster responsible for all professions. I don't know of incident of another GameMaster contradicting this design, but I can tell you that unless you hear otherwise from Warden, it remains true.

GameMaster Estild
Cleric/Empath Team

[Fallen]

>>I submitted a bug report, but wanted to also post the log. Cave worms are moving around while stunned.

This has been fixed. Thanks for reporting it.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team

[Fallen]

Discussion on the Paladin boards concerning Clerics getting Crusade:
----


>>Except crusade looks like it will be vastly superior. Wanna put money on them not stacking?


They're very different spells. Crusade lasts 60 seconds, which is intentionally not easily maintainable. Arm of the Arkati is easily maintainable. And, yes, they will stack.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team
----


>>Care to explain why 19 mana per minute is considered "hard to manage" when you're group hunting? I'd have no problem managing that on my paladin who regens less mana then a like level cleric.


If it's more manageable in a group, then that's fine, as frankly, most things are. However, the main complain from Clerics about it is that cannot easily maintain in while solo hunting, which is intentional.



>>Right now, unfortunately, it looks like cleric swingers still have more tools (and are getting more) then paladins.

>>It's to bad none of you see what a slap in the face crusade is to paladins.


Paladins don't have a monopoly on group spells, even offensive ones. IMO, Paladins, Clerics and Bards are the three classes that are meant to excel at group buffs.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team

[Jessaril]

I'm so fucking tired of Oscuro and Estild. It's pretty obvious neither of them care about anything other then clerics and empaths having exactly what they want. This linking thing aside. I doubt it makes it live if enough empaths whine.

[Kitsun]

I guess you aren't paying much attention to the official boards but there's a portion of clerics pitching a fit about the change to Divine Wrath and questioning the value of Crusade. The empathic linking is a worthless fucking change; a way to stop vulturing exists in the form of the demeanor verb. That people are too stupid to use it shouldn't be band aided by slapping everyone with a link verb.

As Crusade stands, it is more valuable to the people in the cleric's group than it is to a cleric himself. If I wanted to blow something out of the water, I'd go for Spirit Slayer and not a bolt enchancer.

[Fallen]

Professions currently bitching: Empaths, Paladins, Sorcerers.

[Durgrimst]

If I wanted to blow something out of the water, I'd go for Spirit Slayer and not a bolt enchancer.

Clerics are not meant to bolt IMO.

[thefarmer]

Professions currently bitching: Empaths, Paladins, Sorcerers and Clerics.

Fixed.

Oddly enough, Cleric and Empath bitching is due to too much dev. Paladins and Sorcerers for the lack of.

[Rimalon]

Oscuro and Estild wilted on the 335 change, essentially pussying out and making it player-friendly.

Yeah, they said there's going to be a CHANNEL version that hits more targets, and is non-player-friendly, but yawn.

At least it probably means that Cone won't get nerfed soon.

[Bhuryn]

Fixed.

Oddly enough, Cleric and Empath bitching is due to too much dev. Paladins and Sorcerers for the lack of.

None of the unwanted changes will go live for Empaths and Clerics. Mark my words.

[Asrial]

None of the unwanted changes will go live for Empaths and Clerics. Mark my words.We will.

Vivaldi sums up the root of my complaining about the changes. We don't need Divine Wrath changed. We don't need Crusade. I love the attention, I do, but these seem to be changes for the sake of changes (which I'd rather see this attention put on other professions).

..and Rimalon, you'd rather see the spell make it into the game in its original version?

I strongly disagree with anyone that honestly thinks clerics should have a mass attack player unfriendly KILLING spell.

[Rimalon]

..and Rimalon, you'd rather see the spell make it into the game in its original version?

I strongly disagree with anyone that honestly thinks clerics should have a mass attack player unfriendly KILLING spell.

Honestly, you guys complained your way into 3 seconds of hard RT when you totally shouldn't have.

This isn't 1997. Hunting grounds aren't crowded. The spell as they first proposed it was insanely, insanely powerful. So what if you kill people with it?

...You can then raise them for free XP afterward!

Oscuro had it right when he posted about the rarity of mass-attack spells actually hitting people. People use them all the time, and there aren't as many accidental deaths as the complaining Clerics seemed to think there are/would be. And that's said with the understanding that 319/335 takes a while to "charge up".

Less Disneyfication of the game is always good. You know what? I actually would welcome Cone of Lightning being made player-unfriendly. Let's get dangerous up in this bitch.

[Mikalmas]

All this profession envy bullshit is stupid.

Oscuro and Estild didn't wilt over anything. They listened to their profession's player base and responded. This is absolutely nothing but jealousy on the part of some of you, plain and simple.

I, and several others, expressed our reasons for concern (primarily uncontrollable DoT), so I'm not going to get into all that again here, but it was an expression of concern, not "If you don't fix this I'm going to quit!" or "whining" as you all like to call it. The proposals were presented by the Cleric/Empath gurus (Why the fuck do you people think teh Cleric/Empath team shouldn't do things for clerics and empaths like listen to them?), the player base (I'm speaking for myself as a cleric) voiced our concerns over the course of 2-3 days, and Estild/Oscuro responded with a reasonable compromise. There's still a more powerful non-player friendly version, and we still have access to our basic player friendly version (that already exists now, I'll remind you) for twice the mana cost (albeit this is slightly offset by the increased damage its supposed to do). I doubt you would have heard as much complaining if it had been as simple as Major Elemental Wave, which you fire off and the damage is done. Divine Wrath is a very different spell by design.

[TheWitch]

I would say it's fairly safe to assume they came into it willing to compromise, but then I don't trust anyone.

[Rimalon]

Let's get dangerous up in this bitch.

http://jefferykrit.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/darkwing3.jpg

[Asrial]

I would say it's fairly safe to assume they came into it willing to compromise, but then I don't trust anyone.You trusted me when I said I wanted to do some testing on you....

[Widgets]

http://jefferykrit.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/darkwing3.jpg

I love Darkwing Duck

[droit]

>When using spike thorn, does the "you feel oddly lucky" messaging denote the same type of mechanic used by 1006 with maneuvers--namely, that the cast is rolled twice and the higher of the two rolls is used?

The Spike Thorn luck roll differs from Song of Luck rolls. Basically, there's a small chance that you'll be rolling a d100 + an offset to determine the final result, which can be either positive or negative depending on the initial roll.

>Also (trying again here), do any stats play a role in 616? If so, which stats and what roles? -Droit

Both Dexterity and Agility bonuses aid in defending against Spike Thorn. The caster's stats don't affect the offensive roll.

-M[estys]

[Fallen]

Good post Droit, thanks for X-posting.

[droit]

I asked for some clarification of his first statement. Waiting on a response.

[droit]

>Could I ask for a clarification of this statement, please? I'll describe it as I interpret it: If the d100 is a 1 or 2, say, the modifier to the initial roll will be negative. If the d100 is 99 or 100 or thereabouts, the modifier will be positive. But the "You feel oddly lucky" messaging is the same for both the positive and negative modifiers? Or is there some unlucky messaging that I've been missing? -Droit

It's more of an open roll with a maximum of one iteration in either direction. So a 1 or 2 would have a negative die roll added to it, and a 99 or 100 would have a positive one.

The unlucky messaging will only be shown to the target, when the caster receives the lucky messaging. When the caster gets a low roll, the target will get the lucky messaging, but there won't be any unlucky messaging for the caster.

Basically, you'll only see the unlucky messaging when you're about to lose a leg/life.

-M.

[LadyLaphrael]

Ba-zing.


>>Any chance that the threshold for audience reps could be lowered by a person? It's rather difficult to find 5 people in one spot a lot of the time in Illistim.

Good point. The audience threshold has been reduced to 4 people for Lock Mastery, Rogue Gambits and Sorcerer Illusions.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team

[TheLastShamurai]

Nice.

[Latrinsorm]

No love for warrior trick reps? :(

[Rathain]

Not sure how many people actually use the spell, but here's the exact % of Searing Light's effect on casted spells.

>>What exactly is the 'chance' that the creature's spell will be interrupted by Searing Light, and is it effected by any other secondary factors (trainable or otherwise) ?

90%. No

= - GM Oscuro - =

Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team

[LadyLaphrael]

KWT, fka Greame, sashes have been updated to do the following:

1. Allow 2 katanas
2. Allow sais
3. Allow a LONG with a SHOW if you so choose upon alteration (there is a built in LOOK for you which can be changed)
4. Allow for a different material other than silk, if you so choose upon alteration. It must be a soft cloth though. No leathers, suedes, or harder materials.
5. Some messaging that is different if you are erithi
6. Supports a custom loresong being added to yours (provided, of course, you win such a beastie)
7. Supports a READ
8. still works with a wakisashi or a tanto
9. Supports any combination of 2 allowable weapons (i.e. 2 tantos, a tanto and a wak, etc)

Original KWTs will automatically convert themselves to fit new abilities, so you shouldn't need to do anything ;)

Altering guidelines:
1. Bear in mind that some GMs may not be comfortable altering them, as these are a bit more complicated than your ordinary alteration.
2. Some merchants might not alter them because it doesn't fit their personality ;)
3. The two scabbards are always set off the left hip, one slighty lower than the other.
4. Allowable nouns (the 3rd 15, aka the activator) can only be: harness, sash, vatanura
5. Harnesses material is wound up more like a cord from which the scabbards are suspended. Sashes and vatanuras are more like..well...sashes. ;)
6. Nothing in your SHOW or your LONG or your BASE should contradict the essence of these items (corded cloth or sashed cloth from which hang 2 scabbards off the left hip)

Hope you enjoy!

--Xynwen--
"The stars go waltzing out in blue and red, And arbitrary blackness gallops in"
reply

http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=102&category=10&topic=7&message=992

[Winter's Kiss]

http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=102&category=10&topic=7&message=992


Kick ass..

[Rimalon]

Maneuvers that benefit from having a shield when defending against will also benefit greatly from an active Wall of Force.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team

[Latrinsorm]

I assume Wall of Force will also be made appropriately susceptible to Sunder Shield?

[Baelog]

Probably not, unfortunately. I'd love to Sunder some WoF off of critters

[Tea & Strumpets]

Maneuvers that benefit from having a shield when defending against will also benefit greatly from an active Wall of Force.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team

Which CMANs benefit the target if it has a shield?

[Androidpk]

I'm not sure about cmans but I would assume they're talking about attacks such as the soul golem pushing you into a steam vent.

[Baelog]

The spiny urchins or whatever under Icemule will throw there spines at you, and if you have a shield you have a much better chance of outright dodging them by ducking behind the shield

[Donquix]

(in regards to warrior trick rep timers...)

That's...silly. I've changed it so the timer now caps based on the number of reps you earned. It should be far less ridiculous now.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team

[Winter's Kiss]

(in regards to warrior trick rep timers...)

That's...silly. I've changed it so the timer now caps based on the number of reps you earned. It should be far less ridiculous now.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team



YAY! HOLY GOD FINALLY!

[Loyrl]

(in regards to warrior trick rep timers...)

That's...silly. I've changed it so the timer now caps based on the number of reps you earned. It should be far less ridiculous now.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team

less ridiculous I don't seem to ever get above 180 seconds cause of the amount of people around now.

[B2]

To be fair to Oscuro, he only took over the Overall Guild Mechanics duties in the past few months.

[Winter's Kiss]

I know the GMs work hard and do what they're told to and everything.. But they really need to go through and overhaul the old systems first.. You know, like FORGING.. Or maybe giving rangers something in their guild..


Would be nice for them to stop releasing new problems into the system and fix the old shit first. You know.. For once..

[ElvenFury]

I know the GMs work hard and do what they're told to and everything.. But they really need to go through and overhaul the old systems first.. You know, like FORGING.. Or maybe giving rangers something in their guild..


Would be nice for them to stop releasing new problems into the system and fix the old shit first. You know.. For once..

A lot of those old things do get assigned, but it's usually to the old-as-the-hills coders who can handle going through the arcane code. And there's only a few of those. I know Bernt had the forging rewrite for a while, but then I guess he fizzled out. I'm pretty sure he's on leave at the moment.

So, same shit different day. It won't change until they actually start paying dev people to stick around.

[Donquix]

Forging/Mining is being worked on by some new guy now...i forget what his name is. Haven't heard much from him before but he posted ont he officials about it not too long ago.

He said he was hopeful for a 2009 release, but wasn't making promises...said it would likely be 2010...which means we can expect it in 2016

[Donquix]

I just got curious and double checked, his name is Vanern

[Donquix]

>>Maybe Monks have the ability to increase max stamina and stamina recovery rate of any group they are part of. Just an idea.

They will have something similar. Spell 1213, Mind over Body, will decrease stamina activation costs for the Monk and his group members.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team

^

[droit]

Hmm. That's probably for CMs only, huh? Not sigils?

[Donquix]

Hmm. That's probably for CMs only, huh? Not sigils?

oh good call, forgot about sigils. I replied asking if it included mstriking before the cooldown was up.

[LadyLaphrael]

This just makes me wonder which will come first...fixing group hiding or monks. The more stuff that gets released that benefits/encourages groups will continue to make me roll my eyes until group hiding gets fixed.

[waywardgs]

This just makes me wonder which will come first...fixing group hiding or monks. The more stuff that gets released that benefits/encourages groups will continue to make me roll my eyes until group hiding gets fixed.

this.

Group benefits for every class EXCEPT those that hide because there're too lazy/scared to fix old code? It's a big fuck you. I'd love to be completely invested in stalking/hiding/stealth training, but I have to train for both if I want to hunt in a group, which means I'm mediocre at both instead of great at one.

[TheLastShamurai]

>>oh....will that include costs for mstriking before your cooldown is up?

Yes. It will apply to anything that goes through the standard stamina cost check, which should be everything.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team

.

[ElvenFury]

Holy crap. Berserking warriors just made new friends, big time.

[Danical]

I don't understand the context :(

[droit]

>>Sorry, I know you said "everything," but sometimes everything doesn't mean every thing, if you know what I mean.

>>Are Sunfist sigils included?

Yes. Everything means everything. If something is not included in the effect, report it via BUG or a post when beta testing starts (no, I don't have a date for you guys, sorry).

= - GM Oscuro - =

Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team

.

[LadyLaphrael]

>>Though I know dates are still well up in the air, is there any possibility we'll be seeing a fix (or even a temporary band-aid type fix) to the group hiding mechanics before this incredibly useful spell comes into fruition?


The group hiding issue has become a priority, so it's possible, but I can't make any promises.

= - GM Oscuro - =

[Fallen]

That is nuts. It will skew mana production for certain GoS classes even further.

[Danical]

>inc 1020
You change your tune slightly, adding the element for Traveler's Song to your song...
Your spellsong is ready.
You weave another verse into your harmony.
Nothing much happens. Hmm.
Sing Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>inc 1020
You change your tune slightly, adding the element for Traveler's Song to your song...
Your spellsong is ready.
You weave another verse into your harmony.
You sing a song of revelry, bringing to life the memories of such wonderous merrymaking that you feel as though you never left so long ago. Visions of the drink and the dance fill your mind. Your vision blurs, your surroundings shift and you suddenly realize you are not quite where you were before!

>I've never seen the bolded part happen. Ever. Something changed? -- dan/gnimble



No change... the "nothing much happens" messaging is one of the standard failure results.

-M.

[Danical]

>1005 isn't giving me experience as a helper for a kill nor does it seem to be affecting the phat lewtz. -- dan/gnimble


Lullabye was updated with the rest of the disabling spells in November of 2007 with the standard unconsciousness contribution toward a creature kill. The contribution applies to the "eyes flutter" and "deep slumber" successes.

-M.

[Bhuryn]

Man, if that spell significantly reduces the stamina cost my empath needs some monk friends.

[Danical]

>>Wow... so monks AREN'T dead?


No...

>cman smastery
You focus your mind on the shadows and gird your body for stealth.
>stamina
Stamina points: 104 remaining: 84
>incant 1213
You fold your hands and deeply intone a sonorous mantra, focusing your mind upon the Mind over Body spell...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture.
Your muscles ripple momentarily and you suddenly become aware of a multitude of your body's processes. You feel an unnatural control over your breathing, heart rate and muscle tension.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>
You feel at full magical power again.
You feel fully energetic again.
>
Your body relaxes as your thoughts stray from the shadows.
>
The residual strain on your mind of such intense focus on the shadows fades away.
>cman smastery
You focus your mind on the shadows and gird your body for stealth.
>stamina
Stamina points: 104 remaining: 90

= - GM Oscuro - =

Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team

[TheLastShamurai]

>Could someone remind me what skills factor into aiming from the open? - Metadi

The Ambush and Combat Maneuvers skills factor into aimed hurled attacks from the open. Ambush skill alone is taken into account when aiming from hiding.

-M.

.

[Athgo]

On aiming and scars in the empath folder

>>I thought minor eye scars interefered with called shots?

Nope.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team

[Fallen]

https://www.play.net/images/transparent.gifhttps://www.play.net/images/transparent.gif>Is there a reason you cannot use any form of dispel magic to remove Tangleweed vine? -LORDKRIP

Not particularly, no. The various dispel spells should now properly take out vines.

-M.

[droit]

The one factor that has a lot of conflicting information flying around is stance. Could you please just tell us which stance is preferable for avoiding these burrows? -Droit


Defensive.

GameMaster Estild
Cleric/Empath Team

[Fallen]

I dislike that it seems rather arbitrary which stance helps or hinders against which maneuver. It would be nice if there were messaging during the attack indicating whether or not your stance was a factor in the outcome.

[droit]

I think its more standard than we think, there's just a lot of misinformation out there. This was a post just preceding Estild's answer:



>>Could the factors that help dodge the burrow mechanics be listed please? Something like the response players got to Illoke's Stone Fist would be great.

It uses the standard maneuver roll. Everything we've been saying affects the "standard maneuver roll" over the years affects this, including the fact that burghal gnomes have a huge racial bonus. ;)

= - GM Oscuro - =

Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team


I take these two quotes to mean that all standard maneuver rolls are better defended against in defensive stance.

[Asha]

.

I always thought perception was included in aiming from open

[Fallen]

I think its more standard than we think, there's just a lot of misinformation out there. This was a post just preceding Estild's answer:



I take these two quotes to mean that all standard maneuver rolls are better defended against in defensive stance.

I remember a GM specifically posting that some maneuvers were better faced in more aggressive stances than others. It may be that those maneuvers better handled in offensive stances are the exception to the rule, but as maneuver rolls are all 100% hidden except for IC messaging, you never know unless the GM confirms it.

[Archigeek]

I recall hearing the offensive stance comment as well, though I can't place the context.

[The Ponzzz]

Not sure if this was stated, but Mestys posted this a while ago.

http://gsguide.net/index.php?title=Creature_Maneuver_Defense

[Asrial]

Yeah, I've always been under the impression you want to be in offensive to avoid maneuver attacks.

..but whatever..

Force squares to stance dance and give me another benefit to stay in guarded ;)

[droit]

I remember a GM specifically posting that some maneuvers were better faced in more aggressive stances than others. It may be that those maneuvers better handled in offensive stances are the exception to the rule, but as maneuver rolls are all 100% hidden except for IC messaging, you never know unless the GM confirms it.

Do what you will, but I'll try to stay in defensive.

[StrayRogue]

Yeah, I've always been under the impression you want to be in offensive to avoid maneuver attacks.

..but whatever..

Force squares to stance dance and give me another benefit to stay in guarded ;)

Me three. Kind of makes all that CM training a bit pointless as a square now, if the best defense is stance.

[ElvenFury]

I remember a GM specifically posting that some maneuvers were better faced in more aggressive stances than others. It may be that those maneuvers better handled in offensive stances are the exception to the rule, but as maneuver rolls are all 100% hidden except for IC messaging, you never know unless the GM confirms it.

I think I remember this. I don't remember if a dev GM actually confirmed it, but do remember a dozen or so players complaining that it was asinine while Zyllah tried to defend it. I think it was one of the old pre-CM system creature maneuvers.

[ElvenFury]

Me three. Kind of makes all that CM training a bit pointless as a square now, if the best defense is stance.

How do you figure? Just because your defense is highest while in defensive (seems pretty intuitive to me) that doesn't mean you don't get a worthwhile boost from CM training in any/all stances.

[StrayRogue]

How do you figure? Just because your defense is highest while in defensive (seems pretty intuitive to me) that doesn't mean you don't get a worthwhile boost from CM training in any/all stances.

Because unless it's a roa'ter attack, the only time I ever get tagged is while I am in offensive.

[ElvenFury]

Because unless it's a roa'ter attack, the only time I ever get tagged is while I am in offensive.

Ok... but how does that render your CM training pointless? You'd just get hit even easier without it, or do you have to be 100% immune before you consider it worthwhile?

[Archigeek]

Squares HAVE to go to offensive stance to attack. Sucks to be us I guess. The big irony is that before BCS, warriors had a profession bonus vs roa'ters and other maneuvers that was pretty substantial. Not in the league of rogue hiding bonus, but high none the less. Now, because they more than anyone else have to spend the most time in offensive, they essentially have a penalty where they used to get a bonus.

[droit]

Becca is correct. The Arcane circle will be out before Ebon Gate.

GameMaster Estild
Cleric/Empath Team

[StrayRogue]

Ok... but how does that render your CM training pointless? You'd just get hit even easier without it, or do you have to be 100% immune before you consider it worthwhile?

I'd rather the almighty "pure-bane" be more effective against pures than squares in their native stance.

[StrayRogue]

Squares HAVE to go to offensive stance to attack. Sucks to be us I guess. The big irony is that before BCS, warriors had a profession bonus vs roa'ters and other maneuvers that was pretty substantial. Not in the league of rogue hiding bonus, but high none the less. Now, because they more than anyone else have to spend the most time in offensive, they essentially have a penalty where they used to get a bonus.

This.

[Latrinsorm]

Squares HAVE to go to offensive stance to attack. Sucks to be us I guess.Not true, especially for warriors (stance perfection).

[Danical]

We still don't know just how important Stance is in the Standard Maneuver Roll.

Warriors actually end up with the best maneuver defense still, but not because of an explicit profession bonus. It's simply because they can train most cheaply and the most times in the skills that contribute the most. When dodge is added into the equation, I anticipate (but I can't guarantee) all three squares (Warriors, Rogues and Monks) will share this advantage.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team

[StrayRogue]

When dodge is added into the equation, I anticipate (but I can't guarantee) all three squares (Warriors, Rogues and Monks) will share this advantage.



Which is never going to happen.

[Danical]

I'm thinking PF is really huge for the Standard Maneuver Roll because when I upped mine from 24 to 202 I feel like I gained an insane ability to dodge maneuvers couple that with reducing armor hindrance with AU and warriors are pretty beastly vs maneuvers.

[Celephais]

They're calling monks squares? They're getting their own spell circle...

[Gelston]

They're calling monks squares? They're getting their own spell circle...

The monk spell circle got dropped a while ago. They will have the minor mental circle.

[Drew]

I'm thinking PF is really huge for the Standard Maneuver Roll because when I upped mine from 24 to 202 I feel like I gained an insane ability to dodge maneuvers couple that with reducing armor hindrance with AU and warriors are pretty beastly vs maneuvers.

Yes I believe that PF is the number 1 factor in standard maneuvers.

[StrayRogue]

Wouldn't that make empaths super awesome at avoiding them then?

[Drew]

Wouldn't that make empaths super awesome at avoiding them then?

It would make them better that's for certain. However if PF is worth 20%, CM 15%, perception 10%, stance 35%, stats 20% and spells 10% that wouldn't make them incredible solo based on PF training.


EDIT: I probably should have clarified that I believe PF is the number 1 thing you can train in for avoiding maneuvers.

[StrayRogue]

It would still make them the 2nd best profession in the game for avoiding maneuvers, which is very funky.

[Archigeek]

Not true, especially for warriors (stance perfection).

That's just splitting hairs though. Big deal, you can go 95% instead of 100%. That's not going to make a lick of difference on this issue.

[Drew]

That's just splitting hairs though. Big deal, you can go 95% instead of 100%. That's not going to make a lick of difference on this issue.

I think he means you can go stance 35% and swing only from that without having to stance dance.

[Drew]

It would still make them the 2nd best profession in the game for avoiding maneuvers, which is very funky.




I suppose if they had full CM and full perception is would make them close to warriors but that is way beyond post cap (can empaths train 3x in perception?)

[StrayRogue]

No, but they can cheaply 3x PT. 150 ranks of CM isn't out of the realms of possibility either. They can train in perception as much as a warrior I believe (2x?)

[Danical]

Well, this is again why I think empaths are fucking retarded but that's a whole other story.

[Fallen]

Player of Athenar Gelarne Faendryl, half-Faendryl Summoner2) Becca: Just because they are rolling out 1700s circle items at EG, I would not take that as a sign that the circle is going to be released in the next month. I think it more likely that this is a preview and will allow some people early access to some of the spells we will be getting at some point in the foreseeable future. I do not know if the Arcane Circle is still slated for release this year or not, honestly. Possibly by the end of the year.

Becca is correct. The Arcane circle will be out before Ebon Gate.

GameMaster Estild
Cleric/Empath Team

[StrayRogue]

WTF is the arcane circle?

[Fallen]

https://www.play.net/gs4/info/spells/spelllist.asp?circle=14

[Nilandia]

WTF is the arcane circle?
Here's a post I wrote for Plat. Might help explain a few things. Those who know, feel free to correct anything I've mistaken or left out.



This should be of a bit of assistance.

http://www.play.net/gs4/info/spells/spelllist.asp?circle=14

In essence, the arcane spell list is meant for spells in items we usually will not have access to cast on our own. We already have things similar to that like quartz orbs, small statues and crystal wands. Those spells will be moved onto the arcane spell list when the list is released, and we'll also see the other spells listed.

As of right now, we don't know the details of most of the other spells, though fire storm and deathcloud should be familiar to many. I believe I recall hearing about arcane decoy, the level 1 spell, being cast as dispell fodder so a dispell would take the decoy and not something more valuable.

I believe I recall would be that the circle is considered native to everyone, so it wouldn't be subject to Rift spell stripping, lores apply at full force and it would be relatively easy for wizards to charge items.


Gretchen

[TheLastShamurai]

Preliminary tests suggest only rank 3 limb wounds trigger the action. Additionally, the acid trigger seems to be a standard maneuver roll; I'm not being hit nearly as much now (at cap) than I ever did at like level.

Could a NIR please verify the acid splash is on a Standard Maneuver Roll?

-- dan/gnimble


>Could a NIR please verify the acid splash is on a Standard Maneuver Roll? -- dan/gnimble

It is.

-M.

.

[droit]

ARAMIUS
I'm saving my set of crit padded robes for monks...hopefully monks will make robes actually feasable :P


Crit padded robes are definitely viable on Monks or Savants with Iron Skin (1202).

GameMaster Estild
Cleric/Empath Team

[zhelas]

Illusions are definitely not the domain of Sorcerers alone. Sorcerers were given their Illusions guild skill out of necessity, but they were given it with the stipulation that this was not an indicator that they were somehow now the sole masters of that aspect of magic, and there has never been an effort (at least by the GMs) to portray Sorcerers as such. Bards were originally to be the most illusion-based class (back when they had Illusionary Item and Illusionary Creature on their spell list). Those spells were ultimately discarded and since replaced with Lullabye and Song of Valor, but the decision to change was for technical reasons and mechanical needs, not due to a desire to remove illusions from Bards. Bards and Wizards still have illusions in their lists.

I consider Mentalism to be more tied into illusion/messing with another person's perception of reality than either Wizards or Sorcerers. I don't expect to focus heavily on that aspect, but there will be a small number of spells representing illusion on the Mental lists.

And no, sorcerers are not getting Minor Mental.

Warden

[zhelas]

I think Warden's post clearly shows there is no Vision for Sorcerers.

Sorcerers do the Mundane Guild Tasks for the title of Master of Illusions for a band aid on a utility spell, 725.

The spell list contains, spiritual, elemental, illusions, and mental qualities. Yet the class will not be considered for the Minor Circle.

Are they demonologists or necromancers? Maybe the Sorcerer Lore Review can determine that.

So what are Sorcerers Masters of? ..............Whining?

Peace

[Celephais]

I think Warden's post clearly shows there is no Vision for Sorcerers.

Sorcerers do the Mundane Guild Tasks for the title of Master of Illusions for a band aid on a utility spell, 725.

The spell list contains, spiritual, elemental, illusions, and mental qualities. Yet the class will not be considered for the Minor Circle.
So are you advocating that sorcerers lose the sorcerer base list and get the minor mental circle?


Are they demonologists or necromancers? Maybe the Sorcerer Lore Review can determine that.
I think it's pretty clear that they're both or either or neither depending on how you train...


So what are Sorcerers Masters of? ..............Whining?
You play a sorcerer, right? Yes. (Insert me whining about the spells taken away from wizards and put in the arcane circle).

[Widgets]

Loresong changes again from Mestys


>I recently found a yew heavy crossbow that when sung to shows that it 'inflicts more fearsome wounds when it strikes'. -- Faulkil

Sighted ranged weapons should now give better feedback when loresung.

-M.



The song now indicates that 'the harmonics generated tell you that the crossbow assists its bearer with aiming attacks at range.'

Thanks!

-- Faulkil

[droit]

>Expensive for just one rank of overtraining there, and for rather less effect than PF, which I don't think has much benefit either, but at least more than that.

Physical Fitness is the primary skill for defense against standard creature maneuvers.

Coase

[droit]

>perception and CM are also things that factor into it. Is one of those more important than the other, or do they also factor equally? And are there other skills that factor in?

Physical Fitness > Combat Maneuvers >= Perception. Shield Use factors into some maneuvers, but not all. Those are the standard skills that are taken into account.

Coase

[WRoss]

>perception and CM are also things that factor into it. Is one of those more important than the other, or do they also factor equally? And are there other skills that factor in?

Physical Fitness > Combat Maneuvers >= Perception. Shield Use factors into some maneuvers, but not all. Those are the standard skills that are taken into account.

Coase

Seems like empaths get another one-up on other professions.

[droit]

Seems like empaths have had another one-up on other professions.

Fixed.

[Drew]

Yes I believe that PF is the number 1 factor in standard maneuvers.



Physical Fitness is the primary skill for defense against standard creature maneuvers.

Coase



This is why I'm hot.

[Danical]

Fuck empaths :(

[crb]

And dwarven empaths especially since con is factored in right along with pf.

[Danical]

And dwarven empaths especially since con is factored in right along with pf.

errr, CON affects natural Crit Padding so if you got hit then it would be a factor but dex/agi affects your chances to get hit.

[BriarFox]

Fuck empaths :(

:yeahthat:

However, 2x PF with 1x CM and 2x perception, with a 62 natural AGIDEX bonus, is looking pretty good. Woot.

[BigWorm]

:yeahthat:

However, 2x PF with 1x CM and 2x perception, with a 62 natural AGIDEX bonus, is looking pretty good. Woot.

I do alright with 2x PF, 1.5x CM, and 2x perception. Don't notice much difference from when I was melee and had 2x CM, but definitely noticed a difference when I jumped from 1.5x PT to 2x PT.

[Loyrl]

Looks like I figured out what to do with my spare points, time to start headed up the 3x PF route. How much does perception help?

[droit]

Looks like I figured out what to do with my spare points, time to start headed up the 3x PF route. How much does perception help?

Definitely wish I could 3x PF. Perception is tied with CM in maneuver defense, so it probably helps a good bit. It's also the cheapest maneuver defense skill for just about anyone but warriors.

[Asrial]

I'm badass with my 22 PT, 0 CM, and 30 ranks of perception.

Truthfully though.. I don't notice myself getting hit by maneuvers a ton.. even wearing chainmail and slightly encumbered.

I suspect that while these skills help.. they don't help tremendously.

[WRoss]

I'm badass with my 22 PT, 0 CM, and 30 ranks of perception.

Truthfully though.. I don't notice myself getting hit by maneuvers a ton.. even wearing chainmail and slightly encumbered.

I suspect that while these skills help.. they don't help tremendously.

and what level are you?

[Endlin]

This is why I'm hot.

That and some really nice fucking chain.

[BigWorm]

>perception and CM are also things that factor into it. Is one of those more important than the other, or do they also factor equally? And are there other skills that factor in?

Physical Fitness > Combat Maneuvers >= Perception. Shield Use factors into some maneuvers, but not all. Those are the standard skills that are taken into account.

Coase


Definitely wish I could 3x PF. Perception is tied with CM in maneuver defense, so it probably helps a good bit. It's also the cheapest maneuver defense skill for just about anyone but warriors.

I read that as perception can have UP TO an equal effect as CM. So 3x perception would be equivalent to 2x CM. We should probably ask in the Rift thread again, but I Grendeg has been melting my brain in there too much so I can't handle it.

[holocene]

3x PF, 2x cman, 1 x perception...modified AGIDEX bonus of 90. A crawler has swallowed me but never killed me outright. That's with just a few hours on plane 4.

[Inspire]

Items with temporary anything can't be tempered.

--
Naos

I'm immune to fire!

[Inspire]

This is what I come back to? Seriously?

Btw, potion pouring uses a standard POUR magic item use activation similar to the other activators. I know, I was surprised to find out there even was one, too!

--
Naos

I'm immune to fire!

[Rathain]

I'm badass with my 22 PT, 0 CM, and 30 ranks of perception.

Truthfully though.. I don't notice myself getting hit by maneuvers a ton.. even wearing chainmail and slightly encumbered.

I suspect that while these skills help.. they don't help tremendously.

Remember to account for your race - you play an elf, right ? Elves receive a decently sized standard maneuver roll bonus (second only to burghal gnomes). That may influence your dodge and survival rate despite not having a training plan focused on PT, CM, or perception.

[Asrial]

and what level are you?100. In the day to day hunting in Nelemar, I don't suffer the catastrophic maneuver failures other level 100 people have happen to them.

25 dexterity bonus.. 37 agility bonus..

I did get smacked around a lot by griffins during the Solhaven stuff.. but I dunno if that's an issue with there being 5 griffins present or a skills thing.

Truth be told.. I think the ONLY maneuver attack that has ever worried me, at the same level as what I'm hunting, were roa'ters in Varunar.

[Asrial]

Remember to account for your race - you play an elf, right ? Elves receive a decently sized standard maneuver roll bonus (second only to burghal gnomes). That may influence your dodge and survival rate despite not having a training plan focused on PT, CM, or perception.Elf, yeah. That seems odd that an ELF would have that kind of bonus.

I guess we're all Legolas clones :D

[Danical]

100. In the day to day hunting in Nelemar, I don't suffer the catastrophic maneuver failures other level 100 people have happen to them.

25 dexterity bonus.. 37 agility bonus..

I did get smacked around a lot by griffins during the Solhaven stuff.. but I dunno if that's an issue with there being 5 griffins present or a skills thing.

Truth be told.. I think the ONLY maneuver attack that has ever worried me, at the same level as what I'm hunting, were roa'ters in Varunar.

There aren't a lot of maneuvers on the top floor if that's where you predominately hunt. CMans, sure, but not maneuvers. About the only one I can think of off the top of my head is an ewave triggered by a conch.

[The Ponzzz]

Yeah SMR does not equal CMAN. So don't think the things involved in the SMR are going to help with things like charge or subdual strike.

And as always...

http://gsguide.net/index.php?title=Standard_Creature_Maneuver_Defense

Feel free to add onto this.

[crb]

errr, CON affects natural Crit Padding so if you got hit then it would be a factor but dex/agi affects your chances to get hit.

Any manuever that takes pf into account is going to take con into account. con, of course, is ALSO natural crit padding.

[Danical]

Any manuever that takes pf into account is going to take con into account. con, of course, is ALSO natural crit padding.

We know about dex/agi but we've never once had anyone say anything about con. I'm not sure why you'd assume con would.

[BigWorm]

Any manuever that takes pf into account is going to take con into account. con, of course, is ALSO natural crit padding.

Do you have any evidence for this or is this purely assumption?

[WRoss]

We know about dex/agi but we've never once had anyone say anything about con. I'm not sure why you'd assume pf would.

You can put me as a reference on your resume that you participated in a scholarly debate about the physics of Elanthia.

[Danical]

Opps, I meant to say . . . not sure why you'd assume CON would.

[Asrial]

The armor penalty is a relatively significant factor. For a character exactly trained for full plate at cap, it contributes a penalty a little bit above the difference between 1x and 2x PF. Overtraining in armor to reduce the action penalty and/or using Armored Evasion can reduce the maneuver penalty by a fairly significant amount, however.

Coase

~~~~~

This is in regarding maneuver defense.

http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=102&category=4&topic=50&message=4610

[Archigeek]

The armor penalty is a relatively significant factor. For a character exactly trained for full plate at cap, it contributes a penalty a little bit above the difference between 1x and 2x PF. Overtraining in armor to reduce the action penalty and/or using Armored Evasion can reduce the maneuver penalty by a fairly significant amount, however.

Coase

~~~~~

This is in regarding maneuver defense.

http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=102&category=4&topic=50&message=4610

Yeah... and if you've been reading that thread you can see how happy I am about it. It's not like my personal wants have anything to do with anything, but basically this really sucks if you're in full plate. 140 ranks can really no longer be considered "fully trained" for full plate, if that puts you at a deficiency that's equivelent to in excess of 100 ranks of Pf. Ick. Why wear heavy armor if it means nothing vs a physical attack?

[Fallen]

What we never got an answer on is whether your armor class makes a difference in the damage done during a maneuver. I believe it does.

[BriarFox]

What we never got an answer on is whether your armor class makes a difference in the damage done during a maneuver. I believe it does.

I know it does for spike thorn. That probably holds true for other maneuvers.

[Fallen]

Agreed.

[thefarmer]

I think armor class should have a greater effect on maneuver damage (higher class=less damage) than crit padding, though I think the opposite is true currently.

[Archigeek]

In the case of the crawler burrows, there's no evidence that higher class armor helps reduce damage whatsoever. That's based on anectdotal evidence mind you, but there's plenty of it. I tend to think you should be more likely to get hit in heavy armor, but take less damage.

[Fallen]

In the case of the crawler burrows, there's no evidence that higher class armor helps reduce damage whatsoever. That's based on anectdotal evidence mind you, but there's plenty of it. I tend to think you should be more likely to get hit in heavy armor, but take less damage.

This, with exception of maneuvers which involve lightning, is what would make the most sense. However, assuming something makes sense in gemstone is dangerous business. Hell, they may look at the code and find out something has been broken for the last 10 years and fix it. Happens often enough.

[Belnia]

Metal breastplate is looking like the real champ today. An Action Penalty 15 lower than full plate (20 as opposed to 35), only a loss of 3 CvA compared to full plate, and still the plate crit divisor?

Viva la partial coverage!

[crb]

Do you have any evidence for this or is this purely assumption?

it was mentioned way back when gs3 was converted into gs4. I was particularly excited about it, being a dwarf, with a big con.

Why do we assume dexterity is a factor?

Dexterity, afterall, is agility of the hands, not agility of the body.

[crb]

Also, why is it assumed that there is no manuever bonus for being a dwarf?

GMs have said there is, for all short races, on certain manuevers. A height thing or whatever. The benefit we get for not being able to head ambush.

For instance, adept motes. Times I've been hit by one going back to 2001 (or whenever it opened) when I was level ~120 (thus, well younger than adepts) hunting in otf: 0.

I could never figured out why other, non-dwarves, complained about them so much.

[Fallen]

They're ugly.

[Latrinsorm]

Also, why is it assumed that there is no manuever bonus for being a dwarf?Burghal Gnomes - Best
Halflings, Forest Gnomes, and Elves - Excellent (previously was the best)
Half-Elves, Dark Elves, Sylvankind, Erithians, and Aelotoi - Good
Everyone else - Average

Because Warden said so, on May 31st, 2007, for "most non-CMAN maneuvers that creatures use".
GMs have said there is, for all short races, on certain manuevers.I've found that smaller targets are easier to tackle, sometimes significantly so. I look forward to the specifics of your statement, though.

[droit]

it was mentioned way back when gs3 was converted into gs4. I was particularly excited about it, being a dwarf, with a big con.

Why do we assume dexterity is a factor?

Because of this:


Spells such as Mobility (618), Prayer (313), and Dauntless (1606) will benefit you. Ranks in Combat Maneuvers, Perception, and Physical Fitness will also be of assistance. The Dexterity and Agility stats also play a role.

-Mestys

[Fallen]

One thing to keep in mind regarding the roa'ter maneuvers is that they are highly deadly to anyone who spends much time in front of them - square, semi, or pure - due to the simple fact that the maneuver itself (differentiated from the standard maneuver roll) has pretty high natural fumble setting. A fumbled result generally deals maximum damage regardless of the maneuver roll result, so even if you're maximally trained for the maneuver roll, roa'ters will still kill you on the semi-frequent occasions that you fumble.

If you have been happy with your training prior to hunting roa'ters, I do not suggest massively rearranging your training to cope with their potent burrow attack - while you can certainly reduce the frequency of being grazed by the attack, on the whole, you will still fumble and generally die on occasion, regardless of what you train in.

Coase

[Androidpk]

I hunted roa'ter a couple times at level 32, well undertrained for full plate too. Only got hit by the manuever once and it wasn't bad at all. Guess I got pretty lucky. Most of the time I dodged them.

[crb]

Burghal Gnomes - Best
Halflings, Forest Gnomes, and Elves - Excellent (previously was the best)
Half-Elves, Dark Elves, Sylvankind, Erithians, and Aelotoi - Good
Everyone else - Average

Because Warden said so, on May 31st, 2007, for "most non-CMAN maneuvers that creatures use".I've found that smaller targets are easier to tackle, sometimes significantly so. I look forward to the specifics of your statement, though.

It was some smaller-targets harder to hit type deal.

[droit]

>Does the bonus 618 provides to avoiding standard critter maneuvers increase with dedicated training in the ranger circle? If so, is the bonus capped at level? -Droit

Yes, the Mobility bonus is dependent upon Ranger spell ranks. The bonus is not capped.

-M(estys)


Hot fucking damn.

[Fallen]

Rangers FTW.

[Latrinsorm]

Would it be so hard to just post the SMR formula? This cat and mouse stuff would drive me crazy if I was a GM.

[Archigeek]

Amen to that. I think we're about 60% there personally. I'm not sure I want to be the test subject for figuring out the last 40% though.

[Danical]

Hot fucking damn.

/raging boner

[Danical]

Hot fucking damn.

oh, you might also want to find out if it has diminishing returns or not.

[droit]

Already asked.

[zhelas]

Months late on this response, but the reality is professions do not have guru on an individual basis any more, and haven't for a long, long time. When I hired as a GameMaster, gurus were already long gone as far as professions were concerned.

What we have are teams that are responsible for developing classes of professions. For pures in particular, we have Estild and Oscuro who generally work on the spiritual side of things, and we have Strathspey and myself who generally work on the elemental side of things. However, these are loose associations at best. We are all responsible for multiple systems, and in some cases systems that have nothing to do with any one profession in particular. Sometimes, work on those systems takes precedence over work on professions, for whatever reason.

It'd be nice if every profession and system and whatever other subdivision of GemStone had a single GM assigned to it to focus on it to the exclusion of other things, but that isn't realistic for a long list of reasons. It works really well for some things, like towns, but sometimes it's better to have a team. Sometimes, the only option is a team.

--

Too-long-didn't-read version: No, no one is assigned to sorcery. We don't work that way.

--
Naos

[Fallen]

Too-long-didn't-read version: No, no one is assigned to sorcery. We don't work that way.

Naos

In other words, "Shut the fuck up, we have a whole team of people who don't give a shit about you."

[ZeP]

In other words, "Shut the fuck up, we have a whole team of people who don't give a shit about you."

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_YXAFRnAcHLI/RteCE2oho_I/AAAAAAAAAhs/UEN63WQbnIg/s400/pandahug.jpg

It'll be ok man

[Fallen]

In response to discussion of spell slots 745 and 750.


This is a pretty neat idea for a spell.

As an aside, we don't plan on implementing level 45 spells (so no 745 on the horizon, or elsewhere.)

--
Naos

I'm immune to fire!

[Stunseed]

Has anyone ever asked if moonstone cubes help with Warcries? I'm assuming not since it's a hidden roll, but it's worth a shot.

[AMUSED1]

Only intensity is specifically noted to be capped at level.

Every +AS/DS/CS/TD modifier in the game that provides a bonus based upon spell ranks caps at level.

GameMaster Estild
Cleric/Empath Team

[Fallen]

I wonder if implosion and boil earth's killing power caps at level, or keep going like spike thorn.

[Fallen]

For some reason when the spell 213 is cast to rest in an area, it kills the spawn rate.For example, if there are 8 people in one "area" and 5 of them stop to sit inside a sanctuary (213). The "area" now thinks there are 3 people there, instead of 8.(I'm assuming this bit, but if not, there is a different bug that is causing creatures to not spawn when there are 8 characters crammed into one area.)Please fix this, I hate having all the creatures disappear just because part of the group needs to rest. It's so bad that I can walk around for 5-10 minutes and a not a single creature will spawn.
.

This is working as intended. Creatures cannot spawn in sanctuaries, so players in a sanctuary are excluded from the formula to determine if additional creatures are needed in an area. This should not affect individuals if they're continuing to hunt outside the sanctuary since it will still count and spawn creatures due to their presence.

GameMaster Estild
Cleric/Empath Team

[Fallen]

This one was funny.


So this is the fourth merchant whom I've tried to have talked into making me a "glowing white leather alchemy bag" after I provided glowing white dye, made using glowing dye additive. After the first wouldn't touch it, I even dyed the bag myself! It's currently a glowing white cloth bag. -Fleurs


The policy regarding alterations using glowing dye created through alchemy has been clarified with the GM crew. The intent of the glowing additives is to dye items a glowing color. Future alterations requested when a glowing dye is provided should only be declined if the merchant has an in-character reason for doing so.

Note that this does not change the policy on what can or cannot be dyed, as certain materials will not hold a dye.

-M.

[Fallen]

Find the standards/limits whatever they are
Add them to the ALTER verb for reference.
Communicate those limits to the GMs so we don't have problems like this anymore.
.


We know what the limits are, because we have the tools to see when something is at its maximum capacity. So do you, in a more in-character and limited fashion, through use of the ANALYZE verb:

>analyze container
You can tell that the container is as light as it can get and that its pockets could not possibly get any deeper.

These numbers aren't fictional, by the way. They're a pretty intelligent system that cross-references weight and capacity. Being a system based on math and not magic, it is very consistent, as you found when you requested to have this item changed from one slot to another. Differently worn items have different maximums in the system.

On a side note, one player recently posted that they wanted an item fluffing service that made their items heavier and thus increased their future deepening capacity. I'm strongly considering running a service like this in the near future.

Auchand

Said the road to the frog.

[Stunseed]

Has anyone ever asked if moonstone cubes help with Warcries? I'm assuming not since it's a hidden roll, but it's worth a shot.

Bump.

Also, what factors are involved in the Max stats of +40 ( or 50, can't remember ) ?

For instance, you have a racial HP limit. For a warrior, you have cman toughness which adds HP and then enhansives and CON bonus.

[StrayRogue]

WHat do those cubes do?

[Fallen]

WHat do those cubes do?

I believe it is +10 to CMAN attack and defense.

[StrayRogue]

Awesome. Do they count towards spellburst or anything?

[Drew]

Awesome. Do they count towards spellburst or anything?

Nope.

[Fallen]

>This means you can receive a -20 penalty right off the bat using a shield Cman if both are spiked.

>Several people, myself included, have asked repeatedly that the single (and double) penalty be changed to something a little less absurd.

>No staff member commented that I can recall.

I responded then and I'll respond again -- that is not how the spiked penalty works, there is no double penalty for using a shield maneuver. Maneuvers that are compatible with spiked armor have one (1) associated armor location (head, arms, legs, torso, or shield).

If the active armor on that location is spiked then there is a -10 penalty to the maneuver roll in exchange for the chance for the spikes to flare. The reason that there is a -10 penalty is that spikes would be an essentially "free" damage otherwise. Spiked armor, given that it takes up no ability slots and can be added to any piece of armor -- no matter how heavily scripted or otherwise powerful, was designed to be an optional upgrade that requires the player (or item designer) to think about whether they wish to trade lower success rates for extra damage. It not just a straight upgrade.

Coase
*

.

[Nuc]

Does that mean that armor/shields only have a -10 penalty when performing a maneuver but not on the receiving end?

[Fallen]

>you will be able to call upon the power of this sigil even when stunned, webbed, bound, or suffering from roundtime.

>The real question is. Can you use Sigil of Escape if your muscles have popped?

Popped muscles are not included in the above list, no.

Coase
*

.

[mgoddess]

Every +AS/DS/CS/TD modifier in the game that provides a bonus based upon spell ranks caps at level.

GameMaster Estild
Cleric/Empath Team
Bringing this up and wondering if someone can post a question on this on the officials:

Spell 1611, Patron's Blessing, specifically states that the AS bonus is uncapped (versus the CMan bonus from the spell being capped). Is GM Estild saying the website is wrong, or is Estild wrong?

(For reference, 1611 on the play.net site: http://www.play.net/gs4/info/spells/spelllist.asp?circle=13#1611 )

[mgoddess]

Random (official) GM... 04-03-2010 08:18 PM since you can't fucking read, that "cap" is referred to the AS gained by going over natural 2x combat manuevers, has nothing to do with overtraining in paladin ranks. ARE YOU FEMALE OR JUST RETARDED?

Sorry your all fucking butthurt about a question over something that really isn't all that logical.

Or maybe I am a female and I need a male to point out all the littlest, tiniest things to me.

[Asrial]

(not literally by the way mgoddess!)