Level 4 Puncture Test

[Drunken Durfin]

For those who are interested.

Non-padded full plate.

Loresong:
The first thing that strikes you about the armor is the weight, which is about 6 pounds. In your best estimation, it's worth about 900,000 silvers. You can also tell that there is some type of metal in the structure of the beat-up armor.

It has a bonus of +35 from a normal armor, and the way it vibrates in tune with your voice tells you that it is plate armor.The beat-up armor seems to have some sort of unusual protection against damage.

As your song penetrates the beat-up armor, you determine that it is incredibly resistant to puncturing attacks.

Superior Fittings for Plate = 15K silver

The shots:

Some old beat-up armor partially deflects the onslaught of the puncture attack.
Droit fires a wooden arrow at you!
AS: +400 vs DS: +347 with AvD: +20 + d100 roll: +55 = +128
... and hits for 2 points of damage!
Poked in the tummy.
Hehehe.

** As Droit's wooden arrow hits you, it gives off a cold blast! **
... 5 points of damage!
Chilly blast to the chest causes heart to skip a beat.

Some old beat-up armor partially deflects the onslaught of the puncture attack.
Droit fires a wooden arrow at you!
AS: +525 vs DS: +301 with AvD: +20 + d100 roll: +31 = +275
... and hits for 10 points of damage!
Minor strike to the neck.
The guiding force leaves Droit.
The scintillating brown light surrounding the arrow fades some.
Lacking the force and angle to lodge in you, the wooden arrow simply falls.

Some old beat-up armor partially deflects the onslaught of the puncture attack.
Droit fires a wooden arrow at you!
AS: +555 vs DS: +279 with AvD: +20 + d100 roll: +48 = +344
... and hits for 12 points of damage!
Strike to right hand breaks a fingernail!
The guiding force leaves Droit.

** As you are hit, Droit's arrow flares with bits of broken rubble!
... 5 points of damage!
Blow to your back connects lightly.
The scintillating brown light surrounding the arrow fades some.
The wooden arrow sticks in your right hand!

Some old beat-up armor partially deflects the onslaught of the puncture attack.
Droit fires a wooden arrow at you!
AS: +480 vs DS: +279 with AvD: +20 + d100 roll: +67 = +288
... and hits for 12 points of damage!
Minor puncture to the chest.
The scintillating brown light surrounding the arrow fades some.
Glancing shot. The wooden arrow flips over, landing behind you.

Some old beat-up armor partially deflects the onslaught of the puncture attack.
Droit fires a wooden arrow at you!
AS: +555 vs DS: +185 with AvD: +20 + d100 roll: +62 = +452
... and hits for 19 points of damage!
Minor puncture to the chest.
The guiding force leaves Droit.
The scintillating brown light surrounding the arrow fades some.
Glancing shot. The wooden arrow flips over, landing behind you.

[Swami71]

Incredibly at rank 4? whats rank 5 then?

Good work guys!!

[Kitsun]

I recognize that plate!

[Franknozly]

The DF for plate for a longbow is what 0.175?
So that 275 end roll shot should've done 30.45 damage raw. Instead it did 10? Anyone else want to double check my calculations?
________
Vapor Tower (http://vaporizer.org)

[droit]

Well, its a little skewed because i'm sure durfin has a TON of redux.

[Danical]

Well, its a little skewed because i'm sure durfin has a TON of redux.

:yeahthat:

[Latrinsorm]

Partial resistance and redux make for a huge pain in the ass...

...but get some shots in vanilla armor and we'll get this stagecoach agoin'. :D

[Drunken Durfin]

Well, its a little skewed because i'm sure durfin has a TON of redux.

We could always put the plate on my empath with zero redux.

[Danical]

Huzzah! Let the crunching begin!

[mrjrd222]

We could always put the plate on my empath with zero redux.

If the resistance doesn't stop enchanting, I've got some basic imflass full plate I'd wear (Cleric) and get shot at if you'd add the resistance?

[Riltus]

Well, its a little skewed because i'm sure durfin has a TON of redux.

It's iffy with the redux but it looks like 40%. Level 2 (sturdy) is 20%.

Some double leather partially deflects the onslaught of the puncture attack.
AS: +181 vs DS: +147 with AvD: +20 + d100 roll: +97 = +151
... and hits for 13 points of damage!
Minor puncture to the left leg.

Theoretical raw damage: 51 * .200 (weapon DF) = 10
Crit: 5
Total theoretical: 15
Actual raw: 8
Actual total: 13

Raw damage was reduced from 10 to 8 or 20%.

When doing calculations with resistances the damage reduction truncates. E.g., 10% resistance and 9 raw damage will result in 9 damage (9 * .10 = .9 which truncates to 0). With 40% resistance the actual damage will be 6 (9 * .4 = 3.6 which truncates to 3).

It looks like each level will be 10%.

Mark

[droit]

Longbow DF vs plate is 0.175.

[Riltus]

I don't know how I missed this but resistance strength was given in the initial announcement.


The base strength of the damage resistance is equal to (Fitting Tier * 10), with common fittings having a value of 1 and masterwork fittings having a value of 5.

Tier 1 (common): 10% with armor point cost 20
Tier 2 (sturdy): 20% with armor point cost 50
Tier 3 (fine): 30% with armor point cost 90
Tier 4 (superb): 40% with armor point cost 140
Tier 5 (masterwork): 50% with armor point cost 200

Mark

[Swami71]

Any idea how long it lasts?

[droit]

The maximum is 90 activations, I believe. That's for a warrior 3x in armor.

[Swami71]

Support at no cost is looking good then

[GSIVMerchant21]

Guys, I did a spike thorn test in full plate. I'm guessing this character was 9+ levels ahead of me. This is with HCP full plate and moderate puncture resist. I don't think the resistence reduces the crit, rather the % of damage.

Dozens of long thorns suddenly grow out from the ground underneath your feet! Several of the thorns jab into you!
... hits for 12 points of damage!
A shiny suit of armor etched with an image of a halfling impaled on a stick partially deflects the onslaught of the puncture attack.
... 25 points of damage!
Well placed shot pierces knee, that hurt!
You are knocked to the ground!
You are stunned for 5 rounds!
... hits for 36 points of damage!
A shiny suit of armor etched with an image of a halfling impaled on a stick partially deflects the onslaught of the puncture attack.
... 25 points of damage!
Shot knocks your head back by pushing on the inside of the skull!

[TheLastShamurai]

The base strength of the damage resistance is equal to (Fitting Tier * 10), with common fittings having a value of 1 and masterwork fittings having a value of 5.

Doesn't say anything about the crit.

[thefarmer]

Guys, I did a spike thorn test in full plate. I'm guessing this character was 9+ levels ahead of me. This is with HCP full plate and moderate puncture resist. I don't think the resistence reduces the crit, rather the % of damage.

Dozens of long thorns suddenly grow out from the ground underneath your feet! Several of the thorns jab into you!
... hits for 12 points of damage!
A shiny suit of armor etched with an image of a halfling impaled on a stick partially deflects the onslaught of the puncture attack.
... 25 points of damage!
Well placed shot pierces knee, that hurt!
You are knocked to the ground!
You are stunned for 5 rounds!
... hits for 36 points of damage!
A shiny suit of armor etched with an image of a halfling impaled on a stick partially deflects the onslaught of the puncture attack.
... 25 points of damage!
Shot knocks your head back by pushing on the inside of the skull!


No offense, but for a guy obsessed with formulas.. your conclusions usually off.

[Danical]

I'm fairly certain resistances work on crit damage.

[Riltus]

I'm fairly certain resistances work on crit damage.

For AS/DS combat resolutions it won't reduce crit damage. It will reduce raw damage which will then have the potential to reduce the crit rank.

It is problematic to demonstrate whether or not there is any crit damage or crit rank reduction for CS based and other maneuver attacks.

Normally, the crit damage from these attacks will follow this pattern.

Rank 1: 5 damage
Rank 2: 10 damage
...
Rank 9: 45 damage

The damage is always divisible by 5, but the damage for any rank won't necessary be (crit rank * 5). It can be (crit rank * 5) +/- 5 or even greater.

I.e., I have an unbalance eye crit (rank 7) with three different damages (30, 35 and 40). It is the same message and the same rank 2 injury but different crit damage values.


Dozens of long thorns suddenly grow out from the ground underneath your feet! Several of the thorns jab into you!
... hits for 12 points of damage!
A shiny suit of armor etched with an image of a halfling impaled on a stick partially deflects the onslaught of the puncture attack.
... 25 points of damage!
Well placed shot pierces knee, that hurt!
You are knocked to the ground!
You are stunned for 5 rounds!
... hits for 36 points of damage!
A shiny suit of armor etched with an image of a halfling impaled on a stick partially deflects the onslaught of the puncture attack.
... 25 points of damage!
Shot knocks your head back by pushing on the inside of the skull!

There are two rank 5 puncture crits here. Both would be 20 damage with a weapon based attack. But 25 damage (rank 5 * 5) is a normal result for this form of attack. But these attacks aren't limited to 25 damage. There just isn't any way to tell if the crit rank or the crit damage was reduced by the resistance even though the message triggered.

Maybe Coase would be willing to volunteer the info on the officials.

Mark

[Danical]

I've seen logs when Khistian had his armor with 30% puncture rez and the crits from charge were tame compared with charges with similar endrolls sans rez; of course, charge can vary wildly.

I'd be willing to bet Coase would offer the info.

I'd like to know the following:

Does resistance affect crit rank/damage and if so, how exactly? Would 30% rez be roughly equal to Heavy Crit Padding in terms of reducing crit rank/damage?

[droit]

For AS/DS combat resolutions it won't reduce crit damage. It will reduce raw damage which will then have the potential to reduce the crit rank.

It is problematic to demonstrate whether or not there is any crit damage or crit rank reduction for CS based and other maneuver attacks.


Last night Mikoguchi, Raindove and I did some resistance testing. Using rank 2 puncture resistance on a redux-free character's armor w/o padding, I calculated an almost exactly 20% reduction of raw damage. My question is, will resistance reduce the phantom damage of crit weighting too? I'm sure it's a very difficult, if not impossible, thing to test, but I'd like to hear your guesses.

[GSIVMerchant21]

I would also like to know if it's worth it to keep HCP armor on and moderate resist. Should I just switch to no padding on plate with incredible resistence? Which is better mark?

[Riltus]

Last night Mikoguchi, Raindove and I did some resistance testing. Using rank 2 puncture resistance on a redux-free character's armor w/o padding, I calculated an almost exactly 20% reduction of raw damage. My question is, will resistance reduce the phantom damage of crit weighting too? I'm sure it's a very difficult, if not impossible, thing to test, but I'd like to hear your guesses.

Rank 2 is exactly 20% but as I stated in a previous post the reduction truncates. With 19 damage the reduction would be trunc(19 * .2) = 3.8 which truncates to 3 and doesn't round up to 4.

Will resistance reduce phantom crit damage? No

Mark

[Tea & Strumpets]

I would also like to know if it's worth it to keep HCP armor on and moderate resist. Should I just switch to no padding on plate with incredible resistence? Which is better mark?

I'm not Mark, but I'd rather have heavy crit padding.

[Danical]

I just thought I'd throw this in the mix too.

I have something like 70% rez from fire/ice/lightning and I almost always get a rank 1 or 2 from DC shots but the impact really fucks my day up (with the vulnerability on top).

Again, I'm fairly certain rez works on maneuvers/spells.

[Danical]

For AS/DS combat resolutions it won't reduce crit damage. It will reduce raw damage which will then have the potential to reduce the crit rank.

:confused: Sure about that?

Wearing Aug Chain.


Rimalon gestures at you.
A swirling sonic barrier partially deflects the onslaught of the shocking attack.
Rimalon hurls a powerful lightning bolt at you!
AS: +490 vs DS: +489 with AvD: +40 + d100 roll: +77 = +118
... and hits for 5 points of damage!
Light shock to neck. That stings!

Rimalon gestures at you.
A swirling sonic barrier partially deflects the onslaught of the shocking attack.
Rimalon hurls a powerful lightning bolt at you!
AS: +535 vs DS: +288 with AvD: +40 + d100 roll: +90 = +377
... and hits for 45 points of damage!
Heavy spark to back. Bet that hurts.
You are stunned for 1 rounds!

[droit]

But AS/DS rolls are calculated very differently from spells that do only crit damage. I ran into this difficulty when I was testing spike thorn. Spike, for instance, rolls a base crit rank for the entire cast and each crit cycle is within +/-1 of that base crit rank. How exactly does resistance (or padding) affect the base crit rank roll?

[Danical]

I'm not really willing to get DC'd but I can assure you, having resistance helps a great deal for the crits.

[Riltus]

:confused: Sure about that?

Wearing Aug Chain.


Rimalon gestures at you.
A swirling sonic barrier partially deflects the onslaught of the shocking attack.
Rimalon hurls a powerful lightning bolt at you!
AS: +490 vs DS: +489 with AvD: +40 + d100 roll: +77 = +118
... and hits for 5 points of damage!
Light shock to neck. That stings!

Rimalon gestures at you.
A swirling sonic barrier partially deflects the onslaught of the shocking attack.
Rimalon hurls a powerful lightning bolt at you!
AS: +535 vs DS: +288 with AvD: +40 + d100 roll: +90 = +377
... and hits for 45 points of damage!
Heavy spark to back. Bet that hurts.
You are stunned for 1 rounds!

Yes, I'm sure about that.

The resistance acts to reduce the raw damage by R% BEFORE the crit is calculated

1. (endroll - 100) * damage factor = raw damage
2. Raw damage - (raw damage * resistance%) = reduced raw damage.
3. Reduced raw damage/armor crit divisor = max crit rank
4. Crit randomizes normally.
5. Total damage: reduced raw damage + crit damage

If redux is involved, it is applied between steps 2 and 3 above.

Here's a simplified example from a post in another thread. This is with 40% crush resistance.


A tempered suit of imflass full-plate partially deflects the onslaught of the crushing attack.
Someguy swings a jade-handled imflass war mattock at you!
AS: +385 vs DS: +185 with AvD: +35 + d100 roll: +52 = +287
... and hits for 41 points of damage!
Grazing blow to your stomach.

Weapon DF: .275
endroll - 100: 187
raw damage: 51 (187 * .275)normal rounding
reduced damage: 51 - (51 * .4) = 31 [40% resistance]
Max crit rank: 2 (31/11) plate crit divisor
actual crit damage: 10 (rank 2 crush)
Total damage: 41 (31 reduced raw damage + 10 crit damage)

The resistance reduced the raw damage from 51 to 31. You now use 31 as the basis for determining the max crit rank. The crit rank is indirectly reduced because the raw damage was reduced.

Now for your hit:


Rimalon hurls a powerful lightning bolt at you!
AS: +535 vs DS: +288 with AvD: +40 + d100 roll: +90 = +377
... and hits for 45 points of damage!
Heavy spark to back. Bet that hurts.

DF: .415
Raw damage: 115 (277 * .415)
Reduced damage w/70% resistance: 115 - (115 * .7) = 35
Max crit rank: 35/9 = 3 [chain crit divisor]
Actual crit after randomization: rank 2 w/10 damage
Total damage: 35 reduced raw + 10 crit = 45

With CS and maneuver attacks resistance may act more like crit padding than damage padding, but without the numbers it's hard to tell.

But, I do agree with you that with non-AS/DS based attacks the crit rank is being reduced. Exactly how those mechanics work is not obvious and not easily quantifiable.

Mark

[Danical]

Weapon DF: .415
Modified endroll: 18
Raw Damage: round(18 * .415) = 7
Reduced Damage: 7 - trunc(7 * .7) = 3
Max Crit Rank: 0
Actual Crit Rank After Randomization: 1 (impossible)
Total Damage: 3 Raw + 2 Crit = 5

Why am I getting a rank 1 crit then?

[Latrinsorm]

What if it counts like crit padding and can't reduce below a rank 1 if a rank 1 has been achieved? That would be shitty and make no sense, that's what, but what other explanation is there?

[Danical]

Wouldn't I have seen 9 damage then?

[Latrinsorm]

I reckon not; the way I have it figured it would reduce raw damage to whatever the same way crit padding reduces phantomly, except raw damage is real so it still matters if you can bump it below the CR1 threshold. Can you get a bunch of little hits with a Godfearing weapon?

[thefarmer]

I posted this on the officials, but since the conversations really here, here you go.

From Jinsem's testing (his, now mine) of resistance halfplate.

Question: Does the 10% damage reduction factor in AFTER padding or before? Meaning does the padding go into effect to lower crit/damage endroll, THEN the 10% reduction further lowers the damage?

Answer: - The 10% is done after all other factors are done. Porcell and I tested the armor extensively, and we were able to figure it out. We were then confirmed by a GM watching us doing the testing we were as accurate as we were going to get.

Jinsem

[Danical]

Rimalon hurls a powerful lightning bolt at you!
AS: +545 vs DS: +444 with AvD: +40 + d100 roll: +20 = +161
... and hits for 13 points of damage!
Light shock to abdomen. That stings!

Rimalon hurls a powerful lightning bolt at you!
AS: +545 vs DS: +489 with AvD: +40 + d100 roll: +73 = +169
... and hits for 14 points of damage!
Light shock to left leg. That stings!

EDIT: These seems to check out fine.

[Danical]

Rimalon gestures at you.
A swirling sonic barrier partially deflects the onslaught of the shocking attack.
Rimalon hurls a powerful lightning bolt at you!
AS: +470 vs DS: +470 with AvD: +40 + d100 roll: +98 = +138
... and hits for 6 points of damage!
Light shock to right eye. Bet that stung.

Rimalon gestures at you.
A swirling sonic barrier partially deflects the onslaught of the shocking attack.
Rimalon hurls a powerful lightning bolt at you!
AS: +470 vs DS: +454 with AvD: +40 + d100 roll: +69 = +125
... and hits for 8 points of damage!
Light shock to abdomen. That stings!

Rimalon gestures at you.
A swirling sonic barrier partially deflects the onslaught of the shocking attack.
Rimalon hurls a powerful lightning bolt at you!
AS: +470 vs DS: +454 with AvD: +40 + d100 roll: +92 = +148
... and hits for 8 points of damage!
Light shock to neck. That stings!

[Danical]

Wow, you can't reduce it so it wouldn't be a rank 1.

That's fucking retarded.

[BigWorm]

Wow, you can't reduce it so it wouldn't be a rank 1.

That's fucking retarded.

Yeah its kind of lame but most of us are used to it from redux. Not that it really matters with sigil of determination.

[Fallen]

Yeah its kind of lame but most of us are used to it from redux. Not that it really matters with sigil of determination.

It is also possibly a good combo with that new armor thingie that prevents wound stacking. Too bad it maxes out at like a 35% chance.

[BriarFox]

Wow, you can't reduce it so it wouldn't be a rank 1.

That's fucking retarded.

Yeah, it's the same thing with ranger resistance. Even with Regyy's 95%, you'll still get a minor every time from a 1 damage hit. Really annoying.

[Latrinsorm]

Yeah its kind of lame but most of us are used to it from redux. Not that it really matters with sigil of determination.Redux is the one reduction mechanic (apparently) that actually does reduce shoulda-beens to weren'ts. Ionno what determination is/does, but I thought I'd clarify that.

[Fallen]

Sigil of determination allows you to carry on with various mechanical activities (casting, lockpicking, etc) without mechanical penalties or outright negations on your actions due to wounds. Doesn't work for rank 3's, though. GoS goodness.

[droit]

I really wish I had determination when I was hunting fire mages.