Damage Type?

[Swami71]

Anyone all knowing on damage types? How much does it matter or what one is the best? Crushing, Slashing, Piercing, Puncture. I know Kiramon are immune to Puncture. Any other critters of note?

[Khariz]

The scope of your question is unmanageable. You have like 5 topics. I'll help you understand why:

What damage type is best depends on body locations and to some degree armor.

For example, if you are aiming attacks at heads/necks, you want crush damage to reach the lowest critical threshold.

Eyeballs? Pierce

Legs? Slash

It really just depends on what you are trying to do. If you are just open swinging and will randomly hit everywhere, it doesn't really matter, but I still prefer crush, as there is very little immunity to crush, and if you hit heads/necks, you are more likely to cause deaths.

A table of which critters are immune to what is another topic, and one that I don't really care about. Puncture bad.

[Swami71]

Thanks Khariz! For it being a broad question you answered it well. I've played a Sorcerer for so long and starting to be interested in melee so I've had all kinds of n00b questions.

[Kitsun]

Pfft. Puncture to eyeballs = Good. Which is one of the reasons why archery is awesome. Don't require obscene amounts of crit weighting to make something die.

This lack of understanding is what made most of the mechanical flaring weapons suck. They should've mostly been daggers with spikes for eye aiming but the majority of people went with shitty ass blades on OHEs.

[Mtenda]

rank 4 crit to eye = death with puncture

rank 5 crit to head or neck = death with crush

slash = suck

2 questions....

1. Is there an up to date crit table in circulation?

2. Isn't there an old built in mechanic where slash and puncture types have something like a 5-10 percent failure rate at achieving a death crit even when they hit the required crit threshold on a body location thus making crush even that more superior. I.E. rank 9 puncture wound to eye or rank 9 slash to neck does not always kill? Or am I just making shit up?

[Fallen]

The problem is even a rank 9 wound can be randomized down to a 5, so you need to achieve a rank 4 death crit to ensure a kill every time. I think the only way to do that is with puncture to the eye.

[Fallen]

Looks like I was a bit off:

Article "Critical randomization" [AID #851]
Possible crit ranks with randomization:
Rank 0 - will always be 0
Rank 1 - will always be 1
Rank 2 - will always be 1 or 2
Rank 3 - will always be 2 or 3
Rank 4 - will always be 2, 3 or 4
Rank 5 - will always be 3, 4 or 5
Rank 6 - will always be 3, 4, 5 or 6
Rank 7 - will always be 4, 5, 6 or 7
Rank 8 - will always be 4, 5, 6, 7, or 8
Rank 9 - will always be 5, 6, 7, 8 or 9
-Riltus

[Fallen]

So using a maul can result in death every time if you can achieve a rank 9 on every swing to the head. You can get as low as a rank 7 and STILL get a crit kill with pierce to the eye. Nice.

[Mtenda]

The problem is even a rank 9 wound can be randomized down to a 5, so you need to achieve a rank 4 death crit to ensure a kill every time. I think the only way to do that is with puncture to the eye.

Or crush to the head or neck. My second question above is assuming that mechanic is thrown in after the crit randomization.

[Mtenda]

Or crush to the head or neck. My second question above is assuming that mechanic is thrown in after the crit randomization.

Nevermind. I think I am just misinterpreting the crit randomization that pertains to slashing heads and necks since slash requires a rank 6 for a kill and rank 9 randomizes down to 5....there is a 20 percent failure of death assuming you get rank 9 every time. Unless...anyone notice random failures to puncturing eyes that shouldn't be there?

[Fallen]

2. Isn't there an old built in mechanic where slash and puncture types have something like a 5-10 percent failure rate at achieving a death crit even when they hit the required crit threshold on a body location thus making crush even that more superior. I.E. rank 9 puncture wound to eye or rank 9 slash to neck does not always kill? Or am I just making shit up?

This is the first I have ever heard of that.

[droit]

Punctures to the eye are the clear winner in theory, since you only need to hit a rank 7 to ensure 100% lethality. However, puncturing weapons have been limited in several ways. First of all, there are very few weapons that do only puncture damage: sais, javelins, bows and crossbows. Sais are quick, but have a really really low DF and AvD; javelins actually have a decent DF and AvD, but hurling doesn't get crit weighting modifiers and using it to melee ambush from hiding would require polearm skill (but those who use polearms normally are kept from using javelins because thrown training is required for parry defense); and ranged weapons don't get the crit weighting modifiers from ambushing that melee weapons do. Every other weapon has another damage type associated with it. All in all, they've pretty much balanced the edge off of puncture damage (no pun intended).

[droit]

Hm..that actually make me want to see a polearm/thrown ambusher build. Javelins have twice the DF of daggers vs plate...

[Celephais]

there is a 20 percent failure of death assuming you get rank 9 every time.
Also assuming that the crit randomization is evenly weighted.

[Fallen]

Punctures to the eye are the clear winner in theory, since you only need to hit a rank 7 to ensure 100% lethality. However, puncturing weapons have been limited in several ways. First of all, there are very few weapons that do only puncture damage: sais, javelins, bows and crossbows. Sais are quick, but have a really really low DF and AvD; javelins actually have a decent DF and AvD, but hurling doesn't get crit weighting modifiers and using it to melee ambush from hiding would require polearm skill (but those who use polearms normally are kept from using javelins because thrown training is required for parry defense); and ranged weapons don't get the crit weighting modifiers from ambushing that melee weapons do. Every other weapon has another damage type associated with it. All in all, they've pretty much balanced the edge off of puncture damage (no pun intended).

You mean..there is no weighting unless you're in GoS hunting Grimswarm.

[droit]

Well yes, but...the heavy crit weighting from major bane serves only to counteract the insane crit padding on Grimswarm.

[waywardgs]

Puncture bad.

Puncture GOOOOD. Slash BAAAAD.

(insert youtube vid of phil hartman as frankenstein here.. stupid copyright restrictions...)

[Riltus]

Also assuming that the crit randomization is evenly weighted.

The distribution is even across all possible crit ranks regardless of the amount of damage.


2. Isn't there an old built in mechanic where slash and puncture types have something like a 5-10 percent failure rate at achieving a death crit even when they hit the required crit threshold on a body location thus making crush even that more superior. I.E. rank 9 puncture wound to eye or rank 9 slash to neck does not always kill? Or am I just making shit up?

I think this was probably referring to multiple damage type weapons. A weapon with 50/50 slash/puncture damage when striking an eye with at least rank 9 damage would only result in instant death 90% of the time, thus a 10% failure. 10% of the time the crit would randomized to a rank 5 slash and no instakill, or something along those lines. I'm not even certain if a rank 6 slash eye crit is fatal. I can't recall off the top of my head.

Mark

[droit]

Actually, if you can get a rank 9 crit to the eye with a slash/puncture weapon, it's a guaranteed kill. Slash to the eye is fatal at rank 5. This is why I liked daggers so much when I was OHE.

For the record, dagger crits are 60% puncture.

[Mtenda]

Actually, if you can get a rank 9 crit to the eye with a slash/puncture weapon, it's a guaranteed kill. Slash to the eye is fatal at rank 5. This is why I liked daggers so much when I was OHE.

For the record, dagger crits are 60% puncture.

4 realz!? I'm going to hafta reconsider the 100 air lore ranks for dual hasted 1 second ambushing daggers build.

How did you do with a dagger against the armors in Nelemar Droit?

[DoctorUnne]

Why is slash so bad? Just aim for the neck. I'm pretty sure that's instant death on a rank 5 (Fast slash to the kobold's neck exposes its windpipe. Quick anatomy lesson, anyone?). And since crush is also instant death on a rank 5 to the neck, you have the same benefits from ambushing the neck with say a handaxe as you do a crush only weapon.

[droit]

Quite well. Nelemar was a snap with a dagger, not counting the non-corporeal. At first I had a little trouble with the combatants (full plate), but that was when I was only 1x ambush. I was well on my way to 2x when I fixskilled. The one problem with ambushing with daggers is reaching the first crit rank threshold. Because of their low DFs, you need a 240 endroll vs full plate or a 170 endroll vs hauberk or brig to do one crit rank worth of raw damage and thus activate your ambush crit weighting. Combine this with the fact that daggers have a -18 AvD vs full plate and, yeah... (I was using a 7x perfect dagger).

However, the amount of weighting you can get from hidden ambushing is fairly ridiculous. I did some testing at 1x ambush and found that I was getting up to 48 or 50 points of crit weighting on combatants. I was going to do more testing at 1.5x and 2x, but my spell build was too tempting. I definitely miss my ambush build though, and I may return to it once I have enough TPs.

[droit]

You need a rank 6 to kill with a slash to the head or neck.

[Mtenda]

Why is slash so bad? Just aim for the neck. I'm pretty sure that's instant death on a rank 5 (Fast slash to the kobold's neck exposes its windpipe. Quick anatomy lesson, anyone?). And since crush is also instant death on a rank 5 to the neck, you have the same benefits from ambushing the neck with say a handaxe as you do a crush only weapon.

For other tactical reasons it's better to aim for the head first. If you don't kill it it will greatly limit what the critter can do magically and otherwise where a similar blow to the neck will not. Also having multiple options is good. There is some stupid mechanic where you can't hit the same place again once that location has received X amount of damage.

The mace is the most efficient one handed weapon in the game. Nobody wants to hear it though.

[Mtenda]

Quite well. Nelemar was a snap with a dagger, not counting the non-corporeal. At first I had a little trouble with the combatants (full plate), but that was when I was only 1x ambush. I was well on my way to 2x when I fixskilled. The one problem with ambushing with daggers is reaching the first crit rank threshold. Because of their low DFs, you need a 240 endroll vs full plate or a 170 endroll vs hauberk or brig to do one crit rank worth of raw damage and thus activate your ambush crit weighting. Combine this with the fact that daggers have a -18 AvD vs full plate and, yeah... (I was using a 7x perfect dagger).

However, the amount of weighting you can get from hidden ambushing is fairly ridiculous. I did some testing at 1x ambush and found that I was getting up to 48 or 50 points of crit weighting on combatants. I was going to do more testing at 1.5x and 2x, but my spell build was too tempting. I definitely miss my ambush build though, and I may return to it once I have enough TPs.

It's too bad that crit weighting is factored in before randomization. Wonder what kind of AS you would need in order to consistently get those endrolls.

[droit]

I think my AS was about 525. Getting past the 240 threshold was pretty easy on combatants, but I'd still fall short from time to time when hunting Grimswarm.

[Mtenda]

I think my AS was about 525. Getting past the 240 threshold was pretty easy on combatants, but I'd still fall short from time to time when hunting Grimswarm.

Having to make the sacrifices to get 100 air lore ranks I'd probably only be able to get my rogue's AS to 555 or so not counting coup de grace. Thinking about trying it just to spite archery.

[droit]

That should be plenty if you're getting a decent DS pushdown.

[DoctorUnne]

However, the amount of weighting you can get from hidden ambushing is fairly ridiculous. I did some testing at 1x ambush and found that I was getting up to 48 or 50 points of crit weighting on combatants. I was going to do more testing at 1.5x and 2x, but my spell build was too tempting. I definitely miss my ambush build though, and I may return to it once I have enough TPs.

I did the math on a shot I posted in the Great Ambushes topic in the Rogue folder on the officials. With just 90 ranks of ambush I was getting claid or fantastical (40 points) weighting just from ambushing.

You leap from hiding to attack!
You swing a jet black imflass axe at a seeker!
AS: +312 vs DS: +268 with AvD: +30 + d100 roll: +40 = +114
... and hit for 26 points of damage!
You hear several snaps as the seeker's neck is broken in several places.
The seeker mutters, "...the Eye, the Eye..." and lies still.
The seeker no longer bristles with energy.
A seeker glances around, looking a bit less confident.
The brilliant luminescence fades from around a seeker.
A seeker becomes solid again.
The bright luminescence fades from around a seeker.
The shimmering multicolored sphere fades from around a seeker.

114 endroll x .420 handaxe vs. robes DF = 6 raw damage

My crit was a rank 6 neck crit. Since robes have a crit divisor of 5, that means for crit purposes I did a minimum of 30 damage. So let's assume I barely got that crit and did 30 damage for purposes of the crit calculation.

Based on the info from krakiipedia, every 4 DEX bonus adds 1 phantom damage. My DEX bonus is 16, so that's 6 raw damage + 4 phantom damage from my DEX. To get to 30 total therefore that means ambush provided 20 phantom damage. Also from krakiipedia phantom damage added is equal to half the weighting value, so the weighting value equivalent of this is 20 * 2 or 40 points of weighting (claid).

[droit]

Also from krakiipedia phantom damage added is equal to half the weighting value, so the weighting value equivalent of this is 20 * 2 or 40 points of weighting (claid).

This part isn't correct. Crit weighting is randomized. The numbers we use for crit weighting (i.e. 40 points for a claid) indicate the upper limit of the range; the lower limit is somewhat harder to quantify, but it is some number greater than 1. Any given hit with a claid, for example, will have between 8 and 40 points of phantom damage added to it, according to Khariz' research. The line you read in the KP article ("For example, a heavily crit weighted weapon (which has a numerical value of 9 to 11, but for these purposes we'll say 10) does five extra phantom damage to an attack.") was just choosing a roughly average weighting roll from the HCW range.

What you calculated from your hit is a potential upper limit to your crit weighting. What you'll have to do is calculate the weighting for a lot of hits to get a rough estimate of your highest weighting.

[Riltus]

This part isn't correct. Crit weighting is randomized. The numbers we use for crit weighting (i.e. 40 points for a claid) indicate the upper limit of the range; the lower limit is somewhat harder to quantify, but it is some number greater than 1. Any given hit with a claid, for example, will have between 8 and 40 points of phantom damage added to it, according to Khariz' research. The line you read in the KP article ("For example, a heavily crit weighted weapon (which has a numerical value of 9 to 11, but for these purposes we'll say 10) does five extra phantom damage to an attack.") was just choosing a roughly average weighting roll from the HCW range.

What you calculated from your hit is a potential upper limit to your crit weighting. What you'll have to do is calculate the weighting for a lot of hits to get a rough estimate of your highest weighting.

I am 99.9% certain that crit weighting isn't randomized. Crit padding is but not weighting.

Per your request - I'm working on impact crits now...should be finished in a few days, maybe.

Mark

[Latrinsorm]

Is there an up to date crit table in circulation?Yes, check krakiipedia or the qrs (quick resource script). (I'll email you an xls version if it's not available.)
There is some stupid mechanic where you can't hit the same place again once that location has received X amount of damage.It's rank 3 injuries that make re-aiming impossible. This is roughly correlated with but not the same as X damage.
The mace is the most efficient one handed weapon in the game.Base 4 weapons generally are terrible. Do you mean the cudgel?

[droit]

I am 99.9% certain that crit weighting isn't randomized. Crit padding is but not weighting.

Per your request - I'm working on impact crits now...should be finished in a few days, maybe.

Mark

Think you could explain why you don't think it is?

Also, awesome news about the impact table! I wasn't sure you saw that request.

[Riltus]

Think you could explain why you don't think it is?

Also, awesome news about the impact table! I wasn't sure you saw that request.

I tried to find evidence of it but was unable to. All the hits conformed to full weighting. It's a bit tricky with crit randomization but I was never able to find a result that proved less than full crit weighting.

I can't say conclusively that it doesn't randomize within a certain range but everything points to a constant value.


Mark

[Khariz]

I don't believe there is any question that crit weighting is randomized. I'd call it a "given" at this point. I can probably find four shots with a claidhmore, the same endroll, with multiple crit ranks (same damage type) for demonstrative purposes. But why do you say it is NOT, Mark?

Are you saying that only the Crit RESULT of the combat formula is susceptible to randomization? That with an an appropriately crit weighted weapon you will ALWAYS achieve a rank 9 crit rank, but that it can be randomized down to say 5, with no chance whatsoever of more weighting having any impact on the combat formula?

Because if you can prove that, it may seriously change the landscape and value of the high end exceptionally+ weighted weapons market. Why have as much weighting as a claid on an item if it effectively does nothing most of the time?

Curious.

Edit: I'm willing to admit that I've always made an inherent assumption that effectively has had me thinking "backwards" all these years.

Edit2: I just realized that I always assumed that the crit RANK held still after the application of the crit weighting, and that the "flaw" in the final outcome was the randomization of the weighting itself, and not of the crit itself. Wow.

[Riltus]

I don't believe there is any question that crit weighting is randomized. I'd call it a "given" at this point. I can probably find four shots with a claidhmore, the same endroll, with multiple crit ranks (same damage type) for demonstrative purposes. But why do you say it is NOT, Mark?

Are you saying that only the Crit RESULT of the combat formula is susceptible to randomization? That with an an appropriately crit weighted weapon you will ALWAYS achieve a rank 9 crit rank, but that it can be randomized down to say 5, with no chance whatsoever of more weighting having any impact on the combat formula?

Because if you can prove that, it may seriously change the landscape and value of the high end exceptionally+ weighted weapons market. Why have as much weighting as a claid on an item if it effectively does nothing most of the time?

Curious.

Edit: I'm willing to admit that I've always made an inherent assumption that effectively has had me thinking "backwards" all these years.

Edit2: I just realized that I always assumed that the crit RANK held still after the application of the crit weighting, and that the "flaw" in the final outcome was the randomization of the weighting itself, and not of the crit itself. Wow.

That is precisely what I am saying. All the crit weighting in the world cannot guarantee that the final crit rank will be greater than 5. The weighting is added before randomization. Therefore, when damage is equal to or above the rank 9 threshold, it (the weighting) has no impact on the final outcome.

I tried to find evidence that this was not the case but was unable to. I also was unable to find any randomization in the weighting itself. As I stated before, it doesn't mean that it isn't there... I just couldn't find the evidence.

Mark

[Izzy]

First of all, there are very few weapons that do only puncture damage: sais, javelins, bows and crossbows.
Arrows (bows) do slash damage too.

[Mtenda]

Yes, check krakiipedia or the qrs (quick resource script). (I'll email you an xls version if it's not available.)

Can't find it on Krakiipedia. Might need you to send that to me.


It's rank 3 injuries that make re-aiming impossible. This is roughly correlated with but not the same as X damage.

Word.


Base 4 weapons generally are terrible. Do you mean the cudgel?

I definitely mean the mace. Cudgel is a mechanically pointless weapon base.

[Mtenda]

Arrows (bows) do slash damage too.

That's only in melee though right?

[droit]

Arrows (bows) do slash damage too.

Nope. Unless you're talking about arrows being used as daggers.

[DoctorUnne]

That is precisely what I am saying. All the crit weighting in the world cannot guarantee that the final crit rank will be greater than 5. The weighting is added before randomization. Therefore, when damage is equal to or above the rank 9 threshold, it (the weighting) has no impact on the final outcome.

I tried to find evidence that this was not the case but was unable to. I also was unable to find any randomization in the weighting itself. As I stated before, it doesn't mean that it isn't there... I just couldn't find the evidence.

Mark

Yeah that's why you don't really need a crit-weighted weapon as an ambusher. It helps, especially against critters in plate or with a low DF weapon, but at some point you have so much ambush training that you get to a max crit rank of 9 very easily, and beyond that point the additional weighting on the weapon does nothing. I mean, if I get at least 20 phantom damage with 90 ranks of ambush, imagine how much you would get with 202 ranks? If it's linear, that's 45 phantom damage, which brings you to a max rank 9 crit with 5 raw damage against robes, 9 against leather, 18 against scale, 36 against chain and 54 against plate. And that's with no DEX bonus. If your DEX bonus is 32, subtract 8 from those numbers. That's a 217 endroll for a handaxe against chain or a 319 endroll for a handaxe against plate. If you're hitting those threshholds, which seem pretty reasonable, crit weighting does nothing for you.

So Mark, was the part from my post about the 50% of the weighting points being added as phantom damage for the crit calc accurate? Or is it 100%, and I only was seeing 20 points of weighting?

[droit]

Even if 100% of the crit weighting applies every time, your 20 points of weighting from one hit is still potentially lower than your maximum weighting thanks to the final crit randomization. You might actually have 35+ crit weighting, but the rank 9 got randomized down to a rank 6 for the hit you posted. My earlier advice stands, in that you have to keep testing until you can be reasonably certain that you won't see anything higher.

[Danical]

That is precisely what I am saying. All the crit weighting in the world cannot guarantee that the final crit rank will be greater than 5. The weighting is added before randomization. Therefore, when damage is equal to or above the rank 9 threshold, it (the weighting) has no impact on the final outcome.

I tried to find evidence that this was not the case but was unable to. I also was unable to find any randomization in the weighting itself. As I stated before, it doesn't mean that it isn't there... I just couldn't find the evidence.

Mark

I noted the same when I was doing testing with my warrior using a claid.

I used the following script:

Christ I can't find it, the hell with it!

http://homerderby.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/uecker.jpg

It's not hard to recreate.

I never saw my claid dip below the full weighting unless the creature (trolls most notably) had crit padding.

[DoctorUnne]

Even if 100% of the crit weighting applies every time, your 20 points of weighting from one hit is still potentially lower than your maximum weighting thanks to the final crit randomization. You might actually have 35+ crit weighting, but the rank 9 got randomized down to a rank 6 for the hit you posted. My earlier advice stands, in that you have to keep testing until you can be reasonably certain that you won't see anything higher.

Oh I totally agree with that. That's why I said I had a MINIMUM of 20 phantom damage, but yeah it could actually be more. In my math I used the lowest possible threshhold for a rank 6 crit (30 damage) and assumed I hit my max possible crit rank. If either of those isn't true, then I have even more than 20 phantom damage, and the illustration is even stronger. I was trying in my post on the officials to make the point that I was getting at least claid weighting with those 90 ranks of ambush, since 20 phantom damage equals 40 points of weighting according to the krakiipedia statement "The amount of phantom damage added is half the weighting value of the weapon." I think that's a pretty powerful statement on ambushing and evidence why you don't need a crit-weighted weapon if you ambush, especially with a hard-hitting weapon.

But to your point I'll try and do the math on a bunch of hits and see if I can find any that show evidence of something higher.

[Fallen]

Sounds like a 10x Pierce mechanical flaring dagger is the best a rogue could hope for if he is ambushing.

[Mtenda]

Sounds like a 10x Pierce mechanical flaring dagger is the best a rogue could hope for if he is ambushing.

Depends on your endrolls. You could make the same case for a similar blackjack which would be easier to hit its target because you'd be aiming for heads instead of eyes. In terms of one attack kills, dual maces will kill more efficiently than anything else. Also, they give you the option to actually bleed something to death if you need to. Of course you have to consider round time though. But hasted it's 3 seconds for two maces vs. 2 seconds for dual dagger or blackjacks. I bet maces still win in the long run. It's also worth noting that with 100 ranks of air lore (what rogue can afford that) you can reduce the hasted ambush round time of daggers or blackjacks to 1 second.

[Danical]

I wouldn't do two maces - if you get a rank 3 wound on the head every single aimed attack to the head defaults to the chest.

It's dumb as hell, but that's the way it is.

[Mtenda]

I wouldn't do two maces - if you get a rank 3 wound on the head every single aimed attack to the head defaults to the chest.

It's dumb as hell, but that's the way it is.

I've tested just about every option of ambushing with some pretty large sample sizes and I fail to see how it's "dumb as hell". Could you elaborate? Because the rank 3 thing is not much of an issue. Even if you somehow managed to have your crit randomized down to below a 5 for both shots on the head. You still have the neck to crush.

[Danical]

I've tested just about every option of ambushing with some pretty large sample sizes and I fail to see how it's "dumb as hell". Could you elaborate? Because the rank 3 thing is not much of an issue. Even if you somehow managed to have your crit randomized down to below a 5 for both shots on the head. You still have the neck to crush.

Yes, you can still hit the neck but you've gained no speed/efficiency over a mace/shield except a loss of DS.

Also, what I'm referring to as "dumb as hell" is the fact that aimed shots default to the chest after a rank 3 wound; that's retarded. If I have two maces I plan on bashing someone's skull in despite how wounded they are. It just doesn't make sense and I've tried to get TPTB to change it but it won't happen anytime soon, if ever.

Same goes for arrows to the eye, etc.

[Mtenda]

Yes, you can still hit the neck but you've gained no speed/efficiency over a mace/shield except a loss of DS.

Also, what I'm referring to as "dumb as hell" is the fact that aimed shots default to the chest after a rank 3 wound; that's retarded. If I have two maces I plan on bashing someone's skull in despite how wounded they are. It just doesn't make sense and I've tried to get TPTB to change it but it won't happen anytime soon, if ever.

Same goes for arrows to the eye, etc.

That is a very frustrating mechanic. But two maces still rock for a rogue because you are almost always getting a rank 9 (rank 5 minimum) on whatever you hit. I think of the second swing more as a backup in case I miss the head altogether. For someone ambushing from the open however....yikes. I agree with you that the gains over a mace/shield are minimal but I guess I just don't care that much about defense.

[Mtenda]

Where do shots default to if you get rank 3 on the eyes?

[DoctorUnne]

I wouldn't do two maces - if you get a rank 3 wound on the head every single aimed attack to the head defaults to the chest.

Is this just a property of the head or is it the same for any body part? Because I know when I ambush a leg with TWC and my first shot severs the leg my second shot is random, not always to the chest. But then again that could be a result of destroying the leg and not just getting a rank 3 wound. Is there a leg crit that gives a rank 3 wound that doesn't sever the leg?

[Mtenda]

Is this just a property of the head or is it the same for any body part? Because I know when I ambush a leg with TWC and my first shot severs the leg my second shot is random, not always to the chest. But then again that could be a result of destroying the leg and not just getting a rank 3 wound. Is there a leg crit that gives a rank 3 wound that doesn't sever the leg?

If you are ambushing the left leg it should go to the right leg next. Of course it probably doesen't because that would make too much sense.

[Danical]

Where do shots default to if you get rank 3 on the eyes?

The chest, always the chest and it happens with every body part.

[Mtenda]

The chest, always the chest and it happens with every body part.

Damn chests are always getting in the way.

http://www.joblo.com/images_arrownews/GIANT_boobs.jpg

[Latrinsorm]

TWC is different. If you cut off a leg, the next target within the TWC swing, if there is one, will always be the opposite hand (or some shit). It doesn't go to chest within the TWC strike unless the body part is one that remains. I don't remember if corasine fap/fap flares or bonding have the same feature. I give it a solid could be possible maybe.

[DoctorUnne]

TWC is different. If you cut off a leg, the next target within the TWC swing, if there is one, will always be the opposite hand (or some shit). It doesn't go to chest within the TWC strike unless the body part is one that remains. I don't remember if corasine fap/fap flares or bonding have the same feature. I give it a solid could be possible maybe.

I can confirm that with TWC if the first swing severs the leg, the off-hand attack is random, although I think there is an increased probability it will default to the opposite arm (e.g. left leg / right arm). But I've had it go head, neck, eye, back etc. However, if the first swing gives a rank 3 wound but does NOT sever the leg, then what they're saying is the second swing always goes to the chest, which I can't confirm or deny.