DS in Offensive stance

[Muktare]

Ok, I have been trying to figure the exact numbers out for a bit. Not A whole lot of luck except it seems per 2 bonus points of shield I get 1 DS. How many bonus points of the other skills does it take to raise DS in O-Stance?

With limited amounts of migration use left (Already done 70 points in just a few days) I can't do much more experimetning.

Per bonus point (not per rank), What skill will raise this the most and in which order do the rest fall behind it and, if any, does one affect the other (such as 2 bonus points in shield = 1DS, but if you trained so much in another stat I would have gotten say 2) Thanks.

[mrjrd222]

There's no way 2 shield bonus adds 1 DS in offensive, maybe in defensive...

Dodge adds DS, the amount depends on a lot of factors though!

[Muktare]

when I did it I got 1 DS. My question isn't about hearsay. I want actual figures and numbers. If it doesn't give 1 DS then tell me how it got there. What were the other factors, how much is it? I know dodge, cmans, shield ETC ARE factors. I want to know what exactly those factors are. Tell me the order in which they fall in importance. Feed me with facts.

[Celephais]

All the skills add to DS based on RANKS. So Muktare you're seeing 0.5 DS per RANK of shield use, but this is likely not accurate either. There are a million threads on calculating DS in this folder.

[droit]

Go look it up for yourself on Krakiipedia. Here's a starting point:

http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Shield_Use

[Muktare]

not based on ranks. ranks give a bonus. Bonus gives stats... from what ive seen. I see the shield formula used ranks but that makes no sense. If it was rank based for DS then what is the actual value worth? i mean it goes from being worth 5 points per rank then 4 3 2 1 ETC. It goes down for a reason. Something doesn't make sense.

[Muktare]

Driot. good site. That will give me the shield portion of the DS, do you know of anything else for the rest?

[Celephais]

not based on ranks. ranks give a bonus. Bonus gives stats... from what ive seen
What you've seen is wrong.

It's based on ranks.

[Celephais]

The shield use bonus value is absolutely ignored for purposes of calculating DS. I agree that it's stupid, but when it comes to calculating your DS, all the skills that factor in are based on ranks.

[droit]

just search KP for dodge, parry (its on the twc page), etc.

[DoctorUnne]

Here is the answer you're looking for hopefully, in order. I'm going to use the word bonus in each of these formulas since that's what you asked for, and assuming you have at least 40 ranks, this will hold because 1 incremental rank = 1 incremental bonus. However, the formulas ARE all based on ranks, so if you're at fewer than 40 ranks you have to multiply appropriately.

For dodge, the DS per dodge bonus in offensive is equal to 0.75 * shield penalty * armor hindrance penalty.

Shield penalty is 0.78 for small, 0.70 for medium, 0.62 for large and 0.54 for tower. Armor hindrance penalty is 1 - (action penalty / 200), so for MBP for example it's 0.90.

So if you're in MBP with a medium shield, you're going to get 0.75 * 0.70 * 0.90 = 0.4725 DS for each bonus point (again assuming we're past 40 ranks). That's roughly 1 DS for every 2 points.

For shield, the DS per shield use bonus in offensive is equal to 0.33 * (1 + shield modifier). Shield modifier is -0.15 for small, 0.00 for medium, 0.15 for large and 0.30 for tower. Again assuming a medium shield that's 0.3333 DS for each bonus point, or 1 DS for every 3 points.

For parry, the DS per weapon skill bonus in offensive is equal to 0.2000, so 1 DS for every 5 points.

However, keep in mind you have to balance this against the TP cost of each of the skills. And also it's dependent on armor (for dodge) and shield (for dodge and shield) type.

[Latrinsorm]

The dodge shield penalty values aren't quite that. Porcell (who else?) figured it out once, I would recommend searching for his post about it (or anything else, for that matter). If someone can't find it, I'll dig for it in the old laptop later.

Also, I think it turned out that armor hindrance value was half the action penalty, but DS is such a pain in the ass to back out that I never checked it for sure.

[Celephais]

Uh... the forumla is posted on Play.net

[Latrinsorm]

Remember how it said "DFRedux" on play.net for about 26 years after it was changed IG to Damage Reduction, Warden posted saying it wasn't DFRedux, and we asked them repeatedly to change it? I only trust play.net for heraldry and shit, it's always been piss poor at mechanics.

[Riltus]

Shield factors for evade:

Small: .78
Medium: .70
Large: .62
Tower: .54

Mark

[DoctorUnne]

Also, I think it turned out that armor hindrance value was half the action penalty, but DS is such a pain in the ass to back out that I never checked it for sure.

You're right. I knew that was the formula but I mistyped the formula as AP/100 when it should be AP/200. You'll notice that when I did the example I did it right because MBP has an AP of 20, and I used 0.900. I edited it to fix that, as well as the actual shield penalties per Riltus' post. Thanks.

[Asrial]

Don't EVER trust the GS website.

They STILL haven't updated the information about the DS formulas, despite a GM outright saying the formulas are wrong.

Also, alot of information is usually left out.

It's taken me years to be able to accurately reproduce DS in all situations, and still there's a few I can't do it with (I think polearms is the last remaining hurdle, I don't remember).

The info is good for a conceptual idea of what you can expect, but not so much for an exact science.