New Sorc

[Mateius]

Can someone give me some suggestions on what training path to take my sorc?

Demonology or Necro lore? Which lore is good for what training path? Thanks.

[Allereli]

Honestly it's a matter of RP taste, not so much hunting. With demonology you have a better phase, 740, 718 and 712. With Necro you have a better pain, limb disruption, and animate hunting can be very fun. If it's a strict hunting lore you want, then go with spiritual lore-summoning. Direct damage spells (702, 705 and 719) are not affected by either.

[Fallen]

Don't forget about Phase (704) and Demonology. On the whole, aside from Pain Infliction Necro lore isn't really worth it. I would shoot for 52 ranks of Demonology. 1x it regardless of build and that will do you just fine.

[Swami71]

Fallen's suggestion is the best mechanical use of TP IMO too. Its what I used for a long time till I capped.

[Fallen]

Fallen's suggestion is the best mechanical use of TP IMO too. Its what I used for a long time till I capped.

If I could go back and do it again that is what I would have done. I would have picked up a full 1x in Necro lore after I capped, assuming I didn't decided to get the next 50 necro ranks or so after I got 52 in Demonology.

[Mateius]

If I could go back and do it again that is what I would have done. I would have picked up a full 1x in Necro lore after I capped, assuming I didn't decided to get the next 50 necro ranks or so after I got 52 in Demonology.

Ok so this means 1x in demonology and dont do any lores till I hit cap and that's when I get 101 in necro?


Fallen's suggestion is the best mechanical use of TP IMO too. Its what I used for a long time till I capped.

What did you do at cap?


Don't forget about Phase (704) and Demonology. On the whole, aside from Pain Infliction Necro lore isn't really worth it. I would shoot for 52 ranks of Demonology. 1x it regardless of build and that will do you just fine.


this means 1x till I hit 52 ranks and then stop correct?

[Mateius]

Honestly it's a matter of RP taste, not so much hunting. With demonology you have a better phase, 740, 718 and 712. With Necro you have a better pain, limb disruption, and animate hunting can be very fun. If it's a strict hunting lore you want, then go with spiritual lore-summoning. Direct damage spells (702, 705 and 719) are not affected by either.

If i plan on using 702, 705, and 719 dont train in necro and demonology at all? Just 1x in summon?

[Allereli]

If i plan on using 702, 705, and 719 dont train in necro and demonology at all? Just 1x in summon?

those spells don't even use summoning, 719 is supposedly helped by elemental lores. Get summoning for bolt spells 111 and 118

I train heavily in lores, and have always trained heavily, but I tend to like the so called tedium of the class.

Some of the best times I've had hunting was with animates in the Keen, stick with the squares for the least headache.

[Fallen]

1x demonology until you get 52 ranks, then start 1xing Necro until cap. The idea is to avoid going over 1x in Sorcerer lores, that is expensive and not worth the bother unless you're RPing a demonologist or a Necromancer.
----
Demonology is useful enough that even thought it doesn't effect any combat spells, it is still worth 1xing up to 52 ranks for IMO. However, if you just wanted a bigger CS, then yes, you could not do any lores and try to reach that 1.2x Status in the sorcerer circle.

[Mateius]

Ok so I plan on 1x demonology until I hit 52 ranks. When you say 1x in necro after that, do you mean that I should have 102 ranks at level 100 or just 1x starting at level 53 after Im done with the 1x demonology ranks?

And your tip about not doing lores if I want a big CS confused me. What skills/lores increase CS for sorc?

[radamanthys]

Should one still put one point into necro for blood return?

I know that one point saved my ass a couple times. One nailbiting time in reavers, I remember. Can't use it much since I've hunted undead almost exclusively.


Also, what's the limb animation chance with one rank?

[radamanthys]

More TPs allow you to overtrain in spells, allowing for higher CS. that's the only thing I can think of that he means.

check krakiipedia for the CS formula. I'd suggest the first tier. Those points make a big difference.

[Allereli]

1x demonology until you get 52 ranks, then start 1xing Necro until cap. The idea is to avoid going over 1x in Sorcerer lores, that is expensive and not worth the bother unless you're RPing a demonologist or a Necromancer.
----
Demonology is useful enough that even thought it doesn't effect any combat spells, it is still worth 1xing up to 52 ranks for IMO. However, if you just wanted a bigger CS, then yes, you could not do any lores and try to reach that 1.2x Status in the sorcerer circle.

The problem with this approach is that it assumes you need the CS to make it to cap, you don't, you can play with the spells beforehand. 0-99 can be fun, too.

[Fallen]

The problem with this approach is that it assumes you need the CS to make it to cap, you don't, you can play with the spells beforehand. 0-99 can be fun, too.

I was barely 2xed before I capped, Allereli, and my CS without enhancives is 502. I only preach a high CS because it is what most people want; the most power out of the sorcerer profession.

[Fallen]

Ok so I plan on 1x demonology until I hit 52 ranks. When you say 1x in necro after that, do you mean that I should have 102 ranks at level 100 or just 1x starting at level 53 after Im done with the 1x demonology ranks?

And your tip about not doing lores if I want a big CS confused me. What skills/lores increase CS for sorc?

No skill increases CS aside from Spell Training, which you would be able to do more by slacking off on lores and putting those TPs into spells. For optimal CS you want to stay at 1.2x, or 20 spells above your level in the sorcerer circle. The point I was making was to never go ABOVE 1x in sorcerer lores as the cost goes from 6 MTPs to 12 MTPs, which is in my opinion far from worth the costs. It is better to put those points into other more useful skills IMO.

What build are you going for, Mateius? Runestaff, Sword and Shield, Shield and Brawl?

[Allereli]

I was barely 2xed before I capped, Allereli, and my CS without enhancives is 502. I only preach a high CS because it is what most people want; the most power out of the sorcerer profession.

It's not a personal attack, just a different perspective. Since everyone complains about the direct damage spells (plink this, plink that), I simply argue that perhaps it's a more enjoyable route to use other spells and other interesting systems like animation. If you want to hack and slash with one hit kills all the time, I don't think sorcery is the profession to choose.

[Fallen]

It's not a personal attack, just a different perspective. Since everyone complains about the direct damage spells (plink this, plink that), I simply argue that perhaps it's a more enjoyable route to use other spells and other interesting systems like animation. If you want to hack and slash with one hit kills all the time, I don't think sorcery is the profession to choose.

Which is fucked up considering all the stupid people who still think we're so overpowered. Still, I disagree that sorcerers cannot be dominant in the field, but they must train like the triplers of old to be so.

[Allereli]

Which is fucked up considering all the stupid people who still think we're so overpowered. Still, I disagree that sorcerers cannot be dominant in the field, but they must train like the triplers of old to be so.

I don't think our hunting spells are necessarily underpowered. We are one of the best if not the best at handling swarms.

[Mateius]

No skill increases CS aside from Spell Training, which you would be able to do more by slacking off on lores and putting those TPs into spells. For optimal CS you want to stay at 1.2x, or 20 spells above your level in the sorcerer circle. The point I was making was to never go ABOVE 1x in sorcerer lores as the cost goes from 6 MTPs to 12 MTPs, which is in my opinion far from worth the costs. It is better to put those points into other more useful skills IMO.

What build are you going for, Mateius? Runestaff, Sword and Shield, Shield and Brawl?

I'd like to go the runestaff route but I'm open to sorc design. I figured runestaff would be the most TP efficient since it requires things that I think a sorcerer needs anyway. I originally rolled a sorc because I thought they could blow shit up, but from what you said in the above quote, sorc plink things to death?

Animate dead sounds fun but simpler the better for me. Most chars have been squares, my empath swings, and my wizard swings so this will be my first shot at a pure class.

And Fallen, you said i need to have 20 ranks above my level in the sorc circle? So does this mean I should stop training in the 100s and 400s eventually and just stack sorc circle?

I also heard that 2x in MIU will help in later levels. Any truth to this?

[radamanthys]

I'd like to go the runestaff route but I'm open to sorc design. I figured runestaff would be the most TP efficient since it requires things that I think a sorcerer needs anyway. I originally rolled a sorc because I thought they could blow shit up, but from what you said in the above quote, sorc plink things to death?

Animate dead sounds fun but simpler the better for me. Most chars have been squares, my empath swings, and my wizard swings so this will be my first shot at a pure class.

And Fallen, you said i need to have 20 ranks above my level in the sorc circle? So does this mean I should stop training in the 100s and 400s eventually and just stack sorc circle?

I also heard that 2x in MIU will help in later levels. Any truth to this?

Elemental Targeting is a big one. Gives you 25 points. Get that asap. Plus your defensive spells early on. Up to 107.
First benchmarks, I'd say, are 425 and 107.

Plus, you'll get some nifty spells inbetween. Mana sucks, though. Get used to it early on- I don't think there's any getting around it.

I think my Training plan was this. I'm rather "cookie cutter DE runestaff sorc". It's been a while though:
24 physical fitness (maxed my HP)
4 Armor (Wore fulls)
1x perception
1x miu, 1x Harness, 1x arcane sym, 2x spell aim, 1x smc, 1x emc, 2.5x spells
smattering of lore, climbing, swimming

gave me a bunch of ranks for my Runestaff, and was good for killin early. (that said, i remember having a sword for the early couple of levels, killing mummies in the graveyard. Wraiths were AWESOME). I'd say to use your overtrain first to get your early spells, then worry about the CS boost later, once you've gotten all your spells set up.

I seriously have a memory like a steel sieve, so I might be wrong.

[Fallen]

I'd like to go the runestaff route but I'm open to sorc design. I figured runestaff would be the most TP efficient since it requires things that I think a sorcerer needs anyway. I originally rolled a sorc because I thought they could blow shit up, but from what you said in the above quote, sorc plink things to death?

Animate dead sounds fun but simpler the better for me. Most chars have been squares, my empath swings, and my wizard swings so this will be my first shot at a pure class.

And Fallen, you said i need to have 20 ranks above my level in the sorc circle? So does this mean I should stop training in the 100s and 400s eventually and just stack sorc circle?

I also heard that 2x in MIU will help in later levels. Any truth to this?

Mana Disruption (702), and Disintegrate (705) are quite mana efficient, but as there is no way to increase the damage done with these spells aside from Channeling with open hands, towards the mid, and especially in the later levels of the game they fall behind similar spells other pures have at their disposal. Pain Infliction (711) is another example of an extremely effective spell, but is still takes a MINIMUM of 3 casts to kill something with it. Torment (718) is also, again, efficient, but it takes around 5-7 seconds for its first strike to land, and if you miss a vital area you can go 5 second round after 5 second round while the thing is slowly bled out. The spell is also dangerous to use due it it requiring the caster to be at or near offensive stance.

That leaves Dark Catalyst (719) and Implosion (720). Both can be extremely quick killers if you are trained properly, and pick the right targets. Casting 719 at anything that doesn't cast spells is a waste of mana. 720 without Spell Aiming severely reduces the spell's effectiveness on anything 5 levels above you. Some targets are also resistant to Implosion, such as flying creatures. They are also rather costly, so don't be expecting to use them much until you have a decent supply of mana.

Animate Dead (730) *IS* fun, but it also one of the most annoying spells in the game to use. It requires a significant lore investment (around 1x minimum) to be of use for most of the levels of the game, and requires that you gather 1 moonflower (only grows at night around Icemule), Trolls blood of the appropriate level, and Sea water (Available in Solhaven, RR, The Landing, and FWI. Nothing in Ta'Vaalor or Ta'Illistim.). You must then grind it up and cast 719 at the remains. Start to finish it takes about 3-5? minutes per crystal formation, assuming you have all the ingredients on hand. This will allow you to animate *1* creature *ONCE*. You will also need a gem to hold while casting at the creature, which will then become worthless to sell. They are only good for deeds and for clerics to put spells in. You will now have an animate for a relatively short amount of time. Their effectiveness depends on the creature type. If you pick a creature that can swing a weapon hard, you can make use of them. If you get a caster you may get some usefull spells out of them, but on the whole, they aren't very effective at like level, let alone up hunting. The spell's duration cannot be stacked, cannot be refreshed, and should your animate get hurt and can no longer attack, you cannot heal it.

THAT...is animate dead.

>>>And Fallen, you said i need to have 20 ranks above my level in the sorc circle? So does this mean I should stop training in the 100s and 400s eventually and just stack sorc circle?>>>

Yes, but not quite as soon as you think. If you are saving your TPs to triple train in spells, that means whenever you have the points, you get an EXTRA rank in the sorcerer circle while keeping up with your 100's and 400's circle training as well. You should ALWAYS get a rank of sorcerer circle per every level, then get either a 400's circle spell, or a 100's circle spell. The order you get spells is up to you. I would advice going up the 400's until 425 or 430, and stopping there to get up to 120. Any way you want to go is fine, but know that training in the 400's circle will mean your Sorcerer CS will get bigger because of the benefits 425 gives you. There is no real benefits to going ABOVE 140 at the moment, aside from some extra DS from 102/120. I would stop there and go all the way up to 475 to get the most CS, if that is the route you are choosing.

>>>>>>I also heard that 2x in MIU will help in later levels. Any truth to this?>>>>

That depends on several things. MIU is very useful for the spell of Scroll Infusion. Scroll Infusion allows you to put a lot of extra charges into spells on scrolls. It is a rather complicated spell, but if you want me to go into detail, I certainly can. Allereli is also pretty wiz-bang good at Scroll infusion too. I would 1x/1x Arcane Symbols AND MIU if you're going the Runestaff route. You need those magical ranks for DS, and both of those are cheap skills.

You should be shooting for 8 magical ranks per level at the very minimum, but you should definitely look to go higher than that. For a better explanation of Runestaff defense, check out this link: http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Runestaff

I would suggest at core:

1x Arcane Symbols/MIU
1x Elemental/Spiritual Mana Control
1x Harness Power
2x Spell Aim
1x Demonology until 52 ranks, then 1x Necro until cap.
2x MINIMUM spells

You should never really be going below the above training regimen. That is a bare bones setup, and you can and will be training in MORE than that per level, but do so how you want. You're also going to need enough Armor Use for either Fulls/Double leather armor, Physical training (atleast 24 ranks for a Dark Elf), and Climbing & Swimming. The rest of your points should go into Spells and likely more Harness Power. A lot of pures like to 2x Harness power until around level 35-40 to help them through the lower levels, so keep that in mind as well.

Sorry for the long post. If you have any more questions, keep firing away.

[radamanthys]

I did 1.5 Harness for a while. That said, I'm not completely cookie cutter, since Rada is Voln. 1-2 deeds for a squirt of mana. I didn't really think that one through. But... nobody's told him about the secret society yet, so no CoL until then. It doesn't help that he's a total agoraphobic.

Ok, off-topic. *smack*

As a runestaff sorc, Fallen is right with the bare minimum there.

[Fallen]

I'm still sitting pretty at 1x Harness Power, but I wrack heavily and train in the skills needed to ensure I have the DS to do so. After I finish 1xing Elemental Mana Control I am probably going to start crawling my way to 2x HP to help mitigate the loss to my mana from the Wracking nerfs sure to come.

Mana = Fun. I don't care what pure profession you are, that will always hold true.

[Allereli]

I didn't train Aller with any particular plan in mind except to "be good at everything" :shrug:

Allereli (at level 91), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 40 8
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 10 2
Physical Fitness...................| 105 25
Arcane Symbols.....................| 222 122
Magic Item Use.....................| 193 93
Spell Aiming.......................| 286 186
Harness Power......................| 196 96
Elemental Mana Control.............| 180 80
Spirit Mana Control................| 179 79
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 143 43
Sorcerous Lore - Demonology........| 175 75
Sorcerous Lore - Necromancy........| 197 97
Survival...........................| 140 40
Perception.........................| 155 55
Climbing...........................| 132 36
Swimming...........................| 141 41
First Aid..........................| 154 54

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 56

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 40

Spell Lists
Sorcerer...........................| 95

[Fallen]

Yeah, that is all over the place. Still, you have all the core skills needed so you're good to go. Any specific post-cap goals, A?

I won't litter the thread with my training plan. Post cap points skew it a bit.

[radamanthys]

You're 91 now, Allereli? How long ago was the test server up? May? Was it really a year ago now?

Shit.

[Allereli]

Mana = Fun. I don't care what pure profession you are, that will always hold true.

Agree, you can save the training points though and get cheaper ranks in MIU and use imbeds. If you need some made in mass quantities, no problem, I've hardly had any blow on me since the changes. I just used to buy every twisted wand I could find.

It's a little more complicated, but once you can use a demon, it's great how much extra a shien can provide on a hunt in combination with racking. I start out with receiving 39 from the 45 mana capacity, then I rack just once, I have potentially gotten an additional 39 by immediately sending to the demon after the wrack. You can time it around pulses so that you wrack, send and the pulse comes soon after to refill what you just sent. Since you said you'll be training demonology, it's another way you can use it.

Use mana regen enhancives and +max mana items.

[Allereli]

Yeah, that is all over the place. Still, you have all the core skills needed so you're good to go. Any specific post-cap goals, A?

In no order:

max out my skinning skills, I love to skin and winning skinning contests as a sorcerer is awesome for the ego. Getting 2nd to a ranger is acceptable. It's also the only reliable way to cash hunt anymore.

max arcane symbols and mana controls for scroll infusion and spell duration

Max spirit summoning lore, keep demon at 75, animate will be 127. I can phase up to 30 lbs with the demon lore.

Those are the immediate goals. I'm a total retard when it comes to cmans and don't know where to begin with them.

My CS is 451 with 425 running and enhancives, and I use a +10 mana regen runestaff for the bulk of my hunts.


You're 91 now, Allereli? How long ago was the test server up? May? Was it really a year ago now?

Shit.

yeah you need to come back

[Mateius]

All I can say is thank you all for posting. You guys have been a huge help. This should make leveling my sorc much more enjoyable.

[Allereli]

All I can say is thank you all for posting. You guys have been a huge help. This should make leveling my sorc much more enjoyable.

sword and board until you're about to lose the unlimited fix skills.

[Mateius]

I passed the sword and board stage. I just hit level 25 and got 425 which I think will make life much easier. I just figured it was time to actually get to know the class so I can use my fixskill before we get another one in about a month.

is there a way to save this thread as a favorite or do i have to save the web pages?

[Fallen]

I passed the sword and board stage. I just hit level 25 and got 425 which I think will make life much easier. I just figured it was time to actually get to know the class so I can use my fixskill before we get another one in about a month.

is there a way to save this thread as a favorite or do i have to save the web pages?

I don't think so. Suscribing seems sorta pointless to me as once the thread dies it falls off your member page. You can search for the title of it in the sorcerer folder under Advanced search and using your Screen name. That should pull it up fairly quickly.

[Allereli]

My CS is 451 with 425 running

oops, that's wrong, forgot I haven't been hunting since I trained.

I remember things being hard until around late 30s. Having a regular hunting partner helps. I'm a big fan of maelstrom, too.

[Fallen]

oops, that's wrong, forgot I haven't been hunting since I trained.

I remember things being hard until around late 30s. Having a regular hunting partner helps. I'm a big fan of maelstrom, too.

Maelstrom...Plinking...Alchemy...Woman, are you like 62 years old? You're the most patient sorcerer I think i've ever met!

[zhelas]

I would suggest at core:

1x Arcane Symbols/MIU
1x Elemental/Spiritual Mana Control
1x Harness Power
2x Spell Aim
1x Demonology until 52 ranks, then 1x Necro until cap.
2x MINIMUM spells



Which is pretty much what I did. When I reached cap. My CS is at 513. I am pretty happy with that. My immediate goals is to better my Arcane and work on Summonin Lores.


Zhelas (at level 100), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 40 8
Physical Fitness...................| 102 24
Arcane Symbols.....................| 201 101
Magic Item Use.....................| 201 101
Spell Aiming.......................| 302 202
Harness Power......................| 201 101
Elemental Mana Control.............| 201 101
Spirit Mana Control................| 201 101
Sorcerous Lore - Demonology........| 150 50
Sorcerous Lore - Necromancy........| 200 100
Perception.........................| 150 50
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 160 60

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 75

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 50

Spell Lists
Sorcerer...........................| 120

[Asha]

Zhelas your CS is the same as mine lol.

[Fallen]

Yeah, mine is 514 with all my enhancives. Really, 520 should be a goal for all sorcerers. Once you have 520, you can realistically ward almost everything in the game with no, or little chance of failure.

Going beyond that seems to burn up points that can get you SO MANY other skills for SO LITTLE benefit.

[Allereli]

Maelstrom...Plinking...Alchemy...Woman, are you like 62 years old? You're the most patient sorcerer I think i've ever met!

fuck I have to rewrite this :(

I don't consider myself to plink. I don't go out and MD, MD, MD. MD is a finishing spell or for underhunting. I try to hunt things that swarm, and that's when I use maelstrom. Why cast direct damage spells when you can disable, maelstrom and just let it die while dealing with the rest of the room or what might come into the room? Maelstrom is a 10 mana spell with no warding roll, and rarely lasts beyond two cycles. If there's one creature, then I just kill it. This works great in the ducts. I've never died there and can stand there for hours at the crossroads. It's not boring at all and I mix in different spells.

In the rift I've been bolting Vaesps, often one shotting them with 111.

I like to hunt and don't bind myself to any town and feel comfortable almost anywhere socially, while hunting what's best for me at that level. I can make over 30k on XXX just like everyone else, and I rarely ever complain about our "underpowered" spells. People complain about the complexity of 714, but I respect the fact that I have almost unlimited access to just about every spell in the game.

For the people who want the old DC back, I've gone back and looked at one of the few logs I have of hunting on the old Thanatoph. I one shot everything with DC for a 6 or 7 mana cost. It was boring, I lost interest, gave away my character and quit the game for over 5 years.

[Fallen]

I consider anything over 10 seconds per kill plinking, just as a frame of reference. If I wanted to wait that long I would have rolled a warrior.

[Sean]

For the people who want the old DC back, I've gone back and looked at one of the few logs I have of hunting on the old Thanatoph. I one shot everything with DC for a 6 or 7 mana cost. It was boring, I lost interest, gave away my character and quit the game for over 5 years.

How is this more boring than going to a swarm and waiting for maelstorm to kill everything off?

[Allereli]

I consider anything over 10 seconds per kill plinking, just as a frame of reference. If I wanted to wait that long I would have rolled a warrior.

But you're not taking 10 seconds on it, it's one cast disable, one cast maelstorm, and on to the next creature, just because it hasn't died yet doesn't mean you haven't essentially killed it already.

[Allereli]

How is this more boring than going to a swarm and waiting for maelstorm to kill everything off?

It was being a one-trick pony. I like the variety of the game. If I wanted to kill everything the same way, I would have been a square.

[Fallen]

OTF is really the best place to hunt for Sorcerers who don't want to plink. It was all the crap leading up to it which sucks.

At Cap the following creatures give you experience: War Griffins, Seers, Adepts, Initiates, Heralds, Constructs, and Janissaries.

Most people avoid Janissaries and obviously Constructs right off the bat. Some even avoid Heralds and Initiates.

What I do:

Dark Catalyst: Seers, Adepts, Heralds, and Initiates. Usually kills them in one shot. If it doesn't, cast the spell again or finish with 705 channeled from offensive with an open hand.

E-Strike: Janissaries. They are rich because no one bothers to kill them. Usually 1-2 shots of E-strike puts them down with 74 ranks in Minor Elemental.

Implode: Griffins, but this often leads to 3-5 casts without setup. Best to web bolt, then implode.

M-strike from hunting partner, then DC Constructs when I bother with them. Usually wipes them out in 1-2 casts.

All said and done, you can hunt OTF without plinking as a sorcerer if you avoid Constructs, Janissaries, and have Web bolt which can hit Griffins.

[Sean]

It was being a one-trick pony. I like the variety of the game. If I wanted to kill everything the same way, I would have been a square.

Maelstorm was viable then too.

[Fallen]

But you're not taking 10 seconds on it, it's one cast disable, one cast maelstorm, and on to the next creature, just because it hasn't died yet doesn't mean you haven't essentially killed it already.

What are you hunting that you can reliably have more than 1 creature in the room per kill? Lost Souls and Vaesps?

[Fallen]

Maelstorm was viable then too.

Not in focused form, nor was Focused Implosion. Those were concessions for the 702/719 nerfs.

[Sean]

Not in focused form, nor was Focused Implosion. Those were concessions for the 702/719 nerfs.

No, not in a focused form. But her whole theme has been variety and picking the best weapons for the best hunting ground. 719 was awesome in stone giants, 710 was awesome in say warcats (I know I made a mint this way). I'm just saying you still had options and decisions outside of being just a 1 trick pony.

[Allereli]

What are you hunting that you can reliably have more than 1 creature in the room per kill? Lost Souls and Vaesps?

I'm not using maelstrom up there. It's about using the appropriate spell in the appropriate place. But yes, I can reliably handle two in the same room, not quite comfortable with three yet, I just started hunting again after a considerable break. Vaesps are easier than Souls for me.

If people want to have a high CS and go room to room DCing everything for a kill and then complain about being maneuvered, fine with me, I'm actually against the idea of phase being self-cast for any sort of maneuver defense.

[Fallen]

No, not in a focused form. But her whole theme has been variety and picking the best weapons for the best hunting ground. 719 was awesome in stone giants, 710 was awesome in say warcats (I know I made a mint this way). I'm just saying you still had options and decisions outside of being just a 1 trick pony.

True. What was Disintegrate like back then? I never played with Sorcerers when they were that old. Or rather, all I remember was DC was insane, then I played shortly after the nerfs I think. It's all a bit blurry before the age of 12 or whatever.

[Fallen]

If people want to have a high CS and go room to room DCing everything for a kill and then complain about being maneuvered, fine with me, I'm actually against the idea of phase being self-cast for any sort of maneuver defense.

Why? All pures are going to be given phantom ranks of Dodge, because they are going to factor dodge into all maneuvers. We are not GAINING anything, we will be breaking even.

[Allereli]

Why? All pures are going to be given phantom ranks of Dodge, because they are going to factor dodge into all maneuvers. We are not GAINING anything, we will be breaking even.

For a 4 mana spell, I think it does enough already. If what you say is true, then change disease and give a new spell. When does the dodge thing happen? I try to play for what's enjoyable now.

[Fallen]

For a 4 mana spell, I think it does enough already. If what you say is true, then change disease and give a new spell. When does the dodge thing happen? I try to play for what's enjoyable now.

I certainly wouldn't mind giving up 735 as a defensive spell, and stick the dodge ranks on there instead. Of late I am thinking I would rather have 716 become a very strong mana inefficient warding based spell. Like Wither but less retarded. The changes to dodge and maneuvers, as well as the changes to Hiding and heavy armor are both due RSN.

No worries on both, i'm thinking.

[Allereli]

I only preach a high CS because it is what most people want; the most power out of the sorcerer profession.

Another thing here, and again not personal, is what is power? I have a lower CS than most, but would you ever call my character unpowerful? In a game like GS, which doesn't give a proper venue for CvC, to me power is being able to do things others can't do, provide a valuable service, and by being known. Sereg is the master of MD, it frustrates me to no end to watch him hunt, but I would never call him unpowerful since he is the best demonologist in the game. Evarin is powerful because of the dhe'nar and the way you play him. Anyone can kill shit and make it to cap and hunt, that's the easy part.

[Allereli]

Of late I am thinking I would rather have 716 become a very strong mana inefficient warding based spell.

My vote is still for disease to be a bolt spell. It would be great to have a native bolt spell

[Fallen]

Another thing here, and again not personal, is what is power? I have a lower CS than most, but would you ever call my character unpowerful? In a game like GS, which doesn't give a proper venue for CvC, to me power is being able to do things others can't do, provide a valuable service, and by being known. Sereg is the master of MD, it frustrates me to no end to watch him hunt, but I would never call him unpowerful since he is the best demonologist in the game. Evarin is powerful because of the dhe'nar and the way you play him. Anyone can kill shit and make it to cap and hunt, that's the easy part.

I agree with this, but you're talking power from primarily a roleplay sense. I am talking about power from a mechanical sense. That means, for a sorcerer, CS. You do more damage to a creature the more CS you have with 702/705, our primary spells until much later in the game. You also do not miss with 711/719, which also equates to power in the mechanical sense.

When people are asking for mechanical help, I tend to give them answers from a mechanical viewpoint in return. People will either roleplay or they wont. If they are inspired by a fellow sorcerer to pick up necromancy or demonology (or infusion, etc), then they can always adjust their build to compensate. I want them to be as Powerful right out the bat as possible, and that means putting things down fast. For a sorcerer, that's all CS.

In truth, i've always found the line, "Place your skills for RP", in a thread asking for mechanical help for a build without further explanation as unhelpful. If they knew how to do that AND be effective at the same time they wouldn't be posting for help. Not a shot at you, A, just a comment in general.

[Fallen]

My vote is still for disease to be a bolt spell. It would be great to have a native bolt spell

We have the lowest Bolt AS out of any pure class. That is WITH 75 ranks of Minor Elemental. Which means we will either be relying on disabling the creature first to hit it (plinking), or getting some sort of AS booster, or DS lowering effect added to the spell, which would be a hard sell. That, or we will have yet ANOTHER means to disable a creature by scratching it with a bolt spell then gaining a secondary effect...Eh. I think we have enough of those. I used to be in favor of that idea, but with wizard wands, Web bolt, and Fire spirit, what more do we need out of bolts?

[Allereli]

In truth, i've always found the line, "Place your skills for RP", in a thread asking for mechanical help for a build without further explanation as unhelpful. If they knew how to do that AND be effective at the same time they wouldn't be posting for help. Not a shot at you, A, just a comment in general.

I agree, but I think it's also wrong to only train for post-cap fun and experimentation, and telling someone the standard is to have at least 2.5x in spells is hindering them in other training options. I like to share on what I think are the cooler aspects of the profession and ask what they want to be able to do. I can't tell you how many times I've offered someone a runestone since they had interest in a demon to hear them say they didn't have any ranks to use it.

[Fallen]

I agree, but I think it's also wrong to only train for post-cap fun and experimentation, and telling someone the standard is to have at least 2.5x in spells is hindering them in other training options. I like to share on what I think are the cooler aspects of the profession and ask what they want to be able to do. I can't tell you how many times I've offered someone a runestone since they had interest in a demon to hear them say they didn't have any ranks to use it.

Nor would they have the Illusion training, nor would they have the patience needed to keep the demon's duration refreshed AND the illusion up. That is all beyond the scope of a novice sorcerer. You have to admit, Allereli, that spell is a pain in the ass to make it useful outside of Icemule and Teras.

AD again, is awesome, but not for a novice user. The MAL formula is brutal, especially for lower level characters. You need to be 1xed at what? near 50 to BREAK EVEN, meaning animating something your own level, let alone all the hoops you jump through to GET the crystals in the first place.

Scroll infusion you should well know is a passion of mine, and I always mention it in passing, but again, very complex spell that isn't useful until mid/later levels. Newbs just end up killing themselves or locking scrolls.

[Allereli]

Nor would they have the Illusion training, nor would they have the patience needed to keep the demon's duration refreshed AND the illusion up. That is all beyond the scope of a novice sorcerer. You have to admit, Allereli, that spell is a pain in the ass to make it useful outside of Icemule and Teras.

AD again, is awesome, but not for a novice user. The MAL formula is brutal, especially for lower level characters. You need to be 1xed at what? near 50 to BREAK EVEN, meaning animating something your own level, let alone all the hoops you jump through to GET the crystals in the first place.

Scroll infusion you should well know is a passion of mine, and I always mention it in passing, but again, very complex spell that isn't useful until mid/later levels. Newbs just end up killing themselves or locking scrolls.

The first two issues can be solved easily. It's a multi-player game. Find a partner, find someone willing to help, post on the boards, use your guild thought net, you don't have to RP well to ask for help, I don't think I'm all that great at RP. Sure it got boring, but no more than, say, any of the artisan skills.

Scroll infusion I started at level 20, and felt comfortable with by level 30. Yes I locked some scrolls, and I died once, but so what? I can die stupidly while hunting, too. I learned the limits of what I was comfortable with. I'll work on any scroll now, but I used to refuse to work on anything higher than 15th level spells. It doesn't make the spell not useful. To me scroll infusion is the most limited spell in the game, more than demons, because of the workshop availability, but no one else really wants to fight for access gamewide.

My thinking is, if I can do it, so can you.

[Asha]

Woah woah woah sweet child of mine.. You actually use E-strike on Jans?
I never thought that'd be any good but thinking about it now yeah, it hits pretty hard.

You prefer it to anything else?
Also, does web bolt his griffins AND web then often with a bolt AS of about 425? No set up?

[Fallen]

Woah woah woah sweet child of mine.. You actually use E-strike on Jans?
I never thought that'd be any good but thinking about it now yeah, it hits pretty hard.

You prefer it to anything else?
Also, does web bolt his griffins AND web then often with a bolt AS of about 425? No set up?

E-strike will either crit kill a Jan outright, or Put it prone and take a limb. It on rare occasions wont, but most usually this is the case with 74 ranks of Minor Elemental. I like their treasure, so I want to do more than just get exp via 720, and it is dangerous to be voiding Ithzir all the time. I find it works well. I haven't played around too much with 409 and Jans, but they seem fairly well padded. Maybe I will give it a go and see which generates a better crit kill. 702 and 705 bore me.

425 AS SHOULD hit a griffin 100% of the time, even if they haven't attacked yet. With Web Bolt you only need a 101 endroll to get it proned and webbed. Pretty nice setup for a void if you ask me. It only costs 8 mana too. Granted, I have 90 ranks of Summoning lore, so I get the web effect pretty damned often, but Summoning lore ROCKS, so sorcerers should get a lot of it towards cap anyway.

[radamanthys]

It's hard to be a sorcerer without being premie. Locker space, and all.

[Asha]

Thats some good advice mate. I'm heading over there now to take a look and c.
I only have 20 ranks of summon so I hardly get webs from bolt. Will definitely work that up.

[Asha]

Plus I forgot to mention web bolt will ALWAYS take the griffin out of the sky, so I'm betting it compliments Archery AS for the follow up shot.
They are really weak to eye shots with an arrow.

[Fallen]

Limb Shots
----
You gesture at an Ithzir janissary. (Oldest genning one there is +5 from their BCS)
CS: +506 - TD: +385 + CvA: -2 + d100: +23 == +142
Warding failed!
You blast an Ithzir janissary for 24 points of damage.
... 20 points of damage!
Good blow to left leg!
The Ithzir janissary is knocked over by the blast!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

You gesture at an Ithzir janissary.
CS: +506 - TD: +370 + CvA: -2 + d100: +63 == +197
Warding failed!
You blast an Ithzir janissary for 61 points of damage.
... 50 points of damage!
Every bone in the left arm shattered and scattered about!
The janissary's steel shield falls to the ground.
The Ithzir janissary is knocked over by the blast!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

You gesture at an Ithzir janissary.
CS: +506 - TD: +370 + CvA: -2 + d100: +10 == +144
Warding failed!
You blast an Ithzir janissary for 41 points of damage.
... 35 points of damage!
Bones in right arm shatter violently leaving behind a bloody stump!
The janissary's handaxe falls to the ground.
The Ithzir janissary is knocked over by the blast!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

You gesture at an Ithzir janissary.
CS: +506 - TD: +370 + CvA: -2 + d100: +67 == +201
Warding failed!
You blast an Ithzir janissary for 57 points of damage.
... 50 points of damage!
Left leg collapses as the bones turn to dust!
An Ithzir janissary falls to the ground grasping her mangled left leg!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>
You gesture at an Ithzir janissary.
CS: +506 - TD: +370 + CvA: -2 + d100: +21 == +155
Warding failed!
You blast an Ithzir janissary for 51 points of damage.
... 35 points of damage!
Bones in right arm shatter violently leaving behind a bloody stump!
The janissary's handaxe falls to the ground.
The Ithzir janissary is knocked over by the blast!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

----
Trunk shots

You gesture at an Ithzir janissary.
CS: +506 - TD: +370 + CvA: -2 + d100: +69 == +203
Warding failed!
You blast an Ithzir janissary for 98 points of damage.
... 50 points of damage!
Blast to neck causes the Ithzir janissary to jerk with pain. Unfortunately that snaps the now frozen neck like an icicle!
The Ithzir janissary falls to the ground in a crumpled heap.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

You gesture at an Ithzir janissary.
CS: +506 - TD: +370 + CvA: -2 + d100: +80 == +214
Warding failed!
You blast an Ithzir janissary for 41 points of damage.
... 60 points of damage!
Neck is vaporized by decompression!
The Ithzir janissary falls to the ground in a crumpled heap.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

You gesture at an Ithzir janissary.
CS: +506 - TD: +370 + CvA: -2 + d100: +46 == +180
Warding failed!
You blast an Ithzir janissary for 69 points of damage.
... 70 points of damage!
Massive electrical bolt burns a hole through the back and kidneys.
The Ithzir janissary falls to the ground in a crumpled heap.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

You gesture at an Ithzir janissary.
CS: +506 - TD: +370 + CvA: -2 + d100: +23 == +157
Warding failed!
You blast an Ithzir janissary for 74 points of damage.
... 50 points of damage!
Powerful blast reduces the Ithzir janissary to a smoldering pile of ash!
The Ithzir janissary falls to the ground in a crumpled heap.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

See? You either crit out the limb, or you kill them. Good stuff

[Asha]

Hmm.. Have you tried 717?
Drops 90% combatants first time. Probably work even better for jans but of course might leave crystal weaps lying around.
Oh hang on, do Jans have that 717 TD push up?

[Fallen]

Hmm.. Have you tried 717?
Drops 90% combatants first time. Probably work even better for jans but of course might leave crystal weaps lying around.
Oh hang on, do Jans have that 717 TD push up?

I think they do. If my CS was about 20 points higher I could bypass their 717 resistances, but at the moment the fucking over of sorcerers in OTF prevents me from making use of that spell. It IS a good spell in the Temple, though, and if I ever did head over there I would make use of it.

[Asha]

I'll check it out. Thanks for all the info.
This guy can have his thread back heh.

[Sean]

Out of curiousity in OTF main hunting area is 110 effective at all assuming you have the CS to ward?

[Asha]

The CS requirement looks INSANE. I haven't a prayer. Would like to know also, though.

[Fallen]

Out of curiousity in OTF main hunting area is 110 effective at all assuming you have the CS to ward?

IF you have the CS to ward, 110 might be a decent spell, but it really isn't meant for killing. It would depend on what you're trying to do with it. You're not going to stun a Janissary or a Seer with it, it isn't going to get you crit kills, and you can't knock down griffins with it.

So...really..no.

[Mateius]

OMG. so much reading. i love it.

[Lord Orbstar]

this was one of the most cogent and helpful threads ever on sorcs.

[radamanthys]

:-D

Kinda sad that Fallen, Allereli and I don't play (sorcerers, at least) anymore.