Post Your CMAN Setup

[Fallen]

List your profession, level, and build. If you're a Rogue or Warrior, skip the Guild stuff as that doesn't really apply. Pures can join in too if you have any training. Just trying to get a general sense of what everyone is doing. Finally, list if you're happy with your current build, and any plans for future training you may have.

[Fallen]

I will get this started.

Sorcerer, Capped, Shield/Brawl

Currently: Rank 4 Disarm
Planning on: Rank 5 Disarm, Rank 4 Feint

Fairly happy with it, if expensive.

[Izzy]

Zero cman ranks as a 61 (ranged) ranger because they aren't worth the points. Fuck our cman list :(

Eventually I suspect I'll master disarm, and probably mfire for fun, not utility. Such trainings are far away though, at this point.

[Fallen]

Zero cman ranks as a 61 (ranged) ranger because they aren't worth the points. Fuck our cman list :(

Eventually I suspect I'll master disarm, and probably mfire for fun, not utility. Such trainings are far away though, at this point.

You can do Weapon Spec on arrows for +2 AS Per rank!!!!!!! In all seriousness, I would wait until you get to a hunting ground and are facing a CMAN which is kicking your ass to start training in something.

[holocene]

Warrior, Capped, THW

Combat Movement, Rank 2
Combat Focus, Rank 5
Charge, Rank 3
Specialization II, Rank 5
Side by Side, Rank 3
Weapon Bonding, Rank 5
Combat Mobility, Rank 2
Combat Toughness, Rank 1
Surge of Strength, Rank 5
Parry Mastery, Rank 3

Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 8

[Izzy]

You can do Weapon Spec on arrows for +2 AS Per rank!!!!!!! In all seriousness, I would wait until you get to a hunting ground and are facing a CMAN which is kicking your ass to start training in something.

Rangers don't get wspec :(

Edit: But yeah, def waiting until I actually see a need for more defense before I dump points into cman. I've got nice enough gear + spells to not worry about it 99% of the time.

[Fallen]

Rangers don't get wspec

Gay.

[Fallen]

What do you guys think of dropping one rank of Weapon Spec to gain 10 CMAN points? That last rank is awfully expensive for the benefits of +2 AS and +2 to a combat maneuver attack involving your blade.

[BriarFox]

83 Ranger:

Nuadjha, your Combat Maneuver training is as follows:

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Dirtkick dirtkick 2
Disarm Weapon disarm 5
Sweep sweep 4
Feint feint 1

Partly for utility, partly for defense. Plan to train Feint up to rank 4 or so.

[Asha]

Sorcerer - Capped - Cman Disarm Rank 3
Can't decide whether I want to rank as high as 5 since they only disarm my arrows and the RT is the only danger to me.

I have really dropped my CM a lot to be fair. I have decided to power up my MNS circle and maybe start a new project, I haven't thought hard about it yet but maybe brawl to go with archery and the unlikely disarm.

I honestly haven't felt much of an itch to get anything other than coin farming done.

[danielsh]

83 Ranger:

Nuadjha, your Combat Maneuver training is as follows:

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Dirtkick dirtkick 2


With 2 ranks, is your dirtkick even remotely effective against like-aged critters?

- Cloakhe

[Kitsun]

Capped, Rogue Archer, no guild, full plate


Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Disarm Weapon disarm 5
Sweep sweep 5
Specialization I wspec1 1 (Bolts)
Specialization II wspec2 5 (Arrows)
Coup de Grace coupdegrace 3
Combat Mobility mobility 2
Surge of Strength surge 2

I'm happy with where it is for now. I might retrain up to COUP 5 eventually. I had it there when I was on a kick to see my AS around 640ish. Then I stopped using it so I dropped it and gained WSPEC for Arrows from 3 to 5.

I don't know if my shit counts since I MA =P

[BriarFox]

With 2 ranks, is your dirtkick even remotely effective against like-aged critters?

- Cloakhe

Yes, actually. Dirtkick is a sort of special cman. In my experience, at least, it uses a flat level-to-level comparison at any rank to see if it works, while training in more ranks of dirtkick gets you better benefits. That is, it's as successful at one rank as five, but five will reduce the target's AS, EBP, and perception more.

[Back]

Paladin, 34, sword/board

Shield Bash 3 ranks

knockdown/stun about 75% of the time, insta-death about 1-2%

Precision 1 rank

Weapon damage precision list:
Crushing Broadsword
Puncturing Dagger
Slashing Falchion
Crushing Handaxe
Puncturing Rapier
Slashing Longsword
Slashing Estoc


Specialization I 2 ranks

handaxe



Goals - Probably add bullrush, more wspec I

[Stunseed]

Capped thrown/shield Ranger.

Stunseed, your Combat Maneuver training is as follows:

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Combat Focus focus 4
Dirtkick dirtkick 4
Disarm Weapon disarm 4
Sweep sweep 4
Feint feint 4

I would train in more if the Ranger list had more to offer. Maybe I'll pick up garrote again so I can choke bitches. Other than that, meh.

[Izzy]

Capped, Rogue Archer, no guild, full plate


Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Disarm Weapon disarm 5
Sweep sweep 5
Specialization I wspec1 1 (Bolts)
Specialization II wspec2 5 (Arrows)
Coup de Grace coupdegrace 3
Combat Mobility mobility 2
Surge of Strength surge 2

I'm happy with where it is for now. I might retrain up to COUP 5 eventually. I had it there when I was on a kick to see my AS around 640ish. Then I stopped using it so I dropped it and gained WSPEC for Arrows from 3 to 5.

I don't know if my shit counts since I MA =P

How does coup work with ranged?

[drigore]

Rogue, archer, capped.

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Shadow Mastery smastery 5
Dirtkick dirtkick 3
Disarm Weapon disarm 4
Feint feint 4
Specialization I wspec1 4
Multi-Fire mfire 4
Sucker Punch spunch 4
Combat Mobility mobility 2
Surge of Strength surge 5
Dust Shroud shroud 1
Cutthroat cutthroat 4

That's my current build, I swap things out as I get bored with them. I go to 4 ranks on most things because rank 5 is 10 points, that's three ranks in something else. Just gives a bit more to play with.

[Mtenda]

Capped Rogue:

THW

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Combat Movement cmovement 5
Combat Focus focus 5
Shadow Mastery smastery 5
Disarm Weapon disarm 5
Specialization I wspec1 5
Coup de Grace coupdegrace 5
Combat Mobility mobility 2
Surge of Strength surge 2



76 Rogue:

Dual blunts and brawlers

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Combat Focus focus 5
Shadow Mastery smastery 5
Specialization I wspec1 5
Specialization II wspec2 5
Coup de Grace coupdegrace 5
Combat Mobility mobility 2

[DoctorUnne]

As a capped rogue, TWC ambush and mstrike, dual handaxe

Shadow Mastery Rank 5
Surge of Strength Rank 5
Coup de Grace Rank 5
Weapon Specialization I Rank 5
Sucker Punch Rank 5
Combat Toughness Rank 3
Disarm Rank 3
Combat Mobility Rank 2
Silent Strike Rank 2

As a level 49 rogue with 69 ranks in CM so far, I've got rank 5 coup, rank 2 mobility, rank 2 surge, rank 2 wspec, rank 1 smastery, rank 1 spunch, rank 1 toughness.

I love it. Especially coup.

[Kitsun]

How does coup work with ranged?

I can either do it open-handed or if I grab an arrow, I actually get the +10 off my WSPEC arrow training, haha.

[SolitareConfinement]

Rogue, 94, Archer:

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Shadow Mastery smastery 5
Disarm Weapon disarm 3
Specialization I wspec1 5
Surge of Strength surge 5
Cutthroat cutthroat 2

Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 2


pretty simple really...i went to rank 5 with my wspec because a lot of the cheapshots can use an arrow for it...such as against a siren with a 430 some odd ranged DS. kneebash, then aim for the eye and its done for

[Kitsun]

I didn't realize there were this many near-capped and capped rogues posting here.

I did my wspec arrows because I'm an AS greedy whore.

[Fallen]

I didn't realize there were this many near-capped and capped rogues posting here.

I did my wspec arrows because I'm an AS greedy whore.

It is a damn expensive skill though, 10 CMAN points for +2 AS and +2 Maneuver attack points.

I think optimal for a Shild using Paladin at cap is:

Rank 5 Disarm
Rank 5 Feint
Rank 5 Surge (Less if you have enhancives)
Rank 4 Weapon Spec
Rank 5 Shield Charge (with 2 ranks of Shield bash)

That leaves you with 2 CMAN points left over. Pretty effective build.

[Asha]

didnt know you could kneebash a siren that has none.
unless im mistaking them for csetairi

[Hips]

54 ranger:

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Shadow Mastery smastery 5
Dirtkick dirtkick 2

If I actually played prime still I'd be working on getting dirtkick up, and then who knows. Kinda busy with plat though.

[ElvenFury]

Lvl 49 warrior, your Combat Maneuver training is as

Disarm Weapon 3
Feint 4
Berserk 5
Specialization 5
Combat Mobility 1
Combat Toughness 1
Parry Mastery 2

I've been hunting a lot of non-corps the past 10 levels, so I untrained my knockdown. I'll probably pick it up again when I move on. Also, I don't do the guild, although I really should.

[Sharnath]

75 ranger

Sharnath, your Combat Maneuver training is as follows:

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Shadow Mastery smastery 5
Disarm Weapon disarm 3

Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 10


Sharnath
Weed Mage

[Danical]

Gnimble lvl 100 bard

>cman info
Gnimble, your Combat Maneuver training is as follows:

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Combat Focus focus 5
Sweep sweep 3
Feint feint 5
Charge charge 5
Cheapshots cheapshots 4

Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 11

I use exactly zero of them except Focus. They're all for defensive purposes.

[Asha]

I would absolutely anything to be able to train in charge. Sigh.

[Kitsun]

I imagine casting is a bijillion times more effective for semis than CMANS are. Soft RT, short RTs, better effects.

[Fallen]

I would absolutely anything to be able to train in charge. Sigh.

I want Side by Side, but alas.

[SolitareConfinement]

didnt know you could kneebash a siren that has none.
unless im mistaking them for csetairi

i guess you must be because:


>cheap knee
You come out of hiding.
[Roll result: 103 (open d100: 15) Bonus: 20]
You seize an opening and bring the blunt end of your arrow down on a siren's knee!
The siren crashes to the ground, clutching its knee!
Roundtime: 5 sec.

[Mtenda]

How long does the morale bonus from coup last?

[Kitsun]

I want Side by Side, but alas.

I want Side by Side to get transformed into Battle Formation and given to everyone!

[ElvenFury]

How long does the morale bonus from coup last?

I vaguely recall it being about 60 seconds, but it's been a while since I played with it.

[AKOE!]

>cman info
Akoe, your Combat Maneuver training is as follows:

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Shadow Mastery smastery 5

whoo hoo!

[Kitsun]

How long does the morale bonus from coup last?

It is really endroll dependant. I never actually bothered to time the durations since I tend to be busy finding stuff to kill when I fire one off.

[Back]

It is a damn expensive skill though, 10 CMAN points for +2 AS and +2 Maneuver attack points.

I think optimal for a Shild using Paladin at cap is:

Rank 5 Disarm
Rank 5 Feint
Rank 5 Surge (Less if you have enhancives)
Rank 4 Weapon Spec
Rank 5 Shield Charge (with 2 ranks of Shield bash)

That leaves you with 2 CMAN points left over. Pretty effective build.

I was just reviewing my choices and was looking over this build. One reason I chose Shield Bash is there is no failure other than a miss.

Is 5 ranks of Shield Charge (54 points. 45+9 for 2 ranks of sbash) really worth it vs. 5 ranks of Shield Bash (45 points)?

[Danical]

Shield Charge is significantly better than shield bash. It puts them in substantial RT (around 20 seconds IIRC, like pole charge), stance force, pretty awesome crits, and as a paladin you can have spike and 1608 flares on your charge.

It does take 7 seconds to do though, and that's a pretty god damn long time in some hunting areas. If you miss, well, you could get fucked for it just like pole charge.

I still find feint to be one of the all time badass maneuvers.

If I was a paladin - I'd get wspec at 5 and feint at 5 and use the rest of the points purely for defense. I'd use a haste imbed for 1 RT feints and then aim to the head with a morning star - dead creature for sure.

[thefarmer]

Wspec5 isn't worth it to me. Just like surge 5.

75, 2H, Paladin

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Combat Movement cmovement 2
Feint feint 4
Precision precision 2
Specialization I wspec1 3
Side by Side sidebyside 1
Surge of Strength surge 4
Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 2

Combat Maneuvers...................| 199 99

Less CM training than typical because I bumped up PF for the rift.

[Back]

I thought sbash did all that also.

Description: With the Shield Bash maneuver, you attempt to whallop your target with your shield. The damage it causes tends to be very minor--but you can knock your target down, stun it and/or force it to a higher stance.

It seems sbash does have a failure other than just missing.

You lunge forward at a bog wight with your vultite aegis and attempt a shield bash!
[Roll result: -124 (open d100: -140) Penalties: 5]
Your attempt to bash fails miserably. Instead, you've managed to bang yourself in the head! Self-inflicted blow leaves you reeling about in excruciating pain!
Roundtime: 5 sec.

It was only 2 points of damage, no wounds. Better than being on the ground though.

[DoctorUnne]

It is really endroll dependant. I never actually bothered to time the durations since I tend to be busy finding stuff to kill when I fire one off.

I don't think the duration depends on the endroll, just the bonus does. It is approximately 60 seconds regardless. And if it does the variability is very very small. I use coup multiple times every hunt and frequently get endrolls ranging from 101 to 250. The fact that I haven't noticed a difference in duration means there either isn't one or it's very small.

Now the group AS bonus does depend heavily on endroll. The formula is (endroll - 100) / 3 but it's got a floor of 10 and a cap of 40. So getting an endroll any higher than 220 doesn't help.

[Fallen]

Still, +40 for a minute is pretty awesome. Is it refreshable?

[Danical]

I thought sbash did all that also.

Description: With the Shield Bash maneuver, you attempt to whallop your target with your shield. The damage it causes tends to be very minor--but you can knock your target down, stun it and/or force it to a higher stance.

It seems sbash does have a failure other than just missing.

You lunge forward at a bog wight with your vultite aegis and attempt a shield bash!
[Roll result: -124 (open d100: -140) Penalties: 5]
Your attempt to bash fails miserably. Instead, you've managed to bang yourself in the head! Self-inflicted blow leaves you reeling about in excruciating pain!
Roundtime: 5 sec.

It was only 2 points of damage, no wounds. Better than being on the ground though.

Sbash does stance force, have crits, flarable, and force RT but nowhere even close to that of Scharge.

Sbash very very very rarely forces stance but shield charge does on a regular basis.

I used Scharge with my 3x tower shield using warrior. I used it on casters and wtfpwn'd them. However, it still faster for me to feint and aim for the head/eye depending on the weapon I'm using.

[Danical]

Wspec5 isn't worth it to me. Just like surge 5.

75, 2H, Paladin

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Combat Movement cmovement 2
Feint feint 4
Precision precision 2
Specialization I wspec1 3
Side by Side sidebyside 1
Surge of Strength surge 4
Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 2

Combat Maneuvers...................| 199 99

Less CM training than typical because I bumped up PF for the rift.

I figure I'll see more benefit for the 15 points I plunk down on Wspec5 than picking up a rank or two of something I won't use. But if you're strapped for points then yeah, saving 15 is a good idea but I was a 2x CM warrior so I had spare points.

[Fallen]

The list I came up with uses all but 2 points at cap. Pretty efficient.

[Back]

Sbash does stance force, have crits, flarable, and force RT but nowhere even close to that of Scharge.

Sbash very very very rarely forces stance but shield charge does on a regular basis.

I used Scharge with my 3x tower shield using warrior. I used it on casters and wtfpwn'd them. However, it still faster for me to feint and aim for the head/eye depending on the weapon I'm using.

Yeah, scharge must be better if you need 2 ranks of sbash just to start. Why would they make it that way if it wasn’t better?

My biggest problem though is non-corporeal casters which makes me think feint is a must and maybe adding Combat Focus for extra TD. Well, that, and almost everyone in this thread has Feint.

[Fallen]

Yeah, scharge must be better if you need 2 ranks of sbash just to start. Why would they make it that way if it wasn’t better?

My biggest problem though is non-corporeal casters which makes me think feint is a must and maybe adding Combat Focus for extra TD. Well, that, and almost everyone in this thread has Feint.

If you bless your shield and do a shield charge it sounds like you can put them into a ton of RT.

[Back]

If you bless your shield and do a shield charge it sounds like you can put them into a ton of RT.

You need to bless your shield with sbash also. But it still does not work against non-corporeal. Does scharge?

[Danical]

non-corp really suck for physical fighters; quite a number of maneuvers don't work well on them.

Your best bet is feint. It's really sad the designers of CMans didn't really think them out that well. HO HUM

[The Ponzzz]

Capped rogue, 1.5x CMAN. TWC, thrown/OHE.

Shadow Mastery smastery 5
Dirtkick dirtkick 5
Feint feint 2
Hamstring hamstring 4
Groin Kick gkick 5
Disarm Weapon disarm 2
Combat Mobility mobility 2
Surge of Strength surge 4

However, once I'm 2x CM, this list will change a lot.

[Fallen]

I was way, way off on my Paladin idea. You need to bring two of the rank 5 skills down to rank 4 to get rank 5 of Shield Charge. Still think it is worth it, though:

Rank 5 Disarm 45
Rank 5 Feint 39
Rank 4 Wspec 30
Rank 4 Surge 30
Rank 2 Sbash 9
Rank 5 Scharge 45

Costs like 198, 4 points left over.

[Back]

I was way, way off on my Paladin idea. You need to bring two of the rank 5 skills down to rank 4 to get rank 5 of Shield Charge. Still think it is worth it, though:

Rank 5 Disarm 45
Rank 5 Feint 39
Rank 4 Wspec 30
Rank 4 Surge 30
Rank 2 Sbash 9
Rank 5 Scharge 45

Costs like 198, 4 points left over.

Not waaaay off. At level 34 I’m looking at it this way as an undead only sword/board hunter.

Rank 5 Feint 39 - for non-corp
Rank 5 Sbash 45 - for corp
Rank 5 Wspec 45 - for stupid paladin AS plus bonus to CML attack/defense
Rank 5 Surge 45 - for stupid paladin Strength bonus
Rank 3 Combat Focus 18 - every extra TD helps

leaving 10 points for two ranks of True Hand maybe.

[Fallen]

Just get a blessable shield you mook.

[Back]

Just get a blessable shield you mook.

Does scharge not need a bless against undead and does it work on non-corp?

[Danical]

as far as I know, Sbash and Scharge won't work on non-corp. Same with sweep, charge, hamstring, bullrush, tackle, etc.

Against non-corp, you're left with feint really.

[Fallen]

Ah, my bad. That's stupid if that is the case. You have a blessed weapon that can strike the creature, why not blessed armor?

[Back]

as far as I know, Sbash and Scharge won't work on non-corp. Same with sweep, charge, hamstring, bullrush, tackle, etc.

Against non-corp, you're left with feint really.

Thats what I thought. My revision to Fallen’s capped pally build is undead hunting only.

The extra 10 points might even be better spent on 2 ranks of Combat Movement (+4 DS for 7 points) leaving 3 points for perhaps 1 rank of True Hand.

Leaving 0 points.

[Back]

Ah, my bad. That's stupid if that is the case. You have a blessed weapon that can strike the creature, why not blessed armor?

I wonder the same. I can knock down a non-corp down with straight combat leg crits, using symbol of submission (knees), 1614 and 1615 (knees) but can’t hit them with sbash.

[Back]

With a blessed shield...

A faint aura of holy light radiates from the aegis.


Against corp undead.


You are now in an offensive stance.
>
You lunge forward at a frenzied monk with your vultite aegis and attempt a shield bash!
[Roll result: 125 (open d100: 40) Penalties: 5]
Sharp bash and a frenzied monk is knocked over by the blow.
... 7 points of damage!
Torn muscle in the frenzied monk's left leg!
Roundtime: 5 sec.


Against non-corp undead.


You are now in an offensive stance.
>
You lunge forward at a tree spirit with your vultite aegis and attempt a shield bash!

The vultite aegis catches nothing but air. The tree spirit does not look amused by the spectacle.


But against non-corp I can do this.


You gesture at a tree spirit.
CS: +151 - TD: +78 + CvA: +25 + d100: +20 == +118
Warding failed!
A tree spirit appears to be overwhelmed by some burdening force.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>
The spirit whispers with a sinister voice carried on the wind!
A tree spirit gestures at you!
CS: +146 - TD: +121 + CvA: -8 + d100: +43 - -5 == +65
Warded off!
>
You motion forcefully as you confidently call on your patron in the invocation for Divine Strike...
Your spell is ready.
>
You gesture at a tree spirit.
A pillar of gold and topaz radiance manifests around a tree spirit.
CS: +151 - TD: +78 + CvA: +25 + d100: +22 == +120
Warding failed!
Waves of sacred energy tear through the tree spirit's body!
... 20 points of damage!
... 20 points of damage!
Smash to the chest!
Good thing there were no ribs there to shatter.
The tree spirit is driven to its knees!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>
You feel the power of the symbol project toward a tree spirit.
The tree spirit tries to resist you but fails.
The spirit bows to you in submission.
>
You are now in an offensive stance.
>
You swing a pure white steel handaxe at a tree spirit!
AS: +241 vs DS: +44 with AvD: +32 + d100 roll: +23 = +252
... and hit for 68 points of damage!
Quick strike to the right leg!
The tree spirit makes no bones about it.
The tree spirit is knocked to the ground!
Roundtime: 5 sec.

[ZeP]

Regarding the knees thing, be careful what you wish for.. right now it seems like anything can be forced to its knees. A worm, a wasp, a snake, etc.

[graysun]

83rd sword/board ranger:

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Shadow Mastery smastery 5
Disarm Weapon disarm 4

Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 5

[droit]

Capped pure/archer ranger:
Disarm Weapon disarm 5
Sweep sweep 5

However, before my fixskills from an ohe ambusher, I had
Disarm 5
Sweep 5
Shadow Mastery 5

..and I was using my remaining points to play around with dirtkick, garrote, shield bash and sidebyside. I didn't particularly like any of those, though.

Ranger CMANs suck. :(

[TheLastShamurai]

Capped pure/archer ranger:
Disarm Weapon disarm 5
Sweep sweep 5

However, before my fixskills from an ohe ambusher, I had
Disarm 5
Sweep 5
Shadow Mastery 5

..and I was using my remaining points to play around with dirtkick, garrote, shield bash and sidebyside. I didn't particularly like any of those, though.

Ranger CMANs suck. :(


I'd kill for sweep.

And I thought half the fun of being ranged is that you could hold your bow in the left hand and they would disarm you arrow?

[droit]

They would if I bothered to hold an arrow in my hand. It's kind of a pain in the ass.

Really, though, disarm defense is important because it's one of the maneuvers that inflicts the most RT in the temple, not just as a means to protect my weapon.

[Stunseed]

I don't get more than five seconds, unless it's an open roll from disarm. Charge is another matter, though.

[Asha]

Disarm annihilates me with RT. I never got how simply having an arrow knocked from my hand could equate to me standing there for 19 seconds just open to anything lol.
Charge is BY FAR the most fucking instant death thing in the temple for me.
If I don't land on MY EYEBALL and die instantly, then the RT will see to it.

[Stunseed]

Heh, I don't understand at nearly 1.5x in CM how a defender has a 60% chance to charge me. Radicals are a little worse off, but still. I picked up a set of flaring hauberk to use, so those mstrikes are pretty fun.

[Nuc]

As a ranger I don't see the benefit of sweep with so many other knockdown options. Maybe its because I'm not capped. Beyond disarm and feint, the only thing that might make sense is side by side (which I haven't done a lot of testing with, but it sounds like its pretty sick with the right group).

[Fallen]

As a ranger I don't see the benefit of sweep with so many other knockdown options. Maybe its because I'm not capped. Beyond disarm and feint, the only thing that might make sense is side by side (which I haven't done a lot of testing with, but it sounds like its pretty sick with the right group).

Basically, it is about getting to 2x CM for the general defensive benefits, then choosing what to do with those points that are actually useful.

[GSWanted]

70 - Dwarven Paladin

your Combat Maneuver training is as follows:

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Combat Mastery cmastery 1
Feint feint 5
Specialization I wspec1 4
Surge of Strength surge 4

Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 4



(at level 70), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 242 142
Shield Use.........................| 242 142
Combat Maneuvers...................| 206 106
Blunt Weapons......................| 242 142
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 120 30
Physical Fitness...................| 242 142
Arcane Symbols.....................| 70 15
Magic Item Use.....................| 70 15
Harness Power......................| 170 70
Spirit Mana Control................| 102 24
Spiritual Lore - Blessings.........| 154 54
Perception.........................| 105 25
Climbing...........................| 140 40
Swimming...........................| 140 40

[ceran]

Ranger at 91 OHE Ambusher:


Combat Movement cmovement 2
Shadow Mastery smastery 5
Disarm Weapon disarm 4
Sweep sweep 4
Feint feint 3
Side by Side sidebyside 1

[waywardgs]

62 Rogue

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Disarm Weapon disarm 5
Hamstring hamstring 3
Specialization I wspec1 2
Sucker Punch spunch 2
Combat Mobility mobility 2
Surge of Strength surge 3

Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 2

Mobility has saved me plenty of times, 100% chance of jumping up while prone and in RT before an attack.

Mastered disarm because I don't want to lose weapons. Oh, and open handed disarm is just plain cool.

Spunch is fun with flaring weapons/greaves, only takes 3 seconds, chance to stun, stance drop.

Thinking about shadow mastery to make solo hunts go a little quicker. I also solo ambush in warcamps, so that might make things a little easier- less time for those damn guards to pull me out of hiding before I can ambush.

Also considering crowd press, as I wield daggers. Any thoughts on crowd press? How much of an advantage does it actually give you?

[Fallen]

>>>Also considering crowd press, as I wield daggers. Any thoughts on crowd press? How much of an advantage does it actually give you? >>

I've heard it is nice, but too stamina intensive to be worthwhile.

[DoctorUnne]

Still, +40 for a minute is pretty awesome. Is it refreshable?

Yes. Also you always get the benefit from the best coup since the bonus started, so if you coup with an endroll of 250 and get +40 AS, and then thirty seconds later coup again with an endroll of 101 that would normally give +10 AS, the timer refreshes but you keep the +40 AS from your first coup.

[droit]

I don't get more than five seconds, unless it's an open roll from disarm.

...because you have 4 ranks of disarm. That's exactly my point.

[Back]

as far as I know, Sbash and Scharge won't work on non-corp. Same with sweep, charge, hamstring, bullrush, tackle, etc.

Against non-corp, you're left with feint really.

I’ve been converted to Feint from Shield Bash. Cheaper cman point cost to learn, less RT, less stam cost, no need for a bless, and works on both corporeal and non-corporeal just as effectively.

[Danical]

Feint is your bread and butter as a paladin/warrior because you can stack up to +20 on it with wspec and bonding.

It's also ridiculously cheap and simply awesome. I wish there were other alternatives to feint but there aren't any that come close to it.

[Back]

sbash was cool http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTXlWYdodnc but feint is all around better

[Tea & Strumpets]

As a capped ambushing ranger, I went 5 ranks of shadow mastery, 5 ranks disarm, and 4 ranks of sweep. I don't think the 15 cman points is worth it for the fifth rank of sweep since the only higher level characters that currently use it are scouts (and I assume something in the Grimswarm camps). Even with 4 ranks as an ambushing ranger (as opposed to one a bow user who might not have many combat maneuver ranks) you are pretty much immune to every sweep but open rolls.

I don't really use any of them (CMANS) offensively since GS4, unless I'm goofing off with player characters.

[droit]

Triton executioners and Grimswarm both sweep, so it's present in every capped hunting ground.

[Tea & Strumpets]

Triton executioners and Grimswarm both sweep, so it's present in every capped hunting ground.

They aren't really a threat, and with 4 ranks as an OHE ambusher they can't sweep me without an open roll.

[droit]

Sure. I wasn't commenting on whether or not the last rank was necessary; rather, I was correcting your statement that scouts were the only high level creature that used sweep.

[m444w]

Ondreian, your Combat Maneuver training is as follows:

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Combat Movement cmovement 2
Disarm Weapon disarm 5
Hamstring hamstring 3
Side by Side sidebyside 3
Sucker Punch spunch 1
Coup de Grace coupdegrace 2

going to get more coup and probably one more hamstring soon.

I'm obviously not 2x in cmans, but 3x dodge and ewave are 10x better than that, I feel.

[Fallen]

When the HELL do you use Side by Side?

[m444w]

there are about three of us that use it when we grimswarm together

[droit]

how much AS do you get?

[m444w]

dunno, It's nothing amazing... but... it was just for fun really, I don't have really much use for any cmans besides disarm and hamstring.

[thefarmer]

I used sideby side with the farmer's wife. We both had it.

I also used it when I warcamped when GoS was released with the 20+ people groups.

[Loyrl]

63 warrior 2hw


Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Specialization II wspec2 5
Weapon Bonding bonding 5
Combat Mobility mobility 1
Combat Toughness toughness 1
Surge of Strength surge 5
Parry Mastery pmastery 3

Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 5

[Swami71]

202 CMAN Rogue

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Disarm Weapon disarm 5
Feint feint 5
Precision precision 2
Specialization I wspec1 5
Truehand truehand 5
Surge of Strength surge 5
Evade Mastery emastery 3

Big fan of the Truehand 60 AS and -50% EBP. Still have 21 points I'm not sure what to do with. Thinking of doing 2 ranks cmov and 4 ranks sidebyside that I'll probably never use.

[TheLastShamurai]

Do you get a lot of use out of Truehand? The only thing I think I could use it on are turtled grimswarm {shaman tasks} and dueling {which I don't even do}. And for the turtled grim I can usually just disarm them and it will lower their DS enough to kill.

[Swami71]

Do you get a lot of use out of Truehand? The only thing I think I could use it on are turtled grimswarm {shaman tasks} and dueling {which I don't even do}. And for the turtled grim I can usually just disarm them and it will lower their DS enough to kill.

I'd rather just do truehand right off the bat then spend the extra time setting them up. That and its just really nice to have that big of a boost when you want it. Mstrike and truehand is what I'm liking right now. Feint/sweep or ewave then attack just takes to long for my liking (played a sorcerer for-ev-er).

Also playing around with the precision though I might get rid of that. Going to see if one damage type is better than another in the temple.

[Bhuryn]

I was playing with bullrush. It's effective (for a ~375 pound giantman) but lacks the whomp of shield bash. I'm working on putting my shield bash back to 4 then I'll either max that or feint.

Shield Bash sbash 2
Disarm Weapon disarm 2
Feint feint 4
Specialization I wspec1 1
Bull Rush bullrush 4

Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 5
Unlearning Combat Maneuver Training Points: 5

AT 100 I plan on being:

Wspec4
Feint5
Shield Bash5
Surge1
Disarm3

and I will have 18 points and 357 ptp/317 mtp left over if I need more

[Bhuryn]

Do you get a lot of use out of Truehand? The only thing I think I could use it on are turtled grimswarm {shaman tasks} and dueling {which I don't even do}. And for the turtled grim I can usually just disarm them and it will lower their DS enough to kill.

Only time I liked TH was when I used a claid for a short while.

[Gibreficul]

Yes, actually. Dirtkick is a sort of special cman. In my experience, at least, it uses a flat level-to-level comparison at any rank to see if it works, while training in more ranks of dirtkick gets you better benefits. That is, it's as successful at one rank as five, but five will reduce the target's AS, EBP, and perception more.

Um, dirtkick works the same way as any other cman. It's not "as effective" at rank 2 as rank 5. I think you need to provide a rank-by-rank comparison for us to prove otherwise as your observations seem to be swayed toward what you want to believe. I don't have the time to test and disprove you. That said.... Gib, capped rogue.

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Combat Focus focus 4
Shadow Mastery smastery 4
Dirtkick dirtkick 5
Disarm Weapon disarm 3
Feint feint 5
Precision precision 1
Specialization I wspec1 4
Combat Mobility mobility 2
Surge of Strength surge 5
Cutthroat cutthroat 5

YAY!


GIBREFICUL

[Stanley Burrell]

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Berserk berserk 5
Specialization I wspec1 5
Specialization II wspec2 5
Weapon Bonding bonding 5
Truehand truehand 3
Surge of Strength surge 5
Evade Mastery emastery 1

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Slash Protection slash 5

You are a Master of Warrior Tricks.

You are a Master of Tackle.

[thefarmer]

Um, dirtkick works the same way as any other cman. It's not "as effective" at rank 2 as rank 5.

That's what he said.



That is, it's as successful at one rank as five, but five will reduce the target's AS, EBP, and perception more.

[Drunken Durfin]

You are a Master of Warrior Tricks.

You are a Master of Tackle.

Slacker...finish your guild training!

[Stunseed]

Slacker...finish your guild training!

No kidding. I can't get enough experience to get off of the guildwall, damnit.

[graysun]

88th Ranger w/ 90 ranks CM

5 Shadow Mastery
4 Disarm Weapon

Will get 5th rank Disarm at 93rd, then not much of a plan for CMs for a while.

[AKOE!]

So far....at lvl 59
5 ranks of disarm
2 ranks of sweep

At cap(hopefully)
5 ranks of disarm
4 ranks of sweep
5 ranks of feint

[AKOE!]

Slacker...finish your guild training!


At the ranger's guild our training consists of how to not spill your ale while passed out drunk in a tree.

:wtf:

[AnticorRifling]

Lvl 66 mage:

Anticor, your Combat Maneuver training is as follows:

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Disarm Weapon disarm 2
Feint feint 5

Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 2

[Stanley Burrell]

Slacker...finish your guild training!

Whoops! I just posted those two because they have their CMAN clones (sattack, tackle, feint and sperf.)

Sir, yes sir!

[TheLastShamurai]

Paladin, 100, 201 cman.

Shield Bash 2
Shield Charge 3
Disarm Weapon 2
Feint 5
Charge 3
Specialization I 5
Combat Toughness 1
Bull Rush 2
Surge of Strength 5

[droit]

You lose for not getting the 202nd rank of CM.

[TheLastShamurai]

You lose for not getting the 202nd rank of CM.

I'm working on it.

Not that it's really going to do me any good.

[droit]

Yeah, that last rank is like a vestigial appendage. It doesn't really do anything, and yet there's a certain comfort in fondling it late at night.

Edit: I blame the Monty Python clip I was just watching for that weird and somewhat creepy analogy.

[thefarmer]

http://missinguniversemuseum.com/vestigial.jpg

[4a6c1]

I am officially stalking this thread so it will marry me.

(you people are going to help me with my cmans, thnx)

[AKOE!]

Yeah, that last rank is like a vestigial appendage. It doesn't really do anything, and yet there's a certain comfort in fondling it late at night.

Edit: I blame the Monty Python clip I was just watching for that weird and somewhat creepy analogy.


eeew! :)