Magical based Ranger

[Tumbadoo]

I've been thinking about how viable a ranger could be if he focused on magic and forwent any melee or ranged offense/defense. This would I suppose be a more druid type character. No shield, no melee or ranged, and totally focused on ranger spells and spiritual spells to kill and survive.

What do other rangers think? Has someone out there tried this already, if so to what results? What kind of suggestions would people offer to make such a character work? What would the training plan look like? What would tactics look like? What equipment would be required?

[zhelas]

Think this has been done by someone, but they were post cap.

[Stunseed]

Yeah, you would definately want to wait for a while. Bards can do it with a CS based spell, but the Ranger doesn't really have that.

If you wanted to do the "Druid" thing, you could go with blunts and get a cudgel/quarterstaff. I wouldn't until later in life, though.

[Soulpieced]

It's quite simple post-cap to optimize spikethorn, but I'd highly advise against forgoing core skills like shield use, armor, and weapons. Runestaffs = bad idea.

[Danical]

Since Spike Thorn really only relies on level comparisons, you don't need to load up on spells to get CS, unless you plan on using 635.

I would 1x Summoning, 2x Shield, 2x HP (you'll definitely need the mana).

If you're going for the druid thing, get an enhancive wooden shield and enhancive cudgel. As, SP said, runestaves are a really bad idea.

[zhelas]

Definately getting a minimum of 8 magical ranks per level would be tough for a ranger to carry a runestaff.

[graysun]

The problem with making a magic-only ranger is that our primary attack spell is so mana intensive. Even a capped ranger with 300 mana will run out pretty quickly - sort of like a 15th-level wizard does.

If you decide to try it, I would strongly recommend training in some sort of weapon skill so you can finish off critters that have survived multiple spikethorns. Even then, it may not be a viable build until the later levels - and will definitely limit what you can or cannot hunt.

[Stunseed]

I wish Burst would damage with a high end-roll.

[zhelas]

Not to move from the "Nature" But if one wanted, they could roll up a Cleric and RP them as a Druid. With smite they could use Bane instead. Carry that twig of a rune staff. Dress like a Druid would. It would be easier for them.

I have seen Empaths and Sorcerers dress like Rangers since they carry bows.

[Tumbadoo]

Good feedback, and quick, as I knew it would be, as these boards always are. Lets assume I'm at cap already. I know it's not a great but would would be needed for spell ranks, lores, and such. I think 2x HP would put it at around 400 maybe, and wracking would be another 400. What would be the DS with a runestaff at cap, with say 1x MIU and AS and roughly 100 spell ranks? Would spell aiming be viable, I know it's only 1x but other classes can be successful with 1x in a weapon, why couldn't it be the same for 1x spell aiming?

Come on experts, how do I make it happen!

[Stunseed]

1x spell aim + 117 + col signs is going to get you near a 325 or so bolt AS, abouts.

2x HP
1x MIU
1x AS
1x Lores
2x Spells
1x Spell Aim

Doing so will give you the 8 ranks of magical skills.

I would try my damnest to 2x dodge to create some natural DS, but with enough spells you could try to not get hit. No CM, however and at cap you're going to be some Ithzir's bitch, or a Triton's fishstick.

[Danical]

DO NOT USE A RUNESTAFF.

You won't even come close to the DS you'll get from pretty much any other combo.

[Drew]

People have tried the runestaff way before with a ranger, no one has succeeded.

[Mtenda]

Been a while but doesen't spikethorn kill on first cast with a very high frequency if the critter is already prone?

[Drew]

Been a while but doesen't spikethorn kill on first cast with a very high frequency if the critter is already prone?

No but it'll do a lot of damage. Your chances of killing are better when they are prone though.

[BriarFox]

If I were to go the druid route, I think I'd train in ranged weapons (with maybe 40 ranks of perception, no ambush), and use a bow for DS. You could also use it as a backup/complementary attack.

[BriarFox]

No but it'll do a lot of damage. Your chances of killing are better when they are prone though.

True ... I'd think about training in Sweep, too, to prone things before you spike them. I used to hunt shrickhen in the tower with only sweep and thorn.

[Danical]

Apparently, if you don't prone the creature, the shots will only strike the legs. Once the creature is prone, it will now attack the rest of the body.

Obviously, since these are puncture crits, if it hits the eyes, there's a damn good chance the creature will die.

I haven't figured on if the crit location frequency is the same as what I found using 1030 (or any untargeted spell for that matter).

[m444w]

use 110 as a set-up, then spikethorn.. And don't use a runestaff, a quarter-staff and 2handers might be good for the look and DS, but I forget how many TPs that costs for a ranger.

[BriarFox]

use 110 as a set-up, then spikethorn.. And don't use a runestaff, a quarter-staff and 2handers might be good for the look and DS, but I forget how many TPs that costs for a ranger.

The problem is that Ranger MnS is almost never enough to ward like-level foes. Maybe if you were fully 2x in spells, but that's 51 MTPs/level.

[Izzy]

Apparently, if you don't prone the creature, the shots will only strike the legs. Once the creature is prone, it will now attack the rest of the body.

Obviously, since these are puncture crits, if it hits the eyes, there's a damn good chance the creature will die.

I haven't figured on if the crit location frequency is the same as what I found using 1030 (or any untargeted spell for that matter).

Luckily puncture crits to the legs leads to a fairly decent chance of knocking them down in the first few strikes, allowing subsequent attack cycles a chance at squishy eyes. Summoning lore ftmfw.


The problem is that Ranger MnS is almost never enough to ward like-level foes. Maybe if you were fully 2x in spells, but that's 51 MTPs/level.

Yeah. 610 is a better setup anyway. While slower, it has multiple chances to succeed and carries on to new targets.

[Cap'nDrak]

If I were going to do this... then maybe train in THW? find yourself one of those "a translucent vultite quarterstaff" the 5x Uber-crit weighted one. Wet noodle, but at least you might have better chances for parry DS. *shrugs* I tried to make that work once for someone, and never actually got to test it out completely. A disabler CMAN would also be good. Like Trip.

Just my penny and a half.

Oh, and definately carry some alchemy potions for mana.

[Tumbadoo]

Which alchemy potion replenishes mana?

[Danical]

Luckily puncture crits to the legs leads to a fairly decent chance of knocking them down in the first few strikes, allowing subsequent attack cycles a chance at squishy eyes. Summoning lore ftmfw.

Yes and No.

A rank 2 puncture knocks them down and doesn't stun but a rank 3 puncture does neither.

It's weird.

[Trouble]

I did a full 1x in Ranger spells with an additional 40 in Minors and I could usually kill ithzir in 1-2 casts. But rememeber that at cap, you need to kill a ton and a half of ithzir to fry. I wasn't CoL so I'd run out of mana well before I fried by the time I hit cap if I exclusively spell hunted. My 635 was awesome and would kill most lower ithzir in one shot but using it is dangerous.

The real problem would be getting enough DS. I had a full 1x in dodge, brawl, and ranger spells so I had a pretty good defense, even open-handed (I also had outside spells). I didn't need any CM since I usually put my bow away whenever I ran across Janissaries. I eventually picked up some though for the heck of it.

I'd use 610 as a setup instead of 110, because as mentioned, our minor CS blows. I also made ewave embeddables but I hardly ever remembered to use them.

I forget if spike or weed works on griffins. I know 635 does.

[droit]

That sounds like my eventual plan. I have 30 MnS/71 Ranger spells right now, but once I finish CM and ambush, I'll be taking ranger spells up to 100. One advantage I'll have is sigil of power. With it, 2x PT and a few stamina enhancives, I can extend hunts as long as I need to, even when using spike thorn exclusively. It's how I hunt anything undead.

Whether this is viable pre-cap is doubtful.

[Fallen]

125 is an option as well, especially with 80 ranks of lore. Use Tangleweed to keep the creature pinned and Call Lightning to kill them off. Spikethorn and Nature's Fury to keep everything else at bay.

[BriarFox]

125 is an option as well, especially with 80 ranks of lore. Use Tangleweed to keep the creature pinned and Call Lightning to kill them off. Spikethorn and Nature's Fury to keep everything else at bay.

It'd be extremely mana intensive, but it's interesting. 619 would be better, except that most capped creatures are immune to it. Most rangers tend to stop at 40 ranks of summoning lore, if they go that far, and, sadly, we can only 1x. There are quickly diminishing returns after that. An ultra-fast 125 and a crossrealms locate would be nice, though.

[Tumbadoo]

I like the 2 handed weapon idea. A quarterstaff would fit into my idea for this idea while providing a decent balance of defense and attack power (both physical and magical). So after some toying around with Tsoran's builder I've come up with this.

Armor use= 50 ranks. I am looking to use some crit padded leather breastplate. I'll add some greaves and maybe a helm for full coverage.

2 Handed Weapons = 137 ranks. With strength, phoens, and a pure pot I should be able to get to some where around 350, add 117 and we are over 400. If something is proned or stun then I should be able to finish it off.

Com Mans = 45 ranks. Enough to get 5 ranks in trip, then spike thorn for the win.

Multi-op = 5 ranks. Why not

Physical fitness = 101 ranks.

Dodge = 101 ranks.

Climb = 35 ranks

Swim = 50 ranks.

First aid = 25 ranks.

Survival = 25 ranks.

Symbols 50 ranks. For scrolls. I'll try to get as many AS boosting and DS boosting spells.

MIT 50 ranks. Wands.

Harnes Power = 202 ranks. Gonna need all the mana I can get.

Mana Spirit Control = 21 ranks.

Spells = I'm thinking of doing 63 ranks of MinSpir, this would put me somewhere around 403 CS strength for unbalance. I hoping this will be effective against most critters.
I'll also get 50 ranks in the ranger sphere.

Spirit Lore summong = 50 ranks.

So, who's go the fixskill they want to donate, the breastplate, and the quarterstaff (the wet noodle critted one)?

[Danical]

You won't be able to trip for shit with only 45 ranks in CMAN unless it's a less-level pure.

Get 1x Summoning, 1x CM, 2x THW.

Wands are for retards.

You'll want more than 1x in Ranger Spells given the following:

>Would a GM please tell us if ranger spell ranks play a role in determining the outcome of spike thorn? If so, what effect do they have and is the effect linear or are there diminishing returns? -Droit

I already mentioned it to Droit in reply to his email, but I thought it would be helpful to share with the rest of the class.

Ranger spell ranks do indeed factor into Spike Thorn's resolution. The bonus from spell ranks does not have diminishing returns, and there is no cap. I've updated the spell documentation to mention the factor.

-M.

[droit]

http://a4.vox.com/6a00c2251d19928e1d00e398cfebfc0004-500pi

[Mtenda]

I like the 2 handed weapon idea. A quarterstaff would fit into my idea for this idea while providing a decent balance of defense and attack power (both physical and magical). So after some toying around with Tsoran's builder I've come up with this.

Armor use= 50 ranks. I am looking to use some crit padded leather breastplate. I'll add some greaves and maybe a helm for full coverage.

2 Handed Weapons = 137 ranks. With strength, phoens, and a pure pot I should be able to get to some where around 350, add 117 and we are over 400. If something is proned or stun then I should be able to finish it off.

Com Mans = 45 ranks. Enough to get 5 ranks in trip, then spike thorn for the win.

Multi-op = 5 ranks. Why not

Physical fitness = 101 ranks.

Dodge = 101 ranks.

Climb = 35 ranks

Swim = 50 ranks.

First aid = 25 ranks.

Survival = 25 ranks.

Symbols 50 ranks. For scrolls. I'll try to get as many AS boosting and DS boosting spells.

MIT 50 ranks. Wands.

Harnes Power = 202 ranks. Gonna need all the mana I can get.

Mana Spirit Control = 21 ranks.

Spells = I'm thinking of doing 63 ranks of MinSpir, this would put me somewhere around 403 CS strength for unbalance. I hoping this will be effective against most critters.
I'll also get 50 ranks in the ranger sphere.

Spirit Lore summong = 50 ranks.

So, who's go the fixskill they want to donate, the breastplate, and the quarterstaff (the wet noodle critted one)?


If this were me I would concentrate on having a more powerful spikethorn via ranger ranks and lore. So, drop your MnS, raise your Ranger ranks, and forget 110 altogether if you have e-wave imbeds. Drop multi-opps, FA and survival. With that many ranks they really aren't gonna do anything great for you. Might as well bump up to 24 ranks of SMC. I'm assuming with MIU you mean wands for imbeds because you won't be able to use wands to attack.

[Tumbadoo]

Driot that response rocks. In the future please respond to any thread I create with that responce.

[BriarFox]

If you just want leather breastplate, don't get 50 armor ranks - that's for double chain. You'll need 20 or something. Also, every 10 ranks of SMC gives you +1 mana regen, and summonings gives spike thorn the potential for an extra damage cycle. I'd focus on Ranger spells, HP, SMC, SL-S, THW, dodging, and CM (for AS, trip, and other useful cmans).

I think you'd be fine with just the 45 ranks for Trip - 5, btw. Cmans are level-dependent in most cases ... or at least that's my experience.

[droit]

Heh. On a more constructive note, here's how I would train a pure ranger. Keep in mind these are end goals. The amount of TPs this would require is insane.

10 armor ranks for LBP
2x dodge
2x brawling for parry DS (cheaper than THW)
1x PT (though you won't be getting much redux)
2x HP
30 ranks SMC
50 ranks MIU
50 ranks AS
1x summoning lore
100 ranger spell ranks
30 minor spirit spell ranks
30 perception
30 climbing
50 swimming
Join CoL

[droit]

Actually, the TP investment isn't that horrible. I could probably swing it. The only real big sinks are 2x dodge and 2x HP and spells.

[Danical]

2x Shield?

[Mtenda]

130 isn't really a necessity and 1x SMC isn't a bad idea.

[thefarmer]

You're gonna need a higher AS if you're going to waste time with a quarterstaff.

Yes you can spike shit, but you're going to run out of mana quick.

[droit]

No shield. With 2x dodge and 100+ ranger ranks, his evade DS would be huge. Using a shield wouldn't be necessary, especially since a pure ranger can stay in defensive all the time, like a sorcerer. Also, empty hands make scroll reading much more viable.

1x SMC is definitely a good idea as it increases mana regen. 130 is useful to have not just for the spell, but also the extra MnS ranks will boost DS with spells like 102. Heck, far enough post cap and I'd even go for 140.

[Fallen]

Guarded. Every offensive spell forces you to guarded.

[droit]

Yes you can spike shit, but you're going to run out of mana quick.

As far as mana goes, 400 mana from 2x HP combined with mana enhancives and potions and sign of wracking (with a decent spirit regenerating race) will get you as far as you need to go.

[droit]

Right, guarded.

[Danical]

I would definitely run with 2x shield use since you're gaining more DS via shield ET and Ranks compared to the DS loss for using a shield.

[droit]

Damn, I wish the test server were available. I'd go test this build right now.

[Fallen]

Mana shouldn't be an issue anyway, as you can just have your companion kill everything for you. Isn't that right, Droit?

[Mtenda]

Don't have my spreadsheet handy at the moment. How doable would this be at cap?

LBP
1x dodge
1x brawl
1x shield
1x PT
1x CM
1x lore
1x SMC
2x HP
30 ranks MIU
30 ranks AS
200 ranger spells
30 ranks perception
30 ranks climb
50+ ranks swim

This would require you to meet MnS needs another way which is not difficult by any means. Sweep for setup. Forget the weapon and spike all the way.

[BriarFox]

At 83, I could do this, which might give you some idea of what's possible:

Armor - 8
Polearms - 170
Combat Man - 45
PT - 24
Dodging - 85
HP - 83
SMC - 30
MnS - 25 (for Call Lightning)
Ranger - 76
Summonings - 85
AS - 24
MIU - 24
Climbing - 30
Swimming - 30

[droit]

I would definitely run with 2x shield use since you're gaining more DS via shield ET and Ranks compared to the DS loss for using a shield.

Well, it would be ideal but uneccessary. His DS would be pretty high.

[droit]

Mana shouldn't be an issue anyway, as you can just have your companion kill everything for you. Isn't that right, Droit?

:rofl:

[thefarmer]

As far as mana goes, 400 mana from 2x HP combined with mana enhancives and potions and sign of wracking (with a decent spirit regenerating race) will get you as far as you need to go.

Eh, my point really was that you're not gonna kill anything with a quarterstaff, you're going to need to rely on spells. Even the translucent ones are shitty.

[Danical]

I'd probably go 2x Shield and 1x Dodge.

That second rank of Dodge is costing you 14/10! Just think of all the awesome you could get with that?!

[BriarFox]

I'd probably go 2x Shield and 1x Dodge.

That second rank of Dodge is costing you 14/10! Just think of all the awesome you could get with that?!

2x brawling, 1x dodge would probably give you an commensurate DS, and you wouldn't have to carry a shield around.

[Danical]

2x brawling, 1x dodge would probably give you an commensurate DS, and you wouldn't have to carry a shield around.

That brawling will be worth 42 DS in offensive at cap. A 10x shield alone will be 70 DS.

Get the shield.

[Mtenda]

How much does stance relate to the power of spikethorn?

[BriarFox]

Hrm. Druidic monk route would be possible, with Voln. Viable undead hunting most of the way up through Fu, and spells for anything and everything else.

2x brawling
1x dodge
2x HP
1x Summoning lore
1.3x spells
24 MIU
24 AS
24 PT
8 - Armor (doubles)

That'd give me 109 spell ranks at 83. Screw SMC - a few mana regening per pulse isn't worth the TP investment.

[BriarFox]

How much does stance relate to the power of spikethorn?

Anecdotally, I think it hits harder in offensive, but technically, it doesn't matter.

[Danical]

Hrm. Druidic monk route would be possible, with Voln. Viable undead hunting most of the way up through Fu, and spells for anything and everything else.

2x brawling
1x dodge
2x HP
1x Summoning lore
1.3x spells
24 MIU
24 AS
24 PT
8 - Armor (doubles)

That'd give me 109 spell ranks at 83. Screw SMC - a few mana regening per pulse isn't worth the TP investment.

You gonna get raped when forced into offensive which will absolutely happen since you have zero CM and shitty PT.

[BriarFox]

You gonna get raped when forced into offensive which will absolutely happen since you have zero CM and shitty PT.

Hrm. Good point. I'd probably drop HP to 1x and lores to .5x and use those points for CM and PT or such. I'd never actually do this build, but I'd love to test it.

[Danical]

Hrm. Good point. I'd probably drop HP to 1x and lores to .5x and use those points for CM and PT or such. I'd never actually do this build, but I'd love to test it.

So . . . why don't you just pick up 2x shield use and a god damn shield instead of hoping you won't be put in offensive with marginal CM and PT?

[Fallen]

Eh, he should just go either 1x Arcane Symbols or MIU and spell tank for DS.

[droit]

I think optimizing DS is somewhat irrelevant to the main idea, particularly since this is a hypothetical build with unlimited TPs.

A full 2x spells would be awesome. 202 ranger spell ranks would get you 114 DS from 613 and 204 dodging ranks from 618, though I'd probably go for 7 minor spirit ranks to get, besides the obvious, 106. And man, the CS would be crazy, reaching around 480ish (the best ranger CS in the lands right now is about 435-440).

[Danical]

I'm talking about going 2x Shield Use, 1x Dodge over 2x Dodge and no Shield use.

You'll net far more DS that way.

[Mtenda]

I think optimizing DS is somewhat irrelevant to the main idea, particularly since this is a hypothetical build with unlimited TPs.

A full 2x spells would be awesome. 202 ranger spell ranks would get you 114 DS from 613 and 204 dodging ranks from 618, though I'd probably go for 7 minor spirit ranks to get, besides the obvious, 106. And man, the CS would be crazy, reaching around 480ish (the best ranger CS in the lands right now is about 435-440).

This is what I'm screamin. I'd really like to know how powerful spikethorn can be with that many ranger spell ranks after the recent announcement of there being no cap on the benefits.

[Fallen]

Just because there is no cap doesn't mean there aren't diminishing returns.

[Celephais]

5000 MTP/PTP sound about right?

Go to town:
http://www.deadlylight.com/charactersheet/Ranger.html

[BriarFox]

Hrm. You know, with the fixskills coming out in a couple of months, someone with a lot of post-cap experience should get a fixskills potion (or use their unused fixskills, if they have one), use it, try out this druid build for a bit, and then fixskills back if it sucks.

Tempted to do it myself, even, just for shits and giggles. It'd work better with someone with post-cap TPs, though.

[droit]

Considering that I do 125 - 200+ damage per spike thorn with only 71 ranger ranks and 80 summoning lore, I imagine a 2x/1x thorn would be mind-blowing.

[Mtenda]

Just because there is no cap doesn't mean there aren't diminishing returns.

The announcement you posted says-

Ranger spell ranks do indeed factor into Spike Thorn's resolution. The bonus from spell ranks does not have diminishing returns, and there is no cap. I've updated the spell documentation to mention the factor.

[BriarFox]

5000 MTP/PTP sound about right?

Go to town:
http://www.deadlylight.com/charactersheet/Ranger.html

Oh, FUCK YEAH. You rock, man.

[thefarmer]

Just because there is no cap doesn't mean there aren't diminishing returns.

There isn't a cap, nor diminishing returns.

edit:http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=40805 :)

[droit]

Nevermind. They beat me to it. Damn, this thread is moving at lightspeed.

[BriarFox]

From the email Mestys sent me:

However, I believe there is a max damage per puncture on spikethorn. I think it's around 45 for the puncture crit itself, and 60 for the slashing crit. Any other experience?

If you maxed at 60/45 with, say, a 4-round spike thorn nearly every time, you'd be doing 240/180 = 420 damage per spike thorn.

Can we say, "Fucks shit up?"

[droit]

And for the record, 5000/5000 TPs doesn't even begin to cover this build.

[Tumbadoo]

Ok, unbelievable amount of good information here. I know that a shield would probably get the best DS but I'm not really looking to use a shield, it does not fit the idea I have for the character/role play.

So I logged in an played around a little more with possible builds. I could fixskill to this right now. So thoughts

Armor use =20
2hw=175
Cman=60
pt=101
dodge=101
AS=24
MIu=25
MCS=30
SPirit spells = 30
ranger spells = 90
Spirit summoning = 75
climb=30
swim=50
perc=30

I am hoping to get my hands on a fixskill to try a build like this and if it sucks change back in may. So if you know anyone who has one let me know.

[Danical]

5000/5000 is like JUST cap.

You'll need a hell of a lot more.

I'm almost 3x cap and I'm still filling in some areas.

[Celephais]

And for the record, 5000/5000 TPs doesn't even begin to cover this build.
Okay... start with whatever you'd like:

http://www.deadlylight.com/charactersheet/RangerQ.html?PTP=6000&MTP=6000

[Celephais]

5000/5000 is like JUST cap.

You'll need a hell of a lot more.

I'm almost 3x cap and I'm still filling in some areas.
Actually I just used 5k/5k because it was just cap... anyway if anyone wants to play around with a ranger build they can use the querystring in that last post to start whereever they want.

[Danical]

I know that a shield would probably get the best DS but I'm not really looking to use a shield, it does not fit the idea I have for the character/role play.

WTF? You wanted to use a vultite (metal) quarterstaff but you won't use a wooden shield?

[BriarFox]

WTF? You wanted to use a vultite (metal) quarterstaff but you won't use a wooden shield?

He's going for a druidic character. A shield just doesn't fit the genre, while a staff does.

[Tumbadoo]

yup, what he said about the staff.

[thefarmer]

quarterstaffs are shit. You might as well use a fucking runestaff

edit: Save the TPs in 2hd, and get more magical ranks.

[Danical]

However, I believe there is a max damage per puncture on spikethorn. I think it's around 45 for the puncture crit itself, and 60 for the slashing crit. Any other experience?

If you maxed at 60/45 with, say, a 4-round spike thorn nearly every time, you'd be doing 240/180 = 420 damage per spike thorn.

Can we say, "Fucks shit up?"

There's no slashing damage. You get 3 cycles of puncture crits; each cycle is coupled with generic raw damage. From the limited samples I've seen, there doesn't seem to be a strong correlation between the resulting puncture crit and the raw generic damage.



Chest 9 50 Incredible strike pierces heart and runs the critter clean through!
Back 9 50 Incredible shot impales a kidney. Too painful to even scream.
Abodomen 9 50 Perfect strike to the abdomen. The critter howls in pain and drops quite dead!

[Tumbadoo]

True enough. But, the idea is that it would be used sparingly. If worst comes to worse I can carry a big giant sword with me. I'd rather not as it defeats the idea of the character.

[Celephais]

http://www.dungeonmastering.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/druid.jpg
He's going for a druidic character. A shield just doesn't fit the genre, while a staff does.

[thefarmer]

True enough. But, the idea is that it would be used sparingly. If worst comes to worse I can carry a big giant sword with me. I'd rather not as it defeats the idea of the character.

You're not gonna be doing any killing with it and 2hd's a TP sink that gives you no advantage.

I hate to say it... but go runestaff.

[Danical]

He's going for a druidic character. A shield just doesn't fit the genre, while a staff does.


yup, what he said about the staff.

WHOOSH!!! A druid wouldn't ever use metal formed by man but they sure as hell would use a wooden shield.

Unless you just don't want any kind of cohesive RP, then that's totally cool.

Also, shields absolutely fit the genre ,D&D or otherwise.

[Fallen]

I would take other's advice and go brawling as your weapon. You could always use Spirit strike and a feras Tiger-claw to finish something off, or use Voln-Fu to hit things you may not have mana for.

[thefarmer]

Or hell.. if you want to waste tps...

go TWC Brawl and don't use a shield OR a weapon

[Mtenda]

Don't have my spreadsheet handy at the moment. How doable would this be at cap?

LBP
1x dodge
1x brawl
1x shield
1x PT
1x CM
1x lore
1x SMC
2x HP
30 ranks MIU
30 ranks AS
200 ranger spells
30 ranks perception
30 ranks climb
50+ ranks swim

This would require you to meet MnS needs another way which is not difficult by any means. Sweep for setup. Forget the weapon and spike all the way.

You could do this build with roughly 7300/7300. With 5000/5000 you could do this build minus 100 spells.

[Danical]

Yes. That's the point he was trying to convey.

EDIT: THIS WAS IN REFERENCE TO FALLEN'S REMOVED POST - DICK!

[Fallen]

Yes. That's the point he was trying to convey.

EDIT: THIS WAS IN REFERENCE TO FALLEN'S REMOVED POST - DICK!

hah. You snooze you lose, bitch. Always quote someone's post if you're trying to score gotcha points.

[thefarmer]

http://www.wizards.com/global/images/magic/mor/Heritage_Druid.jpg

[BriarFox]

The wood vs. metal thing is one opinion on druidism. I don't think the OP shares it. Don't be so subjective.

[Mtenda]

http://www.wizards.com/global/images/magic/mor/Heritage_Druid.jpg

And that pretty much solves the mana problem right there.

[thefarmer]

And that pretty much solves the mana problem right there.

Bingo!

Edit: Is it sad that I knew there was druid card for mana in MTG?

[Danical]

hah. You snooze you lose, bitch. Always quote someone's post if you're trying to score gotcha points.

I did! and then when I typed shit in, your quote was fucking gone on my reply screen! WTF!

[Danical]

The wood vs. metal thing is one opinion on druidism. I don't think the OP shares it. Don't be so subjective.

okayy

Rationalize the man-made staff constructed for warfare then.

[thefarmer]

okayy

Rationalize the man-made staff constructed for warfare then.

It's natural if it looks like this...

http://www.lebaronsprimitives.com/Skeleton1.gif

[Danical]

It's natural if it looks like this...

http://www.lebaronsprimitives.com/Skeleton1.gif

And you'd actually beat people over the head with that and not expect it to break almost immediately?

Staves are for old fucks that can't get around because they didn't have god damn electric powered wheelchairs.

EDIT: I don't have problems with Runestaves, just a metal quarterstaff if you claim it's for RP. That's bullshit. More like, I want the quarterstaff so I can trip bitches then spike them. That I have no problem with. Far be it for me to actually get pissy over someone's RP since I haven't RPed for more than 5 consecutive minutes in fucking years. I'm just saying.

[Danical]

If you really wanted to prone things, I would use Symbol of Throw/Kick and just toss bitches on the ground then spike them.

The awesome thing about FU is that it can and will stun things that can't be normally stunned because the code was written in the 1500s.

[thefarmer]

And you'd actually beat people over the head with that and not expect it to break almost immediately?

Nah, I'd just be P.I.M.P. with it.

[droit]

At 12.23m exp, I have 6986 PTPs and 6779 MTPs. That's enough to get me:

10 armor
2x shield
1x brawl
1x CM
24 PT
1x dodge
1.5x HP
30 SMC
1x summoning lore
30 climbing
50 swimming
30 perception
7 minor spirit spells
195 ranger spells

It's fucking tempting.

[Fallen]

Hah. You would certainly be unique. I still say Voln-FU would be the way to go, but I know how attached you are to sunfist. Think about how Boss Mobility is with Voln-fu.

[Fallen]

Why 1x CM? Drop those points and get atleast 125 for Minor spiritual.

[Celephais]

Why 1x CM? Drop those points and get atleast 125 for Minor spiritual.
He has 195 ranger spell ranks.

[Fallen]

He has 195 ranger spell ranks.

Would that even be maximizing CS by shorting yourself out of being .6x in your minor circle? Granted, Spikethorn will be more powerful, but all other CS based ranger spells would suffer for a likely slight benefit.

I would go 66/67 Minor Spiritual, and dump the rest in Ranger.

[droit]

Really, guys, I just want to see a completely maxed spike thorn. After that, I'd like to rearrange my spells like Fallen said and see a maxed fury. That's all. I don't really think I'd enjoy being a pure ranger.

[Danical]

You know what's rad?

You could still kill shit faster if you had 24 ranks of MIU, used a single haste imbed, and a 5x Lonbow and 5x arrows.

[Celephais]

If you have your fixskills, test it out right before the annual fixskills, so you can fixskills back to being viable. (You would have to pick one or the other to test out).

[Fallen]

You know what's rad?

You could still kill shit faster if you had 24 ranks of MIU, used a single haste imbed, and a 5x Lonbow and 5x arrows.

You know why? Because Archery is unbalanced, but SHHHHHH. It's a big secret.

[Danical]

You know why? Because Archery is unbalanced, but SHHHHHH. It's a big secret.

INORITE?

[BriarFox]

Would that even be maximizing CS by shorting yourself out of being .6x in your minor circle? Granted, Spikethorn will be more powerful, but all other CS based ranger spells would suffer for a likely slight benefit.

I would go 66/67 Minor Spiritual, and dump the rest in Ranger.

There are a lot of uncapped benefits to ranger ranks, though, with 613, 616, 618, and even 607/610/615.

[Fallen]

There are a lot of uncapped benefits to ranger ranks, though, with 613, 616, 618, and even 607/610/615.

Then perhaps just go to 120, or 130. The benefits cannot be so great as to lose out on all those spells.

[BriarFox]

Then perhaps just go to 120, or 130. The benefits cannot be so great as to lose out on all those spells.

120 would be really tempting. The rest (101-107) are easy enough from scrolls not to matter.

[droit]

120 can be imbedded.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I have a ranger who from 17 on only cast spike thorn for hunting. I cheated like shit and spelled him up with Tay, and sent mana from Tay because hey who has enough mana to spike hunt all day long.

He was 2x HP, 1x share, I forget the lores but whatever gives you better spikes, and I think he's 2x spells now. He's 40 or 41, and funny enough, his other skills caught up. Armor, shield and he's a brawler (voln), think 24 ranks of each share type. I think it's very viable, but mana intensive. MA makes it much easier.

[Mtenda]

I have a ranger who from 17 on only cast spike thorn for hunting. I cheated like shit and spelled him up with Tay, and sent mana from Tay because hey who has enough mana to spike hunt all day long.

He was 2x HP, 1x share, I forget the lores but whatever gives you better spikes, and I think he's 2x spells now. He's 40 or 41, and funny enough, his other skills caught up. Armor, shield and he's a brawler (voln), think 24 ranks of each share type. I think it's very viable, but mana intensive. MA makes it much easier.

Any chance you could provide some action clips?

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Sure, I'll try to log him in and run him through a few areas.

edit (this weekend)

[Fallen]

I have a ranger who from 17 on only cast spike thorn for hunting. I cheated like shit and spelled him up with Tay, and sent mana from Tay because hey who has enough mana to spike hunt all day long.

He was 2x HP, 1x share, I forget the lores but whatever gives you better spikes, and I think he's 2x spells now. He's 40 or 41, and funny enough, his other skills caught up. Armor, shield and he's a brawler (voln), think 24 ranks of each share type. I think it's very viable, but mana intensive. MA makes it much easier.

That's good stuff. Was he able to kill quickly? What were you hunting and how many spikes on average did it take to finish the creatures off?

[Mtenda]

Sure, I'll try to log him in and run him through a few areas.

edit (this weekend)

Thanks!

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

That's good stuff. Was he able to kill quickly? What were you hunting and how many spikes on average did it take to finish the creatures off?

Haven't hunted him in a long time, but I do remember Titans and Giants on the glacier took typically 2 spikes (I never analyzed it but I bet average was like 1.5 spikes per kill, or 3 spikes = 2 critter deaths). If they didn't die after two spikes I'd poke them with a fist-scythe once or twice instead of casting again.

I also remember 635 SUCKING when I used it against a room of mobs, not at all like when used against a character.

Also, now that I'm really thinking about it, I don't think I ever took him to 2x spells, once he got into older areas he really couldn't hunt without shield/armor/combat skills. I don't know, like I said, I'll dust him off this weekend.

[Fallen]

Haven't hunted him in a long time, but I do remember Titans and Giants on the glacier took typically 2 spikes (I never analyzed it but I bet average was like 1.5 spikes per kill, or 3 spikes = 2 critter deaths). If they didn't die after two spikes I'd poke them with a fist-scythe once or twice instead of casting again.

I also remember 635 SUCKING when I used it against a room of mobs, not at all like when used against a character.

Also, now that I'm really thinking about it, I don't think I ever took him to 2x spells, once he got into older areas he really couldn't hunt without shield/armor/combat skills. I don't know, like I said, I'll dust him off this weekend.

Since you're not wracking for mana you could try GoS and get into high enchant robes and pad them via sigils. I wonder if Spikethorn gets weighting from the offensive sigils. That would be hilarious.

[droit]

Since you're not wracking for mana you could try GoS and get into high enchant robes and pad them via sigils. I wonder if Spikethorn gets weighting from the offensive sigils. That would be hilarious.

I'm pretty sure the banes only work with attacks that have an AS/DS roll involved. Not that I've tested that or anything.

[Fallen]

I'm pretty sure the banes only work with attacks that have an AS/DS roll involved. Not that I've tested that or anything.

Can you imagine a weighted Implosion? A weighted Meteor Swarm?

[droit]

No, not really. But that's because I honestly have no idea how damage or crits are determined for most spells with hidden rolls.

[Mtenda]

Can you imagine a weighted Implosion? A weighted Meteor Swarm?

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/thumb/7/7c/What_If_31.jpg/300px-What_If_31.jpg

[Tumbadoo]

Made the switch over this evening. I've got 2 hunts down with my druid build and i'm kicking the shit outa everything on the third floor in the temple on Teras. Oh, and I'm using a rune staff.

GO ME!

[droit]

What character? And post your skills.

[Danical]

Tekeshi and Glanvis are the only Rangers around the statue that I've seen.

[Danical]

. . . Now bledin

[Tumbadoo]

I'm the one carrying the rune staff

[Tumbadoo]

You gesture at a triton executioner.

Dozens of long thorns suddenly grow out from the ground underneath a triton executioner! Several of the thorns jab into the executioner!
... hits for 24 points of damage!
... 35 points of damage!
Blow shatters knee and severs lower leg!
A triton executioner falls to the ground grasping her mangled left leg!
... hits for 11 points of damage!
... 30 points of damage!
Great shot penetrates thigh and shatters bone!
... hits for 40 points of damage!
... 40 points of damage!
Strike pierces temple and kills foe instantly!
The triton executioner gurgles once and goes still, a wrathful look on her face.


Dozens of long thorns suddenly grow out from the ground underneath a triton executioner! Several of the thorns jab into the executioner!
... hits for 24 points of damage!
... 35 points of damage!
Blow shatters knee and severs lower leg!
A triton executioner falls to the ground grasping her mangled right leg!
The triton executioner is stunned!
... hits for 14 points of damage!
... 35 points of damage!
Awesome shot shatters ribs and punctures lung!
... hits for 22 points of damage!
... 30 points of damage!
Impressive shot shatters wrist!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds

You gesture.
You close your eyes in a moment of intense concentration, channeling the pure natural power of your surroundings. As you continue to gather the energy, a low thrumming resounds through the area. Suddenly, a multitude of sharp pieces of debris splinter off from underfoot, savagely assailing everything around you!
The surroundings advance upon a triton combatant with relentless fury!
CS: +425 - TD: +265 + CvA: +20 + d100: +13 == +193
Warding failed!
A triton combatant is struck by a sharp piece of mist-covered debris!
... 33 points of damage!
... 30 points of damage!
Amazing shot through the triton combatant's nose enters the brain!
The triton combatant collapses, gurgling once with a wrathful look on her face before expiring.
The surroundings advance upon a spectral triton defender with relentless fury!
CS: +425 - TD: +278 + CvA: +25 + d100: +51 == +223
Warding failed!
A spectral triton defender is struck by a sharp piece of mist-covered debris!
... 39 points of damage!
... 25 points of damage!
Quick strike rips right arm open!
To your dismay it quickly closes on its own.
... 35 points of damage!
Good hit!
Right shoulder is ripped from its socket, then wriggles back into place.
The spectral form of the triton defender tenses in agony as he begins to dissolve from the bottom up!
The surroundings advance upon a triton executioner with relentless fury!
CS: +425 - TD: +291 + CvA: +20 + d100: +22 == +176
Warding failed!
A cluster of mist-covered debris collides with a triton executioner!
... 30 points of damage!
... 30 points of damage!
Good blow to left hand!
... 30 points of damage!
Good blow to head!
... 30 points of damage!
Good blow to back!
... 30 points of damage!
The triton executioner grimaces as hot droplets scald his left hand.
As swiftly as the chaos came to be, it recedes again into the surroundings.



You gesture.
You close your eyes in a moment of intense concentration, channeling the pure natural power of your surroundings. As you continue to gather the energy, a low thrumming resounds through the area. Suddenly, a multitude of sharp pieces of debris splinter off from underfoot, savagely assailing everything around you!
The surroundings advance upon a triton combatant with relentless fury!
CS: +425 - TD: +265 + CvA: +20 + d100: +35 == +215
Warding failed!
One of the large, pointed slivers of mist-covered debris hits a triton combatant!
... 38 points of damage!
... 35 points of damage!
Awesome shot shatters spine and punctures lung!
It is knocked to the ground!
... 25 points of damage!
Vicious strike punctures intestines!
... 35 points of damage!
Left eye bursts from pressure of boiling ocular fluid.
The triton combatant gurgles once and goes still, a wrathful look on his face.
The surroundings advance upon a spectral triton defender with relentless fury!
CS: +425 - TD: +275 + CvA: +25 + d100: +31 == +206
Warding failed!
A cluster of mist-covered debris collides with a spectral triton defender!
... 36 points of damage!
... 35 points of damage!
Strong hit to the chest!
Tendrils of mist explode as the strike passes right through.
... 25 points of damage!
Strong attack rips through the neck!
To your horror, the triton defender's substance flows around the wound without leaving a trace!
... 20 points of damage!
Powerful hit to the triton defender's neck leaves trails of vapor in its wake!
... 20 points of damage!
Strong hit rips arm from wrist to elbow.
The wound vanishes as the ethereal flesh swirls around in chaotic patterns.
The surroundings advance upon a triton combatant with relentless fury!
CS: +425 - TD: +265 + CvA: +20 + d100: +78 == +258
Warding failed!
A cluster of mist-covered debris collides with a triton combatant!
... 46 points of damage!
... 35 points of damage!
Hard blow to abdomen looks painful!
... 60 points of damage!
Blow to chest frees a rib to spear a lung and heart!
... 35 points of damage!
Hard blow to chest breaking ribs!
Hard to breathe!
The triton combatant collapses, gurgling once with a wrathful look on his face before expiring.
As swiftly as the chaos came to be, it recedes again into the surroundings.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.


You gesture at a triton executioner.

Dozens of long thorns suddenly grow out from the ground underneath a triton executioner! Several of the thorns jab into the executioner!
... hits for 12 points of damage!
... 40 points of damage!
Strike punctures thigh and shatters femur!
A triton executioner falls to the ground grasping her mangled right leg!
The triton executioner is stunned!
... hits for 38 points of damage!
... 30 points of damage!
Well aimed strike shatters bone in left arm!
... hits for 10 points of damage!
... 35 points of damage!
Shot destroys eye and the brain behind it!
The triton executioner gurgles once and goes still, a wrathful look on her face.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

You gesture at a triton radical.

Dozens of long thorns suddenly grow out from the ground underneath a triton radical! Several of the thorns jab into the radical!
... hits for 20 points of damage!
... 30 points of damage!
Great shot penetrates thigh and shatters bone!
It is knocked to the ground!
... hits for 33 points of damage!
... 25 points of damage!
Elbow punctured, oh what pain!
... hits for 16 points of damage!
... 30 points of damage!
Fine shot pierces jugular vein! The brain wonders where all its oxygen went, briefly.
The triton radical gurgles once and goes still, a wrathful look on his face.
The dully illuminated mantle protecting a triton radical begins to falter, then completely fades away.
A white glow rushes away from a triton radical.
The dull golden nimbus fades from around a triton radical.
The brilliant aura fades away from a triton radical.
The very powerful look leaves a triton radical.
The white light leaves a triton radical.
A triton radical seems slightly different.
The warm glow fades from around a triton radical.
The guiding force leaves a triton radical.












You gesture at a triton combatant.

Dozens of long thorns suddenly grow out from the ground underneath a triton combatant! Several of the thorns jab into the combatant!
... hits for 12 points of damage!
... 25 points of damage!
Well placed shot pierces knee, that hurt!
It is knocked to the ground!
... hits for 22 points of damage!
... 20 points of damage!
Attack punctures the eye and connects with something really vital!
The triton combatant gurgles once and goes still, a wrathful look on her

[thefarmer]

Made the switch over this evening. I've got 2 hunts down with my druid build and i'm kicking the shit outa everything on the third floor in the temple on Teras. Oh, and I'm using a rune staff.

GO ME!

Told you runestaff would be better than a quarterstaff! :yes:

[droit]

Post skills.

[Danical]

Try it on magi.

I'd like to see what 616 looks like vs base 102 creatures. Hell, try it on base 105 GWEs.

[Tumbadoo]

Yeah I'm gonna hit the lower level when I've got some help. I'm sure I'll get eaten up there alone. If anyone wants to join me find Glanvis. Honestly so far so good. I'll post skill shortly.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/thumb/7/7c/What_If_31.jpg/300px-What_If_31.jpg

Totally unrelated, but I have that comic :) I've got the What if series from 1-50

[BriarFox]

Looking pretty awesome there. Nice CS, too, though you must have decided not to go straight ranger circle?

[Danical]

Looking pretty awesome there. Nice CS, too, though you must have decided not to go straight ranger circle?

:( :( :(


Dozens of long thorns suddenly grow out from the ground underneath a greater water elemental! Several of the thorns jab into the elemental!
... hits for 11 points of damage!
... 5 points of damage!
... hits for 7 points of damage!
... 5 points of damage!


Dozens of long thorns suddenly grow out from the ground underneath a greater water elemental! The elemental manages to get out of the way!


Glanvis gestures at a greater water elemental.
A greater water elemental is awakened by Glanvis's attack!

Dozens of long thorns suddenly grow out from the ground underneath a greater water elemental! One of the thorns jabs into the elemental!
... hits for 9 points of damage!
... 5 points of damage!

[Tumbadoo]

Yeah that run on second was not so good. That sentry enjoyed tearing me up. I did not have 625 up on that greater. Not sure it would have made a difference or not.

Either way I am having no problems on the third floor. It is mana intensive but I manage to fry before or slightly after I wrack. My defense is more than adequate there and I've not gotten eaten up by maneuvers yet.

More ranks in the ranger circle and summoning are gonna be need I think to handle two.

[BriarFox]

The stronger GWEs are just going to be annoying in general - 616 is strongly level-based.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Here's mine at 40... not sure how old SG's are.

Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a storm giant.
Dozens of long thorns suddenly grow out from the ground underneath a storm giant! Several of the thorns jab into the giant!
... hits for 28 points of damage!
... 30 points of damage!
Strike pierces calf!
It is knocked to the ground!
The storm giant is stunned!
... hits for 11 points of damage!
... 25 points of damage!
Well aimed shot, punctures calf!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>target clear
incant 616
Target cleared.
>You gesture while summoning the spirits of nature to aid you with the Spike Thorn spell...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a storm giant.
Dozens of long thorns suddenly grow out from the ground underneath a storm giant! Several of the thorns jab into the giant!
... hits for 35 points of damage!
... 40 points of damage!
Incredible shot to the eye penetrates deep into skull!
The storm giant howls in agony one last time and dies.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

>
You are buffeted by a sudden gust of wind, as an angry storm giant rushes in!
>
A storm giant thrusts with a spear at you!
AS: +247 vs DS: +276 with AvD: +21 + d100 roll: +67 = +59
A clean miss.
>
A storm giant raises its fists to the sky.
>
Your Gift Of Lumnis cycle has restarted, and PsiNet has recorded this.
A soft feeling of serenity touches your mind, providing you with a clearer understanding of recent events.
>
A storm giant claps its hands together in front of you!
You notice a gas cloud begin to form above you.
>target clear
incant 616
Target cleared.
>You gesture while summoning the spirits of nature to aid you with the Spike Thorn spell...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a storm giant.
Dozens of long thorns suddenly grow out from the ground underneath a storm giant! Several of the thorns jab into the giant!
... hits for 7 points of damage!
... 20 points of damage!
Strike pierces thigh!
It is knocked to the ground!
... hits for 16 points of damage!
... 30 points of damage!
Shot pierces a wrist!
The storm giant is stunned!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>tell comp to attack
Your companion senses your atavistic feelings and his raw untamed emotions begin to surface, as he turns his attention fully towards the storm giant that he believes is the source of your irritation.
>target clear
incant 616
Target cleared.
>You gesture while summoning the spirits of nature to aid you with the Spike Thorn spell...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a storm giant.
[Spell Hindrance for a set of gold dwarven coinmail lined with thick fur is 6% with current Armor Use skill, d100= 4]
Your armor prevents the spell from working correctly.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>
A towering shadow crosses your path, as a skeletal giant appears!
>
A storm giant slowly works its way back into a standing position.
>target clear
incant 616
Target cleared.
>You gesture while summoning the spirits of nature to aid you with the Spike Thorn spell...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a storm giant.
Dozens of long thorns suddenly grow out from the ground underneath a storm giant! Several of the thorns jab into the giant!
... hits for 21 points of damage!
... 25 points of damage!
Well aimed shot, punctures calf!
The storm giant is stunned!
... hits for 17 points of damage!
... 25 points of damage!
Well aimed shot, punctures calf!
... hits for 14 points of damage!
... 35 points of damage!
Well placed shot pierces knee, that hurt!
A storm giant screams and falls to the ground grasping its mangled right leg!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>
You notice the gas cloud begin to condense!
>
The giant moans evilly!
A skeletal giant pounds at you with its fist!
AS: +227 vs DS: +276 with AvD: +40 + d100 roll: +29 = +20
A clean miss.
>
A storm giant struggles helplessly on the ground.
>throw storm gi
>
You stop as you realize your opponent is already down.
>kick storm gi
You attempt to kick a storm giant!
MB: 241 vs MB: 124 = 117 -- Gain advantage!
Rapid move! Gained initiative.
THT 52, d100 roll: 88, modified: 205
and hits for 25 points of damage!
... +4 extra hits. Fluid move followed by a leaping kick to back!
Foe knocked to the ground and stunned!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>
kick storm gi
...wait 2 seconds.
R>
Large sparks begin to form in the center of the gas cloud!
R>
kick storm gi
...wait 1 seconds.
R>
kick storm gi
...wait 1 seconds.
R>
The giant moans evilly!
A skeletal giant pounds at you with its fist!
AS: +227 vs DS: +276 with AvD: +40 + d100 roll: +24 = +15
A clean miss.
R>
kick storm gi
A storm giant throws its head back and roars in anger, shaking off the stun!
R>
A dappled tiger slashes his claws at a storm giant! The dappled tiger's claws rip a long furrow in the storm giant!
... 10 points of damage!
Deft slash across chest draws blood!
The storm giant takes a deep breath.
R>
You attempt to kick a storm giant!
MB: 241 vs MB: 124 = 117 -- Gain advantage!
Rapid move! Gained initiative.
THT 52, d100 roll: 72, modified: 189
and hits for 22 points of damage!
... +19 extra hits. Double spin flying roundhouse shatters skull and
turns brain to jelly. Foe dies instantly!
The storm giant howls in agony one last time and dies.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>loot
You search the storm giant.
It had a spear.
It had 222 silvers on it.
You gather the remaining 222 coins.
It left some essence of air behind.
You pick up some essence of air.
It had nothing else of value.
A storm giant vanishes in a dark swirling cloud rising up into the air.
>
The gas cloud begins to dissipate.
>stow air
You put some essence of air in your lion-mane mantle.
>kick gia
You attempt to kick a skeletal giant!
MB: 267 vs MB: 120 = 147 -- Gain advantage!
Expert maneuver! Perfect position.
THT 69, d100 roll: 41, modified: 188
and hits for 23 points of damage!
... +28 extra hits. Double spin flying roundhouse shatters skull and
turns brain to jelly. Foe dies instantly!
You hear a sound like a weeping child as a white glow separates itself from the skeletal giant's body as it rises, disappearing into the heavens.
A skeletal giant falls to the ground in a clattering, motionless heap.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>loot
You search the skeletal giant.
It had 47 silvers on it.
You gather the remaining 47 coins.
It had nothing else of value.
A skeletal giant turns to dust.

>l
[Upper Trollfang, Sentoph]
From this high point you can see all around Sentoph. Signs of a rockslide mar the northwestern slope, while fog blankets the eastern side. Jagged peaks strain for the sky, as though seeking to blend their flat stony grey with the deep stormy grey of the clouds. You also see a skeletal giant.
Obvious paths: north, northeast, southeast, southwest
>kick gia
You attempt to kick a skeletal giant!
MB: 277 vs MB: 130 = 147 -- Gain advantage!
Expert maneuver! Perfect position.
THT 69, d100 roll: 67, modified: 214
and hits for 29 points of damage!
... +5 extra hits. Wheel kick tears into tendons and muscle.
Forced to parry down... stunned!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>
kick gia
...wait 2 seconds.
R>
kick gia
...wait 1 seconds.
R>
kick gia
...wait 1 seconds.
>
kick gia
You attempt to kick a skeletal giant!
MB: 277 vs MB: 105 = 172 -- Gain advantage!
Hard to follow! Fantastic position.
THT 69, d100 roll: 65, modified: 237
and hits for 33 points of damage!
... +7 extra hits. Fluid move followed by a leaping kick to back!
Foe knocked to the ground and stunned!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>
kick gia
You attempt to kick a skeletal giant!
MB: 277 vs MB: 55 = 222 -- Gain advantage!
Blink! Disappeared and then reappeared behind opponent.
(Fumble! @ 5) rolled: 4
Off balance! Nearly tripped.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>
A storm giant drags itself in, crackling in pain!
R>
kick gia
...wait 2 seconds.
R>
kick gia
...wait 1 seconds.
R>kick skel gia
You attempt to kick a skeletal giant!
MB: 277 vs MB: 80 = 197 -- Gain advantage!
Movement is a blur! Outflanked opponent.
THT 69, d100 roll: 10, modified: 207
and hits for 27 points of damage!
... +5 extra hits. Well placed kick to foot forces foe to parry down!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>
A skeletal giant slowly stands back up.
R>
A storm giant swings a morning star at you!
AS: +217 vs DS: +246 with AvD: +28 + d100 roll: +95 = +94
A clean miss.
R>
kick skel gia
...wait 1 seconds.
R>
kick skel gia
You attempt to kick a skeletal giant!
MB: 277 vs MB: 130 = 147 -- Gain advantage!
Expert maneuver! Perfect position.
THT 69, d100 roll: 79, modified: 226
and hits for 31 points of damage!
... +10 extra hits. Wheel kick tears into tendons and muscle.
Forced to parry down... stunned!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>
kick skel gia
You attempt to kick a skeletal giant!
MB: 277 vs MB: 105 = 172 -- Gain advantage!
Hard to follow! Fantastic position.
(Fumble! @ 5) rolled: 2
Off balance! Nearly tripped.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>
kick skel gia
...wait 2 seconds.
R>
A storm giant swings a morning star at you!
AS: +217 vs DS: +246 with AvD: +28 + d100 roll: +65 = +64
A clean miss.
R>
kick skel gia
...wait 1 seconds.
R>
kick skel gia
You attempt to kick a skeletal giant!
MB: 277 vs MB: 105 = 172 -- Gain advantage!
Hard to follow! Fantastic position.
THT 69, d100 roll: 49, modified: 221
and hits for 30 points of damage!
... +8 extra hits. Wheel kick tears into tendons and muscle.
Forced to parry down... stunned!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>
kick skel gia
...wait 1 seconds.
R>
kick skel gia
You attempt to kick a skeletal giant!
MB: 277 vs MB: 130 = 147 -- Gain advantage!
Expert maneuver! Perfect position.
THT 69, d100 roll: 60, modified: 207
and hits for 27 points of damage!
... +5 extra hits. Fluid move followed by a leaping kick to back!
Foe knocked to the ground and stunned!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>
A storm giant swings a morning star at you!
AS: +217 vs DS: +246 with AvD: +28 + d100 roll: +70 = +69
A clean miss.
R>
kick skel gia
You attempt to kick a skeletal giant!
MB: 277 vs MB: 55 = 222 -- Gain advantage!
Blink! Disappeared and then reappeared behind opponent.
THT 69, d100 roll: 76, modified: 298
and hits for 45 points of damage!
... +10 extra hits. Flying kick to body knocks foe down.
Foe is stunned and loses parry.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>
kick skel gia
R>
You attempt to kick a skeletal giant!
MB: 277 vs MB: 55 = 222 -- Gain advantage!
Blink! Disappeared and then reappeared behind opponent.
THT 69, d100 roll: 77, modified: 299
and hits for 46 points of damage!
... +25 extra hits. Double spin flying roundhouse shatters skull and
turns brain to jelly. Foe dies instantly!
You hear a sound like a weeping child as a white glow separates itself from the skeletal giant's body as it rises, disappearing into the heavens.
A skeletal giant falls still, its bones snapping like twigs.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>
A storm giant drags itself north, crackling in pain.
R>loot
...wait 1 seconds.
R>loot
You search the skeletal giant.
It had 179 silvers on it.
You gather the remaining 179 coins.
It had a turquoise stone on it!
You pick up a turquoise stone.
It had nothing else of value.
A skeletal giant turns to dust.
>
A storm giant lumbers in, surrounded by a raging storm!
>stow right
You put a turquoise stone in your lion-mane mantle.
>target clear
incant 616
Target cleared.
>You gesture while summoning the spirits of nature to aid you with the Spike Thorn spell...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a storm giant.
Dozens of long thorns suddenly grow out from the ground underneath a storm giant! Several of the thorns jab into the giant!
... hits for 16 points of damage!
... 25 points of damage!
Well aimed shot, punctures calf!
The storm giant is stunned!
... hits for 12 points of damage!
... 25 points of damage!
Well aimed shot, punctures calf!
A storm giant screams and falls to the ground grasping its mangled left leg!
... hits for 21 points of damage!
... 20 points of damage!
Strike pierces upper arm!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>target clear
incant 616
Target cleared.
>You gesture while summoning the spirits of nature to aid you with the Spike Thorn spell...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a storm giant.
Dozens of long thorns suddenly grow out from the ground underneath a storm giant! Several of the thorns jab into the giant!
... hits for 34 points of damage!
... 35 points of damage!
Damaging strike to chest, several ribs shattered!
... hits for 40 points of damage!
... 45 points of damage!
Strike to wrist severs right hand!
The giant's spear falls to the ground.
... hits for 18 points of damage!
... 45 points of damage!
Strike to right arm cleanly severs it at the shoulder!
... hits for 28 points of damage!
... 45 points of damage!
Strike to left arm cleanly severs it at the shoulder!
The storm giant howls in agony one last time and dies.
The light blue glow leaves a storm giant.
The powerful look leaves a storm giant.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 130 35
Shield Use.........................| 142 42
Brawling...........................| 184 84
Physical Fitness...................| 82 18
Arcane Symbols.....................| 66 14
Harness Power......................| 183 83
Elemental Mana Control.............| 90 20
Spirit Mana Control................| 120 30
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 136 38
Survival...........................| 142 42
Perception.........................| 93 21
Climbing...........................| 70 15
Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 7
Spell Lists
Ranger.............................| 35

He's 40.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

oh, I clearly migrated him to a more normal build I think. I know he used to be almost all spells and share. He's basically just a spellup whore now.

[droit]

Yeah that run on second was not so good. That sentry enjoyed tearing me up. I did not have 625 up on that greater. Not sure it would have made a difference or not.

625 would have made a huge difference. The second floor is indoors, so 625 is a necessity. You should be wearing it on every hunt for the TD, anyway.

[droit]

oh, I clearly migrated him to a more normal build I think. I know he used to be almost all spells and share. He's basically just a spellup whore now.

How's his DS? Or, I guess, how was it?

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

in those grabs he was pure self spelled, in I think 7x brig with a 7x buckler. His DS was like 276 in full offensive? Sorry, I thought I grabbed a few swings at him (on my laptop without a mouse, so copying and pasting sucks). I use airwall since he fu's.

When I had him almost all spells it was worse, but I'd spell him with Tayvin and he could cast 120 then as well. I think I moved him to brawl/board because his DS sucked, he had enough mana/levels at that point I didn't need the doubling up any more, as he was only ever really made to be a 618 caster. I'm actually shocked he's 40 now, as I just hunted him when I was bored with the others or while Tayvin was fried (before I capped).

[Tumbadoo]

A spectral triton defender thrusts with a tarnished dark silver harpoon at you!
AS: +439 vs DS: +600 with AvD: +26 + d100 roll: +54 = -81
A clean miss.

Dozens of long thorns suddenly grow out from the ground underneath an ethereal triton sentry! Several of the thorns jab into the sentry!
... hits for 9 points of damage!
... 30 points of damage!
Strong assault amputates the leg at the knee.
It floats in the air a moment before drifting back into place!
It is knocked to the ground!
... hits for 21 points of damage!
... 30 points of damage!
Attack whistles right through the lower back encountering little resistance!
... hits for 9 points of damage!
... 20 points of damage!
Strike swipes cleanly through the abdomen, but seals up a moment later!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
(Forcing stance down to guarded)
>prep 616
> cast at sentry
You gesture while summoning the spirits of nature to aid you with the Spike Thorn spell...
Your spell is ready.
>
You gesture at an ethereal triton sentry.

Dozens of long thorns suddenly grow out from the ground underneath an ethereal triton sentry! Several of the thorns jab into the sentry!
... hits for 26 points of damage!
... 35 points of damage!
Body swirls violently from a strong hit to the back.
Neat effect!
... hits for 26 points of damage!
... 35 points of damage!
Blow to the left eye slides through head.
The triton sentry twitches violently, then shudders slightly as the wound seals.
The triton sentry emits a hollow scream as ribbons of essence begin to wend away from her and into nothingness!
The bright luminescence fades from around an ethereal triton sentry.
The deep blue glow leaves an ethereal triton sentry.
A shadow seems to detach itself from an ethereal triton sentry, swiftly dissipating into the air.
The dull golden nimbus fades from around an ethereal triton sentry.
The brilliant luminescence fades from around an ethereal triton sentry.
An ethereal triton sentry glances around, looking a bit less confident.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

[Mtenda]

Show us yo skillz Tumbadude

[Danical]

A spectral triton defender thrusts with a tarnished dark silver harpoon at you!
AS: +439 vs DS: +600 with AvD: +26 + d100 roll: +54 = -81
A clean miss.

Dozens of long thorns suddenly grow out from the ground underneath an ethereal triton sentry! Several of the thorns jab into the sentry!
... hits for 9 points of damage!
... 30 points of damage!
Strong assault amputates the leg at the knee.
It floats in the air a moment before drifting back into place!
It is knocked to the ground!
... hits for 21 points of damage!
... 30 points of damage!
Attack whistles right through the lower back encountering little resistance!
... hits for 9 points of damage!
... 20 points of damage!
Strike swipes cleanly through the abdomen, but seals up a moment later!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
(Forcing stance down to guarded)
>prep 616
> cast at sentry
You gesture while summoning the spirits of nature to aid you with the Spike Thorn spell...
Your spell is ready.
>
You gesture at an ethereal triton sentry.

Dozens of long thorns suddenly grow out from the ground underneath an ethereal triton sentry! Several of the thorns jab into the sentry!
... hits for 26 points of damage!
... 35 points of damage!
Body swirls violently from a strong hit to the back.
Neat effect!
... hits for 26 points of damage!
... 35 points of damage!
Blow to the left eye slides through head.
The triton sentry twitches violently, then shudders slightly as the wound seals.
The triton sentry emits a hollow scream as ribbons of essence begin to wend away from her and into nothingness!
The bright luminescence fades from around an ethereal triton sentry.
The deep blue glow leaves an ethereal triton sentry.
A shadow seems to detach itself from an ethereal triton sentry, swiftly dissipating into the air.
The dull golden nimbus fades from around an ethereal triton sentry.
The brilliant luminescence fades from around an ethereal triton sentry.
An ethereal triton sentry glances around, looking a bit less confident.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

Now those are good shots. Try using 625 and casting at a GWE. You'll probably see a lot better success.

[Tumbadoo]

Glanvis (at level 100), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 120 30
Combat Maneuvers...................| 158 58
Two-Handed Weapons.................| 274 174
Physical Fitness...................| 201 101
Dodging............................| 201 101
Arcane Symbols.....................| 102 24
Magic Item Use.....................| 130 35
Harness Power......................| 302 202
Spirit Mana Control................| 120 30
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 170 70
Perception.........................| 120 30
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 150 50

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 30

Spell Lists
Ranger.............................| 90

It got late last night so I went to bed without posting this, sorry. So here is what I'm rolling with now. As you see I dumped so points into 2handed, hoping to get some decent DS and a viable killing option outside of spells. After last night, and if nothing changes, I don't think I'll need to swing a weapon ever.

The question now is what to focus on next. I'm thinking Ranger ranks, lore, dodge and maybe cman to 101 ranks. Thoughts?


That sentry shot was with 625 up. When it comes to the Sentries and elementals, I'll need to review the spell list again and come up with a different tactic other than just 616 something to death.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Glanvis (at level 100), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 120 30
Combat Maneuvers...................| 158 58
Two-Handed Weapons.................| 274 174
Physical Fitness...................| 201 101
Dodging............................| 201 101
Arcane Symbols.....................| 102 24
Magic Item Use.....................| 130 35
Harness Power......................| 302 202
Spirit Mana Control................| 120 30
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 170 70
Perception.........................| 120 30
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 150 50

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 30

Spell Lists
Ranger.............................| 90

It got late last night so I went to bed without posting this, sorry. So here is what I'm rolling with now. As you see I dumped so points into 2handed, hoping to get some decent DS and a viable killing option outside of spells. After last night, and if nothing changes, I don't think I'll need to swing a weapon ever.

The question now is what to focus on next. I'm thinking Ranger ranks, lore, dodge and maybe cman to 101 ranks. Thoughts?


That sentry shot was with 625 up. When it comes to the Sentries and elementals, I'll need to review the spell list again and come up with a different tactic other than just 616 something to death.

You could learn spell aiming and 110 em? I have a fixskill so I may just FS my ranger back to almost all spells and spell aim if it's possible. I do like his FU though, it's a good backup.

[BriarFox]

You're capped. Why not 1x CM and 2x THW before you start working on other things?

[Fallen]

>>Two-Handed Weapons.................| 274 174 >>

Didn't you say you were using a Runestaff? If so, THW training will NOT help your Runestaff DS. Getting more magical ranks will do so.

[Fallen]

You could learn spell aiming and 110 em? I have a fixskill so I may just FS my ranger back to almost all spells and spell aim if it's possible. I do like his FU though, it's a good backup.

111. Fire Spirit. 110 is Unbalance.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I have to retract my statement on the What if series, I don't have up to 50, the original series only ran 1-47, and it looks like I'm missing about 10 of them. :( Part of me wants to order the missing books to fill them in.

[thefarmer]

>>Two-Handed Weapons.................| 274 174 >>

Didn't you say you were using a Runestaff? If so, THW training will NOT help your Runestaff DS. Getting more magical ranks will do so.

Doh.

He really didn't take my advice and wasted those tps... Nor did he understand quarterstaves aren't viable killing weapons at all.

[Mtenda]

Well, to split hairs, the THW will help with DS in stances other than offensive since a runestaff is also a quarterstaff. But still a big waste if you aren't actually using a 2 hander that's worth a damn.

SHM- Better get to work on that collection their bud. I don't know how you can say your life is complete until you have explored all the "What Ifs" of the Marvel world. Nonetheless, you get an E for effort.

[Fallen]

Well, to split hairs, the THW will help with DS in stances other than offensive since a runestaff is also a quarterstaff. But still a big waste if you aren't actually using a 2 hander that's worth a damn.

Are you sure on that? I thought it in no way factored into the DS calculations of runestaves what so ever.

[Fallen]

Training Requirements

Though any amount of training in magical skills will provide runestaff DS (http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/DS), 8 ranks of magical skills per level will generate DS approximately equal to that provided by training 1x in Two-Handed Weapons (http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Two-Handed_Weapons). Actual training in the Two-Handed Weapons skill is required to generate offensive attack strength (http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Attack_strength) with a runestaff. Having more magical skill ranks than 8 per level increases parry skill by 5% per rank beyond 8.


From Krakiipedia. I am about 90% sure THW training does NOTHING for DS with a runestaff.

[Mtenda]

Are you sure on that? I thought it in no way factored into the DS calculations of runestaves what so ever.

I may be thinking of bows. I'll test it in a minute.

[Mtenda]

URITE Fallen....no DS from the runestaff for my rogue other than from his magical ranks

[droit]

90 ranger ranks and 70 summoning ranks are far too low, IMO.

[Fallen]

I would definitely drop those points and pick up more HP, Lores, or Spell Ranks.

[Tumbadoo]

My thought around dumping points into 2hw was to have a viable melee attack if the spell thing did not work out. I'm not intimately familiar with how rune staff ds works other than of course magical ranks, but is it not also a 2 handed weapon, and therefor subject to the benefits of training in 2hw? Either way it does not really matter because when the annual fixskill comes around I'll probably drop all that 2hw ranks and put them in ranger ranks and lores.

[Fallen]

My thought around dumping points into 2hw was to have a viable melee attack if the spell thing did not work out. I'm not intimately familiar with how rune staff ds works other than of course magical ranks, but is it not also a 2 handed weapon, and therefor subject to the benefits of training in 2hw? Either way it does not really matter because when the annual fixskill comes around I'll probably drop all that 2hw ranks and put them in ranger ranks and lores.

You are correct in believing that to get more AS out of your runestaff you will need THW training. That is ALL you're going to get out of that THW training, though. A piddly amount of AS.

It is a pity ranger spells cannot be imbedded, that way you could whip out a ranger made rod and spike something to death if you needed to finish something off. Your minor spirit CS likely isn't enough to hit anything like level, so 110 imbeds aren't worth much. I don't remember your plan, but you likely didn't get any Spell Aim so that rules out 111 and 118 rods as well.

Only thing I can suggest is waiting for your companion to finish the creature off, but I am told they are mighty slow.

[droit]

True, Evarin. My suggestion would be to stock up on mana potions of all sorts. Another good strategy would be to carry a good supply of brimstones for large groups. They have a really high killing potential, but even those critters that survive have to fall to the ground to smother the flames--a perfect setup for 616, if expensive.

[Mtenda]

In honor of this thread I fixskilled my little 25 ranger. The setup is still mostly for MAing. But spikethorn is more of an option now especially when hunting with my 97 sorcerer as a mana block and knock down guy. If he were capped, I'd probably still go with the build I posted earlier. Would a druid use a wooden lance? Asking that question more for Tumbadude as I don't want to roleplay a druid.

(at level 25), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 40 8
Combat Maneuvers...................| 105 25
Polearm Weapons....................| 150 50
Physical Fitness...................| 105 25
Dodging............................| 105 25
Harness Power......................| 105 25
Spirit Mana Control................| 105 25
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 105 25

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 7

Spell Lists
Ranger.............................| 20

[droit]

That's a nice, focused build for a low level ranger. I wonder how it would fare without the MA sorc.

Edit: Though why bother with the 7 MnS ranks at all if you do have that sorc? I'd say put em in ranger ranks.

[Mtenda]

That's a nice, focused build for a low level ranger. I wonder how it would fare without the MA sorc.

Edit: Though why bother with the 7 MnS ranks at all if you do have that sorc? I'd say put em in ranger ranks.

Probly would have to rely almost totally on the lance because he is only sporting 78 max mana.

Need the MnS for characters on the account with the sorc. :)

[Fallen]

I've read Polearms suck for Rangers because of the cost.

[Mtenda]

I've read Polearms suck for Rangers because of the cost.

7/2 vs. 6/2 for two handers. It's really not that much more expensive than 2x weapon/1x shield.

Edit: I guess if you are looking at the difference between 2x edged/1x shield and polearms the difference really starts to show. 14/3 per level vs. 21/6 per level. Blunts are 17/3 and two handers are 18/6. IMO though it's well worth it to spend the extra points to use anything but edged. If he were an ambusher I would definitely go blunts or two handers. I know Droit will disagree but I just hate edged.

[droit]

Whatever floats your boat. As they say, it's hard to screw up a ranger.

[Fallen]

They DO say that a lot on the ranger boards. I have been reading through your guy's folder. Rangers talk a lot.

[droit]

Not anymore. The ranger boards have been dead for months.

[Drew]

Not anymore. The ranger boards have been dead for months.

Coincidence that it coincides with me putting my account on hold? I think not :tumble:

I've been out of town so I missed this thread develop but I just thought I'd mention that I'm 2x THW and 1.2x CM and trip won't hit anything like level.

[Danical]

I've been out of town so I missed this thread develop but I just thought I'd mention that I'm 2x THW and 1.2x CM and trip won't hit anything like level.

Exactly. Just as I said.

[Mtenda]

Meh. Trip is an inferior option to other things anyways. E-wave imbeds handle multiple creatures with no hard round time or mana or stamina spent.

[thefarmer]

I have your druid beat. Hands down.

>prep 1012
You change your tune slightly, adding the element for Sonic Weapon Song to your song...
Your spellsong is ready.
>sing runestaff
You weave another verse into your harmony.
You begin singing and focus your voice into a vortex of air shaped like a sonic runestaff, centered on your right hand.
Sing Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>wave rune
You wave your sonic runestaff, stirring up a restless breeze.

[thefarmer]

Few hits with a runestaff

Skin:
You swing a crystal-set rosewood runestaff at a mountain lion!
AS: +260 vs DS: +140 with AvD: +14 + d100 roll: +56 = +190
... and hit for 23 points of damage!
Stomach shot lands with a hollow *thump*.
Roundtime: 5 sec.

Plate: I think..

>kil giant
You swing a crystal-set rosewood runestaff at a stone giant!
AS: +461 vs DS: +327 with AvD: -8 + d100 roll: +86 = +212
... and hit for 8 points of damage!
Glancing blow to the stone giant's left leg!
The guiding force leaves you.
Roundtime: 5 sec.


chain:

>kill
You swing a crystal-set rosewood runestaff at a dark orc!
AS: +270 vs DS: +131 with AvD: +11 + d100 roll: +78 = +228
... and hit for 29 points of damage!
Grazing blow to the stomach.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
R>
A dark orc swings a scimitar at you!
You dodge just in the nick of time!
R>l orc

You see a fairly typical dark orc.
He has some minor cuts and bruises on his abdomen.
He has a scimitar, a leather helm (worn), a reinforced shield and some double chain (worn).
>kill
You swing a crystal-set rosewood runestaff at a dark orc!
AS: +270 vs DS: +85 with AvD: +11 + d100 roll: +97 = +293
... and hit for 44 points of damage!
Respectable shot to the back.
The dark orc is stunned!
Roundtime: 5 sec.
R>kill
You swing a crystal-set rosewood runestaff at a dark orc!
AS: +270 vs DS: +64 with AvD: +11 + d100 roll: +20 = +237
... and hit for 31 points of damage!
Smash to the kneecap.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
R>
A dark orc swings a scimitar at you!
You evade the attack with ease!
R>kill
...wait 1 seconds.
R>kill
R>
...wait 1 seconds.
R>kill
You swing a crystal-set rosewood runestaff at a dark orc!
AS: +270 vs DS: +75 with AvD: +11 + d100 roll: +97 = +303
... and hit for 45 points of damage!
Blow to chest causes the dark orc's heart to skip a beat.
The dark orc is stunned!
Roundtime: 5 sec.
R>kill
You swing a crystal-set rosewood runestaff at a dark orc!
AS: +270 vs DS: +53 with AvD: +11 + d100 roll: +19 = +247
... and hit for 23 points of damage!
Broken finger on the dark orc's left hand!
A dark orc gives a last shudder and dies.
Roundtime: 5 sec.

[Fallen]

If you had awesome flares it might be worth it to swing.

[Mtenda]

If you had awesome flares it might be worth it to swing.

Like multiple atomic bomb flares? :)

[Fallen]

Nah, just enough to get what 2? bardic flares. Who cares if you do one point of damage. Their procs when properly trained are insane.

[Drew]

Well you wouldn't want to fight troll kings with it, but it seems like a bard runestaff might be the polished turd of runestaff fighting.

[Tumbadoo]

[Roll result: 155 (open d100: 163) Penalties: 10]
With a fluid whirl, you plant a villswood quarter staff firmly into the ground near a triton executioner and jerk the weapon sharply sideways.
A triton executioner's feet are swept roughly from under her!
... 7 points of damage!
Torn muscle in the triton executioner's left leg!

** Your quarter staff releases a blast of vibrating energy! **

... 10 points of damage!
Light strike to chest.


[Roll result: 170 (open d100: 74) Penalties: 10]
With a fluid whirl, you plant a villswood quarter staff firmly into the ground near a siren and jerk the weapon sharply sideways.
A siren's feet are swept roughly from under her!
... 7 points of damage!
Roundtime: 5 sec.

[Roll result: 155 (open d100: 93) Penalties: 20]
With a fluid whirl, you plant a villswood quarter staff firmly into the ground near a triton dissembler and jerk the weapon sharply sideways.
A triton dissembler's feet are swept roughly from under her!
... 7 points of damage!
Torn muscle in the triton dissembler's left leg!
Roundtime: 5 sec.

[Roll result: 177 (open d100: 81) Penalties: 10]
With a fluid whirl, you plant a villswood quarter staff firmly into the ground near a siren and jerk the weapon sharply sideways.
A siren's feet are swept roughly from under her!
... 7 points of damage!

** Your quarter staff releases a blast of vibrating energy! **

... 20 points of damage!
Good blow to back!
The siren is stunned!
Roundtime: 5 sec.

[BriarFox]

Nice trips. Are you still at .75x THW and .5x CM? If so, there goes the theory that you need better than 1x CM to get Trip to work. I still think it's largely level-based, dependent on your ranks in Trip (1 = underhunting, 3 = like level success, 5 = uphunting).

[Tumbadoo]

I have not made any changes to the build I posted earlier. Also at 5 ranks of trip.

[droit]

Sirens, executioners and dissemblers are all 4 or more levels below you and are also the easiest targets to 1-shot with spike thorn. How does trip do against combatants, radicals and magi?

[Tumbadoo]

[Roll result: 150 (open d100: 64) Penalties: 0]
With a fluid whirl, you plant a villswood quarter staff firmly into the ground near a triton radical and jerk the weapon sharply sideways.
A triton radical's feet are swept roughly from under him!
... 7 points of damage!
Torn muscle in the triton radical's left leg!
Roundtime: 5 sec.
R>prep 616
> cast at radical
...wait 1 seconds.
...wait 1 seconds.
R>prep 616
> cast at radical
You gesture while summoning the spirits of nature to aid you with the Spike Thorn spell...
Your spell is ready.
>
You gesture at a triton radical.

Dozens of long thorns suddenly grow out from the ground underneath a triton radical! Several of the thorns jab into the radical!
... hits for 21 points of damage!
... 25 points of damage!
Shot knocks the triton radical's head back by pushing on the inside of the skull!
The triton radical gurgles once and goes still, a wrathful look on his face.
The dully illuminated mantle protecting a triton radical begins to falter, then completely fades away.
A white glow rushes away from a triton radical.
The dull golden nimbus fades from around a triton radical.
The brilliant aura fades away from a triton radical.
The very powerful look leaves a triton radical.
The white light leaves a triton radical.
The warm glow fades from around a triton radical.
A triton radical seems slightly different.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
> stance def

[Tumbadoo]

[Roll result: 24 (open d100: 14) Penalties: 0]
With a fluid whirl, you plant a villswood quarter staff firmly into the ground near a triton combatant and jerk the weapon sharply sideways.
The triton combatant deftly avoids the stroke. The quarter staff flies harmlessly aside.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
R>
A triton combatant thrusts with an oak-shafted silvery blue trident at you!
AS: +424 vs DS: +503 with AvD: +28 + d100 roll: +72 = +21
A clean miss.
R> stance off
> cman trip comb
You are now in an offensive stance.
>
[Roll result: 59 (open d100: 36) Penalties: 0]
With a fluid whirl, you plant a villswood quarter staff firmly into the ground near a triton combatant and jerk the weapon sharply sideways.
The triton combatant deftly avoids the stroke. The quarter staff flies harmlessly aside.
Roundtime: 5 sec

[BriarFox]

You've got an 84% chance for success against that radical. Nice. Combatant on the other hand ...

See if you can get some appraisals in against what you're tripping.

[droit]

Yeah, that's a good margin vs. the radical. I'm not surprised about the combatant defending against it so well since they're the warrior class. It's too bad though, because they're the ones it would be really nice to prone with RT before spiking. Since they don't stun, if you knock em down with your first spike, chances are they'll stand up before your second.

[BriarFox]

If you ever get some extra CMAN points, try training up Sweep. In my experience, it tends to work against warriors pretty well since it's not one of their skills (though it's not so great with rogues, obviously).

[Danical]

If you ever get some extra CMAN points, try training up Sweep. In my experience, it tends to work against warriors pretty well since it's not one of their skills (though it's not so great with rogues, obviously).

This is generally true. I would try sweep if you're not a small race.

[Danical]

Also, I'd like to see what it would look like if you had 125-150 Ranger Ranks.

There might not be a need for proning!

[Tumbadoo]

Ok tweaked it a little more. Here is the new training plan and just a few combat shots.


Glanvis (at level 100), your base skill bonuses, ranks and goals are:
Skill Name | Actual Actual
| Bonus Ranks Goals In-Game Time to Goal
Armor Use..........................| 120 30 30
Combat Maneuvers...................| 151 51 51
Physical Fitness...................| 201 101 101
Dodging............................| 201 101 101
Arcane Symbols.....................| 105 25 25
Magic Item Use.....................| 130 35 35
Harness Power......................| 302 202 202
Spirit Mana Control................| 120 30 30
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 180 80 80
Perception.........................| 120 30 30
Climbing...........................| 120 30 30
Swimming...........................| 150 50 50

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 30 30

Spell Lists
Ranger.............................| 125 125

Dozens of long thorns suddenly grow out from the ground underneath a triton dissembler! Several of the thorns jab into the dissembler!
... hits for 22 points of damage!
... 35 points of damage!
Well placed shot pierces knee, that hurt!
It is knocked to the ground!
The triton dissembler is stunned!
... hits for 24 points of damage!
... 40 points of damage!
Great shot penetrates thigh and shatters bone!
... hits for 20 points of damage!
... 30 points of damage!
Strike to temple! Saved by a thick skull!
... hits for 40 points of damage!
... 40 points of damage!
Strong strike, punctures lung!
The triton dissembler gurgles once and goes still, a wrathful look on her face.
The deep blue glow leaves a triton dissembler.
A triton dissembler loses its focused look.
A shadow seems to detach itself from a triton dissembler, swiftly dissipating into the air.
The dull golden nimbus fades from around a triton dissembler.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.



Dozens of long thorns suddenly grow out from the ground underneath an ethereal triton sentry! Several of the thorns jab into the sentry!
... hits for 24 points of damage!
... 30 points of damage!
Strong assault amputates the leg at the knee.
It floats in the air a moment before drifting back into place!
It is knocked to the ground!
... hits for 33 points of damage!
... 35 points of damage!
Vicious blow to neck might have been fatal a few centuries ago.
... hits for 17 points of damage!
... 40 points of damage!
Incredible strike to the triton sentry's back smashes through the chest!
Too bad it melts back together.
... hits for 26 points of damage!
... 40 points of damage!
Hard blast to the side of the left eye.
Strike carries right on through the bridge of the nose,
the other eye, and the rest of the head!
The triton sentry emits a hollow scream as ribbons of essence begin to wend away from him and into nothingness!
The bright luminescence fades from around an ethereal triton sentry.
The deep blue glow leaves an ethereal triton sentry.
A shadow seems to detach itself from an ethereal triton sentry, swiftly dissipating into the air.
The dull golden nimbus fades from around an ethereal triton sentry.
The brilliant luminescence fades from around an ethereal triton sentry.
An ethereal triton sentry glances around, looking a bit less confident.
The silvery luminescence fades from around an ethereal triton sentry.

You gesture.
You close your eyes in a moment of intense concentration, channeling the pure natural power of your surroundings. As you continue to gather the energy, a low thrumming resounds through the area. Suddenly, a multitude of sharp pieces of debris splinter off from underfoot, savagely assailing everything around you!
The surroundings advance upon a water elemental with relentless fury!
CS: +453 - TD: +341 + CvA: +25 + d100: +74 == +211
Warding failed!
A water elemental is struck by a sharp piece of hard debris!
... 37 points of damage!
... 30 points of damage!
... 30 points of damage!
It is knocked to the ground!
... 50 points of damage!
The surroundings advance upon a triton dissembler with relentless fury!
The dull golden nimbus surrounding a triton dissembler suddenly begins to glow brightly.
CS: +453 - TD: +297 + CvA: +25 + d100: +41 == +222
Warding failed!
A cluster of hard debris collides with a triton dissembler!
... 39 points of damage!
... 40 points of damage!
Right arm is torn from shoulder!
The dissembler's deep cerulean runestaff falls to the ground.
The triton dissembler is stunned!
... 50 points of damage!
Massive blow to back separates vertebrae!
It is knocked to the ground!
... 45 points of damage!
Every bone in the left arm shattered and scattered about!
... 50 points of damage!
Massive blow to abdomen!
As swiftly as the chaos came to be, it recedes again into the surroundings.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

Dozens of long thorns suddenly grow out from the ground underneath a siren! Several of the thorns jab into the siren!
... hits for 10 points of damage!
... 40 points of damage!
It is knocked to the ground!
The siren is stunned!
... hits for 36 points of damage!
... 35 points of damage!
Awesome shot shatters ribs and punctures lung!
... hits for 24 points of damage!
... 40 points of damage!
Shot to back shatters bone and vertebrae!
The siren gives a plaintive wail before she slumps to her side and dies.
The brilliant luminescence fades from around a siren.

[BriarFox]

Are you relying purely on dodging and spells for defense then? Nice CS and thorns there. And I like the armor at 30 for brig, though I'd probably stay mostly in doubles.

Curious to see how it works out.

[Danical]

That Sentry shot was pretty awesome.

[droit]

Those are significantly better. Awesome. Could you do me a favor and post some of your worst shots too? I'd like to see how high the minimum has been raised by your extra ranger ranks.

[thefarmer]

Ok tweaked it a little more. Here is the new training plan and just a few combat shots.


Glanvis (at level 100), your base skill bonuses, ranks and goals are:
Skill Name | Actual Actual
| Bonus Ranks Goals In-Game Time to Goal
Armor Use..........................| 120 30 30
Combat Maneuvers...................| 151 51 51
Physical Fitness...................| 201 101 101
Dodging............................| 201 101 101
Arcane Symbols.....................| 105 25 25
Magic Item Use.....................| 130 35 35
Harness Power......................| 302 202 202
Spirit Mana Control................| 120 30 30
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 180 80 80
Perception.........................| 120 30 30
Climbing...........................| 120 30 30
Swimming...........................| 150 50 50

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 30 30

Spell Lists
Ranger.............................| 125 125



Much more PWN without the wasted Twohander points.

[Tumbadoo]

the sentries get their revenge....

An ethereal triton sentry points an ethereal, clawed finger toward you!
CS: +448 - TD: +386 + CvA: +12 + d100: +43 - -5 == +122
Warding failed!
You twist in great pain!

You take 40 damage!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>
An ethereal triton sentry points an ethereal, clawed finger toward you!
CS: +451 - TD: +386 + CvA: +12 + d100: +65 - -5 == +147
Warding failed!
You feel a surge of intense energy suddenly tear violently at your body! You feel drained!
... and hits for 22 points of damage!
... 31 points of damage!
Right leg horribly scorched. Won't be usable for weeks.
You fall screaming to the ground grasping your mangled right leg!
You are stunned for 8 rounds!
... 31 points of damage!
An icy slash across the lower back slices deep into your muscle!
... 36 points of damage!
Left eye socket explodes in a dazzling array of multi-colored sparks. Shocking death.
The light blue glow leaves you.
The air calms down around you.
You feel the gathering of nature's power leave you.
The deep blue glow leaves you.
The dull golden nimbus fades from around you.
You feel the aura of confidence leave you.
The very powerful look leaves you.
The white light leaves you.
The misty halo fades from you.
The air about you stops shimmering.
You are no longer moving silently.
The powerful look leaves you.
You return to normal color.
Your SIGN OF WARDING is no longer effective.
You feel the inner strength leave you.
Your SIGN OF SHIELDS is no longer effective.
Like a faint wisp of a barely-remembered dream, your brief, enhanced comprehension of arcane mysteries slips away.
You no longer feel so dextrous.
You seem to lose the thorny barrier that surrounds you.
Your SIGN OF DEFENDING is no longer effective

[Tumbadoo]

Dozens of long thorns suddenly grow out from the ground underneath a siren! Several of the thorns jab into the siren!
... hits for 30 points of damage!
... 35 points of damage!
The siren is stunned!
... hits for 40 points of damage!
... 30 points of damage!
It is knocked to the ground!
... hits for 15 points of damage!
... 35 points of damage!
Awesome shot shatters spine and punctures lung!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

ozens of long thorns suddenly grow out from the ground underneath a triton combatant! Several of the thorns jab into the combatant!
... hits for 11 points of damage!
... 25 points of damage!
Well placed shot pierces knee, that hurt!
It is knocked to the ground!
... hits for 28 points of damage!
... 25 points of damage!
Damaging strike to chest, several ribs shattered!
... hits for 22 points of damage!
... 25 points of damage!
Slash across back of hand, tendons sliced!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

Dozens of long thorns suddenly grow out from the ground underneath a siren! Several of the thorns jab into the siren!
... hits for 10 points of damage!
... 40 points of damage!
It is knocked to the ground!
The siren is stunned!
... hits for 27 points of damage!
... 30 points of damage!
Deft strike to the back cracks vertebrae!
... hits for 10 points of damage!
... 35 points of damage!
Awesome shot shatters ribs and punctures lung!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
(Forcing stance down to guarded)





Dozens of long thorns suddenly grow out from the ground underneath a triton combatant! Several of the thorns jab into the combatant!
... hits for 20 points of damage!
... 35 points of damage!
Blow shatters knee and severs lower leg!
A triton combatant falls to the ground grasping her mangled right leg!
... hits for 22 points of damage!
... 30 points of damage!
Impressive shot shatters wrist!
... hits for 32 points of damage!
... 30 points of damage!
Well aimed strike shatters bone in left arm!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

Dozens of long thorns suddenly grow out from the ground underneath a spectral triton defender! Several of the thorns jab into the defender!
... hits for 18 points of damage!
... 35 points of damage!
Painful attack flays the leg from thigh to calf.
New skin lies, snakelike, beneath the old.
... hits for 23 points of damage!
... 40 points of damage!
Massive blow obliterates the left knee.
The triton defender falters as a sickly light flows freely down its leg.
It is knocked to the ground!
... hits for 40 points of damage!
... 30 points of damage!
Attack whistles right through the lower back encountering little resistance!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

Dozens of long thorns suddenly grow out from the ground underneath a spectral triton defender! Several of the thorns jab into the defender!
... hits for 16 points of damage!
... 30 points of damage!
Strong assault amputates the leg at the knee.
It floats in the air a moment before drifting back into place!
It is knocked to the ground!
... hits for 33 points of damage!
... 30 points of damage!
Strong strike splits the belly open, revealing ghostly organs.
Haggis anyone?
... hits for 10 points of damage!
... 25 points of damage!
Attack whistles right through the chest!
It's like fighting fog!
... hits for 40 points of damage!
... 25 points of damage!
A fine blow splits the back of the hand.
Tendrils of vapor intertwine as the wound seals before your eyes.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
(Forcing stance down to guarded)



Dozens of long thorns suddenly grow out from the ground underneath a triton radical! Several of the thorns jab into the radical!
... hits for 32 points of damage!
... 30 points of damage!
Strike pierces calf!
It is knocked to the ground!
... hits for 14 points of damage!
... 30 points of damage!
Well placed strike shatters a rib!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

Dozens of long thorns suddenly grow out from the ground underneath a triton radical! Several of the thorns jab into the radical!
... hits for 13 points of damage!
... 30 points of damage!
Strike pierces calf!
It is knocked to the ground!
... hits for 19 points of damage!
... 25 points of damage!
Strike just below the jaw, nice shot to the neck!
... hits for 21 points of damage!
... 25 points of damage!
Strike pierces gall bladder!
That's gotta hurt!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds

Dozens of long thorns suddenly grow out from the ground underneath a triton executioner! Several of the thorns jab into the executioner!
... hits for 8 points of damage!
... 25 points of damage!
Well placed shot pierces knee, that hurt!
It is knocked to the ground!
The triton executioner is stunned!
... hits for 27 points of damage!
... 25 points of damage!
Damaging strike to chest, several ribs shattered!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

ozens of long thorns suddenly grow out from the ground underneath a water elemental! Several of the thorns jab into the elemental!
... hits for 19 points of damage!
... 20 points of damage!
... hits for 24 points of damage!
... 20 points of damage!
... hits for 12 points of damage!
... 15 points of damage!
... hits for 39 points of damage!
... 25 points of damage!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.


Dozens of long thorns suddenly grow out from the ground underneath a triton magus! Several of the thorns jab into the magus!
... hits for 25 points of damage!
... 30 points of damage!
Strike pierces calf!
It is knocked to the ground!
The triton magus is stunned!
... hits for 28 points of damage!
... 25 points of damage!
Strike connects with shoulder blade!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
(Forcing stance down to guarded)
>
Geez! It's still alive! Not a good time for that.
>prep 616
> cast at magus
> search magus
Wait 1 sec.
>
You don't have a spell prepared!
>
Geez! It's still alive! Not a good time for that.
>prep 616
> cast at magus
> search magus
You gesture while summoning the spirits of nature to aid you with the Spike Thorn spell...
Your spell is ready.
>
You gesture at a triton magus.

Dozens of long thorns suddenly grow out from the ground underneath a triton magus! Several of the thorns jab into the magus!
... hits for 21 points of damage!
... 30 points of damage!
Strike pierces calf!
... hits for 39 points of damage!
... 40 points of damage!
Great shot penetrates thigh and shatters bone!
... hits for 16 points of damage!
... 30 points of damage!
Nailed in lower back!
... hits for 31 points of damage!
The triton magus gurgles once and goes still, a wrathful look on her face.
The bright luminescence fades from around a triton magus.
A triton magus seems to lose an aura of confidence.
A triton magus is no longer moving so silently.
A triton magus appears less powerful.
The brilliant luminescence fades from around a triton magus.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

[Danical]

the sentries get their revenge....

An ethereal triton sentry points an ethereal, clawed finger toward you!
CS: +448 - TD: +386 + CvA: +12 + d100: +43 - -5 == +122
Warding failed!
You twist in great pain!

You take 40 damage!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>
An ethereal triton sentry points an ethereal, clawed finger toward you!
CS: +451 - TD: +386 + CvA: +12 + d100: +65 - -5 == +147
Warding failed!
You feel a surge of intense energy suddenly tear violently at your body! You feel drained!
... and hits for 22 points of damage!
... 31 points of damage!
Right leg horribly scorched. Won't be usable for weeks.
You fall screaming to the ground grasping your mangled right leg!
You are stunned for 8 rounds!
... 31 points of damage!
An icy slash across the lower back slices deep into your muscle!
... 36 points of damage!
Left eye socket explodes in a dazzling array of multi-colored sparks. Shocking death.
The light blue glow leaves you.
The air calms down around you.
You feel the gathering of nature's power leave you.
The deep blue glow leaves you.
The dull golden nimbus fades from around you.
You feel the aura of confidence leave you.
The very powerful look leaves you.
The white light leaves you.
The misty halo fades from you.
The air about you stops shimmering.
You are no longer moving silently.
The powerful look leaves you.
You return to normal color.
Your SIGN OF WARDING is no longer effective.
You feel the inner strength leave you.
Your SIGN OF SHIELDS is no longer effective.
Like a faint wisp of a barely-remembered dream, your brief, enhanced comprehension of arcane mysteries slips away.
You no longer feel so dextrous.
You seem to lose the thorny barrier that surrounds you.
Your SIGN OF DEFENDING is no longer effective

If you're hunting sentries, FFS, get 401, 406, 414, and use SIGN OF DISSIPATION.

Otherwise, you're asking to get your ass handed to you.

[droit]

Also use 712 scrolls and 508 imbeds.

[droit]

I went and did a crazy thing...

Droit (at level 100), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 120 30
Combat Maneuvers...................| 190 90
Ranged Weapons.....................| 302 202
Physical Fitness...................| 302 202
Dodging............................| 175 75
Arcane Symbols.....................| 120 30
Magic Item Use.....................| 105 25
Harness Power......................| 201 101
Spirit Mana Control................| 120 30
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 201 101
Perception.........................| 240 140
Climbing...........................| 90 20
Swimming...........................| 160 60
First Aid..........................| 40 8

Spell Lists
Ranger.............................| 50
Training Points: 3398 Phy 2599 Mnt

Those right there are enough training points to learn another 152 spells. I'm going to do some incremental testing of 616 all the way up to 202 ranger ranks. I might even one day pluck up the courage to analyze those tests. Anyway, stay tuned for displays of potentially mind-blowing rangerness.

[Drew]

Awesome!

[Fallen]

Awesome!

I know this build isn't quite as viable as a pure Bard, but I don't think a pure Paladin could happen at all. They lack any means other than getting a higher CS to up the damage of their spells.

[Danical]

The main reason Paladins can't be pures is because they were coded after the GS4 change.

1030 and 616 both were coded during GS3 and they never expected people to overtrain spells each level. Additionally, in GS4 you're now able to fixskills into pure routes after you've slaved long enough to make them viable. Because of this, you can abuse the current paradigm of 1-1.25x spells Semis should have.

I think they saw this coming with Paladins especially since they're only expected to train .75x per level in spells. Although, 1615 is a damn good chance of kneeling a target, forcing it into more offensive stances, giving RT and the crits are uncapped and rather nasty.

All in all, I think it's a pretty good setup/attack spell.

[Fallen]

The main reason Paladins can't be pures is because they were coded after the GS4 change.

1030 and 616 both were coded during GS3 and they never expected people to overtrain spells each level. Additionally, in GS4 you're now able to fixskills into pure routes after you've slaved long enough to make them viable. Because of this, you can abuse the current paradigm of 1-1.25x spells Semis should have.

Well said. Good point.

[Fallen]

I think they saw this coming with Paladins especially since they're only expected to train .75x per level in spells. Although, 1615 is a damn good chance of kneeling a target, forcing it into more offensive stances, giving RT and the crits are uncapped and rather nasty.

All in all, I think it's a pretty good setup/attack spell.

Stupid editor of POSTS!

It needs SOME WAY of increasing the damage output. NONE of their DD spells have a means on increasing the damage. I think the best way is additional spell ranks. This way, if someone had 80+ spells their attacks actually do more damage with the same endroll as someone with 30.

[Danical]

Stupid editor of POSTS!

It needs SOME WAY of increasing the damage output. NONE of their DD spells have a means on increasing the damage. I think the best way is additional spell ranks. This way, if someone had 80+ spells their attacks actually do more damage with the same endroll as someone with 30.

Absolutely. The direct damage is severely limited. You wouldn't want to cast 1615 4 or 5 times on non-corp things.

If you're simply trying to crit things, it's not a bad route. Personally, as a paladin, I would have a set up of shield/OHB and super spell heavy. I would use 1615 as the first attack and then head ambush with a morning star if needed.

Still, you're not going to get the efficiency of 1030 or 616. It's just not in the cards for Paladins.

[Fallen]

Absolutely. The direct damage is severely limited. You wouldn't want to cast 1615 4 or 5 times on non-corp things.

If you're simply trying to crit things, it's not a bad route. Personally, as a paladin, I would have a set up of shield/OHB and super spell heavy. I would use 1615 as the first attack and then head ambush with a morning star if needed.

Still, you're not going to get the efficiency of 1030 or 616. It's just not in the cards for Paladins.

No. 1030 is unbalanced, and 616 is a maneuver based spell. I am simply stating that it is stupid that Paladins have no means of increasing the damage of any of their spells.

[Danical]

No. 1030 is unbalanced, and 616 is a maneuver based spell. I am simply stating that it is stupid that Paladins have no means of increasing the damage of any of their spells.

And I'm simply stating it's just not in the cards for paladins nor will it ever be but while the current PTB are in control. It's something I think they should have the option of training in, though. Religion lore makes the most sense for 1615.

We can agree 1030 is grossly overpowered; it's just unreasonable.

[Fallen]

And I'm simply stating it's just not in the cards for paladins nor will it ever be but while the current PTB are in control. It's something I think they should have the option of training in, though. Religion lore makes the most sense for 1615.

We can agree 1030 is grossly overpowered; it's just unreasonable.

I think 1614 is good because the amount of targets are uncapped, and 1630 is ..questionable for a level 30 spell, but likely shouldn't get more overall damage.

1615 is a single target spell. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect more damage out of the spell when it is only capable of targeting a single target. Nor would most Paladins have the means to easily increase said damage. It would just be a spell that grows with the Paladin as they head towards, arrive, and eventually pass the cap.

[Danical]

I think 1614 is good because the amount of targets are uncapped, and 1630 is ..questionable for a level 30 spell, but likely shouldn't get more overall damage.

1615 is a single target spell. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect more damage out of the spell when it is only capable of targeting a single target. Nor would most Paladins have the means to easily increase said damage. It would just be a spell that grows with the Paladin as they head towards, arrive, and eventually pass the cap.

I'm on board with that. Incidentally, what's the DF of 1615 (if constant)? I's .6 for 1030 which is pretty fucking nuts considering I have a average warding margin of like 150. Oh, also, the crit damage for 1030 is completely FUBAR'd; the crits shouldn't be going past 60 or 70 damage as per the actual damage of the crit.

CS: +522 - TD: +340 + CvA: +9 + d100: +80 == +271
Warding failed!
A Grimswarm troll ranger reels under the force of the sonic vibrations!
Sound waves disrupt for 138 damage!
... 120 points of damage!
Heart explodes rupturing the troll ranger's chest.
[You have earned 55 prestige points.]
The troll ranger falls to the ground and dies.

Clearly, that's not happening; that should, at max, be a 70 damage crit.

[Danical]

Oh, I also think 1614 shouldn't be purely level based if you succeed in warding the target. I fucking hate that.

I think if you have a really high outcome, you should be able to immobilize a creature of any level. Obviously, the higher level the creature, the harder because TD is higher but you should still have the ability to get the higher effects of the spell if you train hard for it. Or, at the very least, the paladin should be able to mitigate the level difference with a high outcome.

[BriarFox]

Cool, Droit. It's funny to see you going ranged/pure. You're going to be hurting a bit in terms of DS with the lowish dodge and perception (which factors into ranged DS), but should mostly be all right. Looking forward to your test results.

[droit]

Yeah, my DS is a bit low right now (in the mid 400's with wizard spells and a statue). However, this is with only 50 ranger ranks. Once I train up all 152 more, I'll be getting +76 generic DS and 152 more dodging ranks. I'm also only using a 4x bow at the moment, so another +10-15 there.

[droit]

I will say, however, that so far my all of my previous complaints about archery being overpowered are totally proving to be correct. And that's only with a 415 AS.

[BriarFox]

I will say, however, that so far my all of my previous complaints about archery being overpowered are totally proving to be correct. And that's only with a 415 AS.

You've skipped all the shit of the first 40 levels, though. Also, it has other downsides. No reason to go into the debate here, though.

[Tumbadoo]

You gesture.
You close your eyes in a moment of intense concentration, channeling the pure natural power of your surroundings. As you continue to gather the energy, a low thrumming resounds through the area. Suddenly, a multitude of sharp pieces of debris splinter off from underfoot, savagely assailing everything around you!
The surroundings advance upon an ethereal triton sentry with relentless fury!
The dull golden nimbus surrounding an ethereal triton sentry suddenly begins to glow brightly.
CS: +453 - TD: +359 + CvA: +25 + d100: +16 == +135
Warding failed!
One of the large, pointed slivers of hard debris hits an ethereal triton sentry!
... 22 points of damage!
... 10 points of damage!
Wild attack passes through the left leg, viciously assaulting the air!
It is knocked to the ground!
... 20 points of damage!
Strike swipes cleanly through the abdomen, but seals up a moment later!
... 15 points of damage!
Decent shot to the left eye would have blinded a normal foe!
... 15 points of damage!
Hit passes right through the midsection.
Nothing hurts like an empty stomach.
The surroundings advance upon an ethereal triton sentry with relentless fury!
The dull golden nimbus surrounding an ethereal triton sentry suddenly begins to glow brightly.
CS: +453 - TD: +351 + CvA: +25 + d100: +74 == +201
Warding failed!
An ethereal triton sentry is struck by a sharp piece of hard debris!
... 35 points of damage!
... 20 points of damage!
Strong hit rips arm from wrist to elbow.
The wound vanishes as the ethereal flesh swirls around in chaotic patterns.
... 25 points of damage!
Good hit!
Left shoulder is ripped from its socket then wriggles back into place.
... 20 points of damage!
Strong hit rips arm from wrist to elbow.
The wound vanishes as the ethereal flesh swirls around in chaotic patterns.
... 25 points of damage!
Good hit!
Left shoulder is ripped from its socket then wriggles back into place.
The surroundings advance upon an ethereal triton sentry with relentless fury!
The dull golden nimbus surrounding an ethereal triton sentry suddenly begins to glow brightly.
CS: +453 - TD: +359 + CvA: +25 + d100: +66 == +185
Warding failed!
An ethereal triton sentry is struck by a sharp piece of hard debris!
... 32 points of damage!
... 20 points of damage!
Hard shot to the triton sentry's back sends it drifting forward!
... 30 points of damage!
Strong hit to the chest!
Tendrils of mist explode as the strike passes right through.
... 20 points of damage!
Strong hit rips arm from wrist to elbow.
The wound vanishes as the ethereal flesh swirls around in chaotic patterns.
... 25 points of damage!
Good hit!
Right shoulder is ripped from its socket, then wriggles back into place.
The surroundings advance upon an ethereal triton sentry with relentless fury!
The dull golden nimbus surrounding an ethereal triton sentry suddenly begins to glow brightly.
CS: +453 - TD: +359 + CvA: +25 + d100: +35 == +154
Warding failed!
A cluster of hard debris collides with an ethereal triton sentry!
... 25 points of damage!
... 20 points of damage!
Hard shot to the triton sentry's back sends it drifting forward!
... 10 points of damage!
Wild attack passes through the right leg, viciously assaulting the air!
... 10 points of damage!
Large gash to the left arm seals as strike passes through.
... 10 points of damage!
Nasty strike to the right eye causes it to dim a moment.
As swiftly as the chaos came to be, it recedes again into the surroundings.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
(Forcing stance down to guarded)

[Fallen]

Nice damage to endroll ratio.

[Tumbadoo]

I can't wait to see what Droit eventually puts up.

[droit]

Since I'm not optimizing for CS, I'd estimate my final CS will be about 480ish.

[Mtenda]

Since I'm not optimizing for CS, I'd estimate my final CS will be about 480ish.

That's pretty damn good for a ranger isn't it?

[BriarFox]

That's pretty damn good for a ranger isn't it?

Probably the best in the game.

[droit]

Almost definitely the best in the game. Prior to this recent "druid" fad (to which I have succumbed), the ranger with the most spells was, to my knowledge, Odysia. I think she has something like 40 minor spirit ranks and 101 ranger ranks, if I remember correctly. That would give her a CS of about 440ish. Very few rangers even train past 650 these days (I used to be 30MnS/71ranger and had a CS of 406), so unless there's a post-cap ranger living his life as a solitary hermit on the Dead Plateau or something, I doubt there's anyone higher.

[BriarFox]

One thing it is important to remember, Droit, is that you start to see diminishing returns in CS past your level, and some spells, like 613, don't give extra benefits past your level. The important one (616) does, though. Not sure if you've accounted for that.

[droit]

I did. That's what I meant when I said I wasn't optimizing for CS. If I was, I'd do 160 ranger and 42 minor spirit. However, having just done the calculations, the difference in optimized CS and 202 ranger ranks is...three. 473 vs. 470, for Droit. Hah. Guess my test will work for 635, too.

[droit]

some spells, like 613, don't give extra benefits past your level.

Hmm. Where'd you hear that? I was really hoping I could get some sick DS from 613.

[BriarFox]

Hmm. Where'd you hear that? I was really hoping I could get some sick DS from 613.

Sadly, here:

613 · Self Control [SELFCONTR]
Duration: 1200 seconds + 60 seconds for every Ranger spell known; cumulative

Type: Defense/Utility

This powerful spell will allow the caster to focus her will, as well as energy from the natural surroundings, and set up a powerful protection field around her. Self Control will not only offer physical protection by adding +20 Defense Strength (DS), except Bolt DS, +1 for every 2 Ranger Spell ranks beyond 13, but spell protection as well by adding +20 Spirit Target Defense (TD).

Self Control also provides a bonus to spotting and disarming traps while utilizing the DISARM command on treasure boxes. This bonus is increased by training in the Ranger spell circle.

Additionally, Self Control assists the caster in resisting certain fear-based attacks.

Archers and hurlers who are AIMing, receive an increasing bonus in the chance to hit their mark, which is based on Ranger spell ranks.

Training in Spiritual Lore, Blessings provides an additional Spirit Target Defense bonus of +1 at 5 ranks, to a maximum of +10 at 95 ranks.

Unlike many other spells that have increasing bonuses, Self Control's mana cost does not increase; the mana cost is 13 per cast.

Overtraining in Ranger spell ranks does not yield additional bonus past the caster's level.

[BriarFox]

Hmm. Where'd you hear that? I was really hoping I could get some sick DS from 613.

I think 618 will work overtrained, though. It doesn't say otherwise, at least. And those dodging ranks are amazing.

[Danical]

BUT WHAT ABOUT MOBILITY?!?!!

[BriarFox]

BUT WHAT ABOUT MOBILITY?!?!!

^^^^^!!!

[droit]

Fucking fine print. :( :( :(

I guess it just gives me more incentive to drop spell ranks into minor spirit after I'm done testing.

[Danical]

^^^^^!!!

DAMN YOU!!!!!!!1

[Fallen]

Most defensive spells don't go past 100 ranks in terms of benefits. Those that do are the exception to the rule. Keep in mind, guys, that pures often spell tank. You just made your semi into a pure. Start spell tanking. You get pretty damn good durations on spells using the RAISE modifier for something like Thurfel's Ward and 101 ranks of MIU.