Simu Layoffs

[Deathravin]

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/174/view/forums/post/2677926#2677926

how did something like

As a former volunteer GM for Hero's Journey, I'm in the loop as far as goings-on at Simutronics.
The layoffs are true. There are now 6 employees still remaining at the Simutronics headquarters. Dave tried very hard to prevent this, but in the end, HeroEngine wasn't selling well enough to support the team anymore.
Simutronics will continue to develop and support HeroEngine, but Hero's Journey is on indefinite hiatus until Simu can get out of this rut.
Personally, I think Hero's Journey is vaporware. Having actually worked on the game, I can say that with some authority.
This is too bad, because it had a lot of potential. HeroEngine really is a very solid engine, and I had a blast using it.
Slip by us? This happened on the 20th for God sake.

I understand this is a Hero's Journey post, but if there really are 6 employees left at Simu headquarters I think it affects more than just HJ.

[Soulpieced]

And who honestly thought that Hero's Journey would ever be released? I sure didn't.

[Deathravin]

Hero's Journey aside... can anybody confirm or deny that Simu had layoffs?

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I heard Beth in billing was one of the ones let go.

[DCSL]

OMG, is Skippy still okay?! More seriously, how about Mike?

[Gan]

And who honestly thought that Hero's Journey would ever be released? I sure didn't.

My thoughts exactly.

[Deathravin]

My thoughts exactly.

I guess a lot of people here don't play GS anymore, but if this is true, who cares about HJ coming out or not. This is possibly the death of Simu all together.

[Belnia]

The rumors I've been hearing are that they let approximately half (around 25 employees) at the Saint Louis office go. I think the real news is that they had over 25 employees to let go.

I'm guessing it was non-essential employees, like the on-staff artists and probably most of the HJ team. Because HJ as a game is probably a pipe dream, though marketing the engine is still profitable.

[Soulpieced]

I guess a lot of people here don't play GS anymore, but if this is true, who cares about HJ coming out or not. This is possibly the death of Simu all together.

http://dutchhero.extraordinare.com/templates/subSilver/images/lmao.jpg

[Mtenda]

I guess a lot of people here don't play GS anymore, but if this is true, who cares about HJ coming out or not. This is possibly the death of Simu all together.

Everyone sell me your legacy items quickly for pennies on the dollar before they are worthless!

[Deathravin]

A 25 employee company can't die?

[Gan]

This is possibly the death of Simu all together.

ROFL

[Belnia]

A 25 employee company can't die?

Considering the operation costs for the pure text division, verse the profits it brings in, I would say Simutronics is still very viable as only a text based operation.

[Deathravin]

Well the only thing that's really got me somewhat worried is that we get 10 announcements if a single GM is fired. Yet you take out 1/2 the employees, and nothing? No comments at all?

Nothing?

[Belnia]

Simutronics has ALWAYS been very, very quiet about the goings-on of the company itself.

[That Jay]

For some inexplicable reason, this news is making me smile.

I can happily suggest several other "non-essential" employees among the GM staff if they are looking to recoup pizza money.

[Gan]

Well the only thing that's really got me somewhat worried is that we get 10 announcements if a single GM is fired. Yet you take out 1/2 the employees, and nothing? No comments at all?

Nothing?

Privately held company. No public statements are required or necessary, especially when, thus far, there's been no change in the level of service to their paying customers.

[Some Rogue]

Someone post it on the officials and see how fast it gets deleted. GO GO GO!

[Deathravin]

Especially when, thus far, there's been no change in the level of service to their paying customers.

You don't know that. Whole point of an official announcement is to put crazy people's minds at ease. Just because you assume there's been no change in the level of service, doesn't mean it's true.

[Belnia]

The only Simutronics people you deal with that are paid would be in the Billing department. ALL of the in-game staff (ie: GameMasters) are volunteer players and former players.

[That Jay]

Somebody did post in the HJ folders but it didn't last very long. Big surprise.

[Warriorbird]

I wonder what those GM share check totals are like now.

[Gan]

You don't know that. Whole point of an official announcement is to put crazy people's minds at ease. Just because you assume there's been no change in the level of service, doesn't mean it's true.

Since I'm a paying customer, and I have not noticed any change in the level of service or product that I receive from Simutronics... I would say your statement is incorrect.

Regardless of that, there still is no law, requirement, or rule that would forcibly compel Simutronics to issue a statement. They are a privately held company and can thus dictate their communication to the bare minimum the law requires - which does not include press releases about failed product lines or personnel changes from within.

Common sense may be another matter, but since when have we ever accused Simutronics of using common sense?

[SHAFT]

I'd be sad if they went out of business just because they've been a part of my life for hell, nearly half of my life. I just put my account on hold on Thursday because I hardly play any more. But 6 employees? God, to think I own a bigger company than Simu.

[Hulkein]

Is Whatley still driving his sweet 1992 Acura NSX?

[Tisket]

Maybe that poster, Lucas (?) will finally step up and buy Simu outright. Unless he spent all his money on more cars.

[Amaron]

Beth was awesome, that would suck if she was let go.

:(

[Deathravin]

Since I'm a paying customer, and I have not noticed any change in the level of service or product that I receive from Simutronics... I would say your statement is incorrect.
Just because your level of service hasn't change in the 8 days they've had these drastic layoffs... that doesn't mean it wont.
Since there's no official announcement about it, there's no way to know if it will or not.


Regardless of that, there still is no law, requirement, or rule that would forcibly compel Simutronics to issue a statement. They are a privately held company and can thus dictate their communication to the bare minimum the law requires - which does not include press releases about failed product lines or personnel changes from within.
Never said there was a law or requirement. But to keep people like myself from over-hyping this you would have thought they would release some sort of announcement, yes?


Common sense may be another matter, but since when have we ever accused Simutronics of using common sense?
Well never.

[Morrff]

OMG, is Skippy still okay?! More seriously, how about Mike?

Mike's still there, I've talked to him on the phone recently. Beth however I think might have gotten let go. Last I talked to Mike, he had mentioned something about cut backs too, I won't go into detail because I'm sure he does not want me to be quote posting him with what he told me. But according to him, it is not the sunniest of times he's seen at Simu.

I'm no doomsayer, GS will be around so long as there is 100 or so players, IMO.

[phantasm]

FAP FAP FAP


The death of Simu would be fucking fantastic.



Current

* Billing Superviso at Simutronics Corp


http://www.linkedin.com/pub/4/190/6ba



Watching for updates here

[aesir]

Simu isnt going to die. It's just that HJ will never become reality as a game, which is kinda sad... but who here REALLY believed that it was going to get made anyway? Yea,noone.

But in terms of their text based operations. Really, Whatley himself and one secretary (the phone lady) can pretty much run the whole show. Sure, customer service will come down and new coded parts of the game will slow to a non-existant stop. But, who cares?

What I'm really concerned about is Simu's debt levels. The fact that such a drastic cutoff of employees came so suddenly AND at the same time of the credit crisis is telling.

Remember, most businesses are getting shafted because there isn't enough demand for their products due to frozen credit slowing everything down. NOT Simu, population levels really haven't changed all that much from recent years. Thus the only conclusion is.

Simutronics borrowed heavily, possibly leveraging out property and even rights to GS/DR, in order to make HeroEngine. I was at first very suspicious of how such a small and out of date company can make a first class engine that of all people Bioware will use for their Lucas Films backed Old Republic MMO. I mean if BIOWARE is BUYING and not CREATING from scratch an engine think about the extreme amount of investment it takes to make a engine?

Some Facts:

@ The Age Of Conan (5th gen MMO) engine costs around 20 million US dollars to develop.

@ The Unreal Engine costs about 400,000 dollars to purchase (to purchase the license for commercial use)

That means Simu needed around 20 million to produce this engine and needs to sell quite a few licenses to make money off the engine. The fact is Simu as a company doesn't have that much to begin with AND if they did the company itself is fairly broke. Almost all games make their bread and butter off the TITLE (meaning the game in retail stores) and NOT licensing out the engine (although Unreal is so good a engine that it may break even on the licensing alone ... not including of course the several games themselves.)

So, what does this all mean? Whatley probably gambled he could sell enough licensing to funnel back into the main development of HJ. He also thought he could just borrow money but the economic crisis hit and most debt (especially risky game production debt) was frozen. Overall, this means that there might be a chance that Simu may need to file for Chapter 11 depending on leveranging and especially so if they can't find new financing.

[Tolwynn]

@ The Age Of Conan (5th gen MMO) engine cost around 20 million US dollars to develop.

The developers of this engine were also actually paid.

[aesir]

The developers of this engine were also actually paid.

If you think Simu hired an all volunteer programmer army to make an engine please tell me of them because my comapny needs programmers who work for free. Also, I can't believe Microsoft and Google haven't caught on yet, boy they are sure stupid to pay people 100k a year to work for them.

And note: Game Engines are probably HARDER to create then OS's or even search engines.

[Tisket]

Some Facts:



If you are going to pull "facts" and figures out of your ass fine, I've got no issue with that. But if you are going to claim they are real then include sources you fuckhead.

[Warriorbird]

Whatley pretty much got an engine from slave labor. These are just some of the poor saps who wrote it (one presumes).

[Belnia]

Incorrect. When the Hero's Journey project went into its first big re-write, where they scrapped it and decided to rebuild from the ground up, they hired on some of the bestest coders from the various games GM staff. Gemstone lost Mitra, Smite and a few others to this. They were paid employees of Simutronics at this point, actually drawing a paycheck to work on the Hero Engine and Hero's Journey project.

Any in-game staff, ie: GameMasters ARE NOT PAID EMPLOYEES OF THE COMPANY. I don't know how many times I need to say that. GameMasters ARE NOT PAID. People in the main office in Saint Louis are paid, full time employees. They are the ones who got laid off, not GameMasters.

[aesir]

Does that matter though? If the financial health of the company is in jeopardy (aka in very bad debt and insolvent) then everything else will be taken down.

On the upside, I think if Simu does go bankrupt from all this (I give it a 25% chance) then I think they'll sell their DR/GS franchise to someone else. And maybe fresh management will actually listen to players.

[Warriorbird]

I rather doubt the financial health of the company is in jeopardy. I mean... see how successful the last unknown person who posted here about 'buying the company' was.

[Tisket]

Layoffs are seldom the death knell of a business...

[Gan]

But to keep people like myself from over-hyping this you would have thought they would release some sort of announcement, yes?

Do you honestly think that you'll stop over-hyping even IF an announcement is released?

I dont. ;)

[Tisket]

A company willing to reduce expenses and restructure is hardly reason to fear the end of the product they put out. This "the sky is falling" shit is stupid.

[Tisket]

Hey, psst, by the way, I've got some characters for sale if anyone is interested. Cheap.

[Mtenda]

On the upside, I think if Simu does go bankrupt from all this (I give it a 25% chance) then I think they'll sell their DR/GS franchise to someone else. And maybe fresh management will actually listen to players.

Your ability to pull random facts and figures out of your ass just gets more and more impressive.

[That Jay]

He has a ticker tapeworm.

[Tisket]

lmao

[Belnia]

Hypothetically speaking, even if Simutronics as a company was in some sort of financial trouble, they would NEVER give up their products. These text based games are an amazing cash cow.

Very low operating costs compared to the profits they bring in.

[Summertime]

Well the only thing that's really got me somewhat worried is that we get 10 announcements if a single GM is fired. Yet you take out 1/2 the employees, and nothing? No comments at all?

Nothing?

I posted about Simu canceling HJ and pulling staff over 2 months ago.. don't remember what thread it was.. :(.. I also posted on the officials, but that was quietly pulled with no notice to me about it or why.. it just went *poof*

[thefarmer]

Very low operating costs compared to the profits they bring in.

Whatley's spending versus Simu profits is what I'm more interested in.

If Simu does go into a downward spiral, it'll be because of the rising cost of asian hookers and the coke he shoves up his nose..

[Warriorbird]

Given as my ex-wife was a GM, Belnia, GMs can very well be paid. It just isn't what you'd call a typical salary unless you work part time at McDonald's.

[Warriorbird]

I posted about Simu canceling HJ and pulling staff over 2 months ago.. don't remember what thread it was.. :(.. I also posted on the officials, but that was quietly pulled with no notice to me about it or why.. it just went *poof*

It's part of the 'anything negative about the company vanishes' rule.

[Sylvan Dreams]

No mention about staff at their remote offices?

[Renian]

4000 people/accounts playing at $15 a month on average is $720000 a year. I don't think Simu's going anywhere, stop flipping out. That doesn't even take into account MAing premies, which would probably bring Simu's revenue per year to $1m.

What this really means is that The Old Republic is going to one-up HJ on being released. But Simu will then get royalties from the game.

[thefarmer]

4000 people/accounts playing at $15 a month on average is $720000 a year. I don't think Simu's going anywhere, stop flipping out. That doesn't even take into account MAing premies, which would probably bring Simu's revenue per year to $1m..

How much does Whatley spend of that $1M on blow and hookers? It sure as hell isn't going to the game...

[Warriorbird]

720,000 I'd imagine.

[thefarmer]

That sounds too conservative.

[Solkern]

4000 people/accounts playing at $15 a month on average is $720000 a year. I don't think Simu's going anywhere, stop flipping out. That doesn't even take into account MAing premies, which would probably bring Simu's revenue per year to $1m.

What this really means is that The Old Republic is going to one-up HJ on being released. But Simu will then get royalties from the game.

now take into account, salary to employees, how much they pay for the office, bills, upkeep and other various things, that 1m, doesn't look so nice anymore))
yes you can add in DR but, still it doesn't look very nice

[thefarmer]

What salary?

[Warriorbird]

GMs, after they've reached a certain point, get approximately half of what you'd get working part time at McDonald's. I'm sure the actual programmers got paid lower end actual programmer rates and I hope they paid the office people well.

[Kembal]

Down to 6 people at the office is unlikely. Layoffs, however, would not surprise me. If a company isn't laying off/doing pay cuts at this moment in time, either they're in some special recession-proof industry that I'd like to start a business in, or they have bad management.

[Ashlander]

Down to 6 people at the office is unlikely. Layoffs, however, would not surprise me. If a company isn't laying off/doing pay cuts at this moment in time, either they're in some special recession-proof industry that I'd like to start a business in, or they have bad management.

Heh...

[BigWorm]

Guess that means I won't be getting hired on site any time soon.

[Methais]

The only Simutronics people you deal with that are paid would be in the Billing department. ALL of the in-game staff (ie: GameMasters) are volunteer players and former players.

Isn't Warden a paid on-site GM?

[phantasm]

Guess that means I won't be getting hired on site any time soon.

If your an attractive female between 18-21 your odds are still high.

[Danical]

Isn't Warden a paid on-site GM?

He says he lives in Connecticut and works for a defense contractor out there. My guess is no.

http://www.play.net/gs4/spotlight/spotlight.asp?gmName=Warden

[kookiegod]

[QUOTE=vulvamancer;900170]He says he lives in Connecticut and works for a defense contractor out there.

That would be correct.

Why would you lie about where you live or work anyways? Sheesh.

~Paul

[Danical]

I purposely put italics on it. It was supposed to be funny, haha.

Like I'm an 18/f/TX.

[Ashlander]

I purposely put italics on it. It was supposed to be funny, haha.

Like I'm an 18/f/TX.

How you doin'?

[TheRoseLady]

For some inexplicable reason, this news is making me smile.

I can happily suggest several other "non-essential" employees among the GM staff if they are looking to recoup pizza money.


:rofl:

[TheRoseLady]

Isn't Warden a paid on-site GM?

No, not unless he has moved to St. Louis in the past few years. He's an engineer who lives in CT, and works full time for some government contractor (at least that's how I remember it.)

He's really a great guy (despite current opinion) :D

Edited to add: I should read the whole thread first before replying.

[Warriorbird]

I just mainly blame him for believing in Lohlem.

[TheRoseLady]

I just mainly blame him for believing in Lohlem.

Okay I know Lohlem, but am lost here...

[Danical]

Crit randomization :(

[Summertime]

Why would you lie about where you live or work anyways? Sheesh.

~Paul

I R work for NASA and R live on MOON!

[Deadelf]

Any in-game staff, ie: GameMasters ARE NOT PAID EMPLOYEES OF THE COMPANY. I don't know how many times I need to say that. GameMasters ARE NOT PAID. People in the main office in Saint Louis are paid, full time employees. They are the ones who got laid off, not GameMasters.


They are paid, they just aren't employees in the typical sense. They are contractors and have to file their own taxes etc. But they are indeed paid from a pool as has been mentioned many times based on shares etc. It is a pittance as most of us know, but that wasnt the point being made.

As to the onsite lay offs, I've heard Beth, Russ and Jessika and all the HJ people. Russ/Gorlash has been there forever, that one surprised me he and Beth both surprised me at being let go. :(

[TheRoseLady]

Anyone know if Aaron is still there? He might have left ages ago but I don't keep up with GS except through PC.

[Deadelf]

Aaron was let go with lay offs, I knew I was forgetting someone. :(

[Daniel]

The real question is how many bricks does this have Tsin and his thousands of dollars shitting?

[Asha]

i thought tsin sold his shit and gtfo?
if he hasn't yet then awesome. At least I know somewhere, someone has gone completely insane when GS dies.

[Alfster]

Hrm. I thought the same thing.

[Danical]

He sold the bulk of his items and presumably cashed out the silvers as well; he hasn't played GS in months.

[Atlanteax]

Bleh, I was hoping he'd be stuck taking a massive loss on his "investment".

[Me]

They let Aaron go now that sucks he was just an wonderful person.

me

[Amaron]

Aaron was awesome.

Sad Panda face

[Wesley]

I heard that Simutronics had to sell all of its servers because it is not making enough money even after they fired all their employees. So now Gemstone is not run by computers. Simutronics is just one guy in an office and there is a room with 20 asian teenagers crunching numbers and making tones into tin cups on strings and that is the story of how we all play Gemstone. The End. By Wesley.

Edit:

This comes from a very reliable source!!! I KNOW people!

[Warriorbird]

OMFG! Who! Who is your source! TEL UZ!

[Avaya]

I heard that Simutronics had to sell all of its servers because it is not making enough money even after they fired all their employees. So now Gemstone is not run by computers. Simutronics is just one guy in an office and there is a room with 20 asian teenagers crunching numbers and making tones into tin cups on strings and that is the story of how we all play Gemstone. The End. By Wesley.

Edit:

This comes from a very reliable source!!! I KNOW people!


That explains why the game crashed today while I was swimming to the temple in Teras. Please tell Yollia (suspected source as mentioned above) to crunch numbers faster next time.:nutty:

[Sylvan Dreams]

I heard that Simutronics had to sell all of its servers because it is not making enough money even after they fired all their employees. So now Gemstone is not run by computers. Simutronics is just one guy in an office and there is a room with 20 asian teenagers crunching numbers and making tones into tin cups on strings and that is the story of how we all play Gemstone. The End. By Wesley.

Edit:

This comes from a very reliable source!!! I KNOW people!

If you googlemaps their Maryland offices, they look suspiciously like apartments.

Hmm.

[TheRoseLady]

They let Aaron go now that sucks he was just an wonderful person.

me

I'm really really really sorry to hear about Aaron. :(

[Tilnam]

monks soon?

[Hips]

monks soon?

RSN.

[Makkah]

Seriously this time. Really. rofl

[Warriorbird]

2011!

7 years after the original announcement!

[Deathravin]

http://members.cox.net/valendros/Savant.jpg

[Makkah]

Who the FUCK uses IE anymore?

[SHAFT]

i do. i don't like firefox

[diethx]

I also do. I like IE.

[Ashlander]

Heathens!

[Deathravin]

Firefox had 115 reported flaws in 2008, nearly four times as many as every other popular browser, and nearly twice as many as Microsoft and Apple combined

I don't trust FF. Or Chrome for that matter.

I use chrome for 90% of my surfing. But if I need to do any online banking or watch a movie on netflix, I use IE.

Microsoft will be the most secure software company in a very short while. You can't have 25+ years of fixing hacker vulnerabilities and not come out of it a more secure company. I trust MacOS least of all. Every contest I've seen where MacOS, Linux, and Microsoft go head-to-head(-to-head) in security, MacOS is always cracked fastest and worst. They just haven't been really tested and tried nearly as long or as hard as MS has.

[CrystalTears]

Firefox has started pissing me off lately. For some sites, the program sucks an incredible amount of memory... as in up to 250+MB that it nearly freezes and I have to force it to close. At home I gave up for a little while and have only been using IE, as much as I don't like it.

[Deathravin]

Chrome is lightweight and fast as hell. Love it.

[CrystalTears]

Chrome is lightweight and fast as hell. Love it.
And totally screws up the PC setup. It also lacks the Google toolbar, which makes ZERO sense to me since it's a GOOGLE browser, FFS. And I rely on that quite a bit.

[Deathravin]

Who actually WANTS google toolbar? That's why it's not in there, cause google toolbar is retarded and borderline malware.

How hard is it to browse to google?

Add 1 extra click and make it a link in the favorites bar. Lazy mcLazerson. (oh yes.... I dusted that badboy off, don't think I won't do it again).

[CrystalTears]

I keep all my bookmarks on there so that no matter what computer I use, I always have them.

And again, it messes up the format of PC so I wouldn't use it for reading the forums anyway, which is where I am most of the time I'm at work.

[Lohlem]

Oh... Warden listening to Lohlem lead to criticals being unlinked to a certain degree from the endroll and a vast slew of the less well thought out GS3-4 shifts.


I hear the Inspector was also responsible for the Krolvin wars, pre-nuptial agreements, and gout.

Lohlem