To GoS, or not to GoS!

[Widgets]

So recently, I've been pondering as to whether or not I want to remain a CoL master, or make the switch over to GoS with the Paladin.

I'm familiar with both ups and downs of each Society, however as it stands CoL really has NO down sides to it, but I know at some point it will and hopefully..As the CoL revamp kicks in. I however, just don't know when it will.

Now, my question to you is, should I make the switch now, or wait until CoL gets nerfed and see that GoS is more suited to my playstyle.

It's nice having the Extra AS, DS and TD CoL has to offer. So I'll be losing out on that if I make the switch since I'd have to start fresh with GoS.

My only concern is Sigil durations and not having enough stamina to upkeep them.

So, opinions? Shoves off a cliff, one way or the other?

[BriarFox]

Actually, one of the reasons I switched to GoS was because you get +20 TD, rather than +10. That and the padding/weighting, and the stamina to mana sigil ... I do miss the slightly higher AS and especially Staunching, though.

[Widgets]

Actually, one of the reasons I switched to GoS was because you get +20 TD, rather than +10. That and the padding/weighting, and the stamina to mana sigil ... I do miss the slightly higher AS and especially Staunching, though.

Yea, I'm not much concerned about Staunching due to my rather high DS in offensive, I rarely get hit and if I do, I am wearing the 6x MCP Plate.

But the extra TD is nice, as is Sigil of Resolve and the crit weighting one as well.

Another downside is there are no Cap Critters whom are hated enemies, so the weighting sigil will not be of use in terms of actual weighting, however the padding will be.

I don't tend to run out of Mana while hunting, since I'm focused more on the Physical side of things with him than magical. I don't think, there is a Stamina sigil which is a drawback, cause I would love that to all hell.

Losing the what, 5 AS from ditching CoL to GoS wouldn't be that bad since I swing 611 right now but I'm still trying to wrap my head around it all.

[Wesley]

If you're not worried about needing a change RIGHT now, wait to see when and if CoL gets nerfed at all, then change. The reason for that is because if it does get nerfed, you won't be the only one switching, meaning finding warcamping partners will be that much easier.

Also, the higher your level, the less stamina and sufficient AS/DS become an issue for a paladin. Well, maybe not DS, but AS anyway. They swing hard.

Unless you're already capped, waiting will afford you some more levels, meaning more stamina and more AS/DS to offset the worry about those things. Paladins can really open up TPs for more PT, CM and such once they get most of the spells and armor training they want under their belts at level 60 or so, so you can start getting a big boost in stamina, and AS around then if not sooner.

[Widgets]

If you're not worried about needing a change RIGHT now, wait to see when and if CoL gets nerfed at all, then change. The reason for that is because if it does get nerfed, you won't be the only one switching, meaning finding warcamping partners will be that much easier.

I wouldn't need to partner up for Warcamps.

Also, Sign of Dissipation gives +15 TD it seems, not +10...Unless Psinet is wrong.

[Wesley]

Well....I added stuff while you were responding too also!!!1

But yeah, I guess I'd lean towards waiting, but I think it's really just personal preference. Societies are nice and all, but they're just icing on the cake I think. Would you really have trouble hunting if you weren't in one altogether?

[Widgets]

Well....I added stuff while you were responding too also!!!1

But yeah, I guess I'd lean towards waiting, but I think it's really just personal preference. Societies are nice and all, but they're just icing on the cake I think. Would you really have trouble hunting if you weren't in one altogether?

Meh I dunno, I'm actually leaning more towards GoS right now. Sigil of Escape is a Godsend, shame it's only a 24 hour refresh period though.

The only time I would die, is either by Implosion, or stuck in long ass RT and getting plinked to death.

Beseech won't work while in RT, so escape is the I win more button.

Losing a whole 5 AS/DS is minimal. If I did, I'd be swinging 607 instead of 611 with my 4x. And DS wise I'd be looking at 465 or so in Offensive instead of 471ish.

Sigil of distraction is great too as a THW....Hrmmm

[TheLastShamurai]

Sigil of Escape is definitely not the win button in the Temple.

[Widgets]

Sigil of Escape is definitely not the win button in the Temple.

I'm not concerned about using it in the Temple, but more so a Camp.

The Temple is usually easy, except now when I am talking to people on AIM and get Imploded as soon as I walk into a Room :)

[Sylvan Dreams]

Sigils are annoying to keep up because of their short duration. You have to really pay attention to the screen and it's easy to miss a sigil or two drop in regular hunting scroll.

[Widgets]

Sigils are annoying to keep up because of their short duration. You have to really pay attention to the screen and it's easy to miss a sigil or two drop in regular hunting scroll.

Meh, 5 minutes is enough for a hunt usually, if not, you just refresh it.

The others can stack for 3minutes.

As for them dropping, I use highlights so when they drop, my ass knows.

[Fallen]

Who the fuck wants to constantly juggle sigils? To hell with that. I guess if you play a square/semi you're used to that with CMAN surge/Shadowmastery, but that crap gets annoying. They need an auto refresh option. Obviously, it wouldn't work if you were stunned/asleep/inRT/whatever, but otherwise it would retrigger them.

Imagine if bards needed to refresh every one of their own spells.

[BriarFox]

Who the fuck wants to constantly juggle sigils? To hell with that. I guess if you play a square/semi you're used to that with CMAN surge/Shadowmastery, but that crap gets annoying. They need an auto refresh option. Obviously, it wouldn't work if you were stunned/asleep/inRT/whatever, but otherwise it would retrigger them.

Imagine if bards needed to refresh every one of their own spells.

I almost wrote an auto-refresh script, but I use too many other scripts while hunting to make it worthwhile.

[Widgets]

Who the fuck wants to constantly juggle sigils? To hell with that. I guess if you play a square/semi you're used to that with CMAN surge/Shadowmastery, but that crap gets annoying. They need an auto refresh option. Obviously, it wouldn't work if you were stunned/asleep/inRT/whatever, but otherwise it would retrigger them.

Imagine if bards needed to refresh every one of their own spells.

What Nuadjha said would basically hold true for me, I don't script when hunting since i just use macro's, so I could easily make an Upkeep script for sigils to use.

I just don't know how effective it would be to use, and utilize CMANs as well...My like I'd pop my muscles hah

[Fallen]

I almost wrote an auto-refresh script, but I use too many other scripts while hunting to make it worthwhile.

If I ever switched I would have to get a computer to run Lich without any problems. There is no way I would be able to constantly babysit all of the sigils. That would be damned annoying. Hunts DO sometimes take forever if you get a Cull 28 Ithzir Adept task and they just aren't genning. 5 minutes isn't enough, 1 certainly isn't either.

[Swami71]

What Nuadjha said would basically hold true for me, I don't script when hunting since i just use macro's, so I could easily make an Upkeep script for sigils to use.

I just don't know how effective it would be to use, and utilize CMANs as well...My like I'd pop my muscles hah

LICH?

[TheLastShamurai]

I don't find it difficult to keep everything running personally.

And all I use it macros and highlights.

[The Ponzzz]

From discussions over the last few years about what is to come to the CoL, durations are going to take a serious blow there. So I would not count on the durations of signs to remain the same after a review.

But concerning the subject more directly. If you have a lot of stamina and use mana that isn't CS based when casting, GoS is an awesome choice.

[Widgets]

LICH?

I used to have it, but removed it I think.

[droit]

I also have no problem keeping the sigils up with just a few macros and highlights. Occasionally, I'll take a swing just as a sigil expires but it's really not a big deal.

[Fallen]

I also have no problem keeping the sigils up with just a few macros and highlights. Occasionally, I'll take a swing just as a sigil expires but it's really not a big deal.

The issue for me is more about getting stacked into RT, sometimes well over a minute. Those sigils are all going to drop. Regardless of that, constantly refreshing crap is just annoying.

[The Ponzzz]

If I'm exp hunting, I haven't really renewed my sigils ever. Camp hunting is about 50 seconds to fry. Nelemar hunting is about 2 minutes (no need for any 1 minute sigils there unless I want the AS boost).

[zhelas]

I also have no problem keeping the sigils up with just a few macros and highlights. Occasionally, I'll take a swing just as a sigil expires but it's really not a big deal.

:yeahthat:

[Swami71]

Sigil of determination is one of my favorite things about GoS. I will eventually go to GoS being an Elf spirit regen sucks and not having to worry about who you wrack in front of too.

[Widgets]

Yea, I think I'll take the plunge and do it.

It will give me another outlet to hunt in instead of Nelemar or OTF, and it will be nice having HCP Plate that has Double Flares as well for fun factor.

The 5 AS and DS loss won't be a huge factor, as I'm gaining other things like 20 ranks of swim for a minute and a half, and reducing critters EBP as well to make up for the losses.

[droit]

The determination/mending/health trifecta is a powerful force, too--possibly more game-changing than any of the other sigils. Ending a hunt due to injuries is so GS3.

[aesir]

Out of curiosity, does the GoS Crit Padding stack on top of armor padding?

[droit]

Out of curiosity, does the GoS Crit Padding stack on top of armor padding?

Yes. Tests have shown conclusively that the damage padding sigils stack with existing padding (both crit and damage). The crit padding sigil is infinitely harder to test, so we can't say it stacks with 100% certainty, but we're pretty sure it does.

[aesir]

Interesting. Hurm, I doubt the crit weighting stacks on top of weapon crit weighting though.

[droit]

Don't be so sure. The damage weighting stacks with existing damage weighting.

[Swami71]

Had another thought why GoS would be good for sorcerers. Having the spirit to use sacrifice again along with the sigil of power. Also using 130 spirit guide in cloak of shadows so you can escape when your stunned.

[Fallen]

>>Had another thought why GoS would be good for sorcerers. Having the spirit to use sacrifice again along with the sigil of power. Also using 130 spirit guide in cloak of shadows so you can escape when your stunned. >>

We can only use Sacrifice once every 20 minutes. Heck, I use sacrifice and I wrack. Just need to make sure you have about 4-5 spirit left in case of a massive failure. However, I am a mana junkie. A lot of sorcerers don't bother with it because sacrifice kinda sucks.

Not sure what you mean with Cloak of Shadows and 130. Are you saying the crit padding will help against the backlash? Cloak of Shadows and 130 is basically the equivalent OF Sigil of escape. It is actually kind of redundant. The difference being there is a chance the cloak might kill you when it triggers 130, but you can use it as often as you like.

[Swami71]

Right now I wrack down to 1 spirit. So I never use sacrifice. If you put 130 into cloak of shadows it drains 5 or 6 spirit if i remember right. So you'd have a spirit death. Being GoS you should always have 5 or 6 spirit to use 130 in Cloak of shadows.

[Swami71]

Also, sigil of escape is once per day and only takes you a short distance I think. Spirit guide should get you to a safe place (at least in teras it will)

[Fallen]

Also, sigil of escape is once per day and only takes you a short distance I think. Spirit guide should get you to a safe place (at least in teras it will)

CoS 130 has a spirit cost? Nice. Didn't know that. That's pretty well balanced. I just hate the spell 130. Unless you're an empath you're forever doomed to be throwing up in your mouth on your knees in a public place. Pass.

[Beguiler]

As my empath nears cap, she and her partner have been seriously discussing going GoS. If there's a near-cap empath who is currently GoS, and wouldn't mind me picking their brain about training, etc. I'ld appreciate the input, just AIM me at GS Syrinia or PM me. Thanks!

[Fallen]

As my empath nears cap, she and her partner have been seriously discussing going GoS. If there's a near-cap empath who is currently GoS, and wouldn't mind me picking their brain about training, etc. I'ld appreciate the input, just AIM me at GS Syrinia or PM me. Thanks!

I'm not an empath, but if you don't get any offers for help hit me up. They are by far the best pure class suited to the society, if not the best overall class.

[ViridianAsp]

Sigils are annoying to keep up because of their short duration. You have to really pay attention to the screen and it's easy to miss a sigil or two drop in regular hunting scroll.

yeah, but you could easily make a script to keep sigils up and going, while on said hunt.

Just a thought.

[Fallen]

yeah, but you could easily make a script to keep sigils up and going, while on said hunt.

Just a thought.

Sure, as long as you're familiar with Lich, or run no other scripts during the course of your hunt.

[ViridianAsp]

Sure, as long as you're familiar with Lich, or run no other scripts during the course of your hunt.

As a rule, I don't use hunting scripts, I think it makes you lazy.

[Fallen]

As a rule, I don't use hunting scripts, I think it makes you lazy.

I can understand this point of view. I don't use many, but I DO use enough to trip up any script I wanted to run 24-7 in the background. I field invoke scrolls, which involves stowing my shield. I use a script to pick up items and put them into various containers. Stuff like that.

Not, .hunt and go watch Burn Notice.

[Tea & Strumpets]

CoS 130 has a spirit cost? Nice. Didn't know that. That's pretty well balanced. I just hate the spell 130. Unless you're an empath you're forever doomed to be throwing up in your mouth on your knees in a public place. Pass.

There must be other factors (not including whatever lore it is that affects the sickness). I only get the 60 second round time on a 'fumble', and by that I mean that according to my anecdotal statistics, that the round time isn't often more than 0-25 seconds.

I just logged in and fogged 10 times.

0 seconds (this gives no messaging other than the 3 second soft cast round time)
0 seconds
Roundtime: 22 sec.
Roundtime: 38 sec.
0 seconds
Roundtime: 4 sec.
0 seconds
0 seconds
Roundtime: 17 sec.
Roundtime: 7 sec.

[Tea & Strumpets]

Oh these are my lores, I dunno which one affects it if any:

Spiritual Lore - Blessings.........| 25 5
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 132 36

I think it must be Constitution or Strength that is the other factor? Maybe dwarves don't get the high round times often either.

[Tea & Strumpets]

It's probably something with constitution and bonus. Here is statistical EVIDENCE of another 10 fogs:

> assume bear
You concentrate your focus upon the Aspect of the Bear. You hear a deep bellowing reverberate through your mind, inspiring an invigorating fortitude that spreads to your very core.
Assume Roundtime 3 Seconds.

Constitution (CON): 100 (35) ... 122 (46)

Roundtime: 13 sec.
0 seconds
0 seconds
Roundtime: 13 sec.
0 seconds
0 seconds
0 seconds
Roundtime: 9 sec.
0 seconds
0 seconds

[Fallen]

The factors are posted for the website. Your character with that 650 CON boost is in good shape to avoid a lot of the sickness.
----
The caster's Constitution (http://www.play.net/gs4/info/stats.asp#constitution) bonus and Physical Fitness (http://www.play.net/gs4/info/skills.asp#physicaltraining) training determines the duration (number of cycles) of the nausea. Spirit Mana Control (http://www.play.net/gs4/info/skills.asp#manashare) can reduce the severity of the sickness. And Spiritual Lore, Spirit Summoning (http://www.play.net/gs4/info/skills.asp#spirlore) decreases the random range of the landing location.

[Tea & Strumpets]

They probably just added that information after reading my post with the 20 fogs of research...

[Fallen]

They probably just added that information after reading my post with the 20 fogs of research...

It was either Estild or Oscuro who stated that only empaths could effectively train away any penalty associated with the spell. I've already capped out my Physical training at 1x, but your results with a stupidly high CON looked promising. Maybe I can get a con enhancive or two and see how that works out. I have a maxed con for a DE, but that isn't saying much.

[droit]

My ranger with 2x PF, 35 CON bonus and 30 SMC would get sick maybe 1 out of 5 fogs, if that.

[Fallen]

I will post some logs of my use of the spell when I get home. Evarin is a slave to research at times.

[BriarFox]

It was either Estild or Oscuro who stated that only empaths could effectively train away any penalty associated with the spell

I expect that because they didn't expect anyone else to be training in PF, SMC, and SL-S extensively. They forgot about rangers. Some paladins, too, perhaps.

[Fallen]

I expect that because they didn't expect anyone else to be training in PF, SMC, and SL-S extensively. They forgot about rangers. Some paladins, too, perhaps.

I suspect it is because they can have both the magical skills AND 3x PT. Only warriors can 3x PT, and they cannot go more than 1x SMC.

[Kitsun]

Only PF+CO really matter if you want to completely eliminate RT associated with 130. They control the number of waves of sickness you get. If you have 303 PT and enough CO bonus then you can keep 0 SMC. So warriors could be among the best foghome'ers.

Unfortunately for most 130 casters, you'll want whatever SMC you can afford since you can't hit that peak.

[Fallen]

Constitution (CON): 100 (20) ... 100 (20)
Physical Fitness...................| 201 101
Spirit Mana Control................| 201 101
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 190 90 - Doesn't effect sickness

Can't say I am a fan of the spell at maxed efforts to reduce RT.
----
You feel light-headed, like you're about to faint!
Roundtime: 7 sec.
----
You feel weak-kneed and that last meal doesn't sit well.
Roundtime: 10 sec.
----
You are overwhelmed by an intense wave of disorientation. An acidic bile taste hangs in the back of your throat, making it difficult to swallow. As you try to recover some semblance of balance, an intense series of spasms from deep in your bowels forces its entire contents to work its way up your throat. It takes every ounce of personal effort to keep yourself from the irresistible urge to vomit!
Roundtime: 38 sec. (kneeling)
----
You are completely overtaken by a sense of vertigo. Try as you might, you are unable to focus on any single object or person. The world around you spins in a disarray of lights and color!
Roundtime: 36 sec. (prone)
----
You feel dizzy. The ground and sky seem to move together in a nauseating blur. When things seem steadier you realize you're flat on your back! (prone)
Roundtime: 15 sec.
----
Your head aches and you feel nauseated.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
----
No negative effect
----
Your stomach aches and you have a pounding migraine. Your eyes water causing your vision to blur. You can barely maintain your balance as you force your eyes shut to concentrate on maintaining composure.
Roundtime: 14 sec.
----
Your head aches and you feel nauseated.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
----
You are completely overtaken by a sense of vertigo. Try as you might, you are unable to focus on any single object or person. The world around you spins in a disarray of lights and color!
Roundtime: 17 sec. (prone)

[droit]

I found PF to be the most influential factor in determining sickness. An empath's ability to 3x PF and their likelihood of training a full 1x SMC is probably what the GM was referring to.

[BigWorm]

Constitution (CON): 100 (20) ... 100 (20)
Physical Fitness...................| 201 101
Spirit Mana Control................| 201 101
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 190 90 - Doesn't effect sickness

Can't say I am a fan of the spell at maxed efforts to reduce RT.
----
You feel light-headed, like you're about to faint!
Roundtime: 7 sec.
----
You feel weak-kneed and that last meal doesn't sit well.
Roundtime: 10 sec.
----
You are overwhelmed by an intense wave of disorientation. An acidic bile taste hangs in the back of your throat, making it difficult to swallow. As you try to recover some semblance of balance, an intense series of spasms from deep in your bowels forces its entire contents to work its way up your throat. It takes every ounce of personal effort to keep yourself from the irresistible urge to vomit!
Roundtime: 38 sec. (kneeling)
----
You are completely overtaken by a sense of vertigo. Try as you might, you are unable to focus on any single object or person. The world around you spins in a disarray of lights and color!
Roundtime: 36 sec. (prone)
----
You feel dizzy. The ground and sky seem to move together in a nauseating blur. When things seem steadier you realize you're flat on your back! (prone)
Roundtime: 15 sec.
----
Your head aches and you feel nauseated.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
----
No negative effect
----
Your stomach aches and you have a pounding migraine. Your eyes water causing your vision to blur. You can barely maintain your balance as you force your eyes shut to concentrate on maintaining composure.
Roundtime: 14 sec.
----
Your head aches and you feel nauseated.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
----
You are completely overtaken by a sense of vertigo. Try as you might, you are unable to focus on any single object or person. The world around you spins in a disarray of lights and color!
Roundtime: 17 sec. (prone)

As a rogue with 0 ranks of SMC, my 202 ranks of PT seem to do a pretty solid job of getting rid of most of the sickness. I usually have less than 10 seconds of roundtime.

[Fallen]

As a rogue with 0 ranks of SMC, my 202 ranks of PT seem to do a pretty solid job of getting rid of most of the sickness. I usually have less than 10 seconds of roundtime.

Its the 1x PT cap that bones Clerics and Sorcerers. I just wish they had given a way for ALL native casters of the spell to get the most of it.

[Jace Solo]

Back on the refreshing GoS sigils. I'm not a scripting super star but I just made two simple scripts

.sigilong
put sigi off
put sigi def

.sigi
put sigi ma ba
put sigi ma pro
put sigi focus

Custom Highlights in light blue to stand out over the black
Refresh as needed.

Or get Lich to check it and refresh if it falls at the start of each new swing.

But really, make the script, make the macro, done.