THW/Ewaver Armor?

[DaCapn]

I just fixskilled my level 31 burghal gnome rogue into the following build:


Armor Use..........................| 130 35 35
Combat Maneuvers...................| 126 33 33
Two-Handed Weapons.................| 166 66 66
Ambush.............................| 134 37 37
Physical Fitness...................| 126 33 33
Dodging............................| 166 66 66
Harness Power......................| 90 20 20
Stalking and Hiding................| 166 66 66
Climbing...........................| 120 30 30

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 10 10

It's pretty fun so far. I've been using a razern maul and I don't have too much trouble aiming from hiding, actually (somewhere around 80% for the head, a miss will result in a stun anyway so it's just as well). I could have waited about 10 more levels to change to a more fleshed out version but It looked like fun now. I just barely squeezed out 410. Anyway, I should be able to get ambush up to 2x in pretty short order.

The only thing I was on the fence about was armor and weapon. I have what I think is a new style claid (I don't know the real story about claids, it's weighted, 0x, and recently critter-found). What would be the best bet? The elegant razern maul, a higher enchant maul, or the claid? This character is an alt, so I don't really care to go all-out. I've got no shortage of AGIDEX.

For armor, I've summarized my options (either would be plain 5x):
Chain shirt: 8% MnE failure (currently 16%), 40 ranks AU, No spiked greaves.
Brigandine: 7% MnE failure, 35 ranks AU, spiked leg greaves.

I feel like I wouldn't care much for the greaves if I've got 410 and that I could use cmans (eventually) more for enhancement (surge/smastery) rather than disabling. So I'm leaning towards chain shirt. Though 48 ranks of sweep seem to be going to waste here. Plus, I don't think my mana will last very long. I plan to get as much as 30 ranks of HP but I'll be doing it at 0.5x.

[Wesley]

Ehhhh...I'd say stick with the claid til you get ambush up, then a maul's prolly better. Swings quicker, and a hit is pretty much one shot one kill for a rogue. Even with a dagger, later on.

Also, any decent chain shirt is hard to find. You don't have to go all out though to find some somewhat crit padded or so brig though. That deep black rolaren scalemale from hunt for history is stylish, somewhat crit padded 4x brig with a show, and I think I saw a set go for like 2 mil not that long ago.

[thefarmer]

Just get spikes put on your torso chain if that's your concern.

edit:also your claids going to be newstyle if it was found recently.

[DaCapn]

As far as RT is concerned, I have a high enough AGIDEX for either to be the same speed. And isn't a maul easier to aim?

I think I need to adjust my original statistics to like 90% proper aim. I might keep ambush at 1x as a result and just work on cmans.

As for the 2 mil SWCP brig... I'm ballin on a budget here. When I said no frills for this character, I meant it. I'm only talking about gear around 5x since I've got spares that I've done with my own wizard. If I ever get this character to like 50-60 I'll think about some better armor.

[Stunseed]

Double in armor use and get into hauberk.

[Drew]

my... burghal gnome rogue



You really are a glutton for punishment aren't you?

[Izzy]

Razern is absolute garbage. Go for a 4x superior maul or mattock, they're fairly easy to find for fairly cheap. Claidh isn't necessary when ambushing.

[Danical]

Reroll before you realize how much BGs suck gangrenous gorilla gonads.

[DaCapn]

Double in armor use and get into hauberk.

That's 130 ranks of AU. Realistically, this character will never level beyond 50. At least not within the next 5 years or so. I think I've already decided upon chain shirt, anyway.


Reroll before you realize how much BGs suck gangrenous gorilla gonads.

Heh, I've been playing a giantkin lately and yeah, my RT shoots up to 10 seconds if I pick up a couple boxes with this guy. Not a big deal with a disk. I just happen to be getting like 6 boxes per hunt right now for some reason. Even without a disk I have been able to manage so far.


Razern is absolute garbage. Go for a 4x superior maul or mattock, they're fairly easy to find for fairly cheap. Claidh isn't necessary when ambushing.

Does anyone know how many points of weighting razern has?

[Mtenda]

Razern is absolute garbage. Go for a 4x superior maul or mattock, they're fairly easy to find for fairly cheap. Claidh isn't necessary when ambushing.

^

The claidh isn't necessary from a weighting standpoint and it is a less efficient weapon for what you are trying to do anyways because it slashes like half the time, it's slower, and harder to aim. Pawn the razern. Pwn with some vultite.

[Mtenda]

That's 130 ranks of AU. Realistically, this character will never level beyond 50. At least not within the next 5 years or so. I think I've already decided upon chain shirt, anyway.



Heh, I've been playing a giantkin lately and yeah, my RT shoots up to 10 seconds if I pick up a couple boxes with this guy. Not a big deal with a disk. I just happen to be getting like 6 boxes per hunt right now for some reason. Even without a disk I have been able to manage so far.



Does anyone know how many points of weighting razern has?


Or you could get 70 or 80 ranks of armor, wear MBP, and ewave from imbeds with no hinderance.

Razern has 2 points of weighting so 1 phantom point of damage. Hardly ever gonna bump up the crit rank.

[DaCapn]

Razern has 2 points of weighting so 1 phantom point of damage. Hardly ever gonna bump up the crit rank.

Oh, okay, for some reason I was thinking it was somewhere around 8-10.

So currently I'm going to go 4x maul and chain shirt. Thanks to all.

[StrayRogue]

First: Never use hauberk. MBP is better in every single way and requires IIRC 10 more armour ranks.

There is no real difference in aiming a maul or a claidh. They are large weapons.

Good luck aiming as well without perception.

[Mtenda]

First: Never use hauberk. MBP is better in every single way and requires IIRC 10 more armour ranks.

There is no real difference in aiming a maul or a claidh. They are large weapons.

Good luck aiming as well without perception.

Perception has no impact on ambushing.

[StrayRogue]

It does on aiming from the open.

[Mtenda]

It does on aiming from the open.

The equation for aiming from the open is .25 x ambush skill bonus + .25 x CM skill bonus. For ambushing from hiding it's .5 x ambush skill bonus. There are some other factors thrown in as well but perception is not one of them.

[Mala04]

Perception hasn't ever helped with aiming melee weapons (though it does help with aiming ranged weapons). The only skills involved have been Ambush and Combat Maneuvers since the AMBUSH verb was created.

- Consigliere Ildran, Shizlock Holmesplice

http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Ambush_saved_post



* Skill for melee aiming is one quarter ambush plus one quarter combat maneuvers.

* Skill for aimed attack from hiding or invisiblity is half ambush skill.

[BigWorm]

First: Never use hauberk. MBP is better in every single way and requires IIRC 10 more armour ranks.

Except hinderance, which is key since he is an e-waver. I recommend the same thing another poster said: get into MBP and just use imbeds.

[Izzy]

First: Never use hauberk. MBP is better in every single way and requires IIRC 10 more armour ranks.

There is no real difference in aiming a maul or a claidh. They are large weapons.

Good luck aiming as well without perception.

As far as maneuver/rt penalties, hauberk and MBP are both trained off at 80 ranks. (I'm 99.9% sure)

[Mtenda]

As far as maneuver/rt penalties, hauberk and MBP are both trained off at 80 ranks. (I'm 99.9% sure)

minimum manuever penalties are reached at 80 for both.....rt is 70 for both

[Izzy]

minimum manuever penalties are reached at 80 for both.....rt is 70 for both

Ahh, right. My point was more that they have the same requirements.

[DaCapn]

Good luck aiming as well without perception.

Perception has no impact on ambushing.

I was guilty of thinking the same thing recently (and I think it was Mtenda who also corrected me). Not sure if 2x perception was just grandfathered in from my main being a locksmith or what but I definitely subscribed to the same myth.

With barely over 1x ambushing and 0x perception I'm having no trouble hitting the mark with this thing despite it being a heavy weapon. I thought the aim difficulty was speed-based so that's why I thought there would be an aim difficulty gradient there.

The reason I suggested the claid in the first place was because I thought the weighting of the claid would sneak in higher rank crits over the 4x maul but it looks like the better AvD and and DF of the maul win out on average anyway (for those specific weapons anyway).

A complete and accurate discussion of the difference between RT & Maneuver penalty train-offs is explained here:
http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Armor_Use

[Mtenda]

I was guilty of thinking the same thing recently (and I think it was Mtenda who also corrected me). Not sure if 2x perception was just grandfathered in from my main being a locksmith or what but I definitely subscribed to the same myth.

With barely over 1x ambushing and 0x perception I'm having no trouble hitting the mark with this thing despite it being a heavy weapon. I thought the aim difficulty was speed-based so that's why I thought there would be an aim difficulty gradient there.

The reason I suggested the claid in the first place was because I thought the weighting of the claid would sneak in higher rank crits over the 4x maul but it looks like the better AvD and and DF of the maul win out on average anyway (for those specific weapons anyway).

A complete and accurate discussion of the difference between RT & Maneuver penalty train-offs is explained here:
http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Armor_Use

It's understandable....the play.net website still says perception gives a bonus to it. I also used to 2x perception for that very reason with a non picking rogue even. Someone corrected me on the issue in the ranger folder a while back and I had it confirmed by a GM not long after. Also.......GM's tell me that monks can fly.

[Widgets]

Burghal Gnome Rogue :(

[StrayRogue]

Can't be arsed to search through my files to find the last up to date /skill I took. Here's one from 64. Bear in mind I'd been a two-handed weapon using rogue pretty much my entire career. The 30's-40's were the lean levels.

Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 180 80
Combat Maneuvers...................| 232 132
Two-Handed Weapons.................| 232 132
Ambush.............................| 178 78
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 25 5
Physical Fitness...................| 178 78
Dodging............................| 240 140
Arcane Symbols.....................| 105 25
Magic Item Use.....................| 105 25
Harness Power......................| 25 5
Survival...........................| 99 23
Stalking and Hiding................| 230 130
Perception.........................| 195 95
Climbing...........................| 105 25
Swimming...........................| 105 25
First Aid..........................| 105 25

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Shadow Mastery smastery 5
Feint feint 4
Specialization I wspec1 5
Combat Mobility mobility 2
Surge of Strength surge 5

[DaCapn]

With regards to heavier armors and imbeds vs. lighter armors and casting, I prefer the latter. I'm more of a fan of intrinsic abilities. I prefer to not be limited by a resource and my ability to find certain items. Plus I can use the ability just about as often as I like without fear of running out (it's only short-term limited). I also enjoy the benefits of 401 and 406. I got some fringe benefits from 403/407 while doing a "rescue the child" task in a locked hunting area as well.

There's clearly more to the benefits and penalties of training in spells than what I'm about to present but just for example: Depending upon the current status of my TP conversions, I could get anywhere between 10 and 20 CM ranks above the 1x mark by dropping 6 ranks in MnE. That would cause a gain of 5-10 AS at the expense of 15 points of DS from 401 + 406. Again, there's more going on (losses for siding with spells: redux, cman skills; losses for siding with cmans: spellburst, TD; etc) but it just is one illustration of the fact that there's more cost/benefit analysis required than some people might think.

[Celephais]

Another option you could consider would be being able to cast, in medium armor while having imbeds for backup (running out of mana, crowded room that's not worth the hinderance risk).

[DaCapn]

Turns out that the entry in Krakiipedia for chain shirt was incorrect for MnE (looks like every other circle with the same penalty rank was done right though). It was listed as 40 ranks instead of 50. That's just a little irritating. I was noticing that the spell penalty didn't seem to be scaling down logically. Someone who uses Psinet may want to check those lookup tables as well because I think those numbers were copied from there.

[Anferis]

First: Never use hauberk. MBP is better in every single way and requires IIRC 10 more armour ranks.

Wouldn't the hauberk be better because it offers more coverage? I'm not saying you're wrong, just wondering.

[Stunseed]

Protection wise, MBP gives the higher crit divisor to the torso.

However, MBP makes it much harder to cast in, so if you want to cast, staying in Hauberk makes much more sense.

[StrayRogue]

A common misconception is that partial amour does not cover your entire body. In fact it does. It covers it in the AG beneath it. So MBP has plate protection on head, chest (and arms?), and HAUBERK coverage on everything else. Chain shirt has chain coverage on head and arms, and LEATHER coverage everywhere else. Etc etc. The only difference is that you get the plate crit devisor EVERYWHERE on your body, which makes the most basic 4x MBP superior to the most padded hauberk in existence.

[Anferis]

That's awesome since they both cost the same amount of AU (according to ?armor anyways). I read somewhere earlier that heavier armor may have an effect on sniping mechanics. Any confirmation on that?

[StrayRogue]

I don't know off-hand. They both have the same RT/Maneuver penalty training, but Stun was right, good luck casting in MPB.

[Stunseed]

< which makes the most basic 4x MBP superior to the most padded hauberk in existence. >

On the torso, yes. To make this comparison, you have to measure apples to apples.

0x hauberk has a better crit divisor than 10x incredibly crit padded brig.
0x plate has a better crit divisor than 10x incredibly crit padded hauberk.

0x mbp has a better crit divisor than 10x incredibly crit padded torso chain.
0x torso chain has a better crit divisor than 10x incredibly crit padded lbp.

So on, etc.

[Celephais]

So MBP has plate protection on head, chest (and arms?), and HAUBERK coverage on everything else.
No to bolded parts, MBP only offers plate crit divisor to the chest (and back), with chain crit divisor for everywhere else. Augmented Plate adds arms (and hands) to the plate coverage, Half plate adds in your legs, and Full plate adds in the Head neck and eyes.

Regardless of where you're hit, you always get the DF of Plate in MBP-Full Plate.