Train/Level/Age etc etc....

[Anothi]

I can't tell you how much it urks me to see characters refer to creatures and players by 'train, level, or age' to describe what level they are. Yes yes, I know what some of you are thinking, "Back in the day, as you leveled you got older." I'll tell you what, I was there during that age, but those times have changed.

I'll start with Train: A player approaches another and says, "Guess what! I seen my trainer today!"

Great, I'm happy that you leveled, but the matter of the fact is how are you going to see your trainer ONCE and you just happen to increase your skills that much? Wouldn't you be constantly training to better yourself instead of seeing him/her just once? You gain XP with each kill, every wound, every box; However you gain your xp and it takes much time to even get a TP to be able to 'better yourself in a skill.' Do people seriously count the amount of times they've been to the gym? I've been to the gym and seen my trainer 30 times. Does that mean I'm level 30?

Next I'll do Age: "I'm thinking of hunting fire mages. What do you think?"
"Well, how old are you?"

WTF? Seriously? Age has nothing to do with skill. Anothi is 256 years old. So by that logic he's level 256. If you really think about it...there isn't a way to describe someone or something's 'level'. If you really want to talk about it...why talk about it IG? Talk like that should be confined to an OOC whisper if anything.

Thoughts?

Anothi

[Some Rogue]

QQ?

[thefarmer]

I'll start with Train: A player approaches another and says, "Guess what! I seen my trainer today!"

Great, I'm happy that you leveled, but the matter of the fact is how are you going to see your trainer ONCE and you just happen to increase your skills that much? Wouldn't you be constantly training to better yourself instead of seeing him/her just once? You gain XP with each kill, every wound, every box; However you gain your xp and it takes much time to even get a TP to be able to 'better yourself in a skill.' Do people seriously count the amount of times they've been to the gym? I've been to the gym and seen my trainer 30 times. Does that mean I'm level 30?

Martial artists train constantly. Yet they aren't officially recognized to have reached a certain skill level until they take a test for whatever color belt/stripe/etc.

Saying you 'visited the trainer' doesn't preclude this type of scenario. Is it the best way? I've seen better, which I put below. In the same token though, it's not incorrect or OOC either.

Yes, age doesn't equal level.

The best way I've seen is referring to creatures as a baseline. As in 'I'm skilled enough to take on an Illoke shaman with some degree of (difficulty/ease/great danger).

Edit: I thought of another one that can give a base range. Saying your skills can be helpful. As in "I've learned all my spell circles and have been spending a lot of time in the Advanced Spell Research for whatever spell circle". Or "I've progressed far beyond the normal ranger's skills and been able to dabble/train heavily/some in whatever extra skills.

[Fallen]

The best way I've seen is referring to creatures as a baseline. As in 'I'm skilled enough to take on an Illoke shaman with some degree of (difficulty/ease/great danger).

This is my usual method as well. I believe the best way to correct poor practices such as stating critter "Trainings" or "age" is to use proper examples yourself as a starting point for others to follow.

[Anothi]

Finally, people that actually understand. It sucks to see people say IG (even though I know it's not OOC) I can't hunt this creature..it's too old for me.

Anothi

[Sweets]

People going on about seeing their trainer is irksome but not half as annoying as the age thing.

I've had people try to correct me when I say I'm older than they are. My character is mature and theirs is extremely young. I don't care about your Level, I'm actually talking about age. Yesh. I thought I was the only one in the game that used the word age to mean AGE. Nice to know others are out there...somewhere...

[Liagala]

My only objection to using critters as a baseline is the fact that there are so many of them, and a lot of people have no idea what level most of them are. I can easily see this conversation...

Illistim Elf - What's good to hunt here in Landing?
Me - Well, that depends. What did you hunt on the other side of the mountains?
Elf - Black Forest Ogres
Me - Never heard of 'em. Are those tougher to kill than, say, a Frost Giant?
Elf - What sort of giant?
Me: Whisper (elf) OOC - what level are you?

It just falls apart too easily. That said, it's still a lot better than referring to age. It's absolutely ridiculous for a 23 year old Human to say they're older than a 1200 year old Elf.

[Kuyuk]

Them: What can I hunt here?
Me: <pick pockets> Depends, how tough are you?
Them: Pretty strong, I can hunt fire mages..
Me: <pick pockets> Take a swing at me in offensive..
Them: <attacks, misses>
Me: <720 them> Dont you dare attack me again. You're too weak to be here, go back to the landing.


K.

[Nieninque]

I can easily see this conversation...

Illistim Elf - What's good to hunt here in Landing?
Me - Well, that depends. What did you hunt on the other side of the mountains?
Elf - Black Forest Ogres
Me - Never heard of 'em. Are those tougher to kill than, say, a Frost Giant?
Elf - WTF? WUT LVL R THEY?
Me: act slaps forehead

Fixed

[Xaerve]

who cares

[Shari]

Whisper OOC is your best friend.

But I guess if you were that desperate to say how skilled you were I just weigh it on a level of strength/weakness.

"I'm not strong enough to handle the Rift yet."

I dunno. It bugs me when people talk about that shit too so I always ooc whisper anymore about that kind of thing.

[Ignot]

I always enjoyed not telling anyone what level I was.

[Rathgar]

Play DR, it's like an advanced form of GS.

[Methais]

I can't tell you how much it urks me to see characters refer to creatures and players by 'train, level, or age' to describe what level they are. Yes yes, I know what some of you are thinking, "Back in the day, as you leveled you got older." I'll tell you what, I was there during that age, but those times have changed.

I'll start with Train: A player approaches another and says, "Guess what! I seen my trainer today!"

Great, I'm happy that you leveled, but the matter of the fact is how are you going to see your trainer ONCE and you just happen to increase your skills that much? Wouldn't you be constantly training to better yourself instead of seeing him/her just once? You gain XP with each kill, every wound, every box; However you gain your xp and it takes much time to even get a TP to be able to 'better yourself in a skill.' Do people seriously count the amount of times they've been to the gym? I've been to the gym and seen my trainer 30 times. Does that mean I'm level 30?

Next I'll do Age: "I'm thinking of hunting fire mages. What do you think?"
"Well, how old are you?"

WTF? Seriously? Age has nothing to do with skill. Anothi is 256 years old. So by that logic he's level 256. If you really think about it...there isn't a way to describe someone or something's 'level'. If you really want to talk about it...why talk about it IG? Talk like that should be confined to an OOC whisper if anything.

Thoughts?

Anothi

http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/8969/wowchatcomics4rpserversea1.jpg

[Some Rogue]

Yar Yar..hump hump

[DaCapn]

Martial artists train constantly. Yet they aren't officially recognized to have reached a certain skill level until they take a test for whatever color belt/stripe/etc.

I've often thought that it should be okay to say that you have completed X seasons of training with the warrior's guild (or something to that effect, even if there isn't a <profession> guild, just to state WHO is training you). And it makes sense in context of martial arts like that (and I've made that comparison before also). Somehow it still puts me off, though.

Yeah, the "seeing the trainer" bit is always a silly one to hear. Especially since, in GS at least, the moment you "see the trainer" is no different than any other moment when you absorb exp (other than regaining the excess TPs for the skills which you've trained more than 1x in). Even so, you're really only gaining 2-3 skill ranks.

How do you guys feel about using titles in an IC-manner? Like "the mayor has granted me the title of 'Great Lord' in recognition of my skill and services to the town." One problem is: who grants the titles? How do you deal with the fact that there are some high level douche bags who shouldn't get awarded the sweat off a dead dog's balls, much less a title of prestige from an elected official?


Edit: I thought of another one that can give a base range. Saying your skills can be helpful. As in "I've learned all my spell circles and have been spending a lot of time in the Advanced Spell Research for whatever spell circle". Or "I've progressed far beyond the normal ranger's skills and been able to dabble/train heavily/some in whatever extra skills.

That's a pretty good one.

[droit]

What do you think is the best way to say you're capped? In some places, it would work to say you hunt OTF or Nelemar, but what if a locksmith needed to know the difficulty of your capped Grimswarm box or something?

[thefarmer]

Equal to one of the most dangerous creatures you could find in Nelemar or OTF.

[DaCapn]

Equal to one of the most dangerous creatures you could find in Nelemar or OTF.

I don't think so. Locks/traps aren't totally scaled by level. In Icemule, the average box dropped in the Abandoned Farm (30-35) is tougher than any greater ice giant box (46) and Grimswarm box that I've picked up (late 50's). I'd say the greater ice giant boxes are on par with Thurfel's Cellar (16-20).

It has been my general observation that creatures like giants drop boxes with easier locks/traps as well as less traps than spell-casting undead (for example). It would be interesting to generate some statistics of different types of traps that are generated by creature type. I'd be willing to bet that you get more glyph traps, for example, from spell-casting creatures than from warrior-types.

That is a tough one because locksmiths really have to know their area and Grimswarm kind of change that paradigm. I haven't opened enough of other people's Grimswarm boxes to be able to say anything definitive about the difficulty of those locks. Best you could do is maybe ask your latest locksmith to tell you the highest lock out of the bunch, and report that to your future locksmiths like "if you're skilled enough to pick intricate locks, you shouldn't have a problem." Or you could get a comparison to something else in the area.

[Fallen]

Who the heck isn't familiar with general creature levels in major areas? I suppose I can understand for new areas, but then you would be IN the new area, and applying OLD areas to measure said boxes against.

Bunch of fucking noobs.

[Swami71]

You all take it to serious for my liking. I lol at people that I call by there name for the first time and they ask me if I'm psychic.

[DaCapn]

Who the heck isn't familiar with general creature levels in major areas? I suppose I can understand for new areas, but then you would be IN the new area, and applying OLD areas to measure said boxes against.

I was just saying lock difficulty is only somewhat level-dependent. So "knowing the area" in the context I mentioned meant knowing how difficult the locks/traps are for all of the creatures. As far as I know, there isn't any data available for this. There is level data available but the things don't correlate directly (level 16 phosphorescent worms dropping boxes basically on par with level 42 ice giants). So in that context, anyone who hasn't been picking steadily for like 30-40 levels probably isn't. It seems like you weren't speaking in the same context as me, though.

[Fallen]

I was just saying lock difficulty is only somewhat level-dependent. So "knowing the area" in the context I mentioned meant knowing how difficult the locks/traps are for all of the creatures. As far as I know, there isn't any data available for this. There is level data available but the things don't correlate directly (level 16 phosphorescent worms dropping boxes basically on par with level 42 ice giants). So in that context, anyone who hasn't been picking steadily for like 30-40 levels probably isn't. It seems like you weren't speaking in the same context as me, though.

I wasn't, and you certainly have a point. Maaghara boxes were often described as more difficult than a lot of stuff coming out of OTF. However, you could just note the creature range, then just say you've heard locksmiths mention that the boxes are more complex than other creatures of comparable strength and difficulty. It is all just trial and error. You let them give the boxes a shot, laugh when they break their pick, then find someone a bit better.

[thefarmer]

I don't think so.

Think again.

Droit's specifically talking about Grimswarm camp boxes. Since Droit is capped, the Grimswarm would be capped. Saying that a Grimswarm box (capped creature) is similiar to an OTF/Nelemar box (also capped) should be sufficient to give the level range of the creature that dropped it.

[DaCapn]

Think again.

Droit's specifically talking about Grimswarm camp boxes. Since Droit is capped, the Grimswarm would be capped. Saying that a Grimswarm box (capped creature) is similiar to an OTF/Nelemar box (also capped) should be sufficient to give the level range of the creature that dropped it.

Clearly what we have here is a failure to communicate. This is why I said I don't think so:



What do you think is the best way to say you're capped? In some places, it would work to say you hunt OTF or Nelemar, but what if a locksmith needed to know the difficulty of your capped Grimswarm box or something?


Equal to one of the most dangerous creatures you could find in Nelemar or OTF.

I agree that you can make a creature-to-creature comparison (probably what you were referring to). What I've been saying the whole time is that knowing the level of the creature doesn't mean you know how difficult the box is. Are you disagreeing with that? Or do you think I responded to the wrong question in his post?

[CrystalTears]

I'm okay with the comparisons towards creatures of the same level/difficulty. It makes the most sense. And I don't see why people wouldn't know the difficulty of most creatures in the lands. If they haven't heard of it, chances are they haven't hunted them because they're too advanced for them anyway.

I really can't stand when people refer to age and/or level out loud. I also can't stand this new thing with seasons, and have never liked chapters for learning.

[Fallen]

Grimswarm boxes are wonky. They don't count for LFM, and IIRC their locks/traps are stupidly easy. They're like Soul Golems in their weirdness, even if not in the same way.

[Fallen]

I'm okay with the comparisons towards creatures of the same level/difficulty. It makes the most sense. And I don't see why people wouldn't know the difficulty of most creatures in the lands. If they haven't heard of it, chances are they haven't hunted them because they're too advanced for them anyway.

I really can't stand when people refer to age and/or level out loud. I also can't stand this new thing with seasons, and have never liked chapters for learning.

Hah. Maybe there should be a command that you can use when someone uses a thinly veiled OOCism that is LIKE report, but not quite, which will trigger a GM to send the person documentation on how to properly roleplay that scenario. Same thing with selling stuff on the thought net.

It wouldn't count as any sort of penalty unless the GMs note that the same person keeps getting the same reminders over and over. It would just be a friendly nudge in the correct direction that GMs would link the player to once they get the chance.

[Ignot]

I think the thought net is a little different when selling stuff. Just say 4x flaring axe instead of I have an axe that has been enchanted up to four times and when struck, it can shoot out flames. But I was never one for RP anyways.

[CrystalTears]

The problem is that then you have people telling/instructing others how to roleplay, and what is considered "good" roleplay, and frankly I don't think it should be the GM to control that. It's unfortunate that you have to basically get into a whispered frenzy in order to get any of that to make sense to some people, and in some situations, it's preference and not necessarily bad.

Although if there was a compilation, like a Wiki, of player AND GM contributions of what is and isn't acceptable roleplay for the general masses, that would be good to throw people to.

Ugh. I can't seem to explain this right. Too much cold medicine.

[Ignot]

A RP tip of the day and a Verb tip of the day would help alot of people.

[Rocktar]

So would IQ, but you don't think they are going to pass that out, after all, they have enough of a shortage themselves as it is. Well, some of the managment types.

[Methais]

I vomit continually at the stick-up-assness of this thread. People are always going to say 4x, trains, age, etc. no matter how much you object or bitch about it.

As long as they're not speaking in l33t or talking about how they just took out an entire block with a rocket launcher in Liberty City, who cares?

Are you really that super serious about your arpee that someone saying "-1280 lock", "capped sorcerer", or "4x with cold flares" totally ruins your suspension of disbelief that you really are an elf?

:puke:

[CrystalTears]

I actually would rather hear the actual lock number, or levels, or even the 4x, instead of the attempts to cover it up. 'Seasons' pisses me off!!

[Methais]

I actually would rather hear the actual lock number, or levels, or even the 4x, instead of the attempts to cover it up. 'Seasons' pisses me off!!

In cases like "I've been around for 56 seasons" or "I have 58764 pages left to read in my training book!" I think it's more a thing with just how ridiculously gay that is that would get under my skin, as opposed to the fact that it's OOC, to me anyway. Even if those things were considered IC, it'd still be gay. Like Drew2's avatar.

Take "boxies" and "spellies" for example. They're not OOC, but that doesn't make them any less heterosexually challenged.

[Ignot]

And you could just profile the person to find out their level, if they have it set.

[Fallen]

After all is said and done, the trick is to annoy people who don't roleplay like you want until they change or go away.

[Xeromist]

A RP tip of the day and a Verb tip of the day would help alot of people.

I really like that idea

[Clove]

I actually would rather hear the actual lock number, or levels, or even the 4x, instead of the attempts to cover it up. 'Seasons' pisses me off!!The simple fact is that organized civilizations devise standards, weights, measures and ratings. And why? To facilitate communication about highly technical subjects in such a fashion that the participating parties DON'T SOUND LIKE FAGS.

Given the daily activity of the average Elanthian it is not really much of a stretch to imagine that they might come up with numbers, abbreviations and standards for things such as lock/trap difficulties, magic resistance, armor quality, enchantment quality, weapon quality, combat accuracy, wound severity ad nauseum.

It isn't out of place to discuss mechanics. It's a direct way to communicate important concepts vital to our characters' lives.

[CrystalTears]

It isn't out of place to discuss mechanics.A roleplaying elitist just had an aneurysm somewhere.

[Trallihn]

Take "boxies" and "spellies" for example. They're not OOC, but that doesn't make them any less heterosexually challenged.

Ugh. I despise those words. All I can see are 4 year olds asking for more cookies or somethin like that.

Can someone cast some spellies at my boxies?

Everytime I read crap like that I wanna put my axie thru their damn headie.

Trallihn

[Anothi]

The fact of the matter is that there are too many people that play this game for the mechanics (I still don't understand that) and not for the RP aspect of it. As long as they continue to inhabit this game..they are going to continue to use trainings, age, 4x and other any terms that we've gone over with. For the most part there isn't anybody that will stop it unless RP is heavily moderated by the GM's which we all know won't happen. There simply isn't enough help or incoming resources for them to higher such help.

Anothi

[thefarmer]

The fact of the matter is that this is a game that people play to have fun.