Official: Bless/Curse Changes

[Fallen]

In an effort to better protect a player's equipment, blessing (via Bless Item (304) or Symbol of Blessing/Holiness) a cursed item will no longer result in an explosion, which would previously destroy said item.

GameMaster Estild
Cleric/Empath Team

This message was originally posted in Magic Spells and Systems, Magic Systems. To discuss the above follow the link below.

http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=102&category=18&topic=15&message=2995 (http://www.play.net/forums/redirect.asp?URL=http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=102&category=18&topic=15&message=2995)

[Fallen]

Yes, this change has the same effect on creatures too. The combat advantage it previously granted for only 4 mana with absolute success was also a reason for this change.

GameMaster Estild
Cleric/Empath Team

[Fallen]

That's what those idiots get for recently mentioning this tactic on this board. Yes, GM's might have known about it, but that is different than waving it in their face. Plus, they recently showed everyone the carrot with the 302 changes, it certainly creates the opportune moment to bring the stick.

[Tea & Strumpets]

Yes, this change has the same effect on creatures too. The combat advantage it previously granted for only 4 mana with absolute success was also a reason for this change.

GameMaster Estild
Cleric/Empath Team

What critters carry cursed weapons?

They already fixed the biggest BUG with destroying critter's weapon (when you could disarm a critter and glance at the weapon disarmed, causing it to crumble).

[Fallen]

Creatures in Anwyn, Harbingers carry cursed Claidhs, invasions...I am sure others can think of more examples.

[Rathgar]

That's what those idiots get for recently mentioning this tactic on this board. Yes, GM's might have known about it, but that is different than waving it in their face. Plus, they recently showed everyone the carrot with the 302 changes, it certainly creates the opportune moment to bring the stick.

You sure it wasn't someone from the officials, GMs don't really read these boards.

[Stunseed]

You sure it wasn't someone from the officials, GMs don't really read these boards.

Rooflez @ ignorance.

[Tea & Strumpets]

If GMs didn't read these boards, they wouldn't know anything about Gemstone or politics.

Seriously though, one time David Whatley, the mysterious owner of Simutronics, posted here!!!

[Fallen]

You sure it wasn't someone from the officials, GMs don't really read these boards.

I believe it was also mentioned there. I read the boards so much I get them mixed up at times.

[TheWitch]

Yea, seriously.

If you know about something cool, STFU.

Talk about it too much, get ready for the nerf bat.

Total Disney bullshit.

[Rathgar]

Thats pretty badass though... I can just picture someone casting that and his opponent's weapon exploding into a thousand pieces.

Remember kids! More Tedium, Less Fun! Sometimes, I wonder why I pay 30 bucks a month to play this game

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Yea, seriously.

If you know about something cool, STFU.

Talk about it too much, get ready for the nerf bat.

Total Disney bullshit.

So you think a 4 mana spell is ok to be the equivalent of 1002 without fail?

They should have just added a warding check to it when cast at critters, and then it'd be fine if you ask me.

[Fallen]

So you think a 4 mana spell is ok to be the equivalent of 1002 without fail?

They should have just added a warding check to it when cast at critters, and then it'd be fine if you ask me.

Agreed, though then bards would have bitched.

[fallenSaint]

Remember kids! More Tedium, Less Fun! Sometimes, I wonder why I pay 30 bucks a month to play this game

http://api.photoshop.com/home_a6e11fc3622346ff8dff861bf4917c57/adobe-px-assets/5e74b286a4724a0ca296004005293e0c

[Fallen]

Thats pretty badass though... I can just picture someone casting that and his opponent's weapon exploding into a thousand pieces.

Remember kids! More Tedium, Less Fun! Sometimes, I wonder why I pay 30 bucks a month to play this game

That ability still exists, it is called Song of Sonic Vibration (1002) and is very cool. Sunder Shield is also quite similar.

Plus, don't forget about one of the snazzy Savant abilities that will be available in 2015: Telekenetic Disarm.

[TheWitch]

That ability still exists, it is called Song of Sonic Vibration (1002) and is very cool. Sunder Shield is also quite similar.

Plus, don't forget about one of the snazzy Savant abilities that will be available in 2015: Telekenetic Disarm.

Yup, and when those get the disney nerfbat, I'll be less disgusted.

But I don't want them to get the disney nerfbat, just saying.

Frankly, I don't give a rats ass if it is a four-mana spell. As someone said, put in warding checks - the cleric has to overcome the curse. Similar already exists for sanctuaries.

FTR, I've never to my recollection been effected by this one way or another, I have no personal axe to grind here.

I just see at as yet another nail in the coffin of the game as far as any tangible risk goes. A small issue, I grant.

[Fallen]

I haven't seen anyone suggest adding a warding roll to the ability on the officials. Estild/Oscuro will tell you why if they wont do it.

*shrug*

[TheWitch]

Well, I haven't bothered - yet - because I just read about this at 7:30 this morning.

Bigger fish to fry.

[Fallen]

Thar. Question asked. Go do alchemy, witch.

[Fallen]

Is there any way that the feature of exploding cursed weapons could remain with the addition of a warding based check? There is certainly precedence for such a feature, and as the feature itself existed in the past WITHOUT one, mayhaps it wont be seen as too unbalancing. -Me

No, as one of the main factors for this change was to prevent players from destroying their equipment. Implementing such a proposal does not address that concern.

GameMaster Estild
Cleric/Empath Team

[phantasm]

Most nerfs seem to originate in platinum.

IE: Some guy in plat gets his 10x uber item cursed during an event, he tries to bless it, obviously knowing it will do "something" but not able to remember exactly what. The item is destroyed. The ability is nerfed.

Similiar story with the nerf to 420. Some guy gets a private workshop, figures out he can't imbed stuff in there due to a bug. 420 is nerfed worldwide.

[The Ponzzz]

Most nerfs seem to originate in platinum.

IE: Some guy in plat gets his 10x uber item cursed during an event, he tries to bless it, obviously knowing it will do "something" but not able to remember exactly what. The item is destroyed. The ability is nerfed.

Similiar story with the nerf to 420. Some guy gets a private workshop, figures out he can't imbed stuff in there due to a bug. 420 is nerfed worldwide.

Buh?! I don't think a single nerf has originated in Platinum since I started playing. If anything, most the nerfs have come from after something goes live in Prime and it becomes abused. Like the Adv. Guild stacking exp. The entire time it was Platinum only, it was always allowed, but then when it went live in Prime, sheer chaos began.

[Gnomad]

The entire time it was Platinum only, it was always allowed, but then when it went live in Prime, sheer chaos began.

wow i'm amazed it wasn't sheer chaos in plat

oh wait no if half the population did it at once it'd still only be 15 people

[The Ponzzz]

The issue is, no one was abusing it where it could be seen as a problem.

Not too many things change due to Platinum, it's normally the other way around. Many times we scratch our heads and wonder if Platinum was considered when they changed the thing.

[Tolwynn]

It's not just people in Platinum scratching their heads.

It seems that all too often one person, or a small group of people figure out how to do something better, faster, or more efficiently, and then the powers that be blanket nerf it for everyone, including the usually many more people who weren't doing the original thing in question. Sound in theory, but when it gimps the rest of the people below what the original baseline was, how good can that honestly be?

See: Higher-end escort missions, Grimswarm warcamps, alchemy training, ad nauseam.

[Fallen]

The strength formula for a Curse and/or Remove Curse on an item is based on the following factors:

- Discipline and Aura bonuses
- Ranks in the appropriate lore (Spirit Summoning for 715, Blessings for 315)
- Ranks in the appropriate spell circle (700s and 300s respectively)
- Level (the coefficient for this is reduced if the spell is not cast natively)

All coefficients are equal between the two professions. There's no random roll, either. It's just whoever has the higher strength wins. Additionally, Clerics receive an immense bonus to Remove Curse if the cursed target was Neutralize Cursed first.

Something fishy might be going on if Cleric 2 in Sereg's original post was successful without first casting Neutralize Curse, though. I'll look deeper at it when I have some time.

However, I will say that Remove Curse should have a bias in the removal formula. Remove Curse's only use is to remove a curse from a target player or item. This usage is substantially more narrow than the usage of Curse itself, which is seven different spell effects rolled into one (six stances and cursing an item to make it sticky). With such a focused purpose, Remove Curse should be successful more often.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Cleric/Empath Team
Voln/CoL Guru

[Fallen]

What I find amusing is Oscuro wants there to be an additional bonus to 315 to remove curses even though:

1. They already get one if they use 309 first.
2. A cleric can keep casting 315 at a cursed item and overcome any curse regardless of strength.

How much more help do Clerics need? A level 15 cleric can overcome the curse of the best trained, quad-capped sorcerer.

[Izzy]

What I find amusing is Oscuro wants there to be an additional bonus to 315 to remove curses even though:

1. They already get one if they use 309 first.
2. A cleric can keep casting 315 at a cursed item and overcome any curse regardless of strength.

How much more help do Clerics need? A level 15 cleric can overcome the curse of the best trained, quad-capped sorcerer.

Because curse is such a valuable non-hunting spell

Who cares?

[Fallen]

Because curse is such a valuable non-hunting spell

Who cares?

Sorcerers and Clerics I imagine.

[CrystalTears]

That's what those idiots get for recently mentioning this tactic on this board. Yes, GM's might have known about it, but that is different than waving it in their face. Plus, they recently showed everyone the carrot with the 302 changes, it certainly creates the opportune moment to bring the stick.
Why is this a bad change again? Because it affects the creature cursed weapons as well?

I dunno, if it means not accidentally destroying someone's weapon because it was cursed, I'm okay with it.

[Fallen]

Why is this a bad change again? Because it affects the creature cursed weapons as well?

I dunno, if it means not accidentally destroying someone's weapon because it was cursed, I'm okay with it.

Why is this a bad change? That depends on who you ask. Those who used it as a hunting tactic lost out on the ability to disarm their opponent cheaply and easily. I believe this nerf also affected those in Voln who used symbol of holiness to remove cursed items from their hands. Proponents of breakage saw it as one of the few remaining ways items left the game.

[CrystalTears]

Meh. For once I think it was a good change. I'd fucking have a heart attack if my weapon fucking exploded because of a bless on a curse I didn't know I had.

[Fallen]

Meh. For once I think it was a good change. I'd fucking have a heart attack if my weapon fucking exploded because of a bless on a curse I didn't know I had.

In that aspect I believe it was a good change, though I don't think they needed to nerf the ability to destroy weapons completely. Rather, have it be a voluntary action by CHANNELING the spell at your opponent and install a CS/TD check. I also suggested that they add a lore based requirement before you could use the spell in such a way. Still shot down. At the very least, have the ability remain to Voln. They need all the help they can get.

Anywho, expect a lot more creatures to curse the crap out of you, be it either during invasions or new/revamped hunting grounds.

[CrystalTears]

More CS/TD checks make me want to kick babies.

Find another way to disarm them. Christ.

[Fallen]

More CS/TD checks make me want to kick babies.

Find another way to disarm them. Christ.

Well..There is CMAN disarm, guild learned Disarm, and just cutting the creature's arm off.

[CrystalTears]

Welp. After speaking to a couple of people, and then ultimately another caster who said "WTF" to the change, and him telling me his side, I can see now why this wasn't such a good idea anymore.

The need to take away abilities because it might hurt a player is making it more disneyfied. And I had to agree that it's much like the droppage being taken away and whatnot. It would have still irked me to lose my sword over that, but then I would have blamed myself for not paying attention to what was going on with me and my stuff.

[Emeriana]

Welp. After speaking to a couple of people, and then ultimately another caster who said "WTF" to the change, and him telling me his side, I can see now why this wasn't such a good idea anymore.

The need to take away abilities because it might hurt a player is making it more disneyfied. And I had to agree that it's much like the droppage being taken away and whatnot. It would have still irked me to lose my sword over that, but then I would have blamed myself for not paying attention to what was going on with me and my stuff.

I agree! Another alternative would be to make it always work on mobs and low quality weapons. I wonder if it would be possible to distinguish between a high quality weapon and a more generic one. It would be cool to see some weapons still destroyed by this. I'm all for anti-disneyfication hehe. It seems that there really aren't any major negative consequences in the game anymore.

[mrjrd222]

I agree! Another alternative would be to make it always work on mobs and low quality weapons. I wonder if it would be possible to distinguish between a high quality weapon and a more generic one. It would be cool to see some weapons still destroyed by this. I'm all for anti-disneyfication hehe. It seems that there really aren't any major negative consequences in the game anymore.

A few things like 1002 can't destroy anything "magical" where magical items have been enchanted (glyph) or are a magical metal. I never used this feature of Bless, but I think at least making creatures drop their weapon/shield, maybe induce a few seconds of RT, it could still be useful to those that needed to disarm something.

p.s. eq/wow term *mobs* detected... hah

[Emeriana]

A few things like 1002 can't destroy anything "magical" where magical items have been enchanted (glyph) or are a magical metal. I never used this feature of Bless, but I think at least making creatures drop their weapon/shield, maybe induce a few seconds of RT, it could still be useful to those that needed to disarm something.

p.s. eq/wow term *mobs* detected... hah

You hit that right on the nail hah. I played WOW for a little while and left shortly after WOTLK. I capped a priest and a druid and it lost its appeal after that. I prefer deeper roleplaying instead of your typical hack and slash with PVP. That's why I came back to GS. :)

[TheLastShamurai]

people play gemstone to roleplay?

who knew.

[Emeriana]

people play gemstone to roleplay?

who knew.

:rofl: I know there's less of it nowadays, but I've still been involved in some great roleplay since I've been back. I've always played GS to roleplay. Levelling and getting stronger is nice, but it's a little pointless in my opinion if you don't develop your character in RP. But, everyone plays for different reasons.

[TheLastShamurai]

:rofl: I know there's less of it nowadays, but I've still been involved in some great roleplay since I've been back. I've always played GS to roleplay. Levelling and getting stronger is nice, but it's a little pointless in my opinion if you don't develop your character in RP. But, everyone plays for different reasons.

its hardly pointless. how can you claim to be a High Priest of (insert god) if you're not even of a level to earn the title? how can you RP being a Knight of (insert whatever) if you can only kill rolton?

i hate seeing people RP a billy badass, especially in an Arkatic Order, if they aren't in fact badass. but thats just a pet peeve of mine, personally.

but then again, i hardly RP, so who am i to judge ;).

[Emeriana]

its hardly pointless. how can you claim to be a High Priest of (insert god) if you're not even of a level to earn the title? how can you RP being a Knight of (insert whatever) if you can only kill rolton?

i hate seeing people RP a billy badass, especially in an Arkatic Order, if they aren't in fact badass. but thats just a pet peeve of mine, personally.

but then again, i hardly RP, so who am i to judge ;).

Oh, that's not what I meant at all hehe. I agree your skills will back up what you roleplay as. For instance, I roleplay getting stronger as I progress. Learning how to ressurrect the dead comes from me studying my prayers and advancing my skills. I just meant that getting to a high level is fun and everything, but roleplay really enriches the experience. Being strong and powerful is one thing, building your character's life is another.

[TheLastShamurai]

bah! life, schmife.

so you're a cleric. of what god?

[Emeriana]

bah! life, schmife.

so you're a cleric. of what god?

Oh, I follow Lorminstra and am slowly working on mastering Voln. I'm not the soft-spoken pray all the time cleric. I don't own prayer beads and like shiny and fancy things hehe. Plus, my sultry crimson bodice with black lace sleeves isn't really your typical cleric clothing. I'll post my character description up in the "What are you wearing thread" once I get in the game. I just got my left eyebrow pierced in-game too. Emeriana is a little on the shy side, but she can be flirtatious. She's also very honest, giving, and compassionate. I try to create a distinct feel and then go from there. After awhile, roleplaying the character becomes almost second nature.

[TheLastShamurai]

Oh, I follow Lorminstra and am slowly working on mastering Voln. I'm not the soft-spoken pray all the time cleric. I don't own prayer beads and like shiny and fancy things hehe. Plus, my sultry crimson bodice with black lace sleeves isn't really your typical cleric clothing. I'll post my character description up in the "What are you wearing thread" once I get in the game. I just got my left eyebrow pierced in-game too. Emeriana is a little on the shy side, but she can be flirtatious. She's also very honest, giving, and compassionate. I try to create a distinct feel and then go from there. After awhile, roleplaying the character becomes almost second nature.

lorminstra...

le sigh. what a waste of someone who wants to roleplay...

[Emeriana]

I've actually found it can be quite enjoyable. Everyone has their own interpretation of things. ^_^ I love the idea of Lorminstra, and it makes it a pleasure to roleplay.

[TheLastShamurai]

I've actually found it can be quite enjoyable. Everyone has their own interpretation of things. ^_^ I love the idea of Lorminstra, and it makes it a pleasure to roleplay.

so whats your interpretation of lameminstra?

[Fallen]

Lorminsta = The White Whore.

[TheLastShamurai]

Lorminsta = The White Whore.

agreed.