Official: 302 Lore Review Delays

[Fallen]

https://www.play.net/images/transparent.gifhttps://www.play.net/images/transparent.gif (https://www.play.net/forums/post.asp?forum=102&category=25&topic=26&replyto=8060)It may be sometime before we are able to get to our previously proposed idea since it is reliant on another project that got pushed back. However, in the meantime, I'll look into a fix for the immediate future, so that hopefully an infusion is seemed as a benefit instead of a penalty.

GameMaster Estild
Cleric/Empath Team

[Fallen]

I am guessing the change refers to the text below, though I may be mistaken.

Smite/Bane (302):
Training in Spiritual Lore, Religion increases the minimum and maximum damage when mana is infused.

[TheLastShamurai]

yeah well, they should've never nerfed 302 in the first place, then they wouldn't have to review it.

[Khariz]

Word. I thought Miko used to be a cleric...I still have him highlighted the cleric color.

I'd play my cleric again in a heartbeat if I could turn undead, lol.

[TheLastShamurai]

yea i rather liked being a cleric too.

[Stunseed]

Why did you switch, then? RP reasons?

[TheLastShamurai]

na, frankly there is way more potential for roleplay as a cleric.

it was just a combination of factors. one of which was the 302 nerfing, which at level 25ish and the serious lore training i had to amp it out, seriously screwed my pooch.

the last straw for me was a commune gone wrong though.

i remember thinking whenever i got to level 30 i would just cast commune all the time in hopes of something happening. and i did. and when something finally did happen, it wasn't even remotely cool. in fact it was quite the opposite.

at the time paladins came out i had a 5x true black ora flail and after that commune i was just like fuck it, lets bond this sucker.

the only reason i didn't convert back when they offered it was i lacked the 500?ish they wanted for it.

i'm glad i didn't now though, because paladins have serious post-cap potential, and since i'm going to cap in like five minutes, its all good.

[Fallen]

i'm glad i didn't now though, because paladins have serious post-cap potential, and since i'm going to cap in like five minutes, its all good.
__________________
~Mikoguchi

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Congratulations.

[TheLastShamurai]

REPORT I WIN GEMSTONE! So, what kind of door prizes come with this?

SEND[Andraste] A swift bolt to the head?


what a douche.

[The Ponzzz]

I'm pure-stupid, someone explain to me what this use to do and what it now does.

[mrjrd222]

I don't know what it used to do, right now 302 is a good cheap spell that can be channeled. It maxes out on the right target (bane=living smite=undead) for 45 base damage, and a crit up to 60 ish (usually 25-35).

If you have Religion lore, you have a chance to "infuse mana" into the cast for extra damage, but when infused, you lose 4+ mana instead of 2, and the spell does about 33% more damage, maxing out at a base hit of 61-62 ish, with barely any extra damage from a crit.

Basically the lore bonus that is supposed to make it a better spell, makes it less efficient. It's a penalty everytime you infuse extra mana into the spell, making lores even worse than useless.

[The Ponzzz]

Aha! That explains where my cleric's mana went when hunting arch wights, as I was infusing mana every cast it felt like. I was like, shit, 306 does way more damage and I generally kill things in one hit. I thought I was losing my mind.

[TheLastShamurai]

it used to do all the same things it does now, just better.

they nerfed its damage and insta-kill rate, and added that level 12 damage spell to compensate.

[Sean]

it used to do all the same things it does now, just better.

they nerfed its damage and insta-kill rate, and added that level 12 damage spell to compensate.

Well to be fair they nerfed repel to get to that point... with the undead gap not so bad I miss the old repel (consildated version) .. oh and meditate bring back meditation bonuses.

[TheLastShamurai]

i don't have any experience with repel, a bit before my time.

302 pre-nerf was the cats ass to me though.

[TheLastShamurai]

Aha! That explains where my cleric's mana went when hunting arch wights, as I was infusing mana every cast it felt like. I was like, shit, 306 does way more damage and I generally kill things in one hit. I thought I was losing my mind.

especially with the new lore changes, where you can get the acid degeneration effect with it.

[Khariz]

Pre-nerf 302 was my favorite spell in the game, and my cleric was my main.

Post-nerf 302 sucks so much ass that I went back to playing my warrior.

[mrjrd222]

Couldn't it do like 300 damage in one shot somehow? Pre-nerf 302 I mean...

[Rathain]

especially with the new lore changes, where you can get the acid degeneration effect with it.

the acid degeneration effect is pretty much a non factor. the damage on the acid effect depends on the endroll. Consider that a capped cleric with decent DEX bonus maxes out at ~420 Bolt AS, the endroll an older cleric can muster is going to be downright pitiful. Unless you train well over 40 ranks in religion lore, you're looking at a single acid effect of minimal damage each cast, which really isn't much.

[Danical]

the acid degeneration effect is pretty much a non factor. the damage on the acid effect depends on the endroll. Consider that a capped cleric with decent DEX bonus maxes out at ~420 Bolt AS, the endroll an older cleric can muster is going to be downright pitiful. Unless you train well over 40 ranks in religion lore, you're looking at a single acid effect of minimal damage each cast, which really isn't much.

This is a bit misleading; the severity of the acid crit depends on the crit generated by the initial cast. You could have a huge endroll against plate and not get a great crit whereas you could get a smaller endroll on skin but have a rank 9.

[nub]

I rolled up my cleric when repell was still the spell. About 4 months after I rolled up my cleric it switched. Then I switched to a swinging cleric which was awesome at the time, then we got neutered again.

I am ok with where I am at now, though it is slightly boring at times.

[TheLastShamurai]

the acid degeneration effect is pretty much a non factor. the damage on the acid effect depends on the endroll. Consider that a capped cleric with decent DEX bonus maxes out at ~420 Bolt AS, the endroll an older cleric can muster is going to be downright pitiful. Unless you train well over 40 ranks in religion lore, you're looking at a single acid effect of minimal damage each cast, which really isn't much.

i've never had a chance to toy with it. but holy bolt itself was always a good spell, so i figured that additional damage was always nice.

[Rathain]

This is a bit misleading; the severity of the acid crit depends on the crit generated by the initial cast. You could have a huge endroll against plate and not get a great crit whereas you could get a smaller endroll on skin but have a rank 9.

My cleric generated a few 250+ endrolls when favor underhunting undead in the Landing, and the max crit damage I saw hovered ~30. Yeah - you might generate a rank 9 on skin - but a high number of the undead that a cleric wants to down quickly are subject to that "can't death crit my ass" rule that they rolled out with golems and non-corporeal undead.

[Khariz]

Couldn't it do like 300 damage in one shot somehow? Pre-nerf 302 I mean...

It didn't even do damage, it was just instant death. When I say pre-nerf, I mean WAY LONG TIME A-FUCKING-GO

[Sean]

It didn't even do damage, it was just instant death. When I say pre-nerf, I mean WAY LONG TIME A-FUCKING-GO

Only if you could generate the proper end rolls and chasing undead around as they run was annoying. But all in all I loved it when it was repel (again the consolidated version not when it was multiple spells). The undead gap was shitty though.

[Danical]

My cleric generated a few 250+ endrolls when favor underhunting undead in the Landing, and the max crit damage I saw hovered ~30. Yeah - you might generate a rank 9 on skin - but a high number of the undead that a cleric wants to down quickly are subject to that "can't death crit my ass" rule that they rolled out with golems and non-corporeal undead.

Non-corp undead has been in the game for over a decade.

The crit damage you are seeing is completely dependent on the location hit. You may only get a rank 8 or 9 30 damage crit if it hits the arm/leg/hand but up to 70 if it hits the chest/back/abs.

An extra 30+ damage is pretty solid on non-corp. Take it for what it's worth.

[Danical]

Only if you could generate the proper end rolls and chasing undead around as they run was annoying. But all in all I loved it when it was repel (again the consolidated version not when it was multiple spells). The undead gap was shitty though.

Repel was a retarded spell. 150+ endroll and instant death. That's just stupid.

It was a 2 mana implosion for all intents and purposes, except you got to keep the phat lewtz. Retarded.

[Khariz]

Repel was a retarded spell. 150+ endroll and instant death. That's just stupid.

It was a 2 mana implosion for all intents and purposes, except you got to keep the phat lewtz. Retarded.

Or, as I thought of it: Best. Spell. Ever.

[Rathain]

Non-corp undead has been in the game for over a decade.

The crit damage you are seeing is completely dependent on the location hit. You may only get a rank 8 or 9 30 damage crit if it hits the arm/leg/hand but up to 70 if it hits the chest/back/abs.

An extra 30+ damage is pretty solid on non-corp. Take it for what it's worth.

Two years ago, you could death crit non corporeal undead. One way was with a plasma critical to the chest. Today, you can't. You should know this - you were the one who posted about being able to induce a death crit on a greater construct from a crossbow bolt to the eye. Can't pull that off anymore.

And I'd like to see a 70 damage acid degeneration crit from a holy bolt. I've casted the spell a crapload, and have never seen one. On most casts of comparable level, you'll be lucky if you get 15.

That 30 damage critical I mentioned was generated from ~65 level differential on a farmhand in Icemule, and they are corporeal undead. If you don't believe me, bug Jenovadeath for his logs and experimentation with the spell. You're arguing mechanics fine, but I get the feeling you've not used the spell much with your own characters.

[Danical]

Two years ago, you could death crit non corporeal undead. One way was with a plasma critical to the chest. Today, you can't. You should know this - you were the one who posted about being able to induce a death crit on a greater construct from a crossbow bolt to the eye. Can't pull that off anymore.

And I'd like to see a 70 damage acid degeneration crit from a holy bolt. I've casted the spell a crapload, and have never seen one. On most casts of comparable level, you'll be lucky if you get 15.

That 30 damage critical I mentioned was generated from ~65 level differential on a farmhand in Icemule, and they are corporeal undead. If you don't believe me, bug Jenovadeath for his logs and experimentation with the spell. You're arguing mechanics fine, but I get the feeling you've not used the spell much with your own characters.

Crit killing non-corp with a rank 8 or 9 plasma crit was a bug. It was absolutely never intended.

It makes sense constructs (i.e., golem-like creatures) don't die from crits.

If the crits from acid are capped, then that makes the spell blow more than a Tijuana whore.

Also, I didn't use the spell because the bolt AS for Clerics at cap fails epically. However, the acid seemed to be good at lower levels. A lot of non-corp undead have skin or near skin so it's not hard to generate a huge crit on them.

Maybe do some testing?

[Rathain]

Crit killing non-corp with a rank 8 or 9 plasma crit was a bug. It was absolutely never intended.

It makes sense constructs (i.e., golem-like creatures) don't die from crits.

If the crits from acid are capped, then that makes the spell blow more than a Tijuana whore.

Also, I didn't use the spell because the bolt AS for Clerics at cap fails epically. However, the acid seemed to be good at lower levels. A lot of non-corp undead have skin or near skin so it's not hard to generate a huge crit on them.

Maybe do some testing?

I'm not doing a good job stating my point, but the gist is this :

This acid degeneration effect has already been tested by a few people - that's how we formed an opinion.

Clerics can generate (self cast) a bolt AS of ~420. It's just not enough to generate high end rolls. It's not misleading to say that the effect is laughable when: at like level, the acid degen causes 5-10 damage provided you wait 5 or more seconds for it occur, and is even more laughable when you underhunt massively and generate a significant end roll only to boost the damage to 30 (provided again, you wait 5 or more seconds for the effect to occur). It's not like a ball splash effect - sometimes, I got in a second or third cast before the effect kicked in.

I don't know for certain if the crit is capped for the acid effect, but practical usage of the spell makes it seem that way. It's not the first time a crit effect has been capped in the cleric circle. One example is the plasma critical for 302 when compared to 317. Granted, the plasma critical fluctuates widely for 317, but the greatest crit it can confer is one you'll never see with 302 no matter the warding margin. If anything, for all the good work Estild and Oscuro have done, they are also ballbusters when it comes to additions/bug fixes/updates, so the subsequently capped acid crits wouldn't surprise me one bit.

[Tea & Strumpets]

It makes sense constructs (i.e., golem-like creatures) don't die from crits.



Isn't that a relatively recent change (constructs being uncrittable)? Most of my OTF hunting was during GS3, but I used to crit kill constructs all the time. As a giant, I could just cast 117 and ambush their abdomens like I did all the way through the stronghold for one-shot kills.

FU ambush nerf.

[Flurbins]

I sure do miss repel.
I also miss the 400 raw damage + crit up to 75ish if it survived 302.

Too bad they can't make anything that powerful anymore with fixskills in the game.

[ViridianAsp]

i've never had a chance to toy with it. but holy bolt itself was always a good spell, so i figured that additional damage was always nice.



Holy bolt is a great spell, I had my cleric trained in spell aim she could easily hunt five to ten levels over her head with it, but when she hit 50 it slowly lost it's edge. It really sucks that when you hit 50 this spell becomes pretty much useless.


As for 302, I don't even use it anymore, because I get a better or more effective hit with 317 or 312. It is mana intensive but she has enough mana to blow. It would be nice when she hunts places that swarm to cast a 319 then use 302 to pick off critters again with effectiveness.