Skinning

[Slider]

Ok, i'm a little confused about the new skinning system. Currently i have 45 ranks in survival, 25 ranks in first aid, always skin with a knife, very rarely have any wounds on me, and i STILL can't manage to skin waerns more than 50% of the time at best. WTF? How many ranks in this do you need to skin a like-leveled critter consistantly?

[TheEschaton]

I think first aid is still the main factor. And if you're hunting waerns, you've probably got about .5x FA.

To give a hint, my empath has 2x FA, and no survival, and skins snow madrinols every single time, no problem.

-TheE-

[J-Tech]

Waerns are also tough critters to skin if i remember correctly. (Its been over 2 years since i hunted the rift)

-John

[Jonty]

With 72 FA ranks I skin waerns just fine.

[pennywise]

waerns are in bonespear.

[Jonty]

Originally posted by pennywise
waerns are in bonespear.

:lol: Yes, they are.

[Latrinsorm]

First aid and Survival are equally important, and skinning is on a rank based system. Thus, 2xFA is just as good as 1xSurvival and 1xFA, which would be just as good as 1xFA in GS3, were that game still around. Skinning is harder now, yes. And empaths' first aid cost is waaaay too cheap. Lousy vultures. :grr:

[Jonty]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
First aid and Survival are equally important, and skinning is on a rank based system. Thus, 2xFA is just as good as 1xSurvival and 1xFA, which would be just as good as 1xFA in GS3, were that game still around. Skinning is harder now, yes. And empaths' first aid cost is waaaay too cheap. Lousy vultures. :grr:

And where did you hear that they are EQUALLY important. I recall no GM stating this, or any announcement. Last statement I recall was that FA would count more towards skinning than originally planned. This doesn't mean they are equal.

Though, I don't read much of the Official boards annymore, so...

[Miss X]

Mwhaha Empaths rule. I 3x first aid (helps bone shatter) and .5x survival and since GS4 I've botched 1 skin. Chica is a lot better at skinning now than in GS3.
I should take advantage of it more but I'm so lazy when I hunt.
Vx

[Bobmuhthol]

Survival is supposed to be more important than first aid in skinning.

I don't know or care, but that's what was originally released.

[Mint]

I had no idea that first aid affected bone shatter. No wonder my 1106 sucks

[Miss X]

Yeah, it was originally like that but last I heard they had changed it and made first aid the primary skill needed for skinning and survival the secondary.
I got that from the official boards somewhere a while ago.
Vx

[Jonty]

Originally posted by Miss X
I 3x first aid (helps bone shatter)

It does? I don't read the empath folder anymore on the official boards. But The only thing I remember reading that helped bone shatter was manipulation lore and OHC wth channel.

[Jonty]

Originally posted by Miss X
Yeah, it was originally like that but last I heard they had changed it and made first aid the primary skill needed for skinning and survival the secondary.
I got that from the official boards somewhere a while ago.
Vx

Huh? Now I'm confused. One of you says they are equal, and the other says FA counts more.

Can one of you point me to where you heard these things?

[Kia]

Based on what I've heard from ranger friends, I think FA and Survival are weighted pretty much equally. If that's the case, you could 2x FA and be good, or 1x FA and 1x Survival, or 2x Survival.

To be really good, kneel and skin with a knife.

To be an uber skinner, 2x in both!

KIA.

[Miss X]

Originally posted by Mint
I had no idea that first aid affected bone shatter. No wonder my 1106 sucks

First aid increases the chances of critting per cast as far as I know. The info is on the official boards, empath folder.
I didnt know till I asked Nakiro why my bone shatter was so crap....
Vx

[Bobmuhthol]

First aid affects bone shatter positively.
Kneeling does not help with skinning.
Being in defensive stance does help with skinning.
First aid/survival are not weighted equally; one is more important than the other, apparently first aid.

[Jonty]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
Kneeling does not help with skinning.


According to Porcell's testing, it helps with either the initial success of skinning the critter or the quality of the skin. I forgot which.

[Miss X]

No idea what folder I read it in Jonty. Before I reallocated my empath I read the official boards for ages to make sure I wasnt missing out on any info.

As for the first aid helping bone shatter, a GM posted it on the boards (it may have been Uliq?) He said Manipulation and first aid are the skills that affect bone shatter.
Vx

[Bobmuhthol]

Ah, it was probably quality. I know someone skinned ~250 things under each influence, and kneeling yielded the same amount of skins.

[Kia]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
First aid affects bone shatter positively.
Kneeling does not help with skinning.
Being in defensive stance does help with skinning.
First aid/survival are not weighted equally; one is more important than the other, apparently first aid.

Sorry Bob, kneeling does help with skinning.

FA and Survival are weighted equally. (This statement has been posted on the boards by GMs more than once)

You are right about the Bone Shatter effects, though. Yay :)

KIA.

Misinformation is bad!

[Bobmuhthol]

<<(This statement has been posted on the boards by GMs more than once)>>

It was also in the official documentation, and posted a few times, that survival was the primary.

[Jonty]

So, if I change my empath from 1x FA to 2x FA, will I see a noticable difference with bone shatter?

[Bobmuhthol]

You should.

Also, my warrior has 1x FA, why isn't your empath at LEAST 2xing?

[Kia]

Originally posted by Jonty
So, if I change my empath from 1x FA to 2x FA, will I see a noticable difference with bone shatter?

Ya. Get the proper lore training too.

My empath isn't really a pure (no FA and no lore training), so she doesn't use 1106, but I've seen a lot of empaths wipe the floor with that spell.

KIA.

[J-Tech]

Originally posted by pennywise
waerns are in bonespear.

My bad, i was thinking Aivren.

-John

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
Also, my warrior has 1x FA, why isn't your empath at LEAST 2xing? Because your warrior is a puss? :D Chill, chill, chill.

[Jonty]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
Also, my warrior has 1x FA, why isn't your empath at LEAST 2xing?

My warrior is also 1x in FA.

This is my empath's training:

Armor Use..........................| 35 7
Two-Handed Weapons.................| 130 35
Physical Fitness...................| 130 35
Arcane Symbols.....................| 78 17
Magic Item Use.....................| 78 17
Spell Aiming.......................| 170 70
Harness Power......................| 130 35
Spirit Mana Control................| 130 35
Spiritual Lore - Blessings.........| 130 35
Perception.........................| 130 35
Climbing...........................| 58 12
Swimming...........................| 58 12
First Aid..........................| 130 35
Pickpocketing......................| 130 35

Spell Lists
Major Spirit.......................| 25

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 30

Spell Lists
Empath.............................| 19

I sacrificed 13 armor ranks to get 4 empath spells 2 trains early. So, he'll have to wait 2 trains to get those armor ranks, plus 2 more.

I didn't see any reason for me to do more than 1x FA. He doesn't hunt much, and never uses herbs. I may scratch pickpocketing to do 2x FA for bone shatter. I don't know yet. He does fine killing things with his two-handers and bolts, plus a channeled bone shatter cast here and there.

[Jonty]

Originally posted by Kia
Ya. Get the proper lore training too.

My empath isn't really a pure (no FA and no lore training), so she doesn't use 1106, but I've seen a lot of empaths wipe the floor with that spell.

KIA.

No, I'd rather not 2x lores. I'm not that concerned about bone shatter. It works ok with the channel verb and he does fine platting things with two-handers and fire bolts. The flaring fire balls are nice too.

[Kia]

Ooo. I like your empath's training! I never met a two-handed weapon using empath before.

Here's mine:

Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 120 30
Shield Use.........................| 165 65
Combat Maneuvers...................| 151 51
Edged Weapons......................| 166 66
Physical Fitness...................| 105 25
Arcane Symbols.....................| 128 34
Magic Item Use.....................| 128 34
Harness Power......................| 231 131
Mental Mana Control................| 128 34
Spirit Mana Control................| 128 34
Perception.........................| 166 66
Climbing...........................| 102 24
Swimming...........................| 102 24
Trading............................| 166 66

Spell Lists
Major Spirit.......................| 40

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 40

Spell Lists
Empath.............................| 51

I don't know why, but I've always been a Perception junky. What does it really do for me? Not much. I figured I didn't need FA because I don't care to skin and I don't need to use herbs. Don't really need lores at this point because I don't use spells to hunt. We'll see what happens when empaths lose the major spirit spell circle though....

KIA.

[Kia]

Originally posted by Jonty
No, I'd rather not 2x lores. I'm not that concerned about bone shatter. It works ok with the channel verb and he does fine platting things with two-handers and fire bolts. The flaring fire balls are nice too.

2x in lores would be unncessary and very costly.

KIA.

[Jonty]

You use OHEs to hunt? I can't stand OHWs without ambushing from hiding anymore.

[Kia]

Originally posted by Jonty
You use OHEs to hunt? I can't stand OHWs without ambushing from hiding anymore.

Since the advent of GS4, Celeri has become an excellent hunting empath. Her AS can rival that of any other profession her same level, and its often even better - which was definitely not the case in GS3.

I'd like to see more CM skills for 'all professions' so I can use up some of those CM points!

I am admittedly a little worried about the fate of 'semi' type empaths when the minor mental circle comes out, but we'll see what happens.

I made a aelotoi 'pure' empath not too long ago. It was PAINFUL to get her to level 10. I don't know how people do it! +38 AS in rats (and that was with strength) for 10 levels was awful. Its not like you can use 1106 to fry with 35 mana.

KIA.

[Jonty]

Why do you 2x harness power if you don't use spells to hunt? And why not get blessing lore to add you your AS since you hunt with a weapon?

[Edited on 2-6-2004 by Jonty]

[Mint]

I am getting such an education in training empaths in this thread. My cup runneth over.

[Kia]

Originally posted by Jonty
Why do you 2x harness power if you don't use spells to hunt? And why not get blessing lore to add you your AS since you hunt with a weapon?

[Edited on 2-6-2004 by Jonty]

1. Harness Power = mana. I do a lot of field healing. You know how it is, you're an empath, people expect you to heal them. I just do it and move on :P

I might use 214 if I'm swarmed by mean critters and that takes mana too!

2. Don't have the points for lores. I prefer the CM. I haven't done the math to see which way ends up better, to tell the truth.

KIA.

[Jonty]

Originally posted by Kia
You know how it is, you're an empath, people expect you to heal them. I just do it and move on :P

Hehe, I don't heal people in where I hunt unless it's minor, a wound that won't hinder my hunting, or I'm almost fried. If they're dying, I'll give them blood and keep hunting.

But in non-hunting situations where I really need more mana, like an invasion, I'll wrack.



I might use 214 if I'm swarmed by mean critters and that takes mana too!

Yeah, that's a pain.


2. Don't have the points for lores. I prefer the CM. I haven't done the math to see which way ends up better, to tell the truth.

Me neither! :lol: But my empath will start training in CM as well after he gets 70 ranks of armor at around 70th level. I want to get him into double chain armor.

[Kia]

Holy amor training batman!

That's pretty neat, though. I'll be pointing and laughing at your hindrance. :P

KIA.

[Jonty]

Originally posted by Kia
Holy amor training batman!

That's pretty neat, though. I'll be pointing and laughing at your hindrance. :P

KIA.

Actually, the hinderance for double chain isn't bad if you're fully trained for it. Any AsG after double chain for empaths is bad though.

[Jonty]

I did some math. CM is much better for AS in your case. I think I might ditch lore and do CM also. Though my bolt AS will be slightly lower. Not a big deal though, since it would only be 10 AS lower at 100 trains. CM is better.

You're also the first person to refer to me as an empath! :lol:

[Edited on 2-6-2004 by Jonty]

[Kia]

Originally posted by Jonty
I did some math. CM is much better for AS in your case. I think I might ditch lore and do CM also. Though my bolt AS will be slightly lower. Not a big deal though, since it would only be 10 AS lower at 100 trains. CM is better.

You're alos thr first person to refer to me as an empath! :lol:

[Edited on 2-6-2004 by Jonty]

Yay for you doing math! I fear numbers.

As to your empath-ness... what else should I refer to you as?

KIA.

[Jonty]

Originally posted by Kia
Yay for you doing math! I fear numbers.

As to your empath-ness... what else should I refer to you as?

KIA.

Most people know me as a warrior.

If I switch my empath to CM instead of blessing lore he won't be able to use runestaves. They suck anyway, hmm.

[Kia]

Originally posted by Jonty
If I switch my empath to CM instead of blessing lore he won't be able to use runestaves. They suck anyway, hmm.

There is no reason for you to use a runestaff. Unless you think they make your character look hot or something. :D

[Jonty]

Originally posted by Kia
There is no reason for you to use a runestaff. Unless you think they make your character look hot or something. :D

Yeah, I know. I just wanted him to be able to use them for the hell of it.

[KymberlynX]

Originally posted by Jonty
Most people know me as a warrior.

If I switch my empath to CM instead of blessing lore he won't be able to use runestaves. They suck anyway, hmm.

True...and you've pretty much turned your empath into a warrior too...I've seen him hunt...he's awesome.

[Jonty]

Originally posted by KymberlynX

Originally posted by Jonty
Most people know me as a warrior.

If I switch my empath to CM instead of blessing lore he won't be able to use runestaves. They suck anyway, hmm.

True...and you've pretty much turned your empath into a warrior too...I've seen him hunt...he's awesome.

Actually, I'm going to keep blessing lore for the AS and ditch pick pocketing for CM. He'll be an AS whore. And he'll be able to still use a runestaff for the hell of it. :lol:

[Askip]

The effect of Survival on skinning was changed without the doc being updated.

Per SIMU-JOSH on 12/04/2003:

They're weighted equally. Doubling survival would be the same to skinning as singling survival and first aid. And so forth.

http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=30&category=101&topic=9&page=26

Also, I believe that kneeling research showed that kneeling would not improve the quality of the pelt, just improve the initial chance to get a pelt at all. That info is second hand though.

:D

[Jonty]

Originally posted by Askip
The effect of Survival on skinning was changed without the doc being updated.

Per SIMU-JOSH on 12/04/2003:

They're weighted equally. Doubling survival would be the same to skinning as singling survival and first aid. And so forth.

http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=30&category=101&topic=9&page=26

Also, I believe that kneeling research showed that kneeling would not improve the quality of the pelt, just improve the initial chance to get a pelt at all. That info is second hand though.

:D

Thanks, that's what I was looking for. I hate that they don't post these changes in the General Announcements folder. I don't feel like reading every topic just incase they decide to change something.

[Kia]

Originally posted by Jonty
Thanks, that's what I was looking for. I hate that they don't post these changes in the General Announcements folder. I don't feel like reading every topic just incase they decide to change something.

Well, that wasn't really a change, more like a clarification, but I agree with you. Actually, that little tidbit should be on the skills page on the website so everyone can find it whenever...

Doobeedoo.

KIA.

[Jonty]

Originally posted by Kia
Well, that wasn't really a change, more like a clarification, but I agree with you. Actually, that little tidbit should be on the skills page on the website so everyone can find it whenever...

Doobeedoo.

KIA.

It was a change from their last announcement.

Oh, BTW, I just looked at the hinderances for double chain again. With 70 ranks the hinderances would be:

MnS: 8%
MjS: 9%
Emp: 9%

[Kia]

Originally posted by Jonty
It was a change from their last announcement.

Oh, BTW, I just looked at the hinderances for double chain again. With 70 ranks the hinderances would be:

MnS: 8%
MjS: 9%
Emp: 9%

Hmm... no, it wasn't, but ok. :)

Anyways. Are you sure about that spell hindrance? I think mine is 11% right now in brig with 30 ranks. I'm not the math girl to ask, but it doesn't seem right.

http://www.play.net/gs4/info/armory/armor.asp

KIA.

[Jonty]

35 ranks ;)