The Sea Shepherd Capt. was shot.

[CaptContagious]

http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/news-080307-2.html

I am all for what these people are doing, but for fucks sake... atlest TRY and do some research before attempting to pull off a FAKE assassination attempt.

[Ignot]

Wow that's one hell of a shot. I don't know what to think of the Steve Irwin (terrible name btw) and crew. I do think that we need to stop the illegal slaughter of whales.

But I also don't think we should resort to borderline piracy and endanger human lives. I've seen the show a few times and the Steve Irwin peeps are extreme.

On the other hand, the Japanese boats that I have seen on the TV show work under the guise of "medical research" and it's perfectly legal to kill whales for research. Now, obviously most of us are not that naive to believe they are doing it for research but I think more should be done politically then tossing homemade firebombs unto boats.

I guess I wanted to cheer on the Steve Irwin crew when I first started watching that show but I found myself just feeling bad for the Japanese people and I thought the Steve Irwin crew looked like crazy jerks.

Don't get me wrong killing whales is not cool.

And WTF? Nobody cares about the sharks??

[Revalos]

And WTF? Nobody cares about the sharks??

My cousin sat our entire family down to watch Sharkwater over Thanksgiving. The Sea Shepherd and crew did feature in some of it protecting sharks and getting chased out of Costa Rica by their navy (a bass boat with a guy with an AK-47).

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Wow that's one hell of a shot. I don't know what to think of the Steve Irwin (terrible name btw) and crew. I do think that we need to stop the illegal slaughter of whales.

But I also don't think we should resort to borderline piracy and endanger human lives. I've seen the show a few times and the Steve Irwin peeps are extreme.

On the other hand, the Japanese boats that I have seen on the TV show work under the guise of "medical research" and it's perfectly legal to kill whales for research. Now, obviously most of us are not that naive to believe they are doing it for research but I think more should be done politically then tossing homemade firebombs unto boats.

I guess I wanted to cheer on the Steve Irwin crew when I first started watching that show but I found myself just feeling bad for the Japanese people and I thought the Steve Irwin crew looked like crazy jerks.

Don't get me wrong killing whales is not cool.

And WTF? Nobody cares about the sharks??

I actually am glad someone is trying to stop it, even if it means using violence.

Australia passed a law making it illegal to kill ANY whales (even for "research") in the Australian-Antarctic whale sanctuary, but have done absolutely nothing to stop it. Japanese factory ships are still there killing whales and no Government is stepping in to make it stop. What the Japanese are doing is poaching and really illegal.

So is ramming another boat, firing on another boat, bombing another boat, extreme? Sure. But I can't really frown on it or think it's bad.. it's not like he's simply attacking random boats and demanding they go vegan or something ridiculous like that. They're endangered animals that have no defense against the factory ships, I'm glad someone is trying to keep them safe.

[Clove]

Two wrongs don't make a right. While I understand that they are breaking Australian law, vigilantism isn't the solution. This is the same rational abortion clinic bombers and other terrorists use and (legal distinctions aside) ultimately it simply breeds more violence.

Additionally, from what I've seen of Whale Wars the Steve Irwin crew is incredibly unskilled in seamanship, which is a recipe for disaster in Antartic waters against professional sailors. Frankly I think it's reckless to lead an unprepared crew into waters like that to wage a private war.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Two wrongs don't make a right. While I understand that they are breaking Australian law, vigilantism isn't the solution. This is the same rational abortion clinic bombers and other terrorists use and (legal distinctions aside) ultimately it simply breeds more violence.

Additionally, from what I've seen of Whale Wars the Steve Irwin crew is incredibly unskilled in seamanship, which is a recipe for disaster in Antartic waters against professional sailors. Frankly I think it's reckless to lead an unprepared crew into waters like that to wage a private war.

He's not doing anything illegal. He's been arrested, but he's never been convicted of anything or officially charged, nor has he been sued or anything like that. If what he's doing is "wrong" then that's a matter of perspective.

I don't usually agree with vigilantism, but I don't think anything would be done at all if it weren't for these people. Since it's clear that no government wants to get involved, there's really no alternative for people who really care (i.e. turning a blind eye isn't a viable option).

There's a quote from him from an interview that springs to mind:

"We are conditioned to respond is socially acceptable ways i.e. protests, petitions boycotts etc. We also have the problem that nature and other species are an abstraction to us. Humans fight for property, for immediate self defense and for religion. Hominids are a self centered species. When people ask how I can risk human life to protect a whale, I cite the fact that we do not think it is unnatural or unethical to risk our lives and to kill over property like land and oil. And we accept dying and killing for ridiculous religious beliefs. I think fighting for endangered species and threatened habitats to be much nobler."

If him and his crew want to risk their necks to save whales, more power to them.

[Tea & Strumpets]

"We are conditioned to respond is socially acceptable ways i.e. protests, petitions boycotts etc. We also have the problem that nature and other species are an abstraction to us. Humans fight for property, for immediate self defense and for religion. Hominids are a self centered species. When people ask how I can risk human life to protect a whale, I cite the fact that we do not think it is unnatural or unethical to risk our lives and to kill over property like land and oil. And we accept dying and killing for ridiculous religious beliefs. I think fighting for endangered species and threatened habitats to be much nobler."

If him and his crew want to risk their necks to save whales, more power to them.

That's a bad quote because the guy is just polishing his own nuts ("Saving a whale is more noble than all religions and/or fighting in a war"). I think whoever you quoted is a giant self-involved shithead, but that's just an opinion.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

That's a bad quote because the guy is just polishing his own nuts ("Saving a whale is more noble than all religions and/or fighting in a war"). I think whoever you quoted is a giant self-involved shithead, but that's just an opinion.

Of course he's self-righteous and a prick. The point being driven at though is that it's a matter of your perspective/priorities. I don't necessarily agree with his cynical views of humanity, but I don't fault him for what he does or having his own views.

[Ignot]

He's not doing anything illegal.

I saw him throw bombs at this Japanese so-called research boat. Then his men boarded the boat in an act of piracy. With that logic, throwing bombs at a boat isn't illegal just like killing whales under the guise of science isn't illegal. They are still both wrong, IMO.


but I don't fault him for what he does or having his own views.

Neither do I.



Additionally, from what I've seen of Whale Wars the Steve Irwin crew is incredibly unskilled in seamanship.

LoL yeah, they looked unskilled in everything. Except manipulating the media, they do that pretty well.

[Back]

That's a bad quote because the guy is just polishing his own nuts ("Saving a whale is more noble than all religions and/or fighting in a war"). I think whoever you quoted is a giant self-involved shithead, but that's just an opinion.

Just curious... do you think the person is a shithead just because they are claiming that what they do is more noble than doing something else, or is it specifically the comparison of saving whales/religious wars?

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

I saw him throw bombs at this Japanese so-called research boat. Then his men boarded the boat in an act of piracy. With that logic, throwing bombs at a boat isn't illegal just like killing whales under the guise of science isn't illegal.

True.

[Tea & Strumpets]

Just curious... do you think the person is a shithead just because they are claiming that what they do is more noble than doing something else, or is it specifically the comparison of saving whales/religious wars?

I wasn't talking about religious wars, I was talking about religion & wars, which were the 2 examples he used to explain why he was more noble. He just made a very poor justification for his actions, and I thought it was incredibly arrogant. He either thinks his intended audience is full of imbeciles, or he is one himself.

[Clove]

If him and his crew want to risk their necks to save whales, more power to them.It's reckless just the same. Some of his crew early in the series weren't very keen on risking their lives as recklessly as the Captain wanted; a circumstance that frustrated him.

Personally, I'd revoke his captain's license, considering his custom of endangering improperly trained crew-members and his acts of piracy. The only thing separating his crew from proficiency is the money and time that training takes. Apparently his crew's lives are less valuable than a whale's.

[TheEschaton]

Violence is never the answer. Even to protect whales. Edit: WTF am I saying? ESPECIALLY to protect whales.

(BTW, who the fuck cares if whales go extinct? Do we rely on them for anything? No? Fuck them.)

It reminds me of the Denis Leary skit about saving dolphins, now recreated for your pleasure:

"I hate these people who are constantly whining, 'DON'T EAT TUNA FISH!!!'
Why not?
Because dolphins get trapped in the tuna fishing nets!!!!!!!
Wait, what about the tuna fish?
Well, fuck them, they taste good!

[Back]

I wasn't talking about religious wars, I was talking about religion & wars, which were the 2 examples he used to explain why he was more noble. He just made a very poor justification for his actions, and I thought it was incredibly arrogant. He either thinks his intended audience is full of imbeciles, or he is one himself.

So you felt that the person did not use an appropriate example to justify calling their actions more noble than other actions? What would have been a more appropriate example?

[Tea & Strumpets]

So you felt that the person did not use an appropriate example to justify calling their actions more noble than other actions? What would have been a more appropriate example?

I thought I already explained it. Here's a better analogy: "Hey you Japs on that boat, I'm Paul Watson a citizen of Canada, and I am here to make a citizen's arrest on behalf of Australia!"

[Clove]

Dennis: What are you?

Otter: I'm an otter.

Dennis: And what do you do?

Otter: I swim around on my back and do cute little human things with my hands.

Dennis: You're free to go. And what are you?

Cow: I'm a cow.

Denis: Get in the fucking truck, ok pal!

Cow: But I'm an animal.

Dennis: You're a baseball glove! Get on that truck!

Cow: I'm an animal, I have rights!

Dennis: (pointing at leather jacket) Yeah, here's yer fucking cousin, get on the fucking truck, pal!Best comedian ever. Worst actor ever.

[CaptContagious]

[QUOTE=Ignot;870557]I saw him throw bombs at this Japanese so-called research boat. Then his men boarded the boat in an act of piracy. With that logic, throwing bombs at a boat isn't illegal just like killing whales under the guise of science isn't illegal. They are still both wrong, IMO.



Throwing rotten butter "bombs" to taint the meat of any poached whales and ruthlessly murdering whales is not quiet the same. the Japanese though were in fact throwing "concussion" grenades at the Steve Irwin Crew which is when the possible shooting took place.

As for the boarding of the boat as an act of piracy...

Main Entry: pi·ra·cy
Pronunciation: 'pI-r&-sE
Function: noun
Inflected Form: plural -cies
1 : an act of robbery esp. on the high seas; specifically : an illegal act of violence, detention, or plunder committed for private ends by crew or passengers of a private ship or aircraft against another ship or aircraft on the high seas or in a place outside the jurisdiction of any state

They boarded to serve a notice demanding they leave the sanctuary. Not rob pillage loot and plunder. Even with that said... it was a retarded thing to do. and sending two guys that don't speak Japanese is even worse cause someone could of gotten killed.

The Fake Assassination is just completely retarded... the shot was damn near impossible, IF you get shot while wearing a bulletproof vest it still hurts like a mother fucker and should we all be reminded of objects in motion tend to stay in motion. the kenedic(sp?) energy from that shot at that range would have put him on his ass with a quickness. And left on hell of a bruise. I call bullshit.

[Ignot]

(BTW, who the fuck cares if whales go extinct? Do we rely on them for anything? No? Fuck them.)



Not only that but can we really trust an animal that goes against the flow of nature? Some things just don't make sense.

Like an animal living in water but breathing air? A bird that swims but can't fly? An animal that bleeds one week out of the month but doesn't die?

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

If we kill all the whales and dolphins, then no one will be able to warn us when the Earth is about to be destroyed by space aliens who write awful poetry.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojydNb3Lrrs

[Ignot]

Throwing rotten butter "bombs" to taint the meat of any poached whales and ruthlessly murdering whales is not quiet the same. the Japanese though were in fact throwing "concussion" grenades at the Steve Irwin Crew which is when the possible shooting took place.

As for the boarding of the boat as an act of piracy...


Oh c'mon don't be that guy that goes looking up the definition of piracy to try to find a hole in a comment, that's weak. The bottom line is, they assaulted the Japanese boat and boarded without permission.

What would you do if you were a member of a crew and some random ship comes up and starts shouting in a language you don't understand, throws bombs at you, then boards the ship? Is your first reaction "oh wait, lets see what they have to say."?

Don't forget, the Japanese have a different culture then we do. They kill sharks all the time and its part of their culture, we don't. They kill whales, we don't. They all know kung fu, we don't.

Don't get me wrong I think killing whales is wrong and I think it's fine if the Steve Irwin crew wants to try and stop it but I don't agree with their methods.

[CaptContagious]

not some random ship. The Steve Irwin and the japanese whaling fleet have been feuding for a while now.

[Drew]

I think it's fine that they should get to try to stop the whaling, as long as I can send my vessel after them in pursuit of commerce. We'll just mess around with the whale people and bomb them because they are stopping commerce and science.

[Ignot]

I think it's fine that they should get to try to stop the whaling, as long as I can send my vessel after them in pursuit of commerce. We'll just mess around with the whale people and bomb them because they are stopping commerce and science.

Which one is theE's sister in your sig? If it's the tan chick then yeah, but she would have to change her weave or something.

[Clove]

(a) any illegal acts of violence or detention, or any act of depredation, committed for private ends by the crew or the passengers of a private ship or a private aircraft, and directed:

(i) on the high seas, against another ship or aircraft, or against persons or property on board such ship or aircraft;

(ii) against a ship, aircraft, persons or property in a place outside the jurisdiction of any State;

(b) any act of voluntary participation in the operation of a ship or of an aircraft with knowledge of facts making it a pirate ship or aircraft;

(c) any act of inciting or of intentionally facilitating an act described in subparagraph (a) or (b).

Article102

Piracy by a warship, government ship or government aircraft whose crew has mutinied

The acts of piracy, as defined in article 101, committed by a warship, government ship or government aircraft whose crew has mutinied and taken control of the ship or aircraft are assimilated to acts committed by a private ship or aircraft.

Article103

Definition of a pirate ship or aircraft

A ship or aircraft is considered a pirate ship or aircraft if it is intended by the persons in dominant control to be used for the purpose of committing one of the acts referred to in article 101. The same applies if the ship or aircraft has been used to commit any such act, so long as it remains under the control of the persons guilty of that act.

[DeV]

Which one is theE's sister in your sig? If it's the tan chick then yeah, but she would have to change her weave or something.TheE's sister is on your right. She doesn't have a tan or weave from what I can see. My bad if you are referring to the other girl.

[Back]

I thought I already explained it. Here's a better analogy: "Hey you Japs on that boat, I'm Paul Watson a citizen of Canada, and I am here to make a citizen's arrest on behalf of Australia!"

askjdashfsakl

I understand your feelings on the whole affair. I was just curious as to why you found that quote arrogant and why the person was a shithead for saying it.

[Ignot]

TheE's sister is on your right. She doesn't have a tan or weave from what I can see. My bad if you are referring to the other girl.

No tan? Well then she has nice skin. You sure that's not weave..?

[Stanley Burrell]

It's the whales' fault for taking whale-sized poops in the water and polluting the environment.

[CaptContagious]

(a) any illegal acts of violence or detention, or any act of depredation, committed for private ends by the crew or the passengers of a private ship or a private aircraft, and directed:

(i) on the high seas, against another ship or aircraft, or against persons or property on board such ship or aircraft;

(ii) against a ship, aircraft, persons or property in a place outside the jurisdiction of any State;

(b) any act of voluntary participation in the operation of a ship or of an aircraft with knowledge of facts making it a pirate ship or aircraft;

(c) any act of inciting or of intentionally facilitating an act described in subparagraph (a) or (b).

Article102

Piracy by a warship, government ship or government aircraft whose crew has mutinied

The acts of piracy, as defined in article 101, committed by a warship, government ship or government aircraft whose crew has mutinied and taken control of the ship or aircraft are assimilated to acts committed by a private ship or aircraft.

Article103

Definition of a pirate ship or aircraft

A ship or aircraft is considered a pirate ship or aircraft if it is intended by the persons in dominant control to be used for the purpose of committing one of the acts referred to in article 101. The same applies if the ship or aircraft has been used to commit any such act, so long as it remains under the control of the persons guilty of that act.

I thought the Sanctuary that all this was in was in some states jurisdiction?

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

I thought the Sanctuary that all this was in was in some states jurisdiction?

Australian waters, yup.

[Tea & Strumpets]

askjdashfsakl

I understand your feelings on the whole affair. I was just curious as to why you found that quote arrogant and why the person was a shithead for saying it.

How could I be any more clear without spelling it out point by point? He compares his own personal crusade to two things he thinks are a reality and idiotic (religion and America's crusade to bathe in oil every night). He's not trying to say "I'm an idiot just like those two", but rather he's trying to legitimize his own efforts by comparing them to ideals he considers idiotic.

He's too much of a dope to realize he's using a flawed argument.

[Clove]

It takes place in the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary where whaling has been internationally banned. It is in Antarctic waters, i.e. open seas, not Australian waters. They frequently quote Australian law but it hasn't anymore jurisdiction there than it does the Atlantic Ocean.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

It takes place in the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary where whaling has been internationally banned. It is in Antarctic waters, i.e. open seas, not Australian waters. They frequently quote Australian law but it hasn't anymore jurisdiction there than it does the Atlantic Ocean.

There's an area within the sanctuary, the Australian Antarctic Economic Exclusion Zone, that's used by Whalers to hunt and is in fact legally Australian "waters".

[Back]

How could I be any more clear without spelling it out point by point? He compares his own personal crusade to two things he thinks are a reality and idiotic (religion and America's crusade to bathe in oil every night). He's not trying to say "I'm an idiot just like those two", but rather he's trying to legitimize his own efforts by comparing them to ideals he considers idiotic.

He's too much of a dope to realize he's using a flawed argument.

Flawed by your definition. Going back to the quote, whoever said that makes gross comparisons. Yes, risking one’s or others lives to save another life is not the same as risking one’s or others lives for the sake of religion or material wealth.

Usually you are spot on and I enjoy your posts, T&S. I took your original comment as a flippant “goody-two-shoes” slam that everyone loves. Now that you have explained your POV I can see the inadequacies of the argument...

Risking a life to save another life /= killing another life for an abstract concept.

[Clove]

There's an area within the sanctuary, the Australian Antarctic Economic Exclusion Zone, that's used by Whalers to hunt and is in fact legally Australian "waters".An economic exclusion zone gives a country development rights, and it is in fact not the same as territorial waters.


Australia also claimed, in its submission to the UN Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf, an EEZ of 200 nautical miles (370 km) from its Antarctic Territory but has requested it not be considered, in accordance with the Antarctic Treaty. Nevertheless, Australia maintains the right to explore and exploit the seabed and water column within its EEZ.

The Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary is defined by international law, not Australian law because it isn't in Australian waters.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

An economic exclusion zone gives a country development rights, it is not the same as territorial waters.



The Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary is defined by international law, not Australian law because it isn't in Australian waters.

Good to know, if I ever want to go save whales.