Take action

[Ravenstorm]

http://www.aclu.org/NationalSecurity/NationalSecurity.cfm?ID=13907&c=24

Raven

[i remember halloween]

no

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by i remember halloween
no

Mainly because I hate the ACLU.. But also because I'm not a terrorist and I don't care if they sneak and peak.

[Edited on 2-4-2004 by Hulkein]

[Pierat]

Library records should be public. Ill tell you why too. Its called going to your local "public library". If you want privacy, you can pay for it, get 20 bucks and buy the book at barnes and nobles. Things that are done in public, are not private. The FBI is not going into my home and checking what books I have. Nor are they (I hope not and if they are then ill sign it) reading my credit card statements to see what im buying. Mind you buying explosives should be "checked out" but thats at the purschasing end, not via my personal credit records. Furthemore, cash is king, you want privacy get to know and love those fluffy green bills

[Skirmisher]

Pierat, read more about the Patriot act on the site.

That and the additions that Ashcroft et al would love to have tacked on.

Them coming into your home and checking what books you have with no search warrant and your presence in no way being required are only some of the powers the govt will have over you.

Everyone who thinks that just because you are not actually guilty of something that you are safe needs to listen up.

People getr convicted now of things they did not do. With the Patriot act, you do not even have to be convicted....merely have someone say they SUSPECT that you MAY have something to do with terrorist activity.

Unlimited jail time with no charges ever even filed.
Its not just for breakfast anymore.

[StrayRogue]

Forgive me for being ignorant, but that link doesn't seem to be working for me; Is this act passed, or looking to be passed anytime soon? And who by?

[Hulkein]

It's already passed Stray.. it was approved by Congress. It's an issue again because it was only set to last 2 years I believe? Well it's about to run out and it needs to get passed again etc. It was put into action after 9/11.

I understand your point Skirmisher, but I'm going to have to say I don't care, I know I won't get locked up for no reason.

[Pallon]

Maybe if library records had been public they would have caught that guy in Seven before he killed as many people

[StrayRogue]

I suppose you have that reassurance Hulkein, I know many other people, those more liberal and vocal in their politics do not, however. Personally I think its another step closer to a Police state. See no evil, Hear no evil.

[Ravenstorm]

It goes way beyond mere library records. Somethign else to take into account is that this is a bipartisan bill that Bush has threatened to veto. It can not possibly pass without Republican support. You don't need to be a so-called 'liberal' to realize how parts of the Patriot Act are subject to abuse.

Raven

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Pallon
Maybe if library records had been public they would have caught that guy in Seven before he killed as many people Is there any possible logic behind that, or did we just get another of Pallon's Periodic Posts of Pfunniness?

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
I suppose you have that reassurance Hulkein, I know many other people, those more liberal and vocal in their politics do not, however. Personally I think its another step closer to a Police state. See no evil, Hear no evil.

I agree.. I'm not saying renew it forever, but I think it should be renewed for another 2 years.. We haven't been attacked since 9/11, and I attribute some of that towards this Act. I'm sure I'll feel differently about this act if the war on terror continues to improve and break apart the most radical sects of terrorist..

[StrayRogue]

wtf!? We're agreeing?

[Hulkein]

haha, I thought the same thing

[Galleazzo]

There is nothing about the Patriot Act that would have stopped 9/11.

Besides which come on. Nearest big harbor to me is Boston. There are shitloads of LNG tanks right on the harbor. Load a frigging sailboat with a ton of C-4, park right next to the tanks, blow them to kingdom come, and then you have a frigging ball of flame a mile wide next to downtown Boston.

Patriot Act couldn't stop that either.

[Hulkein]

Yeah but who does that kill? Like 10 people tops? Patriot Act is there to make sure no terrorist is on our soil trying to obtain uranium or spent radioactive materials etc to set of a dirty bomb in a city, etc.

[TheEschaton]

The Patriot Act is a frickin' joke. Be thankful they haven't passed the so-called "Son of Patriot" act, cause that one is absolutely ridiculous.

In Boston, they had a foreign resident registration. People who had been in the country less than 6 months, had to register their identities at the INS. Mind you, these were legal aliens, and only 7 countries or so were targetted for this registration. My Lebanese friend was almost deported because he was here on a student visa, which was about to expire because he was graduating from a master's program, but not yet registered for his doctorate.

All thanks to Patriot.

"People who are willing to give up freedom for security deserve neither."
~Ben Franklin

-TheE-

[TheEschaton]

As for getting around Patriot, the ports in this country are so unmonitored it is ridiculous. A person could literally ship a nuclear bomb into a port via freighter, and it only has a 1 in 100 chance of being inspected. They can then offload it into an 18 wheeler, and take it wherever the hell they please!

-TheEschaton-

[Mint]

Originally posted by TheEschaton

"People who are willing to give up freedom for security deserve neither."
~Ben Franklin

-TheE-

I am a fan of Franklin however they hadnt the weapons of mass destruction we have now so quoting him in this regard might be misleading. That said, I agree with the rest of your post. Patriot Act is meant to hamstring our rights.

edited to add: I usually avoid political discussions like the plague so dont skewer me too badly please


[Edited on 2-5-2004 by Mint]

[TheEschaton]

Being I am a veteran of the left, I won't.

By the way, I should preface the previous with this statement: I am NOT a terrorist.

Being brown with straight hair = probably being watched right now. Went to Logan the other day to pick up a friend coming in. Was waiting for half an hour cause the flight was late, I swear I had a tactical SWAT team closing in on me. Everyone, and I mean frickin' everyone, was watching me.

Good thing my friend was white. Had another desi walked off that plane and joined me, I would of been in deep shit, I fear.

-TheE-

[Galleazzo]

Originally posted by Hulkein
Yeah but who does that kill? Like 10 people tops? Patriot Act is there to make sure no terrorist is on our soil trying to obtain uranium or spent radioactive materials etc to set of a dirty bomb in a city, etc.
Someone did a study on it a bunch of years ago. There are what, something like 15 LNG tanks in Chelsea, and you could put a hockey rink in each one of them? There are about half a million people working in downtown Boston right now. That ball of flame would engulf the whole downtown. 10 people, fuck that. If it was as little as 10,000 it'd be a miracle.

And fucking Ashcroft's fascist play toy wouldn't do shit.

[Lord Whirlin]

Ohh god, please lets not discuss politics. I'm such a liberal hippie that no good can come from it... and worst of all, I'm stubborn as all hell...
However... since I can't completely separate myself from the conversation, let me say this. People mistake the patriot act for the critics of it that they have read... The act itself deals more with internet fraud and other things that had not been covered before. It does not take away the necessity of a warrant to search houses, but it does make them easier to obtain. I agree that the Patriot act in it's current form is not in the best interests of the American public, but there are some good things in there. And Bush is a god damn pawn surrounded by oppressive imperialist bastards.

Ok, I'm done. I'm kinda tempted to start a 'talking politics' thread

[Tendarian]

Was waiting for half an hour cause the flight was late, I swear I had a tactical SWAT team closing in on me. Everyone, and I mean frickin' everyone, was watching me.

Paranoia is a destroya :)

I dont like the Patriot Act either so im hoping it doesnt get renewed. I just hate agreeing with the aclu on things.

[Mint]

Oh, and I work for a transit agency and yes you ARE being watched TheEschaton:

You can see the whole thing at: http://www.apta.com/services/security/threat_level.cfm

Federal Transit Administration Transit Threat Level Response Recommendation

FTA Policy Statement

The Federal Transit Administration (FTA) has developed a National Transit Response Model that supports the initiatives of the Office of Homeland Security (OHS). The plan is a guide for the FTA's response to the OHS Homeland Security Advisory System (HSAS). The Transit Threat Level Response Recommendation, in turn, provides guidance to the U.S. transit industry in responding to the various OHS threat level designations.

Blah blah blah…then:

Measure 64. Arrange for and deploy plainclothes law enforcement or security officials for surveillance in terminals, stations and other location as appropriate.

But I cant talk anymore about this because of:

Measure 7. Develop terrorist and security awareness and provide information and educate employees on security standards and procedures. Caution employees not to talk with outsiders concerning their facility or related issues.

Heh, okay no more posts in any political threads.

edited to remove an unnecessary word.


[Edited on 2-5-2004 by Mint]

[Galleazzo]

Especially if you're at work, because your computer can be monitored and you could go to prison for discussing transit security measures out of bounds. Cause of the Patriot Act.

We KNOW what happens when we give the stormtroopers too much power. They use it against the "terrorists," then they declare their enemies "terrorists," then they just make sure anyone who backtalks them are "terrorists." Remember COINTELPRO? Nixon's enemy list?

[Mint]

Originally posted by Galleazzo
Especially if you're at work, because your computer can be monitored and you could go to prison for discussing transit security measures out of bounds. Cause of the Patriot Act.

We KNOW what happens when we give the stormtroopers too much power. They use it against the "terrorists," then they declare their enemies "terrorists," then they just make sure anyone who backtalks them are "terrorists." Remember COINTELPRO? Nixon's enemy list?

Um bus driver here buddy. Ahem, I mean, coach operator

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by TheEschaton
As for getting around Patriot, the ports in this country are so unmonitored it is ridiculous. A person could literally ship a nuclear bomb into a port via freighter, and it only has a 1 in 100 chance of being inspected. They can then offload it into an 18 wheeler, and take it wherever the hell they please!

-TheEschaton-

Yes, and the Patriot act isn't there to inspect ports, it has nothing to do with it. It's there to intercept the calls or emails discussing who is going to pick up the cargo on the 18 wheeler and drive it around.

Use your head kthx, Patriot Act isnt monitor ports act.

Oh, and your sig cartoon is gay, it's the epitome of a liberal taking issues to their extreme using half truths.

[Edited on 2-6-2004 by Hulkein]

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Galleazzo
That ball of flame would engulf the whole downtown.

No it wouldn't. It'd be impossible to set off an explosion that big without getting caught. You said one ship, not the entire port. They'd get caught unless your Boston port authority is that sad, in which no Act would save you.



And fucking Ashcroft's fascist play toy wouldn't do shit.

Congress passed it, it's not just Ashcroft's toy.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by TheEschaton
Being I am a veteran of the left, I won't.

By the way, I should preface the previous with this statement: I am NOT a terrorist.

Being brown with straight hair = probably being watched right now. Went to Logan the other day to pick up a friend coming in. Was waiting for half an hour cause the flight was late, I swear I had a tactical SWAT team closing in on me. Everyone, and I mean frickin' everyone, was watching me.

Good thing my friend was white. Had another desi walked off that plane and joined me, I would of been in deep shit, I fear.

-TheE-

I'm glad the swat team was on you.. Fact is profiling works and they should be paying more closer attention to the stereotypical terrorist appearence. As long as they didn't apprehend you or infringe on your rights, then I am absolutely happy to hear they are doing their job.

BTW, I've been in an airport standing around and they watch me closely also, they do it to everyone.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Pierat
Library records should be public. Ill tell you why too. Its called going to your local "public library". If you want privacy, you can pay for it, get 20 bucks and buy the book at barnes and nobles. Things that are done in public, are not private. The FBI is not going into my home and checking what books I have. Nor are they (I hope not and if they are then ill sign it) reading my credit card statements to see what im buying. Mind you buying explosives should be "checked out" but thats at the purschasing end, not via my personal credit records. Furthemore, cash is king, you want privacy get to know and love those fluffy green bills

I dont live in the States but from what I have heard of the Patriot Act, its scurry! I wouldnt wanna live under that Act any more than I would have wanted to live under Sadam Hussains rule. Same shit, different name.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Nieninque
I wouldnt wanna live under that Act any more than I would have wanted to live under Sadam Hussains rule. Same shit, different name.

You are a moron. Not because you disagree with the Act, but because of your analogy. It's just pitiful.

[Zakre]

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