Newbie rogue

[gunmetal]

Hey everyone. New rogue on the chopping block. Dark elf archer/picker, shooting for brig w/ high dodge and a few spells. She's tons of fun. Here's how we're looking so far:



Stats: Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 82 (16) ... 82 (16)
Constitution (CON): 62 (1) ... 62 (1)
Dexterity (DEX): 92 (31) ... 92 (31)
Agility (AGL): 93 (26) ... 93 (26)
Discipline (DIS): 72 (1) ... 72 (1)
Aura (AUR): 71 (20) ... 71 (20)
Logic (LOG): 53 (1) ... 53 (1)
Intuition (INT): 63 (11) ... 63 (11)
Wisdom (WIS): 61 (10) ... 61 (10)
Influence (INF): 33 (-13) ... 33 (-13)


(at level 6), your base skill bonuses, ranks and goals are:
Skill Name | Actual Actual
| Bonus Ranks Goals
Armor Use..........................| 58 12 12
Combat Maneuvers...................| 30 6 6
Ranged Weapons.....................| 66 14 14
Ambush.............................| 66 14 14
Physical Fitness...................| 25 5 5
Dodging............................| 70 15 15
Arcane Symbols.....................| 5 1 1
Magic Item Use.....................| 5 1 1
Harness Power......................| 5 1 1
Disarming Traps....................| 90 20 20
Picking Locks......................| 90 20 20
Stalking and Hiding................| 66 14 14
Perception.........................| 66 14 14
Climbing...........................| 30 6 6
Swimming...........................| 25 5 5


XXXXX, your Combat Maneuver training is as follows:

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Shadow Mastery smastery 1
Surge of Strength surge 1

3x: Picking skills/Dodging. Just started ramping up dodging after making the mistake of trying to go 3x in hiding/ambush, too. Wrecked my TPs, so I'm doing a little damage control right now.

1.5/2x: Armor ('til brig?)/Perc/Hide/Ambush/Ranged.

1x: Climb/Swim ('til 50 ranks?), trying for CM/PT.

Cherrypicking: PT/CM/misc magic.

Currently trying to save up MTPs to grab ED. Joined CoL; Voln's really tempting, but I dunno if I could spare the PTPs for Brawling.

My leedle roguelet's currently geared up in critter drops (hob double leather FTW) and the bow they spit her out of chargen with. Holding her own in the cliffs with leapers/lesser orcs, and if she's spelled up she can dance with bigger orcs/mants/thraks without coming out a corpse. Pretty happy with how she's turning out, but really don't want to bite myself in the ass later on, so any tips on building her would be appreciated. I am pretty much a stupid fucking newbie.

Thanks to everyone on this forum, BTW. Diving back through old threads (the "discuss your rogue" thread in particular) was way more helpful than half of the rogue guides and crap I was reading elsewhere.

[Izzy]

My only suggestions would be to drop agi/dex a bit and bump up your logic, for exp help. Agi/dex will grow quickly. Also, don't stop at brig. If not fullplate, at the very least get into MBP

[NocturnalRob]

basically what Izzy said. I would seriously consider dropping agi and dex about 15-20 each, depending on whether or not you're looking to run this character to cap.

if no, or you're willing to rock a fixstats later, then by all means go ahead

[Gan]

My rogue is an archer/picker. I'll post you some stats at level 89 rogue for you to look over tonight. I have kept mine in brig and do just fine in OTF considering my hunting style is sniping from hiding. I have MnE up to 410 (will eventually work up 414 and beyond once I cap).

If you plan on casting spells like 410 while hunting then stay in brig. Once you move to heavier armor classes the hindrance will make it a waste of time trying to cast offensive spells.

Stay CoL. Voln is not as good mechanics wise unless its for RP, for a rogue IMO. I have no opinion on Sunfist.

If you run shy on points, you can even shave your picking/disarm down to 2.75x.

Your bread and butter will be one shot kills. So keep up the ambush training. And never cheat out your perception points. Thats very importan to keep up for DS/AS and aiming from the open.

Also start fletching. Its extra TP's and eventually will let you make your own 5x arrows. Add a 5x bow and you're rolling with a 10x striking capability.

If you're staying in brig - find a set of Forest Green Brig or another set of heavily or better crit padded brig to wear.

As soon as you level to 15 - you also need to start working on guild skills (Stunman, Gambits, LM for picking, Sweep...) That will also net you more TP's and free up CM points for maxing out in Smastery. You'll also want combat mobility so if you ever get knocked on your ass it will stand you back up with the next physical attack.

Plan on getting more ranks in harness power for CoL and your eventual magical skills. Also continue to add to MIU and AS.

Overall you're going the right direction from my perspective.

My 2 cents.

[Moist Happenings]

I would consider bumping up your CM ranks to 2x if you can. Not yet, but maybe between 25-50 just for a bit of extra power. At the expense of dodging, I would think. By 25 you should have no trouble sniping from hiding with archery if that's what your goal is, and the extra CM ranks can come in handy later on down the line when you simply can't stay in hiding 100% of the time. At 50 of course you'd want to start working your dodge back up to 2x from basically 1x which it's dropped to, but by then you'll have the extra TPs to work with so that won't be too much of a problem.

Edit to add: That's just my personal opinion. There's absolutely nothing wrong with your training currently. I just find the little extra AS/DS boost as well as extra cman points is nice at early levels when things aren't so treacherous. It's by no means make or break.

[gunmetal]

Whoa. Thanks for the quick responses, guys, and thank you so much for the tips. I'm sure I'll have a million more questions when I hit 15 and guild up. :)

And thanks, Gan -- look forward to seein' your stats later. Do you have any hunting logs you wouldn't mind sharing? As it stands right now, I can throw my rogue in with lesser/greater orcs (1 and 2 levels above her) without any spell-ups and survive if I stance dance like a champ.

but man does it hurt if they hit me

[CaptContagious]

Whoa. Thanks for the quick responses, guys, and thank you so much for the tips. I'm sure I'll have a million more questions when I hit 15 and guild up. :)

And thanks, Gan -- look forward to seein' your stats later. Do you have any hunting logs you wouldn't mind sharing? As it stands right now, I can throw my rogue in with lesser/greater orcs (1 and 2 levels above her) without any spell-ups and survive if I stance dance like a champ.

but man does it hurt if they hit me

and it always will... hence the importance of dodge and high dex/agi as you progress towards cap. But, it wont be long til you really wont have to worry about that. 1 shotting left eyes from the shadows is what makes a rogue archer so great.

[DaCapn]

Definitely work past rigid leather armors. In MBP you can take about a 175 endroll for a minor and about 10 points of damage. I think you can reduce your picking to as low as 2x if you need the extra points early on to train in armor or cmans. Getting into your final armor ASAP is a decision that I don't regret (or you could just get into chain shirt and fixskills into MBP later at the expense of whatever). Also think about when/if you want to take up the MnE lores. I had them by 35 but that was before they were made less useful with 2x picking. Currently, I'd probably hold off on lores until 50's.

Mastering surge of strength should be first priority with your CM points in my opinion. Dirtkick is a good cman to take up later (cheap to use and learn, is stance independent, has a short RT, and goes the extra mile in hiding you that smastery can't). It was basically mandatory in Pinefar with all of the perceptive creatures.

I play mostly sword and board but I did have an archer for a while. I didn't care for it. Juggling the ammo sort of annoyed me.

[Gan]

Ganalon (at level 89), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 130 35
Combat Maneuvers...................| 221 121
Ranged Weapons.....................| 282 182
Ambush.............................| 236 136
Physical Fitness...................| 190 90
Dodging............................| 280 180
Arcane Symbols.....................| 50 10
Magic Item Use.....................| 66 14
Harness Power......................| 120 30
Disarming Traps....................| 341 241
Picking Locks......................| 341 241
Stalking and Hiding................| 340 240
Perception.........................| 329 229
Climbing...........................| 130 35
Swimming...........................| 130 35
Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 10
_______________________________________
Ganalon, your Combat Maneuver training is as follows:
Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Shadow Mastery smastery 5
Dirtkick dirtkick 3
Specialization I wspec1 3
Combat Mobility mobility 2
Surge of Strength surge 5
Cutthroat cutthroat 3
Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 8
________________________________________
>gld
You are Guild Master of the Rogue Guild.
You currently have 266 ranks out of a possible 372 for your training.
You are a Master of Sweep.

You have 9 ranks in the Subdue skill.

You are a Master of Stun Maneuvers.

You have 35 ranks in the Lock Mastery skill.

You have 39 ranks in the Cheap Shot skill.

You are a Master of Rogue Gambits.

__________________________________
Name: Ganalon O'Grady Race: Human Profession: Rogue (not shown)
Gender: Male Age: 44 Expr: 6449657 Level: 89
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 83 (21) ... 83 (21)
Constitution (CON): 73 (11) ... 49 (0)
Dexterity (DEX): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Agility (AGI): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Discipline (DIS): 95 (22) ... 95 (22)
Aura (AUR): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Logic (LOG): 95 (27) ... 95 (27)
Intuition (INT): 86 (23) ... 86 (23)
Wisdom (WIS): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Influence (INF): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Mana: 100
(Stats set for max TP's)

[gunmetal]

Awesome. Thank you again, Gan. Question: crossbows, yes or no? They are a pain in the ass to use compared to standard bows, but I could probably get used to it if I had to.

And I brought Dex/Agi down to 70 each and boosted Logic, Intuition, and Influence. I am already noticing a difference.

[SolitareConfinement]

longbows are the way to go every time...so much of a hassle really to simply hunt with a crossbow

[Gan]

Awesome. Thank you again, Gan. Question: crossbows, yes or no? They are a pain in the ass to use compared to standard bows, but I could probably get used to it if I had to.

And I brought Dex/Agi down to 70 each and boosted Logic, Intuition, and Influence. I am already noticing a difference.

Crossbows in melee combat will get you killed. First you have the kneeling bonus that will sucker you into kneeling while fighting (bad idea). Second you get hard RT for loading AND firing. Not to mention loading will sometimes pull you out of hiding.

Longbows have the best DF; however, they also have the worst RT. Since you're not needing a huge DF if the eye is hit as your primary target (Dont forget to set your AIM to right or left eye) you should be using a compound or short bow for the lesser RT.

[Gan]

Do you have any hunting logs you wouldn't mind sharing?

Here's a short clip from my hunt this morning.

>sneak nw
[Old Ta'Faendryl, West]
The ground here is uneven, liberally littered with stones and blocks that have fallen from the surrounding building walls. Flaked off bits and pieces of granite have been ground into the dirt by the long term pressure of passing hooves, feet and paws. You also see an Ithzir initiate.
Obvious paths: northeast, southeast, west
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>
Your disk arrives, following you dutifully.
>fre ini
You are now in an offensive stance.
>
You remove a black banded faewood arrow from in your hooded cloak.
>
You nock a black banded faewood arrow in your elm composite bow.
You fire an arrow at an Ithzir initiate!
AS: +452 vs DS: +315 with AvD: +34 + d100 roll: +28 = +199
... and hit for 47 points of damage!
Attack punctures the eye and connects with something really vital!
The Ithzir initiate falls to the ground in a crumpled heap.
The very powerful look leaves an Ithzir initiate.
The white light leaves an Ithzir initiate.
The opalescent aura fades from around an Ithzir initiate.
The deep blue glow leaves an Ithzir initiate.
The brilliant aura fades away from an Ithzir initiate.
An Ithzir initiate seems slightly different.
The dim aura fades from around an Ithzir initiate.
An Ithzir initiate appears less confident.
The arrow sticks in an Ithzir initiate's right eye!
Roundtime: 6 sec.
>
An Ithzir initiate strides in, his hands clasped before him.
loot
>You come out of hiding.
You search the Ithzir initiate.
He had a black banded faewood arrow, a twisted crystal-tipped staff.
You discard the initiate's remaining useless equipment.
He didn't carry any silver.
He had a pink rhodochrosite stone on him!
He had nothing else of value.
An Ithzir initiate's body shimmers slightly, then fades from view like a dissipating phantom.
>fre ini
You are now in an offensive stance.
>
You remove a single arrow from a bundle of arrows.
>
You nock a black banded faewood arrow in your elm composite bow.
You fire an arrow at an Ithzir initiate!
AS: +452 vs DS: +431 with AvD: +34 + d100 roll: +39 = +94
A clean miss.
The arrow streaks off into the distance!
Roundtime: 5 sec.
>loo
[Old Ta'Faendryl, West]
The ground here is uneven, liberally littered with stones and blocks that have fallen from the surrounding building walls. Flaked off bits and pieces of granite have been ground into the dirt by the long term pressure of passing hooves, feet and paws. You also see a pink rhodochrosite stone, a twisted crystal-tipped staff, a black banded faewood arrow, an Ithzir initiate and the Ganalon disk.
Obvious paths: northeast, southeast, west
>
An Ithzir initiate closes his eyes while uttering a hollow, alien chant.
>410
Voodoo '410' to 'PREPARE 410', 'CAST'.
You trace a simple rune while intoning the mystical phrase for Elemental Wave...
Your spell is ready.
>
You gesture.
A wave of dark ethereal ripples moves outward from you.
An Ithzir initiate is buffeted by the dark ethereal waves and is knocked to the ground.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
>fre ini
You are now in an offensive stance.
>
You remove a single arrow from a bundle of arrows.
>
You nock a black banded faewood arrow in your elm composite bow.
You fire an arrow at an Ithzir initiate!
AS: +452 vs DS: +373 with AvD: +34 + d100 roll: +61 = +174
... and hit for 39 points of damage!
Attack punctures the eye and connects with something really vital!
The Ithzir initiate vainly struggles to rise, then goes still.
The very powerful look leaves an Ithzir initiate.
The white light leaves an Ithzir initiate.
The opalescent aura fades from around an Ithzir initiate.
The deep blue glow leaves an Ithzir initiate.
The brilliant aura fades away from an Ithzir initiate.
An Ithzir initiate seems slightly different.
The dim aura fades from around an Ithzir initiate.
The light blue glow leaves an Ithzir initiate.
The powerful look leaves an Ithzir initiate.
An Ithzir initiate appears less confident.
The wall of force disappears from around an Ithzir initiate.
The guiding force leaves an Ithzir initiate.
The arrow sticks in an Ithzir initiate's right eye!
Roundtime: 6 sec.
>
An Ithzir seer walks in, calmly surveying the surroundings.
>loot
You come out of hiding.
You search the Ithzir initiate.
He had a black banded faewood arrow, a twisted crystal-tipped staff.
You discard the initiate's remaining useless equipment.
He didn't carry any silver.
He had nothing of interest.
An Ithzir initiate's body shimmers slightly, then fades from view like a dissipating phantom.
>hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
>fre seer
You are now in an offensive stance.
>
You remove a single arrow from a bundle of arrows.
>
You nock a black banded faewood arrow in your elm composite bow.
You fire an arrow at an Ithzir seer!
AS: +452 vs DS: +276 with AvD: +34 + d100 roll: +38 = +248
... and hit for 61 points of damage!
Attack punctures the eye and connects with something really vital!
The Ithzir seer falls to the ground in a crumpled heap.
The opalescent aura fades from around an Ithzir seer.
The deep blue glow leaves an Ithzir seer.
The Ithzir seer no longer bristles with energy.
The dim aura fades from around an Ithzir seer.
The powerful look leaves an Ithzir seer.
An Ithzir seer seems to lose an aura of confidence.
The light blue glow leaves an Ithzir seer.
The guiding force leaves an Ithzir seer.
The arrow sticks in an Ithzir seer's right eye!
Roundtime: 6 sec.
>loot
You come out of hiding.
You search the Ithzir seer.
He had a black banded faewood arrow, a twisted crystal-tipped staff.
You discard the seer's remaining useless equipment.
He didn't carry any silver.
He had nothing else of value.
An Ithzir seer's body shimmers slightly, then fades from view like a dissipating phantom.
>gath
You gather 3 arrows into a bundle.
>
You put a bundle of arrows in your hooded cloak.
>
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.

[Widgets]

Awesome. Thank you again, Gan. Question: crossbows, yes or no? They are a pain in the ass to use compared to standard bows, but I could probably get used to it if I had to.

And I brought Dex/Agi down to 70 each and boosted Logic, Intuition, and Influence. I am already noticing a difference.

Crossbows are not worth it anymore to use as a primary weapon unless you have one with special properties.

Not only that, but crossbows do NOT yield you the enchant DS bonus as bows would otherwise do. Meaning, BOW enchant directly goes to your DS, where as crossbows enchant do not.

Dark Elf's make excellent archers due to the high dex bonus, but now a days that doesn't matter so much with enchancives and everything else floating around. Also, if you don't intend on going the magical route, I suggest Mastering Fletching which takes around 2-3 days if you continuously do it.

Get yourself a 5x bow, and you've got a 10x weapon with master fletched faewood arrows. But remember, the higher enchant of a bow, the more DS you gain if you are a stickler for that sort of thing.

[Eylanthriel]

A lot of useful information that I am also thankful for. I am currently sword and board but I have been thinking about ranged as of late. My biggest concern is whether or not I will enjoy it from a player's standpoint but that's more personal than anything.

What scripts do you guys use for combat/gathering/etc?

[Widgets]

A lot of useful information that I am also thankful for. I am currently sword and board but I have been thinking about ranged as of late. My biggest concern is whether or not I will enjoy it from a player's standpoint but that's more personal than anything.

What scripts do you guys use for combat/gathering/etc?

I personally don't script hunt...Takes out any thought process this game has left.

However, when hunting I use macro's...More importantly the following..

F2: stance off\r
F1: get 1 arrow from my quiver\r fire\r
F4: stance def\r loot\r stow right\r
F3: gather arrow\r put arrow in arrow in my quiver\r

I have set the loot to right hand auto function on so anytime I do loot, shit goes in it right away then it stows it to my set container.

Pretty simple really, and scripts are easy to make but I find macro's get the job done just as well...But you could always macro a script too..

[Gan]

A lot of useful information that I am also thankful for. I am currently sword and board but I have been thinking about ranged as of late. My biggest concern is whether or not I will enjoy it from a player's standpoint but that's more personal than anything.

What scripts do you guys use for combat/gathering/etc?

I use alias in psinet.

one for firing

one for gathering/rehiding

ALIAS FRE=stance off\rtake 1 arrow from my cloak\rfire \?
ALIAS GATH=gather arrow\rput arrow in my cloak\rhide\r

[Eylanthriel]

I personally don't script hunt...Takes out any thought process this game has left.



I meant macros but said scripts but thanks for the information. I just need to find a bow and then fixskill. It should be a fun change.

[Widgets]

I meant macros but said scripts but thanks for the information. I just need to find a bow and then fixskill. It should be a fun change.

Good luck. Plenty of excellent Ranged Users here that make good resources, myself included.

[gunmetal]

Sorry for the thread necromancy -- things have been hectic and I've not been around. Thanks, Gan and Widgets, for your input. You are a couple of goddamn rockstars.

Presently at level 11. Been alternating fletching with hunting and CoL/AG quests. Sitting at something like 450 fletching right now, picked up my first spell a level or two ago and will probably have my next at either level 13/14.

Toned down from 3x dodging to 2x because I'd rather get in brig ASAP. I can make up the dodging, if necessary, when I'm not 2x'ing my friggin' armor.

I'll post my skills again on the last day of my instant migration or when I guild up, whichever comes first. But man, this build has been nothing but a blast.

Two dumb questions:
Is it possible to master CoL by 15? My little rogue is a cash cow and it's not like I can't buy the majority of the skins. Is it even in my best interest to try?
At 3x picking, when can I hope to start picking my own boxes reliably? When is it safe to pick for others? I don't know the etiquette and I don't want to blow a bunch of dudes up.



What scripts do you guys use for combat/gathering/etc?


I use alias in psinet.

one for firing

one for gathering/rehiding

This is exactly what I do. Works like a charm. psinet ftw

[DaCapn]

Two dumb questions:
Is it possible to master CoL by 15? My little rogue is a cash cow and it's not like I can't buy the majority of the skins. Is it even in my best interest to try?
At 3x picking, when can I hope to start picking my own boxes reliably? When is it safe to pick for others? I don't know the etiquette and I don't want to blow a bunch of dudes up.


1) I think you have to be at least 5 to join a society (someone correct me if I'm wrong). maybe it's 3. I've mastered CoL at level 7 before. As far as Solhaven is concerned, the hardest skin (and creature) is orc ears (dark orcs are 12). If you have some other means to collect the materials, it shouldn't take but 3 days.

EDIT: The signs will be short duration and you might not have high enough spirit to be able to use sign of swords and shields as you'd like, but it's definitely worth it to be able to have this stuff early on (especially considering the small investment that it is), even if just for sign of thought and staunching. You may want to wait until after your free 30-day migration period (or not if you want to boost skinning for it). I think that and your weekly 3x time is the only timing consideration for CoL, really.

2) You could start picking reliably right now. Plug your numbers into the Tsoran spreadsheet to find out your max lock (should at least give a close number barring unusual room conditions). Lock difficulty is really area/creature dependent so you can't throw out a level estimate very accurately without knowing where you are. Undead casting monsters have tougher boxes, things like giants have easier ones, etc. I don't think there's a problem with asking people where their boxes are from before picking. Also, as an archer, I'm sure you're at least 2x perception. You can see way over your disarm range with 2x perception.

Oh yeah, and you should probably wait until about level 20 to start working on guild skills (if you didn't already know). The training points required to achieve the next rank in a skill will be higher if your guild ranks are close to your max guild ranks. It's not TOO difficult to bang out that extra task or two to make up the difference but if you spend all of your training on the heels of your max ranks you'll end up doing hundreds more tasks than you need to. Some people probably feel differently about this but it's definitely good information to have.

[gunmetal]

I joined CoL at 4. The first few quests were a pain in the ass, but now it's a whole lot of popping hobs for arm greaves, which takes all of ten minutes. If Solhaven caps at dark orcs then fucking awesome.

And thanks for the tip about the spreadsheet. I'd read somewhere or other that it was outdated, but it's good to know it has some use.

Now if only goddamn fletching would move. :grr:

[DaCapn]

The spreadsheet is reasonably accurate for picking. I think it is outdated but it has my max lock within like 5% as far as I can recall.

In Solhaven, all non-skins can be bought off the shelf there or in the Landing except for the flowing white robes (sea nymphs in the Landing); arm greaves, leg greaves, reinforced shields, etc.

Crystal amulets and silver wands are usually catch as catch can. I have just stocked up on those if I am going to have a character that I want to master in CoL.