Training Feedback?

[DaCapn]

Any feedback on my hypothetical Giantman bard would be appreciated. Stats are placed for growth but, in all likelihood I won't ever level this character beyond 30. It looked to me like this might yield a decent pure with some polearming to back it up. I'd plan on using halberd or something early on then jeddart-axe around 30 since I can reach minumum RT with it. Maybe lance later if I can get over how ridiculous that would look. I haven't looked at any bard documentation until 2 days ago so I'm quite new to bards.

Stat 0th 30th 100th
STR 49 70 100
CON 50 65 90
DEX 68 79 100
AGL 77 84 100
DIS 82 88 100
AUR 62 77 100
LOG 88 92 100
INT 62 71 89
WIS 73 82 100
INF 49 70 100

I was thinking about lowering INT further to boost one of the other stats to reach 100 sooner. Or am I forgetting something that it's particularly useful for? Of course AGIDEX could lose a few points to get a full -3 RT

Training will be something like this:

Armor Use 1x (0-9); 1.5x (10-36); 50 total
Polearms 2x; 202 total
Physical 1x (0-20); 23 total
Climbing 1x (0-19); 20 total
Swimming 1x (51-70); 20 total
Harness 1x; 101 total
MentalMC 1x (0-23); 24 total

MnE Spells 0.2x (0-29); 0.75x (30-101); 57 total (up to 67 post-cap)
Bard Spells 1x; 101 total (up to 135 post-cap)

Air Lore 1x; 101 total
Manipulation 0.75x; 75 total
Telepathy 0.25x; 26 total

There's a few points left over here and there late-game which might go into armor or just hastening MnE training. I see people recommending 1x in PT. Is that just for builds that train in cmans or is it meant as a suggestion to train 1x in PT until max health? Also, will the AS be too low without the CM training? I'd really have to re-think everything to include it.

[Xaerve]

Looks pretty good. I'm a big fan of tanking manip lore to get the 1030 benefits early on.

However, with no CM training your AS will take fairly significant hit, as you indicated. 1x PT (Physical Fitness) is recommended because it reduces man. attacks, hard RT from screeches, etc. That being said, I'd say for a bard that getting .5x is fine, after the initial # for max HP. You're going to be in heavier armor, and that helps a ton.

In general it seems to me that you're wanting too much lore to be able to maintain a swinging bard.

[DaCapn]

Well, If I don't 1x in CM, I'm short 50 AS by cap (So at level 30, I'm only short 15). I was imagining that being a giant (raw strength bonus) and having some of those lores would make up for it a bit (more flares for sonic weapon, more RT reduction, more AS from spells).

Also, with the stray points, it looks like I might be able to get close to 1x PT.

Thanks for the feedback.

[Gibreficul]

My bard: NOT A PURE, but TOTALLY AWESOME....

(at level 39), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 141 41
Shield Use.........................| 141 41
Combat Maneuvers...................| 120 30
Edged Weapons......................| 182 82
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 25 5
Physical Fitness...................| 141 41
Dodging............................| 141 41
Harness Power......................| 138 39
Elemental Mana Control.............| 90 20
Mental Mana Control................| 90 20
Elemental Lore - Air...............| 138 39
Mental Lore - Manipulation.........| 70 15
Mental Lore - Telepathy............| 54 11
Climbing...........................| 90 20
Swimming...........................| 90 20

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 21

Spell Lists
Bard...............................| 20
Training Points: 52 Phy 0 Mnt (164 Phy converted to Mnt)

================================================== ====

He's totally a utility character, that's why both elemental and mental mana controls... now that he's got 20 ranks in each, he's going to work on getting MOC and CM ranks to 1x. I don't know how that fares as "training feedback" but it's what I can give you. As for mental lores, he's done with manipulation lore, as telepathy lore is far better for a physically built bard.

MY BARD ROCKS...


GIBREFICUL

[Twitch]

Pretty close to what Gib's got going on but a nice pic of what it looks like later on:

(at level 77), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 130 35
Shield Use.........................| 179 79
Combat Maneuvers...................| 179 79
Edged Weapons......................| 258 158
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 155 55
Physical Fitness...................| 179 79
Dodging............................| 141 41
Harness Power......................| 177 77
Mental Mana Control................| 102 24
Elemental Lore - Air...............| 179 79
Mental Lore - Manipulation.........| 138 39
Mental Lore - Telepathy............| 130 35
Perception.........................| 140 40
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 136 38

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 30

Spell Lists
Bard...............................| 49

There's no question about the ferocity of this bard, I had him surviving ambushes and killing executioners in Nelemar at 55, Bowels soloing at 71, Rift at 66 NO PROBLEM, killing war griffens in OTF (at whatever age is possible to get in I forget). This is a semi with ALL options to hunt. Sweep, sbash, mstrike, disrupt, man you cant ask for more, Fun stuff!

[petroglyph]

Do you find sbash effective with only 1x shield training? I've been pondering switching from 1x shield/1x dodge to 1.5x shield/.5x dodge to enhance it some, but then, I don't have the full 5 ransk of sbash yet.

[Gibreficul]

Kudos Twitch. A bard that knows what a bard is, and can be. Finally...

Gibreficul just saw his bard's future revealed. :thanx:

[Twitch]

Do you find sbash effective with only 1x shield training? I've been pondering switching from 1x shield/1x dodge to 1.5x shield/.5x dodge to enhance it some, but then, I don't have the full 5 ransk of sbash yet. - Petroglyph

Actually, I use sbash to help younger folks, oddly, at my age it doesnt really have much purpose other than to piss off like level archers and sorcerers who think they'll shoot your eye out or nightmare you. 1 or 2 bashes on the head and theyre done.

That aside, the reality is, I only have 4 ranks in sbash, 1x in CM doesnt afford the points for the 5th rank yet and I doubt since I overhunt sbashing a greater elemental with 4 ranks when tonis and mstrike is so much more effective in the sense you want to just kill these bastards before they ewave your face in the dirt.

I've been contemplating getting the focus cman for the TD instead of the sbash and adding it to my CoL signs macro, its refreshable every 3 minutes so I could just highlight the string, but even if I dont the first 3 minutes of my hunt will have the added 10 to TD.

[Twitch]

Oh and Gib, you might want to go the 60/42 manip/telepathy route for that mega kick with disruption. Admittedly I dont use it whole bunch, but in instances when say all them damn faceless beings show up a quick open cast or 2 at that shuts them bastards down quick. Its great for bounties too. Actually Archales mentioned to me about the 60/42 route he says works great for him. I would agree since the added benefits of telepathy beyond that point in terms of song renews/tonis times are nil when using power, as well as the AS benefits which you can certainly make up for with training more in the 400's.

Additionally, at around the ranks in manip I have currently, orbing gems is pretty much easy, as well as not blowing so many is a plus. 60 in manip lore allows you to open cast as though you are carrying a 2 handed instrument, and is just destructive as hell, good fun in TC :P so you need to purify to make up for the fines then - woot!

[DaCapn]

Do you guys find targeted 1030 to be super useful or not so much? I was thinking to take 75 ranks of manipulation lore because then targeted 1030 would be 2-handed instrument effective but if it's "good enough" to have 1-handed instrument 1030 targeted and 2-handed open, I might reduce my goals from 75 manipulation lore.

Edit: of course most of the other gains from the increased telepathy lore seen a bit marginal, except I would get an extra 30 seconds of renewal.

[AMUSED1]

I find it to be extremely useful. I even take a defense hit because of it since I hold a 10x shield and a one-handed instrument in my hand. So I don't get the added DS that an open right-hand and my brawling training would provide. One-handed instrument + enough manip ranks = two-handed instrument.

[Twitch]

DeCapn, looking at your proposed training above it almost looks as though your wanting to be a physical (polearmer) as well as a pure in respects. Im not sure your going to be able to do both without some trouble mainly with training points. Your talking about manip/telepathy lores but have you factored them in? As well as air lore, if your going to swing that thing and use tonis, you need 1x air at least up to 75 ranks for the -rt, also your manip .75 and telepathy .25. It really is a training point issue I dont think you will be able to overcome until years into the bard, if at all.

First what I notice is your climbing and swimming are short. I would say at least 30 in climbing and definitely 40 in swim.

The other question I would bring up is that if your a polearmer, this should suppliment manipulation in regards to the 60/42 path. If you plan on swinging that polearm using tonis (who dont) the only thing you'll really need to be concerned about is swarming critters, and in that case, an open cast is your bet. Keep in mind, Tonis is 35 mana, disruption is 30 open cast, it goes fast, and as a semi myself, I rely on disruption when I either walk into a room full of critters, or need to just cull them out where I am, usually 2 casts thins them out nicely without interfering with my ability to keep up Tonis.

I would say that with the amount of bardsong your aiming for, I see absolutely no reason you would need 75 ranks. Good luck!