Leveling my pure bard (polearm)...

[nocturnix]

OK, did I fuck up or something?

My pure bard just hit his 30 day and i changed his stats from the leveling stats (maxed str, dex, agi) to his pure bard stats which are as follows:

70 STR50 CON50 DEX78 AGI60 DIS89 AUR81 LOG45 INT50 WIS88 INF

Now I went from swinging my lance in 6 seconds to...FUCKING 12 SECONDS!

What the hell am i supposed to do now? What are other pure bards doing? Not using polearms?

[Stretch]

What race?

You get RT reduction from the 9 second base at the following AGI/DEX bonuses:

-1 RT +8
-2 RT +23
-3 RT +38
-4 RT +53

I had my pure bard spec'd for brawling, so he could do the 2-handed instrument thing. Also, your INF / AUR are kind of high.

[nocturnix]

What race?

You get RT reduction from the 9 second base at the following AGI/DEX bonuses:

-1 RT +8
-2 RT +23
-3 RT +38
-4 RT +53

I had my pure bard spec'd for brawling, so he could do the 2-handed instrument thing. Also, your INF / AUR are kind of high.

Thanks for the info.

Dark Elf, and I set his INF AUR higher so he is maxed at 30. For max CS and mana, I dont think I will be playing him past 40 or so, so I set him to max these stats earlier rather than a more balanced growth plan.

Maybe I should switch him to brawling? Although brawling kind of sucks if you cant voln fu and I would imagine leveling to 30 using brawling could become a major pain. But then again so would leveling him to 30 with a 12 second RT.

[nocturnix]

So part of it is that I reduced his str dramatically, and he is a DE so he is encumbered if he has like...anything on him at all. scrolls rings, etc. Still trying to throw some junk out to see what the lowest RT I can get with this lance is. Right now hes swinging it at 9 seconds and isnt encumbered much.

[nocturnix]

Got it back down to seven seconds but I literally cant carry ANYTHING and if i pick up 500 coins im up to like 8 or 9 RT. Ugh, dark elves and low strength I guess.

[Avern]

Try to pick up some white crystals or 509 imbeds. The Strength spell will make a huge difference on what you can carry before becoming encumbered. Also, once your total agility and dexterity bonus goes up 4 more points, you'll be able to swing a lance in 6 seconds.

[Stretch]

A second thought here is that a pure bard that's spec'd to only go to lvl 30 is not going to be much fun to play. You don't get the awesomely overpowered 1030 until ... well ... level 30, and you're not going to have a ton of mana anyway.

The other thing you could do is spec as follows (once your 30 days are up)

2x polearms
1x spellsongs
1x manip (for 1002 / 1004 awesomeness)
1x air lore for double strikes
1x PF
1x armor
1x CM
1x HP

Doesn't leave a ton of points for much else, but that's how I had my bard until lvl 36. I'm probably going to get chewed out for this, but I used a Hammer of Kai as my primary weapon, since I didn't want to have to deal with the 7-8 second lance RT. Since I was mostly hunting things in < chain, it didn't make TOO much of a difference. The 40% - 60% faster swing times helped offset the DF difference, and also meant more air flares.

[nocturnix]

A second thought here is that a pure bard that's spec'd to only go to lvl 30 is not going to be much fun to play. You don't get the awesomely overpowered 1030 until ... well ... level 30, and you're not going to have a ton of mana anyway.

The other thing you could do is spec as follows (once your 30 days are up)

2x polearms
1x spellsongs
1x manip (for 1002 / 1004 awesomeness)
1x air lore for double strikes
1x PF
1x armor
1x CM
1x HP

Doesn't leave a ton of points for much else, but that's how I had my bard until lvl 36. I'm probably going to get chewed out for this, but I used a Hammer of Kai as my primary weapon, since I didn't want to have to deal with the 7-8 second lance RT. Since I was mostly hunting things in < chain, it didn't make TOO much of a difference. The 40% - 60% faster swing times helped offset the DF difference, and also meant more air flares.

Thats pretty much my build, minus the lore training which I will start on soon.

I am not rolling this char for only level 30, Im rolling him to have fun at level 30 but not for max stats at 100. I will probably play him to 40 or 50 if I really like him as a pure.

If I ever actually played a character past that, which I never have, then I could always shell out the 40M for a fixstat.

I also looked at tsorans spreadsheet and see that I will be back to a 6 second RT at level 18. Which is great because Im 15 now. As for strength, I may have to reactivate my second account with my wizard and sorcerer on it to fully buff him whenever I like :) Gotta love pocket wiz and pocket sorc!

[Gibreficul]

Doesn't the term "pure bard" and "pole-arm" contradict? IE, isn't a "pure" a caster? Just a thought.... If you're swinging a weapon for your main attack, you aren't a pure by any means. Maybe try being a "bard" before you try being a pure. You'll have more fun.

Gibreficul has spoken.

[nocturnix]

Doesn't the term "pure bard" and "pole-arm" contradict? IE, isn't a "pure" a caster? Just a thought.... If you're swinging a weapon for your main attack, you aren't a pure by any means. Maybe try being a "bard" before you try being a pure. You'll have more fun.

Gibreficul has spoken.

Maybe you should read the thread and not be a noob. I rolled a pure bard, I placed his stats for growth into pure at 30. Until 30 I will be only a melee bard. But anyone reading this thread who knows what theyre talking about already knows a pure bard isnt a pure bard until 30 because you have very little magical attacks worth using so it is not viable until you get 1130.

[Tilnam]

Do bards need mental mana control for anything? Leveling a new bard myself and am curious about this.

[nocturnix]

I plan to get some Mental MC when I respec at 30 so I can have a mana battery if necessary. Also I believe I read somewhere it helps pure bards with something, but I cant remember at the moment what.

[Seizer]

Do bards need mental mana control for anything? Leveling a new bard myself and am curious about this.

It helps with 1013 and 1040.
>>If no spells are active on the targeted player or creature, the song will try to drain mana from the target. The amount of mana drained per attempt is based on the singer's song knowledge. The amount of mana recovered is based on the singer's song knowledge and Mana Control, Mental skill.<<

Personally only have 25 ranks for my bard so he can drain wands as necessary.

[Elvenlady]

Do bards need mental mana control for anything? Leveling a new bard myself and am curious about this.

My bardess has 30 ranks of MMC at level 76 and it's enough to allow to me use 1013 consistently when hunting. I prefer to "swing" on a living critter and "sing" to the undead because of the drop in AS on sonic weapons. I use a combo of 1013, 1008, renew 1013, 1008 repeat.

[AestheticDeath]

the mana drain should work fine with only 24 ranks of MMC

[nocturnix]

the mana drain should work fine with only 24 ranks of MMC

Dude AD whats with the new avatar. Titty overload! ...does such a thing exist?

[Gibreficul]

Maybe you should read the thread and not be a noob. I rolled a pure bard, I placed his stats for growth into pure at 30. Until 30 I will be only a melee bard. But anyone reading this thread who knows what theyre talking about already knows a pure bard isnt a pure bard until 30 because you have very little magical attacks worth using so it is not viable until you get 1130.

Maybe you should learn your fucking spell #s before you call me a noob. 1130 = EMPATH SPELL. And in plus, 1030 isn't very mana-friendly to use early on even with the mental lore manipulation ranks. So, maybe you should read what I wrote, and take it with a grain of salt. I already tried the level 30 pure bard build. IT DIDN'T WORK. You need a few more levels to maintain your mana supply during a hunt. SO, let me repeat for the IQ challenged... BE A FUCKING BARD BEFORE YOU TRY TO DO A BARD BUILD THAT DOESN'T WORK UNTIL THE HIGHER LEVELS. Understood? I'm not trying to be an asshole, (it comes naturally) i'm really trying to help you with your inability to comprehend... level 30 hunting spells aren't viable to use regularly on a level 30 character. That's consistant for ALL professions in the game from my experience. THe mana supply just isn't there. Now, if you were at level 60, and wanted to be a "pure bard" you might have a chance...

Gibreficul remembers when spells had 5 and 10 second prep RTs.

:punch:

[Emislity]

HA HA, ok seriously. I"m a "pure" bard. Bards need mana to be proficient as a pure bard. I would assume you know that already though so why am I telling you? Bards also have a great deal of "horrible" defense if they don't train in it enough when casting. Why though, would you be a polearm user and think you're a pure bard at the same time? That's not calling yourself a pure bard, that's calling yourself a Semi. A pure bard is indeed someone who "only" sings to their foes or casts if you choose to use the 400's circle. (Not sure why you would when 1030 is about as powerful a spell as you have).

Here's my advice, take it or leave, I give two fucking shits. Get yourself 60 manipulation ranks so that your songs will be stronger. Don't try to be stupid and be a pure bard at 30, that seriously just doesn't make any sense, you won't have enough mana at 30 to do what you need to do to kill unless you under hunt for nearly 30 levels. Your biggest problem will be defense, so if you plan to be a pure bard at level 30 and "try to do it solo" meaning no help from anyone else, you'll fail miserably. Get yourself some shield/dodging ranks for defense.

I'm not telling you to rush out and not try anything new, because I'm a damn good "pure bard," but I had enough intelligence to go at it after level 75 knowing the mana would be an issue. Especially learning that when you renew your songs, they could cost you almost as much as 75 to renew each time. If you don't have enough mana to renew your songs you could easily fry your nerves. (I have done that many times by not paying attention.) I do agree with Gibreficul, be a bard before trying to be a pure bard. Understand though even at 60 you might have a difficult time being a pure bard, unless you're hunting along side someone. Good luck on your training and I hope it all works out for you.

Here are my skills, you can look at them and compare to what you think you'll have when you get older or you can tell me that I'm stupid and then you can go fuck yourself. Like I said, I don't care what your opinion is, but I KNOW how to be a "pure bard." As you can see, I am personally trained to be a pure bard and a purifier. (That makes me the most money.)

Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 50 10
Shield Use.........................| 201 101
Physical Fitness...................| 140 40
Dodging............................| 153 53 (soon to be 70)
Arcane Symbols.....................| 140 40
Magic Item Use.....................| 140 40
Harness Power......................| 279 179
Elemental Mana Control.............| 90 20
Spirit Mana Control................| 74 16
Elemental Lore - Air...............| 155 55
Mental Lore - Manipulation.........| 175 75
Mental Lore - Telepathy............| 105 25
Climbing...........................| 105 25
Swimming...........................| 160 60
Trading............................| 252 152 (soon to be 202)

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 71

Spell Lists
Bard...............................| 100

[nocturnix]

Maybe you should learn your fucking spell #s before you call me a noob. 1130 = EMPATH SPELL. And in plus, 1030 isn't very mana-friendly to use early on even with the mental lore manipulation ranks. So, maybe you should read what I wrote, and take it with a grain of salt. I already tried the level 30 pure bard build. IT DIDN'T WORK. You need a few more levels to maintain your mana supply during a hunt. SO, let me repeat for the IQ challenged... BE A FUCKING BARD BEFORE YOU TRY TO DO A BARD BUILD THAT DOESN'T WORK UNTIL THE HIGHER LEVELS. Understood? I'm not trying to be an asshole, (it comes naturally) i'm really trying to help you with your inability to comprehend... level 30 hunting spells aren't viable to use regularly on a level 30 character. That's consistant for ALL professions in the game from my experience. THe mana supply just isn't there. Now, if you were at level 60, and wanted to be a "pure bard" you might have a chance...

Gibreficul remembers when spells had 5 and 10 second prep RTs.

:punch:

Let me try to clarify because obviously youre a little slow. I rolled this bard to be a pure. His training currently is as a melee(or more specifically semi) bard. At 30-40 I will retrain him pure, this is what most others do as it is not feasible to level as pure until 1030. I will have mana issues until 60 or so, but I have my sorcerer for a mana battery if I need it.

[nocturnix]

HA HA, ok seriously. I"m a "pure" bard. Bards need mana to be proficient as a pure bard. I would assume you know that already though so why am I telling you? Bards also have a great deal of "horrible" defense if they don't train in it enough when casting. Why though, would you be a polearm user and think you're a pure bard at the same time? That's not calling yourself a pure bard, that's calling yourself a Semi. A pure bard is indeed someone who "only" sings to their foes or casts if you choose to use the 400's circle. (Not sure why you would when 1030 is about as powerful a spell as you have).

Here's my advice, take it or leave, I give two fucking shits. Get yourself 60 manipulation ranks so that your songs will be stronger. Don't try to be stupid and be a pure bard at 30, that seriously just doesn't make any sense, you won't have enough mana at 30 to do what you need to do to kill unless you under hunt for nearly 30 levels. Your biggest problem will be defense, so if you plan to be a pure bard at level 30 and "try to do it solo" meaning no help from anyone else, you'll fail miserably. Get yourself some shield/dodging ranks for defense.

I'm not telling you to rush out and not try anything new, because I'm a damn good "pure bard," but I had enough intelligence to go at it after level 75 knowing the mana would be an issue. Especially learning that when you renew your songs, they could cost you almost as much as 75 to renew each time. If you don't have enough mana to renew your songs you could easily fry your nerves. (I have done that many times by not paying attention.) I do agree with Gibreficul, be a bard before trying to be a pure bard. Understand though even at 60 you might have a difficult time being a pure bard, unless you're hunting along side someone. Good luck on your training and I hope it all works out for you.

Here are my skills, you can look at them and compare to what you think you'll have when you get older or you can tell me that I'm stupid and then you can go fuck yourself. Like I said, I don't care what your opinion is, but I KNOW how to be a "pure bard." As you can see, I am personally trained to be a pure bard and a purifier. (That makes me the most money.)

Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 50 10
Shield Use.........................| 201 101
Physical Fitness...................| 140 40
Dodging............................| 153 53 (soon to be 70)
Arcane Symbols.....................| 140 40
Magic Item Use.....................| 140 40
Harness Power......................| 279 179
Elemental Mana Control.............| 90 20
Spirit Mana Control................| 74 16
Elemental Lore - Air...............| 155 55
Mental Lore - Manipulation.........| 175 75
Mental Lore - Telepathy............| 105 25
Climbing...........................| 105 25
Swimming...........................| 160 60
Trading............................| 252 152 (soon to be 202)

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 71

Spell Lists
Bard...............................| 100

Thanks for the advice, albeit with such a wonderfully condescending and dickhead tone. Since you dont care about what I think, I will tell you anyways (you can just say go fuck yourself).

Why do you have 152 ranks of trading? Seems like a waste to me, there are much easier ways to make money than selling gems.

Why do you have 16 ranks of spirit mana control and 10 of elemental? As a pure you should have at least 24 of mental. The only other reason to get spirit or elemental is if you have a mana battery who is not trained in mental.

You are overtrained in shield ranks which does not provid a ton of DS boost.

Just curious, what are you using air lore and telepathy for as a pure? Is it worth the TPs?

What kind of armor do you wear? Robes? You could easily trian into doubles with little hindrance.

[AMUSED1]

Thanks for the advice, albeit with such a wonderfully condescending and dickhead tone. Since you dont care about what I think, I will tell you anyways (you can just say go fuck yourself).

Why do you have 152 ranks of trading? Seems like a waste to me, there are much easier ways to make money than selling gems.

Why do you have 16 ranks of spirit mana control and 10 of elemental? As a pure you should have at least 24 of mental. The only other reason to get spirit or elemental is if you have a mana battery who is not trained in mental.

You are overtrained in shield ranks which does not provid a ton of DS boost.

Just curious, what are you using air lore and telepathy for as a pure? Is it worth the TPs?

What kind of armor do you wear? Robes? You could easily trian into doubles with little hindrance.

152 ranks of trading gives you a 21% increase in price when selling and a 21% discount when buying just by itself. Add in whatever INF bonus and it could easily be another 3 or 4%. I don't know about you, but a 21 to 25% increase in selling REALLY ADDS UP.

[Twitch]

Thanks for the advice, albeit with such a wonderfully condescending and dickhead tone. Since you dont care about what I think, I will tell you anyways (you can just say go fuck yourself).

Why do you have 152 ranks of trading? Seems like a waste to me, there are much easier ways to make money than selling gems.

Why do you have 16 ranks of spirit mana control and 10 of elemental? As a pure you should have at least 24 of mental. The only other reason to get spirit or elemental is if you have a mana battery who is not trained in mental.

You are overtrained in shield ranks which does not provid a ton of DS boost.

Just curious, what are you using air lore and telepathy for as a pure? Is it worth the TPs?

What kind of armor do you wear? Robes? You could easily trian into doubles with little hindrance.


I can answer most of these with certainty, although I dont know Emlisity.

1) She stated that she is trained to be a pure bard and a purifyer. Not everyone likes or wants to be a merchant, so your comment about there being easier ways to make money has nothing to do with being a bard.

2)Spirit and elemental control - my guess here is that she hunts with and elementalist but mostly a spiritualist, and they can provide a much quicker supply of mana than draining anything with 1013. MMC is NOT a necessary skill for bards, I know several mid age to older bards without this ability. Their reasons are simple, I dont need it. I personally have 24 ranks and rarely have mana issues so is it worth the points for me? probably not, but I cant deny the help with Rally, 1040, I like to think its worth that.

3)Overtrained in shield you say? Whats your bold DS without a shield? Have you considered that? Sure she might get more DS training dodge, but if you read her post, she's soon to have 70 ranks in dodge. Now I havent done her math for her, but speaking from my bard, my songs, training and tonis I have 119 ranks of dodge and 80 ranks in shield. I would guess her dodge is in the neighborhood of 150 by now, at .06 a rank - thats 90 DS from that, plus shield, plus bolt defense, I totally agree with her training.

4)Im not even going to bother answering this one about manip and telepathy, if you dont know, What the hell are you doing in the bard folder?

5)I actually found her armor training quite interesting. My thoughts are she either has some sweet 10x robes or something like that which I would totally agree with wearing for life - simply to not have worry about singing armor. To have to sing armor my renewals would jump from 75 to close to 100. Thats unacceptable so I, like her, bought the best armor I could over 7x, and for me it was brig. I also want to point out that as a pure singing 15/20/30 mana songs and managing renews, you do not want to be hindered. Its actually quite distracting, and wearing brig I near the point of screaming "this is unacceptable hindrance" they say its 7% but I have sat countless times and cast 401 over and over, the hindrance is 11% dont let them fool you. I dont give a rats ass what they say, the numbers speak to me for themselves.