Scarabs

[Gan]

Since the 'norm' of keeping or returning a disarmed scarab to the box owner is in question. Lets see what a poll says here...

Note: I would include a 3rd category of keeping the first and returning the rest; however, by keeping the first (and possibly only) scarab - you are still keeping the scarab without consent from the box owner.

*Also include if you wish, whether or not you have played in the past or currently play a rogue/locksmith.

[Athgo]

I usually give em all to the picker, just like all other trap components. But then I don't normally tip as much if there are a lot of scarabs.

[Drew]

What are you trying to establish here Gan? For instance Athgo voted that the picker keeps the scarab but he gives them to the picker. I think you are asking who "owns" the scarab, so Athgo's answer is probably in the wrong category if that's what you are asking.

[Athgo]

I've never had a picker who didn't offer the scarabs to me though, so I always just decline and they keep them.

[Gan]

What are you trying to establish here Gan? For instance Athgo voted that the picker keeps the scarab but he gives them to the picker. I think you are asking who "owns" the scarab, so Athgo's answer is probably in the wrong category if that's what you are asking.

I'm saying who should keep the scarab after its disarmed. Where does the authority lie when determining where the scarab goes? The picker? Or the box owner?

Since the existence of the scarab is solely dependent upon the picker to render accessable - the authority lies with the picker, IMO.

If that was not Athgo's interpretation then he can modify that in his follow up post.

[Athgo]

I'm saying who should keep the scarab after its disarmed. Where does the authority lie when determining where the scarab goes? The picker? Or the box owner?

Since the existence of the scarab is solely dependent upon the picker to render accessable - the authority lies with the picker, IMO.

If that was not Athgo's interpretation then he can modify that in his follow up post.

I agree with that, hence why I decline when they are offered to me. I would be fine with them not offering them to me because if I go by other means of having a box opened (NPC, 125) I would never get a scarab out of it anyways.

[diethx]

Like I said in the other thread, I always gave all scarabs to a picker when I used them, and as a picker I keep them all plus any components.

[Gelston]

I'm saying who should keep the scarab after its disarmed. Where does the authority lie when determining where the scarab goes? The picker? Or the box owner?

Since the existence of the scarab is solely dependent upon the picker to render accessable - the authority lies with the picker, IMO.

If that was not Athgo's interpretation then he can modify that in his follow up post.

I think ultimatly the existance of the scarab lies with the owner killing the creature, looting it, picking up the box, and deciding to have it picked by whichever picker. Theres a few twists and turns with everything.

That being said, I think its simple etiquette to give the scarab to the picker.

[Stanley Burrell]

There's a boob thread.

[RichardCranium]

Stan's ass.

[Stanley Burrell]

Oh.

And since it hasn't been mentioned yet:

My buttocks.

[wood1559]

i give it to the picker.

unless stan's around.

[Methais]

Oh.

And since it hasn't been mentioned yet:

My buttocks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6D1YI-41ao

[Vesi]

I voted the picker gets the scarab. (I posted what I do in the other thread)


Disclaimer:

I play a rogue in GS but am not one in real life. ;P

[Methais]

Picker gets scarab. I used to pick a lot too.

[War Angel]

Picker keeps the scarab.

Play a rogue in GS, stopped picking for the masses when the rogues guild was introduced.
Lost interest in "keeping up" with the masses and retired to a self box picking hunter.

[Jorddyn]

I think ultimatly the existance of the scarab lies with the owner killing the creature, looting it, picking up the box, and deciding to have it picked by whichever picker. Theres a few twists and turns with everything.

That being said, I think its simple etiquette to give the scarab to the picker.


Why isn't the scarab considered basically another foe, which you're asking the picker to vanquish so that you can get to your treasure?

If there was troll king standing between your character and treasure, and you asked someone to dispatch of him, would you demand any treasure garnered from the kill? The only real difference in this case is that the "kill" is the treasure.

[Gan]

Why isn't the scarab considered basically another foe, which you're asking the picker to vanquish so that you can get to your treasure?

If there was troll king standing between your character and treasure, and you asked someone to dispatch of him, would you demand any treasure garnered from the kill? The only real difference in this case is that the "kill" is the treasure.

Probably the best analogy to date.

[Gelston]

Why isn't the scarab considered basically another foe, which you're asking the picker to vanquish so that you can get to your treasure?

If there was troll king standing between your character and treasure, and you asked someone to dispatch of him, would you demand any treasure garnered from the kill? The only real difference in this case is that the "kill" is the treasure.

Because its a trap. Before this turns into some sort of I'm right, no Im right sort of thing.... You can make all the analogies you want, its how I see it. Its not going to change my opinion.

[Jorddyn]

Because its a trap.

In the right hands, it's a mere trap. In the wrong hands, it's a deadly killer that jumps between bodies or explodes.


You can make all the analogies you want, its how I see it. Its not going to change my opinion.


At least you're keeping an open mind.

[Allereli]

can make all the analogies you want, its how I see it. Its not going to change my opinion.

Will the current 28-3 voting change your opinion?

[Gan]

Gelston voted amongst the 28.

:help:

Damnit! Throwing off the numbers!

Booo!

[Allereli]

Gelston voted amongst the 28.

:help:

Yeah I just noticed that, oops?

[Gan]

I went back and read his primary post. He clarified that he thought the bug belongs to the box owner. Yet he voted to the picker because he usually gives the bug to the box owner.

:(

[Vyst]

.

[Ignot]

i dont like the wording to this poll. i think the owner should get first dibs on the scarab but its impolite not to give it to the picker. The scarab is the tip though, i dont give extra. That being said, its enough already with all this tipping bullshit for picking and healing, not to mention paying for spells too. wtf, i can charge 15k for a spellup. its just fucking mana and it takes a minute!

[Gnomad]

where's the "we really needed a second thread on this" option?

[DaCapn]

I was under the impression that the original poster was asking the picking rogues what they do about the scarab since they are in a position of control there.

Personally, I always disarm the scarab, then tap it to show that it is safe. I'd say that definitely less than 5% of people that I'm picking for end up taking the scarab. Most of the time people who take it tip 2-3k on a box that drops a scarab anyway.

I look at everything inside the box as their property. Whatever they choose to give me out of the haul is up to them. You can argue the logistics plenty of ways (the vanquished foe, etc) and they all make some sense. I think people are inclined to give you more of a tip if you're less pretentious though. If you just take it without asking they might not be inclined to be as generous (and your tip for a haul of 10 boxes might just stop right there at a scarab). That's how I might choose to react.

[diethx]

I was under the impression that the original poster was asking the picking rogues what they do about the scarab since they are in a position of control there.

Yeah, that's what he was asking:


Since the 'norm' of keeping or returning a disarmed scarab to the box owner is in question. Lets see what a poll says here...

[Martaigne]

Since the existence of the scarab is solely dependent upon the picker to render accessable - the authority lies with the picker, IMO.

Not to mention all the risk lies with the picker to disarm it... picker gets to keep the scarab. IMO it's common courtesy.

FTR I do not play a picking rogue.

[Izzy]

I don't think the options are well worded. I voted for the box owner, but as I've stated countless times now (ok, probably 4 times), the locksmith will generally get my scarabs. As a locksmith, I always offered the scarabs to the owner.

[CrystalTears]

So I believe the problem is that because pickers assume that the scarab is theirs, and don't give the box owner a chance to tip them with the scarab, they feel we're stealing the scarab from their treasure. Is that basically what it is?

I'm just trying to understand where the foul play is here when people generally give the scarab to the picker, but will resort to going to the NPC locksmith to avoid these decisions... and still not get the scarab.

[NocturnalRob]

but will resort to going to the NPC locksmith to avoid these decisions... and still not get the scarab.

exactly. i play a locksmithing rogue. the scarabs i disarm are mine. i don't even ask. i just pocket it. if someone speaks up and has a problem, i'll explain to them my position.

most people are pretty agreeable on that point. If not...I dunno, I don't train in pickpocketing, and I won't kill anyone. But I'll definitely be irked.

[Gan]

I don't think the options are well worded. I voted for the box owner, but as I've stated countless times now (ok, probably 4 times), the locksmith will generally get my scarabs. As a locksmith, I always offered the scarabs to the owner.

41:5 at this point, in favor of the pickers.

I'd say the overall meaning of the poll and this thread, especially in light of the parallel discussion in the other scarab thread, is pretty evident.

[CrystalTears]

41:5 at this point, in favor of the pickers.

I'd say the overall meaning of the poll and this thread, especially in light of the parallel discussion in the other scarab thread, is pretty evident.
Actually, you should have worded the question "who owns the scarab" because that's technically what they're bitching about. Not whether who deserves it ultimately, but who gets to decide who keeps it.

[Drew]

I voted for "the picker" because I give it to them, but I think the owner of the box owns the scarab. If the question was "who owns the scarab" I would have voted for the box owner.

[Gan]

Actually, you should have worded the question "who owns the scarab" because that's technically what they're bitching about. Not whether who deserves it ultimately, but who gets to decide who keeps it.
Well fine.
Someone more poll competent can make a poll. :(

[Deathravin]

Unfortunately, n00bs mostly don't frequent this site.

Older players always let me keep the scarab after I disarm it. But it's always the n00bs that don't understand why I get snippy with them after they've kept the 3rd scarab in a row.

[Izzy]

I voted for "the picker" because I give it to them, but I think the owner of the box owns the scarab. If the question was "who owns the scarab" I would have voted for the box owner.


Actually, you should have worded the question "who owns the scarab" because that's technically what they're bitching about. Not whether who deserves it ultimately, but who gets to decide who keeps it.

:yeahthat:

[Jorddyn]

most people are pretty agreeable on that point. If not...I dunno, I don't train in pickpocketing, and I won't kill anyone. But I'll definitely be irked.

Stop, or I shall yell stop again?

[DeV]

I voted for "the picker" because I give it to them, but I think the owner of the box owns the scarab. If the question was "who owns the scarab" I would have voted for the box owner./agree

[AnticorRifling]

They want to keep it they can disarm it. Box owner owns it sure but he's not doing shit with it unless the picker disarms it. You find a scarab on a box you're picking it's a simple "I'll disarm this but I'm keeping it." if they aren't cool with that they can move on.

[NocturnalRob]

They want to keep it they can disarm it.

qft

[Allereli]

Hopdevil says, "A very hard bug actually."
>
Hopdevil mutters under his breath.
> 'my scarab!
You exclaim, "My scarab!"
>
Having found a trap on the chest, Hopdevil begins to attempt to disarm it...

Hopdevil nods with satisfaction.
>
Hopdevil says, "Then you disarm it."
>
Hopdevil nods to a blood red teardrop-etched scarab.
> waggle scar
Okay, you waggle your fingers at the teardrop-etched scarab. Nothing happens.
> glance scar
You glance at a blood red teardrop-etched scarab.
> waggle scar
Okay, you waggle your fingers at the teardrop-etched scarab. Nothing happens.
> shake head
You shake your head.

[Farn]

I always offer scarabs to the person who brought me the box, and I usually end up being told to keep it. I've always considered it polite to offer the scarab after disarming it, but I admit I tend to expect the owner of the box to decline.

I think the picker should either be given the scarab or a larger-than-normal tip for that box, since I believe people should tip based on the value of the stuff they get from their boxes.

I didn't vote for either option.

[BigWorm]

I used to go through the whole offering the scarab back thing, but when I pick now I usually focus on getting as much exp per unit of time and the whole masturbatory deal with offering it only hoping that they turn it down seemed like a huge waste of time. I work fast enough now that if you're not paying attention you might even miss me disarming and picking it up in a crowded room.

[NocturnalRob]

xxx whispers, "Scarab a good tip for 6 boxes?"

sigh...

[Gan]

sigh...

:lol:

Disarm the scarab, pocket it. Relock the box, and hand it back. Then walk away.

*Actually, you dont even have to unlock it to begin with.

[NocturnalRob]

:lol:

Disarm the scarab, pocket it. Relock the box, and hand it back. Then walk away.

*Actually, you dont even have to unlock it to begin with.

well, i wasn't aware that they'd actually try to use the scarab as a tip until after all the boxes were all opened.

[nub]

:lol:

Disarm the scarab, pocket it. Relock the box, and hand it back. Then walk away.

*Actually, you dont even have to unlock it to begin with.

Or hopefully there is a scales trap and just pick em all and leave the table without disarming the scales. (if you're doing a bulk table picking)

Actually, would is it the person opening the box that gets fined, or the one who picked it?

[LadyLaphrael]

Or hopefully there is a scales trap and just pick em all and leave the table without disarming the scales. (if you're doing a bulk table picking)

Actually, would is it the person opening the box that gets fined, or the one who picked it?

If you see it and don't disarm it, you get fined for some length of time.

[DaCapn]

I never was particularly sympathetic for people who get upset about not getting enough from the tip or not getting the scarab. Obviously, part of that stems from the fact that I think the box-finder owns the scarab.

If I'm at a picking spot, I'd prefer to open some boxes getting exp and coins (however little) as opposed to inactivity. If you prefer the latter, highlight their name with "gives shitty tips pink" and never pick for them again. If you expect a certain FEE, you ought to explain that to them. Otherwise you'll just have to live with the TIP that they give you.

Once I got 50 coins for like 3 boxes. At least it made me laugh.

[Gan]

The rogue gets the fine for any trap he fails to disarm after affecting it. Such as failure to disarm a bug on the ground, or failure to disarm scales after picking the lock.

Right after the scales trap came out, we had several terrorist incidents in the landing with pickers picking and leaving the armed box in the park for someone to open. It got downright nasty.

Its just like a sorcerer leaving cursed items lying around. They'll track you down and arrest your ass for doing it.

[Gan]

>profile ganalon
Name: Ganalon O'Grady
Race: Human Gender: Male
Age: in the flower of life (43)
Date of Birth: 11/20/5064
Clan: Vornavis
He currently has full citizenship in Isle of the Four Winds.
Member of Silvergate Inn
Guild Master of the Rogue Guild
Strongest foe vanquished: a krolvin brigand
Most difficult lock picked: -1230
Most difficult trap disarmed: -479
Quote: "I keep all scarabs that I disarm, regardless of who's box it is. Dont like it? Dont ask me to pick your boxes."

[DaCapn]

Quote: "I keep all scarabs that I disarm, regardless of who's box it is. Dont like it? Dont ask me to pick your boxes."

Now we get to debate whether that's an OOC or IC contract.

[Vyst]

.

[DaCapn]

I may be a little slow on this one... but how is that OOC at all?

I was really just messing around when I said it but... Whether or not profiles are OOC? I've always been at least somewhat on the fence about that and fame. There's more ways to argue for/against that stuff than this scarab business, I think.

To stay on-topic, I started a new thread to discuss it:
http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=37917