WTF???

[Miscast]

Seriously. WTF.

http://news.aol.com/health/article/pregnant-man-is-expecting-again/247348?icid=100214839x1212824662x1200789020

[diethx]

Eh, I don't really see a problem with it, except for how much that kid will probably be teased in school. Kids can be cruel as all hell and this is some serious bullying fodder.

[Necromancer]

what's the problem again?

[kallindra]

I kinda missed it too...

[Rimalon]

That the dude has no penis, and instead, a vajayjay?

[Nieninque]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=yU-tjPhLcRI

[Rimalon]

Wait, wait, I got it. Read the article:


First, they bought donor sperm on the Internet and Nancy Beatie used a syringe she had bought at a pet store to inseminate her husband. Soon after, a home pregnancy test confirmed that he was pregnant.

Now THAT'S worthy of a WTF.

[kallindra]

... yeah, that' totally gets a WTF... possibly just because the way it reads sounds... wrong at first...

[Athgo]

I just think its funny that they call it a pregnant man when its obviously not a man.

[kallindra]

Well... s/he is legally a man... so I suppose they have to... not sure how that works really... but... what ever works for someone I guess.

[Necromancer]

Um, he's obviously a man. You don't get to define someone's gender for them. It's sort of part of being a decent human being- respecting others. Try it sometime.

[diethx]

How do you legally become the opposite sex without altering your genitals?

[Necromancer]

You don't- at least not in this country. He kept reproductive organs there but underwent the required cosmetic changes.

[diethx]

Oh, the article said he legally became a male after he had his boobs removed. But he still has a vagina. And I thought a sex change was the defining moment of becoming the other sex.

[Nieninque]

Um, he's obviously a man. You don't get to define someone's gender for them. It's sort of part of being a decent human being- respecting others. Try it sometime.

So if you put a dress on and start calling yourself Shirley, would that make you a woman?

[Necromancer]

It's up to the state ultimately as to what counts and what doesn't. For some reason I was under the impression that he had a penis made but had a surgery to allow him to give birth afterwards (he kept his internal reproductive organs). I may have been incorrect in that understanding, however.

[waywardgs]

seriously... that dude needs to stop getting knocked up.

I mean really.

[kallindra]

From what I read, basically he had all cosmetic surgery, except for any gential type... so all he had to do was stop taking testosterone to begin cycles again... and I'm sorry, I'm all for people doing what they feel is best for themselves... but talking about a man having a menstrual cycle... and not just kidding about it... is kinda weird. I don't mean any sort of offense... it just seems weird.

[Necromancer]

It's just not what we're used to. But it goes to show how our concept of gender isn't nearly as infallible as we think it is. That's the part that seems "weird" for most- it shatters presumptions about gender and requires us to backtrack and redefine gender through exclusion in order to maintain some semblance of permanence.

Alternately, it may just be that he has a better beard than most of the other dudes watching, and it inspires much envy.

[Alfster]

What bathroom do they make "it" use?

Mens or womens?

[FNLN]

Um, he's obviously a man. You don't get to define someone's gender for them. It's sort of part of being a decent human being- respecting others. Try it sometime.

You're absolutely right, we don't get to define someone's gender for them. Genetics takes care of that. Regardless of how that individual percieves herself, genetically she is female.

[Necromancer]

Anyone who uses the genetics argument to reinforce the gender binary does nothing more than show off how ragingly ignorant they are.

Genetics provide some of the best evidence against the immutability of the US's gender binary (which is by no means universal, by the way).

Someone needs to put their Bible and 7th grade Biology books down and get their facts from more reliable sources.

[FNLN]

Anyone who uses the genetics argument to reinforce the gender binary does nothing more than show off how ragingly ignorant they are.
I fail to see how using the XY system makes one ignorant, perhaps you would care to enlighten me, and point me to reliable scientific resources that demonstrate why it is not a good system.


Someone needs to put their Bible and 7th grade Biology books down and get their facts from more reliable sources.
You have a great deal of nerve calling someone ignorant and then making that wild assumption.

[Tea & Strumpets]

It's just not what we're used to. But it goes to show how our concept of gender isn't nearly as infallible as we think it is. That's the part that seems "weird" for most- it shatters presumptions about gender and requires us to backtrack and redefine gender through exclusion in order to maintain some semblance of permanence.

Alternately, it may just be that he has a better beard than most of the other dudes watching, and it inspires much envy.

I'm all for "live and let live", but you are so fucking delusional it's hilarious.

[thefarmer]

It's just not what we're used to. But it goes to show how our concept of gender isn't nearly as infallible as we think it is. That's the part that seems "weird" for most- it shatters presumptions about gender and requires us to backtrack and redefine gender through exclusion in order to maintain some semblance of permanence.

Alternately, it may just be that he has a better beard than most of the other dudes watching, and it inspires much envy.

I guess dog fucking isn't "weird" to you either.

"How dare you presume to judge the sexual orientation of this person! It's called respect!"

[CrystalTears]

OMG not another episode of Necronancy defining gender.

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=7191&highlight=vishra

[Some Rogue]

Since I have the genitals of a male horse, I decided to go all the way and surgically alter the rest of my body. Please refer to me as Seabiscuit from now on.

[CrystalTears]

Since I have the genitals of a male horse, I decided to go all the way and surgically alter the rest of my body. Please refer to me as Seabiscuit from now on.
You and horses. I should have known!

[Miscast]

OMG not another episode of Necronancy defining gender.

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=7191&highlight=vishra

Damn is that thread real? Walls of text arguing for the gender of a text-based character FTL

[Proxy]

>Necromancer X 100

No offense Q. but gender is defined by ones biology, no amount of cosmetic surgery is going to change that fact a female is female and a male is a male. Unless the biology its self is changed, IE chromosomal/genetic make up.

The pregnant "individual" that spawned this thread has female reproductive organs, and is a chromosomal female. There for, they are biologically female.

You can put a suit on a tree and call it Bob, but it none the less remains a tree.

[Gelston]

Its still a woman. She might look like a man, but inside she is a woman. Is a Lamborgini body on a toyota corolla a Lamborgini? No.

[m1kinsey]

Since I have the genitals of a male horse, I decided to go all the way and surgically alter the rest of my body. Please refer to me as Seabiscuit from now on.

Now that is both hilarious and poignant. Good use of wit and sarcasm.


Seriously though. I was born male. Parts and all. What I was not born with was a vagina, uterus and ovaries. Those organs that are specifically designed and grow purposefully in women only do not grow in men (hermaphrodites being the odd exception and an entirely different argument). The person in the article is as has been noted above genetically, chromosomally and personally a woman. Men cannot do it!

And how can anyone say "It's up to the state to decide?". That is utterly ludicrous. Thomas Beatie obviously made the choice to live a transgendered lifestyle. He says he wants to be a man but has decided to take on the roll of a woman and bear children? Now that is confusion the highest degree. The choice was his. And if he had told his thearapist that he one day wanted to bear children he might not have even been able to qualify for any sexual reassignment because it fundamentally defies the desire to be a man! His choices to do what he wanted. It ends up as a fiasco and practially a carnival side show. The states does not decide any of the afore mentioned things. Thomas Beatie did. XY argument stands. The right of an individual to do what they want with thier own body stands.

All that being said, it's rather pleasing to see that a woman that wants to be a man is doing what she was created for. She is in essence fulfilling her maternal/internal roll. It's written in Thomas Beaties' blue print. It seems to me that Thomas Beaties' transgenderedness has only allowed Thomas Beatie to foster some type of 'validation' in being in a same sex relationship with the facade of being in a non same sex relationship. Odd, a little disturbing, gonna be confusing to the children, but in the end they'll think its normal/special/different or whatever. Still in the end it was a woman giving birth to her children. A desire that is deeply engenedered in most women.

Thanks again for the quote highlighted above. It was extremely funny. Gonna be laughing for days. I want to leave you with a quote a saw on the boards just a few days ago. Roughly it says

"In the desire for a unique alteration has caused people to do some odd things."

[Parkbandit]

Anyone who uses the genetics argument to reinforce the gender binary does nothing more than show off how ragingly ignorant they are.

Genetics provide some of the best evidence against the immutability of the US's gender binary (which is by no means universal, by the way).

Someone needs to put their Bible and 7th grade Biology books down and get their facts from more reliable sources.


YEA! ANYONE WHO USES FACTS AND SCIENCE TO REINFORCE THE GENDER BINARY DOES NOTHING MORE THAN SHOW OFF HOW RAGING IGNORANT THEY ARE!!!!111

[Sweets]

If you were born female and wish to live the life of a male, I'm all for using the pronoun "he" to refer to you. I will treat you male and think of you as male. However, males cannot have children. I would expect a level of commitment to the gender. There are plenty of children to adopt.

[Xeromist]

Anyone who uses the genetics argument to reinforce the gender binary does nothing more than show off how ragingly ignorant they are.

Genetics provide some of the best evidence against the immutability of the US's gender binary (which is by no means universal, by the way).

Someone needs to put their Bible and 7th grade Biology books down and get their facts from more reliable sources.

Eh...I guess I'm ignorant then. Dunno where my Bible is, but I can tell you where my biology, physiology, maternity/labor/delivery, etc. books are. You can't really argue with genetics (in my own somewhat humble, personal, self-contradicting, AMAZING opinion)--they're going to be exactly what they are. And if Mr. Spermy is carrying that "Y" half...by Jove, you're going to have a male with a penis that will be born. In the event that said male baby has one X and one Y chromosome, this is a non-negotiable matter (as far as I am aware).

Your personal identity, however, is a whole other playing field. Identity is malleable. If you were born with a penis but identify yourself (identity now, not genetics) as a female and wish to be addressed as such, fine. Whatever helps you sleep at night. It's not going out of my way to respect that.

[Liagala]

If you were born female and wish to live the life of a male, I'm all for using the pronoun "he" to refer to you. I will treat you male and think of you as male. However, males cannot have children. I would expect a level of commitment to the gender. There are plenty of children to adopt.

:yeahthat: If it makes you happy to change gender, go for it. I really don't care. Stick with it though. If you want to be a man, be one.

[Ravenstorm]

Oh, the article said he legally became a male after he had his boobs removed. But he still has a vagina. And I thought a sex change was the defining moment of becoming the other sex.

It's my understanding that a lot of FtM transexuals don't get genital reassignment surgery. It is both very expensive and purely cosmetic since a 'built' penis doesn't actually work beyond urination. It's much cheaper and easier for men to reassign as women and the surgery is more realistic as well.