Makin' a Paladin

[Moist Happenings]

Alright, after all the stat crunching for paladins I decided I'd make one. I've got a question about basic mechanics.

Is it possible to go without dodge entirely for the first 50 levels or so, and then only get ranks sporadically for extra DS? I'm planning to go OHE with a tower shield, so I figured shield block would be a much more important factor in overall DS.

How badly is dodge needed in a sword and board situation?

By my logic, with a tower shield you cut your dodge in half, and wearing full plate (which I'm aiming for ASAP) you negate another 17.5%, leaving any dodge ranks I have really only affecting me at 1/3 efficiency.

[Moist Happenings]

If anyone's interested in giving me a few critiques, here's the spreadsheet I've been working from.

I have an alternative stat placement plan that focuses more PTPs should the need arise, but the one in the spreadsheet is more focused on MTPs

http://www.freewebs.com/thepraetorianguard/Paladin.xls

[Stunseed]

Dodge is nice and all, but if you're rocking a tower shield with Divine Shield on you're going to be in good shape. That shit is serious business.

[Moist Happenings]

Dodge is nice and all, but if you're rocking a tower shield with Divine Shield on you're going to be in good shape. That shit is serious business.

Great. Thanks man. That's what I was counting on. The DS stats on the spreadsheet without dodge really didn't seem that bad looking to me, and I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something.

Another thing I was curious about is redux. Is it at all a factor for paladins? By GS3 standards it stays at 0 forever because of all the spells. Anything change specifically for paladins?

[Silvanostar]

semis in gs4 get pretty decent semidux as long as they train in the physical stuff and keep spells at 1x

[Moist Happenings]

semis in gs4 get pretty decent semidux as long as they train in the physical stuff and keep spells at 1x

Hmm. Pretty much throughout my spreadsheet has me with 9-10 physical ranks, fully singled in spells, and 1.2x I think in lores. My biggest worry is that it may end up being unbalanced in the middle somewhere. To get the best efficiency out of my training while still pumping tons of points into armor use early on I had to really spread out certain bits of training.

* Actually I'm not 1.2x lores anymore. Just checked. It's at .8x. I gave up a bit for some dodge near the end, but I might get rid of it again if my redux turns out okay without it.

[Silvanostar]

i'm don't think lores affect semidux

[Moist Happenings]

i'm don't think lores affect semidux

Thanks very much. Semidux is a relatively new concept to me. I've never had a character that it could affect really. I'll look up some info on it and adjust accordingly. I appreciate the help.

[LadyKiora]

Guess all that bookwork got you interested.


:club:

[Moist Happenings]

Another question. What maneuvers seem to work out best for Paladins, and how important are they overall?

I always tend to prefer the easy ones, like weapon specilization, simple +DS and such. You know. Set 'em and forget 'em. Is that the right route to go for a Paladin or is there something better to aim for?

Additionally, my constitution is one of my growth stats, meaning it won't even hit 50 until level 18, and I only single physical training, so I don't have a massive amount of stamina at the moment. That's why I'm wondering how important maneuvers end up being to a Paladin overall. With my character, they really won't come into a position where I'm competent with them until level 40 or 50.

[Moist Happenings]

Guess all that bookwork got you interested.


:club:

Haha, yeah it did actually. I've had a high level bard (pre gs4), a high level sorcerer, wizard, rogue, and a few others, but I've never had anything that really qualified as a semi, save the bard, but he was waaaay back in the day where if you wanted to get above level 80 you had to pick boxes.

Figured instead of going with another Bard, the Paladin idea seemed interesting. After reading through their spell list it really looks like you can turn them into sort of warrior sorcerers, which is neat.

And the sanctified weapon thing really put me over the edge if I was on the fence about it. I'm all for going the laziest route possible, and not having to bless my stuff or look for blesses is just an added bonus.

[Moist Happenings]

Woooo, go rat script go.

Level: 8 Deeds: 1
Experience: 85127 Death's Sting: None
Exp. until next: 7373 Recent Deaths: 0
Mental TPs: 10 Fame: 34774
Physical TPs: 73 Mana: 21/21 max

Your mind is muddled.

Anybody have any input on the maneuvers thing? I'm still in my grace period of course and have stat fixes, but I'd like to get it all nailed down before I run out of time.

[Stunseed]

I think until your spells get into order a knockdown manuever would prolly be a good idea. Bullrush offers you that. Surge is also sexy for the boost of AS.

[Moist Happenings]

I think until your spells get into order a knockdown manuever would prolly be a good idea. Bullrush offers you that. Surge is also sexy for the boost of AS.

Hmm, knockdown's a good idea since I haven't got sweep anymore. I had planned for wspec and surge already. I'll get bullrush too. Around what level should I expect my spells to start taking over for that? 30 or so, when I have 1625 and enough lore to pretty consistently make things kneel? The first 20 levels are always cake. There are enough things to hunt that just don't do very much to stop you from killing them aside from swing every 6 seconds or so.

Feasibly I could go from rats to thraks/mants straight to zombies through level 25 without even having to bother knocking things over. If I can get my spells in order by then I could probably skip bullrush altogether unless it's useful later down the road, even with the spells.

Thanks very much for the help, Stun.

[mrjrd222]

If you're going to use a Tower Shield (you mentioned that earlier... somewhere... right?) Shield Bash is a good one as well. It knocks stuff down and has a decent chance to get them in a more forward stance.

I don't know the specifics of Bullrush, but I know Shield Bash is much better as a large race. A spiked shield helps too, but that's down the road.

[Moist Happenings]

If you're going to use a Tower Shield (you mentioned that earlier... somewhere... right?) Shield Bash is a good one as well. It knocks stuff down and has a decent chance to get them in a more forward stance.

I don't know the specifics of Bullrush, but I know Shield Bash is much better as a large race. A spiked shield helps too, but that's down the road.

Hmm, good idea. I might check out my options if I can get high enough level while I'm still in my grace period. I'm only a half elf, so size might be a hindrance, but I think it'd fit my RP more than Bullrush. That's equally important to me as it being viable mechanically.

Thanks much.

[thefarmer]

Alright, after all the stat crunching for paladins I decided I'd make one. I've got a question about basic mechanics.

This is why I thought it was foolish of you to give advice on rolling up a paladin.

[Moist Happenings]

This is why I thought it was foolish of you to give advice on rolling up a paladin.

Were my final results incorrect somehow?

All I did in the end was give one plan from me to maximize training points with the input I got from everyone throughout the thread, and give a bit more depth to the two other plans involved. Her original one, and the stat maximization one.

I stated that "If you want to focus on this, this one might work better. If you want to focus on that, that one might work better" et cetera, but didn't even come close to alluding to the fact that my plan would be the be all end all of all stat plans. If she does plan to aim for cap ASAP and worry about extra TPs, then the stat maximization plan is probably for the best, which I noted, but if she plays casually which is the impression that I got, then my plan affords the best amount of training points pre-cap by far, and minimizes stats that are only marginally useful. I like it for that purpose, but as I stated in the other thread, it's really dependent on what she wants to aim for, and her personal preferences.

As far as having a question, well, I'm always going to have those. I've played a Sorcerer, Bard, and Rogue to Legend levels and I don't claim to know absolutely everything about them. I know enough to crunch numbers for them reliably, though. The same is true of Paladins now. It wasn't when I first started trying to help, but as you'll note, in the beginning of Kiora's thread she was looking for a little more depth than she was being given, and no one else seemed to be stepping up at the time. Therefore, I did what I could to help with the disclaimer that I had never played a paladin, but knew enough to crunch numbers for her a bit.

So if you're posting here to tell me that I was wrong for trying to help someone who was fully informed that I was not completely knowledgeable about the subject matter yet, and doing a fairly decent job of it from a strictly informational and depth standpoint, then I'd say you're probably a bit out of line.

Edited to add:

As far as the question I had in this thread about basic mechanics, it didn't in any way apply to anything I was doing for Kiora in her thread. She had given her skill list, and the advice I gave on that was simply reinforcing what someone else had said regarding sticking to a fairly strict 1x or 2x, or 1.5x in some cases regimen. That holds true not only for Paladins, but for pretty much every profession. My question in this thread was solely for the benefit of my own character. Kiora had gone a route where she was taking dodge. I was inquiring as to the viability of possibly not taking it with my character. I didn't advise her one way or the other that far in depth about dodge because I didn't remember the exact mechanics behind it, nor did I know what size shield she preferred to use.

[Izzy]

If you're going to use a Tower Shield (you mentioned that earlier... somewhere... right?) Shield Bash is a good one as well. It knocks stuff down and has a decent chance to get them in a more forward stance.

I don't know the specifics of Bullrush, but I know Shield Bash is much better as a large race. A spiked shield helps too, but that's down the road.

You can also pick up a sancted shield and throw 1608 flares on it. Same for armor.

[Moist Happenings]

You can also pick up a sancted shield and throw 1608 flares on it. Same for armor.

Forgive me, but what exactly does sancting a shield or armor do? Last time I had to worry about sancting all I had to know was that I didn't need blesses if I had a sancted weapon.

[mrjrd222]

Forgive me, but what exactly does sancting a shield or armor do? Last time I had to worry about sancting all I had to know was that I didn't need blesses if I had a sancted weapon.

Same for armor or shields, they can be made of Eonake and you'd never have to bless them. But honestly, blesses are pretty easy to come by, so any blessable shield or armor will do (they can be blessed now, to hit undead with bullrush or shield bash/charge).

I'm not sure what will happen if you try 1608 on armor/shield that's already been blessed, I mean, it should work, shouldn't it? Maybe armor/shields have to already be sanctified for it to land, someone else knows, not me.

[Moist Happenings]

Same for armor or shields, they can be made of Eonake and you'd never have to bless them. But honestly, blesses are pretty easy to come by, so any blessable shield or armor will do (they can be blessed now, to hit undead with bullrush or shield bash/charge).

I'm not sure what will happen if you try 1608 on armor/shield that's already been blessed, I mean, it should work, shouldn't it? Maybe armor/shields have to already be sanctified for it to land, someone else knows, not me.

Ohhh okay. Yeah I guess I've still got that GS3 mentality of "Hit something with something other than a weapon? Hahahaha. Yeah maybe 20 years from now they'll imp that. Riiiight after thrown weapons."

Thanks.

[LadyKiora]

1608 works on shields the same way as weapons. Plasma flares + shield bash is nice. I don't have any maneuvers to test armor as yet.

[Izzy]

Same for armor or shields, they can be made of Eonake and you'd never have to bless them. But honestly, blesses are pretty easy to come by, so any blessable shield or armor will do (they can be blessed now, to hit undead with bullrush or shield bash/charge).

I'm not sure what will happen if you try 1608 on armor/shield that's already been blessed, I mean, it should work, shouldn't it? Maybe armor/shields have to already be sanctified for it to land, someone else knows, not me.

From the officials:
A Paladin may channel her spiritual energy into a holy weapon (sanctified) adding plasma criticals, to cause it to flare up to two times against a foe.

The key here is that you can have a flaring shield or armor without having to actually purchase such a service.

[Moist Happenings]

What would sanctifying your armor do? Allow flares with things like voln fu or bare handed attacking?

[AnticorRifling]

My guess is when you're struck the armor flares at the attacker.

[Moist Happenings]

My guess is when you're struck the armor flares at the attacker.

That's pretty cool too. Hadn't thought of that.

[Moist Happenings]

Alright, that's it! I'm mad at ALL you guys now.

Why didn't you tell me the adventurer's guild was so fricken' awesome? Nooo, you were all content to let me use my stupid little rat script for four days and 10 levels! Pssht.

Anyway, I have another question.

With bounty tasks you can obviously go over your mind cap and become saturated when you complete and gain experience, but my question is by how much?

Does anybody know what the limit on saturated experience in your mind is? It would be really awesome if I could just blow through 30 bounty quests and wait for 10 hours, then level.

[mrjrd222]

Alright, that's it! I'm mad at ALL you guys now.

Why didn't you tell me the adventurer's guild was so fricken' awesome? Nooo, you were all content to let me use my stupid little rat script for four days and 10 levels! Pssht.

Anyway, I have another question.

With bounty tasks you can obviously go over your mind cap and become saturated when you complete and gain experience, but my question is by how much?

Does anybody know what the limit on saturated experience in your mind is? It would be really awesome if I could just blow through 30 bounty quests and wait for 10 hours, then level.

The limit is something like 50% of your minds maximum capacity, or a bit more I'm not sure, the thing is, while saturated, if you turn in a bounty you'll get no exp.

The BEST time to turn in a bounty is when your mind is fried, or even numbed. The reason behind this is your mind will overflow, and you'll get a percent of the bounty exp instantly, and any instant exp in this game is just tits.

Plenty of bounties are easy, some are hard for certain classes. You'll probably struggle with foraging and skinning, but I think you have a smaller, or no percent chance of getting them if you don't train at all in FA/Survival/Perception etc, I could be wrong about this.

Gem tasks might seem annoying, but anything you loot while on a gem task has a much higher chance of dropping your gem (it has to be able to drop gems already of course). Boxes you've looted will also have extra chances to hold the gems you seek.

Saving a child can be really annoying as well, as anything that can attack you can choose to attack the child as well. Running back to town as fast as possible (with child following after each move) has a high, but not perfect chance of success. Stopping to fight things on the way back will get the child dead, while peering, moving and immobilizing a room before the child enters is the most tedious and has the highest chance of success (My cleric casts a sanctuary before the child follows, then I try to run past stuff before they leave the sanctuary, and yea I know you can't do this, but it's just an example).

And the other tasks are easy if you can kill what's being asked to be killed. At any time you can ask the taskmaster about removal (or remove) and get a new task (15 minutes or so between getting new tasks).

Any questions?

[Moist Happenings]

The limit is something like 50% of your minds maximum capacity, or a bit more I'm not sure, the thing is, while saturated, if you turn in a bounty you'll get no exp.

The BEST time to turn in a bounty is when your mind is fried, or even numbed. The reason behind this is your mind will overflow, and you'll get a percent of the bounty exp instantly, and any instant exp in this game is just tits.

Plenty of bounties are easy, some are hard for certain classes. You'll probably struggle with foraging and skinning, but I think you have a smaller, or no percent chance of getting them if you don't train at all in FA/Survival/Perception etc, I could be wrong about this.

Gem tasks might seem annoying, but anything you loot while on a gem task has a much higher chance of dropping your gem (it has to be able to drop gems already of course). Boxes you've looted will also have extra chances to hold the gems you seek.

Saving a child can be really annoying as well, as anything that can attack you can choose to attack the child as well. Running back to town as fast as possible (with child following after each move) has a high, but not perfect chance of success. Stopping to fight things on the way back will get the child dead, while peering, moving and immobilizing a room before the child enters is the most tedious and has the highest chance of success (My cleric casts a sanctuary before the child follows, then I try to run past stuff before they leave the sanctuary, and yea I know you can't do this, but it's just an example).

And the other tasks are easy if you can kill what's being asked to be killed. At any time you can ask the taskmaster about removal (or remove) and get a new task (15 minutes or so between getting new tasks).

Any questions?

Nope, that's pretty much it. Some of that I already learned, some of it's new. Thanks very much for the info. It's really a help.

[thefarmer]

Still waiting for you to tell me what was wrong with my final assessment.

I'll answer here.

Without knowing even the basic ideas of how a paladin works, let alone the more advanced information, giving a suggestion on training/stats is foolish.

You don't know if a paladin needs a ton of physical at the begining and less at the end, or vice versa.

You don't know how important stamina grown and regen is.

You don't know if obtaining a high CS at an early age is necessary or beneficial.

I could keep going.

Correction, the only good advice you can give is how to get as many numbers to 100 as possible.

[Moist Happenings]

I'll answer here.

Without knowing even the basic ideas of how a paladin works, let alone the more advanced information, giving a suggestion on training/stats is foolish.

You don't know if a paladin needs a ton of physical at the begining and less at the end, or vice versa.

You don't know how important stamina grown and regen is.

You don't know if obtaining a high CS at an early age is necessary or beneficial.

I could keep going.

Correction, the only good advice you can give is how to get as many numbers to 100 as possible.

So what you're saying is that the stat plan I offered, and the two others I elaborated on are not viable for a Paladin?

What specifically by the end of that thread did I say that you would say is bad advice?

You seem quick to criticize my lack of knowledge, but as of yet haven't pointed out that I actually said anything that was wrong in my final assessment. If there wasn't anything wrong with that assessment, how can you sit there and say I was stupid to give it?

All I gave her was options. She can use her own judgment on what to do with them based on what skills or spells or lores she wants to take, and based on endgame strength vs. strength along the way.

[thefarmer]

So what you're saying is that the stat plan I offered, and the two others I elaborated on are not viable for a Paladin?

The point I'm making is you don't know if it's viable or not, yet you're suggesting it.

[Moist Happenings]

The point I'm making is you don't know if it's viable or not, yet you're suggesting it.

Was there anything wrong with it? Really, give me specifics. Tell me what was wrong with it from your Paladin expert point of view.

Again, how can you sit there and say I was stupid to give advice if there was nothing wrong with the final assessment given?

And as I've stated, I gave her options. It was her choice what to do with them. I never claimed my stat plan or any stat plan was the best for her. I told her "if you're going to use more MTP, this one might work better. If you plan to get to cap and push for more TPs afterwards, this one might be better.". I gave her solid information that she could use to make an informed decision based on her knowledge of Paladins. Not mine.

[thefarmer]

And as I've stated, I gave her options. It was her choice what to do with them.

And like I've stated before, you gave her options without knowing the full scope of the profession. Numerous times you were corrected in the thread, not to mention in this thread you continue to have questions on the basics.

I can plug numbers into a stat calculater and have it spit out all sorts of training point combos and growth patterns. It doesn't mean I should give advice if I know very little about playing that profession.

I'm sorry you can't understand this concept.

[thefarmer]

Damn you man.

Do you always go back and edit your stuff?

[Moist Happenings]

And like I've stated before, you gave her options without knowing the full scope of the profession. Numerous times you were corrected in the thread, not to mention in this thread you continue to have questions on the basics.

I can plug numbers into a stat calculater and have it spit out all sorts of training point combos and growth patterns. It doesn't mean I should give advice if I know very little about playing that profession.

I'm sorry you can't understand this concept.

Again, what specifically was wrong from your expert Paladin point of view with my final assessment? Unless you can come up with something, anything, you're full of shit and you should just leave it the hell alone.

[Moist Happenings]

Damn you man.

Do you always go back and edit your stuff?

I edit to add. I never edit to take away. Just about every post I have on this forum is edited in some way shape or form to add something, or fix grammar, or just fix sentence structure. I never change the context of my original post, or edit things to put myself in a more favorable light.

Edited to add:

Honestly though, tell me what from your expert point of view was wrong with my final assessment in that thread. If there is something wrong with it, I'd like to know.

[thefarmer]

Again, what specifically was wrong from your expert Paladin point of view with my final assessment? Unless you can come up with something, anything, you're full of shit and you should just leave it the hell alone.

It's funny how you're mocking my experience with paladins by calling me the 'expert', when I've never said I was, but you're the one that didn't know paladins used a CS attack, and want to make training suggestions and I'm full of shit?

:rofl:

[thefarmer]

I edit to add. I never edit to take away. Just about every post I have on this forum is edited in some way shape or form to add something, or fix grammar, or just fix sentence structure. I never change the context of my original post, or edit things to put myself in a more favorable light.

Edited to add:

Honestly though, tell me what from your expert point of view was wrong with my final assessment in that thread. If there is something wrong with it, I'd like to know.

LIES ALL LIES!

[Moist Happenings]

It's funny how you're mocking my experience with paladins by calling me the 'expert', when I've never said I was, but you're the one that didn't know paladins used a CS attack, and want to make training suggestions and I'm full of shit?

:rofl:

I wasn't mocking you. Honestly. I just assumed you knew more on the whole about Paladins than I did based on your criticism of my advice.

Now stop dodging the question and tell me what was wrong with my final assessment, if anything.

[Moist Happenings]

LIES ALL LIES!

lol. It's possible that I may have changed a few things to put myself in a more favorable light a four or five years ago. I don't think I did, but my long-term memory isn't that great. I can say with absolutely certainty though that I haven't changed anything that way since I've been back.

Edited to add:

Hehe. If I was gonna do that, the first thing I woulda changed was when I factored Int into the equation for EXP absorbtion in Kiora's thread.

And again to add:

Seriously though, I touched on my writing style in my critique threads. I post the same way. I write something without care for grammar, sentence structure, how it reads, et cetera, and then I go through like three or four edits until I'm satisfied with it.

Edited one more time to add:

This post now has 5 edits on it, not including this one. Okay six now. Wanted to elaborate on what I changed to give you a better picture. First edit I misspelled four, so I fixed it. . Second I added the sentence starting with "I don't think I did" without saying "edited to add" because I was relatively sure you hadn't read it yet. Third I added the first "Edited to add" segment. Fourth I fixed the spelling on factored. Fifth I added the second "Edited to add", and the fifth and now sixth are this segment here. For posts on a forum I should probably work on completing my thoughts before I hit save.

Aaand seventh to add the last sentence in the above segment.

[thefarmer]

I wasn't mocking you. Honestly. I just assumed you knew more on the whole about Paladins than I did based on your criticism of my advice.

Now stop dodging the question and tell me what was wrong with my final assessment, if anything.

I'm not dodging any question. I already stated the factors you didn't consider when you gave your stat placement.

My turn to edit: And no, I'm not going to go back and pick apart your training plan because a) I'm too lazy b) don't care enough

[Moist Happenings]

I'm not dodging any question. I already stated the factors you didn't consider when you gave your stat placement.

My turn to edit: And no, I'm not going to go back and pick apart your training plan because a) I'm too lazy b) don't care enough

Well, you're right, I didn't consider them, and it could have caused an issue had she blindly followed what I was saying, as would have been the case had she up and bought a fixstat potion after I gave my first idea, which was clearly aura deficient. Knowing what I do now about Paladins though, any of those three final plans are completely viable for any path she could choose to take. Which one works better of course is dependent on a lot of factors, including her play style, her skill preferences, her spell preferences, et cetera. In my defense though, all I was doing was crunching some numbers for her because she either didn't know how to or didn't want to put in the effort to. I was willing to put in those numbers to give her a clearer picture of what was going on with her plan, and other suggested plans.

You're absolutely right that I shouldn't give advice regarding how to set up to hunt properly or the like, which at one point I think I did in that thread, and suggested that in the end she might need more PTPs than MTPs if she was going to take a more physical route. That statement was pretty bogus no matter how you look at it, because even if she's going for extra Combat maneuvers instead of lores or something, that's a shit ton of MTPs. I was wrong. I probably shouldn't have said it, and admitted that when it was pointed out to me that it was incorrect.

But again in my defense, I never said "I'm an expert. This is what you need to do to be successful.". At the end all I said was "Here's some elaboration on the previously suggested stuff. Do with it what you want based on your own knowledge and preferences.

And I swear to god if I spelled something wrong here, I'm not going to edit it..because I have willpower. This thought is complete, and I am happy with it.

Edited to add:

Okay, I have no willpower, and probably was spelled wrong. FUCK.

Sigh. It was also a sentence fragment. Two edits is my limit though.

Damnit. Three. That last bit didn't read right when it was on the same line as the first edit explanation. I need professional help.

[thefarmer]

You fail at not editing your posts.

http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/militia-fail.jpg

[Moist Happenings]

You fail at not editing your posts.

http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/militia-fail.jpg

Hahaha, that's the funniest fail picture I've ever seen. I want to be that guy when I grow up.

[Moist Happenings]

Last stupid question for the day. It's not regarding Paladins, but I didn't feel like making another whole thread for this.

Who the fuck changed the amunet and how to I tune to the channel acceptable for buying and selling stuff?

Edited to add:

Holy shit they actually made a change AND updated the helpfile. There's hope for Simu after all. Disregard my question.

[nocturnix]

The limit is something like 50% of your minds maximum capacity, or a bit more I'm not sure, the thing is, while saturated, if you turn in a bounty you'll get no exp.

The BEST time to turn in a bounty is when your mind is fried, or even numbed. The reason behind this is your mind will overflow, and you'll get a percent of the bounty exp instantly, and any instant exp in this game is just tits.

Plenty of bounties are easy, some are hard for certain classes. You'll probably struggle with foraging and skinning, but I think you have a smaller, or no percent chance of getting them if you don't train at all in FA/Survival/Perception etc, I could be wrong about this.

Gem tasks might seem annoying, but anything you loot while on a gem task has a much higher chance of dropping your gem (it has to be able to drop gems already of course). Boxes you've looted will also have extra chances to hold the gems you seek.

Saving a child can be really annoying as well, as anything that can attack you can choose to attack the child as well. Running back to town as fast as possible (with child following after each move) has a high, but not perfect chance of success. Stopping to fight things on the way back will get the child dead, while peering, moving and immobilizing a room before the child enters is the most tedious and has the highest chance of success (My cleric casts a sanctuary before the child follows, then I try to run past stuff before they leave the sanctuary, and yea I know you can't do this, but it's just an example).

And the other tasks are easy if you can kill what's being asked to be killed. At any time you can ask the taskmaster about removal (or remove) and get a new task (15 minutes or so between getting new tasks).

Any questions?

Awesome info. Ive been avoiding the adventurers guild since it came out. ::sigh:: I guess its time i join the masses.

[Izzy]

Awesome info. Ive been avoiding the adventurers guild since it came out. ::sigh:: I guess its time i join the masses.

Why the fuck would you avoid an ultra easy/fast way to make exp?

[Moist Happenings]

Why the fuck would you avoid an ultra easy/fast way to make exp?

I didn't purposely avoid it. I just never knew that it gave anything but bounty points. Last time I played really regularly and needed to level, it didn't exist.

[Moist Happenings]

Okay, I'm almost a week in now, and I figured I'd post my stats/skills to see if anybody has any pointers. How long is the training grace period by the way? A week, or a month?

At any rate, here it is:

Jespin (at level 12), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 111 27 (Plate by 54)
Shield Use.........................| 114 28
Combat Maneuvers...................| 66 14
Blunt Weapons......................| 114 28
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 10 2 (5 ranks by 20, 30 ranks by 70 or so)
Physical Fitness...................| 66 14
Harness Power......................| 66 14
Spiritual Lore - Blessings.........| 62 13 (All three lores are pretty much covered by 70 fairly well)
Survival...........................| 62 13
Perception.........................| 62 13
Swimming...........................| 50 10

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 1

Spell Lists
Paladin............................| 11

Name: Jespin Race: Half-Elf Profession: Paladin (not shown)
Gender: Male Age: 0 Expr: 182931 Level: 12
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 86 (18) ... 86 (18)
Constitution (CON): 43 (-3) ... 43 (-3)
Dexterity (DEX): 74 (17) ... 74 (17)
Agility (AGI): 74 (22) ... 74 (22)
Discipline (DIS): 35 (-12) ... 35 (-12)
Aura (AUR): 91 (20) ... 91 (20)
Logic (LOG): 94 (22) ... 94 (22)
Intuition (INT): 92 (21) ... 92 (21)
Wisdom (WIS): 95 (22) ... 95 (22)
Influence (INF): 37 (-1) ... 37 (-1)
Mana: 48 Silver: 0

Level 0 Stats for Jespin, Half-Elf Paladin

Strength (STR): 80
Constitution (CON): 31
Dexterity (DEX): 70
Agility (AGI): 70
Discipline (DIS): 23
Aura (AUR): 88
Logic (LOG): 93
Intuition (INT): 89
Wisdom (WIS): 91
Influence (INF): 25

Maximized for training points with a slightly heavier focus on MTPs. If I ever cap him, which isn't likely, I might consider doing a fixstat and aiming for the highest stat total possible.

Any suggestions, comments, criticisms, something I might have missed? I appreciate your input.

[mrjrd222]

At the very least, you don't need those extra two trains in Harness Power. Up till your level, they give 3 mana per train, over your level it only gives 1 extra mana. Unlike other skills that "1x" means level+1 (or level+2), 1x in HP means just enough for your level, which would be 12. It won't free up a ton of TP's, maybe enough to get your 28th armor use rank, but it's something.

[Moist Happenings]

At the very least, you don't need those extra two trains in Harness Power. Up till your level, they give 3 mana per train, over your level it only gives 1 extra mana. Unlike other skills that "1x" means level+1 (or level+2), 1x in HP means just enough for your level, which would be 12. It won't free up a ton of TP's, maybe enough to get your 28th armor use rank, but it's something.

13's at level (including level 0) I thought. The 14th is just because I'm lazy and don't want to forget to do it when I level, which should be soon. I'll fiddle with it to check to see if I lose 1 or 3 mana going from 13 to 12 though. You might be right.

Edit to add: Yeah, you were right. Thanks much for that.

[Moist Happenings]

Actually, it turns out I was so lazy that I hadn't even spent all my available points, and my swimming ranks were odd because I can change things on the fly as I need them still at the moment.

Here's my actual accurate training:

Jespin (at level 12), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 126 33
Shield Use.........................| 114 28
Combat Maneuvers...................| 66 14
Blunt Weapons......................| 114 28
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 10 2
Physical Fitness...................| 66 14
Harness Power......................| 58 12
Spiritual Lore - Blessings.........| 62 13
Survival...........................| 62 13
Perception.........................| 62 13
Climbing...........................| 20 4
Swimming...........................| 20 4

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 1

Spell Lists
Paladin............................| 11
Training Points: 0 Phy 1 Mnt

Actually I did have a question someone might be able to answer. The Paladin spell list doesn't have a whole lot that I can't do without until 25 or so, so I was thinking of training up to deep blues in minor spirit before I went for Paladin again. That smart or should I stick pretty religiously to the Paladin spell list until I'm overtrained enough that CS isn't too much of an issue?

[mrjrd222]

with extra AS/DS and Damage factor, and the occasional spell to blow a bit of mana, I think the Paladin line has a lot more to offer than Minor Spirit. You can get 101/103/107 from just about anyone in town, so you'd need to be able to get 120 for it to be any kind of help.

[Moist Happenings]

with extra AS/DS and Damage factor, and the occasional spell to blow a bit of mana, I think the Paladin line has a lot more to offer than Minor Spirit. You can get 101/103/107 from just about anyone in town, so you'd need to be able to get 120 for it to be any kind of help.

That's true. I wasn't really taking into consideration that paladin ranks still gave AS/DS bonuses for spells at that low a level. If I'm gonna go for the minor spiritual I'll wait until later on and train it up to 120. You're right again. Thanks much for the help.

[Moist Happenings]

Somebody earlier suggested I get a knockdown maneuver like shield bash. I've got it, and I'm finding it has limited use as a half elf. Almost everything I try to hit gives me like a 25-35 penalty and it's very rarely successful. My question is this: If I keep it and then go for shield charge later, will that negate some of the penalties, or is it just not really great for smaller races?

Or alternately, I'm only rank 2 in it right now. Will higher ranks lower my penalties or give me an acceptable overall success rate?

[Danical]

25-35 penalty? I didn't experience anything like that when I was a human.

What is the size of the creature you're trying to take down?

Are you wounded?

I would get an eonake shield and put guiding light flares in it as well. I assume you'll be heavy on the blessing lore since you're going with a shield build.

[Moist Happenings]

25-35 penalty? I didn't experience anything like that when I was a human.

What is the size of the creature you're trying to take down?

Are you wounded?

I would get an eonake shield and put guiding light flares in it as well. I assume you'll be heavy on the blessing lore since you're going with a shield build.

Yeah I am pretty heavy on the blessing lore. Right now I've got a spiked-invar glaes tower shield. It's pretty heavy. Maybe that's why I'm getting penalties? But no, never hurt when I'm doing it, and the creatures are larger than me. Ogres and trolls and such, but I've never bashed anything my level where I didn't have a penalty.

[Moist Happenings]

You lunge forward at a fire cat with your glaes tower shield and attempt a shield bash!
[Roll result: 118 (open d100: 89) Penalties: 30]
Sharp bash and a fire cat is knocked over by the blow.
... 10 points of damage!
Blow leaves an imprint on the fire cat's chest!
Roundtime: 5 sec.

You have terrible scars from some serious neck injury.

Maximum Health Points: 101
Remaining Health Points: 101

Maximum Spirit Points: 9
Remaining Spirit Points: 9

Maximum Stamina Points: 36
Remaining Stamina Points: 24


You are beginning to feel a little fatigued.
You lunge forward at a fire rat with your glaes tower shield and attempt a shield bash!
[Roll result: 64 (open d100: 12) Penalties: 20]
The fire rat deftly avoids the shield bash.
Roundtime: 5 sec.

Those two are under my level.

I'm wearing double chain right now, but the effect is the same in brig. I'm well enough trained off for either one of them.


Jespin, your Combat Maneuver training is as follows:

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Shield Bash sbash 2
Specialization I wspec1 2

You adjust your gear comfortably and feel satisfied that you are not encumbered enough to notice.

Additionally, I just leveled mid-hunt so I figured I'd try again to see if there was any change. No difference in the penalties.

[Danical]

Things larger than you are harder to bash, IIRC.

I personally loved bash. Oh, I think having your shield spiked makes it harder to perform the maneuver by 10.

Try using a normal shield of the same size to test. Weight shouldn't be a factor.

I've been told smaller shields are easier to hit with but larger shields have more effect (stance force, wounds, prone, RT).

I think a spiked and guiding light flaring eonake shield with bash would be fucking awesome.

[Danical]

look at the creatures or assess them to see what size they are.

I would get that neck injury healed just in case.

[Moist Happenings]

Hmm, thanks much for the advice. I'll try it out and see if I can improve the result.

I don't know if this shield is actually spiked though. When you inspect it it doesn't say it's spiked. If it has spikes in the description does that automatically do it?

[Danical]

if it doesn't say it's spiked in the INSPECTion then it's not.

[Moist Happenings]

Meh, oh well. I still like the look of it, but I'll definitely be looking for a spiked eonake tower shield later down the line. Thanks much for your input. It's been helpful.

[Stanley Burrell]

Join the Brotherhood of Steel and help these Paladins defeat the super mutants with your 10x mithril laser pistol and extra AP perks with headshots + a high perception. Best Paladin tactic ever.

[Moist Happenings]

Join the Brotherhood of Steel and help these Paladins defeat the super mutants with your 10x mithril laser pistol and extra AP perks with headshots + a high perception. Best Paladin tactic ever.

On the next episode of Star Ocean Gemstone!

[Danical]

I figured it out . . . I think.

The reason you're getting the penalty is because rats and cats are quadrupeds.

They're harder to bash/take down.

Try it on a bipedal creature!

[Moist Happenings]

I figured it out . . . I think.

The reason you're getting the penalty is because rats and cats are quadrupeds.

They're harder to bash/take down.

Try it on a bipedal creature!

Hmm, yeah I didn't think of that. They're small but they have the same penalty as the trolls/ogres because of the quadruped thing. I'll try to find something the same size as a half elf and bash it to see if I still have the penalty. Thanks much.

[Danical]

I think when I was using bash against Stone Mastiffs is was a bucket of fail.

[Moist Happenings]

Okay, I have about five days left on my trial, and I want to make absolutely sure all my ducks are in a row before I can't instant migrate or change my stats, so I'm asking for advice one last time.


Level 0 Stats for Jespin, Half-Elf Paladin

Strength (STR): 80
Constitution (CON): 31
Dexterity (DEX): 70
Agility (AGI): 70
Discipline (DIS): 23
Aura (AUR): 88
Logic (LOG): 93
Intuition (INT): 89
Wisdom (WIS): 91
Influence (INF): 25


Name: Jespin De'Maris Race: Half-Elf Profession: Paladin (shown as: Adventurer)
Gender: Male Age: 0 Expr: 566034 Level: 22
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 91 (20) ... 91 (20)
Constitution (CON): 52 (1) ... 52 (1)
Dexterity (DEX): 77 (18) ... 77 (18)
Agility (AGI): 77 (23) ... 77 (23)
Discipline (DIS): 45 (-7) ... 45 (-7)
Aura (AUR): 92 (21) ... 92 (21)
Logic (LOG): 95 (22) ... 95 (22)
Intuition (INT): 93 (21) ... 93 (21)
Wisdom (WIS): 98 (24) ... 98 (24)
Influence (INF): 46 (3) ... 46 (3)
Mana: 76 Silver: 52



Jespin (at level 22), your base skill bonuses, ranks and goals are:
Skill Name | Actual Actual
| Bonus Ranks Goals In-Game Time to Goal
Armor Use..........................| 148 48 48
Shield Use.........................| 148 48 48
Combat Maneuvers...................| 102 24 24
Blunt Weapons......................| 148 48 48
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 25 5 5 (30 ranks by 70)
Physical Fitness...................| 102 24 24
Harness Power......................| 96 22 22
Spiritual Lore - Blessings.........| 102 24 24(25 bless, then religion for a bit)
Survival...........................| 102 24 24 (skin/forage)
Perception.........................| 78 17 17 (forage)
Climbing...........................| 50 10 10
Swimming...........................| 50 10 10
First Aid..........................| 78 17 17 (skin)

Spell Lists
Paladin............................| 21 21 (Pick up the next spell rank halfway through levels)



My stats are set for maximum TPs while still giving me decent bonuses on the important ones for leveling. If I ever do cap him I intend to use a fixstats. Good idea, or should I just set for maximization now and gimp myself about a level and a half worth of TPs pre-cap? I'm also very slightly concerned about stat bonuses that affect forging. Krakiipedia says that Discipline, Constitution, and Strength bonuses ability to create items with forging. Does anyone know if this bonus is significant, or something that'd preclude me from being able to make perfect items?

Anyway, any last minute advice on stats or training would be appreciated if you have any to give. As far as my knowledge goes, this is a pretty good build that'll let me level with no issues all the way up. Thanks much.

[TheLastShamurai]

i wouldn't be too worried about the stat bonuses for forging/crafting.

its going to suck either way.

[thefarmer]

Edit:


Spiritual Lore - Blessings.........| 102 24 24(25 bless, then religion for a bit)


[=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=]
Spell 1630 - Judgement (JUDGEMENT) [AID #380]
Circle: Cleric

This spell takes effect immediately.

Effect:
Type: Attack

A paladin is faced with many trials throughout her life which may force her to judge the condemned. Casting this spell, the paladin calls out to her patron for aid in assisting with the punishment of the unworthy, which results in the manifestation of the deity's influence. This focus serves as a conduit through the paladin, temporarily giving her the ability to punish as she sees fit.

Judgment, a powerful spell based on Casting Strength (CS), has the ability to strike multiple enemies with damage appropriate for the patron deity, and the spell will potentially force them to kneel. A base 3 targets will be struck, with additional targets based on lore knowledge (see below). The spell is group-friendly, but not otherwise player-friendly.

Training in Spiritual Lore, Summoning increases the number of targets by one for every 50 additional skill (not ranks). For example, a paladin with 120 skill can hit 5 targets.

Notes:
Training in Spiritual Lore, Religion increases the 35% base chance that the target will be forced to kneel, if applicable, by 2% per rank, to a maximum of a 85% chance. The higher the level of the target versus the caster, the more difficult it is to force them to kneel.

[=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=]

[Moist Happenings]

Yeah that's why I'm switching to religion at 25. It won't be mana efficient for me to use judgement as an attack spell until 50 or so. By then I'll have 25 religion ranks to put things on the ground, and be started on my way to 100 bonus for Summoning.

Edit: I've got all the blessings ranks for extra shield block and DS because I don't dodge.

[thefarmer]

Yeah that's why I'm switching to religion at 25. It won't be mana efficient for me to use judgement as an attack spell until 50 or so. .

Mana efficient?

You're a paladin. There's nothing else to use your mana on other than divine strike/judgement. At 1x HP, that's more than enough mana to use judgement at 30.

Edit: CM and PF are a paladins core skills (Not Survival/first aid). A big attack, heavy armor and redux are what makes a paladin great.

[Moist Happenings]

With all the blessings ranks my defensive spells are pretty expensive. At 20 it takes me 15 minutes to spell myself up for an hour, and it's not even worth it to do it for more time than that at the moment.

By 30 I'll be closer to being worth spelling myself up before a hunt instead of during, but right now I just get out there, blast all my spells once, and still need mana to cast them all.

And even so, 90 mana at level 30 or so means 3 casts of 1630. That's not enough to make it an efficient hunting spell yet. I usually only count a spell as worth it hunting if I can get most of its mana cost back in one pulse.

Edit to add:

If I was in CoL I'd agree with you, but I stay away from symbol of mana if I can possibly help it. Prolly won't use judgement regularly during a hunt until 40 at the earliest, and my lores will be decent enough by then for it.

[thefarmer]

With all the blessings ranks my defensive spells are pretty expensive. At 20 it takes me 15 minutes to spell myself up for an hour, and it's not even worth it to do it for more time than that at the moment. By 30 I'll be closer to being worth spelling myself up before a hunt instead of during, but right now I just get out there, blast all my spells once, and still need mana to cast them all.

Why would you need to stack on an hour of spells? Just put up enough on to last a hunt. The only ones you should need to refresh during a hunt are Arm of arkati and divine shield.



And even so, 90 mana at level 30 or so means 3 casts of 1630.


Spell 1615 - Divine Strike (DSTRIKE) [AID #373]
Circle: Cleric

This spell takes effect immediately.

Effect:
Type: Attack

The Paladin calls upon the divine power of her patron to decimate her foe. When successfully cast, the target is surrounded by a damaging sacred force, and may additionally be forced to kneel. Divine Strike also forces the target into Roundtime (RT).

Notes:
Training in Spiritual Lore, Religion increases the overall chance of forcing the target to kneel by 2% per rank, with a max 50% at 25 ranks.

[=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=]



I usually only count a spell as worth it hunting if I can get most of its mana cost back in one pulse.

That's really silly.

[thefarmer]

Edit to add:

If I was in CoL I'd agree with you, but I stay away from symbol of mana if I can possibly help it. Prolly won't use judgement regularly during a hunt until 40 at the earliest, and my lores will be decent enough by then for it.

Wracking doesn't help a paladin hunt. It hurts.

[Moist Happenings]

That's what I generally do, but casting all the defensive spells I keep up during a hunt costs 85 or 90 mana to do once since I'm blessing lore heavy. 1601, 1605, 1606, 1608, 1609, 1610, 1611, 1616, 1618. They last 22 minutes each except for 1605 of course. That's enough for a powerhunt if I go out right after casting without regenning mana on a node, but for a bounty task I sometimes end up having to recast everything. In those cases if I'm using 1615, 1614, or 1630 a lot I'm SoL when I melt.

So situationally I could use 1630 as soon as I get it, but I know that more often than not I'm going to be needing my mana for other stuff on a long bounty task. As it stands, I do use 1615, but very sparingly. Only when something turtles on me and it's gonna take ten minutes to kill it. 76 mana just isn't enough right now with all the blessings lores, and I need to have those for the extra shield block if nothing else.

Edit:

Also use 1607 fairly frequently (15 mana or so) if I don't have wizard spells when I'm out.

To give ya an idea, here's my spellup list for hunting right now:

Self spellup:
Spell Casts............. Mana Duration Bonus
1606 Dauntless......... 1 6 __20:30 [+10AS]
1601 Mantle of Faith... 1 6 __20:30 [+10DS, +10STD]
1611 Patron's Blessing. 1 13 _20:30 [+17Cman]
1610 Higher Vision..... 1 15 _20:30 [+15DS]
1616 Vigor............. 1 16 _20:30 [+5CON, +16MaxHP]
1605 Arm of the Arkati. 1 5 __10:15 [+10%DF]
1609 Divine Shield..... 1 9 __20:30 [+14%Block]
1618 Guard the Meek.... 1 18 _20:30 [+18PhysDS]
Total.................. 8 88 [+10AS, +25DS, +10STD, +17Cman, +5CON, +16MaxHP, +10%DF, +14%Block, +18PhysDS]


At 30 those costs won't have changed much since I won't have more blessing lores, so 1630 might be of limited use to me right out of the chute, but not enough for me to abandon my blessing lores in favor of pumping up religion and summoning for it just yet. Keep in mind that 88 mana has a 9% chance per spell to fail, so it's often slightly higher. A lot higher if the wrong spell fails. And one last bit, three of those spells will have 1 extra mana cost when I make my 25th and last blessing rank for a while, so I'm looking at 91 mana per spellup if nothing fails. At level 30 I'll have exactly 100 mana total. It just isn't worth it for me personally to give up 5% block, 6 extra health, 10 DS, 7 extra cman ranks, and the ability to heal myself just for one spell that I'll only realistically be able to cast once or twice per hunt at level 30.