Armor and Rangers

[Morph]

A couple questions about armor and rangers.

1. How many ranks of armor use and what type of armor do rangers shoot for for when they cap.

2. If a ranger has 40 ranks of armor use then would the best armor for her be chain mail?

[Stunseed]

The more magical rangers usually stay in brig.

I think the trend of late however is that rangers are moving into chain, with some going as high as hauberk ( 110 ranks ). Augmented chain is damn close and needs only 70 ranks to accomplish.

[graysun]

A couple questions about armor and rangers.

1. How many ranks of armor use and what type of armor do rangers shoot for for when they cap.

2. If a ranger has 40 ranks of armor use then would the best armor for her be chain mail?

1. What Stun said.

2. 40 ranks allows you to wear chain mail. I am an advocate of chain-class armor on rangers.

The change to 620 last December makes it possible for a ranger to get a nice set of partial-coverage chain and grow into it. So if you find a set of padded chain mail or double chain, then you can use 620-imbued greaves/helm when your character gets older in order to negate the loss of padding typically associated with using armor accessories, while still getting the upgrade to augmented chain or hauberk.

[droit]

70 ranks for augmented chain all the way.

[Mtenda]

I'm a big advocate of having different armor options for different hunting situations. I agree with the other posters in going to 70 ranks but still keep a decent set of brig around for situational purposes. Then when you have more TP's than you know what to do with go for the 110.

[Tea & Strumpets]

I think hauberk (110 ranks) is the best armor for a ranger. I wouldn't wear any armor unless it has heavy crit padding though, because you avoid a lot of maneuver/CMAN (charge, etc.) deaths with heavy crit padding.

The only upside to wearing brig as opposed to heavier armor is the training points you save, and the easy availability of Forest Green Brig as opposed to crit padding in heavier armors.. You only "double pay" for armor training 9 or 10 times at cap (110 ranks). If you take those points and throw them into any other physical skill, there isn't as much of a benefit.

[Mtenda]

I think hauberk (110 ranks) is the best armor for a ranger. I wouldn't wear any armor unless it has heavy crit padding though, because you avoid a lot of maneuver/CMAN (charge, etc.) deaths with heavy crit padding.

The only upside to wearing brig as opposed to heavier armor is the training points you save, and the easy availability of Forest Green Brig as opposed to crit padding in heavier armors.. You only "double pay" for armor training 9 or 10 times at cap (110 ranks). If you take those points and throw them into any other physical skill, there isn't as much of a benefit.

There are other reasons to wear brig over chain. Depends on what you are hunting and how it can hurt you.

advantages of brig

1. more ability to avoid manuevers
2. more dodge DS
3. ability to add resistance from a high level ranger
4. easier to cast out of

disadvantages

1. lower CVA
2. lower crit divisor
3. less desirable damage factors

Am I missing anything?

[Tea & Strumpets]

Am I missing anything?

I'm not sure what you mean about less desirable damage factors. I don't spend a lot of time figuring out the math of the game, but I think with the better crit divisor that hauberk offers that you always take less damage/shorter stuns on an AS/DS attack in hauberk (there may be exceptions on certain bolt spells or something). I think Latrinsorm will back me up on this because he is also a huge fan of anecdotal evidence.

[ceran]

My thoughts on armor is as follows
1- Brig was good till about 50 trains, nothing hit to hard for what I hunted then.
2-Augmented chain helped with reducing damage taken when I started stronghold and the stone giants and trolls. And I noticed a little help warding spells in my augmented chain but that might just be in my head.
3- Looking to get into full hauberk by 90 trains
4- Also might be in my head but the spell hindrance seems to happen about the same as when I was in brig as in my augmented chain and I use my spells a lot for vines and call swarm to keep good crowd control.

[Mtenda]

I'm not sure what you mean about less desirable damage factors. I don't spend a lot of time figuring out the math of the game, but I think with the better crit divisor that hauberk offers that you always take less damage/shorter stuns on an AS/DS attack in hauberk (there may be exceptions on certain bolt spells or something). I think Latrinsorm will back me up on this because he is also a huge fan of anecdotal evidence.

Well, I do understand the math of the game and really don't feel like breaking down all the ins and outs of armor at this moment. You can find everything you need to know on Krakiipedia and various other readily available sites. I'm not sure if you missed my point or not but I am definitely not saying that brig is better than aug. chain or chain hauberk in general. Just that there MAY be SOME situations depending on your training, what you are hunting, and most importantly hunting tactics, where you may decide to pull that set of brig out of your locker even though have enough training to wear chain class. For example, my rangers are ambushers and thus if I am patient and use smart hunting tactics I almost never get hit. Thus negating much of the need for a high crit divisor. Also, with the defensive spells available to the ranger, there is no problem defending against warding spells regardless of the armor worn against MANy BUT NOT ALL creatures. Thus negating much of the need for a higher CVA. Manuevers favor lighter armor in some ways. Bolts favor lighter armor in some ways. Yada yada yada. My point is never say never and never say always. That is all and sorry for the grammatical errors because I'm drunk.

[zhelas]

The more magical rangers usually stay in brig.

I think the trend of late however is that rangers are moving into chain, with some going as high as hauberk ( 110 ranks ). Augmented chain is damn close and needs only 70 ranks to accomplish.

Exactly what Stunseed said.

I would add if your Ranger is an archer move them into double chain at the minimum. Broken arms = I can't shoot!

52 Trains my Ranger moved out of Brig and went to Augmented Chain. Never Regreted it.

[droit]

The biggest advantage brig has over chain class armors is the ability to have resistance added to it, which can be invaluable in certain areas. Now that Regyy is capable of imbuing 95% resistance, a decent set of brig can also be upgraded to give you near invulnerability to an element (or almost every single one of our spells...).

[thefarmer]

The change to 620 last December makes it possible for a ranger to get a nice set of partial-coverage chain and grow into it. So if you find a set of padded chain mail or double chain, then you can use 620-imbued greaves/helm when your character gets older in order to negate the loss of padding typically associated with using armor accessories, while still getting the upgrade to augmented chain or hauberk.

If you have crit padded chain torso armor and slap on some arm greaves, then you're going to get the same benefits (padding, asg class) and hinderances (spell, maneuver) as if you were wearing double chain. There is no padding lost, with or without accessories

Also.. When was 620 changed to be used with metal armor? I'd love to slap on some ranger resisted greaves with some MBP.

[Trouble]

I love brig at 99 but then again I'm a magical ranger. I use sounds on every mob and I don't hide (archer). I'll aim for hauberk after cap though.

[Izzy]

If you have crit padded chain torso armor and slap on some arm greaves, then you're going to get the same benefits (padding, asg class) and hinderances (spell, maneuver) as if you were wearing double chain. There is no padding lost, with or without accessories

Also.. When was 620 changed to be used with metal armor? I'd love to slap on some ranger resisted greaves with some MBP.

There will be padding lost, because with padded armor the whole body is padded. Any other effect will halve the padding in that area. Just because the armor doesn't cover each area with its base material doesn't mean it's not still covered. (that was a lot of negatives)

620 is still non-metal only. But you could get leather greaves and have them resisted.

My ranger sits in augmented chain at 56. I like it.

Edit: Oh, and torso chain + greaves != double chain. You lose out on AvD and CvA benefits of double chain by a few points. You're always better off going with a higher ASG than with partial + accessories.

[Mtenda]

If you have crit padded chain torso armor and slap on some arm greaves, then you're going to get the same benefits (padding, asg class) and hinderances (spell, maneuver) as if you were wearing double chain. There is no padding lost, with or without accessories

Also.. When was 620 changed to be used with metal armor? I'd love to slap on some ranger resisted greaves with some MBP.

I didn't think 620 was changed in that way. The way I always understood it was that you could only have resistance benefits added via accessories to chain or plate class armor if those accessories' properties were permanent.

[Mtenda]

There will be padding lost, because with padded armor the whole body is padded. Any other effect will halve the padding in that area. Just because the armor doesn't cover each area with its base material doesn't mean it's not still covered. (that was a lot of negatives)

620 is still non-metal only. But you could get leather greaves and have them resisted.

My ranger sits in augmented chain at 56. I like it.

Edit: Oh, and torso chain + greaves != double chain. You lose out on AvD and CvA benefits of double chain by a few points. You're always better off going with a higher ASG than with partial + accessories.

Padding does not get halved when you have padding plus resistance. Resistance is not considered to be in the same ability slot as flares, padding, weighting, etc.

[thefarmer]

There will be padding lost, because with padded armor the whole body is padded. Any other effect will halve the padding in that area. Just because the armor doesn't cover each area with its base material doesn't mean it's not still covered. (that was a lot of negatives)

620 is still non-metal only. But you could get leather greaves and have them resisted.


Edit: Oh, and torso chain + greaves != double chain. You lose out on AvD and CvA benefits of double chain by a few points. You're always better off going with a higher ASG than with partial + accessories.

Edit: Actually.. What I meant by padding not being lost was for normal greaves with torso armor (the entire body has padding, the DF is the only difference between torso and the rest of the body) Padding is halved if (perma) resistant armor pieces are layered over. Whether or not this applies to ranger resistance, I don't know as I've never used it before.

On to 620 and metal armor, unless something has changed recently, leather greaves on chain and up.. still count as metal and won't work.

And you're right. You will loose a few points of AvD and CvA, but other than those two fairly minor differences, it functions the same.

[Mtenda]

This is what Krakiipedia says about the updates to 620.

620 resistance benefits for armor accessories will only apply when used in conjunction with rigid leather torso armor or below -- no benefit will be garnered from wearing them with chain or plate class torso armor. However, armor accessories imbued with resistance via 620 will also not cause the typical reduction in effective padding when worn with crit or damage padded chain or plate class torso armors, while the reduction will still apply when worn with rigid leather torso armor or below.

[Mtenda]

So I guess padding is halved when using resistant accessories but not if using resistant armor + padded accessories?

[thefarmer]

I take that to mean:

HCP brig+ 620 leg greaves=1/2 padding on legs w/ 620 resistance

But

hcp fullplate+620 leg greaves=full padding w/nothing

Edit: blargh. read it again. What's the point of the last line? If you don't get any 620 benefit for torso chain and up, why bother wearing it?

[graysun]

What's the point of the last line?

The full padding part.

[thefarmer]

The full padding part.

What full padding part?

[graysun]

What full padding part?

I didn't read the post correctly - missed the part about full plate.