Two years without war. [Archive] - The Gemstone IV Players' Corner

Moist Happenings

09-25-2008, 02:07 AM

I just looked at the date on my multi-function timekeeping device next to all the little colorful buttons on my start bar, and noticed that tomorrow will mark two years since the disarmament was completed.

There were many who were incredibly skeptical of the success of these plans, and for good reason. Most thought it would be like cats and dogs living together: total anarchy. However, the past two years have been nothing but progress. Power sharing is going into effect soon, and I believe, and sincerely hope that soon we can look back and say that September 26, 2005 heralded in a new era of peace and prosperity for the people who have fought so long, and so hard for it.

I just felt like sharing my happiness with you all here, and wanted to open the floor to any ideas, positive or negative, regarding the influence that the disarmament has had or will have going forward.

For those of you who are confused:
http://saoirse32.blogsome.com/2005/09/26/ira-disarms/

Ni ceart go cur le cheile - There is no strength without unity.

Warriorbird

09-25-2008, 02:35 AM

Ireland's doing pretty damn well. I'm glad. I think intelligent recent economic policies have helped. Scotland really sort of collapsed in that area.

Nieninque

09-25-2008, 02:36 AM

It's good that terrorism became unfashionable otherwise the Americans would probably still be financing the IRA

Moist Happenings

09-25-2008, 02:45 AM

It's good that terrorism became unfashionable otherwise the Americans would probably still be financing the IRA

Certain parts of the IRA have done some pretty despicable things. However, the vast majority of IRA activity was no more an act of terrorism than we would consider Viet Cong activity during the "police action" of Vietnam.

It was a long-fought war that eventually was realized to be unwinnable at present. Compromises had to be made on both sides, and for the most part they are all leaning in the right direction.

Britain just had more success invading Ireland than we did Vietnam. If we had won and left occupation forces there, I'm sure we'd be calling the VC terrorists as well, instead of an army of men who fought for the freedom of their country, and refused to be conquered.

Sean of the Thread

09-25-2008, 02:48 AM

It's good that terrorism became unfashionable otherwise the Americans would probably still be financing the IRA

You're lucky you're not on aim atm.

Nieninque

09-25-2008, 02:53 AM

Certain parts of the IRA have done some pretty despicable things. However, the vast majority of IRA activity was no more an act of terrorism than we would consider Viet Cong activity during the "police action" of Vietnam.

Spoken like someone who has no fucking idea.
Grats.

Nieninque

09-25-2008, 02:55 AM

You're lucky you're not on aim atm.

Ah yeah...re-formatted my computer. Need to reinstall AIM at the moment.

Wasnt a dig at America per se, moreso recognition that the vast majority of IRA funding (outside of their own "fundraising" efforts) came from across the Atlantic, from people like Neff who had this fucked up vision of the IRA as freedom fighters.

Warriorbird

09-25-2008, 02:56 AM

I dunno, Nein, I'd expect you to distinguish between IRA and PIRA.

Moist Happenings

09-25-2008, 02:57 AM

Spoken like someone who has no fucking idea.
Grats.

I would like to preface this by saying that I have been Sinn Fein for several years, and have followed IRA (and INA) activity to the best of my ability as closely as possible.

With that said, if you have a counterpoint or a disagreement with something I've written, give me some basis for an argument against it. I consider myself to be as open minded as the next person, and am willing to hear all sides of an argument before making my informed decisions.

Don't just flame me. All that will make me do in the end is disregard anything further you have to say.

Edited to add the bit about the INA.

Nieninque

09-25-2008, 03:04 AM

I dunno, Nein, I'd expect you to distinguish between IRA and PIRA.

In the way that Gerry Adams had nothing to do with the murdering fucks that shared the same acronym as he used? Right...

Nieninque

09-25-2008, 03:06 AM

I would like to preface this by saying that I have been Sinn Fein for several years, and have followed IRA (and INA) activity to the best of my ability as closely as possible.

My point entirely.

Stupid fucking Americans* and their obsession with their Irish roots and the "revolution".

* - not all Americans, just the stupid ones.

Warriorbird

09-25-2008, 03:07 AM

The Irish didn't have Gandhi. Their arguments certainly weren't without merit though.

Nieninque

09-25-2008, 03:08 AM

Their methods were.

Nieninque

09-25-2008, 03:08 AM

I would like to preface this by saying that I have been Sinn Fein for several years, and have followed IRA (and INA) activity to the best of my ability as closely as possible.

With that said, if you have a counterpoint or a disagreement with something I've written, give me some basis for an argument against it. I consider myself to be as open minded as the next person, and am willing to hear all sides of an argument before making my informed decisions.

Don't just flame me. All that will make me do in the end is disregard anything further you have to say.

Edited to add the bit about the INA.

I'm assuming that, by INA, you mean INLA, which further proves my point.

Sean of the Thread

09-25-2008, 03:10 AM

I want to fight Nien.

In a baby oil cage match

Nieninque

09-25-2008, 03:15 AM

I would like to preface this by saying that I have been Sinn Fein for several years

You...are...an...American.
You...live...in...America.
You are a wannabe Sinn Fein member.
You have no fucking clue what it was or is like to live under the auspices of the IRA, the INLA or their loyalist counterparts. Fuck off and STFU with your pathetic dreams of the good fight. The IRA were nothing but murdering, bullying drug-dealing bastards who may very well have started out with an ideal to fight for, but very quickly forgot that ideal and continued to fight for self-interest and self-preservation, long after the ordinary people of Northern Ireland were in any way interested in the "struggle".

Gerry Adams is a cunt. Always has been. Always will be.
I'm glad the fighting has stopped, but it in no way makes any of what the IRA did a good or a just struggle.

Moist Happenings

09-25-2008, 03:17 AM

My point entirely.

Stupid fucking Americans* and their obsession with their Irish roots and the "revolution".

* - not all Americans, just the stupid ones.

So kind of you to assume that I wouldn't have any basis in my beliefs, or reason. I'm not just some kid who heard a story about the valiant heroes fighting for their homeland against the evil British. I'm intelligent enough to realize that any such notion has been doctored at best, and entirely fabricated at worst.

I have been to Belfast several times, and it's my intention to move there in the not-too-distant future. And as you'll note, I never claimed the IRA hadn't committed atrocities. In fact, I'd wager some of those would make my top ten list of all time worst.

All I'm asking is that you wouldn't judge the many by the actions of the few. There are a lot of good-hearted people in Sinn Fein, and in the IRA who have made phenomenal progress towards peace. Gerry Adams is among them, and yes, I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that he played a part in a lot of the military actions.

What you're failing to grasp, I think, is that you can find similarities to such things in a lot of Political leaders. Well respected, and well liked political leaders that might surprise you, past and present.

"You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with just a kind word."

Without IRA action in the past (And I am in no way defending any action against non military sources, especially religiously based scapegoating specifically regarding the Protestants/Catholics), then there would have been absolutely no manner of progress at all towards unity, shared power, and the betterment of Northern Ireland. It would have simply remained a vassal state of Britain with no autonomy.

Again, I'm not defending a lot of the terrorist acts committed. Just saying that as a whole, progress and peace are being achieved, which would not otherwise have happened to the extent that they are today.

Edit: Spelling.

Moist Happenings

09-25-2008, 03:21 AM

I'm assuming that, by INA, you mean INLA, which further proves my point.

No. I meant the INA. The Irish Northern Aid.

Edit: Well all my other posts have edits, so I figured I'd bat a thousand.

Moist Happenings

09-25-2008, 03:32 AM

You...are...an...American.
You...live...in...America.
You are a wannabe Sinn Fein member.
You have no fucking clue what it was or is like to live under the auspices of the IRA, the INLA or their loyalist counterparts. Fuck off and STFU with your pathetic dreams of the good fight. The IRA were nothing but murdering, bullying drug-dealing bastards who may very well have started out with an ideal to fight for, but very quickly forgot that ideal and continued to fight for self-interest and self-preservation, long after the ordinary people of Northern Ireland were in any way interested in the "struggle".

Gerry Adams is a cunt. Always has been. Always will be.
I'm glad the fighting has stopped, but it in no way makes any of what the IRA did a good or a just struggle.

The more I read your posts Nieninque, the more it just seems the only point you're arguing is that I'm an American.

I concede. I am in fact an American. That does not mean however that I have no semblance of a clue what I'm talking about or what I believe in.

Granted, I have not had as good a view of events as others who have lived through it from a first person perspective, but the sources of my reasoning have been credible, and first hand. Furthermore, I feel I've done enough research into the matter to at least have my opinion counted as credible enough not to be shot down in the manner you have.

I propose we agree to disagree, and end this thread on a positive note.

I created it to celebrate continued peace. That's how I want to end it.

Edit: I added a "d" onto have.

Edit again to add:

And Nienique, I honestly would love to hear your reasonings for your viewpoints. Maybe my own are in fact skewed enough for you to have reacted the way you did. I don't mean this in a flaming fashion, but all I've gotten from you so far is "Gerry Adams is a cunt." and "You are an American so you don't know what the fuck you're talking about". If you really do have reasonings for feeling the way you do, please, PM me and let me know what they are. I pride myself on being informed about something before I talk about it. I feel I am. You obviously feel that I am not. I'm not saying for sure that I'll agree with what you have to say. Just saying that I'd like to hear it.

Nieninque

09-25-2008, 03:46 AM

So kind of you to assume that I wouldn't have any basis in my beliefs, or reason. I'm not just some kid who heard a story about the valiant heroes fighting for their homeland against the evil British. I'm intelligent enough to realize that any such notion has been doctored at best, and entirely fabricated at worst.

And yet you still sign up to it.

I have been to Belfast several times, and it's my intention to move there in the not-too-distant future.

Holy shit! Why didn't you say? If you had said you planned to move there at some point in the future, that would have negated all the points I was disagreeing with you on.

Again, you have no clue. The fact that you have visited Belfast means shit. The fact that you intend to move there means shit. You have no way of experiencing what it was like to live there for the past 25 years. You have no way of experiencing the oppression, the bullying and the murder that went on in the name of "the struggle", despite your assertions that you do.

And as you'll note, I never claimed the IRA hadn't committed atrocities. In fact, I'd wager some of those would make my top ten list of all time worst.

And yet you still call Gerry Adams a man of acclaim.

All I'm asking is that you wouldn't judge the many by the actions of the few. There are a lot of good-hearted people in Sinn Fein, and in the IRA who have made phenomenal progress towards peace. Gerry Adams is among them, and yes, I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that he played a part in a lot of the military actions.

a) I judge people by the actions of the organisations they affiliate to, should that's what they choose to do. I judge members of the IRA according to the actions of the IRA. I judge members of Sinn Fein (as in the "political" wing of the IRA as was) according to the actions of the IRA. I judge members of Al Quaida according to the actions of Al Quaida. If it walks like a duck...

b) Gerry Adams has hampered that peace process in Northern Ireland far more than he has aided it. He conceded little and took the gains that others gave by way of their concessions, benefitting from the rights and liberty that he refused to afford to other people. He is a disgrace.

What you're failing to grasp, I think, is that you can find similarities to such things in a lot of Political leaders. Well respected, and well liked political leaders that might surprise you, past and present.

Like Bin Laden, right?

"You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with just a kind word."

Or a passenger plane full of innocent people?

Without IRA action in the past (And I am in no way defending any action against non military sources, especially religiously based scapegoating specifically regarding the Protestants/Catholics), then there would have been absolutely no manner of progress at all towards unity, shared power, and the betterment of Northern Ireland. It would have simply remained a vassal state of Britain with no autonomy.

a) You cannot possible know what would have come to pass, had there been no terrorism in Ireland.
b) I like the way you are an apologist for atrocities against non-military targets, somehow implying that atrocities against military targets are fine and dandy. Does that mean that US troops in Afghanistan are fair game for target practice? Does that mean you see the insurgent activities in Iraq as justifiable campaigns of freedom fighters? I am genuinely curious here, because it really looks like you have double standards.

Again, I'm not defending a lot of the terrorist acts committed.

Just some of them?

Just saying that as a whole, progress and peace are being achieved, which would not otherwise have happened to the extent that they are today.

Wait a second. After 25 years, the IRA give up their violent acts and they are somehow to be applauded for achieving peace? IT WAS THEIR VIOLENCE THAT HAS STOPPED.

That's like Sean2 saying "I used to stick my dick in a blender, but I dont do it any more" and expecting some kind of acclaim.

It was fucking stupid in the first place.

Nieninque

09-25-2008, 03:50 AM

The more I read your posts Nieninque, the more it just seems the only point you're arguing is that I'm an American.

Moreso that you are a fantasist about the violence perpetrated by murdering bastards in the name of a "great struggle".

The peace that has now been achieved is the peace from the violence of the people whose arses you are kissing and whom ignorant fuckers like you funded during their 25 year reign of terror.

Peace is good. Peace in NI is great. The IRA deserve no respect for achieving that peace as it was they that were the perpetrators of the majority of the violence.

And fuck you and your ignorant positive notes.

Nieninque

09-25-2008, 03:56 AM

And Nienique, I honestly would love to hear your reasonings for your viewpoints. Maybe my own are in fact skewed enough for you to have reacted the way you did. I don't mean this in a flaming fashion, but all I've gotten from you so far is "Gerry Adams is a cunt." and "You are an American so you don't know what the fuck you're talking about". If you really do have reasonings for feeling the way you do, please, PM me and let me know what they are. I pride myself on being informed about something before I talk about it. I feel I am. You obviously feel that I am not. I'm not saying for sure that I'll agree with what you have to say. Just saying that I'd like to hear it.

I don't do forums discussions by PM.
You started this thread. Have the balls to stand by your viewpoints or dont post threads about things you might get shot down on.
The IRA are murdering scumbags. People who sympathise with the IRA tend to be murdering scumbags themselves, or naive Americans who really dont know what they are talking about.
I've known people killed by the IRA. I have lived under the impact of their "cause". I have zero tolerance for ignorant fuckers who believe it was a just and righteous cause and the means justified the end, because, quite frankly it didn't.
Furthermore, when the US are mounting this phenomenal war on terror, invading...erm...liberating countries from the grip of murdering people who do the kind of stuff the IRA did, it's pretty fucking hypocritical of you to be singing the praises of cunts like the IRA.
So yeah, fuck off.

Moist Happenings

09-25-2008, 04:04 AM

And yet you still sign up to it.

I wouldn't neglect to sign up for the World Cup simply because Britain used to maim and murder to subjugate its vassal states and colonies.

Like Bin Laden, right?

Like FDR, when he negotiated with Stalin for an alliance in WWII that didn't involve Britain.

b) I like the way you are an apologist for atrocities against non-military targets, somehow implying that atrocities against military targets are fine and dandy. Does that mean that US troops in Afghanistan are fair game for target practice? Does that mean you see the insurgent activities in Iraq as justifiable campaigns of freedom fighters? I am genuinely curious here, because it really looks like you have double standards.

In a way, yes, I absolutely do see insurgent activities in Iraq as justifiable campaigns of freedom fighters. Put yourself in the shoes of a citizen of a nation that's been invaded. I'm going to assume that you're British from your avatar, forgive me if I'm wrong. Say you're a citizen of London, though. Maybe, I dunno, Germany comes in and says "Okay old guys are out. You're gonna listen to Hitler now, K?". Would you be able to justify fighting against that oppression? Of course you would. For as long as it took.

Am I saying it was wrong of us to topple Iraq's political system? Okay.. this can get into a really long description so I'm going to truncate it to a: No. However, there are a large number of people in Iraq who felt that the current system worked fine, and they would fight against the people who changed it to the death.

When Britain took Northern Ireland though, they didn't do it because Ireland's political leaders were committing atrocities and doing things that were against the best interests of its citizens. They did it because they were Britain, and duh, they own Ireland, and America, and Africa, and some islands in Eastern Asia, and a large number of other places.

The argument boils down to this: People should know when they're conquered.

Put yourselves in the shoes of others. Would you know? Would you accept?

Wait a second. After 25 years, the IRA give up their violent acts and they are somehow to be applauded for achieving peace? IT WAS THEIR VIOLENCE THAT HAS STOPPED.

Britain was applauded when they pulled out of North Africa weren't they? America will undoubtedly be applauded when they pull out of Iraq. I hate to say it, but raw violence has solved more problems on this Earth than we care to admit. I'll be the first to say that it shouldn't be that way, but until we evolve as a species, that's how the cookie crumbles.

I firmly believe that without military action in Northern Ireland, we would be in a worse place than we are today. I'll agree though that it carried on too long, and collected far too many innocent lives in the process, and that certain segments of the organization took things way, way too far.

Gelston

09-25-2008, 04:08 AM

You use way too many movie quotes.

Moist Happenings

09-25-2008, 04:09 AM

And one more bit.

I did not start this thread to applaud the IRA for laying down arms. I apologize if I gave that impression, though my original post I feel is clear enough. It is obvious my viewpoints on the matter, and that I do support the IRA. However:

I created this thread to support continued peace between BOTH nations.

Moist Happenings

09-25-2008, 04:10 AM

You use way too many movie quotes.

Argument denied. I use exactly the required amount of movie quotes. :P

Warriorbird

09-25-2008, 04:13 AM

Moist Happenings

09-25-2008, 04:16 AM

I don't think the original IRA's ideals were that problematic. They sadly didn't have the smarts that Gandhi did towards achieving their goals. Violence and stupidity tends to breed more violence and stupidity and they inspired a whole lot of it. It sort of horrified me when I moved down to Louisiana and I saw the puzzling degree of IRA boosterism that still goes on.

I'm glad that Ireland has peace and prosperity right now. I wish America did too.

I agree. Gandhi was a revolutionary. Ahead of his time. It's unfortunate that in the end, his efforts ended with the loss of his life. It really speaks to how unevolved we are that in the end, he died because people just couldn't get over their differences, and ended up killing each other again.

Edited to add:

I'll put one last note here, and I intend for it to be my last reply to this thread. Yeah, Warriorbird, I've noticed the same sort of blind sentiment and support in New Jersey, so I'm really not surprised that Nieninque and possibly others would assume I was just more of that (and probably still do). I feel I've got an adequate enough knowledge about the subject to put my support in it, and speak on it. I don't claim to be the most knowledgeable person on it, nor do I believe I have the same knowledge as anyone who has lived in it or is living in it, but knowledgeable enough to form an opinion. It is for that reason though that I offer once again that Nieninque (or anyone) can feel free to PM me as much as you like to tell me your personal experiences and reasons for your views, because the more I know, the better off I will be. Again, I can't promise it will change my standpoint, but I would rather know your opinion than not. The reason I request it in a PM is because I created the thread to celebrate the peace process; not argue the merit or lack thereof of the organizations involved in it. As such, I really would rather not argue it anymore in here.

Thanks for all your replies to it, and Nieninque, I honestly can see your side of things. All I ask is that you try to see mine without jumping to the conclusion that I'm just an ignorant American wanting to "fight the good fight" before you start.

Nieninque

09-25-2008, 04:38 AM

I firmly believe that without military action in Northern Ireland, we would be in a worse place than we are today.

And that's where you continue to make yourself look stupid.
It wasn't military action.
It was terrorism.
Nothing more. Nothing less.

As far as jumping to conclusions, my opinion of you and your viewpoint has been based entirely on your posts:

"the vast majority of IRA activity was no more an act of terrorism than we would consider Viet Cong activity during the "police action" of Vietnam."

"It was a long-fought war"

"I have been to Belfast several times"

"I'm not defending a lot of the terrorist acts committed"

"I do support the IRA"

Nieninque

09-25-2008, 08:08 AM

No. I meant the INA. The Irish Northern Aid.

Which would be known as NORAID. Further emphasising my point that you are some stupid little American who has read a couple of pamphlets about the troubles in Ireland, maybe heard a couple of stories from some Irish people and decided that he has a clue.

You dont.

Nieninque

09-25-2008, 08:11 AM

Thanks for all your replies to it, and Nieninque, I honestly can see your side of things. All I ask is that you try to see mine without jumping to the conclusion that I'm just an ignorant American wanting to "fight the good fight" before you start.

You are simply living up to the stereotype of stupid Americans with Irish ancestors who had any misconception that anything that was happening in NI was anything other than terrorism.

Kind of ironic that attacks on your country fucked up your overt support for terrorism elsewhere.

Wanker.

AnticorRifling

09-25-2008, 09:07 AM

Neff quick bring up the Boston Tea Party it's your only hope!

Sean of the Thread

09-25-2008, 11:31 AM

Lol and Wayne delivers once again.

Moist Happenings

09-25-2008, 11:45 AM

Which would be known as NORAID. Further emphasising my point that you are some stupid little American who has read a couple of pamphlets about the troubles in Ireland, maybe heard a couple of stories from some Irish people and decided that he has a clue.

You dont.

Yes. It's also known as NORAID. INA is also an accepted vernacular.

http://www.inac.org/

Attack me personally all you like here. I'm not getting drawn back into this argument.

Nieninque

09-25-2008, 12:01 PM

Yes. It's also known as NORAID. INA is also an accepted vernacular.

http://www.inac.org/

Attack me personally all you like here. I'm not getting drawn back into this argument.

Would that be because you cant fucking win?

The organization's former leader, Martin Galvin, is now a supporter of the 32 County Sovereignty Movement, an organization which rejects the Northern Ireland peace process and has been described as the political wing of the Real IRA. The 32 County Sovereignty Movement and the Real IRA are illegal organisations in the Republic of Ireland and are both designated as terrorist organisations in the United Kingdom and the United States.

People like you are garbage. You are no better than the stupid little muslim kids who think they are freedom fighters making home-made bombs out of fireworks in their bedroom.

NocturnalRob

09-25-2008, 12:18 PM

Neff, back away from the keyboard...slowly...keep eye contact...make yourself as big as possible

Nieninque

09-25-2008, 12:25 PM

Feast your eyes on this Mr "I SUPPORT TEH IRA!1111"

http://www.iraatrocities.fsnet.co.uk/claudy.htm
http://www.iraatrocities.fsnet.co.uk/lamon.htm
http://www.iraatrocities.fsnet.co.uk/warrenpoint.htm
http://www.iraatrocities.fsnet.co.uk/tullyvallen.htm
http://www.iraatrocities.fsnet.co.uk/bloodyfriday.htm
http://www.iraatrocities.fsnet.co.uk/images/bf6.jpg (it's ok, they are freedom fighters after legitimate military targets)
http://www.iraatrocities.fsnet.co.uk/omagh.htm 29 civilian deaths.
http://www.iraatrocities.fsnet.co.uk/shankill.htm
http://www.iraatrocities.fsnet.co.uk/enniskillen.htm
http://www.iraatrocities.fsnet.co.uk/kingsmill.htm

Freedom fighters my arse.
Nasty cowardly murdering terrorists.
And you are a delusional little boy.

Sean of the Thread

09-25-2008, 12:27 PM

Mighty Nikkisaurus

09-25-2008, 12:28 PM

I don't get how anyone who's familiar with attacks the IRA have made can maintain that they're not a terrorist organization.

Freedom fighters my arse.
Nasty cowardly murdering terrorists.

+1

They targeted and slaughtered innocent civilians, and did so knowingly and willfully.

Sean of the Thread

09-25-2008, 12:28 PM

It's GOD's work.. who are you to question it?

/flee

Nieninque

09-25-2008, 12:31 PM

I didn't want to say anything but I was wearing an IRISH shirt when I read the first post. :/

I use it as an undershirt I don't go sporting it around and yes I do wear it to bed rofl.

Immediate family.

Sean ME!
Kelsey
Caitlin
Cory Glenn
Colleen
Glenn

P.s. Sean is the best on the list.

Most Irish people hate the IRA and the other paramilitary organisations that they spawned. Most Irish people are glad there is peace and hope that it is a lasting peace. The people that are the most rabid about the "revolution" are not actually Irish, they are American.

Moist Happenings

09-25-2008, 12:33 PM

Would that be because you cant fucking win?

It would be because I am trying to have a rational, issue-minded debate with a fundamentalist lunatic with a predisposition that I have no grasp of what I'm talking about and have only decided to base my decision upon a misplaced sense of valor coupled with American stupidity. I've made every effort to keep this a civil debate about the issues. At every turn I've been met with slung mud and a lot of "You stupid fucking American" without a lot of rational viewpoints to back it up. Thanks Obama. So I'm done trying to be nice to you. It's apparent that you have no intention of trying to let me in on what you obviously know that I am so clueless about.

Now let me sum up all the points you've made thus far in your entirely compelling argument against my standpoint:

"Spoken like someone who has no fucking idea. Grats."
I requested clarification so I could get your input and possibly alter my own viewpoint. I got:

"Stupid fucking Americans* and their obsession with their Irish roots and the "revolution"."
I never stated that I had Irish roots, nor did I state my support was based on some notion of a revolution.

"You...are...an...American.
You...live...in...America.
You are a wannabe Sinn Fein member."
Thanks. Heard the part where you said I was an American earlier and had no idea about anything since I'm an American. Still waiting for you to give me some bit of information that might sway my opinion instead of just a personal attack

"Again, you have no clue."
Give me a clue, please.

"I judge people by the actions of the organisations they affiliate to, should that's what they choose to do."
You must hate your own government. Damn. Just about every government on the planet actually. Along with white people, black people, Jews, Christians, and Muslims. Keep lumping in every event with the stereotype to which it belongs. I'm sure it'll work out great for you.

"Like Bin Laden, right?"
"Or a passenger plane full of innocent people?"
To paraphrase someone who I have the UTMOST respect for: You are BRITISH. You live in BRITAIN. How the FUCK could you possibly form an opinion on something that happened 3000 miles away from you in a country you don't live in? JESUS FUCKING CHRIST what the fuck is wrong with you? How dare you think you're knowledgeable enough to form an opinion.
(Yes. Sarcasm. Possibly Sarchasm. Time will tell)

"Moreso that you are a fantasist about the violence perpetrated by murdering bastards in the name of a "great struggle"."
It's one thing to twist words and draw conclusions based on something I might have posted. Show me where I said anything like this, and I'll concede this one.

"Furthermore, when the US are mounting this phenomenal war on terror, invading...erm...liberating countries from the grip of murdering people who do the kind of stuff the IRA did, it's pretty fucking hypocritical of you to be singing the praises of cunts like the IRA."
I'm sorry. As was stated before, you are not American. You are not allowed to have a viewpoint on this.

"Wanker."
Not usually. You offering to help me out?

"People like you are garbage."
Didn't we have this discussion about stereotyping already?

In conclusion I feel it would be appropriate for me to at least make an attempt to live up to the stereotype you have so aptly labeled me with and say this in summation: Up the Provos, you fuckin' bitch. I hope somebody shoves a stick of dynamite up your ass and lights it.

Edit: Broken Quote.

Sean of the Thread

09-25-2008, 12:36 PM

They're not bombing my city so they can fuck off. I'm a self-centered myopic American. (whose ancestors happen to come from Ireland and they say the IRA can fuck off too because they're dead)

I feel the same about the IRA as I would about any active American terror group. They can all fuck off and eat a cockmeat sammich.

Mighty Nikkisaurus

09-25-2008, 12:37 PM

I'm not Irish but I had a teacher who I was very close to (she was a mentor of sorts) who's husband got both of his legs blown off and was blinded by an IRA attack while they were on their honeymoon.

The idea that the IRA is not clearly a terrorist organization is laughable-- there's proof that they target civilians and unscrupulously murdered innocent people to try to achieve on their ends. You know, creating terror to try to aid your cause.. terrorists.

Some Rogue

09-25-2008, 12:52 PM

Both sides were far from innocent though...

which doesn't make them right.

Nieninque

09-25-2008, 12:56 PM

It would be because I am trying to have a rational, issue-minded debate with a fundamentalist lunatic with a predisposition that I have no grasp of what I'm talking about and have only decided to base my decision upon a misplaced sense of valor coupled with American stupidity.

What rational, issue-minded debate have you started? All I see is someone saying "HEY GUSY! ISNT IT GRATE WE HAVE PEESE IN ILAND NOW. OL GERY ADUMS IS A GRATE GUY!!"

I have no idea why you think the IRA are a good thing. I can't see why anyone would think that anything that happened post 1969 at the hands of those bastards was anything like a good thing. They are terrorists. They killed indiscriminately to instill fear into the general populace as a means to obtain a political end. That, my stupid American wannabe Sinn Fein boy, is a terrorist.
If there is another reason why you would be supporting a terrorist organisation, please educate me. I'm all for learning new things.

I've made every effort to keep this a civil debate about the issues.

Bullshit. You've made every effort to avoid any debate. How many times have you posted your last post in this thread and asked for PMs?

At every turn I've been met with slung mud and a lot of "You stupid fucking American" without a lot of rational viewpoints to back it up. Thanks Obama. So I'm done trying to be nice to you. It's apparent that you have no intention of trying to let me in on what you obviously know that I am so clueless about.

I posted a bunch of links to the handiwork of your little fanboiz. They are thugs that terrorised neighbourhoods, communities and countries. They operated organised crime rackets to generate funds for their activities. They murdered in the name of a cause that they couldnt begin to tell you about and they were hated, by Protestant and Catholics alike.
You have yet to say why you think they are such a great bunch of guys and which of the atrocities that they carried out, you think were a good thing (given the fact that you said you dont defend a lot of the ones they carried out - start defending the ones you agree with).

Now let me sum up all the points you've made thus far in your entirely compelling argument against my standpoint:

"Spoken like someone who has no fucking idea. Grats."
I requested clarification so I could get your input and possibly alter my own viewpoint. I got:

"Stupid fucking Americans* and their obsession with their Irish roots and the "revolution"."

You know, there were five posts of mine between your question there and your next post. If you couldn't pick out the gist of my beliefs from that, there are some reading comprehension issues you need to have addressed.

I never stated that I had Irish roots, nor did I state my support was based on some notion of a revolution.

I wholeheartedly accept that I made a huge assumption in that statement. I have to admit to be absolutely lost as to what other reason anyone would possibly have to support a terrorist organisation in a country they have no links with. Mea culpa.

"I judge people by the actions of the organisations they affiliate to, should that's what they choose to do."
You must hate your own government. Damn. Just about every government on the planet actually.

Not far from it, to be honest...however, I hold people accountable for the actions for which they have had some impact/input. For instance, if people profess to be part of the IRA, I will judge them for the actions of the IRA. I wont judge all Americans, for instance, by the actions of Bush, nor will I judge them by your lack of intellect. If they contribute(d) to NORAID, I shall judge them for that.

Along with white people, black people, Jews, Christians, and Muslims.

If you cant see the difference between the IRA and Jews, I pity you.

Keep lumping in every event with the stereotype to which it belongs. I'm sure it'll work out great for you.

"Like Bin Laden, right?"
"Or a passenger plane full of innocent people?"
To paraphrase someone who I have the UTMOST respect for: You are BRITISH. You live in BRITAIN. How the FUCK could you possibly form an opinion on something that happened 3000 miles away from you in a country you don't live in? JESUS FUCKING CHRIST what the fuck is wrong with you? How dare you think you're knowledgeable enough to form an opinion.
(Yes. Sarcasm. Possibly Sarchasm. Time will tell)

Hand on, you attempted to justify the atrocities of the IRA by saying "
"You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with just a kind word." Does that also apply to what Al Quaida did on 9/11? Or am I not allowed to make comparisons with other terrorist organisations?

"Moreso that you are a fantasist about the violence perpetrated by murdering bastards in the name of a "great struggle"."
It's one thing to twist words and draw conclusions based on something I might have posted. Show me where I said anything like this, and I'll concede this one.

"I do support the IRA."

Nieninque

09-25-2008, 12:58 PM

Both sides were far from innocent though...

which doesn't make them right.

If you mean there were Loyalist paramilitary organisations that did the same shit the IRA did, you would be correct. They were as equally deplorable.

Whimsi

09-25-2008, 01:04 PM

"Like Bin Laden, right?"
"Or a passenger plane full of innocent people?"
To paraphrase someone who I have the UTMOST respect for: You are BRITISH. You live in BRITAIN. How the FUCK could you possibly form an opinion on something that happened 3000 miles away from you in a country you don't live in? JESUS FUCKING CHRIST what the fuck is wrong with you? How dare you think you're knowledgeable enough to form an opinion.

I agree with most of her positions on the IRA but this did bother me. Geographical distance has never stopped her from forming opinions about America. It's a bad argument.

Nieninque

09-25-2008, 01:08 PM

I agree with most of her positions on the IRA but this did bother me. Geographical distance has never stopped her from forming opinions about America. It's a bad argument.

Like?
I cant think of a time I have ever professed to know the ins and outs of life in America. I cant think of a time I have ever subscribed to any particular point of view about America, to be honest. Give me an example.

And to clarify, Im not saying he cant have an opinion on Northern Ireland because he is from America, I am saying he has no clue what it was like during the time those dirty bastards were murdering people because as an American (and apparently quite a young one) there is no way he could possibly have the experience to know anything other than the sensationalist bollocks he would hear from whatever comic he is getting his info from. That is most clearly demonstrated by his support for the IRA, Adams and NORAID.

Moist Happenings

09-25-2008, 01:10 PM

What rational, issue-minded debate have you started? All I see is someone saying "HEY GUSY! ISNT IT GRATE WE HAVE PEESE IN ILAND NOW. OL GERY ADUMS IS A GRATE GUY!!"
You're right. I apologize. You started the debate. I just tried to keep the thread on topic.

Bullshit. You've made every effort to avoid any debate. How many times have you posted your last post in this thread and asked for PMs?

Guilty. I wanted this thread to go down the line of its intended purpose.

You have yet to say why you think they are such a great bunch of guys and which of the atrocities that they carried out, you think were a good thing (given the fact that you said you dont defend a lot of the ones they carried out - start defending the ones you agree with).

I supported any action against British Military installations and personnel. There were plenty. I did not support any action against innocent civilians or civilian structures. That is where it crosses the line between war and terrorism. And you are absolutely right that the IRA carried out a large number of attacks on these types of targets.

You know, there were five posts of mine between your question there and your next post. If you couldn't pick out the gist of my beliefs from that, there are some reading comprehension issues you need to have addressed.

You're right. I do apologize for omitting those, but I had already responded to them with my own posts, and you did make some valid points there. I didn't want the post to be 5 pages long, but I will agree that you have said a few things that did support your standpoint. I apologize for stating that you didn't say any at all.

Not far from it, to be honest...however, I hold people accountable for the actions for which they have had some impact/input. For instance, if people profess to be part of the IRA, I will judge them for the actions of the IRA. I wont judge all Americans, for instance, by the actions of Bush, nor will I judge them by your lack of intellect. If they contribute(d) to NORAID, I shall judge them for that.

I can accept this answer. You and I just have a difference of opinion regarding IRA activities on the whole. As I said before, I support some, and I don't support others.

If you cant see the difference between the IRA and Jews, I pity you.

The Jews killed Christ to inspire terror among the populace. They were terrorists. All of them, obviously.

Hand on, you attempted to justify the atrocities of the IRA by saying "
"You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with just a kind word." Does that also apply to what Al Quaida did on 9/11? Or am I not allowed to make comparisons with other terrorist organisations?

When I said you weren't allowed to form an opinion I was being sarcastic because that's what I had drawn from your responses to me. (See definition in your signature). And considering that quote was made by one of the most infamous mobsters of all time, I'm going to open myself up to flaming and say yes, yes it applies, for the short answer.

"I do support the IRA."
I support the IRA just like I support the American Government, or the United Nations. Do I support every single measure they have ever taken to further their causes? No. Do I support most of the measures they have ever taken? Probably not. But I do support my Government, and I do support the IRA.

Nieninque

09-25-2008, 01:15 PM

I support the IRA just like I support the American Government, or the United Nations. Do I support every single measure they have ever taken to further their causes? No. Do I support most of the measures they have ever taken? Probably not. But I do support my Government, and I do support the IRA.

You live in a fucked up place.

Moist Happenings

09-25-2008, 01:16 PM

Like?
I cant think of a time I have ever professed to know the ins and outs of life in America. I cant think of a time I have ever subscribed to any particular point of view about America, to be honest. Give me an example.

"Furthermore, when the US are mounting this phenomenal war on terror, invading...erm...liberating countries from the grip of murdering people who do the kind of stuff the IRA did, it's pretty fucking hypocritical of you to be singing the praises of cunts like the IRA."

And to clarify, Im not saying he cant have an opinion on Northern Ireland because he is from America, I am saying he has no clue what it was like during the time those dirty bastards were murdering people because as an American (and apparently quite a young one) there is no way he could possibly have the experience to know anything other than the sensationalist bollocks he would hear from whatever comic he is getting his info from. That is most clearly demonstrated by his support for the IRA, Adams and NORAID.

You're right. I have already conceded to the fact that I don't know what it was like because I wasn't there. But in my defense, I asked you several times to give me your input on what it was like if you were there, so I could build a firmer picture of what went on, on top of that which I already have.

And yes, I am relatively young by your standards most likely. I'm 25. Hasn't stopped me from learning about World War II, or the Civil War, or the Socialist Movement in Russia, or any number of other subjects and forming opinions about them.

I'll state again. I created this thread to celebrate continued peace going forward. Not to look back.

Nieninque

09-25-2008, 01:26 PM

"Furthermore, when the US are mounting this phenomenal war on terror, invading...erm...liberating countries from the grip of murdering people who do the kind of stuff the IRA did, it's pretty fucking hypocritical of you to be singing the praises of cunts like the IRA."

That's hardly me professing to know the ins and outs of life in America, moreso pointing out the hypocrisy of Americans lamenting a (terrible) terrorist attack whilst supporting a terrorist organisation.

9/11 was the best thing to happen to the Northern Ireland peace process, because it cut the funding to the IRA. It's a shame it took something like that to open people's eyes to the fact that the IRA are a murdering bunch of scumbags. Bigger shame still that there are still people left behind with your way of thinking. Some people just never learn, I guess.

You're right. I have already conceded to the fact that I don't know what it was like because I wasn't there. But in my defense, I asked you several times to give me your input on what it was like if you were there, so I could build a firmer picture of what went on, on top of that which I already have.

What do you want me to say? I know people who were killed by the IRA? I lived in times when we had to look under the car every time we wanted to use it? Where we could be killed going down the shop? Nothing I can say to you will give you any more idea of what it was like than what you have already read. You know they killed indiscriminately. They meted out punishment beatings. They had organised crime rackets. They were the main dealers of drugs in communities. And people like Gerry Adams were in it up to their neck.

And yes, I am relatively young by your standards most likely. I'm 25. Hasn't stopped me from learning about World War II, or the Civil War, or the Socialist Movement in Russia, or any number of other subjects and forming opinions about them.

Nor should you. Forming opinions about issues and wars is a far cry from supporting terrorist organisations. Each to their own I guess.

Nieninque

09-25-2008, 01:27 PM

I'll state again. I created this thread to celebrate continued peace going forward. Not to look back.

Your sig and your avatar say otherwise.

Moist Happenings

09-25-2008, 01:30 PM

Your sig and your avatar say otherwise.
They support my viewpoints. I've made no secret of it. That doesn't change the fact that this thread was intended to do just as I stated in my unedited first post.

Each to their own I guess.

Know what? Let's just leave it at that, please. I asked once before but I'll ask again.

I'd like to apologize to you for a few of the things I said when emotion got the better of me a few minutes back. I have my viewpoint, and you have yours. They obviously don't mesh well.

Nieninque

09-25-2008, 01:35 PM

I dont mesh well with people who advocate murder as a means to an end.

Nieninque

09-25-2008, 01:41 PM

They support my viewpoints. I've made no secret of it. That doesn't change the fact that this thread was intended to do just as I stated in my unedited first post.

Know what? Let's just leave it at that, please. I asked once before but I'll ask again.

I'd like to apologize to you for a few of the things I said when emotion got the better of me a few minutes back. I have my viewpoint, and you have yours. They obviously don't mesh well.

What is your fascination with the Irish, by the way?

AnticorRifling

09-25-2008, 01:45 PM

They make great soap.

Gelston

09-25-2008, 04:52 PM

They make great soap.

http://reloadandgo.com/IRISH_SPRING_4.5OZ_ALOE_SOAP.jpg

Tea & Strumpets

09-25-2008, 05:37 PM

What is your fascination with the Irish, by the way?

You may think that the Irish are accepted in America, but we are scorned and called "Mics" and other awful racial epithets. I'm surprised some of the racists on these boards haven't already posted leprechaun pictures.

I think a lot of Americans still have links to the countries their parents/grandparents/etc. were from. We're not exactly an old country. I'm pretty sure none of my relatives have been funding the IRA, though. :D

Sean of the Thread

09-25-2008, 05:46 PM

You may think that the Irish are accepted in America, but we are scorned and called "Mics" and other awful racial epithets. I'm surprised some of the racists on these boards haven't already posted leprechaun pictures.

I think a lot of Americans still have links to the countries their parents/grandparents/etc. were from. We're not exactly an old country. I'm pretty sure none of my relatives have been funding the IRA, though. :D

QFT.

The Irish here in America were treated worse than slaves mostly in the early days. Something my grandparents always reminded me of but I didn't go around QQ about what a past generation or another brother did. What's the point?

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b236/Japgross/paddy.jpg

Whimsi

09-25-2008, 05:49 PM

You may think that the Irish are accepted in America, but we are scorned and called "Mics" and other awful racial epithets. I'm surprised some of the racists on these boards haven't already posted leprechaun pictures.

I think you mean "mick". As in Mack, Mick, Mickey, Mickey Finn, etc.

I doubt many hear that slur used much in present day America. Or maybe I just hang out with the wrong (right) people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs

Tea & Strumpets

09-25-2008, 05:51 PM

I think you mean "mick". As in Mack, Mick, Mickey, Mickey Finn, etc.

I doubt many hear that slur used much in present day America. Or maybe I just hang out with the wrong (right) people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs

I was mostly joking with my first paragraph, as we are generally accepted as caucasians now. Not like those filthy Italians.

Gelston

09-25-2008, 06:01 PM

I call irish people Mick all the time.

Whimsi

09-25-2008, 06:03 PM

Good for you?

Moist Happenings

09-25-2008, 06:23 PM

I think you mean "mick". As in Mack, Mick, Mickey, Mickey Finn, etc.

I doubt many hear that slur used much in present day America. Or maybe I just hang out with the wrong (right) people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs

My grandfather's name was changed to Mick at Ellis Island because they couldn't pronounce his real name.

However, in recent years everyone's a lot more tolerant. Oh no, not because we're more tolerant as a species. We just have other people to hate at the moment. It isn't our turn.

Sean of the Thread

09-25-2008, 06:32 PM

Our surname was changed at Ellis Island as well. "Americanized" as they call it.

But I hear Mick all the time rather than any other Irish slur. Not that I give a shit what people say or think... hell my red nose pit bull is named Mick.

TheEschaton

09-25-2008, 07:16 PM

Ni ceart go cur le cheile - There is no strength without unity.

And there is no unity without faith. ;)

Sean of the Thread

09-25-2008, 07:27 PM

And there is no unity without faith. ;)

rofl @ faith. :/

Sorry.

Nieninque

09-26-2008, 03:35 AM

My grandfather's name was changed to Mick at Ellis Island because they couldn't pronounce his real name.

My assumption wasnt too far wrong then.

Tosser.

The Digital One

09-26-2008, 06:19 AM

Nieninque

09-26-2008, 07:43 AM

TheEschaton

09-26-2008, 09:24 AM

Some would say it takes a bigger person to solve a problem peacefully, than violently, Mr. Thugg Life.

Stanley Burrell

09-26-2008, 09:31 AM

Moist Happenings

09-26-2008, 12:08 PM

I just want to say, props to the IRA. That is their country, and if I was irish, i would feel the same way. Victory comes when you are willing to achieve it by whatever means necessary. If I was from Ireland, I would kill every occupying motherfucker I could, call it terrorism or not. They dealt drugs, so what? When you are given no options, what else do you have to finance an armed struggle? If I was them, I wouldn't have stopped till everyone who opposed me was six feet deep. From all the shit I have seen in my life, I know one thing: If you are fighting for something just, even if its not popular, fight till the fucking death, pull no punches, be the wolf when dealings with wolves. I would've killed Britains PM myself if I was them. These are people who had balls, balls bigger than all of motherfucking yours. You can say this or that, give your monday morning quarterbacking. These people fought, killed, and died for what the believe in, and that is that no people should be subjugated by imperialist powers who have no right. I believe in that, you as human being should believe in that. Some things are worth fighting for, some things are worth dying for, some things are worth killing for, and the IRA, Sinn Fein, and all those who died in the struggle for their freedom deserve the utmost respect. Eat shit and die, Nien.

I agree with you in principal (Especially on the part where you state that Nieninque can eat shit and die. I'm done trying to be nice to her), but the violence didn't only limit itself to killing the British to kick out the imperialist powers. Sure, that's what the idea the IRA was founded on, but give any group power and a certain amount of corruption is going to set in. In this case, some parts of the IRA had a lot of it. I won't go so far as Nieninque to say that they killed indiscriminately, but certain bits did choose to alter the plan from "Kill the British enough to make it too expensive for them to stay" to "Kill the British (and anyone who might not have a problem with the British) until we get our way".

The majority I would say have earned my respect, but were I you I'd take a look deeper into the things that went on and ask yourself whether or not you can really bring yourself to respect all of them.

I do support the IRA, and I do support a large number of their actions. I can't toss out their entire cause and what they fought and continue to fight for because of the few that chose to follow a more self centered path. Just like I haven't decided to hate Britain on the whole just because someone like Jack the Ripper decided to kill a bunch of prostitutes to get his kicks. Prostitutes are fun. I like sex.

Edited to add the last paragraph.

Mighty Nikkisaurus

09-26-2008, 12:58 PM

I agree with you in principal (Especially on the part where you state that Nieninque can eat shit and die. I'm done trying to be nice to her), but the violence didn't only limit itself to killing the British to kick out the imperialist powers. Sure, that's what the idea the IRA was founded on, but give any group power and a certain amount of corruption is going to set in. In this case, some parts of the IRA had a lot of it. I won't go so far as Nieninque to say that they killed indiscriminately, but certain bits did choose to alter the plan from "Kill the British enough to make it too expensive for them to stay" to "Kill the British (and anyone who might not have a problem with the British) until we get our way".

The majority I would say have earned my respect, but were I you I'd take a look deeper into the things that went on and ask yourself whether or not you can really bring yourself to respect all of them.

I do support the IRA, and I do support a large number of their actions. I can't toss out their entire cause and what they fought and continue to fight for because of the few that chose to follow a more self centered path. Just like I haven't decided to hate Britain on the whole just because someone like Jack the Ripper decided to kill a bunch of prostitutes to get his kicks. Prostitutes are fun. I like sex.

Edited to add the last paragraph.

The fact that you are agreeing with Seany is not a good thing.

Nieninque

09-26-2008, 01:11 PM

I agree with you in principal (Especially on the part where you state that Nieninque can eat shit and die. I'm done trying to be nice to her),

Why would you want to be nice to me. I come from a Military family. I am all that you despise, remember?

but the violence didn't only limit itself to killing the British to kick out the imperialist powers. Sure, that's what the idea the IRA was founded on, but give any group power and a certain amount of corruption is going to set in. In this case, some parts of the IRA had a lot of it. I won't go so far as Nieninque to say that they killed indiscriminately,

That's because you're an ignorant peasant who read a comic or something about the murdering scum in the IRA and was all like "OH WOWZER I WANNA B LYK THEM!!!1111".

You have no clue what the IRA did because your reading is limited to those sources that agree with your POV (and let's face it, there are only SO many picture books you an read in a day).

The IRA bombed shops, pubs, discos, church halls, hotels, bus depots and shopping centres. They bombed remembrance day parades. They went into pubs and shot the patrons. They killed textile workers on their way home from work. They killed priests as they gave sermons. They killed soldiers, police, politicians and civilians. They killed anyone who got in the way.

I would say that was pretty indiscriminate.

but certain bits did choose to alter the plan from "Kill the British enough to make it too expensive for them to stay" to "Kill the British (and anyone who might not have a problem with the British) until we get our way".

You're a fucking idiot. There was no purist section of the IRA. They were murders, gangsters, criminals and thugs. They took advantage of a situation and turned the people of Northern Ireland against their neighbours. They were the obstacle to peace in Northern Ireland, not the bringers of peace.

The majority I would say have earned my respect, but were I you I'd take a look deeper into the things that went on and ask yourself whether or not you can really bring yourself to respect all of them.

I do support the IRA, and I do support a large number of their actions. I can't toss out their entire cause and what they fought and continue to fight for because of the few that chose to follow a more self centered path.

The fact that you are some stupid little fucker who think's he's clever by "supporting the IRA" makes me laugh. The IRA has been disbanded, unless you are referring to the Real IRA, which is an outlawed terrorist organisation (which of course the IRA was in it's heyday, but they no longer exist) so you cant support them any more than you can support the National Socialist German Workers Party. The fact that you support a large number of their actions just shows you are retarded. The Brits in NI in the 60's were there as peacekeepers to prevent the sectarian violence. But hey, dont let the facts get in the way of your little fantasies of supporting a terrorist organisation to make your grandaddy proud.

Just like I haven't decided to hate Britain on the whole just because someone like Jack the Ripper decided to kill a bunch of prostitutes to get his kicks. Prostitutes are fun. I like sex.

Let's face it, it's the only way you'll be getting any.

Moist Happenings

09-26-2008, 01:36 PM

Why would you want to be nice to me. I come from a Military family. I am all that you despise, remember?

Please show me where I stated that I despise Britain or its military. That is something you fabricated when you decided who I was and what I knew prior to ever starting this argument. Personally I just think they butt their noses in where they shouldn't, but so does America.

That's because you're an ignorant peasant who read a comic or something about the murdering scum in the IRA and was all like "OH WOWZER I WANNA B LYK THEM!!!1111".

You got me. I'm an ignorant peasant.

You have no clue what the IRA did because your reading is limited to those sources that agree with your POV (and let's face it, there are only SO many picture books you an read in a day).

My reading is limited to any and all sources available to me. If you don't remember, I asked several times for another point of view (yours), and was given racist slander in return.

The IRA bombed shops, pubs, discos, church halls, hotels, bus depots and shopping centres. They bombed remembrance day parades. They went into pubs and shot the patrons. They killed textile workers on their way home from work. They killed priests as they gave sermons. They killed soldiers, police, politicians and civilians. They killed anyone who got in the way.

Not disputing this. If you had bothered to read my previous posts instead of immediately looking for something you could twist to fit your own predetermined view of me, you would probably understand that.

You're a fucking idiot. There was no purist section of the IRA. They were murders, gangsters, criminals and thugs. They took advantage of a situation and turned the people of Northern Ireland against their neighbours. They were the obstacle to peace in Northern Ireland, not the bringers of peace.

The obstacle to peace in Ireland was Britain invading it. They made their bed when they decided that they were an Empire, and better than everyone else. The fact that the IRA exists just goes to prove that Britain has to lie in it now.

The fact that you are some stupid little fucker who think's he's clever by "supporting the IRA" makes me laugh. The IRA has been disbanded, unless you are referring to the Real IRA, which is an outlawed terrorist organisation (which of course the IRA was in it's heyday, but they no longer exist) so you cant support them any more than you can support the National Socialist German Workers Party. The fact that you support a large number of their actions just shows you are retarded. The Brits in NI in the 60's were there as peacekeepers to prevent the sectarian violence. But hey, dont let the facts get in the way of your little fantasies of supporting a terrorist organisation to make your grandaddy proud.

Yes. The IRA has disbanded. I highly doubt however that the fact that it isn't any longer an organization recognized by the world changes the views of its former members. It is not beyond reasoning that I would support a viewpoint when the organization that also shared it stops having a name.

Let's face it, it's the only way you'll be getting any.
Again, you've got me here. I'm a 500 pound balding virgin living in my mother's basement. I can't see the light of day because I can't afford the tractor that I would have to be carried out of here on. In my defense though, my guy in the Sims totally made out with this smoking hot chick the other day, so I've got that going for me.

Stanley Burrell

09-26-2008, 01:44 PM

The fact that you are agreeing with Seany is not a good thing.

rofl!

Neff just got back, still though: Yeeeeeaaaaah.... :weird:

Tisket

09-26-2008, 01:50 PM

You got me. I'm an ignorant peasant.

I wouldn't go that far but you do sound like a pampered American making sympathetic clucking noises from the comfort of his well-upholstered chair.

Even to someone who has never really followed the "troubles" in Ireland your support sounds shallow and simplistic. But I understand, I can see where history via Hollywood could lead you to believe there is some rebel chic and glamour in IRA sympathizing.

Nieninque

09-26-2008, 01:53 PM

Please show me where I stated that I despise Britain or its military. That is something you fabricated when you decided who I was and what I knew prior to ever starting this argument. Personally I just think they butt their noses in where they shouldn't, but so does America.

You have been singing about how it was great that those murdering cunts targetted British military installations and personnel. It stands to reason that you have a stick up your arse about the British military or you have been talking shit all this time.

You got me. I'm an ignorant peasant.

Something we finally agree on.

My reading is limited to any and all sources available to me. If you don't remember, I asked several times for another point of view (yours), and was given racist slander in return.

If I can give you any reading you havent done on a topic you profess to know so much about, you havent actually read much about it at all.

Which I suspect is actually the case. Did granddaddy tell you some stories of the troubles when you were sat on his knee last weekend? Is that what this is about?

Not disputing this. If you had bothered to read my previous posts instead of immediately looking for something you could twist to fit your own predetermined view of me, you would probably understand that.

Oh, but you did dispute it. "I won't go so far as Nieninque to say that they killed indiscriminately" What the fuck would you call bombing a shopping centre or a church hall? They were legitimate targets? Or were they just there? The IRA didnt give a flying fuck who they killed, as long as they killed someone.

The obstacle to peace in Ireland was Britain invading it. They made their bed when they decided that they were an Empire, and better than everyone else. The fact that the IRA exists just goes to prove that Britain has to lie in it now.

I'm no fan of the British empire and the British invasion of various countries around the world, but the British Empire was abolished in the 1600's. You clearly wouldn't have a clue about that, because Americans dont realise history can go back that far. Trust me when I tell you it did.

The British sent the military into NI in the 1960's to deal with sectarian violence between the catholics and the protestants stirred up by the likes of Gerry fucking Adams and his ilk. They werent there prior to that. They were peacekeepers to stop the fucking Irish killing each other. They soon became the targets. The troubles in Northern Ireland had nothing to do with the British Empire and the Brits weren't there as invaders, rather as peacekeepers at the request of the Irish government, so as always, you are woefully misinformed. Poor lamb.

Kind of ironic that a yank is talking about the Brits invading though.

Yes. The IRA has disbanded. I highly doubt however that the fact that it isn't any longer an organization recognized by the world changes the views of its former members. It is not beyond reasoning that I would support a viewpoint when the organization that also shared it stops having a name.

You havent been talking about sharing a viewpoint. If you had been talking about getting the Brits out of NI, there would be disagreement. I and all the people I know that had any view on the matter all wanted the Brits out of Ireland. The issues facing them for much of the time, however, was much the same as those facing the Brits and the Yanks in Iraq...do we just pull out and leave them to kill each other?

What you have repeatedly said, though, was that you support the IRA. Kinda hard to do so really, them being defunct and all.

Let me know when you move to Belfast. Would love to have a beer with you and sit in a pub while you regale the locals with your tales of how fantastic the IRA are. Will make for an entertaining evening.

Again, you've got me here. I'm a 500 pound balding virgin living in my mother's basement. I can't see the light of day because I can't afford the tractor that I would have to be carried out of here on. In my defense though, my guy in the Sims totally made out with this smoking hot chick the other day, so I've got that going for me.

Whatever you may or may not be, a prick you most certainly are.

Stanley Burrell

09-26-2008, 01:53 PM

On-topic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyp5we2ySDo

Moist Happenings

09-26-2008, 02:15 PM

You have been singing about how it was great that those murdering cunts targetted British military installations and personnel. It stands to reason that you have a stick up your arse about the British military or you have been talking shit all this time.

I have a disagreement with the political policy of the nation, not the British Military itself. I can say the same about America.

If I can give you any reading you havent done on a topic you profess to know so much about, you havent actually read much about it at all.

Which I suspect is actually the case. Did granddaddy tell you some stories of the troubles when you were sat on his knee last weekend? Is that what this is about?

I do profess that I have knowledge beyond the average person sitting at a bar listening to Fields of Athenry and cheering the Irish for killing as Many Brits as possible. As I have stated several times now though, I don't profess to have a wealth of knowledge near anyone who's experienced it first hand. The more people I speak with and gather information from, the more I'll know about the whole situation. That's why I asked for your point of view.

And unfortunately, my grandfather had a stroke many years back and it's very difficult for him to communicate. I never spoke with him about Ireland. A large portion of my knowledge came from Billy Briggs, a great man who died long before his time. He however was not my only source of information.

Oh, but you did dispute it. "I won't go so far as Nieninque to say that they killed indiscriminately" What the fuck would you call bombing a shopping centre or a church hall? They were legitimate targets? Or were they just there? The IRA didnt give a flying fuck who they killed, as long as they killed someone.

What about targetting British Military Installations and Patrols? I suppose there was none of that.

I'm no fan of the British empire and the British invasion of various countries around the world, but the British Empire was abolished in the 1600's. You clearly wouldn't have a clue about that, because Americans dont realise history can go back that far. Trust me when I tell you it did.

The British sent the military into NI in the 1960's to deal with sectarian violence between the catholics and the protestants stirred up by the likes of Gerry fucking Adams and his ilk. They werent there prior to that. They were peacekeepers to stop the fucking Irish killing each other. They soon became the targets. The troubles in Northern Ireland had nothing to do with the British Empire and the Brits weren't there as invaders, rather as peacekeepers at the request of the Irish government, so as always, you are woefully misinformed. Poor lamb.

Kind of ironic that a yank is talking about the Brits invading though.

The Brits moved into Ireland in the 1960's? Oh I'm sorry I thought the conflict went back much further. My mistake. Must be my American lack of historical accuracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Rebellion_of_1798
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Rising
(To give a couple)

You havent been talking about sharing a viewpoint. If you had been talking about getting the Brits out of NI, there would be disagreement. I and all the people I know that had any view on the matter all wanted the Brits out of Ireland. The issues facing them for much of the time, however, was much the same as those facing the Brits and the Yanks in Iraq...do we just pull out and leave them to kill each other?

The issue isn't really "Should we pull out to let them kill each other?". It's "Should we have been there in the first place?".

Whatever you may or may not be, a prick you most certainly are.

Guilty, but so are you.

Nieninque

09-26-2008, 02:24 PM

The Brits moved into Ireland in the 1960's? Oh I'm sorry I thought the conflict went back much further. My mistake. Must be my American lack of historical accuracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Rebellion_of_1798
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Rising
(To give a couple)

LOL...such a deep knowledge of the troubles that you quote wikipedia.

The English (in fact, as opposed to the Brits) invaded Ireland in the 1600s. Cromwell did so just after the civil war. There was a long period of the English and the Brits being in Ireland thereafter, however around 1920, the British sectioned off Ireland into what are now Eire and NI to deal with conflict between loyalists and republicans. Cant say I'm hugely aware of the issues at the time, as I wasnt around. Anyway, NI became an entity around that time and had an Irish government which became part of Great Britain. The British Army re-entered NI in the 60's as a peacekeeping force in a response to help deal with increasing sectarian violence sponsored by organisations such as the IRA. Had you done any homework (I'm sure even that info would be on Wiki) you would be aware of this. Had there not been trouble between the Catholics and the Protestants, the British Army would not have been in NI from the 60's onwards and the IRA would not have had the cause they needed to exist. Kinda funny that they were the reason the troops were there in the first place.

The issue isn't really "Should we pull out to let them kill each other?". It's "Should we have been there in the first place?".

Depends on whether or not you think we should have left the Irish to kill each other in the first place.

Moist Happenings

09-26-2008, 02:25 PM

On-topic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyp5we2ySDo

Haha, awesome song. I forgot the Cranberries even existed. Now I've gotta download their discography.

Nieninque

09-26-2008, 02:32 PM

Haha, awesome song. I forgot the Cranberries even existed. Now I've gotta download their discography.

Dont forget U2, the pogues Sinead O'Connor, Boomtown Rats, Ash, The Coors.

They are all Irish too. That seems to be enough of a reason for you to like someone/something

Moist Happenings

09-26-2008, 02:33 PM

LOL...such a deep knowledge of the troubles that you quote wikipedia.

Oh yes ma'am, thank you for teaching this ignorant slob about history. I didn't even know there was such a word until my mom texted me that they had a thing call the intrawebs now and that it had a thing called wikipedia that taught you stuff.

I posted links from wikipedia because they're the quickest way to convey a point in this case. If I had known it would offend you so I would have spent a few hours drafting an essay on the history of the English/Irish conflict, which I assure you I am completely capable of.

Depends on whether or not you think we should have left the Irish to kill each other in the first place.
I think Ireland shouldn't have been a English Vassal state in the first place. For someone who loves to tout history around so much you seem to be focused completely on the present. If the British hadn't taken Ireland for its own selfish gains then there would have been no need for the military to have been sent in at all because the country would have minded its own fucking business in the first place.

Nieninque

09-26-2008, 02:37 PM

I think Ireland shouldn't have been a English Vassal state in the first place. For someone who loves to tout history around so much you seem to be focused completely on the present. If the British hadn't taken Ireland for its own selfish gains then there would have been no need for the military to have been sent in at all because the country would have minded its own fucking business in the first place.

Pretty sure it was you who was talking about the IRA.

They werent even around for the first 300 or so years after the English invaded Ireland.

But let's face it, if the Brits didnt invade other countries, your Granddaddy wouldnt have had a place to emigrate to.

Fucking retard.

Moist Happenings

09-26-2008, 02:40 PM

I'm no fan of the British empire and the British invasion of various countries around the world, but the British Empire was abolished in the 1600's.

When the British Empire was abolished England still tried to keep its filthy, blood-soaked hands on every piece of land it could. Ireland just happens to be so close to home that it was able to keep a stranglehold on it. That doesn't mean they have a right to it anymore than Germany had a right to England. That's why today if you book a flight, you go to Belfast, Ireland. Not Belfast, England.

Nieninque

09-26-2008, 02:46 PM

Belfast was never in England, whatever the sovereignty of Ireland was at the time. It would always have been Belfast, Ireland. The same as Delhi was always Delhi, India and not Delhi, England and Baghdad is not Baghdad, USA.

And I reiterate my previous point. If there had been no colonialism there would have been nowhere for your granddaddy to run to and for your miserable arse to have been conceived. There have been many wrongs in history, the fact that hose wrongs took place no more justifies the IRA and their actions than the 9/11 attacks on the WTC.

Moist Happenings

09-26-2008, 02:50 PM

Pretty sure it was you who was talking about the IRA.

They werent even around for the first 300 or so years after the English invaded Ireland.

But let's face it, if the Brits didnt invade other countries, your Granddaddy wouldnt have had a place to emigrate to.

Fucking retard.

You're the one that brought up the IRA. I was talking about continued peace and celebration thereof.

And I'm just so thankful for the Brits. Without them invading shit America might be run by its original inhabitants. Maybe it would even be a better place. But as you stated earlier about a different subject, we couldn't possibly know what the outcome would have been. Maybe they wouldn't have given my grandfather a reason to emigrate.

Edited to add:

Also, the Americans weren't around for the first few hundred years after Britain got a stranglehold. That seemed to work out pretty well for them though. The American War for Independence was what prompted the Irish to rebel in 1798.

Keller

09-26-2008, 02:53 PM

QFT.

The Irish here in America were treated worse than slaves mostly in the early days.

:wtf:

Sean of the Thread

09-26-2008, 02:55 PM

:wtf:

If you don't know that then you skipped some classes.

I heard it first hand as opposed to what I read in the history books.

Nieninque

09-26-2008, 02:56 PM

You're the one that brought up the IRA. I was talking about continued peace and celebration thereof.

You sir, are a fucking idiot.
Your first sentence in this thread: "I just looked at the date on my multi-function timekeeping device next to all the little colorful buttons on my start bar, and noticed that tomorrow will mark two years since the disarmament was completed."
Disarmament by who? Twat.

And I'm just so thankful for the Brits. Without them invading shit America might be run by its original inhabitants. Maybe it would even be a better place.

I am truly embarrassed by my country's part in the decimation of native peoples like the original inhabitants of countries such as yours and for replacing good people with fucking idiots like you.

Keller

09-26-2008, 02:58 PM

If you don't know that then you skipped some classes.

I heard it first hand as opposed to what I read in the history books.

Did white people make the Irish work for them and then TAKE money away?

I don't get it.

Were they treated like shit? Yes. Maybe even just as bad. But worse?

Moist Happenings

09-26-2008, 03:02 PM

Did white people make the Irish work for them and then TAKE money away?

I don't get it.

Were they treated like shit? Yes. Maybe even just as bad. But worse?

http://www.rzuser.uni-heidelberg.de/~el6/presentations/Irish_Americans_S2_WS2003/reality_vs.htm

Nieninque

09-26-2008, 03:10 PM

And this thread is a misnomer.
It should be called two years without terrorism.
There hasnt been war in Ireland for a long long time.

Moist Happenings

09-26-2008, 03:11 PM

You sir, are a fucking idiot.
Your first sentence in this thread: "I just looked at the date on my multi-function timekeeping device next to all the little colorful buttons on my start bar, and noticed that tomorrow will mark two years since the disarmament was completed."
Disarmament by who? Twat.

I just felt like sharing my happiness with you all here, and wanted to open the floor to any ideas, positive or negative, regarding the influence that the disarmament has had or will have going forward.

That is the intended purpose of this thread. I was not the one who turned it into a blind flame fest on Americans. I was talking about Peace. God forbid anyone ever says anything involving an organization you don't like. In those cases, I guess the subject doesn't matter.

"Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy is possibly being spread in the United States."
"UNITED STATES R STUPID. WHEN THEY INVADED IRAQ THEY R DUM!"

Nieninque

09-26-2008, 03:13 PM

I'm not flaming Americans.
I'm flaming you.

Moist Happenings

09-26-2008, 03:20 PM

I'm not flaming Americans.
I'm flaming you.

"Flaming is the hostile and insulting interaction between Internet users. Flaming usually occurs in the social context of a discussion board, Internet Relay Chat (IRC) or even through e-mail. An Internet user typically generates a flame response to other posts or users posting on a site, and such a response is usually not constructive, does not clarify a discussion, and does not persuade others."

Sounds about right.

Nieninque

09-26-2008, 03:22 PM

Moist Happenings

09-26-2008, 03:23 PM

Dont forget U2, the pogues Sinead O'Connor, Boomtown Rats, Ash, The Coors.

They are all Irish too. That seems to be enough of a reason for you to like someone/something

Actually I wasn't aware the Cranberries were Irish. As far as the others, U2 bugs the hell out of me, and I haven't really heard any of the rest. Only Irish band that comes to mind that I listen to is Flogging Molly. Please forgive me for liking them. I'm an American. I probably shouldn't.

Nieninque

09-26-2008, 03:28 PM

Moist Happenings

09-26-2008, 03:43 PM

I couldnt really care less who you like to be honest.
The only things I have seen you posting anything about though, is Irish things.

I am aware that you have probably posted more, I havent noticed much about your stuff. Your post in the drunk thread was funny given that you listed only irish drinks, then started raving about an Irish band. How you couldnt have known the Cranberries were irish was beyond me.

And dont get me wrong, I'm not down on Ireland or the Irish. Irish history (the bits of it I know) is interesting and the Irish people were most definitely oppressed. Had you been applauding the disarmament without the plaudits for the IRA and without the quote from that lying murdering cunt in your sig, I would have probably just agreed.

Anyone who agrees with the IRA and what they did though is either an ignoramus or a sociopath.

Well, the fact that I only drink Irish drinks is simply because I really don't enjoy the taste of much else. Trust me. I've had a fair sampling of just about everything out there. I did like the beer I brewed myself once, but it was really just a variation of an Irish Oatmeal Stout. Didn't really feel the need to add it. I can also choke down Miller Light if nothing else is available, but I prefer not to.

As far as my other posts, yeah, I have made a lot of them, over a large span of years (Well, large for a forum). Not all of them have been Irish. Not even most of them. My avatar and my signature have changed now that I'm back because I'm not 20 anymore, and what I thought was cool then seems rather childish now.

And I honestly didn't know about the Cranberries. I heard their songs on the radio when they were popular, and I knew who they were by. That was the extent of my knowledge. If you listen to Dropkick Murphys or Flogging Molly, it's apparent they're Irish just by hearing the lyrics to most of their songs. Cranberries aren't like that.

I apologize for the overall package my initial post came off as to you, but it wasn't my intention to start a Pro-IRA rally. I honestly just wanted to celebrate peace.

As far as the ignoramus/sociopath thing I'm going to have to go with sociopath if I have to choose one. Most of my political, and world governing views go against the grain. If you want to, feel free to look through my old posts. A lot of them are politically minded. In point of fact, I looked through some the other day. There's a distinct period where I was strongly left wing, and I recognize it as the semester I was a political science major. After that it all gets kind of jaded towards most angles.

In conclusion, yes, I like Ireland, and the Irish, and I have a viewpoint that goes against the grain, probably even in Belfast. Maybe it will change once I make the move there; maybe it won't. I respect the fact that you disagree with it, and all I ask is that you respect the fact that I disagree with yours without assuming that I have my head stuck firmly up my ass.

Nieninque

09-26-2008, 03:46 PM

I respect the fact that you disagree with it, and all I ask is that you respect the fact that I disagree with yours.

I respect your right to agree with whatever you wish.
I will never respect a viewpoint that attempts to dress up the IRA as anything other than cowardly, murdering criminals and thugs. I will never respect anyone who holds such a viewpoint.

Nieninque

09-26-2008, 03:48 PM

I have a viewpoint that goes against the grain, probably even in Belfast.

Go around singing the IRA's praises in Belfast you'd be dead in a week.

Moist Happenings

09-26-2008, 03:52 PM

Go around singing the IRA's praises in Belfast you'd be dead in a week.

I'm pretty sure I'd be okay saying something like "Two years since the IRA disarmed. I'm happy there's peace." though, wouldn't I?

Nieninque

09-26-2008, 03:55 PM

Then you'll be doing fine as long as you dont let your stupid mouth get carried away with itself.

Keller

09-26-2008, 03:57 PM

http://www.rzuser.uni-heidelberg.de/~el6/presentations/Irish_Americans_S2_WS2003/reality_vs.htm

Was that supposed to be a source for what I was arguing? I would have never in a million years considered that a reliable source, but if you think it is -- then you've got proof that the Irish were not treated worse than slaves.

Moist Happenings

09-26-2008, 03:58 PM

Was that supposed to be a source for what I was arguing? I would have never in a million years considered that a reliable source, but if you think it is -- then you've got proof that the Irish were not treated worse than slaves.

Oh, no I wasn't disagreeing with you. I was just posting the link to give anyone interested an idea. No, it's not what would be considered a reliable source, but to my knowledge of history from reliable sources, it's fairly accurate.

Keller

09-26-2008, 04:01 PM

Oh, no I wasn't disagreeing with you. I was just posting the link to give anyone interested an idea. No, it's not what would be considered a reliable source, but to my knowledge of history from reliable sources, it's fairly accurate.

ahh, ok.

I admit I know little about Irish imigration (aside from the NYC Draft Riots, which my thesis paper for my history major in undergrad) -- but I know the difference between being free and being not-free.

Nieninque

09-26-2008, 04:01 PM

Moist Happenings

09-26-2008, 04:03 PM

Then you'll be doing fine as long as you dont let your stupid mouth get carried away with itself.

http://www.ark.ac.uk/elections/awb.htm

I'm sure my voting Sinn Fein will be considered the minority vote.

Nieninque

09-26-2008, 04:05 PM

Um...talk to Tabor about how often Americans can vote in Ireland.

Moist Happenings

09-26-2008, 04:06 PM

We dont need reliable sources in this thread. Hyperbole and fairy tales. That's where it's at.

You forgot the other half of the posts that are just racist bigotry.

Moist Happenings

09-26-2008, 04:06 PM

Um...talk to Tabor about how often Americans can vote in Ireland.

My apologies. In supporting Sinn Fein I will undoubtedly be considered a minority. Is that more to your liking?

Nieninque

09-26-2008, 04:09 PM

It would be more accurate than saying voting.
However, we werent talking about Sinn Fein, we were talking about the IRA.
Blurred boundaries, I admit.

Moist Happenings

09-26-2008, 04:16 PM

It would be more accurate than saying voting.
However, we werent talking about Sinn Fein, we were talking about the IRA.
Blurred boundaries, I admit.

You...are...an...American.
You...live...in...America.
You are a wannabe Sinn Fein member.

All I'm asking is that you wouldn't judge the many by the actions of the few. There are a lot of good-hearted people in Sinn Fein

a) I judge people by the actions of the organisations they affiliate to, should that's what they choose to do. I judge members of the IRA according to the actions of the IRA. I judge members of Sinn Fein (as in the "political" wing of the IRA as was) according to the actions of the IRA. I judge members of Al Quaida according to the actions of Al Quaida. If it walks like a duck...

It makes me happy that you agree with the wannabe Sinn Fein boy, it underlines how retarded he is and the things he thinks he agrees with...because let's face it, you can't get more retarded than your good self and you agree with him in his entirety. Fantastic!

For something we're not talking about, there sure has been a lot said about it. You even mentioned that you judge members of Sinn Fein by the actions of the IRA.

Nieninque

09-26-2008, 04:22 PM

For something we're not talking about, there sure has been a lot said about it. You even mentioned that you judge members of Sinn Fein by the actions of the IRA.

Disingenuous.
I said I judge Sinn Fein (as in the "political" wing of the IRA as was) by the actions of the IRA which is fair as can be given the fact that Sinn Fein was part of the IRA.

http://armsandinfluence.typepad.com/photos/arms_and_influence_refere/ira1.gif

Nieninque

09-26-2008, 04:24 PM

Furthermore, Adams was part of Sinn Fein as was.
He was part of the IRA.
It is a disgrace that he has been allowed the freedoms and privileges of democracy, since he spent so long trying to prevent it.

Moist Happenings

09-26-2008, 04:29 PM

Disingenuous.
I said I judge Sinn Fein (as in the "political" wing of the IRA as was) by the actions of the IRA which is fair as can be given the fact that Sinn Fein was part of the IRA.

http://armsandinfluence.typepad.com/photos/arms_and_influence_refere/ira1.gif

So let me get this straight.

Sinn Fein was a part of the IRA, by your own words.

The majority of the place I am going to live has supported Sinn Fein (by vote), and continues to do so. (An organization that was part of the IRA)

So if I put my support in Sinn Fein (Which was part of the organization we are talking about) I will be killed on the streets?

And of course, we aren't talking about Sinn Fein. We're talking about the IRA. (Which you have stated are part of one another).

That about sum it up?

Nieninque

09-26-2008, 04:39 PM

Nieninque

09-26-2008, 04:42 PM

Sinn Fein was a part of the IRA, by your own words.

By theirs actually.

If you google "Sinn Fein" the blurb that accompanies the link to the official Sinn fein website obviously hasnt updated for a while and you get: "Irish republican party seeking to end British rule in Northern Ireland. Led by Gerry Adams. Considered to be the political arm of the IRA."

Moist Happenings

09-26-2008, 04:48 PM

Sinn Fein was the political wing of the IRA (read operations wing).
If you live in West Belfast, you will live in a predominantly Catholic/Sinn Fein area. Sinn Fein remains the Sinn Fein that was once an integral part of the IRA and continues to include murderers such as Gerry Adams. There are other people in Sinn Fein that had no part in the violence of the IRA.
If you put your support in Sinn Fein, you will most likely be a welcome visitor to the West Belfast area of Northern Ireland. If you sit there singing the praises of the IRA and telling people how you support the IRA and what they did for Ireland, I'm sure you will find a sticky end somewhere.
Depending on which part of the recent history in NI, Sinn Fein and the IRA amounted to the same thing.
Figures you have had difficulty keeping up.

Well I suppose when questioned about it I'll just do the same thing I did here, which was state my case and viewpoint rationally. Will I stand in the street and sing "My Little Armalite"? No.

As I've stated before, it was never my intention to get into an argument here. I created a post promoting peace, and by your own admission, you attacked it because my avatar has a slogan widely used in the IRA, I have a Gerry Adams quote in my signature, and I like Irish Whiskey.

I highly doubt that if I say something positive about Gerry Adams, or Sinn Fein in West Belfast, a place that has voted him into office by a wide margin a good number of times, that I will be met with the same kind of blind bigotry that spews forth from your brain.

Nieninque

09-26-2008, 04:51 PM

Moist Happenings

09-26-2008, 05:18 PM

Actually, I didnt attack your first post at all. I made a throw-away comment which, if you hadn't mistakenly stated that all sides had made compromise and that the IRA were freedom fighters, would have been my last post in this thread.

There has also been no bigotry from me in this thread, unless you define bigotry as an intense dislike of stupidity.

Main Entry:
big·ot Listen to the pronunciation of bigot
Pronunciation:
\ˈbi-gət\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
French, hypocrite, bigot
Date:
1660

: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices ; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

Stupid fucking Americans* and their obsession with their Irish roots and the "revolution".

Now this was before we even got started. Predisposed against Americans much? BIGOTRY.

You...are...an...American.
You...live...in...America.
You are a wannabe Sinn Fein member.

Exhibit Two.

You are simply living up to the stereotype of stupid Americans with Irish ancestors who had any misconception that anything that was happening in NI was anything other than terrorism.

Exhibit Three

Most Irish people hate the IRA and the other paramilitary organisations that they spawned. Most Irish people are glad there is peace and hope that it is a lasting peace. The people that are the most rabid about the "revolution" are not actually Irish, they are American.

Exhibit Four

And fuck you and your ignorant positive notes.

Don't really care to hear anything positive that doesn't support your own viewpoint? BIGOTRY.

I can't see why anyone would think that anything that happened post 1969 at the hands of those bastards was anything like a good thing.

Yes. Must be difficult to hear anyone else's opinions with your head stuck so far up your ass.

Why would you want to be nice to me. I come from a Military family. I am all that you despise, remember?

Making assumptions about my opinions that I have given no reason for because of your predisposed commitment in your stance against anything that you might not agree with.

I will never respect a viewpoint that attempts to dress up the IRA as anything other than cowardly, murdering criminals and thugs.

Seems pretty much like you've made up your mind and are unwilling to hear other people's opinions....Do they have a word for that? I'm not sure. I'll have to look it up. Oh wait, I know. BIGOTRY.

Nieninque

09-27-2008, 04:10 AM

Now this was before we even got started. Predisposed against Americans much? BIGOTRY.

Wrong. Note the asterisk. Read the accompanying note. Understand it.

Exhibit Two.

A simple statement that you are living up to a stereotype.

Exhibit Three

You dispute that most Irish people want peace? Or you dispute that the lions share of financial support for the IRA came from NORAID?

Exhibit Four

Don't really care to hear anything positive that doesn't support your own viewpoint? BIGOTRY.

Life must be so simple for you.
Take a statement out of context and paint it in black and white.
Your positive note was shorthand for "I cant win this argument, so lets not talk about it and end on a positive note." No bigotry in sight.

Yes. Must be difficult to hear anyone else's opinions with your head stuck so far up your ass.

My opinions on the IRA are based on years of living under the shadow of the IRA, not on a bit of reading on Wikipedia. I really dont see you even considering changing your mind and yet it is you who is advocating murder. How far would your head be implanted then?

Furthermore, all the IRA have brought to Northern Ireland has been terror, murder, crime and misery. You may struggle to see that, but anyone with a clue can see it as clear as the nose on their face.

Seems pretty much like you've made up your mind and are unwilling to hear other people's opinions....Do they have a word for that? I'm not sure. I'll have to look it up. Oh wait, I know. BIGOTRY.

Right, anyone who holds an opinion and doesnt change that opinion in the face of a differing one that simply says "THEY DO GUD FINGS" is a bigot? I would be a bigot if I said the Irish are stupid, or if I said Catholics are murdering bastards or I said all Americans are idiots because they all support the IRA, but I havent. I hold an organisation accountable for the actions of that organisation. You're the person who supports the terrorist organisation. You're the one with dubious moral standards. You are also the one with a poor understanding of the English language, but then as an American, that's par for the course.

OHNOEZ! BIGUTREE!!!!